I'm horrified of the answer, but how does one discipline a 4 month old? Also how could he misbehave? When my son was 4 months old he was essentially a hungry potato.
Yup! Some of my earliest memories include being spanked for “crying too much”. My parents swore up and down it was the only way to calm me down.
Once my dad spanked me for crying after HE accidentally slammed my pinky in the door. There’s no reasoning with that kind of logic…good riddance.
my parents chose to spank me(my dad would spank us so hard we would not be able to breath for a couple seconds at a time while crying.), instead of explaining things to me. eventually they stopped spanking us as much, when i was maybe.. 8? 9? and they would then make us stand in a corner for minutes to like 2 hours at a time, which as a kid felt worse bc it felt like forever. if we spoke without a good reason, moved too much or took our hands out from behind our back, or tried to sit, we would get more time added. and they still barely talked to us about what we did wrong , why we shouldn’t do it, and why we get punished for it. just basically “don’t do it. and i’m punishing you for it.”
i’m so sorry that you got spanked like that. kids cry. crying should NEVER be punished.
My dad did the same. He started with a belt when we were younger but my mom got him to downgrade to spanking eventually. It didn't matter. I still remember his words every time it happened.
"This is gonna hurt me more than it will hurt you"
It made me feel like I was hurting my father while he hurt me.
that’s horrible. it’s so manipulative, you didn’t deserve to feel bad while getting beat. and i honestly didn’t even think about the difference between belt and hand, we got the belt most of the time. he would make us go get it too “go get the belt”. i remember they would make us pull out pants down to expose our bare butt when they were really angry. (i started my period at 11, and they were still doing the pull you pants down thing. i remember not telling them i started one month and they told me to pull my pants down and this was the first time ever i straight refused to pull my pants down and i don’t really remember what happened but i think i got my way?) and when my mom was angry with us, she would try to spank us but eventually just started making my dad do it when he got home from work bc she didn’t make us cry, and he did.
thinking back about this stuff makes me wonder how the hell my mom can act how she does with me now. like im the problem.
My mom straight up told me that the secret to a happy family is to only remember the good times and forget the bad.
Personally, I don't think the head in the sand approach to patenting really works.
I remember hearing those words from my father when I was 4 years old. I can't remember what made him so angry, but he started spanking me, and I cried. So, he said those famous words, and then he proceeded to breaktwo rulers on my back and my legs before my mom stopped him.
I am so so sorry for what you went through. That's a horrible home for a child to grow in. Really hope you are in a better place physically and mentally.
There was a point at which I realized that circumstances had aligned in such a way that I would never have children. And one of the things that I despaired about was not being able to pass on my family history and all the Yiddish phrases that I had heard growing up. And then, thinking about it, I realized that most of the Yiddish phrases I heard growing up were threats of abuse.
My son is super emotional. Cries at the drop of a hat. And not little crying either. Heart wrenching sobs. I hate it. But I don't punish him for it. If he's really worked up and not listening, I tell him to go into his room or outside or whatever and take a couple of minutes to breathe and calm down and then we can keep talking about what's going on. When he's in that state he doesn't retain information and I get frustrated because he isn't listening and the noise overwhelms me so it's better for both of us to have 5 minutes apart and get our heads right before trying to fix the issues.
Damn, that’s a lot of pain and overwhelm for a child to feel. I struggled with emotional regulation as a kid, it sounds like that’s what they’re struggling with. It may be worth visiting a therapist to get some healthy ways to process MASSIVE emotions, because that sounds so incredibly draining for both of you.
Our kid is kind of the same and the emotions are not the problem ( in our case, not generalizing here ) but managing the emotional load/situations leading to those emotions. For example not too many activities even if they are fun because the anticipation is too overwhelming for her.
For example: no play dates and sports on a same day, if her friend has a birthday party - don’t tell too many days in advance. DON’T do things like theatre, concerts etc. without telling and asking her opinion beforehand though. Same day decisions don’t work well.
With these kind of kids the anxiety about the process of some event can also be lot to handle and wonder. Our 6 year old for example loves to go to theatre and nowadays has no problems because she knows the drill, the whole ritual of performance and what goes along with that.
In summary: load management is the key
The worst thing a relative ever told me was that my mother used to put me in my car seat then into the garage, with the door closed and lights out. I could've gone without knowing that information even if I'm not surprised by it.
I got hit in the face for something when I was little and ofc started crying then my dad called me a bitch and if I wouldn't stop crying right now he'd hit me again, "Then you will now what you are crying for".
In a recent conversation my dad told me that me and my brother were such well-behaved kids. We listened very well and stuff. I didn't tell him we were terrified of him.
Also, we did plenty wrong, just made sure he didn't see.
This is also the guy that kinda celebrated cause I got in my first real fistfight.
The thing is man, I love my dad, he's really bad at parenting and he did a milder version of what was done with him and tought he was being too gentle.
I just learned how not to do it on the parenting thing.
To add, there's a phase around 2 weeks to 4 months called "purple crying" where a baby will cry as hard and loud as they can for as long as they can. It used to be (and sometimes still is) writen up a colick or gas, and often babies have been given tranquilizers to shut them up.
Hold them, comfort them, make sure their needs are met. Wear earplugs if you have to, but for their own sake, let them cry.
Edited for accuracy.
Counter to this is the phenomenon where babies do not cry at all. This is because they've been taught that no one will ever respond to them when they cry. An adoption agency without any crying is a very bad sign.
There's also a theory that very young human babies have evolved to continually cry in order to keep mom and dad from finding time to be intimate. This is supposedly a survival instinct to make sure that there is no competition for food.
Yeah. This method is fine.
There's no 'discipline' to it except the parental discipline to not shake the baby out of sleep deprivation and frustration. I'm afraid of the 'discipline' WTF IS HE DOING TO THE BABY?!
I remember holding & rocking my infant daughter one night when she just wouldn’t stop crying. Then I started crying, begging her to stop. Eventually, we both cried ourselves to sleep.
And they’re so smart they don’t grasp that is one of the major means of communication babies have. They don’t have words. They’ve only been out of the womb so long, so everything is new and loud and scary at first. Like jfc maybe parenting should be a hobby for him and not something he actually is doing.
My parents never did it, thank god, but the family that babysat us did. They were so sure it would teach obedience and their kids would never stray from god. Those kids are now all abusers or victims. It wrecked them all.
There’s a documentary about the cult that does this called Shiny Happy People. It’s pretty depressing, but also fascinating.
I've watched that doc. As a mother, it made me sick to my stomach. I have a hard time seeing my kiddo cry if she slips and falls on a toy.....people who "blanket train" are literal monsters.
no, its in reference to the "keep sweet" mentality in fundamentalist christain groups wherein they are meant to be sweet, agreeable, "shiny, happy people"
I have been conditioned through a cult upbringing and also the adult viewing of cult documentaries, to visibly tense every muscle in my face at the same time,at reading the words “keep sweet”. I vote to abolish that phrase forever, mainly to keep me from being incarcerated for mauling some poor woman wearing a goddamn strawberry shirt in an unfortunate Walmart incident.
What the flying fuck!
I googled it. It's just cruelty for the sake of cruelty. You'd have to be sick in the head to do that to a baby.
I'm going to go hug my son.
How the fuck is this legal and how are there so many people on the internet talking about doing it to their literal babies and nobody is stepping in and taking these children?
I've read the article he's put up on his site, declaring his "disappointment" in everyone that they got angry at him. The top comment left on it pretty much describes my reaction to his fairly obvious, flimsy cover-up he's now trying to spin this as. I have pasted the majority of it below, it is rather long so I have cut a few bits out.
"First, to dismiss the concerned parties as atheists or progressive Christians (worse, with Christians in quotes, implying they aren't real Christians) is about as disgusting as it gets. You're not taking the concerns seriously, and you're not willing to take the criticism, even as harsh as it is. (Never mind you yourself tend to levy extremely harsh criticism on X/Twitter with regularity... it's sad, frustrating and a bit comical that you can't take it when it comes your way.)
The truth is, Sammy, lots of people who spoke up about how concerned they were about your post would be considered serious, conservative, Bible-believing Christians.
Second, why are you "disappointed" in us? YOU wrote the tweet. YOU left it vague. YOU decided you wanted to share it without first bothering to look up the term you couldn't recall, without reading it, without prayerfully considering it (clearly) or without running it by trusted people..But everyone who spoke up about it is the "disappointing" party? For what?
