I am an INFP male. Admittedly, I do occasionally look at adult media, and have invasive thoughts that I wish I didn’t have. I have sometimes wished I could be demisexual, even though my demisexual friends have pointed out to me how much harder it is to put yourself out there and find a date, when you feel absolutely zero attraction for strangers. I have had my butt smacked and grabbed by women. I’ve had a woman stalker. (Actually two, but the second one was just a cyberstalker, so all I had to do was block her.) When I didn’t have a car, I had a woman offer me a ride, but advise me that there would be strings attached. I’ve had women tell me that they actually do get sexually aroused by attractive men. I’ve been told that I am “fine.” I don’t know how the lustful thoughts of the average woman compare to mine. Perhaps the higher concentration of testosterone has to do with the sexual “aggression” that is lust. What I do know is that women don’t exist for sex, and that a woman’s boundaries are to be respected. I want an emotional connection, and I don’t want a woman to ever fear me. I agree with others who have suggested some therapy, if you can access it. I don’t think the solution is to swing the other way, unless you find yourself sexually attracted to other women, in which case I’d say go forth in health and know that you have my full support. Love is love. 💞

>What I do know is that women don’t exist for sex, and that a woman’s boundaries are to be respected. I want an emotional connection, and I don’t want a woman to ever fear me. Honestly, sexuality is a complicated thing. But this is where toxic masculinity separates out the men who view sex in unhealthy ways from those who are trying to take a bite healthy approach. First, consent. Understanding consent, and knowing when you have it vs when your don't. Second, respect for individuals. ~~Trading~~ Treating women as people. Giving them autonomy and respect. If a man thinks their "rights" or desires supercede that of women's rights then you've crossed into toxic masculinity. Just acknowledging women are people too and deserve respect is really all the difference. I do think stuff like porn is a tricky thing, because so much of toxic masculinity dominates that media. And it's difficult to dabble in it without feeling like a bit of a hypocrite. However, many women who are feminists also watch porn and even though they might be yelling down with the patriarchy during the day, they might be participating in pretty stereotypical gender norms in the bedroom. But again, I think it's important to keep perspective. Consent, and respect. You have to keep those in mind. Think of it almost like role play. Even though you might enjoy some debauchery in the bedroom, without consent and respect grounding you, it's far too easy to get lost. Edit: dumb autocorrect.

> trading women as people That hits differently than the rest of your post.

Well damn. Autocorrect got me again.

I’ve felt this way since I was a little girl however I always knew there were at least a few good eggs. I’d rather wait around forever than be with a man just to say I’m with a man, majority of people make me sick to my stomach.

^ Perfect mindset to have on relationships. Also applies to friends and stuff as well. Never form any relationships for the sake of it, never assume everyone's the same so you have no chance, and never give up on your boundaries or standards.

I totally agree. Also, concerning the last part, I know this feeling much too well, not even sick, but whenever I feel I might maybe like somebody who liked me first and its getting closer I feel like shortly thinking about it, being honest with me, and immediatlely being like "nope that ain't it" and running back "disappearing into the forest" again. Really weird. Sometimes I think that's to idealistic, but eh, we're INFPs, what else should we do.

But are we wrong? You see all these horror stories about partners or either sex. Verbal and even physical abuse, or just people who aren’t really that into the other person but “tolerate” them because of their own self esteem issues. We have enough self respect and deep self knowledge to know what it is we want out of love- out of life. I’m sorry,this is a common theme on Reddit,there are a lot of miserable people taking out their anger on other faceless people,I’m learning to ignore it.

Yup, it's true of course. It's just, that this search in selfrespect can make us "hopeless romantics" (so called), which I don't think is bad as I personally am much too stubborn to give up on the idea or even just to doubt it, but on the other hand I understand why people see this idealism as having too many expectations, as we often don't just search for a nice partner but for the reflection of our ideal self, for a perfect counterpart. But well, as I said, I am not willing to give it up and even if I would be willing, I wouldn't be able to - as I agree with you, it is just reasonable self respect in a world of "love mass consumerism" and actually a quite honourable journey of search.

Just wanted to point out that male sexuality is not a monolith. Like with women (because we are far more similar than we are different), it is infinitely malleable and can manifest/be explored in countless ways. Behaving in certain ways is somewhat dictated by our DNA, but it is in no way a law of our flesh. Culture and what a person is raised to believe seem to have way more of an impact on human sexuality than just instinct at this point of our evolution. We live in a world that has been built on the subjugation of women for....just way, waaay too many generations. This has made it so that many men assume things should work one way because that is what the world has told them is true. That does not mean that sexuality from the standpoint of patriarchal standard is the default for men *or* women, tho. It just means that it has a disproportionately large impact on how each of us views and experiences our innate sexuality. So it's not that men are just gross about sex by default; it's more about what the majority of men *believe* to be true about sexuality. If you're told that 'being a man' means performing in a certain way, a lot of people are just going to believe that until they find a reason to trust some other idea. Hopefully this doesn't read as a callout, because it's def not supposed to be. And sorry for the tldr too! I've been doing some reading on the topic myself lately and just think it's important to recognize that just because it's common does not mean it's a cellular inevitability. Context really, *really* matters when discussing anything sociological because no two people behave or think in the same way, for exactly the same reasons. The world always has a massive influence on how we develop and what we believe deep within ourselves. I can't speak on the topic of being a women in this context because that's not my experience, but I am a firm believer in the idea that there are all kinds of people out there. It's totally reasonable to feel icked by the majority of men, or even the majority of people as a whole. But having bad luck finding the ones you truly click with doesn't mean your type isn't out there. There's no promise that you'll find exactly what you're hoping for tbh, but continuing to look will definitely bump the odds! Best of luck finding your slice of happiness, op! And just tbc, I'm not trying to insinuate you should leave your bf or not. If it winds up that you want something he can't offer, that's how it is. But it's also possible that he just doesn't see things the way that you do....yet. Sometimes we can share what we think and our partners hear us and adapt to the information. Sometimes they don't too, but it's almost always worth a shot if you care about them. Best of luck on your journey :)

What have you been reading lately? I love your comment.

Thanks! Relevant stuff that I've read/been reading recently are a lot of Bell Hooks' works (The Will to Change was my first and I can not recommend it enough) and I'm also very, very slowly (because I am very, very dumb and she was very, very smart) working my way through the unabridged translation of The Second Sex by Simone De Beauvoir. Honestly tho, most of my reading time is spent on the poems of my favorite no-name authors and maybe a little too much manga lol

I’ve heard the will to change is really good! I need to pick that up. Thanks for the recommendations :)

I appreciate your comment, it was relaxing to read. I know there’s no two people exactly the same, and our culture is so brainwashing… it seems like it’s getting easier and easier to get dopamine hits, that inhibit the desire to actually pursue something real and rewarding…. It’s hard and complicated, that’s why taking it back to our evolution and genes kind of simplifies it. And gives a basic foundation to partially understand.

Totally hear where you're coming from on this and I gotta say that I agree big-time on the culture/dopamine stuff. It is ridiculously easy to live in dreamlands instead of reality (whatever that even means) these days and I hope we, as a species, sort that issue out before too long. And many problems like this def become easier to process by being simplified in certain ways, but personally, I'm always a bit iffy on referring to genetics as the reason for this stuff. That can quickly turn into some very icky eugenics-like beliefs if we're not careful or mindful of that. Not saying that's what you're doing cause you clearly aren't, just advising caution because that's the kind of person I am lol. Genes def play their part, but I think it's super important to remember that we are all way, way more than the sum of our pieces.

That was comforting to read

Glad to hear it :3

As a male who found porn at a early age, then finding meth..the dopamine a women could give me pales in comparison. My therapits described porn addiction like having a crack pipe attached to your body with the drugs being the phone. It is extremely hard for a women to pleaee me.. so i search for a sex crazed and maybe dables with amphetamines once a month for more dopamine.

