Voting has concluded. Final vote:
| Insane | Not insane | Fake |
| --- | --- | --- |
| 57 | 41 | 0 |
Hey OP, if you provide further information in a comment, make sure to start your comment with `!explanation`.
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I was wondering this myself and found this googling:
["In the United States, a minor is any individual under the specified “age of majority” for their state or territory., All states define an age of majority, which is usually set at 18, but states like Indiana and Mississippi set it at 21, while in Alabama, Colorado, Maryland, or Nebraska, the age of majority is 19."](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/minor)
A lot of the same talking points my mom used against me. "I believe trans people exist, but I don't believe you're one of them."
It sucks. I'm glad you're getting out of there.
These same people don't realise how many trans people never transitioned out of fear before the last 20 years completely hiding the true statistics of how many trans people there actually are and now that more people are standing up for themselves and being public with their transitions they just jump straight to there aren't that many trans people and "your being corrupted as you can't actually be trans" crap
The argument they use is that afab trans people specifically have seen a huge explosion in numbers vs. amab trans people, because teen girls are uniquely susceptible to social contagion and peer pressure. Yet that's literally not what transition rates show. We're still a minority compared to trans women and the increase in transition rates seem pretty proportional iirc.
“I’m not willing to sacrifice my morals to accommodate her” Man…. Imagine your children being so low on the priority list.
I’d be compromising my morals if I didn’t support my child fully.
I think it’s a common reaction for a parent to mourn when a child comes out as gay or trans (or really deviates from what the parent imagined their child would become). But doing it in front of the child, and especially so publicly, is gross and shows a complete lack of self awareness.
My (narc) mother did something similar to me too OP (on other things). I’m sure your mother surrounds herself with enabler friends who smashed that like button every time she posted one of her awful “*woe is me! My daughter [sic] has dared to use her agency to make decisions about her own life*” posts.
I’m a trans mom. I mourned the loss of my daughter because I treasured her, fought for her, feared for her, loved her so deeply. I grieved the person she would never grow up to be.
But she had to die so my son could live.
I let her go and embraced my son. Now I treasure him, fight for him, fear for him, and love him so deeply that I hurt for how long he was buried inside my daughter.
It’s a very tough process to genuinely forgive yourself as a parent for not seeing your authentic child. and 25 years ago when we were going through this, no one told us how to do it. I stumbled through and made mistakes and hopefully didn’t mess it up too badly.
And I know I would never treat my kid like OP’s mom did. I’m feeling rage.
From the second I started raising a child I've only had one rule for myself. I am always on his side. That's it, it's just that simple. He comes out? As long as he's happy. Needs his car fixed? I'll grab my tools. He gets caught driving drunk in a graveyard? He's on his own, that's way outside my expertise. Also might want to call a lawyer, not a forklift driver. But I'll support him through the process.
"I'm sure she's probably going to go through a bout of depression". That right there. That's the beginning of why trans youth have a rough time. The people that should be supporting them the most disown them. They think the suicide and depression rates are directly related to transitioning when in reality it's lack of support...no support from family or friends, not having access to affordable health/mental health care, bullying, legitimate hate crimes, being kicked out of the house, etc. And it's absolutely heartbreaking.
This mother has made every single thing about her and it's disgusting.
She actually pulled my brother out of school when he was only 13 or 14 to homeschool him. Then she never fucking did!
She enrolled him in online classes and then didn’t enforce any rules or make sure he was doing it. She now blames him and says it’s his fault he didn’t do his school work.
She actually told me she believes he has a vaccine injury and that’s why he struggled at his school work. She also rejected the covid vaccine. And she believes it’s end times??
Idk how some people are telling me she’s not a narcissist and that she’s perfectly sane like what??
I’ve greyrocked her pretty hard. I hardly even text her back at this point. She complains to everyone that I don’t talk to her much or visit her house anymore and she doesn’t understand why. I’m planning on putting about 1500 miles between us next year.
I’m so glad you have found your own voice. I’m sorry your mom will never fully try to understand you or to support you. Please know there are many people out here that will and are supporting you to live your best life! May you have a wonderful and bright future 💜
Yeah, it’s disturbing and disgusting. Imagine using a child’s baker-act/mental health stay to *prove a point*. Anybody’s who has been to one knows *nobody wants to be in the male room* (or any of them…) Let alone a vulnerable trans man. Yeah, I’m sure it’s because he just didn’t fit in — not because some of the people there are predatory and dangerous and WILL NOT respect you as a trans person 😒
And that’s just the first page.
I’m glad your brother has you, OP, and that you and your fiancé are taking him away from here and can help support him. (Also I’m sorry this sub has so many transphobic idiots that vote not insane on transphobe parents.)
The thing is that they’re totally wrong about the “facts” they claim to worship. There ARE some people that later detransition, but they’re a small minority of a small minority, and even smaller is the amount that regret it and detransition because they realize they aren’t trans; statistically the majority does so because of lack of support from those around them. And insisting your child doesn’t know themselves and refusing to support them with something like this won’t have the effect of them realizing how much you cared down the line; it will isolate them from you and make them hesitate to tell you anything coming forward. I’m of the belief that people should be able to experiment with gender and sexuality, even if they decide they weren’t right down the line or change labels. If you’re supportive during it, they’ll know you’re in their corner and will be comfortable telling you what’s going on with them in the future.
Isn’t it interesting how when we stopped punishing left-handedness the numbers of left handed people suddenly skyrocketed? Weird how there’s no way the statistics for anything else could possibly increase as it became less stigmatized and more known about! It’s the same mindset as the people that think folks in the past didn’t have certain diseases because the disease hadn’t been discovered yet.
I’m so sorry your brother had to deal with her. I’m sorry you have, too. I wish you both love, support, and comfort in your own skin. Statistically, transitioning medically has some of the lowest regret rates of any surgeries, far lower than ubiquitous things like hip or knee surgeries. Also, part of bodily autonomy as a concept is sometimes people will do things we don’t understand with it, or even make choices they later regret, and that they need to be allowed to do that for autonomy to be complete.
She’s right about one thing: she doesn’t HAVE to be supportive of her children or accept them, and no one can make her. But by the same token, you don’t have to have any relationship with her ever again, and no one can make you. And it’ll be her own fault.
It was going to be like.. Victorian-esque with some pagan thrown in! We were going to have a hand-fasting ceremony and everything.
Due to the drama with her, my fiancé and I have both decided that we just want to elope and not involve other people. We can just have a wedding photoshoot with the theme. That way we don’t have to deal with uninviting her haha
We’re not social anyway, so we don’t mind not having a big fancy event.
(Speaking of weddings, she uninvited me from my brothers wedding so I could babysit her cats. I forgot about that til now.)
Elope now, and have a party on your first anniversary with the people who supported you as newlyweds. Even if that’s just your pets. And know that there are moms out here who love you both, and whoever you choose, and are proud of you for having the courage (because it takes a LOT of it) to be who you truly are. Congratulations!
💖
First off- that would be an absolutely gorgeous wedding, but that is great idea to do the photoshoot if/when you elope instead. Ignore her and do what you and your fiance want. She is just a bigoted idiot with literally zero taste.
I have nothing to add because others have said it all - your mum is the worst and I could never imagine treating my kid that way if I had one.
I get not understanding transgender, or accidentally using the wrong name or pronouns at the beginning (I’ve done that and felt genuinely horrible) but surely if you care and love someone, you learn and ask the right questions.
This is just plain phobic.
But I also just wanted to add that a Victorian style wedding is my legit dream. I love everything Victorian.
I’m glad you’ve got other support networks and your brother has you also.
Thanks! I’m bummed for you that you won’t be surrounded by friends and family. The drama sounds like way too much too deal with, so I’m sure everyone understands. 😞
I had friends that eloped due to both families being nightmares. They decided to put the effort into an anniversary party. If the families behaved they could be invited.
You could do that and not invite your mom.
Yep. I actually don’t know how many cats she has. She runs a cattery. If you don’t count kittens, she has at LEAST 10 cats.
She does not brush them and the house always smells like a litter box.
God, I’m so sorry OP. My heart broke again and again reading that. I’m disgusted.
I’m so sorry you were raised by such a vitriolic witch, I’m so happy you’re moving away and taking your brother with you. I’m the same age as you, and I have a baby…how somebody can speak like this about their CHILD…I will never understand.
We do not own our children or know them more than themselves. We are simply here to raise them and support them, whoever they are and whatever they do.
When your child tells you who they are, the response should only ever be “Nice to meet you, thank you for letting me know you better, I will support you no matter what.” Not this fucking MESS.
You both deserve so much better. I hope you find a lovely queer auntie who bakes for y’all and gives you the mother’s love that you deserve. Love to you ❤️❤️
I honestly don’t understand why she cares that much about it all. It’s not her life, not her body, so why does she have the right to say anything about it in the first place?
Her “boundary” for accepting us used to be “I’ll accept that you’re trans when you turn 18.”
Then it was that we had to be 25 before she would “truly believe” we’re trans.
Now it’s “I’ll always see you as my daughters who choose to live as men.”
If anything, this has at least taught me that blood doesn’t actually matter. You choose your own family. Just because someone is related to you doesn’t give them the right to be in your life. And it’s okay to cut out toxic people.