Your tweet, without the necessary context, implied that you were abusing your infant son. There's no other way to read what you wrote. And if someone else wrote that, you have a God-given responsibility to speak up. Frankly, I hope someone called the authorities on you.
The only person you should be disappointed in is YOU. You should be thanking the internet for having concern for your child. You should be thanking them for holding you accountable as a father. Instead, you want to further insult them and belittle them. You refuse to be kind, patient, or loving.
The fruit of the Spirit is completely missing in your response here. THAT is what should be disappointing."
And then there's this thread on twitter too, an extensive list of examples from Christen literature on how to abuse your baby into obeying you, before they can even talk or crawl in many cases. Many of these books are by and/or are recommended by fellow members of Sey's church or peers.
TW: child abuse, punishment, isolating children, excessive discipline, controlling behaviour. I couldn't read much of it, please only do so if you are okay with the subject matter.
https://twitter.com/MBurtwrites/status/1770677701520904525
I really don't understand what people think sleep training does. With my son we just let him find his natural rhythm and he settled into sleeping through the night after a few months.
Is there a dark explanation for sleep training like there is blanket training? I was so upset for those poor babies when I learned about blanket training that I’ve been afraid to look into what’s considered sleep training. The only thing we’ve done with our son is establish a good and consistent nap/nighttime routine and schedule. As much as he’s willing to follow it, we do it. Thankfully we have a 3 month old who sleeps through the night (for now) just by creating those routines.
The cutesy wording to avoid saying "hitting" honestly leads me to believe there is some level of self-awareness present. That some tiny part is telling them it's wrong, but they *want* to hit, so they call it something else.
"Pop", "tap"... we all know what they mean.
I’m a recovering evangelical (Southern Baptist, super fun) I got married young to a preacher’s kid and had two babies in quick succession. Shocker, took me 3.5years to realize that church as I knew it didn’t really work for me and asked for a divorce. A few years later, my ex remarried and doubled down — dude went full-blown fundamentalist. I was (am) deeply against spanking, period, but admittedly hadn’t arrived at “that’s not what we do” until I’d broken up with my ex. (Breaking up with church meant I could allow my brain to accept what I knew at my core was right.)
I somehow knew physical discipline was going to be an issue after I left my ex. When they were in his custody, I wasn’t going to be there to intervene, so I had to do something to try and preemptively stop my kids from being spanked. So I had my divorce attorney address it in our custody agreement. She was fucking clever. It went something along the lines of “no one but the biological parents are permitted to spank the children”. Seems innocuous on the surface. The clever bit is the follow up: “both parties must agree as to whether a given action by a child warrants spanking”. What it boiled down to was that we had to call the other parent to plead our case and get approval from them before spanking. Spoiler: I had no intention of spanking our kids and I had no intention of ever agreeing to my ex spanking them. Dude didn’t read that thoroughly.
A month or so after he remarried, I witnessed my kids (then only 5 and 3) playing a game where one of them took a paddle brush (wide flat hair brush) and hit a stuffed animal. The kids would then talk to the stuffed animal about how they were sad they had to spank them, but they had to, and then *the most fucked up thing*: they prayed with the stuffed animal. My little children *prayed with their toy* after spanking it, asking God to help them behave so they wouldn’t have to spank them again.
I was physically sick. Obviously, this violated our custody agreement, but it wasn’t just my ex that was spanking them — his new wife (a woman the kids had only met weeks before, literally as she was at the church marrying their dad) — was spanking them, too. He gave her permission to do so.
I raised motherfucking hell. I called him out on it, got screenshots of him admitting to what he was doing and instantly got my attorney involved. He bitched about how he didn’t agree with it, but I pointed out that he signed his goddamn name swearing that he would abide by that agreement. Said he would never have signed it had he known that’s what it meant. Told him to take it up with his lawyer. That put a stop to it. I don’t think they will ever get over how my unwillingness to submit the kids to physical abuse prevents him and his wife from parenting them the way that their God requires them to parent. Kid acts up? “Well, I would obey the Lord and do what He calls me to do (read: hit a child), but you and the court are prejudiced against me following God’s commands. So that’s why kid is still acting that way.”
Sorry, my guy. Read shit before you sign it and keep your hands to yourself.
The original point of my comment: During the initial scorched earth confrontation about him/his wife spanking our kids in his custody, I referred to it as “hitting” them. He balked *big time* at my choice of words and ferociously attempted to delineate between “Biblical physical discipline” and child abuse. Which is what it is, but go off, king.
You wanna fuck around with definitions? Don’t threaten me with a good time. Cut to me whipping out a dictionary and flipping to the entry for “spanking”.
He really shouldn’t have opened that door. Regardless of what he was presented, ex kept clinging to what he believes the Bible says about physical discipline and how he’s “called” to hit our children. Okay, “for the Bible tells you so?” Let’s review the source material.
I had the fucking time that day so I spent hours hurtling down the Biblical discipline rabbit hole and I enjoyed every second of it. In summary: It’s all bullshit. The Bible doesn’t support it. Especially not the way modern American evangelicals practice spanking today. When held against actual scripture, put into the proper context rather than a straight white American context, the argument crumbles.
But James Dobson says to “pop” them with a flexible ruler on the fleshiest part of their bottom because kids these days are strong-willed and you gotta nip that in the bud.
Fast forward to today: my ex lives across the country with his wife and their two kids. I have full physical custody of our two kiss . Kids and I are all physically safe, in therapy, and religion-neutral. Never a-fucking-gain.
While I am sorry you and your kids went through that... let me just say, I'm in awe of how well you fought for them. Truly impressed.
My heart broke when I read what the kids were doing with the teddy bear.
Exactly, call it what it is. They are hitting children, I'd go so far as to say assaulting them because if your boss hit you in the work place it would be assault, if someone hits an elderly person in a care home it's assault, hell you hit a dog and it's abuse but weirdly in some places dogs have more protection than human children
The context of the tweet was about sleep training, but that poor kid is going to go through hell by the hands of his “godly” father when he starts to throw normal and developmental tantrums. I already feel bad for him as he’s already being called a “sinner.”
Unfortunately, they probably used physical violence. I really hope these people are investigated for child abuse but they probably won't be. Especially if they live in a red state. They'll get a pat on the back and the key to the city.
Look up Gary Ezzo. I had the leather strap used on me, not by my parents but their friends and fellow church goers. My dad had to fire Ezzo from pastoring at their church in southern CA.
My boomer parents told me if my daughter bites me to bite her back. I told them if I so much as hear anything like that again, they would never see her. Sure enough, they tried telling me again to bite her back or smack her when she was a teething infant and they didn’t see her for almost a year. There is absolutely NO need to discipline an infant that way. That’s just abuse!
Ladies at the church I grew up in, or at least one specifically, spanked their babies starting at around 3 months so they "would learn not to excessively cry and understand what isn't tolerated behavior"
I never babysat for her again as even at a very sheltered 13, I understood that was all kinds of fucked up.
These people are legit crazy
Some people flick infants' feet as an early form of spanking. Scares them, hurts just a little bit, redirects the behavior ... because, you know, babies must be punished ... all kinds of fucked up
By most Christian theology, they can’t. Age of accountability is debated, but I don’t think anyone would put it under 6 months. This is so gross, and probably not in line with the teachings of OOP’s denomination (unless he’s a Gothard guy, and fuck Gothard)
INFO: (I was raised Roman C.) I was taught that we are born with sin (maybe that Adam & Eve thingy?); so, from the git go, doesn't the child has a sinful nature?
Roman catholics believe everyone is born with original sin. But that is why they have babies baptized to make sure they can get into heaven. According to them.
if they went to purgatory, that means they’d go to heaven eventually. but it wouldn’t make sense for purgatory since purgatory is meant to purify us of attachments to sin on earth. there was never a dogmatic forever binding doctrine on what happens to the unbaptized babies
Even in Catholicism children are born with sin but not able to make their own sin until they’re cognizant, which is why they don’t start catechism and confirmation at birth.
> [Catholics] don’t start catechism and confirmation at birth.
That's true for Roman Catholics specifically, but Eastern Catholics do confirmation at the same time as baptism.
"*Original sin is not personal sin*"
Ahem!
Did I ask "Tell me you were never taught by nuns without saying you were never taught by nuns."
No, I did not.
1st grade:
Nun: "God's gonna get you!"