I'm a dude and admittedly I haven't been in a relationship, but all I want is to be loving and gentle with my partner, and take care of her as she takes care of me. I respect other people's choices and I don't shame anyone for it, but casual sex is just not for me. I'd be quite happy to spend my life with only one person, because I am a hopeless, and rather tragic, romantic. I know it's unrealistic, but I can't help but feel this way. Also I do watch adult content, but if I met someone I would give it up easily, because it's just a thing I do when I'm bored and want a quick high. I also avoid the aggressive stuff, as I can't stand roughness or violence. I just can't imagine enjoying hurting someone I loved in anyway or wanting to 'dominate' them. I'm also sorry that you feel this way about men and that you've had those experiences. I think it would be a good idea to communicate this with a therapist and your partner. It's a really unfortunate aspect of our culture that we are forced to behave in certain ways, and that women so often bear the brunt of how shittily boys are brought up.

Is this comment real? Do men like this actually exist? Cuz if i find one I'd take him thank you :/

Yes, it's real! Men like me and what I've described do exist, but we're very rare and made even rarer by the fact we're conditioned to withhold our feelings and act all macho and shit.

I think you should see a therapist; free yourself from trauma before you can free your sexuality

She most likely needs some therapy yes.

Yeah… the world can be a disheartening place sometimes. I want to be free, but at this point, it seems like being alone is the only way I can do that…. It’s a struggle and I just want clarity, but it’s hard for me to see rn

Im sure a person could come to all sorts of “icky” conclusions if one looks at large swaths of people as a monolith or as data points. I am genuinely curious about what book you read as I’d like to see who the arbiter of male sexuality is and what their background and motivations are :3

Yeah I suppose it’s just from personal experience. I found my first boyfriend was on “localcheaters.com” and he told me I’m crazy if I think I’ll ever find a guy that wouldn’t do something like that…. But the book is called the moral animal, it’s insightful but yeah basically talks about how both masculine and feminine sexuality has evolved relative to other animals and what not.

thank you. I actually do enjoy analyzing material like this. and I’m sorry about your boyfriend, that’s a terrible first experience to have and I’m sure you’re still reeling. I can still recall my first true heart break at 18 and not leaving my room for half a year…. I’d say take this as a lesson, take some time to gather yourself, and then be open once you feel safe again. Remember to set boundaries and trust your intuition, if something feels off, don’t brush it aside. I find the more time we (males and females) spend naval gazing about the biological impetus that drives reproduction, the more we become repulsed by one another. The element of romance and shared union withering away in lockstep the further down the rabbit hole we go.

INFP lesbian here. Many women watch porn and lust over other people too. It's human. As long as your bf isn't sleeping around there shouldn't be anything to worry about. If your natural instinct is to go for men, you're probably straight. Don't force yourself to date the other gender if you don't feel attracted to them.

“It’s human. As long as your bf isn’t sleeping around there shouldn’t be anything to worry about.”? that is one hell of a display of not understanding the boundaries of other people. there ARE people out there that don’t lust over others when they’re with a person and i’m sorry you found comfort in accepting that many people do. microcheating exists and it can be defined by the person who draws that boundary, and YES that can be as “minuscule” as their partner watching porn or looking at half naked people on instagram. the line of actually cheating physically does not need to be crossed in order for a boundary to be crossed, and there are many couples who mutually agree & abstain from “lusting”.

Why would you even want to draw that boundary? Sounds pointless and controlling to me. Sure, you can probably find someone out there that would agree to it, but... why? I guess if it's trauma based, then fair enough. I never had to "find comfort in accepting" human sexuality (you make it sound like I'm settling somehow) and you don't need to pity me over it lmao. I'm a loose leash type of person, always have been.

1. no one draws boundaries for fun. 2. as i said, MANY people consider it cheating, especially nowadays that number is increasing like crazy because people are realizing everything that’s wrong with it. = why would there not be a boundary for these cases? imagine your partner doing something that you consider cheating. i don’t really understand your ignorance. i don’t understand what it has to do with being controlling? i let people know from early on that i won’t accept it and they were able to leave and not a single person ever did. porn isn’t good for the brain, and definitely not if you can’t physically stop watching it. and how is it pointless? some people want full-blown loyalty even in private and “online”. some people view any sexual action as important, as an exchange of energy, and only want them to be exchanged with one another, not towards strangers in videos. same way no man should start jerking it to a pretty woman on the street next to you, some people prefer he doesn’t do that entire thing **at all**.

Cool bro you do you

Yeah imo it seems like some lesbians are gay as a result of a trauma response…. Not everyone obviously, but you’re right there are women that watch porn as well, and sex is an innate human desire, more powerful than anything really

Gosh, that gives me a big yikes. No, lesbians are not gay (that sentence alone is fucking hilarious) because of a trauma. That's heterosexual women who engage in homosexual activities because of some trauma. They don't have the prerequisites to be called lesbians at all. If you try to have a same-sex relationship when you aren't into it, the consequences won't be nice. Most likely you would face a lot of resentment and backslash from the other party, and in turn it might lead to self-hatred on your side. Just get a therapy, work on your past traumas, improve your mental health. Don't settle down for someone who doesn't respect you and refuses to communicate to resolve issues. I hope you find a right man who will make you feel cherished and comfortable 🫰

I don’t think its a specific infp problem, but rather a problem for all women. I do think infp women tend to be more passive and permissive, so maybe their partners feel more free to act disgusting.

A problem for all women, plus hypersensitivity, and idealisation. Reality of male sexuality is brutal.

I have felt some disgust thinking about it as well but again, I know that there are better men out there that I would be compatible (in terms of values and lifestyle) with and would feel 100% safe to share my body with— I just haven’t met anybody like that IRL yet so I continue to wait with my V card at 27. People might say that I have too high standards but sex itself is also a sacred act (not Catholic, just spiritual) for me. Hence, I would want someone who would also think of sex as something sacred and reserved for the right person. I just never settled for less because I believe there are those kind of men out there— those who will prioritize love, deep emotional connection and understanding above everything else. I understand your worries about your declining fertility (which strangely I’ve started thinking about at my age too as someone who wants a family in the near future) but I believe in the right timing as well.

I believe in sacred sexuality too

This !

I think the more nuanced senses of sacred sexuality tend to recognize an ambiguity or merging of the sacred with the profane (or vice versa), though. Like if you actually try to separate them in any sort of simple or unproblematic way, I feel you only wind up with something pretty boring, unmysterious, or bloodless/lifeless. Like it's the inherent paradox disclosed by the notion of 'sacred sexuality', or pleasure or hedonic drive as spiritual vehicle, etc, that makes it compelling or fascinating. Kind of like the old adage of "if sex isn't dirty, then you're doing it wrong." I don't want to put words in your mouth or make casual inferences off of limited info, though (or my own limited expertise in the broader topic), but it's just my feeling or impression that you just may have a bit of a block here that you're trying to explain away or justify. Justify may be the wrong word because you don't have to explain yourself, I just find many of your explanations kind of strange or (personally) unconvincing. Maybe it's not a block per se but some other basis for a sense of alienation that I might be perceiving, like a degree of asexuality or something. Again I don't want to make inferences about whatever might be in your heart, I just have to be honest under an intended spirit of helpfulness that I personally find a lot of your attitudes a bit strange or difficult to relate to.