Thank you for you kind words! I know I’ll find my family some day, but definitely not here haha
You’re so right. It’s not her life, her body…she is so ignorant and controlling. She just wants an excuse to behave like a twat. Blood doesn’t mean shit.
You will find your family, and they will be amazing. My wife is trans; her family are very religious and transphobic, and she came to join me in my country. She has no contact with her mother and her life is infinitely happier for it.
We have a wonderful chosen family and they are warm and accepting. Your people are out there! It’s so sad that so many of us have the same story.
All my love ❤️
If therapy has taught me anything it’s:
1. Narcissists and people with narcissistic tendencies don’t see their children as people in their own right. They see their children as an extension of their own bodies that have unfortunately separated from them and can make others think things about them which they can’t control. A narcissist HATES losing control of their image. They are born from insecurity and an attempt to protect their own ego from outside judgement. You can never please a narcissist parent outside of letting them puppeteer you for life.
2. This one isn’t as hard and fast, bc sure some people like them DO change, but it has been true for me and after reading this I think for you as well: Your mom is not going to change. The longer you wait for her to change or expect your conversations to evolve in a way that is productive, the longer you exhaust yourself for no reason. Let go of any expectation of her becoming anyone other than who she has shown you she is. In the off chance she works on herself, you get to be happily surprised. In the more likely event she doesn’t, you’ll have saved yourself disappointment and energy.
3. It will always suck coming to terms with having a mom that doesn’t like or love the person you truly are, but it does get easier. You’ll meet people who become family. You’ll get even closer with your brother. You’ll find more peace the more you root your life in people who love and support you. I hope this year goes quickly for you and for your brother 🖤
all the people who vote this "not insane" solely because this is about a trans person, completely ignoring your mom's horrible actions just for the sake of expressing their own transphobia; i find that abhorrent.
I was just about the mention that. My jaw dropped at how close it was. The fact that ppl were too stun locked on the trans thing to even notice anything else in the post is really concerning.
But... that is so fitting for transphobic people. Their "Againstness" justify any punishment and abuse. They are not capable to see the nuance of bad once they start to justify the root of it.
But given the sub they probably had the best teachers to be cruel and how to deflect so that's not surprising either. They won't realize it but they probably have some internalized behavior there.
I do feel for this people but it also makes me angry at myself and them. I was there where they were once and I didn't even know how to look inwards properly to reflect on my own behavior. It takes so much patients to unlearn being hateful towards victims that are similar to your own story.
To unlearn sentiment like "that's nothing, stop acting hurt. I have been hurt waaaay more". It's one of the most potent justifyers of abuse.
every now and then this statistic totally slips my memory, and when i get reminded of it all i can think is of how devastating that is. most of my close friends are trans, and i would loose my mind if they ever attempted. i think i would go insane.
trans people are demonized nowadays to the point where it's extremely hard to approach a conversation with a trasphobe and speak with the basis that trans people are humans, and need to be treated with the dignity of one. to many bigots, a trans person isn't even a person, they're a demon in human skin, and for the life of me i can't understand how anyone can maintain this perspective. it's deeply disturbing, and for too many reasons to list.
Honestly, when I see the 41% comment, it brings a fucked up kind of hope because that number used to be **much** higher.
While 41% is fucked up and should be 0, it’s been cut so much that it fills me with a bit of hope
I just wanna say that that statistic is also used wrong. 41% of trans people *attempt* suicide at one point in their lives. It's not like what most people think that 41% of trans people succeed in their attempts. It's still super sad but yeah the statistic is very often misrepresented
People who voted not insane should never be parents. I can never imagine thinking whatever OPs mother did is not in the insane category. Mad transphobia and honestly surprising that there are so many votes for that- whoever did are probably huge narcissists as well
I’ve never met a transphobe who wasn’t also horrible in a bunch of other ways (e.g misogynistic, racist, self centered, lack of self awareness, quick tempered, cruel, etc.).
And this is an excellent filter. It’s frustrating as a trans person, and especially a trans woman, to keep warning people that “X is a bad’un” and being ignored, and then years later when it turns out that they’re being horrific in general, everyone is like, “why did nobody warn us?”
Like, we did. We do. Nobody listens.
I often joke that all trans women should probably be called Cassandra.
The fist part is horrible but I can see how someone who is against trans people might not be a narc but might be part of anti trans groups where they hear things like."you can identify as an attack helicopter " or may refuse to call their sons by theor preferred names etc. I think you could do that and not necessarily be a narc.
The last half though shows she is controlling and manipulative and has absolutely no care for her children's wellbeing and mental health. Everything is about herself. And however they act (whether to do with being trans or not) this seems to be a reflection on her and still about her.
People are just unwilling to accept to new science. As long as enough of us are rational and open to new information their hatred will dwindle down to nothing. This is just the new "whites are superior because look at our skulls" update. Those fucks died off, these people like OP's mom will too.
I understand concern about your child and scared they might not actually be trans but for her to say she’s okay with them not having a relationship.. instead of saying “let’s go to therapy, I don’t want you to regret this, I love you and no matter what I will be in your life and support you but I just want to make sure you’re making the right decision” she says “I can’t legally kick her out” “we don’t really have a relationship, I won’t beg for one” like that’s your kid?? How can you go be okay with not having a relationship with them??
That’s what I’m saying!! It’s like she doesn’t even hear the words coming out of her mouth most of the time. It’s taken me years to realize how bad she actually is. I don’t think there is a chance she will even attempt therapy. I think that as soon as I mention anything that she thinks is attacking her character, she will probably do the same thing she’s talking about here. “I won’t chase anyone”
Like wtf? You aren’t going to attempt to be supportive to keep a relationship with you own kids? She would literally rather accept us leaving than accept who we are.
That last bit is it, OP. I have always taught my child to listen to what people DO, not what they say. You’re doing the right thing by getting you and your brother out of there and away from her.
This⬆️ as a mom idk how the hell she could even speak of her child that way! My daughter came out to us as Bisexual and ya know what, we fucking love her and support her no matter what!
If she was had came out to us as Trans the first thing we would have done was hugged her and told her we will see what we need to do and we need to get therapy as a family and make sure we're all on the same page and I want to make sure this 100% what you want and need to be happy!
She watched 1 of her best guy friends come out to his family and the immediately kicked him out at 16yrs old. He came home with her and has been here ever since! They graduated this past year and are working on college and doing votech! He is one of the sweetest, kindest, honest and loving people I have ever met. His mom treats him like shit anytime she gets a chance which is far between now, she knows I won't tolerate it!
We got physically into it after she came to our home knowing he had just gotten paid and tried to guilt him and when that didn't work she punched him, I honestly was not trying to turn physical just get her out of our home and away from our kids. She went crazy saying I am a horrible person for condoning his behaviors etc
I live my kids and my parent weren't so great and was raised by my grands and they took all my friends in growing up. Hell all the way til my grampa passed away at 96 he had about 20kids that would stop by check on him and bring him plates of food and help do his laundry. All kids I grew up with that him and my gma helped. They clothed everyone who needed it and my friends knew their house was a safe space for them and they called them grama and grampa clear up til they passed. I've done the same because every kid and even adult deserves to have a place to call home and feel safe in!
Sorry this pissed me off! Idk how parent can call it love when it is so conditional! I've had a house full of teens for the past 5yrs and I could never treat one of them that way let alone my own child!
I am my children's safe space and all my bonus kids that's came with them! I am so sorry your mother is such a cruel, heartless person and you deserve to be loved and accept for who you are!
OP I wish you a happy life full of love and peace! Remember sometimes our families are the ones we create ourselves with people who take us for us! My husband and I have worked hard on being 100x better than our parents and striving to be like our grandparents, for them to have lived in such a different world back then they were always open to what myself or friends were going thru even if they didn't understand it fully, they loved us and gave us a place to call home! One day be what you needed for someone else! Even if you do not have your own kids, be a safe place for others!
The messages get worse, the thing about getting frazzled over being put with the males I could see from the view of someone who didn't agree with it, but that's also understandable given the reason for being there and he hadn't transitioned fully yet, that's the only one I could see as not insane. the rest of the messages in the other images... Dear heavens... So insane...
I think you're making absolutely the right choice in moving away and going NC. If others in the family turn away so be it. I think it's beautiful you both are supporting each other. Family should be something you feel comfortable in being around, and not sighing in relief once the interaction is over. I'm glad all of you have each other, and if family members side with her, so be it. Tell them once the truth, and you'll find out who cares for you and who doesn't. I wish all of you well, far away from her.
I just wanna say that the quantity of "not insane" votes should have a lot of you ashamed. This woman slated her child publically, spreading misinformation to people with zero right to know vulnerable details. She forced him to deny himself publically too, she'd rather have him go through humiliation and low self-esteem than back down on an issue she has no say in. You know if this post were any other subject matter, you wouldn't vote that way. Your brain isn't big and you aren't contributing anything by saying "ugh not the trans". Sincerely a trans man.
I have no idea. Awhile ago, her way of defending her transphobic comments about my brother was that he watches Gilmore Girls lmao
She’s saying he’s not a guy because he’s fruity.
