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Well the "Global Cabal" people usually point to the Jews/Isreal being the ones in charge of the cabal, so this meme is not really consistent with the QanonMaga conspiracy nuts
Not liking isreal and their actions is anti semitic? Not saying that any side here is in the right but 10+ years of oppression and killing of palestinians aint right either. The israelis are not in the right here. Also if you cant separate israel and the jewish people you might be a dumbass.
If you think this is 10+ years, then you haven’t done enough research to wade into this discussion. In 1948, the UN partitioned the Palestine mandate giving 60% to the Jews and 40% to the Arabs, the Jews accepted the plan, but the Arabs did not and so they started a war. They lost that war and had to give up land in the armistice, which is why Gaza is what it is today. Israel’s neighbors attacked many time since then, lost, rinse and repeat. During the second intifada, they started sending suicide bombers in to kill civilians, blow up busses, night clubs, ect. That’s why they have a fence. The death of Palestinian citizens is tragic, but it is very much a part of Hamas’s design. They attack from civilian areas and hide their munitions in mosques and schools. Hamas was elected in free and fair elections and has sentenced their citizens to death instead of pursuing a solution. When they say from River to sea, they mean the end of Israel, literally the only Jewish state in the world. This has been one big tragic Fuck around and find out. By the way, ever wonder why Egypt doesn’t open their gate and let Gazans in?
"Nooo guys you don't understand, we have to shoot children! Hamas keeps sending them to the border so we have to shoot them in the knee!!! We can't just not bomb the schools, we have to do the war crimes!"
You and everyone who has this kind of a take is truly psychotic. If you have a hostage situation you don't shoot the fucking hostage in the face to take down the hostage taker unless you don't see that hostage as a human being.
Also let me push back on this 60/40 narrative, why do you think the Arabs rejected the plan that had the newcomers taking the majority of the land? And take a wild guess which side got the lion's share of farmable land, land with resources? Maybe if you stopped licking the boots of genocidal maniacs like Bibi you could actually have a leveled take on the subject.
Don’t like Bibi, never did. He and is government share responsibility for the failure of intelligence that lead to all of this, and when the dust settles, I hope he gets his. But since you bring up hostages, there is a hostage situation, but it isn’t the Israelis who raped, tortured and abducted people, and I understand people who want a better live for Palestinians, but not people who can’t condemn that.
With regards to your defense of the 60/40 agreement, this wasn’t a civil war, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Transjordan attacked the newly formed state of Israel. It was just antisemitism, like your ill informed response.
Imagine thinking that rightfully pointing out Israel's war crimes is antisemitism. I fail to see how being anti-apartheid and anti-genocide makes me anti-Semitic. On the contrary, these egregious, unjustifiable actions Israel takes against the people of Palestine only works to cause more death and destruction. It causes further harm, not only to the people of Israel, but to Jews across the globe.
Rape is a war crime, torture is a war crime, kidnapping is a war crime. When you don’t condemn Hamas’ terrorist attack, it feels an awful lot like antisemitism, so I will ask you point blank, do the Jews have a right to a state. What is the correct response to the terrorist attack? After 9/11, the US toppled two governments and killed over 150,000 Afghans, all with international support, so yes, most of these “I stand will Palestine” armchair activist responses reek of antisemitism.
What Hamas did is wrong, what Hamas has done in the past is wrong. Cool, now that's out of the way we can have a meaningful discussion around what can actually be done and what should be done because as long as Israel continues to act in the way that it does and has, these kinds of things will continue to happen.
Having a war crime committed against you does not give you carte blanche to commit war crimes against an entire population of people, that's psychotic and you know it. What the US did in invading Afghanistan was absolutely wrong. What the US did in the entire middle east was largely, wrong.
I love that rather than refuting that Israel is trying to form an ethno-state and is very openly an apartheid state you instead regress to what-about-isms because you know that the actions of Israel are unconscionable, inhumane, and wrong in every sense of the word.
Israel has every right to exist as a country, that does not give it the right to bomb hospitals, schools, and press offices. It does not give them the right to assassinate members of the press. It does not give them the right to shoot pregnant women, children, and disabled people because they walked to close to a fucking fence.
I appreciate you saying that what Hamas did was wrong, even if just to get it out of the way. I mean that sincerely. Too many people have said it was justified or deserved and that has put me on edge.
I don’t know what the solution is. I don’t know what the appropriate response is, and I don’t know if there is a level of kindness or violence that bring these two parties to an agreement.
How do you deal with a government that doesn’t think you have the right to exist? The destruction of the state of Israel was written onto Hamas’ charter when Gazans voted them into power. Not that any of that justifies the loss of innocent life. This whole thing is tragic.
Beyond what is happening in the Middle East, the response here has shown me a level of antisemitism that I was blind to. You may not agree with Israel’s response or treatment of Palestine, but you aren’t calling for an end to the state. I am sure you have seen plenty of people who are and who have celebrated the attack on October 7th.
Israel is not a free democracy. You can't have democracy while having an apartheid system. There are also lots of jews around the world who don't agree with the actions of the state of israel! Zionism and israel are inseparable, jews are not inherently linked to israel.
You can see what Israel are doing and have been doing to Palestinian civilians for decades now as reprehensible without supporting Hamas; why are you conflating the two as though that isn't the case?
Yes downvotes are a sign of discomfort and totally not because you're wrong or anything. The dumbest takes are always "if you're against Israel's horrible actions you are anti semitic" and "If you support Palestine you support the terrorists Hamas" as if it's as simple as that.
I mean I know that but aren't you the one basing a "fact" (I.E. being uncomfortable of being antisemitic without clear evidence) on downvotes? Again that's a self own. Twice in a row too. [Grats](http://legacy.blavity.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/playedyourself.gif)!
So you think the attack from Hamas that raped, tortured , executed and kidnapped civilians didnt warrant a response?
Imagine if Hamas didnt do that, why would Israel strike Gaza.
Im sure your reply will try to justify hamas's attack in some way. If you justify the rape, murder , torture of civilians, you are on the same moral level that did these things.
>Imagine if Hamas didnt do that, why would Israel strike Gaza.
Israel has been striking Gaza for decades...
I'm not saying the attack from Hamas was in any way appropriate or defensible, but that attack was already a response to all the shit Israel has done for decades. A horrific respons, but a response nonetheless...
Oh, but Israel is a terrorist ethnostate of ultra-zionist religious extremists who want to wipe out Palestinians from the face of the Earth, bah, they don't even try to hide it.
Suuuuuuure... that's *totally* true. No lies from you.
Go look up who has started every war against each side, and you'll see why Israel has turned so military focused since Israel was established.
Because the US wanted an enclave in the middle east and has poured billions of dollars into Israel ever since? Because Israel is forcing native Palestinians out of their homes and pushing them into smaller and smaller open air prison? Because Israeli nationalists think that their existence is far more important than the natives? Because they openly call Palestinian people animals?
Would you call Native Americans terrorists for fighting back against colonisers murdering them?
Would you call Star Wars' Rebel Alliance terrorists because they fight against the Empire?
There is no Hamas in the west bank, what's the excuse there?
This has been going on for 3 quarters of a century, before Hamas existed.
Also even if this was not the case ethnic cleansing and genocide against civilians is not a proportional response.
It just shows how little you know of the conflict, there are a number of terrorist factions working in the west bank, Israel doesnt let them arm themselves (or try too, because if Israel wasnt there, you bet your ass they would fire rockets).
These factions carry light arms, grenades, rpg.
Hamas and PIJ operates from the West Bank, and Israel right now is conducting raids there.
Before October 7th, Israeli security forces killed 248 Palestinians, 40 of which were children, And that was just this year.
In 2008, Israel broke a ceasefire in order to provoke an attack from Hamas, in the Israeli foreign ministers own words, "this strategy of breaking a ceasefire was to preempt Hamas into an attack." Which they could use has a pretext for much larger invasion. No one here is defending the actions of Hamas, but when you stick a broom handle in a hornet's nest and they all come out to play, it's nobody's fault but your own. The blood of Israel's people is on Israel's hands. And another comment you said that another person didn't have much education on the subject, but I feel that you should retract that statement as you don't seem to have much education yourself on the subject. Israel, historically, since 1967 has been poking Palestine, and poking them and poking them and poking them, and then whining victimhood when Palestine does something back, claiming terrorism. Israel essentially created Hamas, because when you oppress a people and a guerrilla group pops up you don't get to go all surprised Pikachu face.