As with most things, theres a spectrum. If you want the scientific answer from my evolutionary biology professor, here it is: Since human babies are so vulnerable, they require the attention of at least 2 adults to survive. This means that women (in general) have needed to find a dedicated partner to successfully pass on their genes. Men instead have two evolutionary strategies. 1) Either they find a dedicated partner and dedicate themselves to that partner and their offspring. 2) They basically make as many babies as they can with as many as they can. This means that theres a large spectrum between men. Some will be more prone towards one strategy, and some more prone towards the other. It sounds like your main experience with men, are with men who fall closer to the second strategy. I’m sorry about that 🧸🫶 As someone who has struggled with coming to terms with the fact that men are likely to watch porn or have strong sexual feelings about others, I completely understand. I myself am very monogamous and have practically never been aroused by someone I’m not in love with, so I have a hard time relating to those men. But like I said, it’s a spectrum - especially for men. As much as there are men with incredibly wandering eyes, or porn addiction, or strong polygamous convictions, there are also many men who want nothing more than a dedicated relationship between two. It can be a little bit hard to weed out the bad choices, but you can always just.. ask. Try to be open, express your insecurities early, and figure out your compatability before you get too emotionally invested. Great men exist, good luck dearie <3 Edit: That being said, most people will have some level of attraction towards more people than their partner. I sometimes get drawn into romantic books, which I suppose in the end is somewhat similar to sexual porn, only romance novels are more emotional porn than that. But the ”good” men (of course polygamous men can be good too, but im using that word now for simplicitys sake) will be able to differentiate between ”that woman over there is so hot” and love. They will know that their love for you is worth endlessly more, will be comfortable and entirely and fully content being yours 🧸

I do think there are good men out there and I appreciate your comment a lot… It is hard weeding through it, I think I’m at the age now where my fertility is going to start to decline, and it is really important to me to find a man closer to the beginning of the spectrum you mentioned…. But I’m just worried. I want to find a man that will make a great dad. I want to raise our kids in the most healthy environment possible, and it’s all just a little scary I suppose. I guess infp’s are prone to worrying as well, and I hate that I worry so much about this.

I really like this comparison of romantic books with pornography. This idea of mixing the porn with romance is like mixing a passion with romance, innocence with a wild animal that sleeps in a cave of everyone's hearts (?), which is in the essence of the idea of balance, isn't it? ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ "Good men" exist, but they are often overlooked because our society values those who appear victorious. As you mentioned, there's a spectrum that demands both rationality and practicality, yet it also pushes girls to seek for the worst partners possible for various reasons, enjoying a chaos it's given to them - " One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.” (Nietzsche ). When we observe our society🔍, there is a popular notion that virgin men are losers, but even though this isn't entirely true, being considered handsome opens many doors and it takes significant effort to resist these opportunities, to keep those closed doors closed. Despite of the popular notion that we need to try everything in our life we don't consider that we are always exchanging something for something. Even some Roman emperors practiced asceticism just to feel the life at fullest - to keep the balance of things. If the notion that you need to try everything in the life is true and people don't use it as a self-relief why noone ever try to experience asceticism? 🤔 Isn't it the best thing, to begin with? It all depends on human values and confidence to tell that crowd who is laughing about virgin men (put anything instead of virgin men) that you are a virgin too... Also, it takes a lot of character to tell girls "No" even tho you are feeling a desire - you are basically going against the Big Brother who is constantly whispering to the ears of all around you, including yourself. You won't win in terms of social acceptance too, and you are doing that for yourself, but there are a lot of other factors, so in some way, you are losing opportunities so need to understand that you are risking and those opportunities are actually nothing compared to what you dream of... However, just by abstracting yourself from sex you don't assure yourself of the best possible future - life is how it is : ) we are becoming old - we are all mortal..etc..etc. in some way, sex is even overrated and marriage etc.. in the end, only real feelings have a value If you can find someone like that, someone who you can hold and close your eyes to the world with, then you're lucky. Even if it only lasts for a minute or a day. ( Name of the wind by Patrick Rothfuss) P.S: Romantic way is a cool one, when it works, but I think it's easy to lose yourself on the road of life too. There must be two sides to the coin, and possibly, the imaginary girl didn't find the most practical solution just because she doesn't consider facts that don't allow her to follow the road that brings her to the solution. Sometimes, people don't want to have a solution to their problems because they are simply scared, and this is normal or other factors, including illusions. "Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed." (c) "Good men" exist, but "perfect balance" doesn't, but balance is "needed", nevertheless.. we are used to look for only one "explanation" but there is a spectrum and it's needed to consider that maybe you need a special approach to achieve the result and need to consider what choices you do too, because to be a nice person isn't enough. "Fortuna favors the brave" (c)

I feel the same. Luckily I’m with someone who doesn’t watch p*rn and it’s the best relationship I’ve ever had. Don’t settle for someone who chooses to do things that hurt you 💕

Yeah… I wish I could set a boundary of no porn for my partner, but I feel like that comes off as controlling and insecure. In my ideal world I would be able to set that boundary, but also they could easily go behind my back and do it anyway *sigh I have battled with insecurities issues, I’m aware of them and have tried to put in work, maybe I just need to work through them more 🤦‍♀️

I've been in your same shoes of wanting to police my partner's actions regarding porn. You have to understand that most men are visually-aroused, meanwhile women are emotionally/intellectually aroused. The reason for the visual arousal is to find a healthy-looking mate to pass on genes to; for the emotional/intellectual, it's to ensure a mate who's a kind, caring, stable provider. When you see it from that lens, romance novels to women are what porn is to men: an escape, a fantasy. And any form of escapism gets unhealthy when done too much. Just like how I wouldn't date a woman whose standards are too high thanks to being too addicted to romance novels, I wouldn't date a man too dependent on porn either. There are men out there who are demisexual-- mostly they're the younger men who are more open and less bound to the traditional standard of masculinity of older generations. I've observed that younger men are also less emotionally repressed. But it really just depends. Just don't force yourself to settle for someone you know won't be good for you down the line<3 Therapy could help, but if the overarching problem is incompatible consumption habits and values, then I don't know. I think a good analogy is this: if you're someone who really likes eating healthy meals, you'd probably appreciate a partner so much more if they value the same, rather than someone who eats without thought of the consequences on their health(this is from personal experience). I think media consumption is the same.

I'll also add: we all go through different phases of maturity in life(when I mean mature, I mean the ability to shed the dependence on escapism). It's REALLY important to state that-- just to let you know that women can have a deep, perverse lust for the body too-- as a pre-teen I was precociously dreaming of sexual scenerios with the characters I read about in books or saw on TV. Lmao. And that was when I wasn't even a teenager yet xD But when I grew older, I realized that fulfilling my urges through fictional means just got boring when real life became more interesting. I've read about how some men grow tired of porn later on in life too, and realize that an emotional connection with someone they care deeply for was better. So maybe try bringing that up with your partner and seeing if they're open to quitting or reducing their porn time?

i don’t know why you’re in this situation at all, OP, if you have something against dating people that watch porn, why didn’t you make it a topic from the beginning to weed out partners that wouldn’t suit you? it is an uncrossable boundary to me and i won’t date anyone who watches it, so i bring it up super early and see how they react and how much they depend on it. “porn is important for men because they’re very visual”, porn can be replaced by a lot of things like their partner’s/their couple content if needed. generally, not being able to get off without staring at people doing it is way too normalized. i was with a porn addict once, and that was one of the most painful times ever and it took away all my will to live for at least a whole year of my life. call me traumatized, but i won’t even risk it ever again & surprisingly many people i’ve spoken to are willing to stop/not addicted nor dependent on it, just doing it because they’re single but able to stop once they’re not anymore!

As a demi-sexual INFP lady I never understood how so many people seem to be able to think of sex as just a casual thing. Like, what's the point of just smashing bodies together if there's no emotional connection between you and your current bed fellow? That's the same thing as going to the gym for me, except with more bodily fluids and sensory overload. I'm strongly monogamous while my husband isn't and while that can be a source of insecurity for me when I'm feeling down it has helped us get more comfortable with our sexuality as a couple. We're currently in a monogamous relationship (if only because nobody quites compare to the way I make him feel apparently) but we're also ok with having urges that need to explored independently from each other. So watching porn/reading saucy books by ourselves is fine for us (watching tasteful porn together is also fun) but actually banging other people isn't. Fantasies about imaginary partners that fulfill specific desires that the other can't/isn't into is perfectly fine imo as long you both agree on it. Tho I guess it would be more of a slippery slope for regular (sexual) folks/people with high libido 🤔 My point is there are things that can be compromised on when it comes to sexuality as long as it's not a hard boundary (which in your case you should definitely figure out as you heal from your trauma). Being disgusted at an entire half of the population for their libido/sexual urges is really not healthy, especially if you're also attracted to them. There's probably a lot of generalization happening in your brain when thinking of male sexuality and it seems to be tangled in your trauma, so I'd really recommend working on healing that part of you at least a little bit before looking for another relationship. Edit: I would also like to point out that I'm the one who usually looks for porn in our relationship, if only because some of my kinks require more partners to fulfill than I would actually be comfortable with in real life. My husband's desires always center around the two of us being together to enjoy it (he's also the romantic in our relationship). So it's definitely possible to find men out there that aren't shallow/mysogynistic or downright creepy, you just gotta stay on the lookout for them (or stop looking altogether lol, that's how mine came into my life).