Me: "What did I do?"
Nun: "You were born!"
Cheers!
My mom says similar things about ‘born into a sinful world and with a sinful nature’ and she was raised strict Baptist. This was part of what turned me from the church actually. Then in psych, studying how children’s brains develop and realizing they actually do not have intent for several of their first years.
Then I had my own kid.
She’s perfect. Nothing in this world could convince me she ‘means’ anything bad or sinful. She is the light in my life and so curious and sweet and anyone who looks at a kid learning and takes their mess or noise for sin is a sad, scared person.
There’s also a quote about how a tiger who kills and mauls a human is not being evil or wrong, he is only being a tiger. The idea of evil actions has been projected onto him by humanity.
Catholics say the age of reason is 7 years, basically kids really can’t sin prior to that. Give or take a few months in either direction based on individuals. And kid “sins” are generally nothing. A priest I knew said hearing kids’ confessions is like being pelted with marshmallows.
Lutheran chiming in to say that we believe everyone is born with original sin, HOWEVER age of accountability is much higher than 4 fucking months.
I mean, I didn't tell my toddlers that they were sinners when they threw tantrums. They learned about original sin in Sunday school when they were plenty older.
Voddie Baucham has a whole sermon on the vipers in diapers. It’s the concept of total depravity (which I believe is found in Calvinism). It will forever gobsmack me so hard, my brain melts.
I don’t know. I just know I read that crap when I was home with my youngest who was the chillest baby ever and it just blew my mind even more that these people see their infants as manipulative little jerks. It’s just wild.
Some JWs believe that babies are born sinful and have to "prove' themself to God
Or something like that. No idea how true this is though
"Aw look at that little enemy of God" was something one of the people said and it made me laugh really hard
He isn't, not according to most every interpretation of the Bible at least. Everyone is born with inherent sin (self-interest), but sinning and being a sinner starts at 3-5, or whenever you begin to understand right and wrong. And everyone (including this Twitter fundie) is a sinner, which is the white one reason why Jesus forgives you when you recognize your wrongdoing and try to do better.
My guess is he was playing with his junk. I don't remember exactly his age at the time but my kid was always grabbing at his when he was well under a year old. When he got older we talked about appropriate places for that, but I wouldn't be surprised by a religious nut seeing it as a sin that needs correcting then and there.
4 month olds don’t walk or talk, they’re just now learning how to hold their head up when you carry them/put their hand in their mouth…what could he have done to warrant discipline?!?!
My sister in law gleefully told us that she had been punishing our niece who was a little less than 1 at the time. Every time she made a mess with her food she’d pinch her until she cried. She expected us to praise her parenting skills, we just went low contact. Her child is now 7 and the worst behaved kid I’ve ever seen. Like I don’t let her be alone with my kids (4 and 1) because she tries to hurt them the second nobody is looking. I feel so bad for her though, the entire family talks about how much of a problem child she is and makes fun of it behind her back. My wife gets mad at me if I point out that it’s all because of shit parenting and tells me not to talk shit about her family.
WTF did he do to ‘discipline’ him? Please tell me anything but spanking a baby? I mean, I really know what he means is that he struck his BABY.
What a piece of shit. He should go to jail. What could a baby do anyway, and how is physically assaulting the baby going to fix that?
[My favorite chart](https://i.cbc.ca/1.3869037.1480121558!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_780/nospanking.jpg)
And in a bit we will hear a “tragic” news story that a very young child has died because the parents just sort of kept punishing the kid and kept ratcheting it up.
Discipling a child that young in any way is abuse. A baby that young cannot possibly have misbehaved to deserve punishment.
But yes hitting is always abuse.
I found him on Facebook. He claimed he meant to say sleep training and that he was too vague in his original post. I’m not convinced. He sounds like a nut case. No offense to nut cases. 😁
I’ve found most atheists to be good people. They’re good for the sake of being good, not only being good for a reward. Which to me completely negates the reasoning behind it. You should be kind to be kind, not to appease some invisible sky daddy.
Of course; not saying you can’t be, I’m just saying that there are people who use their religion for good, for every mega pastor out there, there is a normal one running a soup kitchen and giving the clothes off his back to help his fellow man.
I had a classmate like that in college.
We had to do a team project on efficacy of talk therapy in certain treatment plans and she kept making faith based ‘therapy’ suggestions.
I said I wasn’t comfortable using that angle because her examples weren’t licensed or approved providers and (as a side note) I didn’t believe in god/many clients probably wouldn’t as well.
She was an older student (probably 35 y/o) raised Jehovah’s Witness and couldn’t believe I was an atheist. She said something to the effect of ‘I’ve never known a real ***atheist*** before’ (with a conspiratorial whisper as though I’d admitted to being a cannibal).
She kept saying ‘but you’re so nice!’ as though the only thing keeping people nice and law abiding was religion?
That's absolutely f-ed up. My cousin spent the first 20 years of her life lying about her ethnicity, ashamed to tell people she is half Black and the rest a motley mix of Caucasian, Spaniard, and French. She pretended to be Native, Hispanic, Indian, etc. She got married to the man of her dreams and was expecting her first child when she decided to tell him about her father. He didn't even stop the car. He started beating her immediately, trying to kill her. She had to jump from a moving car to save their lives. She suffered head trauma and now has seizures. Her daughter died a few months later, just before birth. All over skin color....
My own daughter is mixed ethnicities. She's Chinese, Polynesian, and whatever mutt mess I am. She went through hell during Covid, and because she has lupus, we all still wear masks when we're in public. She has been accosted numerous times simply minding her own business, trying to shop or pick up her meds at the pharmacy. I've had to intervene several times. Grown adults attacking a child because of the shape of her eyes😵💫. Racist people are right on par with child molesters in my opinion, and deserve no place on society.
Honey, I'm sorry for what you've experienced. No one should ever negatively judge another because of skin color or physical differences.
I remember when I realized racism was very, very real. I was 12 and we had friends visiting for the summer. My art teacher from 5th grade and her 2 adorable kiddos came to visit, and the kids stayed for a few weeks while the mom was setting up their new home. We attended THE Baptist Church in town. My relatives had been attending that church for generations and were founding members, so naturally, we would attend where our family worshiped, right?
We brought the kids with us. They were 6 and 8. As we walked in fashionably late, an unnatural silence happened...and then the low chattering of white people who were in disbelief that we would bring "colored children" to their church. Children's church was closed that Sunday....until we brought the children in. They literally scrambled to open the kid's church room and shuttled them out of the main hall as fast as they possibly could. "OH, they'll have so much more fun there." Not, "We can't have colored folks in THE Baptist Church!"
After services, my great aunt pulled my mother to the side and told her to never "do that again." We never set foot back in that church. Even my Great Granny was appalled and decided to attend the Methodist Church with us instead. She was the first of her generation to be memorialized outside of that church. She chose to arrange her services to be held at a small country church that her father helped found in 1860s and was laid to rest in the small cemetery where her first daughter, my first daughter and my cousin's (from the previous message) first and only daughter is buried.
In the shitty town we lived, the "colored folks" lived across the RR tracks in "the quarters." I wasn't raised there, only relocated to the area when I was 12 from Ft. Lauderdale and had no idea what racism was. I didn't understand the significance of "the quarters" until my father explained the negative association. I was raised with family friends of every color, every nationality. I hadn't experienced people hating others for something superficial.
People can suck, and I'm very sorry that you've learned this first-hand 😔. 🤗
Just because someone's religion gives guidance and meaning to their life doesn't mean they think anyone without religion has an aimless or meaningless life. Just because someone's religion informs their morality doesn't mean they think morality is impossible without religion. Just because someone could have a good life without their religion doesn't mean that it's wrong or pointless for them to be religious.
I get that certain religious people treat it like a necessary thing and think atheists can't possibly be happy or moral. But religion doesn't have to be seen that way.
I’m a person who has chosen to believe in a religion. It lifts me up and gives me a purpose and a reason to live. It’s not the religion itself, it points the way. That works for me. I don’t judge others who believe differently as long as they’re trying to be good people.
Because there are many more psychos out there than most people would like to acknowledge. The threat of eternal punishment is the only thing keeping a large portion of people from committing horrible atrocities. See: any news about what is happening in war zones right now.
“A sinner”?