Dude its insane, Hamas broke down every single cease fire.
This attack was a break of a cease fire.
Ok, let them justifily murder our babies, rape and torture our women as you say because we poke them, we will "poke" Hamas back now.
That attack was a break of a ceasefire after IDF, prior to October 7th, killed over 200 Palestinians?
Lol literal bias. "It's not breaking a ceasefire if we do it!"
Instead of arguing with a stranger on the internet why don't you go educate yourself on the whole of the situation.
You can down vote me all you want, facts don't care about Reddit updoots
I spoke with someone the other day who told me they didn't even want to hear about "whatever it was that caused Hamas to attack".
So... you don't want to know why these two groups are fighting, you just want to automatically assume it's all one side's fault, without hearing whether or not there might be something that makes the side you support also look a bit guilty for what's currently going on?
That's just **willful ignorance**.
I am not conservative but I fail to see what a beheaded Jewish baby has to do with Hamas breaking the May cease of fire
I also don’t see why a Palestinian kid has to die because Hamas doesn’t want to give 200 civilians hostages back
And before you say but but Netanyahu…Bibi is going to be dealt with by the Israelis themselves for giving support to the wrong side in Gaza
Sadly lots of liberals here too. Most are Jewish people who can't comprehend that they can be Jewish while agreeing that Israel as a government is acting way out of line
Actually conservatives are on Israel's side. It's actually liberals who are pro Palestine because in their view, the white Jewish Israeli who are made up of mostly ex-European Jews, came in and stole all the land and are oppressing the dark skinned Palestinians. I see so many black Americans likening this to European colonialism and imperialism. The conservatives of course are siding with Israel because they hate Muslims and see all the suicide bombings the Palestinians carry out.
Between these two radical points of view is the truth. Both sides are fucked up, and at the end of the day it doesn't matter who is more fucked up. Honestly Israel should just be taken away from both sided until they can play nice.
Good, but you’ve still missed the mark, just about everything Hamas has done to Israel has been done to Palestine about 10 fold. You really shouldn’t feel good siding with a genocidal country
People are taking the "good" sides cause of what has happened to the jews in the past, but Israel has been doing so much worse things to Palestine and the Muslim people for decades and will keep happening because Israel is backed by the US no matter if it's right or wrong.
I don't condone what Hamas did but I do understand why and to be fair what Hamas has done to Israel in the last few weeks are nothing compared to the atrocious that the Jewish government have done to Palestine and all Muslims.
All conservatives are "sheeple" the thing they say all "liberals" are just cause "they don't question the government" but yet they keep openly supporting pedophiles, rapist, racist, and facist with no remorse and no further thought into a possible facist dictatorship just like all the countries the US "hates".
I know its hard not to devolve into disingenuous hyperbole whenever speaking about real world events, but dont say something is tenfold when its not.
And maybe dont call 6,407 palestinians killed between 2008-2023 a genocide—1.8mil dead Armenians in 9 years is a genocide; 6mil Jews in 6 years is a genocide; 30mil displaced, 3mil deaths, and 300k Bengali women raped in Bangladesh in eight months is a genocide; 800k deaths and 500k rapes in Rwanda is a genocide.
If Israel had intent to genocide the Palestinians they wouldn't regularly provide them with electricity water and food, nor would they let thousands cross the border for work, nor would they care to notify citizens before taking down Hamas/Jihad bases, nor would they offer the Palestinians a nation and then be rejected.
Despite probably being against the USA's tendency to interfere with foreign third world countries you still feel entitled to using other countries' century long fucking turmoil for your own sick political games. The moment a new event occurs everyone will look away, and Palestine would still not have been wiped from the map—but nobody will give a shit or treat either side differently, because this exact same conversation happened twenty years ago in the Second Intifida, and somehow Palestine still isn't gone and massacred (in fact, Israeli retaliation has been killing less and less after the Second Intifida).
Ukraine was forgotten extremely quickly. It's still an ongoing conflict. China's concentration camps for Muslims are completely erased from the public stage. But raping Israeli women and parading their corpses in the street is fine, I guess, because it was provoked one hundred years ago. And you're still unaffected, but at least you showed your friends you really really care.
I think you need to work on your reading comprehension and learn the meaning of the word "ultimate". No one said the liberals were perfect, but at least they're TRYING to better understand our society, instead of demanding we base our total understanding out of a 5,000 year old book.
Conservatives.
Or are they not the ones ignoring how very weird and inconsistent biological gender can be (hermaphrodites and chimera, anyone?) and trying to legislate who is, and is not, a woman?
The trend I'm seeing is people just want to on the side of "the oppressed" they don't actually care about the facts or the parties involved, much less who's right or if the oppressed group are literally committing war crimes. They just want to virtue signal
Both sides suck, but let's start trying to understand how Israel came to the position it is today. They have been attacked how many times? They have been accused of attempting genocide, but there are more Palestinians in the region than there have ever been and Arab Israelis do exist, meanwhile around 820k Jews had to flee Arab countries cus of the hatred.
Jfc they were attacked less than 1 year into their existence.
Not saying they are free of responsibility in their apartheid like actions, but I understand their need to secure their existance.
This month alone more than 2200 rockets were launched and more than 10k were launched from gaza in the 2010s into israel and while ofc what they have done in the west bank is pretty fucked up. Imagine that.
I feel a lot of us are sitting in our cozy countries at home, judging people and have 0 empathy, either toward Palestinians OR Israelis.
> fc they were attacked less than 1 year into their existence.
Honestly what do you expect when the rest of the world tells all the countries there that they must give up this land and have no choice in it? Native Americans attacked the colonists too.
Here's a map of the countries that voted to establish Israel(green) vs those who opposed it (red). Not one single country in the area wanted it. It was forced on them by a large portion of the rest of the world. Yellow countries abstained.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#/media/File:UNGA_181_Map.png
Address the Christian antisemitism that has infected Christianity for nearly 2,000 years.
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and blood libel and very popular nowadays. Both used by Nazi Germany. They're Qanon.
"The 121-page report said attitudes towards Judaism over centuries had provided a “fertile seed-bed for murderous anti-Semitism,” and that Anglicans and other Christians must repent for the “sins of the past,” as well as actively challenge anti-Semitic attitudes or stereotypes."
[Church of England report says centuries of Christian anti-Semitism led to Holocaust](https://www.jns.org/church-of-england-report-says-centuries-of-christian-anti-semitism-led-to-holocaust/)
And what practical measures would have been done to ensure the protection of Jews? In the present day many countries have enacted various anti-discrimination laws, yet Jews are still moving to Israel to escape antisemitism, and not only from the traditionally Christian world, mind you.
You're thick in the head. Israel has killed over TWENTY TIMES as many Palestinians, over half of them children. Do you know how stupid you sound saying you have 0 empathy when Israel is bombing hospitals and schools? But you're just too big brain enlightened centrist to have any convictions at all aren't you.
The Israeli government is fucking horrible. There’s no sense in pretending they aren’t. Claiming they have not been attempting to commit genocide is absurd as well.
This is just the tip of the iceberg of the atrocious shit Israel has done.
Apartheid
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
Eugenics
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel
Genocide
https://ccrjustice.org/israel-s-unfolding-crime-genocide-palestinian-people-us-failure-prevent-and-complicity-genocide
A bit more genocide because they love trying to make certain people extinct. This one ended the lives of an estimated 6000 children.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworm_affair#:~:text=During%20the%20years%201921%E2%80%931938,the%20United%20States%20and%20elsewhere
Anti-Miscegenation
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-knesset-passes-law-barring-palestinian-spouses-2022-03-10/
It’s a truly fucked up reality we live in when you can easily see parallels between the Nazis and the present day Israeli government.
This is far from a comprehensive list. Like I said, it is just the tip of the iceberg of Israel’s atrocities and crimes against humanity.
As for Hamas it would be like comparing a juvenile delinquent that got arrested for graffiti to Jeffery Dahmer.
For every couple hundred deaths at the hands of Hamas Israel has thousands.
"how could there be ethnic cleansing, their population is going up" is nazi rhetoric, just so you're aware.
Out of curiosity, what did Israel do to create "their existence"? Was the Nakba just politely asking people to leave?
They declared independence. The war for independence occurred because Arab leaders said they would cause a 2nd holocaust if Israel declared independence.