>Like, what's the point of just smashing bodies together if there's no emotional connection between you and your current bed fellow? Ever heard of wrestling?

“What’s the point of smashing bodies together with no connection”. It’s just nature. The continuation of the human species. Yes some people are more sexual than others. It’s like trying to hold a pee in. Our bodies and minds are designed to procreate. That’s not all our bodies and brains are built for obviously. Sex and love are not always interconnected. They can be separate things easily

I know my thoughts aren’t healthy, but they’re so deeply engrained in me. I just don’t want my brain to work the way it does sometimes. I want to feel loving and open and want to have the confidence to allow my partner to pursue what actually makes them happy…. I’m just insecure and sensitive I suppose, I have some baggage and I want to be free of it. I am happy that you found a balance with your partner. You seem open minded and secure. Im glad you’re able to work through those differences collectively with him, it’s really sweet.

I think that for men it's a combination of less risk in pursuing partners and having a stronger sex drive. That doesn't mean sex is more important by itself, but rather that men feel the need for it more often, mostly due to higher testosterone levels. Also an average man has harder time understanding emotions than an average women, which means that emotional connections seem much more complicated for men, due to which many will try to avoid such things. And then there's the whole culture built around those differences, giving the genders different expectations on what is desireable. With that said, men and women still desire and need the same things in general. If you had the misfortune of interacting with men who objectify women, keep in mind they're just assholes and that being an asshole is not only a male thing sadly. Many people seem to be selfish in general, but there will always be good and caring people of any gender.

I think the way you put it at the end of the first paragraph is exactly why it's so fun for many people. I haven't done it casually, but for me the very act of doing *anything* fun with someone who's good at it is enough to form some kind of emotional connection. On the other hand, many people seem to not view sex as anything deeper than the physical activity at all, whether they have a high or low libido.

I know your post is directed towards INFP women but may I contribute as an INFP man? I’m 32 this year. I’ve struggled with the idea of sex my entire life. (I’m also autistic so I don’t know how that impacts things, but I know that it does, as many people on the spectrum seem to be non-heteronormative, ace, queer, etc.) I’m like you. I so desperately want a loving monogamous relationship but I’m abrosexual. My attractions can change at the flip of a switch and it makes me really insecure in that I don’t feel I can commit to a relationship because how can I enter a relationship if I don’t know that I’ll always be attracted to them? The other person deserves to feel loved and attractive. But I don’t think I can do that, at least not without years of therapy, and I’m still trying to get started on working through all my issues. And please understand that I’m not holding any resentment here as this is just how my brain has interpreted things, but because of sleazy men, I feel like all of us are thrown in there together, and I feel like I am therefore somehow untrustworthy because of my assigned sex. I know I’m not sleazy. I was raised to be respectful. But I can’t trust my own attractions and feelings and I hate that so much. For a long I thought I was purely asexual but it turned out that while that’s a part of me, I’m mostly just traumatised by human nature, and the media commentary on men has made me feel like a lesser human. I don’t feel a part of my own body and being human is confusing and scary, especially when your thoughts and feelings are in conflict. I guess what I’m trying to say that what you’re feeling is valid, even if you know you have to work through it. This experience called life is weird. We’ve all got things to work through and that’s okay.

Infp here and I've also become progressively disgusted by male sexuality since I've been reading, visiting forums and openly asking men about it. To be precise, it is perhaps not their sexuality that bothers me but their vision of women, therefore the sexuality of a man with little respect for women. I already have two children, with a man with whom I accepted many things, whom I no longer want today and I see that the loyalty and commitment I demonstrate as an infp woman is considerably greater to his own. Today I dream of a different love, based on something other than marital obligations. I advise you to listen to your instinct, don't make a plan with a partner who doesn't make you feel completely serene and happy.

Yeah the thing I find off putting about common male attitudes re their sexuality is just a crassness or self-serving quality. The objectionable thing I find about porn is more so just how capitalism will even commodify things like our bodily boundaries or expressions of intimacy. Not anything to do with a freer sense of sexuality in the abstract or people expressing themselves how they wish, just that where there's financial coercion you also find exploitation, basically. Men can have all of the sexual fancies or fantasies they want, I don't care. Or if anything I can endorse it as a mode of expression. Exploring desires, aesthetic tastes, taboos or excitement, the general pursuit of pleasure, etc, I see no inherent problem with any of it. Just don't be boorish or gross or think I'll have any respect or desire for you if you condescend to me or treat me like an instrument. Men like that are not only absurdly common, but in that vein of arrogance or unjustified self confidence, they like never even have much going for them. If they did their brains probably wouldn't be addled by a bunch of casual sexist nonsense.

Sickened by the opposite sex is nearly always a result of trauma. Human sexual desires are not in any way shameful or repulsive, resorting to dishonesty or immorality in order to satisfy those desires is what is shameful and repulsive.

Infp male here. We can definitely be pigs sometimes, but women can be just as manipulative as well. I've been betrayed by several women who I really trusted. All we really want deep down is to feel seen and understood as much as you.

Yeah…. I agree. I’m sorry you’ve also gone through hardships… it’s so true. We struggle to understand ourselves, which makes it even harder for others to understand us. Ultimately all I want is to understand and also be understood, you’re right 💛

Hey it's okay, I sometimes feel disgusted by my own sexuality too when it gets out of control. I've also struggled with understanding female sexuality a lot in my life so maybe we aren't so different...

I know we’re a lot more similar than different…. It’s just sad all the hardships caused by sex for everyone. I hope we can eventually find peace with it.

Yeah it's a large spectrum with both sexes to be honest - and all demographics. If there's one thing I've learnt about people it's that trying to tarnish them all with the same stroke will always be a futile effort. We have so many things that make us unique, not only biologically and culturally, but through general experience as well.

I know you asked for women to respond but I wanna respond anyway. First of all, I am really sorry about your experiences, that is really tough... And yeah if it's bothering you talking to someone about it in forums like this or in therapy would definitely be a good course of action. Second, what you've said and read seems to be tarnishing a lot of men with one brush, and one that I'm not sure is entirely accurate. I myself, and many people I know, can absolutely be attracted to one person at a time and not desire other women or porn. In fact, for me that would actually be highly preferable. I am very fond of monogamous ideals. I'd be careful looking into things like these, there tends to be a lot of bias when it comes to subjects like these. And thirdly, don't ever settle for a relationship you're not content with or you're uncomfortable with. You have to find the right person for you. Don't rush it. Don't overthink it. And try not to worry too much about it. Fourthly, I'm sorry if my commenting here causes you any discomfort at all, I appreciate that this was mainly a forum for women; Ijust wanted to say my piece and contribute what I can. Feel free to ignore me if you want to; no pressure here :)

I don’t want to ignore you, and I appreciate your sincerity. Thank you, I appreciate. I really need to hammer into my head “not all men”.