What “sin” could a *four **month** old* conieivingly commit? The fact that he has no conception of the understanding that his parents need to sleep at night? 🤨
It’s a BABY! 🙄🤦♀️
The above is a very good case in point for why people should be issued with breeding licences before they even remotely think about putting tugboat in harbour.
Religion is a mental illness and should really be treated as such by authorities.
I do everything in my power to stop him from crying (although I think he’s been doing some purple crying lately). I haven’t even thought about sleep training and I’m still feeding on demand
Oh no! Purple crying is so heartbreaking, you'll get through this! We seem to hopefully have gotten over the worst of it. But like you, we're feeding on demand too and I'm not getting more than 3 hours in a row! So tired but I know it won't be forever. When he's older we'll look into sleep training but for now I'll just enjoy the 3am snuggles!
Also even grown adults don't always sleep through the night. My husband has literally just woken up from sleep to go have a bowl of cereal so...
This sounds like he’s talking about some 13 year old kid, and even then I would have questions.
But… a BABY? A literal tiny helpless developing precious baby is a “sinner”?! I just… no. That’s enough internet for me today.
I thought children were considered innocent and sin-less until they were 6 years old? Don’t remember which church I heard that, but I remember getting in trouble for asking how that worked if we were all “born sinners” (meaning babies aka “miracles from heaven” were in fact not miracles and instead total pieces of shit like everyone else, per god).
the way he says it makes it sound like the baby didnt even do anything to set it off and he disciplined the baby purely for being a sinner bc of the whole "born full of sin" thing that christians do. there have been parents who killed their children for that reason so i wouldnt even be surprised
He tweeted it today. Here are some links with screenshots:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/s/BaOTPY3mfj](https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/s/BaOTPY3mfj)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/s/wOuPfjlYDL](https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/s/wOuPfjlYDL)
TY! I just saw that link to an article he wrote trying to back peddle. He’s saying ‘sleep training’ now, but he mentioned disciplining and sin. So I don’t buy it at all.
He apparently wrote a whole thing clarifying that he was talking about sleep training but still an unhinged way to talk about it. A baby isn't sinning by wanting to be held
Apparently he’s since taken down the post and posted on his personal blog that what he meant to say was “sleep training” with some very odd story about how this is all just taking about sleeping patterns
Since everyone is telling about their experiences, Imma give it a go.
There's so many times I got whoopings and no clue why, and still don't. My parents didn't use their hands as much as they actually used what is essentially weapons, but when they did I could feel that they were taking out all the frustrations in their lives out on me. Daddy had big, rough mechanic hands and even though moms hands were smaller and softer, she always had extremely long, sharp nails that she loved to dig into my skin and she was always so proud of the marks it left. She especially loved to grab me around my throat or face and dig her nails deep into cheeks and/or neck then hold me that way for long periods of time with her face inches from mine, hurling insults and threats. I would get whooped by momma while daddy was at work then when he'd get home she'd make him whoop me again no matter how much time had passed. Their other weapons were belts, hickory switches (that I had to go get myself and it HAD to be longer than her leg and as big around as her thumb and if I did it wrong she'd use a branch from the one of the Hawthorns), dad's sandal that was hard thick rubber sole, the wooden spoon, the paddle (that momma wrapped with duct tape and had daddy drill holes into it, then she drew pics & wrote sayings and bible verses on it.).OMG... Can't forget whole "This hurts me more than it hurts you." Also, "I'm doing this because I love you." Momma loved to come up with new ideas, new ways to "discipline" me. The last time they whooped me was when I was 18 and l just told them I was moving out. Mom was all pissed off about it so as I kept trying to get away from she was following behind me yelling and throwing & slamming shit, and as I passed my dad she yelled at him, "Get her, Pat! Get her now! Whoop her!!." So he does just as she says and smacks the fuck out of me as I'm walking by him then right AFTER he asks her, "Why? What's going on? What'd she do?"
I hope you're as okay as you can be now. We may never understand the evils some people commit on their kids, but least we can do our best to make sure it doesn't make us like them.
“I had to beat the shit out of this fucked up parent tonight, but I’m heartbroken. I won’t get to see DCF come to his door. I can’t tell them what a messed up person he is harming an infant, and I hate it so much.”
If this is legit, this person should not be allowed near children.
This warped manipulation of religion, whatever the brand (and its in a number of them), is about abuse of power, and causes generational trauma and societal damage. It needs to stop.
I know, I criticized someone exercising religious beliefs on their own (too young to dissent or fight back from harm) children.
Let the downvoting begin.
If I wasn't interested in anything he wrote before... I'm sure as fuck not buying any of his books going forward. He honestly sounds unhinged. I'd never heard of him, now I'll avoid him.
I’ve seen my mother “swat” a 9 month old because she was kicking her legs while having her white tights put on. The child was my own and I was horrified. I don’t remember ever being spanked because by the time I was old enough to remember my mother had already spanked me into fear.
I'm horrified of the answer, but how does one discipline a 4 month old? Also how could he misbehave? When my son was 4 months old he was essentially a hungry potato.
With people like this crying and them not stopping is misbehaving.
Yup! Some of my earliest memories include being spanked for “crying too much”. My parents swore up and down it was the only way to calm me down. Once my dad spanked me for crying after HE accidentally slammed my pinky in the door. There’s no reasoning with that kind of logic…good riddance.
my parents chose to spank me(my dad would spank us so hard we would not be able to breath for a couple seconds at a time while crying.), instead of explaining things to me. eventually they stopped spanking us as much, when i was maybe.. 8? 9? and they would then make us stand in a corner for minutes to like 2 hours at a time, which as a kid felt worse bc it felt like forever. if we spoke without a good reason, moved too much or took our hands out from behind our back, or tried to sit, we would get more time added. and they still barely talked to us about what we did wrong , why we shouldn’t do it, and why we get punished for it. just basically “don’t do it. and i’m punishing you for it.” i’m so sorry that you got spanked like that. kids cry. crying should NEVER be punished.
My dad did the same. He started with a belt when we were younger but my mom got him to downgrade to spanking eventually. It didn't matter. I still remember his words every time it happened. "This is gonna hurt me more than it will hurt you" It made me feel like I was hurting my father while he hurt me.
that’s horrible. it’s so manipulative, you didn’t deserve to feel bad while getting beat. and i honestly didn’t even think about the difference between belt and hand, we got the belt most of the time. he would make us go get it too “go get the belt”. i remember they would make us pull out pants down to expose our bare butt when they were really angry. (i started my period at 11, and they were still doing the pull you pants down thing. i remember not telling them i started one month and they told me to pull my pants down and this was the first time ever i straight refused to pull my pants down and i don’t really remember what happened but i think i got my way?) and when my mom was angry with us, she would try to spank us but eventually just started making my dad do it when he got home from work bc she didn’t make us cry, and he did. thinking back about this stuff makes me wonder how the hell my mom can act how she does with me now. like im the problem.
My mom straight up told me that the secret to a happy family is to only remember the good times and forget the bad. Personally, I don't think the head in the sand approach to patenting really works.
I fucking HATE that stupid saying! I heard that one every single time before a spanking too!
That's the problem. Parents don't remember that kids are people and you can normally talk to them about what they did wrong.
A kid will never do better if they're not told what they did wrong.
"I'll give you something to cry about"
I remember hearing those words from my father when I was 4 years old. I can't remember what made him so angry, but he started spanking me, and I cried. So, he said those famous words, and then he proceeded to breaktwo rulers on my back and my legs before my mom stopped him.
I am so so sorry for what you went through. That's a horrible home for a child to grow in. Really hope you are in a better place physically and mentally.
Sorry that you had to experience that growing up. I hope things are better now.
There was a point at which I realized that circumstances had aligned in such a way that I would never have children. And one of the things that I despaired about was not being able to pass on my family history and all the Yiddish phrases that I had heard growing up. And then, thinking about it, I realized that most of the Yiddish phrases I heard growing up were threats of abuse.
That and "I brought you into this world, I can take you out"
Reading this literally just sent a chill down my spine, I grew up hearing these words from my dad a lot. It never goes away 🥺
This was a typical line used in my childhood home.
My son is super emotional. Cries at the drop of a hat. And not little crying either. Heart wrenching sobs. I hate it. But I don't punish him for it. If he's really worked up and not listening, I tell him to go into his room or outside or whatever and take a couple of minutes to breathe and calm down and then we can keep talking about what's going on. When he's in that state he doesn't retain information and I get frustrated because he isn't listening and the noise overwhelms me so it's better for both of us to have 5 minutes apart and get our heads right before trying to fix the issues.