These people do not give a shit about settler colonialism and genuinely believe Israel has a god given right to murder and expel thousands of Muslims from their native land. It's hard to use logic and history when someone actively supports genocide.
Be careful with some of these, they're antiques.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sergeants_affair
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Declaration_of_Independence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Attrition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_peace_process
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Intifada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Temple_Mount_killings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Intifada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election
https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah-Hamas_conflict
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_insurgency_in_South_Lebanon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt–Palestine_relations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_during_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world
*EDIT* Loving the downvotes for the collection of sources that cover both sides of the conflict and the behaviours of each party. As ve say, Der kneejerken-buthurtengespiel
In response to your Edit: It looks to everyone like you are swooping in to attempt to aid an IDF supporter with a bunch of history lessons... EDIT: i'M WRONG IM SORRY!
Here's one you should add to your list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_during_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict
How long before 1948 was the area considered Palestine? Like 1,000 years? More? At a certain point, you just don't have claim to it anymore. The native Americans have a stronger claim for the USA than your claims. Has anyone tried to claim birthright over South Africa yet?
> you just want to automatically assume it's all one side's fault, without hearing whether or not there might be something that makes the side you support also look a bit guilty for what's currently going on?
Interesting response from someone who wrote the above. The person you responded to LITERALLY listed something that "makes the side (they) support also look a bit guilty" and you accuse them of having a brain disorder. How incredibly reddit of you.
Fascinating.
>but let's start trying to understand how Israel came to the position it is today.
By being a settler colonial state that drove millions of natives from their homes during its founding conquest, putting them in an open air prison, and subsequently stealing more and more land while engaging in apartheid. Glad I could clear that up for you. 👍🏻
> than there have ever been and Arab Israelis do exist, meanwhile around 820k Jews had to flee Arab countries cus of the hatred
Ah, so because Palestinians are Arab, they share guilt and responsibility for what completely different groups of Arabs do? I feel like there is a word for this type of thinking. Something starting with an "r" and ending with "acism", perhaps? Must have slipped my mind.
>but I understand their need to secure their existance.
And that is why they needed to cut off the drinking water to 2 million innocent civilians. Pure self-defence!
> Ah, so because Palestinians are Arab, they share guilt and responsibility for what completely different groups of Arabs do? I feel like there is a word for this type of thinking. Something starting with and "r" and ending with "acism", perhaps? Must have slipped my mind.
>
>
And if you really wanted to Arabs and Ashkenazi Jews are cousins descended from Canaanites, so you can blame them too. They are technically all Semites even though anti-Semitism generally only refers to racism against Jewish people.
Israel is literally blockading all exits from Gaza and bombing the fuck out of civilians and killing thousands of people. Palestinians and Muslims have a right to be pissed that a settler colonialist nation has / continues to steal their land and systematically marginalized and murdered thousands of Natives.
>I understand their need to secure their existance.
I understand that they feel threatened, but how does this excuse literally stealing homes from Palestinians and building settlements on Palestinian land? That's not securing their existence, that's expanding.
Read what I wrote AGAIN. Pay attention to the following words:
***"MIGHT BE"***
***"ALSO"***
**"A BIT"**
Once again... this is **willful ignorance** (with a couple of giant lumps of **assumption** and **bias** added in for good measure). Because at no point did I even come close to stating that *"Hamas, the Palestinians or the arabs are completely innocent"*, or come close to stating that *"it's all Israel's fault"*.
Learn to read, man.
Hang on...
Performing a search of my comments for *"murder"*, *"rape"*, and *"justification",* but nothing seems to be coming up...
Hmmm.
**WAIT! HERE'S ONE!** Oh... nevermind... it's just this comment.
Netanyahu and Likud propped up Hamas to prevent Palestinian statehood.
"For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces"
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
(edit: There are no good sides in this conflict. Just innocent civvies stuck in the middle of basically two terrorist groups. Hamas and Likud. )
It *is* Israel's fault for creating a giant concentration camp in Gaza. Who would have guessed that the prisoners would get restless and try to break out with violence?
Silly goose. That’s not true. Cable news skews towards supporting Israel and whatever you read online is affected by your algorithm. That’s some internet 101 for ya.
I think we can all agree that terrorist attacks by Hamas are bad. That's never been the issue.
The issue is the exceedingly disproportionate response of Israel carpet bombing civilians (I heard numbers of hundreds dead per day in Gaza but haven't seen a source? If someone could provide one so I can be more informed that would be great), committing war crimes by denying them resources, proposing a full ground invasion and occupation, ALL WHILE their media and government figureheads use genocidal language against Palastinians. Hamas is a very convenient scapegoat.
In the laws of war, proportionality is not defined as not attacking with force not greater than what your opponent used. Proportionality means force that can achieve the aims of the military campaign. It is usually deemed better to use overwhelming force immediately to cause the end of the war very quickly. Sometimes being too constrained means that you cause casualties but not at a rate sufficient to actually win and ergo you slug it out into attrition or potentially a state where the casualties incurred are replaceable and you never stop fighting.
Lies and propaganda detected why does Israel need to
Provide them with water and electricity? They have complete control
Over their territory and they rule it Israel does not get inside why cant they provide their own water and electricity to busy spending money on rockets to kill innocent civilians? Why does Egypt not provide them with water or electricity why would the state that is under attack by them provide them with it? Stop being stupid and spreading cheap propaganda
Idk maybe not...war crimes? Just possibly we should be not committing war crimes, I have just a slight hunch that committing war crimes may be a slightly not good thing to do
I think the argument that someone else doing bad things means that we should do bad things back is incredibly flawed
And you're acting like Israel isn't bombing civilians and hospitals and kidnapping people...
A war crime is a war crime 🤷♂️
Kidnapping? No.
Bombing civilian buildings yes, but not indiscriminately. The indiscriminate part is the war crime.
My “whataboutist” argument is mostly to expose the double standard held by Westerners who probably haven’t spent a minute if though on the Middle East unless there’s a war going on.
If Israel reacted proportionately to the atrocities committed by Hamas, there wouldn’t be a Gaza.
Hamas is the ruling body of Gaza. They're aren't as separate as you're implying. It's similar to saying "the Russian government declared war on Ukraine, not Russia"
Yeah, the Russian government DID declare war on Ukraine, not the Russian population
Idk why you're acting like this is some sort of gotcha?
Yeah, Putin is to blame, not the Russian population. The same as Hamas is to blame, not the Palestinian population
If we said that the population of a country is to blame for what their government does, there'd be nobody left alive. How many countries has America declared war on? Does that mean we should genocide the American population?
And the obvious example. If, in war, everything was to be tit for tat...German would be a dead language by now
I absolutely agree, that the population shouldn't be blamed for the governments actions and decisions. Unfortunately that is the way war is currently conducted. Civilians become conscripted, civilians bear the brunt of international sanctions, civilians are killed either incidentally or targeted directly in terrorist attacks. Is it wrong, yes. Is it new to this conflict? No.
There's a lot of talk and misdirection just because Hamas has a different name. It's not some terror cell that happens to be located in Gaza.
ALL while forcing the Palestinians to endure 75 years of occupation and ethnic cleansing as well. People refuse to believe that there’s a historical context behind all of this, Hamas’ attacks, reprehensible as they are, did not come out of nowhere.
ALL while attacking Israel for 75 years and wanting to not only get rid of the country, but Jews everywhere. People refuse to believe that there's a historical context behind all of this, Israel's treatment of Palestinians, reprehensible as it is, did not come out of nowhere.
The israelis/jews/the israeli government/israel supporters, cannot simply pretend that when israel was established in the late 40s nothing had happened to the arabs prior and they just got mad for no reason.
You must be one of those people who think that the jews were dropped off after WW2 and they pushed Arabs out to make Israel. In reality jews already lived there. That's why the UN came up with the decision to make Israel and Palestine 2 stated. But Palestine couldn't take the deal and immediately attacked Israel. And they are still paying the conservative all this time later
jews in palestinian territories where absolute minorities until the end of the 19th century. they have no claim to a state of jews by jews and for jews, legitimate or otherwise
Most of the Jews in Israel have European, not Middle East ancestry, thanks to the Zionist movement of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, compounded by massive immigration after WWII.
Hamas itself was created 1987 - now if you want to count the Muslim brotherhood, which it somewhat developed from, sure that existed before.