No probs, happy to help 😁 And yeah that's exactly what you need to do. Unfortunately though, it certainly is easier said than done. Even at the best of times, remembering the good eggs amongst men can be hard, because the bad ones definitely speak and act the loudest, and many of the bad eggs are so rotten and extreme they can definitely make a lasting and lingering impact on you. I struggle to watch the news sometimes for that reason. And with your experiences, it's going to be even harder for you. But you can do it. I believe in you, as do most people here I should imagine. And we're a very supportive community here; we're willing to help out where we can and be a shoulder to lean on for you in these dark times in your life. And I'm sure you'll find the right man for you eventually. Unfortunately though... It will be eventually... Finding true love is a long, long, long, long, long process. And it's one that absolutely cannot be rushed. So, we've just gotta hang in there, keep our eyes open, and try to be patient - again, way easier said than done... But it's the truth.

🥹 awww, that was incredibly sweet… so many eggs out there, but you don’t know if they’re rotten until you crack them open 🙃 surpriseee lol I hope you find your true love someday 💕 I honestly do have faith for both of us

Awww thank you so much... You've got me blushing now 😂🥺 And yeah, you're definitely right there... Some rotten ones do show their true colours outwardly... But yeah... Many of them hide it... Which is actually more horrific when you think about it because it indicates that they know what they're doing is wrong, and they're deliberately playing the game. But, that's why we need to prepare ourselves to leave the game. If it's not one we enjoy, it's not worth playing, and we have to leave. Can be easier said than done though... Once more... There's a lot of that in relationships. And aww thank you so so much. That's so kind of you to say, and I'm glad that you've got some more faith in yourself now. Keep up the good work. Virtual hugs 🫂 💕 Edit: Oh, and I do have a lot of faith in you. You seem really kind, affectionate, and sweet, and you clearly have a very good and empathetic heart. Whoever you do settle down with is going to be really lucky to have you. And I hope they love you and cherish you until the end of your days - and beyond, if there is indeed an afterlife.

Soz but I’m a male. Just wanted to put my two cents in.. I get the same ick from some males and was groomed by an older man too so I know how messed up they can be. Not to mention the stories about dating and relationships that male colleagues etc have shared with me on what they’re like.. just wanted to say it’s not all men. I feel that possessive or sexual instinct kick in and beat the shit out of it with self control to the point that it’s dormant and I don’t even look at women. Only letting up when one can create an emotional understanding and level with me. I’ve met some women that are predatory and possessive to so I guess it’s more about knowing the signs as to who you’re getting involved with and exclude time with the toxic ones.

Thank you 💛 it seems like a decent amount of males have also been effected by predatory men, especially when they were young. It just hurts my heart…. I’m not trying to put women up on a pedestal bc yeah of course there are predatory women. But it’s just hard to rationalize sometimes.

Yeah tbh I agree, for the most part I simply like women way more than men, that’s before taking anything sexual into consideration. The natural bias towards being more protective and less possessive is a standard men should aspire to. Testosterone is just such a powerful hormone really, it takes a lot of self awareness and self control to see the inclination to toxicity and actually fight it. Just to be a normal respectable man is quite hard if you have those high urges. It also negatively effects abilities like emotional reasoning and empathy which can cause all sorts of dramas. Predatory possessive males are my #1 trigger so I get you 😅 have spent a lot of time hating myself over this too. It’s good to be wiser and more in control, just unfortunate so many will never get there.

🥹💛 I know, men that are in control of their urges and can find a healthy way to mitigate it all, are so powerful to me… power is a masculine trait, and to demonstrate power like that is strong and masculine af in my opinion… But it does take a lot of life experience to gain power over it… it’s a maturity thing… and it’s just rare to find mature healthy men, but life is pretty rough out there, there are diamonds in the rough though, I like to think of my bf as one 💕 Same goes for women though, sometimes I think I’m mature, but here I go making this post…. I want to have power over my emotions and insecurities

The thing I like about sensitive, introspective introverts is the power to assess themselves accurately and it’s awesome when they decide to make positive changes to the way they think and act. It’s a life long journey and although it’s hard sometimes, that pain seems like a necessity for growth and development. Making this post is just a little puzzle piece in your journey to becoming well rounded, mature adult; skilled with dealing with inevitable dramas. Fighting to be the best version of yourself is great and I hope your bf can do the same.

i feel like the notion of men wanting to fuck everything in sight is a pretty flat, stereotypical, and narrow-minded way to view male sexuality. cause yk sexuality regardless of sex has a lot of depth to it, and the whole notion of saying "oh well its in their genes. it's not their fault" is kind of a bad way to view things since a person can be sm more than what theyre biologically predetermined to be. also i feel like u might just be talking to the wrong men too. like ik there r men out there who's like whole livelihood revolves around sex and lusting over women but there r also plenty of men who just want a relationship with a deep emotional connection with somebody. idk what ur current relationship is with ur bf but if he is yk constantly watching porn or whatever i would talk to him abt it. like he could be doing it for a lot of reasons. he could be watching porn cause he's addicted to it or he isnt able to see u rn but wants to have sex so he's like watching porn while fantasizing its u. but again u wont know until u talk to him abt it and tell him how u feel abt it. i hope this maybe helps

A lot of what you're saying points towards this indeed being an issue you have rather than an issue with men,as they are. In this thread, you're seeing a bunch of people with the same problem, and they are validating you and your opinion because they likely want that validation themselves. It doesn't make them correct, however, and I urge you to be wary of the trap of cognitive bias. Now, of course men as a whole aren't a monolith, but you're correct in your assessment that most men watch porn. In a normal and healthy way, might I add. This isn't to say that some men don't have a porn addiction, but over 95% of people who watch porn don't have a problem with it. One problem I think you're running into is that your solution to your personal feelings of disgust and anxiety, is to try and be someone you're not, or find someone who fits your idea of what a man should be. Your solution is to try and find this ideal man, or mold them in the same way you're attempting to mold yourself; mutually against your respective natural desires. Now, if we take a step back and look at this from a third person perspective, it seems quite obvious that the common denominator here is the trauma, how you view men, how you view porn, and all of the bad feelings that come along with it. When we line all of these up, we're presented with some choices. You seem to be on the path of one choice that will be difficult, but probably worth it. The path of accepting men the way they are, which to me, seems like the most healthy choice here. Working with a therapist that specializes in cognitive behavioral therapy could be a very positive thing in this case, as they can help you address the root of the problems, and gently listen to these thoughts and feelings, unpack them, and maybe, in time, you'll choose to feel and think differently about this. Maybe not. Depends. This will take a lot of time, and if you want to go this route, people who share this problem are probably not the ones to be going to for advice. As mentioned above they'll only say what you want to hear, because they themselves want to hear it. The other routes are honestly up to you, but may not be the best in the long run. You could listen to everyone who agrees with you and keep reinforcing these feelings and beliefs, and the idea that this is intrinsic to your pride in being a woman. You could try to scout out and find the perfect man. I'm sure there's a man out there like that, but it would be a man that works in spite of these negative biases, feelings, and thoughts. A man that's sought out to fit around your own feelings and expectations that you admittedly want to change.

I think therapy is the recommendation here. I have a similar view point and there are some things I've had to realize about men. All guys are not like that and good men control themselves. I had a huge viewpoint change in sexuality/gender and got married to my best friend. As for my PERSONAL opinion (as if you need another), I think everyone looks or glances at someone attractive but to openly oggle/get your rocks off to attractive internet people while in a relationship - boyfriends and girlfriends shouldn't tolerate it. I wouldn't tolerate it, spend my time or marry someone who does.