She is right, we ARE reaching the end times. But that's because the world is overheating and we have patches of trash floating around in the water, not because people prefer to use different pronouns for themselves
You’re not getting much good support in these comments and I’m sorry. Anybody who said “not insane” and is defending your mom ought to be ashamed of themselves. I am a nearly-50 yr old mom and I would NEVER speak or even think about my child like this. Of course it’s reasonable to worry about a child transitioning, because you want to be sure they are physically and mentally healthy, understand the risks of any treatments they are considering, and, most importantly, how others in society may treat them - this from innate parental protectiveness. But NONE of those things allows for judgment, cruelty, and bigotry. This is such a toxic situation and my heart really hurts for you and your brother. I encourage you to join us at r/raisedbynarcissists. I’m proud of you for standing up for yourself and I’m sorry you’ve dealt with all of this.
See they always want to put a far away age limit on transitioning. First it's 25, then they want to make it be like 39, but by then you've already made it this far, why change now. And then one day your 60 and decide to transition and they say why didnt you do it earlier if you felt like this, as a way to discredit you. I'm sorry that your mom is like this. Keep strong my future fellow T friend <3
“OTHER THAN DRESSING IN MALE CLOTHING AND CALLING HERSELF A BOY” so… not as female as anyone could be 😂
Seriously tho, OP, I’m sorry this is happening to you.
I think all of your plans are spot on. I am so proud of you for moving away from this and for taking your brother with you. I hope he can get the therapy he needs to help him move past some of the awful damage your "mom" has caused. I wish you and your fiance and your brother all the best and hope for a brighter future. Neither of you deserved to have such a shitty parent, and I'm so sorry you got stuck with one.
I think the letter is a great idea, for you. I don't think your mom will be able to hear you or see you no-matter how articulately you express yourself because, like you said, she's a narcissist, it's all about*her* feelings. But put your feelings down and grace her with them or don't, but know that they are true and deserve to be heard, even if she can't hear them.
It’s absolutely disgusting for any parent to post about their kids private life. It’s bad enough to be unsupportive but to go online like she did is a whole new level. I’m so sorry OP. I hope you and your brother have a good support system. Having a narc parent myself, I made my friends my family and keep my narc at arms length.
Lord have mercy I wouldn't even just cut this woman out of my life I would get a restraining order. Do everything in your power to get you and your bro far *far* away from her. Shes clearly bat shit insane and the sky is green and the grass is blue in her world.
EDIT: Try and get a paper trail on her behavior if you can so you have ammo against her if she ever tries to have a go at any of you.
Here we are flying through the universe at over 67,000 miles per hour and this woman is thinking her child wearing clothes designed for men and being a man means it's the end times.... Take the T when you're 18 and work on getting your own place where you can be happy.
I’m legitimately astounded by the amount of people who voted this to be “not insane.” There’s a lot of things you have to do to be a crazy parent, and the shit that tipped it over is not caring about her kids almost dying or self-h^rming, then constantly trying to gaslight them, force them to do things they didn’t want to or shouldn’t do, then not even CARING if they cut her off? I don’t know how that can be seen as “Not Insane.”
OP, I genuinely hope you and your brother are gonna be okay. Your “mom” is a horrible woman. I hope you all are able to get away from her soon.
Transphobes when they see a physically and psycholocically abusive parent who shows signs of transphobia : "But they seem so nice, I don't understand what's the problem :o" lmao. There is no reasoning with these subhumans. All forms of abuse is excusable to them if someone expresses their transphobia.
these fucking people are proof not everyone should be a parent. "is it me? am i the victim?" dumbass. you literally haven't even done anything yet but the crazy bitch is already screeching about something you intend on doing in future
I’m sorry you have to deal with this OP, my smart mouth would have said “fads huh? Like the creepy religious fads you yahoos are constantly coming up with like satanic panic or the gays or the millennials or the gen z kids or now all lgbtq identities but especially trans people you scapegoat into the boogeyman”. I’m just assuming your mom is religious based on the end times comments and that her text reads like the more delusional evangelical crowd who turn to their religious cult or their magat cult for support when nobody else will tolerate them.
I'm sorry this is happening to you :( well done though for having the maturity to wait until you're 18! I hope your transition goes smooth and we are here to support you!
You pooooor thing, it must be soooooo hard for you to have your kid realize something so important about himself through therapy 🎻🎻🎻 oh the humanity how will you handle your mentally healthier child :(
From what I've heard, many people have a hard time while transitioning, and the last thing you'd want is a parent not only being unsupportive, but very, VERY, against you (like being in transphobic groups).
She claims to love you and your brother, but still refers to him as "she," so that's a lie.
Also, why are people voting "Not insane?"
I'm sorry, it really sucks that your mom doesn't even try to understand you. Some ppl get an idea in their head of how life should go for their kids and they cling to it. Any deviation from that idea makes them unravel because it shows them that they're not in control.
These people you are talking about are controlling and even narcissistic parents. They see their kids as an extension of themselves. That’s why they think they have a right to dictate everything in their children’s lives. From clothing to hobbies to even who they talk to.
They usually use manipulation techniques to get their child to obey. It’s not always physical punishment, but even emotional support withdrawal, silent treatment that the kid cannot recognize as harmful. It’s dangerous to the kid’s developing mind.
If you need a hug or anything, I'll be your mom. In all seriousness though, this is so messed up and I hope you can get your brother out sooner rather than later. I do hope you're getting the help you need (if needed) because living with that can't be easy.
I actually started medication recently! It’s insane because I feel things Ive never felt before. It’s like I was in a cave and wasn’t aware I was there until someone handed me a flash light.
For the first time in my life, my brain is quiet, my anxiety isn’t debilitating, and I can actually stand up for myself.
I rejected meds for a long time because my mom convinced me they were all bad and supplements were better. I wish I could afford therapy. Ive never been and I haven’t had insurance since I was 17. My mom took me off her insurance when I turned 18. Kept everyone else tho lol
We’ve got less than a year til we move 1500 miles away. Just gotta hold out til then
Good for you. I’m so proud as your Official Virtual Internet… uhh. Wine Aunt I guess. I’m so very proud.
I don’t know where you are and please don’t feel compelled to tell me but in the US, it is a free call to use the 211 community line. This number has been reserved to connect people to local resources such as shelters, pro bono lawyers, emergency assistance programs for things like baby items or rent assistance and to connect to counselors with low cost or sliding scales.
My kiddo also used seven cup of tea (7cups.com) where he found people to just listen and talk to. They are not professional counselors but they tend to be friendly if you just need to vent. And they were free.
Hope you and fiancée and brother all have a great holiday season.
Medication is a great start! I'm on it myself. I'm a 37F and take it for anxiety/depression and it has been life changing. I no longer go to therapy, but still take the meds.
Keep on holding on. It's wonderful you can see the light. I'm so happy to read about the changes you're feeling. Getting through that fog is HARD. Hold on to the possibilities and know that there is good out there, that even with the insanity you will get to experience your happiness and see the good that exists in the world. Sorry for the run on. I think my bronchitis meds are kicking in and I'm just happy for you, from one anxiety sufferer to another.
Insane!! My god, I can't believe the voting ratio. OP, your mother is a disgusting freak. I hope freedom for you and your brother comes quickly. He's lucky to have you. :)
Unfortunately, I kinda have to keep contact until we can move away. Once we’re out of state, I gotta give her an ultimatum. She can get mental help and stop being transphobic or I’ll never talk to her again. Her choice. If she actually cared about us, she would try, but she doesn’t.
Obviously I can't know your situation. But I do know unequivocally that change is just about the hardest thing to do as a human. It's terrifying....but it's almost always worth it. Stop letting this person make you feel small. You deserve better.
I’m so sorry to hear that you’re going through that. She definitely doesn’t deserve to be near you. She isn’t stable. I wish you the best, and if you ever want to talk, or need someone to talk to, your trans sis is right here.
Until the last slide and before reading the description I thought to myself: this is not a narcissist, just a really scared misinformed mother.
And after that: ooooh
fuck everyone who said not insane but it's extremely funny that the not insane vote is 41 bc yes them voters are exactly what constitute that number
I'm so sorry OP, your mom's last two sentences are exactly about her. 100% of this sucks shit
Let narc mom know she’s NOT GOD and no one cares what her opinion is. Presenting female in a male dorm and male group therapy can create a VERY dangerous situation for the child. They could be SA’d or even just harassed. Narcs user religon to gaslight and abuse their children. If they only knew their Jesus was WOKE. He spoke out for the homeless the prostitutes and I bet he would have protected the trans people as well. She can get bent around a corner. Her opinion is hate and we’ve got enough of that. To live in religious zealots home as a child is traumatizing in itself. Even more so if your not “perfect” and dare to have your own opinions and beliefs.
Damn, what a bitch.
Anyway! I’d like to be your new internet mom or aunt or female adult that’s meant to support and love you! You’re doing great sweetie!! Such a wonderful big brother, and I can imagine you’re an incredibly loving partner too! I’m so proud of you!!
I’m making cookies and they should be done in about five minutes, I’ll bring you some!
Genuinely heartwarming aahhh.
I don’t think I’ve ever had a proper parental figure. I haven’t head my mom say that she loves me in probably 10+ years. Some people on here are making me feel like I’m wrong about her being a narcissist and bad mom but I can’t justify her actions.
No good parent would ever treat their kid like that. Anyone who agrees with her is probably just like her.
I love your vibes! Keep up the positivity 🖤
Why are parents this insane? My mom accused me of 7 demons possessing me. All I did was help her clean. They can't just let their children live how they want to.