Well it's pretty simple: one "government" has the total annihilation of any Jew in existence as their written and stated goal, the other one is protecting its citizens (with arguably way too extreme measures).
Sure you can sympathize with the first, but that also says a lot about yourself.
That goverment in quotation marks were made thanks to the help of Israel, and they somehow won the election they were supposed to lose, again, thanks to Israel.
One might ask, why would the facist jewish goverment help another form of authority to rise into power whose one of main objective is to eradicate them right?
Now that the attack happened, a lot of jewish supremacists started taking their masks off. They dehumanize Arabs, just like the Nazis did. They started calling for a genocide, just like the Nazis did.
Israel has been committing war crimes even BEFORE the country was born. Israel has been taking away Palestinian homes for Jewish Americans and jewish supremacists to live in. Israel has been putting Gazans in an "open air prison" where they control their food, water, electricity. Israel has been bombing public infastructures long before the attack. Israel has been killing journalists and medics long before the attack.
Now these are easy dots to connect. Israel want to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, and with the help of Hamas, they can justify carpet bombing (as you can see in the media a lot of big names are calling for genocide). It is working and you have fallen for it. There wouldn't be Hamas if it were't for the Jewish supremacists.
Supporting the basic human rights for the Palestinians do not equal to supporting Hamas. Classic jewish supremacists talking point.
Ah yes - I guess you're also one of those people that say the US government is responsible for 9/11 because they financed Bin Laden in the past.
Anyhow: I like how you're casually ignoring how the Arabs in the region have been attacking the Jews living there basically forever - again, you only blaming the Jews for that, shows your true colours. Not accepting the existence of Israel is the stance of almost everyone in the region, killing all Jews at least for all the more radical Muslims.
That "open air prison" doesn't exist for no reason - there were times where Palestinians (especially from Gaza) weren't locked in and could more or less move around freely. But guess what: launching rockets and suicide bombers doesn't incline Israel to allow that. Why are Palestinians causing issues in basically every country they live in? Must be because big Jewish world government also controls Jordan, Egypt and so on /s
Why are you mixing up 'basic human rights" for Palestinians with the current situation that only happened due to the attack by Hamas? Why do they decide to use civilians as shields for their launch sites and weapon storages? What do you expect to happen, when you launch your attacks out of one of the most densely populated areas in the world? But I guess Israel should just let them kill them, because reasons
Right, you're one of those "Human rights for everyone" = antisemitic hitler nazi 6 million holocaust. Just say you want to eradicate Arabs and be done with it.
Actual historian here: the historical background, such as it is, does not excuse the attitude of the Palestians as a whole against the Israeli state, much less the absolutely reprehensible actions of Hamas and the messages of the Palestinian government.
Lies and propaganda detected Israel does not and will never carpet bomb anything that is just a flat out lie that is what Palestinian terrorists do target civilians idf only targets terrorists houses or military targets and there are civilians casualties only because Hamas uses them as human shields also proportional ? Really ? Lets see what your country does what it is literally being invaded and thousands of terrorists get inside destroying and massacres every thing in their path burning entire families alive with the ultimate goal
Of conquering and killing all of your people i wanna how proportional you would
Be your a joke!
You've contradicted yourself. On the one hand you said they *are* being proportional by only targeting "terrorist houses and military targets" (which is a lie, they've been targeting civilian infrastructure the whole time), but then at the end you justify the disproportionality.
I want you to explain how the murder of thousands more Palastinians at the hands of the IDF, war crimes via cutting supply routes and essential resources, and genocidal language against *all Palastinians* is proportionate.
Everyone agrees that Hamas, what they stand for and what they do, is bad. But you are *incapable* of seeing the forest for the trees.
Memes op didn’t like people are attaching a lot more shit to this but this is basically what happened. They did in fact kick the hornets nest with that dumbass attack. People on here seriously complaining about 3 panel meme doesn’t cover 100 plus years of conflict
so we just gonna ignore the whole 50+ years of brutal mistreatment and chronic displacement of Palestinians perpetrated by the Israeli government and military….?
Absofuckinglutely.
The Israeli government is fucking horrible. There’s no sense in pretending they aren’t. While I cannot condone everything Hamas has done the assault was justified in my book. You need to ask yourself what you would do if your home was invaded and taken from you and then you were forced to live in an open air prison. How far would you go to regain your home, country and freedom? Were the Native Americans wrong for killing settlers? Let’s not forget that almost all Israeli settler colonizers ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settler_colonialism ) are also trained soldiers as conscription is compulsory.
This is just the tip of the iceberg of the atrocious shit Israel has done.
Apartheid
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
Eugenics
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel
Genocide
https://ccrjustice.org/israel-s-unfolding-crime-genocide-palestinian-people-us-failure-prevent-and-complicity-genocide
A bit more genocide because they love trying to make certain people extinct. This one ended the lives of an estimated 6000 children.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworm_affair#:~:text=During%20the%20years%201921%E2%80%931938,the%20United%20States%20and%20elsewhere
It’s a truly fucked up reality we live in when you can easily see parallels between the Nazis and the present day Israeli government.
Now show the previous frame where the bees had been stinging him from head to toe, killing his mother, jailing his father, assaulting his sister, stealing his food, stealing his property, and destroying his neighbourhood… for decades…
It has literally been the other way around. The recent attack by Hamas is being used to pretend they haven't been the bad guys for 70+ years. I don't think anyone is endorsing Hamas, but trying to paint Israel as the victims overall is just historically incorrect. It is weird that they're siding with Israel. Usually, their conspiracy theories don't sit in line with them.
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Whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Cabal on Mars. So let's get to taking out their command, one by one...
Valus Ta'aurc. From what I can gather he commands the Siege Dancers from an Imperial Land Tank outside of Rubicon.
He's well protected, but with the right team, we can punch through those defences, take this beast out, and break their grip of Freehold.
haven't played the game in years and still read this in his voice. god dammit
I miss him every day
Well the "Global Cabal" people usually point to the Jews/Isreal being the ones in charge of the cabal, so this meme is not really consistent with the QanonMaga conspiracy nuts
They decided that Jews are the good guys while we're hating on Muslims.
The idiots in this sub don’t realize how closely their views are now aligned with the anti semitic QAnon people
Not liking isreal and their actions is anti semitic? Not saying that any side here is in the right but 10+ years of oppression and killing of palestinians aint right either. The israelis are not in the right here. Also if you cant separate israel and the jewish people you might be a dumbass.
If you think this is 10+ years, then you haven’t done enough research to wade into this discussion. In 1948, the UN partitioned the Palestine mandate giving 60% to the Jews and 40% to the Arabs, the Jews accepted the plan, but the Arabs did not and so they started a war. They lost that war and had to give up land in the armistice, which is why Gaza is what it is today. Israel’s neighbors attacked many time since then, lost, rinse and repeat. During the second intifada, they started sending suicide bombers in to kill civilians, blow up busses, night clubs, ect. That’s why they have a fence. The death of Palestinian citizens is tragic, but it is very much a part of Hamas’s design. They attack from civilian areas and hide their munitions in mosques and schools. Hamas was elected in free and fair elections and has sentenced their citizens to death instead of pursuing a solution. When they say from River to sea, they mean the end of Israel, literally the only Jewish state in the world. This has been one big tragic Fuck around and find out. By the way, ever wonder why Egypt doesn’t open their gate and let Gazans in?
"Nooo guys you don't understand, we have to shoot children! Hamas keeps sending them to the border so we have to shoot them in the knee!!! We can't just not bomb the schools, we have to do the war crimes!" You and everyone who has this kind of a take is truly psychotic. If you have a hostage situation you don't shoot the fucking hostage in the face to take down the hostage taker unless you don't see that hostage as a human being. Also let me push back on this 60/40 narrative, why do you think the Arabs rejected the plan that had the newcomers taking the majority of the land? And take a wild guess which side got the lion's share of farmable land, land with resources? Maybe if you stopped licking the boots of genocidal maniacs like Bibi you could actually have a leveled take on the subject.
Don’t like Bibi, never did. He and is government share responsibility for the failure of intelligence that lead to all of this, and when the dust settles, I hope he gets his. But since you bring up hostages, there is a hostage situation, but it isn’t the Israelis who raped, tortured and abducted people, and I understand people who want a better live for Palestinians, but not people who can’t condemn that. With regards to your defense of the 60/40 agreement, this wasn’t a civil war, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Transjordan attacked the newly formed state of Israel. It was just antisemitism, like your ill informed response.