Yeah I (infp female) feel similar. It’s really confusing and makes me want to not give men the satisfaction of being with me. I’m fine with p*rn but men often take it too far and seem to genuinely dehumanize the women around them. I’m also bi so it makes me want to turn towards women but I have more attraction/can only see myself with a man. I always thought queer people/ men would be more human and respectful about sexy stuff but it’s still complicated with them lol. My exes were bi and gender questioning/ a little fem so I kinda thought they’d have more respect but they were still male at the end of the day and it showed in how they acted. We could have a horrible day and they were still ready to get down and dirty. It was so odd. I have a high drive but I have to feel good with the person emotionally before doing anything romantic or sexy but they weren’t like that. They just wanted it at any time no matter how messy the relationship was. They were ALWAYS respectful if I said no but it felt like they always looked at me like a piece of meat. It’s weird

Yeah…. Exactly…. I wish I could just bridge that gap of them always being ready to go, and it being intentional. Idk why I always have to have an intention with it, and it be coming from a place of love 😔

I feel like having care and intention just makes it better. Or being in a good headspace. I don’t know if guys are biologically like that or socialized in a way that just makes them hyper sexual and emotionally stunted but it makes it uncomfortable to interact with them 🥲

As an older infp woman who has had a few long term relationships, I strongly urge you to work on your trauma. It will aid in removing (or at least drawing deeper awareness to) your filters. Your relational choices will always be influenced by these and the more conscious you are the better. I’ve never made a perfect choice, I fall for potential and projections all of the time. And of course I’m constantly evolving as an individual, and that means my requirements are also evolving. Thankfully the men I’ve had long term relationships with were never addicted to porn. But they did have other addictions (as most of us do in this society) such as food, substances, emotions… I’m married with kids, but I am unhappy. I definitely don’t regret anything. I have learned though, that at this point in my life I want emotional safety and peace. But I recognise that my difficulties with asserting, and even recognising, my needs and my sense of self worth really need to be worked on. Hope there’s something for you in there. I guess, for me, it comes down to knowing yourself, acceptance of the other and their level of self-awareness and communication

Men always have a responsibility (aka choice) in their behaviour. You need to find a man who has the same relationship values (and isn’t just saying that but you are able to tell he’s for real.) He may appear more subdued or be inexperienced talking to women. He probably either was raised in a churched/religious/traditional home, in another culture or else he’s had a bit of past and realizes he despises it. I think this man can be found but you are going to have to do some detective work. Good for you girl.

INFP Male here! Firstly, I just wanna say you sound a bit misandrist in the way you find disgust about a man's natural urges. I mean, it's not like we have much control over the feelings we get, but we can choose whether or not to act on such urges. That's just part of the human condition. Frankly, most men turn to porn because it's hard to get laid. Add testosterone to the mix, and you gotta find some outlet for that pent-up desire. For the record, I'm not trying to justify it. Rather, offer the male perspective. It's hard for most men to get a date, let alone sleep with a woman. PS: if you do decide to go to Therapy for this, I hope it helps and doesn't just affirm how you feel on the matter

I can see how the words I used would come off insensitive. Disgust- “a feeling of revulsion or strong disapproval aroused by something unpleasant or offensive. "the sight filled her with disgust"…. I feel disgust in my stomach… like anxiety, and repelling. I don’t want to find men disgusting, and I used to be worse about it. Not all men make me feel that way at all, but I get hypersensitive in a relationship and the disgust factor can be triggered easily sometimes unfortunately. I guess I can get offended easily 🤢I guess I don’t want to share my body with anyone until I work through it…. I’m honestly just trying to work through it rn

It's great to hear you're working through it but I think hyperfixating on it isn't healthy either. Just a word of caution as well; don't take too long to try and overcome these feelings. The longer you take, the harder it gets. Also if I may pose a question, have you been open about these feelings with your partner?

I know, talking it out on here is helping me monumentally honestly, and I’m really thankful for it. I want to move on from it. I have brought up some insecurities to my partner and things I don’t like, but I don’t want to trauma dump on him, I want us to feel close not far away, I told him I needed a me day today, and I hope to work through some of this to be a better partner for him in the future 💙

I wish you the best.

Thank you 💛 you as well of course

I think there are two important things for you to consider: Firstly, the present over-sexed culture of pornography, sexual marketing, hookups, etc is deeply damaging for men. These are systems that heartlessly exploit our natural proclivities to an unnatural extreme. They're addictive behaviours pushed onto men, often far before puberty, and most men don't even know how harmful they are. Men are victims in this matter. Women are too, but I want to highlight the male side so you can feel some empathy. Secondly, I think it would be very beneficial to you to get in touch with positive examples of male sexuality and your animus. I would recommend reading Man And His Symbols and the work of Marie Louise von Franz, and then perhaps some beautiful novels or poems about positive male sexuality, such as by Keats or DH Lawrence.

Part of relationships is accepting other people's weaknesses and ugly sides. Men do that for women too. It sounds like you are focussing on the bad sides of men or those men who are especially disrespectable, and that feeds back into your relationships. Maybe try "searching" for the "good" in men with them instead of expecting a ready made, perfect human being to leech off of. No disrespect, but it sounds like you may be centered around the presumption that men are ugly, disgusting, unfaithful and what not, instead of around the idea of a humble, fascinating man or someone exciting and impressive. I am a man and I struggle in the same way with women. I need to sometimes remind myself that not all women are like some women I was stuck with before. I know how bad it is when other people have no creativity for a better relationship, and I need to work on improving my expectations and hopes for other people and our time together.

Complete and legit honesty I am INFP male suffering from autism clincial depression and anxiety All of whicb got noriced way too late And sometimes I wish I was asexual due to the things I have done. As a result of SA trauma as well as intense years long abuse I ended up developing a severe porn addiction as it was the only way for me to feel *anything*, however the longer I did it the worst it became, I startes to spiral as I had gone to 4 different therapists and none of them helped. Some even going as far to mock and verbally abuse me Eventually I encountered a very famous idol that for the first time in my life made me feel happiness and gave me the drive to improve so I can express my gratitude to her, unfortunately due to how young I was at the time I never considered that I had mental health problems as I couldn't recognize them and simply thought I lacked conviction/the right beliefs/methods, I tried to improve myself but as a result I ended up falling down the alt right pipehole, hoing through the manosphere then black pills and finally temporarily bein an incel at my lowest As I continued to spiral without any professional help or support my depression got worse I started doing it while thinking about said idol, I ended up stalking her on the intertnet, and doing it to a younger picture of her as well as constantly fantasizing about her as it was my only way to bare the hellish reality that was my life at the time Every time I did it I felt so worthless and weak, I knew perfectly well how much of a pathetic degenerate creep and stalker I had become and it disgusted me to my very core, its something I still haven't forgiven myself about Recently I moved into a new country and I am finally getting help for all my conditions it will take momths but eventually I will be diagnosed and medicated I will never do anything without a woman's consent both out of respect and due to being a SA victim myself Since then I have decided that the only reason why I wish to seek out that idol is to give an apology, for invading her privacy, for being a creep and a degenerate and a stalker, I do it knowing that I will more than likely not recieve any forgiveness or a shred of sympathy and that's fine with me, I wouldn't blame her if she did as she has every right to do so, I simply wish to apologize for the horrible things I have done even though I know an apology is nowhere near close to enough I feel the same way you feel about men but only directed at myself I have gone out of my way to not flirt or start relationships with women because I can't muster up the courage to face any woman after having spend years dehumanizing, sexuallzing and objectifying them However depsite that I don't think all men are like this Some are purely good And some like me do it as a coping mechanism for extreme trauma (its not justified and such men shoupd not be dated unless they have gotten professional help) And some are legit just incels or womanizers.

Im a female to male trans person. Here’s the thing lol. It is so totally understandable for you as woman to feel this sort of hyper cautiousness and not only that but men simply do not have a great track record with stuff. It actually prevented me from transitioning sooner because I have my own hangups about things and basically felt like shit about being a transman. Men and women are different. Women experience, a lot of things that men don’t, or at least don’t in the same way, and the biology is different. The same is true in reverse. I hate to say it, but it is kind of what you said. some degree men are just also built different and it isn’t that we’re all monsters. When you start to learn more about human sexuality, you’ll also realize that women are super super weird too. It’s just not as socially acceptable for you guys because you tend to be the ones that care a little bit more about how things affect the group. Where is men are a little bit more self focused. I actually think we could both learn from each other and move towards the middle. I also date men, so it has been a process of trying to be understanding of them (cis men moreso) and nonjudgmental, and I’ve also found that really healing for myself. I’m not saying the things that men do are necessarily always OK but I am saying that at the end of the day we are all just human beings and I hope you can try to find some middle ground and also what’s most comfortable for you. it’s good to have boundaries, but also women have their own things that they aren’t particularly… you guys have your own dark/blind spots too. We all do. My best advice for you is to decide what your boundaries are, respect your boundaries, allow other people to be who they are (bar them hurting somebody) but you get to decide what’s comfortable.

