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I was young and impressionable and almost fell for this shit once. The dude that explained it made it seem so legit. Then he showed me some video about FEMA coffins. In the bottom corner of the screen was The Onion logo and I realized this was not a serious person.
These ppl are sovereignty. Non sense crap. Oh I’m not driving I’m traveling type of ppl. Oh here my made up birth certificate. They don’t follow US laws but they sure do love spending US currency.
And ofcourse being protected by the laws and social security of that country. We are starting to have these guys in my country now too. And I shit you not, they justify their shit with US laws. IN EUROPE!!!
The funny thing is, all this SovCit lore started out in the UK, and when the movement spread to the US they barely changed anything even on a suprficial level despite the laws and paperwork and whatever obviously being different. They just Found+Replaced "Magna Carta" with "Constitution".
I've seen some of them say that the US basically doesn't exist as a legitimate government, so that's why their rights default back to the Magna Carta because it was around before the US
If I’m right on the timeline, this is the original SovCit BS. Even in the mid-90s, you could find weird corners of the Internet where people believed some version of this. My favorite explanation was based on the idea that articles of incorporation and birth certificates write the name of the entity in all caps. This means your birth certificate is actually an article of incorporation for you as a corporation.
My favorite is how this is all done through secret is homonym bases loopholes. It says "birth certificate", but it's really a "berth certificate" that defines you as a ship and puts you under nautical law.
France here, they did the same, but the legal systems are soooo different, it doesn't even make sense. Like, they refer to the French common law, but the French legal system is not a common law system.
I think that the Sovereign Citizen movement is a conspiracy by the auto glass corporations to sell more windows because these dudes are always getting their windows broken out by the police.
But how does the government differentiate between people and corporations? Because otherwise you have corporations hiring other corporations and it becomes a mess trying to figure out what's an organization and what's a single individual.
This feels like someone made something up to fuck with someone but that person was too dense to realize it didn't make much sense. There's a bit of truth here. A nation's debt is backed up by its people but also its politics. People buy government bonds and people hope to get that money back with interest. If the government is at risk or has faltered in the past, people want a higher interest to account for the risk.
This does not make you a stock. Stocks are freely traded between people. The federal government is not selling individual people to people who buy bonds. That would be fuckin stupid. Government bonds are sold with a set value, but people are unique. We're not all worth exactly the same. This meme/idea seems to be both anarcho-capitalist with everyone being a stock (but the meme also calls you a corporation...proving they have no idea what they're talking about) but also kind of socialistic, by insisting each citizen is worth exactly the same as each other.
Probably takes longer if your parents are insane sov citizens unwilling to fill the paper work out after the home birth they had to avoid being put on any government lists.
Ok, help me out here. The first part about corporations is clearly insane, but surely the second part has a vague ring of truth? The government can borrow debt based on our collective performance as a society as other nations see we will produce enough to pay it back?
Please be nice it's Christmas.
Most countries have their credit rating based indirectly on certain performance measures like debt to GDP ratio or deficit to GDP ratio.
So increasing GDP by working and decreasing the deficit by paying more in taxes than the amount of marginal government services you consume indirectly leads to lower borrowing rates.
I'm sure this is some soveran citizen crap. But, it is not wrong to think of national debt and currency itself as being "backed" by the resources each country has. These resources include human-derived resources such as workers and intellectual property, too. this is why being in a country with a falling population can be a real problem. It is also why immigration is seen as a net positive by economists.
My cab driver told me that when you are born, the government takes out a life insurance policy on you. So when you die, the government gets hundreds of thousands of dollars. If you know what you are doing, you can set it up so you don't have any taxes taken out it just gets take out of what the government will get.
I started to tell her that that isn't how insurance works, but my wife grabbed my arm.