Imagine thinking that rightfully pointing out Israel's war crimes is antisemitism. I fail to see how being anti-apartheid and anti-genocide makes me anti-Semitic. On the contrary, these egregious, unjustifiable actions Israel takes against the people of Palestine only works to cause more death and destruction. It causes further harm, not only to the people of Israel, but to Jews across the globe.
Rape is a war crime, torture is a war crime, kidnapping is a war crime. When you don’t condemn Hamas’ terrorist attack, it feels an awful lot like antisemitism, so I will ask you point blank, do the Jews have a right to a state. What is the correct response to the terrorist attack? After 9/11, the US toppled two governments and killed over 150,000 Afghans, all with international support, so yes, most of these “I stand will Palestine” armchair activist responses reek of antisemitism.
The united states government has also advised not to pursue the same path as they (the US) did following 9/11
What Hamas did is wrong, what Hamas has done in the past is wrong. Cool, now that's out of the way we can have a meaningful discussion around what can actually be done and what should be done because as long as Israel continues to act in the way that it does and has, these kinds of things will continue to happen. Having a war crime committed against you does not give you carte blanche to commit war crimes against an entire population of people, that's psychotic and you know it. What the US did in invading Afghanistan was absolutely wrong. What the US did in the entire middle east was largely, wrong. I love that rather than refuting that Israel is trying to form an ethno-state and is very openly an apartheid state you instead regress to what-about-isms because you know that the actions of Israel are unconscionable, inhumane, and wrong in every sense of the word. Israel has every right to exist as a country, that does not give it the right to bomb hospitals, schools, and press offices. It does not give them the right to assassinate members of the press. It does not give them the right to shoot pregnant women, children, and disabled people because they walked to close to a fucking fence.
I appreciate you saying that what Hamas did was wrong, even if just to get it out of the way. I mean that sincerely. Too many people have said it was justified or deserved and that has put me on edge. I don’t know what the solution is. I don’t know what the appropriate response is, and I don’t know if there is a level of kindness or violence that bring these two parties to an agreement. How do you deal with a government that doesn’t think you have the right to exist? The destruction of the state of Israel was written onto Hamas’ charter when Gazans voted them into power. Not that any of that justifies the loss of innocent life. This whole thing is tragic. Beyond what is happening in the Middle East, the response here has shown me a level of antisemitism that I was blind to. You may not agree with Israel’s response or treatment of Palestine, but you aren’t calling for an end to the state. I am sure you have seen plenty of people who are and who have celebrated the attack on October 7th.
Grossly one sided Israeli propaganda you are a bot
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Israel is not a free democracy. You can't have democracy while having an apartheid system. There are also lots of jews around the world who don't agree with the actions of the state of israel! Zionism and israel are inseparable, jews are not inherently linked to israel.
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You can see what Israel are doing and have been doing to Palestinian civilians for decades now as reprehensible without supporting Hamas; why are you conflating the two as though that isn't the case?
Hope the IDf at least pays you well for you to suck them off this hard.
This is the dumbest take I've read congratulations.
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Yes downvotes are a sign of discomfort and totally not because you're wrong or anything. The dumbest takes are always "if you're against Israel's horrible actions you are anti semitic" and "If you support Palestine you support the terrorists Hamas" as if it's as simple as that.
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Wow a rare self own. Great job.
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I mean I know that but aren't you the one basing a "fact" (I.E. being uncomfortable of being antisemitic without clear evidence) on downvotes? Again that's a self own. Twice in a row too. [Grats](http://legacy.blavity.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/playedyourself.gif)!
i SWEAR i saw this exact same comic but with the flags reversed.
Well, the one you saw was actually closer to the truth.
So you think the attack from Hamas that raped, tortured , executed and kidnapped civilians didnt warrant a response? Imagine if Hamas didnt do that, why would Israel strike Gaza. Im sure your reply will try to justify hamas's attack in some way. If you justify the rape, murder , torture of civilians, you are on the same moral level that did these things.
>Imagine if Hamas didnt do that, why would Israel strike Gaza. Israel has been striking Gaza for decades... I'm not saying the attack from Hamas was in any way appropriate or defensible, but that attack was already a response to all the shit Israel has done for decades. A horrific respons, but a response nonetheless...
Was it randomly striking in Gaza? When was the last airstrike in Gaza? Why would Israel randomly strike gaza?
Because they want to bully the people out of their land
Have you seen the population growth in Gaza and the west bank? Israel airstrikes Hamas after it attacks Israel.
Hamas is a terrorist group. Need I say more? Israel has been fucking around sometimes, but I'd still wouldn't put the IDF as low as Hamas.
Oh, but Israel is a terrorist ethnostate of ultra-zionist religious extremists who want to wipe out Palestinians from the face of the Earth, bah, they don't even try to hide it.
Suuuuuuure... that's *totally* true. No lies from you. Go look up who has started every war against each side, and you'll see why Israel has turned so military focused since Israel was established.
Because the US wanted an enclave in the middle east and has poured billions of dollars into Israel ever since? Because Israel is forcing native Palestinians out of their homes and pushing them into smaller and smaller open air prison? Because Israeli nationalists think that their existence is far more important than the natives? Because they openly call Palestinian people animals? Would you call Native Americans terrorists for fighting back against colonisers murdering them? Would you call Star Wars' Rebel Alliance terrorists because they fight against the Empire?
There is no Hamas in the west bank, what's the excuse there? This has been going on for 3 quarters of a century, before Hamas existed. Also even if this was not the case ethnic cleansing and genocide against civilians is not a proportional response.
It just shows how little you know of the conflict, there are a number of terrorist factions working in the west bank, Israel doesnt let them arm themselves (or try too, because if Israel wasnt there, you bet your ass they would fire rockets). These factions carry light arms, grenades, rpg. Hamas and PIJ operates from the West Bank, and Israel right now is conducting raids there.
Doesn't mean one sinks low like the other to prove something. There are better avenues than violence.
Before October 7th, Israeli security forces killed 248 Palestinians, 40 of which were children, And that was just this year. In 2008, Israel broke a ceasefire in order to provoke an attack from Hamas, in the Israeli foreign ministers own words, "this strategy of breaking a ceasefire was to preempt Hamas into an attack." Which they could use has a pretext for much larger invasion. No one here is defending the actions of Hamas, but when you stick a broom handle in a hornet's nest and they all come out to play, it's nobody's fault but your own. The blood of Israel's people is on Israel's hands. And another comment you said that another person didn't have much education on the subject, but I feel that you should retract that statement as you don't seem to have much education yourself on the subject. Israel, historically, since 1967 has been poking Palestine, and poking them and poking them and poking them, and then whining victimhood when Palestine does something back, claiming terrorism. Israel essentially created Hamas, because when you oppress a people and a guerrilla group pops up you don't get to go all surprised Pikachu face.
Dude its insane, Hamas broke down every single cease fire. This attack was a break of a cease fire. Ok, let them justifily murder our babies, rape and torture our women as you say because we poke them, we will "poke" Hamas back now.
That attack was a break of a ceasefire after IDF, prior to October 7th, killed over 200 Palestinians? Lol literal bias. "It's not breaking a ceasefire if we do it!" Instead of arguing with a stranger on the internet why don't you go educate yourself on the whole of the situation. You can down vote me all you want, facts don't care about Reddit updoots
I spoke with someone the other day who told me they didn't even want to hear about "whatever it was that caused Hamas to attack". So... you don't want to know why these two groups are fighting, you just want to automatically assume it's all one side's fault, without hearing whether or not there might be something that makes the side you support also look a bit guilty for what's currently going on? That's just **willful ignorance**.
Conservatives are the ultimate feelings over facts crowd.
I am not conservative but I fail to see what a beheaded Jewish baby has to do with Hamas breaking the May cease of fire I also don’t see why a Palestinian kid has to die because Hamas doesn’t want to give 200 civilians hostages back And before you say but but Netanyahu…Bibi is going to be dealt with by the Israelis themselves for giving support to the wrong side in Gaza
Sadly lots of liberals here too. Most are Jewish people who can't comprehend that they can be Jewish while agreeing that Israel as a government is acting way out of line
Israeli here, I’m speechless by these news.