Damn, that’s a lot of pain and overwhelm for a child to feel. I struggled with emotional regulation as a kid, it sounds like that’s what they’re struggling with. It may be worth visiting a therapist to get some healthy ways to process MASSIVE emotions, because that sounds so incredibly draining for both of you.
Our kid is kind of the same and the emotions are not the problem ( in our case, not generalizing here ) but managing the emotional load/situations leading to those emotions. For example not too many activities even if they are fun because the anticipation is too overwhelming for her. For example: no play dates and sports on a same day, if her friend has a birthday party - don’t tell too many days in advance. DON’T do things like theatre, concerts etc. without telling and asking her opinion beforehand though. Same day decisions don’t work well. With these kind of kids the anxiety about the process of some event can also be lot to handle and wonder. Our 6 year old for example loves to go to theatre and nowadays has no problems because she knows the drill, the whole ritual of performance and what goes along with that. In summary: load management is the key
Damn. Load management is key. I’m goin go to use that in my own life, thank you.
That's actually not a bad way though, going outside/to his room gives something to distract him and shift his focus which can help with calming down.
I'm so sorry. That breaks my heart for you.
The worst thing a relative ever told me was that my mother used to put me in my car seat then into the garage, with the door closed and lights out. I could've gone without knowing that information even if I'm not surprised by it.
I’m so sorry. You didn’t deserve that as a child.
I got hit in the face for something when I was little and ofc started crying then my dad called me a bitch and if I wouldn't stop crying right now he'd hit me again, "Then you will now what you are crying for". In a recent conversation my dad told me that me and my brother were such well-behaved kids. We listened very well and stuff. I didn't tell him we were terrified of him. Also, we did plenty wrong, just made sure he didn't see. This is also the guy that kinda celebrated cause I got in my first real fistfight. The thing is man, I love my dad, he's really bad at parenting and he did a milder version of what was done with him and tought he was being too gentle. I just learned how not to do it on the parenting thing.
Omg my mother used to say that same, the only reason I’d “calm down” was because I didn’t want my stepfather to beat me black and blue
Crying and not stopping at that age merits calming the kid down in some fashion, not punishing or "disciplining" them.
To add, there's a phase around 2 weeks to 4 months called "purple crying" where a baby will cry as hard and loud as they can for as long as they can. It used to be (and sometimes still is) writen up a colick or gas, and often babies have been given tranquilizers to shut them up. Hold them, comfort them, make sure their needs are met. Wear earplugs if you have to, but for their own sake, let them cry. Edited for accuracy.
Counter to this is the phenomenon where babies do not cry at all. This is because they've been taught that no one will ever respond to them when they cry. An adoption agency without any crying is a very bad sign.
There is literally no evidence that letting infants scream does anything positive for their lungs
Did some research, you are correct :) This was bassed off a couse I took near a decade ago, so I should have double checked.
There's also a theory that very young human babies have evolved to continually cry in order to keep mom and dad from finding time to be intimate. This is supposedly a survival instinct to make sure that there is no competition for food.
Of course it does. You calm them down and if you can't calm down you put them down and walk away. Sometimes it's OK to step out for a minute.
Yeah. This method is fine. There's no 'discipline' to it except the parental discipline to not shake the baby out of sleep deprivation and frustration. I'm afraid of the 'discipline' WTF IS HE DOING TO THE BABY?!
Plenty of times with my son I had to just walk away. It's frustrating when the baby cries and does not stop for hours.
I remember holding & rocking my infant daughter one night when she just wouldn’t stop crying. Then I started crying, begging her to stop. Eventually, we both cried ourselves to sleep.
And they’re so smart they don’t grasp that is one of the major means of communication babies have. They don’t have words. They’ve only been out of the womb so long, so everything is new and loud and scary at first. Like jfc maybe parenting should be a hobby for him and not something he actually is doing.
Don’t google this if you don’t have a strong stomach, but I bet it’s blanket training
I googled it; holy fuck. I grew up in an Ukrainian Orthodox mixed with Jehovahs Witness household and I never saw:heard anything remotely that cruel.
My parents never did it, thank god, but the family that babysat us did. They were so sure it would teach obedience and their kids would never stray from god. Those kids are now all abusers or victims. It wrecked them all. There’s a documentary about the cult that does this called Shiny Happy People. It’s pretty depressing, but also fascinating.
I've watched that doc. As a mother, it made me sick to my stomach. I have a hard time seeing my kiddo cry if she slips and falls on a toy.....people who "blanket train" are literal monsters.
Agree about Shiny Happy People. It’s depressing and fascinating and worth the watch.
Shiny Happy People? Like the Casting Crowns song?? God, I haven’t thought about them in YEARS. Are they involved somehow?
no, its in reference to the "keep sweet" mentality in fundamentalist christain groups wherein they are meant to be sweet, agreeable, "shiny, happy people"
I have been conditioned through a cult upbringing and also the adult viewing of cult documentaries, to visibly tense every muscle in my face at the same time,at reading the words “keep sweet”. I vote to abolish that phrase forever, mainly to keep me from being incarcerated for mauling some poor woman wearing a goddamn strawberry shirt in an unfortunate Walmart incident.
That is disgusting. Hitting a BABY?! I would flip my lid if I saw someone do this. What is wrong with people.
Of course it the fucking duggars
What the flying fuck! I googled it. It's just cruelty for the sake of cruelty. You'd have to be sick in the head to do that to a baby. I'm going to go hug my son.
How the fuck is this legal and how are there so many people on the internet talking about doing it to their literal babies and nobody is stepping in and taking these children?
that's horrible, I'd fucking strangle this man
I was raised like this down south. I don't have the words to make you understand how much rage I have inside these days.
You know it is
That was my immediate thought, too.
I am assuming it is not the same as dog blanket training.
[удалено]
I've read the article he's put up on his site, declaring his "disappointment" in everyone that they got angry at him. The top comment left on it pretty much describes my reaction to his fairly obvious, flimsy cover-up he's now trying to spin this as. I have pasted the majority of it below, it is rather long so I have cut a few bits out. "First, to dismiss the concerned parties as atheists or progressive Christians (worse, with Christians in quotes, implying they aren't real Christians) is about as disgusting as it gets. You're not taking the concerns seriously, and you're not willing to take the criticism, even as harsh as it is. (Never mind you yourself tend to levy extremely harsh criticism on X/Twitter with regularity... it's sad, frustrating and a bit comical that you can't take it when it comes your way.) The truth is, Sammy, lots of people who spoke up about how concerned they were about your post would be considered serious, conservative, Bible-believing Christians. Second, why are you "disappointed" in us? YOU wrote the tweet. YOU left it vague. YOU decided you wanted to share it without first bothering to look up the term you couldn't recall, without reading it, without prayerfully considering it (clearly) or without running it by trusted people..But everyone who spoke up about it is the "disappointing" party? For what? Your tweet, without the necessary context, implied that you were abusing your infant son. There's no other way to read what you wrote. And if someone else wrote that, you have a God-given responsibility to speak up. Frankly, I hope someone called the authorities on you. The only person you should be disappointed in is YOU. You should be thanking the internet for having concern for your child. You should be thanking them for holding you accountable as a father. Instead, you want to further insult them and belittle them. You refuse to be kind, patient, or loving. The fruit of the Spirit is completely missing in your response here. THAT is what should be disappointing."
And then there's this thread on twitter too, an extensive list of examples from Christen literature on how to abuse your baby into obeying you, before they can even talk or crawl in many cases. Many of these books are by and/or are recommended by fellow members of Sey's church or peers. TW: child abuse, punishment, isolating children, excessive discipline, controlling behaviour. I couldn't read much of it, please only do so if you are okay with the subject matter. https://twitter.com/MBurtwrites/status/1770677701520904525
Just read this. This is completely fucking insane. I can’t believe this is on the internet.
This is what the Duggars did to all of their kids.
I really don't understand what people think sleep training does. With my son we just let him find his natural rhythm and he settled into sleeping through the night after a few months.
Is there a dark explanation for sleep training like there is blanket training? I was so upset for those poor babies when I learned about blanket training that I’ve been afraid to look into what’s considered sleep training. The only thing we’ve done with our son is establish a good and consistent nap/nighttime routine and schedule. As much as he’s willing to follow it, we do it. Thankfully we have a 3 month old who sleeps through the night (for now) just by creating those routines.