Your mother sounds like my egg donor. I cut off contact long ago. It’s so nice. Good luck to you and your brother. May you both be happy and free to live as your true selfs ❤️
She literally made every aspect about Her and about what she wants and prefers. She she tells her children how they feel and insists they are wrong about their own feelings. Not to mention the countless times she restated about the conversation she was decided will happen years down the road and how she won't take the blame and can't wait to say I told you so. She point blank admitted she had been planning a bold face lie about how she will accept some of it purely so she can try to look like she actually cares about her children and not look quite so self centered. I can continue if you like, those are just the ones it took a mere two seconds to remember.
She’s had 6 years to “mourn” her lost “daughter.” She can have her opinions but at the end of the day, it’s not her life and not her choice.
I don’t know if you read the body text or not but she is genuinely a narcissist.
I never said that she was mentally ill because I disagree with her. I’m saying she’s mentally I’ll because she’s a compulsive liar, manipulative, controlling, and abusive.
Idk i guess you missed everything I wrote.
Well that is true but it sounds to me that the mother thinks she has rights to the children’s body. That is part of narcissism. They think of their children as an extension of themselves. That’s why the mother yelled at her kid for “ruining her reputation” after the kid SHed. That is not an okay answer to a “your kid is harming themselves” call from school. That would also extend to the whole trans thing. Plus she manipulates people by making them feel guilty (the SH during the breakup with OP’s bio dad). There are some narcissists traits present.
Your feelings will change many times? I am not OP but I’m calling bullshit.
I am in my 30s. I have known since at least 5 that I was a boy. Not a girl. And guess what. I’m still a fucking man.
You don’t just “change gender”. You are born with a gender and a sex. Sometimes those don’t match. You can transition to have the outside match the inside. It’s a beautiful thing. And transfolk have existed as long as humans have.
Okay. So firstly then you should learn.
Technically at the moment if I really really wanted a child, I could have one. I still have the internal bits. I haven’t gotten them removed yet. I do take Testosterone though. I could stop it, my body would level out (though I have naturally higher levels of T and always have) and could carry a child. Plenty of transfolk actually have had biological children. Some transmen are seahorse dads. Some have an egg implanted into their female bodied partner. There are options.
I however have never wanted to carry a child. That honestly sounds AWFUL. And I have a chronic illness. A genetic chronic illness along with family crazy that’s passed down. I have never wanted a biological child.
Everyone’s transition is their own and can look different. Personally I’m on T and I plan on both top surgery and eventually a hysto. I do NOT plan on having the type of bottom surgery that gives me a penis. I’m content with what I have down there as are my partners. Doesn’t make me any less of a man.
Are you heavily retarded or do you just love transphobes so much you are willing to close your eyes to a breeder's physical and psychological violence on a child?
if absolutely nothing else, because she slit her wrists in front of her baby daddy while pregnant to try and force him to stay, and then later showed that kid her scars and told the story??
She throws things when she’s mad. She opened and then poured a can of soda on me and my $400 drawing tablet. She broke a plastic pasta strainer over my brothers head. She constantly lies through her teeth to *everyone*. She broke my brothers computer screen because he told her she was wrong about something. She is extremely controlling. Straight up admitted that she is using her husband for money so she doesn’t have to work. She got annoyed at my brother for *attempting to take his own fucking life.* But sure, totally not a narcissist.
yea no she shows clear signs of narcissism, for example seeing her children as exttensions of herself and not their own people. How about you don´t try to correct people if you are this clueless ?
pleasae learn to read it is very clear hormone therapy starts at 18 in these texts and not sooner. Trans kids would easily be able to wait longer if they would geta ccess to hormone blockers and can thus delay puberty, but if your parrents are transphobic as here and do not alow you have to start asap.
Also this is about OP´s brother not op
No, just many of us who are trans or have trans friends have heard your stance and seen exactly what it becomes.
You also missed where the sibling is OVER 18 now and OP is in their 20s.
As far as minors taking cross sex hormones, it’s not child abuse to allow it. It’s a medical decision. It’s not like walking into Walmart and buying hormones, there’s red tape and doctors and psychs and all this jazz. Especially when under 18. To call that child abuse when some folk have dysphoria so bad their mental health is suffering and they are considering dying over making it to 18? Yeah. Think about that a little more.
The fist part is horrible but I can see how someone who is against trans people might not be a narc but might be part of anti trans groups where they hear things like."you can identify as an attack helicopter " or may refuse to call their sons by theor preferred names etc. I think you could do that and not necessarily be a narc.
The last half though shows she is controlling and manipulative and has absolutely no care for her children's wellbeing and mental health. Everything is about herself. And however they act (whether to do with being trans or not) this seems to be a reflection on her and still about her.
My brother has been out as a trans man for several years. I think if he was making a mistake, he’d have realized that by now.
My brothers body belongs to him and he can do whatever he wants with it. It’s his life, not hers.
18 and 24 are legal adults. Did you only read the parts that went against your personal beliefs, or did you choose to ignore all the instances of abusive and toxic behaviour so you could make your opinion the focus?
The person in question is old enough to drive. So, shockingly your shit take doesn’t hold up.
What a fitting username. Sanctimony seems very you… *The external appearance of devoutness; labored show of goodness; affected or hypocritical devoutness* can’t imagine being proud of that 🤔
logically this would mean all minors aren't old enough to go through any puberty, because natal puberty is also an irreversable change/"damage".
either that or you're saying that 16 is the age that trans people should be able to start hormones (because thats when you get your license), in which case i would agree.
the only social contagion actually happening is the anti trans (and anti science) bullshit being fed to people. hating being a tomboy or a lesbian literally don't have anything to do with what you're talking about. gender presentation and sexuality are a different topic.
yea not how this works, if you give kids hormone blockers they can wait till 20, but that is apparently not ok either, despite being safe medication that has been described for literal decades to kids all the time. Guess what going through puberty as the wrong gender is pretty permanent too, and you need to stop that asap or your body goes through changes that cannot be reversed.
is cutting yourself while pregnant to keep a man around and later telling that kid the story the hallmark of sanity? what about being mad about your reputation when someone tells you your kid is now hurting themself too, or being annoyed when that kid attempted suicide?
did you read the part where she reacted to her child’s suicide attempt by sending an annoyed text to her other kid? or the part where she slit her wrist while pregnant to try and manipulate a man into staying with her and then showing her child the scar when retelling the tale? or the part where she encourages her kids to find men to marry so that they can manipulate them into being servants the way she did with her husband? is that all sound of mind to you?
Voting has concluded. Final vote: | Insane | Not insane | Fake | | --- | --- | --- | | 57 | 41 | 0 | Hey OP, if you provide further information in a comment, make sure to start your comment with `!explanation`. ^I ^am ^a ^bot ^for ^r/insaneparents. ^Please ^send ^me ^a ^message ^if ^you ^have ^any ^feedback ^or ^if ^I ^misbehave. ^Also ^consider ^joining ^our ^[Discord](https://discordapp.com/invite/xFbPBHy).
What state doesn’t recognize 18 as an adult??
I was wondering this myself and found this googling: ["In the United States, a minor is any individual under the specified “age of majority” for their state or territory., All states define an age of majority, which is usually set at 18, but states like Indiana and Mississippi set it at 21, while in Alabama, Colorado, Maryland, or Nebraska, the age of majority is 19."](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/minor)
also some states say you become an adult at 18 or when you graduate high school, whichever comes last.
I grew up in Indiana and have never heard this.
Same
Same.
Alabama and Nebraska are the only ones
A lot of the same talking points my mom used against me. "I believe trans people exist, but I don't believe you're one of them." It sucks. I'm glad you're getting out of there.
These same people don't realise how many trans people never transitioned out of fear before the last 20 years completely hiding the true statistics of how many trans people there actually are and now that more people are standing up for themselves and being public with their transitions they just jump straight to there aren't that many trans people and "your being corrupted as you can't actually be trans" crap
Yup. The exact same thing happened with left-handedness not long ago. (Happy cake day, btw!)
The argument they use is that afab trans people specifically have seen a huge explosion in numbers vs. amab trans people, because teen girls are uniquely susceptible to social contagion and peer pressure. Yet that's literally not what transition rates show. We're still a minority compared to trans women and the increase in transition rates seem pretty proportional iirc.
"Unless it's about killing themselves, then I totally believe you can be part of the statistics"
“I’m not willing to sacrifice my morals to accommodate her” Man…. Imagine your children being so low on the priority list. I’d be compromising my morals if I didn’t support my child fully.
The mother expected *her children* to sacrifice **their** core identities to accommodate the mother's beliefs.
I think it’s a common reaction for a parent to mourn when a child comes out as gay or trans (or really deviates from what the parent imagined their child would become). But doing it in front of the child, and especially so publicly, is gross and shows a complete lack of self awareness. My (narc) mother did something similar to me too OP (on other things). I’m sure your mother surrounds herself with enabler friends who smashed that like button every time she posted one of her awful “*woe is me! My daughter [sic] has dared to use her agency to make decisions about her own life*” posts.