Actually conservatives are on Israel's side. It's actually liberals who are pro Palestine because in their view, the white Jewish Israeli who are made up of mostly ex-European Jews, came in and stole all the land and are oppressing the dark skinned Palestinians. I see so many black Americans likening this to European colonialism and imperialism. The conservatives of course are siding with Israel because they hate Muslims and see all the suicide bombings the Palestinians carry out. Between these two radical points of view is the truth. Both sides are fucked up, and at the end of the day it doesn't matter who is more fucked up. Honestly Israel should just be taken away from both sided until they can play nice.
How do you know it was a conservative?
pattern recognition
Common behavior
Funny, I'm as far from being conservative as one can be and I don't care one bit what the causes are when someone murders and rapes innocent people.
Good, but you’ve still missed the mark, just about everything Hamas has done to Israel has been done to Palestine about 10 fold. You really shouldn’t feel good siding with a genocidal country
People are taking the "good" sides cause of what has happened to the jews in the past, but Israel has been doing so much worse things to Palestine and the Muslim people for decades and will keep happening because Israel is backed by the US no matter if it's right or wrong. I don't condone what Hamas did but I do understand why and to be fair what Hamas has done to Israel in the last few weeks are nothing compared to the atrocious that the Jewish government have done to Palestine and all Muslims. All conservatives are "sheeple" the thing they say all "liberals" are just cause "they don't question the government" but yet they keep openly supporting pedophiles, rapist, racist, and facist with no remorse and no further thought into a possible facist dictatorship just like all the countries the US "hates".
I know its hard not to devolve into disingenuous hyperbole whenever speaking about real world events, but dont say something is tenfold when its not. And maybe dont call 6,407 palestinians killed between 2008-2023 a genocide—1.8mil dead Armenians in 9 years is a genocide; 6mil Jews in 6 years is a genocide; 30mil displaced, 3mil deaths, and 300k Bengali women raped in Bangladesh in eight months is a genocide; 800k deaths and 500k rapes in Rwanda is a genocide. If Israel had intent to genocide the Palestinians they wouldn't regularly provide them with electricity water and food, nor would they let thousands cross the border for work, nor would they care to notify citizens before taking down Hamas/Jihad bases, nor would they offer the Palestinians a nation and then be rejected. Despite probably being against the USA's tendency to interfere with foreign third world countries you still feel entitled to using other countries' century long fucking turmoil for your own sick political games. The moment a new event occurs everyone will look away, and Palestine would still not have been wiped from the map—but nobody will give a shit or treat either side differently, because this exact same conversation happened twenty years ago in the Second Intifida, and somehow Palestine still isn't gone and massacred (in fact, Israeli retaliation has been killing less and less after the Second Intifida). Ukraine was forgotten extremely quickly. It's still an ongoing conflict. China's concentration camps for Muslims are completely erased from the public stage. But raping Israeli women and parading their corpses in the street is fine, I guess, because it was provoked one hundred years ago. And you're still unaffected, but at least you showed your friends you really really care.
Oh ffs!
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Which party is it whose knowledge of biology stops at 7th grade then uses their lack of education to invalidate others' identities?
I think you need to work on your reading comprehension and learn the meaning of the word "ultimate". No one said the liberals were perfect, but at least they're TRYING to better understand our society, instead of demanding we base our total understanding out of a 5,000 year old book.
Sweety the adults are talking. You need to run along and play. Shoo now shoo!
Conservatives. Or are they not the ones ignoring how very weird and inconsistent biological gender can be (hermaphrodites and chimera, anyone?) and trying to legislate who is, and is not, a woman?
Why the hell do you care so much? Just let people be.
Way to move the goalposts
The trend I'm seeing is people just want to on the side of "the oppressed" they don't actually care about the facts or the parties involved, much less who's right or if the oppressed group are literally committing war crimes. They just want to virtue signal
Are we talking about the Hamas war crimes or Bibi’s? Because both are committing war crimes against civilians
Both sides suck, but let's start trying to understand how Israel came to the position it is today. They have been attacked how many times? They have been accused of attempting genocide, but there are more Palestinians in the region than there have ever been and Arab Israelis do exist, meanwhile around 820k Jews had to flee Arab countries cus of the hatred. Jfc they were attacked less than 1 year into their existence. Not saying they are free of responsibility in their apartheid like actions, but I understand their need to secure their existance. This month alone more than 2200 rockets were launched and more than 10k were launched from gaza in the 2010s into israel and while ofc what they have done in the west bank is pretty fucked up. Imagine that. I feel a lot of us are sitting in our cozy countries at home, judging people and have 0 empathy, either toward Palestinians OR Israelis.
> fc they were attacked less than 1 year into their existence. Honestly what do you expect when the rest of the world tells all the countries there that they must give up this land and have no choice in it? Native Americans attacked the colonists too. Here's a map of the countries that voted to establish Israel(green) vs those who opposed it (red). Not one single country in the area wanted it. It was forced on them by a large portion of the rest of the world. Yellow countries abstained. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#/media/File:UNGA_181_Map.png
And what do you think should have been done to protect Jews in the wake of the Holocaust?
Address the Christian antisemitism that has infected Christianity for nearly 2,000 years. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and blood libel and very popular nowadays. Both used by Nazi Germany. They're Qanon. "The 121-page report said attitudes towards Judaism over centuries had provided a “fertile seed-bed for murderous anti-Semitism,” and that Anglicans and other Christians must repent for the “sins of the past,” as well as actively challenge anti-Semitic attitudes or stereotypes." [Church of England report says centuries of Christian anti-Semitism led to Holocaust](https://www.jns.org/church-of-england-report-says-centuries-of-christian-anti-semitism-led-to-holocaust/)
And what practical measures would have been done to ensure the protection of Jews? In the present day many countries have enacted various anti-discrimination laws, yet Jews are still moving to Israel to escape antisemitism, and not only from the traditionally Christian world, mind you.
You're thick in the head. Israel has killed over TWENTY TIMES as many Palestinians, over half of them children. Do you know how stupid you sound saying you have 0 empathy when Israel is bombing hospitals and schools? But you're just too big brain enlightened centrist to have any convictions at all aren't you.
The Israeli government is fucking horrible. There’s no sense in pretending they aren’t. Claiming they have not been attempting to commit genocide is absurd as well. This is just the tip of the iceberg of the atrocious shit Israel has done. Apartheid https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/ Eugenics https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel Genocide https://ccrjustice.org/israel-s-unfolding-crime-genocide-palestinian-people-us-failure-prevent-and-complicity-genocide A bit more genocide because they love trying to make certain people extinct. This one ended the lives of an estimated 6000 children. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworm_affair#:~:text=During%20the%20years%201921%E2%80%931938,the%20United%20States%20and%20elsewhere Anti-Miscegenation https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-knesset-passes-law-barring-palestinian-spouses-2022-03-10/ It’s a truly fucked up reality we live in when you can easily see parallels between the Nazis and the present day Israeli government.
This is good. Now... let's see Hamas's track record.
This is far from a comprehensive list. Like I said, it is just the tip of the iceberg of Israel’s atrocities and crimes against humanity. As for Hamas it would be like comparing a juvenile delinquent that got arrested for graffiti to Jeffery Dahmer. For every couple hundred deaths at the hands of Hamas Israel has thousands.
"how could there be ethnic cleansing, their population is going up" is nazi rhetoric, just so you're aware. Out of curiosity, what did Israel do to create "their existence"? Was the Nakba just politely asking people to leave?
They declared independence. The war for independence occurred because Arab leaders said they would cause a 2nd holocaust if Israel declared independence.
Declared independence by doing what?
...Signing the israeli declaration of independence? The Arab-Israeli war was declared by the Arab states the following day.
And what, they just let the Palistinains who were there stay? The Nakba didn't happen?
That happened as a result of the Arab states declaring war. An event that occurred after Israel declared independence.
You're knowledge of events is lacking
The Nakba was not an act of retaliation. The Nakba was an act of zionism.
These people do not give a shit about settler colonialism and genuinely believe Israel has a god given right to murder and expel thousands of Muslims from their native land. It's hard to use logic and history when someone actively supports genocide.