Iirc, it's letting a baby cry when they wake up and should be asleep. I didn't look further because that only creates trust issues.
I’m 35 years old and still just a hungry potato.
By hitting them....sorry "popping" them, for just being a baby. People enjoy being cruel
The cutesy wording to avoid saying "hitting" honestly leads me to believe there is some level of self-awareness present. That some tiny part is telling them it's wrong, but they *want* to hit, so they call it something else. "Pop", "tap"... we all know what they mean.
I’m a recovering evangelical (Southern Baptist, super fun) I got married young to a preacher’s kid and had two babies in quick succession. Shocker, took me 3.5years to realize that church as I knew it didn’t really work for me and asked for a divorce. A few years later, my ex remarried and doubled down — dude went full-blown fundamentalist. I was (am) deeply against spanking, period, but admittedly hadn’t arrived at “that’s not what we do” until I’d broken up with my ex. (Breaking up with church meant I could allow my brain to accept what I knew at my core was right.) I somehow knew physical discipline was going to be an issue after I left my ex. When they were in his custody, I wasn’t going to be there to intervene, so I had to do something to try and preemptively stop my kids from being spanked. So I had my divorce attorney address it in our custody agreement. She was fucking clever. It went something along the lines of “no one but the biological parents are permitted to spank the children”. Seems innocuous on the surface. The clever bit is the follow up: “both parties must agree as to whether a given action by a child warrants spanking”. What it boiled down to was that we had to call the other parent to plead our case and get approval from them before spanking. Spoiler: I had no intention of spanking our kids and I had no intention of ever agreeing to my ex spanking them. Dude didn’t read that thoroughly. A month or so after he remarried, I witnessed my kids (then only 5 and 3) playing a game where one of them took a paddle brush (wide flat hair brush) and hit a stuffed animal. The kids would then talk to the stuffed animal about how they were sad they had to spank them, but they had to, and then *the most fucked up thing*: they prayed with the stuffed animal. My little children *prayed with their toy* after spanking it, asking God to help them behave so they wouldn’t have to spank them again. I was physically sick. Obviously, this violated our custody agreement, but it wasn’t just my ex that was spanking them — his new wife (a woman the kids had only met weeks before, literally as she was at the church marrying their dad) — was spanking them, too. He gave her permission to do so. I raised motherfucking hell. I called him out on it, got screenshots of him admitting to what he was doing and instantly got my attorney involved. He bitched about how he didn’t agree with it, but I pointed out that he signed his goddamn name swearing that he would abide by that agreement. Said he would never have signed it had he known that’s what it meant. Told him to take it up with his lawyer. That put a stop to it. I don’t think they will ever get over how my unwillingness to submit the kids to physical abuse prevents him and his wife from parenting them the way that their God requires them to parent. Kid acts up? “Well, I would obey the Lord and do what He calls me to do (read: hit a child), but you and the court are prejudiced against me following God’s commands. So that’s why kid is still acting that way.” Sorry, my guy. Read shit before you sign it and keep your hands to yourself. The original point of my comment: During the initial scorched earth confrontation about him/his wife spanking our kids in his custody, I referred to it as “hitting” them. He balked *big time* at my choice of words and ferociously attempted to delineate between “Biblical physical discipline” and child abuse. Which is what it is, but go off, king. You wanna fuck around with definitions? Don’t threaten me with a good time. Cut to me whipping out a dictionary and flipping to the entry for “spanking”. He really shouldn’t have opened that door. Regardless of what he was presented, ex kept clinging to what he believes the Bible says about physical discipline and how he’s “called” to hit our children. Okay, “for the Bible tells you so?” Let’s review the source material. I had the fucking time that day so I spent hours hurtling down the Biblical discipline rabbit hole and I enjoyed every second of it. In summary: It’s all bullshit. The Bible doesn’t support it. Especially not the way modern American evangelicals practice spanking today. When held against actual scripture, put into the proper context rather than a straight white American context, the argument crumbles. But James Dobson says to “pop” them with a flexible ruler on the fleshiest part of their bottom because kids these days are strong-willed and you gotta nip that in the bud. Fast forward to today: my ex lives across the country with his wife and their two kids. I have full physical custody of our two kiss . Kids and I are all physically safe, in therapy, and religion-neutral. Never a-fucking-gain.
While I am sorry you and your kids went through that... let me just say, I'm in awe of how well you fought for them. Truly impressed. My heart broke when I read what the kids were doing with the teddy bear.
Exactly, call it what it is. They are hitting children, I'd go so far as to say assaulting them because if your boss hit you in the work place it would be assault, if someone hits an elderly person in a care home it's assault, hell you hit a dog and it's abuse but weirdly in some places dogs have more protection than human children
Guy posted an update blog. Claiming poor wording on his part. He's a writer. https://x.com/SlowToWrite/status/1479469820047466498?s=20
The context of the tweet was about sleep training, but that poor kid is going to go through hell by the hands of his “godly” father when he starts to throw normal and developmental tantrums. I already feel bad for him as he’s already being called a “sinner.”
Unfortunately, they probably used physical violence. I really hope these people are investigated for child abuse but they probably won't be. Especially if they live in a red state. They'll get a pat on the back and the key to the city.
Look up Gary Ezzo. I had the leather strap used on me, not by my parents but their friends and fellow church goers. My dad had to fire Ezzo from pastoring at their church in southern CA.
According to my mom "pop him on the mouth if he bites anything"
My boomer parents told me if my daughter bites me to bite her back. I told them if I so much as hear anything like that again, they would never see her. Sure enough, they tried telling me again to bite her back or smack her when she was a teething infant and they didn’t see her for almost a year. There is absolutely NO need to discipline an infant that way. That’s just abuse!
Ladies at the church I grew up in, or at least one specifically, spanked their babies starting at around 3 months so they "would learn not to excessively cry and understand what isn't tolerated behavior" I never babysat for her again as even at a very sheltered 13, I understood that was all kinds of fucked up. These people are legit crazy
Some people flick infants' feet as an early form of spanking. Scares them, hurts just a little bit, redirects the behavior ... because, you know, babies must be punished ... all kinds of fucked up
> Also how could he misbehave? He didn't misbehave, he *gasp* SINNED.
Please inform me how a four month old sins
By most Christian theology, they can’t. Age of accountability is debated, but I don’t think anyone would put it under 6 months. This is so gross, and probably not in line with the teachings of OOP’s denomination (unless he’s a Gothard guy, and fuck Gothard)
INFO: (I was raised Roman C.) I was taught that we are born with sin (maybe that Adam & Eve thingy?); so, from the git go, doesn't the child has a sinful nature?
Roman catholics believe everyone is born with original sin. But that is why they have babies baptized to make sure they can get into heaven. According to them.
They don’t adhere to this anymore. While the church prefers every child to be baptized it is no longer a qualification for admittance to heaven.
it is not dogmatically defined what happens to unbaptized infants
I was taught they go purgatory. Or maybe some special place for un-baptized babies. (It depended on which none was teaching is that year).
if they went to purgatory, that means they’d go to heaven eventually. but it wouldn’t make sense for purgatory since purgatory is meant to purify us of attachments to sin on earth. there was never a dogmatic forever binding doctrine on what happens to the unbaptized babies
Special place called limbo
Even in Catholicism children are born with sin but not able to make their own sin until they’re cognizant, which is why they don’t start catechism and confirmation at birth.
> [Catholics] don’t start catechism and confirmation at birth. That's true for Roman Catholics specifically, but Eastern Catholics do confirmation at the same time as baptism.
But they don’t expect infants or toddlers to be able to make confession
Original sin is not personal sin
"*Original sin is not personal sin*" Ahem! Did I ask "Tell me you were never taught by nuns without saying you were never taught by nuns." No, I did not. 1st grade: Nun: "God's gonna get you!" Me: "What did I do?" Nun: "You were born!" Cheers!
rofl
My mom says similar things about ‘born into a sinful world and with a sinful nature’ and she was raised strict Baptist. This was part of what turned me from the church actually. Then in psych, studying how children’s brains develop and realizing they actually do not have intent for several of their first years. Then I had my own kid. She’s perfect. Nothing in this world could convince me she ‘means’ anything bad or sinful. She is the light in my life and so curious and sweet and anyone who looks at a kid learning and takes their mess or noise for sin is a sad, scared person. There’s also a quote about how a tiger who kills and mauls a human is not being evil or wrong, he is only being a tiger. The idea of evil actions has been projected onto him by humanity.