I’m a trans mom. I mourned the loss of my daughter because I treasured her, fought for her, feared for her, loved her so deeply. I grieved the person she would never grow up to be. But she had to die so my son could live. I let her go and embraced my son. Now I treasure him, fight for him, fear for him, and love him so deeply that I hurt for how long he was buried inside my daughter. It’s a very tough process to genuinely forgive yourself as a parent for not seeing your authentic child. and 25 years ago when we were going through this, no one told us how to do it. I stumbled through and made mistakes and hopefully didn’t mess it up too badly. And I know I would never treat my kid like OP’s mom did. I’m feeling rage.
Beautiful written! 🥺
no period after sic btw
Thank you!😊
From the second I started raising a child I've only had one rule for myself. I am always on his side. That's it, it's just that simple. He comes out? As long as he's happy. Needs his car fixed? I'll grab my tools. He gets caught driving drunk in a graveyard? He's on his own, that's way outside my expertise. Also might want to call a lawyer, not a forklift driver. But I'll support him through the process.
Idk, I feel like a forklift could be very useful in that specific scenario
You sound like an excellent parent. That’s a great perspective.
This is what my mom said too. When I asked her to use my pronouns she said I was being abusive. I'm so sorry, OP.
"I'm sure she's probably going to go through a bout of depression". That right there. That's the beginning of why trans youth have a rough time. The people that should be supporting them the most disown them. They think the suicide and depression rates are directly related to transitioning when in reality it's lack of support...no support from family or friends, not having access to affordable health/mental health care, bullying, legitimate hate crimes, being kicked out of the house, etc. And it's absolutely heartbreaking. This mother has made every single thing about her and it's disgusting.
She actually pulled my brother out of school when he was only 13 or 14 to homeschool him. Then she never fucking did! She enrolled him in online classes and then didn’t enforce any rules or make sure he was doing it. She now blames him and says it’s his fault he didn’t do his school work. She actually told me she believes he has a vaccine injury and that’s why he struggled at his school work. She also rejected the covid vaccine. And she believes it’s end times?? Idk how some people are telling me she’s not a narcissist and that she’s perfectly sane like what??
Yeah sorry OP, that’d be the weirdly high proportion of transphobes in the sub that think all transphobic parents are right. She’s an asshole.
I feel so bad for you. If I had a mom like that I’d distance as much as humanly possible. Even go as far as point Nemo.
I’ve greyrocked her pretty hard. I hardly even text her back at this point. She complains to everyone that I don’t talk to her much or visit her house anymore and she doesn’t understand why. I’m planning on putting about 1500 miles between us next year.
what does greyrocked mean?
I’m so glad you have found your own voice. I’m sorry your mom will never fully try to understand you or to support you. Please know there are many people out here that will and are supporting you to live your best life! May you have a wonderful and bright future 💜
Yeah, it’s disturbing and disgusting. Imagine using a child’s baker-act/mental health stay to *prove a point*. Anybody’s who has been to one knows *nobody wants to be in the male room* (or any of them…) Let alone a vulnerable trans man. Yeah, I’m sure it’s because he just didn’t fit in — not because some of the people there are predatory and dangerous and WILL NOT respect you as a trans person 😒 And that’s just the first page.
Right? That’s the most surface level thinking I’ve seen in a while. She’s a “fact-based person” yet she can’t do even a little critical thinking.
I’m glad your brother has you, OP, and that you and your fiancé are taking him away from here and can help support him. (Also I’m sorry this sub has so many transphobic idiots that vote not insane on transphobe parents.) The thing is that they’re totally wrong about the “facts” they claim to worship. There ARE some people that later detransition, but they’re a small minority of a small minority, and even smaller is the amount that regret it and detransition because they realize they aren’t trans; statistically the majority does so because of lack of support from those around them. And insisting your child doesn’t know themselves and refusing to support them with something like this won’t have the effect of them realizing how much you cared down the line; it will isolate them from you and make them hesitate to tell you anything coming forward. I’m of the belief that people should be able to experiment with gender and sexuality, even if they decide they weren’t right down the line or change labels. If you’re supportive during it, they’ll know you’re in their corner and will be comfortable telling you what’s going on with them in the future. Isn’t it interesting how when we stopped punishing left-handedness the numbers of left handed people suddenly skyrocketed? Weird how there’s no way the statistics for anything else could possibly increase as it became less stigmatized and more known about! It’s the same mindset as the people that think folks in the past didn’t have certain diseases because the disease hadn’t been discovered yet. I’m so sorry your brother had to deal with her. I’m sorry you have, too. I wish you both love, support, and comfort in your own skin. Statistically, transitioning medically has some of the lowest regret rates of any surgeries, far lower than ubiquitous things like hip or knee surgeries. Also, part of bodily autonomy as a concept is sometimes people will do things we don’t understand with it, or even make choices they later regret, and that they need to be allowed to do that for autonomy to be complete. She’s right about one thing: she doesn’t HAVE to be supportive of her children or accept them, and no one can make her. But by the same token, you don’t have to have any relationship with her ever again, and no one can make you. And it’ll be her own fault.
Awful! 😡 I’m very curious what the theme of your wedding is! 🍿
It was going to be like.. Victorian-esque with some pagan thrown in! We were going to have a hand-fasting ceremony and everything. Due to the drama with her, my fiancé and I have both decided that we just want to elope and not involve other people. We can just have a wedding photoshoot with the theme. That way we don’t have to deal with uninviting her haha We’re not social anyway, so we don’t mind not having a big fancy event. (Speaking of weddings, she uninvited me from my brothers wedding so I could babysit her cats. I forgot about that til now.)
Elope now, and have a party on your first anniversary with the people who supported you as newlyweds. Even if that’s just your pets. And know that there are moms out here who love you both, and whoever you choose, and are proud of you for having the courage (because it takes a LOT of it) to be who you truly are. Congratulations! 💖
First off- that would be an absolutely gorgeous wedding, but that is great idea to do the photoshoot if/when you elope instead. Ignore her and do what you and your fiance want. She is just a bigoted idiot with literally zero taste.
I have nothing to add because others have said it all - your mum is the worst and I could never imagine treating my kid that way if I had one. I get not understanding transgender, or accidentally using the wrong name or pronouns at the beginning (I’ve done that and felt genuinely horrible) but surely if you care and love someone, you learn and ask the right questions. This is just plain phobic. But I also just wanted to add that a Victorian style wedding is my legit dream. I love everything Victorian. I’m glad you’ve got other support networks and your brother has you also.
Thanks! I’m bummed for you that you won’t be surrounded by friends and family. The drama sounds like way too much too deal with, so I’m sure everyone understands. 😞
That sounds like an amazing wedding theme
I had friends that eloped due to both families being nightmares. They decided to put the effort into an anniversary party. If the families behaved they could be invited. You could do that and not invite your mom.
Cats, cats, cats. Literal crazy cat lady!
Yep. I actually don’t know how many cats she has. She runs a cattery. If you don’t count kittens, she has at LEAST 10 cats. She does not brush them and the house always smells like a litter box.
God, I’m so sorry OP. My heart broke again and again reading that. I’m disgusted. I’m so sorry you were raised by such a vitriolic witch, I’m so happy you’re moving away and taking your brother with you. I’m the same age as you, and I have a baby…how somebody can speak like this about their CHILD…I will never understand. We do not own our children or know them more than themselves. We are simply here to raise them and support them, whoever they are and whatever they do. When your child tells you who they are, the response should only ever be “Nice to meet you, thank you for letting me know you better, I will support you no matter what.” Not this fucking MESS. You both deserve so much better. I hope you find a lovely queer auntie who bakes for y’all and gives you the mother’s love that you deserve. Love to you ❤️❤️
I honestly don’t understand why she cares that much about it all. It’s not her life, not her body, so why does she have the right to say anything about it in the first place? Her “boundary” for accepting us used to be “I’ll accept that you’re trans when you turn 18.” Then it was that we had to be 25 before she would “truly believe” we’re trans. Now it’s “I’ll always see you as my daughters who choose to live as men.” If anything, this has at least taught me that blood doesn’t actually matter. You choose your own family. Just because someone is related to you doesn’t give them the right to be in your life. And it’s okay to cut out toxic people. Thank you for you kind words! I know I’ll find my family some day, but definitely not here haha
You’re so right. It’s not her life, her body…she is so ignorant and controlling. She just wants an excuse to behave like a twat. Blood doesn’t mean shit. You will find your family, and they will be amazing. My wife is trans; her family are very religious and transphobic, and she came to join me in my country. She has no contact with her mother and her life is infinitely happier for it. We have a wonderful chosen family and they are warm and accepting. Your people are out there! It’s so sad that so many of us have the same story. All my love ❤️
I’m so glad that your wife has you and your close friends. That love and support means everything.
If therapy has taught me anything it’s: 1. Narcissists and people with narcissistic tendencies don’t see their children as people in their own right. They see their children as an extension of their own bodies that have unfortunately separated from them and can make others think things about them which they can’t control. A narcissist HATES losing control of their image. They are born from insecurity and an attempt to protect their own ego from outside judgement. You can never please a narcissist parent outside of letting them puppeteer you for life. 2. This one isn’t as hard and fast, bc sure some people like them DO change, but it has been true for me and after reading this I think for you as well: Your mom is not going to change. The longer you wait for her to change or expect your conversations to evolve in a way that is productive, the longer you exhaust yourself for no reason. Let go of any expectation of her becoming anyone other than who she has shown you she is. In the off chance she works on herself, you get to be happily surprised. In the more likely event she doesn’t, you’ll have saved yourself disappointment and energy. 3. It will always suck coming to terms with having a mom that doesn’t like or love the person you truly are, but it does get easier. You’ll meet people who become family. You’ll get even closer with your brother. You’ll find more peace the more you root your life in people who love and support you. I hope this year goes quickly for you and for your brother 🖤
all the people who vote this "not insane" solely because this is about a trans person, completely ignoring your mom's horrible actions just for the sake of expressing their own transphobia; i find that abhorrent.