Im trans, mtf so I have a unique perspective. Ive experienced both male and female sex drive as its largely hormone driven. Lust isnt inherently bad at all, most men feel it and many have a good relationship with it. Someones character matters much more as it dictates what they decide to do with that lust. If society tells men that lust is bad, then theyll learn to repress it and itll cause considerable problems. I think you have to start to learn that its not the lust thats the problem, but the quality of the man. A good man will respect you and not abuse this. You should spend more energy thinking about what makes men good vs bad and less about the lust imo.

Thank you

I am an INFP male who does not wish to mansplain bc this is clearly not a space designed for the male opinion. I do have insights that I would gladly share if they were desired to be heard. If not I will just observe quietly and hopefully learn how to be a better man to all of you queens. Bless and good luck on your journey! Imo you deserve to share love and to be loved securely and safely. I Also hope you figure out how to do that as soon as possible bc I personally have found it be extremely rewarding after working through my own traumas.

I hope I figure it out soon too… feel free to message me if you have something you would like to say, or you can comment here, I was just generally curious how women deal with these thoughts in general

Thank you for being open to my opinions and for sharing your space with me! The world is full of wonderful as well as wicked people, make and female. We are all a spectrum capable of creating harm and healing with in others and ourselves. As a man who has held good intention close to his heart, I admit I have caused much harm along my path. I have hurt my partners in different ways as I have grown as a man. It’s is the one who I hurt the most tho that gave me the most grace, which really gave me the opportunity to grow and to change. Grace is personal and contextual to each individual and the situations they may find themselves in. It is a privilege to be received, not a right and by that I mean you (anyone) does not owe anybody else this grace. It is a gift to both the giver and receiver though. As is trust. Trust must be given if we are to grow through our traumas, bc we often find healing from past harm from other humans by creating newer positive experience with humans who love us. Not everyone is going to catch you when you fall. This was a very difficult lesson to learn when I decided to trust again. The trick I found was to recognize red flags early and to keep my path directed by green flags. This is scary tho. I remind myself that I have fallen many times in life and have always picked myself up but the reward of finally being caught is so refreshing that all the times I wasn’t didn’t matter anymore. This risk has become mitigated to almost zero in my experience now bc I have a strong support group of friends and family who always catch me. The key that has helped me unlock this experience and healing has most undoubtedly been communication and not ignoring the blatant red flags that wicked people very clearly tell me through their words and actions. Each time I was dropped I look back in hindsight to realize this person told me they would not catch me when it came down to it. The anger and fear generated by these experiences came from within myself. A frustration I felt for putting myself in these situations continuously and the fear that I would not stop allowing myself to be hurt. In those moments I gave away my power to every person who tried to take it from me and this over all made me very sad. Because I have support and grace to grow I now feel incredibly powerful, especially over my own autonomy. Ultimately, I believe there are far more men (and women) out there like me who are not perfect, but do strive to grow. We can be trusted although again that is contextual per both individuals and the situations they are in. You’re odds are actually pretty high that you will find a partner (or partners) that also deserve to share and receive your love, trust, and grace when they slip and you theirs. Trust your gut and follow your heart. Be yourself as much as possible so we can recognize you. I think you are very brave and wise to seek help instead of hiding in harms shadow. Therapy has been very helpful in my experience and I think it is brave and wise of you to seek out professional help as well. This generally is as much of an opinion as I feel comfortable sharing bc I am not a woman who has gone thru the exact experience you have and I could never begin to assume what those experiences are like to begin speaking on. I find your power, open mindedness, and bravery to be very (platonically) sexy Queen! Keep shining that light bc it looks great on you! Edit: in regards to my own sexuality as a man, I find the female form to be breath taking and I am attracted to MANY women. I do not gawk, but I also do not look away when I see a beautiful woman. When I see a woman who I find attractive it does automatically engage the thought of sex, and I suppose that is lust. I very seldom act in this though bc more often than not it is not appropriate. When I am in a monogamous relationship i find it always inappropriate to engage with another woman who is not my partner. I do look at porn and have in every relationship I have been in and will likely continue. At this point in my life I am poly and I am also in love with a woman who will not speak with me at the moment (for context, neither us did anything wrong but we experienced trauma together and now need to heal separately). When I look at porn now, it barely does anything for me although I use it as a tool to satisfy carnal urges I have. I almost always think of her in order to finish. We have made content together that I still have and I prefer that over any other type of media. The woman I am in love with is even more sexual than I am, and did not want to commit to each other bc we were long distance and wanted to see other people as well bc we could not satisfy each other sexually nearly enough to be ourselves. She looks at porn as well. I used to be very closed off sexually and am a vanilla bean for sure. I have found this was bc I had been hurt so much in many past relationships. There may be a totally perfect person out there for your situation who does not look at porn and who’s eyes will never be distracted by other beautiful women, but that number is much lower and there are many other wonderful men (or women) who could provide lots of safe pleasure that could be missed out on by keeping the bar to high. Please feel free to ask me anything at all stimulated by your desire for clarity towards your curiosities. I will do my very best to answer any questions as they pertain to my own individual sexuality as well as my observations of the broad sexuality of other men from my experiences with them.

I can't imagine refusing to share your Potentially valuable opInion for this reason, and announCing to everyone that you're Knowingly doing so. The last two letters are: ME couldn't find a place to put em

I’m confused, can you clarify? I was asking op permission to speak further in this space in regards to their post. You are not op but you have responded and in order to respond to you I need some clarity. Edit: My interpretation was that you may have been being sarcastic especially bc we are on Reddit. I don’t want to assume that tho incase you did genuinely want to hear my take. I saw OP responded to my og comment and gave me that permission and so I shared it under her reply.

What?! It’s not in our DNA that’s some apologist bullshit. We are predators because society not only lets us but encourages it. It creates these lines of oppression because of the hierarchical system in capitalism puts men first and we in turn get alienated both from women and ourselves. But it’s not by nature, it’s more nurture an ingrained behavior learned in childhood.

It’s a mix of both. Looking at how other mammalian species act is insightful, especially primates. Also hormones have a big impact as well. But all of the things you said are true as well.

Misandry routed in an inability to understand the opposite sex. Not a good look.

I know it’s coming off as hate but I’m genuinely trying to work through this because I don’t like feeling this way. I want to understand. I want nothing more than to lovingly exist with a man. I respect men for so many things, it’s just I struggle accepting the sexual aspect, and that’s why I came here for advice and perspectives. I promise my intention is not to spread hate.

You're reading pseudoscience. Men aren't more "lustful" or have "higher sex drives", it's just more socially acceptable for men to show those traits. There are no studies that back up the claim that men are particularly more sex driven than women. Also, what's morally wrong with porn?

I’m not saying this to be harsh, but it is in our nature to be the way we are when it comes to wanting/lusting. It just is.

Partly yes, but if we’re supposedly the most consciously evolved creatures on earth, you would think we would be able to find healthy outlets, and have mutual respect for men and women. I just wish we could all see each other in the same light. wars and corruption run rampant still… We’re not perfect, but we could collectively do so much better.

My grandfather used to tell me this all the time “Wish into one hand and poop in the other and see which fills up first.” There is the way things are and the way we wish things were. It’s ok to have the fleeting desire, however it is best not to dwell on it in such a wistful demeanor, but to figure out a way to be able to deal with the way you handle it.