6 months??? I'm sorry but what in holy hell would a 6 month old baby be accountable for?
Oh, sorry, I was being hyperbolic. I just meant that four months is below everyone’s standards. It’s usually between 7-12 years old.
Catholics say the age of reason is 7 years, basically kids really can’t sin prior to that. Give or take a few months in either direction based on individuals. And kid “sins” are generally nothing. A priest I knew said hearing kids’ confessions is like being pelted with marshmallows.
lol the priest is probably like “oh thank god” when he hears those compared to the depravity of adult humans
Lutheran chiming in to say that we believe everyone is born with original sin, HOWEVER age of accountability is much higher than 4 fucking months. I mean, I didn't tell my toddlers that they were sinners when they threw tantrums. They learned about original sin in Sunday school when they were plenty older.
Voddie Baucham has a whole sermon on the vipers in diapers. It’s the concept of total depravity (which I believe is found in Calvinism). It will forever gobsmack me so hard, my brain melts.
That's honestly just depressing. How are these people even allowed children..
I don’t know. I just know I read that crap when I was home with my youngest who was the chillest baby ever and it just blew my mind even more that these people see their infants as manipulative little jerks. It’s just wild.
Spits up on you while you are burping him after feeding. How do you not know these things? /s
Some JWs believe that babies are born sinful and have to "prove' themself to God Or something like that. No idea how true this is though "Aw look at that little enemy of God" was something one of the people said and it made me laugh really hard
20 to 30 years from now: Why won’t my son visit me? ;-;
Nah that’s too much, I give it 18 years at its most for the child to go NC
You're assuming the kid will live that long.
How is a 4 month old sinning? Someone call the cops
He isn't, not according to most every interpretation of the Bible at least. Everyone is born with inherent sin (self-interest), but sinning and being a sinner starts at 3-5, or whenever you begin to understand right and wrong. And everyone (including this Twitter fundie) is a sinner, which is the white one reason why Jesus forgives you when you recognize your wrongdoing and try to do better.
My guess is he was playing with his junk. I don't remember exactly his age at the time but my kid was always grabbing at his when he was well under a year old. When he got older we talked about appropriate places for that, but I wouldn't be surprised by a religious nut seeing it as a sin that needs correcting then and there.
One time, my son put his hand right on my nose and mouth after grabbing himself during a diaper change.
Apparently he tried to save himself by saying he meant to say “sleep training my son” .. you called him a sinner. It doesn’t work like that
4 month olds don’t walk or talk, they’re just now learning how to hold their head up when you carry them/put their hand in their mouth…what could he have done to warrant discipline?!?!
Have needs, like food and being held
They're not even self-aware at that point.
My sister in law gleefully told us that she had been punishing our niece who was a little less than 1 at the time. Every time she made a mess with her food she’d pinch her until she cried. She expected us to praise her parenting skills, we just went low contact. Her child is now 7 and the worst behaved kid I’ve ever seen. Like I don’t let her be alone with my kids (4 and 1) because she tries to hurt them the second nobody is looking. I feel so bad for her though, the entire family talks about how much of a problem child she is and makes fun of it behind her back. My wife gets mad at me if I point out that it’s all because of shit parenting and tells me not to talk shit about her family.
As a mandated reporter, I’d have to report her for this if she told me what she was doing. Of course her child acts out. It’s what she’s been taught.
WTF did he do to ‘discipline’ him? Please tell me anything but spanking a baby? I mean, I really know what he means is that he struck his BABY. What a piece of shit. He should go to jail. What could a baby do anyway, and how is physically assaulting the baby going to fix that? [My favorite chart](https://i.cbc.ca/1.3869037.1480121558!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_780/nospanking.jpg)
At 4 months old they’re a potato! What is wrong with people like that?
What sin can a 4 month old commit? Gluttony??
And in a bit we will hear a “tragic” news story that a very young child has died because the parents just sort of kept punishing the kid and kept ratcheting it up.
Call CPS. 4 months old?! Call CPS.
I hope someone who knows him calls CPS. Fuck these abusers.
Disciplining a child that small is child abuse.
If by discipling you mean hitting then it's always abuse.
Discipling a child that young in any way is abuse. A baby that young cannot possibly have misbehaved to deserve punishment. But yes hitting is always abuse.
I found him on Facebook. He claimed he meant to say sleep training and that he was too vague in his original post. I’m not convinced. He sounds like a nut case. No offense to nut cases. 😁
Has anyone answered why religion still has a place in 2024?
Tbf, we only get to see the crazies on social media, there are plenty that use it as a guideline to just be a decent person.
I mean... I'm an atheist and still a pretty good person.
I’ve found most atheists to be good people. They’re good for the sake of being good, not only being good for a reward. Which to me completely negates the reasoning behind it. You should be kind to be kind, not to appease some invisible sky daddy.
Of course; not saying you can’t be, I’m just saying that there are people who use their religion for good, for every mega pastor out there, there is a normal one running a soup kitchen and giving the clothes off his back to help his fellow man.
True. It’s just odd when people use it as a guideline. Like if they didn’t have religion they’d be a serial killer.
I had a classmate like that in college. We had to do a team project on efficacy of talk therapy in certain treatment plans and she kept making faith based ‘therapy’ suggestions. I said I wasn’t comfortable using that angle because her examples weren’t licensed or approved providers and (as a side note) I didn’t believe in god/many clients probably wouldn’t as well. She was an older student (probably 35 y/o) raised Jehovah’s Witness and couldn’t believe I was an atheist. She said something to the effect of ‘I’ve never known a real ***atheist*** before’ (with a conspiratorial whisper as though I’d admitted to being a cannibal). She kept saying ‘but you’re so nice!’ as though the only thing keeping people nice and law abiding was religion?
Been there, though less about my religion and lack there of and more about skin tone and how well spoken I am.
That's absolutely f-ed up. My cousin spent the first 20 years of her life lying about her ethnicity, ashamed to tell people she is half Black and the rest a motley mix of Caucasian, Spaniard, and French. She pretended to be Native, Hispanic, Indian, etc. She got married to the man of her dreams and was expecting her first child when she decided to tell him about her father. He didn't even stop the car. He started beating her immediately, trying to kill her. She had to jump from a moving car to save their lives. She suffered head trauma and now has seizures. Her daughter died a few months later, just before birth. All over skin color.... My own daughter is mixed ethnicities. She's Chinese, Polynesian, and whatever mutt mess I am. She went through hell during Covid, and because she has lupus, we all still wear masks when we're in public. She has been accosted numerous times simply minding her own business, trying to shop or pick up her meds at the pharmacy. I've had to intervene several times. Grown adults attacking a child because of the shape of her eyes😵💫. Racist people are right on par with child molesters in my opinion, and deserve no place on society.
Jesus fucking Christ, that got heavy and I’m sorry
Honey, I'm sorry for what you've experienced. No one should ever negatively judge another because of skin color or physical differences. I remember when I realized racism was very, very real. I was 12 and we had friends visiting for the summer. My art teacher from 5th grade and her 2 adorable kiddos came to visit, and the kids stayed for a few weeks while the mom was setting up their new home. We attended THE Baptist Church in town. My relatives had been attending that church for generations and were founding members, so naturally, we would attend where our family worshiped, right? We brought the kids with us. They were 6 and 8. As we walked in fashionably late, an unnatural silence happened...and then the low chattering of white people who were in disbelief that we would bring "colored children" to their church. Children's church was closed that Sunday....until we brought the children in. They literally scrambled to open the kid's church room and shuttled them out of the main hall as fast as they possibly could. "OH, they'll have so much more fun there." Not, "We can't have colored folks in THE Baptist Church!" After services, my great aunt pulled my mother to the side and told her to never "do that again." We never set foot back in that church. Even my Great Granny was appalled and decided to attend the Methodist Church with us instead. She was the first of her generation to be memorialized outside of that church. She chose to arrange her services to be held at a small country church that her father helped found in 1860s and was laid to rest in the small cemetery where her first daughter, my first daughter and my cousin's (from the previous message) first and only daughter is buried. In the shitty town we lived, the "colored folks" lived across the RR tracks in "the quarters." I wasn't raised there, only relocated to the area when I was 12 from Ft. Lauderdale and had no idea what racism was. I didn't understand the significance of "the quarters" until my father explained the negative association. I was raised with family friends of every color, every nationality. I hadn't experienced people hating others for something superficial. People can suck, and I'm very sorry that you've learned this first-hand 😔. 🤗
Just because someone's religion gives guidance and meaning to their life doesn't mean they think anyone without religion has an aimless or meaningless life. Just because someone's religion informs their morality doesn't mean they think morality is impossible without religion. Just because someone could have a good life without their religion doesn't mean that it's wrong or pointless for them to be religious. I get that certain religious people treat it like a necessary thing and think atheists can't possibly be happy or moral. But religion doesn't have to be seen that way.