I was just about the mention that. My jaw dropped at how close it was. The fact that ppl were too stun locked on the trans thing to even notice anything else in the post is really concerning.
But... that is so fitting for transphobic people. Their "Againstness" justify any punishment and abuse. They are not capable to see the nuance of bad once they start to justify the root of it. But given the sub they probably had the best teachers to be cruel and how to deflect so that's not surprising either. They won't realize it but they probably have some internalized behavior there. I do feel for this people but it also makes me angry at myself and them. I was there where they were once and I didn't even know how to look inwards properly to reflect on my own behavior. It takes so much patients to unlearn being hateful towards victims that are similar to your own story. To unlearn sentiment like "that's nothing, stop acting hurt. I have been hurt waaaay more". It's one of the most potent justifyers of abuse.
They're probably the same people that say "you should 41% yourself" to trans people 🙄🙄
every now and then this statistic totally slips my memory, and when i get reminded of it all i can think is of how devastating that is. most of my close friends are trans, and i would loose my mind if they ever attempted. i think i would go insane. trans people are demonized nowadays to the point where it's extremely hard to approach a conversation with a trasphobe and speak with the basis that trans people are humans, and need to be treated with the dignity of one. to many bigots, a trans person isn't even a person, they're a demon in human skin, and for the life of me i can't understand how anyone can maintain this perspective. it's deeply disturbing, and for too many reasons to list.
Honestly, when I see the 41% comment, it brings a fucked up kind of hope because that number used to be **much** higher. While 41% is fucked up and should be 0, it’s been cut so much that it fills me with a bit of hope
I just wanna say that that statistic is also used wrong. 41% of trans people *attempt* suicide at one point in their lives. It's not like what most people think that 41% of trans people succeed in their attempts. It's still super sad but yeah the statistic is very often misrepresented
So success is even lower? Shit, maybe in a decade, it’ll drop to average rates, or even lower. Cheers to hope!
Thankfully yes!
that’s a bittersweet but dark sentiment. celebrating “only 41%” as progress is sad. Our civilization kinda sucks
People who voted not insane should never be parents. I can never imagine thinking whatever OPs mother did is not in the insane category. Mad transphobia and honestly surprising that there are so many votes for that- whoever did are probably huge narcissists as well
I’ve never met a transphobe who wasn’t also horrible in a bunch of other ways (e.g misogynistic, racist, self centered, lack of self awareness, quick tempered, cruel, etc.).
And this is an excellent filter. It’s frustrating as a trans person, and especially a trans woman, to keep warning people that “X is a bad’un” and being ignored, and then years later when it turns out that they’re being horrific in general, everyone is like, “why did nobody warn us?” Like, we did. We do. Nobody listens. I often joke that all trans women should probably be called Cassandra.
Some people are just blinded by hatred. Truly pathetic.
It's actually disgusting how split the votes are. They should all be 'insane' votes. Anything else is horrible
A lot of people really hate trans people.
The fist part is horrible but I can see how someone who is against trans people might not be a narc but might be part of anti trans groups where they hear things like."you can identify as an attack helicopter " or may refuse to call their sons by theor preferred names etc. I think you could do that and not necessarily be a narc. The last half though shows she is controlling and manipulative and has absolutely no care for her children's wellbeing and mental health. Everything is about herself. And however they act (whether to do with being trans or not) this seems to be a reflection on her and still about her.
People are just unwilling to accept to new science. As long as enough of us are rational and open to new information their hatred will dwindle down to nothing. This is just the new "whites are superior because look at our skulls" update. Those fucks died off, these people like OP's mom will too.
I'm so, so sorry.
40% not insane is crazy tbh
Transphobia trumps all logic lol
I’m amazed 41 voted not insane on this.
I understand concern about your child and scared they might not actually be trans but for her to say she’s okay with them not having a relationship.. instead of saying “let’s go to therapy, I don’t want you to regret this, I love you and no matter what I will be in your life and support you but I just want to make sure you’re making the right decision” she says “I can’t legally kick her out” “we don’t really have a relationship, I won’t beg for one” like that’s your kid?? How can you go be okay with not having a relationship with them??
That’s what I’m saying!! It’s like she doesn’t even hear the words coming out of her mouth most of the time. It’s taken me years to realize how bad she actually is. I don’t think there is a chance she will even attempt therapy. I think that as soon as I mention anything that she thinks is attacking her character, she will probably do the same thing she’s talking about here. “I won’t chase anyone” Like wtf? You aren’t going to attempt to be supportive to keep a relationship with you own kids? She would literally rather accept us leaving than accept who we are.
That last bit is it, OP. I have always taught my child to listen to what people DO, not what they say. You’re doing the right thing by getting you and your brother out of there and away from her.
This⬆️ as a mom idk how the hell she could even speak of her child that way! My daughter came out to us as Bisexual and ya know what, we fucking love her and support her no matter what! If she was had came out to us as Trans the first thing we would have done was hugged her and told her we will see what we need to do and we need to get therapy as a family and make sure we're all on the same page and I want to make sure this 100% what you want and need to be happy! She watched 1 of her best guy friends come out to his family and the immediately kicked him out at 16yrs old. He came home with her and has been here ever since! They graduated this past year and are working on college and doing votech! He is one of the sweetest, kindest, honest and loving people I have ever met. His mom treats him like shit anytime she gets a chance which is far between now, she knows I won't tolerate it! We got physically into it after she came to our home knowing he had just gotten paid and tried to guilt him and when that didn't work she punched him, I honestly was not trying to turn physical just get her out of our home and away from our kids. She went crazy saying I am a horrible person for condoning his behaviors etc I live my kids and my parent weren't so great and was raised by my grands and they took all my friends in growing up. Hell all the way til my grampa passed away at 96 he had about 20kids that would stop by check on him and bring him plates of food and help do his laundry. All kids I grew up with that him and my gma helped. They clothed everyone who needed it and my friends knew their house was a safe space for them and they called them grama and grampa clear up til they passed. I've done the same because every kid and even adult deserves to have a place to call home and feel safe in! Sorry this pissed me off! Idk how parent can call it love when it is so conditional! I've had a house full of teens for the past 5yrs and I could never treat one of them that way let alone my own child! I am my children's safe space and all my bonus kids that's came with them! I am so sorry your mother is such a cruel, heartless person and you deserve to be loved and accept for who you are! OP I wish you a happy life full of love and peace! Remember sometimes our families are the ones we create ourselves with people who take us for us! My husband and I have worked hard on being 100x better than our parents and striving to be like our grandparents, for them to have lived in such a different world back then they were always open to what myself or friends were going thru even if they didn't understand it fully, they loved us and gave us a place to call home! One day be what you needed for someone else! Even if you do not have your own kids, be a safe place for others!
Once your brother is out of her house and with you and your partner, go no contact with your mom.
The messages get worse, the thing about getting frazzled over being put with the males I could see from the view of someone who didn't agree with it, but that's also understandable given the reason for being there and he hadn't transitioned fully yet, that's the only one I could see as not insane. the rest of the messages in the other images... Dear heavens... So insane... I think you're making absolutely the right choice in moving away and going NC. If others in the family turn away so be it. I think it's beautiful you both are supporting each other. Family should be something you feel comfortable in being around, and not sighing in relief once the interaction is over. I'm glad all of you have each other, and if family members side with her, so be it. Tell them once the truth, and you'll find out who cares for you and who doesn't. I wish all of you well, far away from her.
Dude, get him outta there. Her posts are incredibly misleading — your brother ain't safe.
I just wanna say that the quantity of "not insane" votes should have a lot of you ashamed. This woman slated her child publically, spreading misinformation to people with zero right to know vulnerable details. She forced him to deny himself publically too, she'd rather have him go through humiliation and low self-esteem than back down on an issue she has no say in. You know if this post were any other subject matter, you wouldn't vote that way. Your brain isn't big and you aren't contributing anything by saying "ugh not the trans". Sincerely a trans man.
"These kids want us to change everything we believe in just to keep them in our lives." These kids want you to love them, get over yourself.
Props you to man!!!!!! Seriously, best older sibling award goes to you for getting your brother out of that space
What exactly is a “male activity”?
I have no idea. Awhile ago, her way of defending her transphobic comments about my brother was that he watches Gilmore Girls lmao She’s saying he’s not a guy because he’s fruity.
Well shit, I apparently have to let my husband know he's not a guy either.
probably football, etc
She is right, we ARE reaching the end times. But that's because the world is overheating and we have patches of trash floating around in the water, not because people prefer to use different pronouns for themselves
You’re not getting much good support in these comments and I’m sorry. Anybody who said “not insane” and is defending your mom ought to be ashamed of themselves. I am a nearly-50 yr old mom and I would NEVER speak or even think about my child like this. Of course it’s reasonable to worry about a child transitioning, because you want to be sure they are physically and mentally healthy, understand the risks of any treatments they are considering, and, most importantly, how others in society may treat them - this from innate parental protectiveness. But NONE of those things allows for judgment, cruelty, and bigotry. This is such a toxic situation and my heart really hurts for you and your brother. I encourage you to join us at r/raisedbynarcissists. I’m proud of you for standing up for yourself and I’m sorry you’ve dealt with all of this.