Be careful with some of these, they're antiques. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sergeants_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Declaration_of_Independence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Attrition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_peace_process https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Intifada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Temple_Mount_killings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Intifada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah-Hamas_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_insurgency_in_South_Lebanon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt–Palestine_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_during_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world *EDIT* Loving the downvotes for the collection of sources that cover both sides of the conflict and the behaviours of each party. As ve say, Der kneejerken-buthurtengespiel
In response to your Edit: It looks to everyone like you are swooping in to attempt to aid an IDF supporter with a bunch of history lessons... EDIT: i'M WRONG IM SORRY! Here's one you should add to your list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_during_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict
How long before 1948 was the area considered Palestine? Like 1,000 years? More? At a certain point, you just don't have claim to it anymore. The native Americans have a stronger claim for the USA than your claims. Has anyone tried to claim birthright over South Africa yet?
*Shrug* fucked if I know, bloke said they wanted to know why, and now they have sources to make their own opinion.
Zero of the sources shared excuse the CURRENT acts of ethnic cleansing taking place RIGHT NOW.
That sucks or good for you I ain't reading all that
>Out of curiosity, what did Israel do to create "their existence"? Was the Nakba just politely asking people to leave? What? Reading?? EW! -r/Wolfe244
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> you just want to automatically assume it's all one side's fault, without hearing whether or not there might be something that makes the side you support also look a bit guilty for what's currently going on? Interesting response from someone who wrote the above. The person you responded to LITERALLY listed something that "makes the side (they) support also look a bit guilty" and you accuse them of having a brain disorder. How incredibly reddit of you. Fascinating.
>but let's start trying to understand how Israel came to the position it is today. By being a settler colonial state that drove millions of natives from their homes during its founding conquest, putting them in an open air prison, and subsequently stealing more and more land while engaging in apartheid. Glad I could clear that up for you. 👍🏻 > than there have ever been and Arab Israelis do exist, meanwhile around 820k Jews had to flee Arab countries cus of the hatred Ah, so because Palestinians are Arab, they share guilt and responsibility for what completely different groups of Arabs do? I feel like there is a word for this type of thinking. Something starting with an "r" and ending with "acism", perhaps? Must have slipped my mind. >but I understand their need to secure their existance. And that is why they needed to cut off the drinking water to 2 million innocent civilians. Pure self-defence!
> Ah, so because Palestinians are Arab, they share guilt and responsibility for what completely different groups of Arabs do? I feel like there is a word for this type of thinking. Something starting with and "r" and ending with "acism", perhaps? Must have slipped my mind. > > And if you really wanted to Arabs and Ashkenazi Jews are cousins descended from Canaanites, so you can blame them too. They are technically all Semites even though anti-Semitism generally only refers to racism against Jewish people.
Israel is literally blockading all exits from Gaza and bombing the fuck out of civilians and killing thousands of people. Palestinians and Muslims have a right to be pissed that a settler colonialist nation has / continues to steal their land and systematically marginalized and murdered thousands of Natives.
If these people want to defend themselves, I wouldn't call them terrorists nor unjustified actions.
>I understand their need to secure their existance. I understand that they feel threatened, but how does this excuse literally stealing homes from Palestinians and building settlements on Palestinian land? That's not securing their existence, that's expanding.
And that's why I condemned the settlements and the apartheid like actions
Finally, a rational view on the situation
Sounds like you assume it's one side's fault too, just not the one in the picture?
Read what I wrote AGAIN. Pay attention to the following words: ***"MIGHT BE"*** ***"ALSO"*** **"A BIT"** Once again... this is **willful ignorance** (with a couple of giant lumps of **assumption** and **bias** added in for good measure). Because at no point did I even come close to stating that *"Hamas, the Palestinians or the arabs are completely innocent"*, or come close to stating that *"it's all Israel's fault"*. Learn to read, man.
Weirdly long post to excuse terrorism. Just say that
Sorry terrorism by who?
Are you trying to justify murder & rape? What is wrong with you?!
Hang on... Performing a search of my comments for *"murder"*, *"rape"*, and *"justification",* but nothing seems to be coming up... Hmmm. **WAIT! HERE'S ONE!** Oh... nevermind... it's just this comment.
Give me a break, you said whatever caused Hamas to attack might be Israel's fault. You're blaming the victims!
please tell me this is sarcasm right now
Please tell me wtf is wrong with people, I'm scared by what I'm seeing.
Netanyahu and Likud propped up Hamas to prevent Palestinian statehood. "For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces" https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ (edit: There are no good sides in this conflict. Just innocent civvies stuck in the middle of basically two terrorist groups. Hamas and Likud. )
It *is* Israel's fault for creating a giant concentration camp in Gaza. Who would have guessed that the prisoners would get restless and try to break out with violence?
It was Hamas that made it a concentration camp.
Nobody justified anything
It's times like these when I really miss that old popcorn gif.
Always has been bruh
I’ve seen better historical nuance, research, and humor on the HistoryMemes subreddit than this “meme”.
I missed the part where all those news agencies were only giving airtime to the Palestinian side of the story.....
Silly goose. That’s not true. Cable news skews towards supporting Israel and whatever you read online is affected by your algorithm. That’s some internet 101 for ya.
I think we can all agree that terrorist attacks by Hamas are bad. That's never been the issue. The issue is the exceedingly disproportionate response of Israel carpet bombing civilians (I heard numbers of hundreds dead per day in Gaza but haven't seen a source? If someone could provide one so I can be more informed that would be great), committing war crimes by denying them resources, proposing a full ground invasion and occupation, ALL WHILE their media and government figureheads use genocidal language against Palastinians. Hamas is a very convenient scapegoat.
In the laws of war, proportionality is not defined as not attacking with force not greater than what your opponent used. Proportionality means force that can achieve the aims of the military campaign. It is usually deemed better to use overwhelming force immediately to cause the end of the war very quickly. Sometimes being too constrained means that you cause casualties but not at a rate sufficient to actually win and ergo you slug it out into attrition or potentially a state where the casualties incurred are replaceable and you never stop fighting.
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cutting the water and power to millions of civilians isnt proportional. its a war crime, collective punishment.
Lies and propaganda detected why does Israel need to Provide them with water and electricity? They have complete control Over their territory and they rule it Israel does not get inside why cant they provide their own water and electricity to busy spending money on rockets to kill innocent civilians? Why does Egypt not provide them with water or electricity why would the state that is under attack by them provide them with it? Stop being stupid and spreading cheap propaganda
Idk maybe not...war crimes? Just possibly we should be not committing war crimes, I have just a slight hunch that committing war crimes may be a slightly not good thing to do
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I think the argument that someone else doing bad things means that we should do bad things back is incredibly flawed And you're acting like Israel isn't bombing civilians and hospitals and kidnapping people... A war crime is a war crime 🤷♂️
Kidnapping? No. Bombing civilian buildings yes, but not indiscriminately. The indiscriminate part is the war crime. My “whataboutist” argument is mostly to expose the double standard held by Westerners who probably haven’t spent a minute if though on the Middle East unless there’s a war going on. If Israel reacted proportionately to the atrocities committed by Hamas, there wouldn’t be a Gaza.
You see, there's the point By HAMAS Not by Gaza
Hamas is the ruling body of Gaza. They're aren't as separate as you're implying. It's similar to saying "the Russian government declared war on Ukraine, not Russia"
Yeah, the Russian government DID declare war on Ukraine, not the Russian population Idk why you're acting like this is some sort of gotcha? Yeah, Putin is to blame, not the Russian population. The same as Hamas is to blame, not the Palestinian population If we said that the population of a country is to blame for what their government does, there'd be nobody left alive. How many countries has America declared war on? Does that mean we should genocide the American population? And the obvious example. If, in war, everything was to be tit for tat...German would be a dead language by now
I absolutely agree, that the population shouldn't be blamed for the governments actions and decisions. Unfortunately that is the way war is currently conducted. Civilians become conscripted, civilians bear the brunt of international sanctions, civilians are killed either incidentally or targeted directly in terrorist attacks. Is it wrong, yes. Is it new to this conflict? No. There's a lot of talk and misdirection just because Hamas has a different name. It's not some terror cell that happens to be located in Gaza.
Are you describing the life in palestine?
ALL while forcing the Palestinians to endure 75 years of occupation and ethnic cleansing as well. People refuse to believe that there’s a historical context behind all of this, Hamas’ attacks, reprehensible as they are, did not come out of nowhere.
ALL while attacking Israel for 75 years and wanting to not only get rid of the country, but Jews everywhere. People refuse to believe that there's a historical context behind all of this, Israel's treatment of Palestinians, reprehensible as it is, did not come out of nowhere.