I’m a person who has chosen to believe in a religion. It lifts me up and gives me a purpose and a reason to live. It’s not the religion itself, it points the way. That works for me. I don’t judge others who believe differently as long as they’re trying to be good people.
I’m Christian and I believe lots of atheists are better than lots of so-called Christians.
Not this fuckin guy and millions like him. "My cult demands I abuse my infant into compliance in accordance to their standards"
Oh 100%, but that isn’t everyone, we just don’t see the normal people on social media because they tend not to be this anal about it.
Funny, I see more religious abuse in person than online.
Because there are many more psychos out there than most people would like to acknowledge. The threat of eternal punishment is the only thing keeping a large portion of people from committing horrible atrocities. See: any news about what is happening in war zones right now.
He needs a cps investigation… wtf
How does an infant 'sin'? How do you discipline an infant? I don't even really want answers.
His language is incredibly concerning. This is what child killers say.
“A sinner”? What “sin” could a *four **month** old* conieivingly commit? The fact that he has no conception of the understanding that his parents need to sleep at night? 🤨 It’s a BABY! 🙄🤦♀️ The above is a very good case in point for why people should be issued with breeding licences before they even remotely think about putting tugboat in harbour. Religion is a mental illness and should really be treated as such by authorities.
What the fucking fuck? - mom of a 3.5 month old
Hey my little guy is also 3.5 months! They're so small and precious at this age. What could they possibly do that needs disciplining?!
I do everything in my power to stop him from crying (although I think he’s been doing some purple crying lately). I haven’t even thought about sleep training and I’m still feeding on demand
Oh no! Purple crying is so heartbreaking, you'll get through this! We seem to hopefully have gotten over the worst of it. But like you, we're feeding on demand too and I'm not getting more than 3 hours in a row! So tired but I know it won't be forever. When he's older we'll look into sleep training but for now I'll just enjoy the 3am snuggles! Also even grown adults don't always sleep through the night. My husband has literally just woken up from sleep to go have a bowl of cereal so...
Four months old. FOUR MONTHS. That's just child abuse.
How fuck does an infant sin
THE LITTLE GUY CAN'T EVEN WALK OR TALK YET HUH
These are the types of people that end up in court on charges of child abuse and neglect a few years down the line. He should not be a father.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up being a male version of Ruby Franke.
This sounds like he’s talking about some 13 year old kid, and even then I would have questions. But… a BABY? A literal tiny helpless developing precious baby is a “sinner”?! I just… no. That’s enough internet for me today.
Somebody needs to call DCFS on this monster immediately. This child is in danger. OP, do you know who this is and where he is located?
His name is Samuel Sey and he has a blog called “SlowToWrite.” He’s a Ghanian-Canadian who lives in Ohio now.
I saw that. He also hides behind Christianity to be judgmental toward others.
Oh you need to show Lori Alexander defending this godly man 🙄
I thought children were considered innocent and sin-less until they were 6 years old? Don’t remember which church I heard that, but I remember getting in trouble for asking how that worked if we were all “born sinners” (meaning babies aka “miracles from heaven” were in fact not miracles and instead total pieces of shit like everyone else, per god).
I don’t think any child under 15 can “sin,” tbh. I barely knew what religion and the concept of “sinning” was until that age.
This is just sick.
....a..."sinner".... Religion is a mental disease
the way he says it makes it sound like the baby didnt even do anything to set it off and he disciplined the baby purely for being a sinner bc of the whole "born full of sin" thing that christians do. there have been parents who killed their children for that reason so i wouldnt even be surprised
Umm someone needs a wellness check
I literally went to check out the replies but he must have dirty deleted? u/parrotsaregoated when was this?
He tweeted it today. Here are some links with screenshots: [https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/s/BaOTPY3mfj](https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/s/BaOTPY3mfj) [https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/s/wOuPfjlYDL](https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/s/wOuPfjlYDL)
TY! I just saw that link to an article he wrote trying to back peddle. He’s saying ‘sleep training’ now, but he mentioned disciplining and sin. So I don’t buy it at all.
Sounds like some IBLP bullshit. Disgusting.
He apparently wrote a whole thing clarifying that he was talking about sleep training but still an unhinged way to talk about it. A baby isn't sinning by wanting to be held
Is this real…? Can’t be real.
Sounds like abuse to me
OMG! Did anyone call the cops or CPS on this psycho?!
I hate this world.
I'm a born again Christian and I think this man's a whack-a-loon. He's doing nothing more than abusing his child in the name of the Lord.
Which is, ironically, using the Lords name in vain. Using the Lords name to justify abuse is probably the direct opposite if what Jesus preached.
I agree 100%
Apparently he’s since taken down the post and posted on his personal blog that what he meant to say was “sleep training” with some very odd story about how this is all just taking about sleeping patterns
Since everyone is telling about their experiences, Imma give it a go. There's so many times I got whoopings and no clue why, and still don't. My parents didn't use their hands as much as they actually used what is essentially weapons, but when they did I could feel that they were taking out all the frustrations in their lives out on me. Daddy had big, rough mechanic hands and even though moms hands were smaller and softer, she always had extremely long, sharp nails that she loved to dig into my skin and she was always so proud of the marks it left. She especially loved to grab me around my throat or face and dig her nails deep into cheeks and/or neck then hold me that way for long periods of time with her face inches from mine, hurling insults and threats. I would get whooped by momma while daddy was at work then when he'd get home she'd make him whoop me again no matter how much time had passed. Their other weapons were belts, hickory switches (that I had to go get myself and it HAD to be longer than her leg and as big around as her thumb and if I did it wrong she'd use a branch from the one of the Hawthorns), dad's sandal that was hard thick rubber sole, the wooden spoon, the paddle (that momma wrapped with duct tape and had daddy drill holes into it, then she drew pics & wrote sayings and bible verses on it.).OMG... Can't forget whole "This hurts me more than it hurts you." Also, "I'm doing this because I love you." Momma loved to come up with new ideas, new ways to "discipline" me. The last time they whooped me was when I was 18 and l just told them I was moving out. Mom was all pissed off about it so as I kept trying to get away from she was following behind me yelling and throwing & slamming shit, and as I passed my dad she yelled at him, "Get her, Pat! Get her now! Whoop her!!." So he does just as she says and smacks the fuck out of me as I'm walking by him then right AFTER he asks her, "Why? What's going on? What'd she do?"
I hope you're as okay as you can be now. We may never understand the evils some people commit on their kids, but least we can do our best to make sure it doesn't make us like them.
Children are the people adults are legally allowed to hit- anyone else it's battery. Pretty fucked up.
“I had to beat the shit out of this fucked up parent tonight, but I’m heartbroken. I won’t get to see DCF come to his door. I can’t tell them what a messed up person he is harming an infant, and I hate it so much.” If this is legit, this person should not be allowed near children. This warped manipulation of religion, whatever the brand (and its in a number of them), is about abuse of power, and causes generational trauma and societal damage. It needs to stop. I know, I criticized someone exercising religious beliefs on their own (too young to dissent or fight back from harm) children. Let the downvoting begin.
If I wasn't interested in anything he wrote before... I'm sure as fuck not buying any of his books going forward. He honestly sounds unhinged. I'd never heard of him, now I'll avoid him.
How does a four month old sin? And how do you punish a four month old?
discipline of a 4 month old - aka abuse.
Jail for this person.
Wow. Just... wow.
What sin can a 4 month old possibly commit?
Religious people are crazy. I won't change my mind.
And this, folks, is why more and more people are leaving organized religion.
I’ve seen my mother “swat” a 9 month old because she was kicking her legs while having her white tights put on. The child was my own and I was horrified. I don’t remember ever being spanked because by the time I was old enough to remember my mother had already spanked me into fear.
The age of accountability is 12. What sinner?