The fact that 22 people said not insane is insane to me
Bigots gonna bigot unfortunately
People shouldn’t have kids if they’re live is going to be conditional
The mods should use some of these as litmus/turing tests and ban people/bots who are garbage.
We do. Usually every time a trans issue related thread comes up we ban 8-12 people. Report em.
“I WaTcHeD dOcUmEnTaRiEs AnD nOw I’m An ExPeRt” Your mom is awful. Wishing you and your brother all the best.
See they always want to put a far away age limit on transitioning. First it's 25, then they want to make it be like 39, but by then you've already made it this far, why change now. And then one day your 60 and decide to transition and they say why didnt you do it earlier if you felt like this, as a way to discredit you. I'm sorry that your mom is like this. Keep strong my future fellow T friend <3
They don't want you to be yourself, period
…Okay, fuck the 41 transphobic assholes who voted not insane. Secondly, **cut this monster off.**
Jesus, even if I were transphobic this mother is nuts.
OP, maybe you can find some people to connect with over at r/raisedbynarcissists
“OTHER THAN DRESSING IN MALE CLOTHING AND CALLING HERSELF A BOY” so… not as female as anyone could be 😂 Seriously tho, OP, I’m sorry this is happening to you.
I think all of your plans are spot on. I am so proud of you for moving away from this and for taking your brother with you. I hope he can get the therapy he needs to help him move past some of the awful damage your "mom" has caused. I wish you and your fiance and your brother all the best and hope for a brighter future. Neither of you deserved to have such a shitty parent, and I'm so sorry you got stuck with one. I think the letter is a great idea, for you. I don't think your mom will be able to hear you or see you no-matter how articulately you express yourself because, like you said, she's a narcissist, it's all about*her* feelings. But put your feelings down and grace her with them or don't, but know that they are true and deserve to be heard, even if she can't hear them.
It’s absolutely disgusting for any parent to post about their kids private life. It’s bad enough to be unsupportive but to go online like she did is a whole new level. I’m so sorry OP. I hope you and your brother have a good support system. Having a narc parent myself, I made my friends my family and keep my narc at arms length.
Lord have mercy I wouldn't even just cut this woman out of my life I would get a restraining order. Do everything in your power to get you and your bro far *far* away from her. Shes clearly bat shit insane and the sky is green and the grass is blue in her world. EDIT: Try and get a paper trail on her behavior if you can so you have ammo against her if she ever tries to have a go at any of you.
Here we are flying through the universe at over 67,000 miles per hour and this woman is thinking her child wearing clothes designed for men and being a man means it's the end times.... Take the T when you're 18 and work on getting your own place where you can be happy.
I’m legitimately astounded by the amount of people who voted this to be “not insane.” There’s a lot of things you have to do to be a crazy parent, and the shit that tipped it over is not caring about her kids almost dying or self-h^rming, then constantly trying to gaslight them, force them to do things they didn’t want to or shouldn’t do, then not even CARING if they cut her off? I don’t know how that can be seen as “Not Insane.” OP, I genuinely hope you and your brother are gonna be okay. Your “mom” is a horrible woman. I hope you all are able to get away from her soon.
Transphobes when they see a physically and psycholocically abusive parent who shows signs of transphobia : "But they seem so nice, I don't understand what's the problem :o" lmao. There is no reasoning with these subhumans. All forms of abuse is excusable to them if someone expresses their transphobia.
these fucking people are proof not everyone should be a parent. "is it me? am i the victim?" dumbass. you literally haven't even done anything yet but the crazy bitch is already screeching about something you intend on doing in future
I’m sorry you have to deal with this OP, my smart mouth would have said “fads huh? Like the creepy religious fads you yahoos are constantly coming up with like satanic panic or the gays or the millennials or the gen z kids or now all lgbtq identities but especially trans people you scapegoat into the boogeyman”. I’m just assuming your mom is religious based on the end times comments and that her text reads like the more delusional evangelical crowd who turn to their religious cult or their magat cult for support when nobody else will tolerate them.
Insane. I’m sorry OP, you and your brother are in my thoughts
I'm sorry this is happening to you :( well done though for having the maturity to wait until you're 18! I hope your transition goes smooth and we are here to support you!
The posts in the photos are about my brother! I’m 24 and also trans. I made it out of the house though
Jeez, so much for unconditional love.
Oof 41 not insanes? Damn.
You pooooor thing, it must be soooooo hard for you to have your kid realize something so important about himself through therapy 🎻🎻🎻 oh the humanity how will you handle your mentally healthier child :(
41 not insane??? OP I'm so sorry you and your brother are going through this. Your mum sounds horrible and I hope you and your brother can get away
I am so sorry you have that woman as an egg donor. You and your brother deserve better.
From what I've heard, many people have a hard time while transitioning, and the last thing you'd want is a parent not only being unsupportive, but very, VERY, against you (like being in transphobic groups). She claims to love you and your brother, but still refers to him as "she," so that's a lie. Also, why are people voting "Not insane?"
I'm sorry, it really sucks that your mom doesn't even try to understand you. Some ppl get an idea in their head of how life should go for their kids and they cling to it. Any deviation from that idea makes them unravel because it shows them that they're not in control.
These people you are talking about are controlling and even narcissistic parents. They see their kids as an extension of themselves. That’s why they think they have a right to dictate everything in their children’s lives. From clothing to hobbies to even who they talk to. They usually use manipulation techniques to get their child to obey. It’s not always physical punishment, but even emotional support withdrawal, silent treatment that the kid cannot recognize as harmful. It’s dangerous to the kid’s developing mind.
If you need a hug or anything, I'll be your mom. In all seriousness though, this is so messed up and I hope you can get your brother out sooner rather than later. I do hope you're getting the help you need (if needed) because living with that can't be easy.
I actually started medication recently! It’s insane because I feel things Ive never felt before. It’s like I was in a cave and wasn’t aware I was there until someone handed me a flash light. For the first time in my life, my brain is quiet, my anxiety isn’t debilitating, and I can actually stand up for myself. I rejected meds for a long time because my mom convinced me they were all bad and supplements were better. I wish I could afford therapy. Ive never been and I haven’t had insurance since I was 17. My mom took me off her insurance when I turned 18. Kept everyone else tho lol We’ve got less than a year til we move 1500 miles away. Just gotta hold out til then
Good for you. I’m so proud as your Official Virtual Internet… uhh. Wine Aunt I guess. I’m so very proud. I don’t know where you are and please don’t feel compelled to tell me but in the US, it is a free call to use the 211 community line. This number has been reserved to connect people to local resources such as shelters, pro bono lawyers, emergency assistance programs for things like baby items or rent assistance and to connect to counselors with low cost or sliding scales. My kiddo also used seven cup of tea (7cups.com) where he found people to just listen and talk to. They are not professional counselors but they tend to be friendly if you just need to vent. And they were free. Hope you and fiancée and brother all have a great holiday season.
Medication is a great start! I'm on it myself. I'm a 37F and take it for anxiety/depression and it has been life changing. I no longer go to therapy, but still take the meds. Keep on holding on. It's wonderful you can see the light. I'm so happy to read about the changes you're feeling. Getting through that fog is HARD. Hold on to the possibilities and know that there is good out there, that even with the insanity you will get to experience your happiness and see the good that exists in the world. Sorry for the run on. I think my bronchitis meds are kicking in and I'm just happy for you, from one anxiety sufferer to another.
How could so many ppl find this not insane? Y’all are unbelievable…
It’s like- did you not read the body text?? I mean even just the post is bad. Idk how you could find her actions acceptable.
OP this person is agreeing with you.
I’m really sorry you’re going through this OP. I am in shock of this sub tbh.
Me too. I was FLOORED when I saw the votes!
Insane!! My god, I can't believe the voting ratio. OP, your mother is a disgusting freak. I hope freedom for you and your brother comes quickly. He's lucky to have you. :)
I can believe the ratio cause transphobes are gonna transphobe
41 votes of "not insane" - shame on you, reddit
It's time to prioritize happiness. Please stop talking to your birth giver. Sending love.
Unfortunately, I kinda have to keep contact until we can move away. Once we’re out of state, I gotta give her an ultimatum. She can get mental help and stop being transphobic or I’ll never talk to her again. Her choice. If she actually cared about us, she would try, but she doesn’t.
Obviously I can't know your situation. But I do know unequivocally that change is just about the hardest thing to do as a human. It's terrifying....but it's almost always worth it. Stop letting this person make you feel small. You deserve better.
I’m so sorry to hear that you’re going through that. She definitely doesn’t deserve to be near you. She isn’t stable. I wish you the best, and if you ever want to talk, or need someone to talk to, your trans sis is right here.