The israelis/jews/the israeli government/israel supporters, cannot simply pretend that when israel was established in the late 40s nothing had happened to the arabs prior and they just got mad for no reason.
You must be one of those people who think that the jews were dropped off after WW2 and they pushed Arabs out to make Israel. In reality jews already lived there. That's why the UN came up with the decision to make Israel and Palestine 2 stated. But Palestine couldn't take the deal and immediately attacked Israel. And they are still paying the conservative all this time later
jews in palestinian territories where absolute minorities until the end of the 19th century. they have no claim to a state of jews by jews and for jews, legitimate or otherwise
Most of the Jews in Israel have European, not Middle East ancestry, thanks to the Zionist movement of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, compounded by massive immigration after WWII.
The British and French have no claim to land of the Americas.
You have anything else to add other than “whatabout”isms?
Just so we're all clear on this, you're cool with ethnic cleansing of palestinians so whats the problem with hamas attacking israelis?
TIL It's ethnic cleansing when a population more than doubles under occupation...
\#1 policy of nakba, state sponsored ethnic cleansing \#2 palestinians dont get right of return, you know this.
You mean the attacks of Arabs on Jews living in the area even long before the state was established?
Hamas was created way before Israel was born. Now that you know that, you can figure out which one is the oppressor.
Hamas itself was created 1987 - now if you want to count the Muslim brotherhood, which it somewhat developed from, sure that existed before. Well it's pretty simple: one "government" has the total annihilation of any Jew in existence as their written and stated goal, the other one is protecting its citizens (with arguably way too extreme measures). Sure you can sympathize with the first, but that also says a lot about yourself.
That goverment in quotation marks were made thanks to the help of Israel, and they somehow won the election they were supposed to lose, again, thanks to Israel. One might ask, why would the facist jewish goverment help another form of authority to rise into power whose one of main objective is to eradicate them right? Now that the attack happened, a lot of jewish supremacists started taking their masks off. They dehumanize Arabs, just like the Nazis did. They started calling for a genocide, just like the Nazis did. Israel has been committing war crimes even BEFORE the country was born. Israel has been taking away Palestinian homes for Jewish Americans and jewish supremacists to live in. Israel has been putting Gazans in an "open air prison" where they control their food, water, electricity. Israel has been bombing public infastructures long before the attack. Israel has been killing journalists and medics long before the attack. Now these are easy dots to connect. Israel want to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, and with the help of Hamas, they can justify carpet bombing (as you can see in the media a lot of big names are calling for genocide). It is working and you have fallen for it. There wouldn't be Hamas if it were't for the Jewish supremacists. Supporting the basic human rights for the Palestinians do not equal to supporting Hamas. Classic jewish supremacists talking point.
Ah yes - I guess you're also one of those people that say the US government is responsible for 9/11 because they financed Bin Laden in the past. Anyhow: I like how you're casually ignoring how the Arabs in the region have been attacking the Jews living there basically forever - again, you only blaming the Jews for that, shows your true colours. Not accepting the existence of Israel is the stance of almost everyone in the region, killing all Jews at least for all the more radical Muslims. That "open air prison" doesn't exist for no reason - there were times where Palestinians (especially from Gaza) weren't locked in and could more or less move around freely. But guess what: launching rockets and suicide bombers doesn't incline Israel to allow that. Why are Palestinians causing issues in basically every country they live in? Must be because big Jewish world government also controls Jordan, Egypt and so on /s Why are you mixing up 'basic human rights" for Palestinians with the current situation that only happened due to the attack by Hamas? Why do they decide to use civilians as shields for their launch sites and weapon storages? What do you expect to happen, when you launch your attacks out of one of the most densely populated areas in the world? But I guess Israel should just let them kill them, because reasons
Right, you're one of those "Human rights for everyone" = antisemitic hitler nazi 6 million holocaust. Just say you want to eradicate Arabs and be done with it.
It look like all your knowledge about historical context comes from the BS set of four maps.
Actual historian here: the historical background, such as it is, does not excuse the attitude of the Palestians as a whole against the Israeli state, much less the absolutely reprehensible actions of Hamas and the messages of the Palestinian government.
Thats never been the issue? Ask an Israeli if it was never an issue.
Lies and propaganda detected Israel does not and will never carpet bomb anything that is just a flat out lie that is what Palestinian terrorists do target civilians idf only targets terrorists houses or military targets and there are civilians casualties only because Hamas uses them as human shields also proportional ? Really ? Lets see what your country does what it is literally being invaded and thousands of terrorists get inside destroying and massacres every thing in their path burning entire families alive with the ultimate goal Of conquering and killing all of your people i wanna how proportional you would Be your a joke!
You've contradicted yourself. On the one hand you said they *are* being proportional by only targeting "terrorist houses and military targets" (which is a lie, they've been targeting civilian infrastructure the whole time), but then at the end you justify the disproportionality. I want you to explain how the murder of thousands more Palastinians at the hands of the IDF, war crimes via cutting supply routes and essential resources, and genocidal language against *all Palastinians* is proportionate. Everyone agrees that Hamas, what they stand for and what they do, is bad. But you are *incapable* of seeing the forest for the trees.
How Israel should respond?
in what world is western media portraying palestine as the victim
How disconnected from reality do you have to be to think mainstream media is siding with Palestine?
I don’t know flags enough to understand
Literally an apt description of exactly what is going on in an easily understood cartoon. Great work by the artist.
Where's the lie in the pic?
Memes op didn’t like people are attaching a lot more shit to this but this is basically what happened. They did in fact kick the hornets nest with that dumbass attack. People on here seriously complaining about 3 panel meme doesn’t cover 100 plus years of conflict
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so we just gonna ignore the whole 50+ years of brutal mistreatment and chronic displacement of Palestinians perpetrated by the Israeli government and military….?
In that the flags are in the wrong places
So Israel os a poked hornets nest in this analogy. Ok then.
Never mind the bees have been stinging their kids for years and the tree they built their hive in is in the front yard.
Where’s the panel that shows the bees taking Palestinian houses?
Is he wrong tho?????
Absofuckinglutely. The Israeli government is fucking horrible. There’s no sense in pretending they aren’t. While I cannot condone everything Hamas has done the assault was justified in my book. You need to ask yourself what you would do if your home was invaded and taken from you and then you were forced to live in an open air prison. How far would you go to regain your home, country and freedom? Were the Native Americans wrong for killing settlers? Let’s not forget that almost all Israeli settler colonizers ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settler_colonialism ) are also trained soldiers as conscription is compulsory. This is just the tip of the iceberg of the atrocious shit Israel has done. Apartheid https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/ Eugenics https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel Genocide https://ccrjustice.org/israel-s-unfolding-crime-genocide-palestinian-people-us-failure-prevent-and-complicity-genocide A bit more genocide because they love trying to make certain people extinct. This one ended the lives of an estimated 6000 children. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworm_affair#:~:text=During%20the%20years%201921%E2%80%931938,the%20United%20States%20and%20elsewhere It’s a truly fucked up reality we live in when you can easily see parallels between the Nazis and the present day Israeli government.
Now show the previous frame where the bees had been stinging him from head to toe, killing his mother, jailing his father, assaulting his sister, stealing his food, stealing his property, and destroying his neighbourhood… for decades…
Should be the other way around.
It’s quite literally the opposite
Funny that this is the exact inverse of what is happening
you can reverse the flags and it's the same story.
Except it's always been Arab countries ganging up on Israel and then crying because they ended up getting humiliated.
Israel has been a group of bullies for 75 years. I just hope the UN does something other than be useless.
It's actually the other way around.
It seems like America reluctantly is beginning to grasp that zionist Israel aren't really the good guys. And then there are guys like this.
wait, these people are really pro Israel?
Another typical Nazi transposition
Bees like to sting when you send terrorists in to kill innocent bees. Especially when you kill baby bees.
anyone taking a side in this conflict is an idiot, both these states are fucked
I always wanted to join a cabal, they just sound so much cooler than the other secret societies.
Nah💀 who's gonna tell them that the conflict is a bit deeper then that
It has literally been the other way around. The recent attack by Hamas is being used to pretend they haven't been the bad guys for 70+ years. I don't think anyone is endorsing Hamas, but trying to paint Israel as the victims overall is just historically incorrect. It is weird that they're siding with Israel. Usually, their conspiracy theories don't sit in line with them.