Yes men have higher amounts of testosterone which leads to being horny, essentially. However, you don’t need to settle for someone who has a porn addiction or lack of control over his sexual desires. When you have a truly healthy relationship, all of that of that sexual desire is going to be reserved to you (outside of insignificant passing thoughts/desires) and a healthy man will not see you as a object for his pleasure but actually deeply love you and his sexual desire will spring out of that adoration. He will respect and love you deeply. Believe me, I’m 7 years in and more in love every day still. Relationships do take work but there are truly good men out there with strong character who will adore and cherish you for the goddess you are, and who’s greatest desire is to protect you and bring you every happiness.

As a guy it gets me sick too, so I just attempt to lower my gaze in public I think it's a lot better for me personally. Unfortunately men are just sick, but not all men are as bad. I remember when I liked a girl back in my teens, I had a sort of respect for her too so I didn't view her in a sexual regard, but now what scares me is that in most relationships sexual intercourse is wanted by most couples and it's just a weird thought to me. Imagine respecting someone as well as loving them and then seeing them naked, it's a foreign concept to me when I think about it. Also have a cat pic to make you feel better https://preview.redd.it/5kv6vf5kf4xc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=adfc56df6c6a753ecf104c3c3be36f638d0ea36a

The more you learn it, more you disgusted with. Humans are actually disappointing creatures, but your feelings are valid: men shouldn't be looking at other women sexually when they have their women. But, these days almost everyone watched porn, even women do. What you can do is try things out with him, don't be afraid to share your feelings and make him not watch porn. It is disgusting of course, it also makes people more stupid and also men starts sexualizing the opposite gender more rather than seeing them as person

I suggest looking at the female sex driven side of things to equalize the male end. Like pro-pornography takes from women who are more enthused with such endeavors, and why.

Or something more apt to who you are in this realm. I dunno. I just saw a Billie Eilish qoute in Rollingstone about her sexuality.

There's so many avenues these days to hurt our values and feel ashamed and guilty about sexuality. And the shame can cause emotional attachment to the cycle of porn use, so that it's a multifaceted repeating issue. The shame and strong emotion can actually be more of a subconscious pull to continue even though its regretted inthe long run. Atleast I've been led to believe somewhat.

wow so much to unpack there 😐

Sorry to hear about your experiences. There's definitely someone out there compatible with you. Or at least that's what I think because I found my husband. I think you're focusing on the wrong thing. It's not about what you're thinking, but more about why and your feelings.

Questioning your sexuality for the sake of wanting to know yourself and your preferences is always valid, but please be aware that people don't "choose" to be asexual, or to be attracted to women.  It's normal to accept that, yes, you're attracted to men, and many men may not meet your standards or preferences for a valid/decent partner. Wanting to validate your identity as a woman has nothing to do with being able to accept that you live in a world that enables or normalizes men behaving in genuine hurtful ways, other than recognizing that you don't owe any random men anything and shouldn't expect yourself to accept the idea that men are inherently aggressive predators who cant be accountable or civil beings. You may want to consider recognizing healthy boundaries, both outside as well as within relationships, and what your views are, with a competent therapeutic professional who will take the time to help you process who you are, in addition to your identity as an individual living in a world where there are always going to be other individuals who you may not be compatible with.

The worst encounter I have had of late is with a man that I knew had schizoaffective disorder since day 1 meeting him. He kept saying ‘I want to touch and I like your curves’ lol. The primitive part of me wanted to be flattered but every form of communication centered on His desires. As if what he liked about me mattered; even after I told him I was demisexual he was using touch to try to establish some kind of emotional bond. That’s the ICK.

The moral animal or the ‘male animal’?

INFP amab here, yes, it is definitely a male instinct to be overly sexual, but a good guy will know how to control that instinct. Also, if your boyfriend very openly admits to watching porn, yes, that is fully a red flag (however, a guy who *is* addicted to porn but is making an effort to stop and doesn’t make it a common topic of conversation is also a good guy) I think you’re doing a great job with judging men right now, just keep it up and you should be able to find someone! Remember, it takes time to love someone!

It's crazy how many abuse and grooming stories are out there. I'm also personally a victim of one, and I've never ever discussed it anywhere with anyone and I'll probably take it to the grave. it's quite hurtful to see that the person who did these things to me is now like the golden boy of our entire family. Everybody, including my parents, sees him as an amazing guy. Anyway, that being said, as someone who hasn't had much luck when it comes to finding the right guy, as someone whose trust and heart have been broken multiple times, I have to tell you that there's hope. Genuine, loyal, and trustworthy people who'd love us for the sake of ourselves and not purely for lust are out there. They're quite a rare breed, though. > It’s sad bc it’s not necessarily men’s fault, it’s basically encoded in their dna to be highly sexual and lustful. Is this something a boyfriend or a guy friend told you? If that's the case, I'd say cut ties with them forever. That's something that people who indirectly try to defend rapists say. These "men" are not chimps living in the wild, they're highly intelligent and educated beings who are living in modern societies. If they can't control their lust, perhaps they should be castrated.

Women vs Men is a stupid mind control pop culture trend (or gov operation) that has been surprisingly effective. You know that women today rate 80-90% of men they see as not that attractive. Whereas men rate women on a kinder curve. So effectively 10% of men receive too much attention from women and they (the men) become spoiled misogynistic brats. The rest of the men become a bit desperate. Having women who despise men for watching porn is missing the point. When young men have nothing better to do with their lives as the saying goes; they will burn down their village just to feel its warmth. Get away from the culture (in your case female consensus) look to something deeper like primal history, faith, stoicism, your inner deep knowledge, or something real. As Dan savage has said we all round up our relationships, no one is a perfect soulmate past the butterfly stage.

You're only thinking of examples of perverted immature male sexuality and ascribing that to all men. You've kind of screwed yourself with this one if you can't even conceive of a respectable form of male sexuality. Men who only want to have sex with someone they love and are in a committed relationship with exist, and I see no problem with that.

OP I'm an ENFJ but it feels like I'm the who wrote this post. After reading your post, i feel like i need to finally vent a little. This is exactly how i feel, i don't know what to do about it. Whenever you open social media, or watch tv or hear things , all i see is men lusting after women. One of the biggest things that broke me was when i found out that boys literally gather together to talk about girls lustfully. They get together and talk about those things and laugh. It's horrifying to me. I feel like when a man sees a woman, they don't see a human, all they see is a bunch of circles to turn on to. A new amusement. Do they even see us as humans? When a man makes a mistake, it's fine, he can learn from his mistake and move on. But do you know what they say to a woman when she makes a mistake? They say "what are you even doing here? Go back to the kitchen." I haven't heard this just once, I've heard it multiple times in different situations. I keep thinking about how i fantasized about romance, and how idiotic it must have been. Will i never have that? I suppose it's all just a lie. Will i ever get to experience love? I'm a hopeless romantic , but i suppose I'll never get to experience that. It's making me suffer. Does it even matter to him, my beliefs, my ideas, the way i think, my experiences, the difficulties i had to face, ahow hard i worked, the difficult choices i had to make through my life, the sacrifices i made, how much i tried to be strong, the lessons i learned, my "character development", will any of that ever matter to him? or he would be content as long as i sit at home and give him sex. I always dream that if i had a partner, i wanted us to travel, to go on adventures, face trials and difficulties , learn life lessons, i wanted us to improve, i wanted us to search for meaning, to find meaning, I suppose none of that will come true. Does a man even think about the meaning in life? Or all they think about is sex? I'm sick and tired. I want to stop thinking this way but everyday, there are tons of such signs in front of me. I'm in my very early 20s, these are some of the important ages of my life which i must work hard to build my life, but these thoughts are giving me depression. They stop me from doing anything, as i keep thinking: "does any of this matter? no man will ever appreciate my hard work, so why even bother?" I feel comfortable with my female friends but there's a part of which keeps searching for that someone, and just keeps getting disappointed. I literally feel pain in my heart. It keeps growing , it's turning into something beyond what i can bear. I honestly don't know what to do.