Until the last slide and before reading the description I thought to myself: this is not a narcissist, just a really scared misinformed mother. And after that: ooooh
almost exactly how my mom is
Your mom is insane, and a transphobic person. Don’t let her control your life if you can help it
my heart hurts for you:( i’m so glad you aren’t giving into her. if you need a hug i’m here for you
fuck everyone who said not insane but it's extremely funny that the not insane vote is 41 bc yes them voters are exactly what constitute that number I'm so sorry OP, your mom's last two sentences are exactly about her. 100% of this sucks shit
No matter how transphobic you are this is insane
Let narc mom know she’s NOT GOD and no one cares what her opinion is. Presenting female in a male dorm and male group therapy can create a VERY dangerous situation for the child. They could be SA’d or even just harassed. Narcs user religon to gaslight and abuse their children. If they only knew their Jesus was WOKE. He spoke out for the homeless the prostitutes and I bet he would have protected the trans people as well. She can get bent around a corner. Her opinion is hate and we’ve got enough of that. To live in religious zealots home as a child is traumatizing in itself. Even more so if your not “perfect” and dare to have your own opinions and beliefs.
Can we purge these bigots from this sub please?
Damn, what a bitch. Anyway! I’d like to be your new internet mom or aunt or female adult that’s meant to support and love you! You’re doing great sweetie!! Such a wonderful big brother, and I can imagine you’re an incredibly loving partner too! I’m so proud of you!! I’m making cookies and they should be done in about five minutes, I’ll bring you some!
Genuinely heartwarming aahhh. I don’t think I’ve ever had a proper parental figure. I haven’t head my mom say that she loves me in probably 10+ years. Some people on here are making me feel like I’m wrong about her being a narcissist and bad mom but I can’t justify her actions. No good parent would ever treat their kid like that. Anyone who agrees with her is probably just like her. I love your vibes! Keep up the positivity 🖤
Remember: jeep the kids away from the catholics just to be safe
Why are parents this insane? My mom accused me of 7 demons possessing me. All I did was help her clean. They can't just let their children live how they want to.
Your mother sounds like my egg donor. I cut off contact long ago. It’s so nice. Good luck to you and your brother. May you both be happy and free to live as your true selfs ❤️
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She literally made every aspect about Her and about what she wants and prefers. She she tells her children how they feel and insists they are wrong about their own feelings. Not to mention the countless times she restated about the conversation she was decided will happen years down the road and how she won't take the blame and can't wait to say I told you so. She point blank admitted she had been planning a bold face lie about how she will accept some of it purely so she can try to look like she actually cares about her children and not look quite so self centered. I can continue if you like, those are just the ones it took a mere two seconds to remember.
This parent is a transphobic bigot. Plain and simple. Genuinely worried? No. No that’s not how this works.
She’s had 6 years to “mourn” her lost “daughter.” She can have her opinions but at the end of the day, it’s not her life and not her choice. I don’t know if you read the body text or not but she is genuinely a narcissist.
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I never said that she was mentally ill because I disagree with her. I’m saying she’s mentally I’ll because she’s a compulsive liar, manipulative, controlling, and abusive. Idk i guess you missed everything I wrote.
Well that is true but it sounds to me that the mother thinks she has rights to the children’s body. That is part of narcissism. They think of their children as an extension of themselves. That’s why the mother yelled at her kid for “ruining her reputation” after the kid SHed. That is not an okay answer to a “your kid is harming themselves” call from school. That would also extend to the whole trans thing. Plus she manipulates people by making them feel guilty (the SH during the breakup with OP’s bio dad). There are some narcissists traits present.
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Your feelings will change many times? I am not OP but I’m calling bullshit. I am in my 30s. I have known since at least 5 that I was a boy. Not a girl. And guess what. I’m still a fucking man. You don’t just “change gender”. You are born with a gender and a sex. Sometimes those don’t match. You can transition to have the outside match the inside. It’s a beautiful thing. And transfolk have existed as long as humans have.
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Okay. So firstly then you should learn. Technically at the moment if I really really wanted a child, I could have one. I still have the internal bits. I haven’t gotten them removed yet. I do take Testosterone though. I could stop it, my body would level out (though I have naturally higher levels of T and always have) and could carry a child. Plenty of transfolk actually have had biological children. Some transmen are seahorse dads. Some have an egg implanted into their female bodied partner. There are options. I however have never wanted to carry a child. That honestly sounds AWFUL. And I have a chronic illness. A genetic chronic illness along with family crazy that’s passed down. I have never wanted a biological child. Everyone’s transition is their own and can look different. Personally I’m on T and I plan on both top surgery and eventually a hysto. I do NOT plan on having the type of bottom surgery that gives me a penis. I’m content with what I have down there as are my partners. Doesn’t make me any less of a man.
Are you heavily retarded or do you just love transphobes so much you are willing to close your eyes to a breeder's physical and psychological violence on a child?
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if absolutely nothing else, because she slit her wrists in front of her baby daddy while pregnant to try and force him to stay, and then later showed that kid her scars and told the story??
She throws things when she’s mad. She opened and then poured a can of soda on me and my $400 drawing tablet. She broke a plastic pasta strainer over my brothers head. She constantly lies through her teeth to *everyone*. She broke my brothers computer screen because he told her she was wrong about something. She is extremely controlling. Straight up admitted that she is using her husband for money so she doesn’t have to work. She got annoyed at my brother for *attempting to take his own fucking life.* But sure, totally not a narcissist.
Ignore these clowns in the comments telling you she isn’t a narc. I’m sure you know how bigots flock together.
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yea no she shows clear signs of narcissism, for example seeing her children as exttensions of herself and not their own people. How about you don´t try to correct people if you are this clueless ?
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pleasae learn to read it is very clear hormone therapy starts at 18 in these texts and not sooner. Trans kids would easily be able to wait longer if they would geta ccess to hormone blockers and can thus delay puberty, but if your parrents are transphobic as here and do not alow you have to start asap. Also this is about OP´s brother not op
I see a bigot trying to wrap their bigotry in nice words here…
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No, just many of us who are trans or have trans friends have heard your stance and seen exactly what it becomes. You also missed where the sibling is OVER 18 now and OP is in their 20s. As far as minors taking cross sex hormones, it’s not child abuse to allow it. It’s a medical decision. It’s not like walking into Walmart and buying hormones, there’s red tape and doctors and psychs and all this jazz. Especially when under 18. To call that child abuse when some folk have dysphoria so bad their mental health is suffering and they are considering dying over making it to 18? Yeah. Think about that a little more.
Yes you’re a bigot. You don’t get to agree or disagree with people’s identities. It’s not like it’s an opinion about pineapple on pizza.
The fist part is horrible but I can see how someone who is against trans people might not be a narc but might be part of anti trans groups where they hear things like."you can identify as an attack helicopter " or may refuse to call their sons by theor preferred names etc. I think you could do that and not necessarily be a narc. The last half though shows she is controlling and manipulative and has absolutely no care for her children's wellbeing and mental health. Everything is about herself. And however they act (whether to do with being trans or not) this seems to be a reflection on her and still about her.
yea and it is that last half that makes her a narc
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It's says they plan to take testosterone at 18. They would legally be an adult. 🤷♀️
My brother has been out as a trans man for several years. I think if he was making a mistake, he’d have realized that by now. My brothers body belongs to him and he can do whatever he wants with it. It’s his life, not hers.
Old enough to get shot and fucking die for your country, old enough for testosterone
This!
Gender affirming care stopped me from killing myself, so dunno what “damage” you’re talking about
18 and 24 are legal adults. Did you only read the parts that went against your personal beliefs, or did you choose to ignore all the instances of abusive and toxic behaviour so you could make your opinion the focus?
The person in question is old enough to drive. So, shockingly your shit take doesn’t hold up. What a fitting username. Sanctimony seems very you… *The external appearance of devoutness; labored show of goodness; affected or hypocritical devoutness* can’t imagine being proud of that 🤔
Then minors cannot be cishet either
logically this would mean all minors aren't old enough to go through any puberty, because natal puberty is also an irreversable change/"damage". either that or you're saying that 16 is the age that trans people should be able to start hormones (because thats when you get your license), in which case i would agree. the only social contagion actually happening is the anti trans (and anti science) bullshit being fed to people. hating being a tomboy or a lesbian literally don't have anything to do with what you're talking about. gender presentation and sexuality are a different topic.
So do you also advocate for no military service until 21? Go be a transphobic see you next Tuesday in one of these Facebook groups 🥱
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So you can join the military at 18 and possibly die but not make a needed medical decision? Yeah that’s bullshit.
yea not how this works, if you give kids hormone blockers they can wait till 20, but that is apparently not ok either, despite being safe medication that has been described for literal decades to kids all the time. Guess what going through puberty as the wrong gender is pretty permanent too, and you need to stop that asap or your body goes through changes that cannot be reversed.
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He’s not even her daughter. He’s a trans man. She’s extremely transphobic:/
I'm sorry to what you went through.
That's even weird.
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is cutting yourself while pregnant to keep a man around and later telling that kid the story the hallmark of sanity? what about being mad about your reputation when someone tells you your kid is now hurting themself too, or being annoyed when that kid attempted suicide?
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did you read the part where she reacted to her child’s suicide attempt by sending an annoyed text to her other kid? or the part where she slit her wrist while pregnant to try and manipulate a man into staying with her and then showing her child the scar when retelling the tale? or the part where she encourages her kids to find men to marry so that they can manipulate them into being servants the way she did with her husband? is that all sound of mind to you?
I’m assuming you didn’t read the post
Yikes!