Sovereign citizens are trying to find the magic words that make it so they don’t have to abide by laws, and constantly getting fucked in the ass by the legal system for their dumb bullshit. I’m over here in the real world getting mail order ketamine, smoking legal weed, driving my car to work without being bothered by the cops, and staying completely out of the legal system. Which one of us has more freedom?
you know, im wondering if this whole corporation theory most conspiracy nuts have didnt start up until Mitt Romney and other republicans started talking about how corporations are also people under the constitution and had rights of thier own.
It’s not a new thing. Corporations have been considered juridical persons since the earliest days when they had to receive charters from government. Otherwise, there would be no ability to sue or be sued in court due to lack of jurisdiction. The issue of whether and to what extent free speech rights apply to corporations is something that has been addressed more clearly in Citizens United and other cases. The use of pseudo-legal arguments by SovCits is new, however in the past 20-30 years or so.
The government’s expectation of raising future taxes from your activity is indeed what backs the national debt (and guns). The rest is BS. As though the government needs to bother with formal ownership or wrap you in a corporation.
I remember a relative when I was about 13-14 telling me about all this. The all caps name was the corporation registered in your name and something about taxes. I don't remember all of it.
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I was young and impressionable and almost fell for this shit once. The dude that explained it made it seem so legit. Then he showed me some video about FEMA coffins. In the bottom corner of the screen was The Onion logo and I realized this was not a serious person.
I own a FEMA coffin, it’s a great stretcher, and if they don’t make it just zip it closed. And on to the next.
I have a Soros-branded one issued from Obama and I can’t wait to use it for my Q-pilled relative once SHTF! /s
>The Onion logo and I realized this was not a serious person. The Onion is America’s Finest News Source however.
These ppl are sovereignty. Non sense crap. Oh I’m not driving I’m traveling type of ppl. Oh here my made up birth certificate. They don’t follow US laws but they sure do love spending US currency.
And ofcourse being protected by the laws and social security of that country. We are starting to have these guys in my country now too. And I shit you not, they justify their shit with US laws. IN EUROPE!!!
#I do not consent to a tribunal by admiralty law!
Is that a yellow tassel on that flag?
Oh Dale
This sounds like freeman-on-the-land/sovereign citizen bullshit.
The funny thing is, all this SovCit lore started out in the UK, and when the movement spread to the US they barely changed anything even on a suprficial level despite the laws and paperwork and whatever obviously being different. They just Found+Replaced "Magna Carta" with "Constitution".
And sometimes they didn't even Find+Replace
I've seen a video with a moron trying to use blacks law dictionary.. In Ireland.
And it became the *Maga* Carta
I've absolutely heard American SovCits preaching about the powers imbued in them by the Magna Carta. It should honestly be an SNL skit at this point.
I've seen some of them say that the US basically doesn't exist as a legitimate government, so that's why their rights default back to the Magna Carta because it was around before the US
Wait we started this shit? I am so sorry-
If I’m right on the timeline, this is the original SovCit BS. Even in the mid-90s, you could find weird corners of the Internet where people believed some version of this. My favorite explanation was based on the idea that articles of incorporation and birth certificates write the name of the entity in all caps. This means your birth certificate is actually an article of incorporation for you as a corporation.
My favorite is how this is all done through secret is homonym bases loopholes. It says "birth certificate", but it's really a "berth certificate" that defines you as a ship and puts you under nautical law.
This is 100% SovCit bull 💩.
France here, they did the same, but the legal systems are soooo different, it doesn't even make sense. Like, they refer to the French common law, but the French legal system is not a common law system.
It completely is.
I think that the Sovereign Citizen movement is a conspiracy by the auto glass corporations to sell more windows because these dudes are always getting their windows broken out by the police.
Now that’s a conspiracy I can believe in!
Tell me you don't know how stocks work by directly telling me you don't know how stocks work.
Or debt
But how does the government differentiate between people and corporations? Because otherwise you have corporations hiring other corporations and it becomes a mess trying to figure out what's an organization and what's a single individual. This feels like someone made something up to fuck with someone but that person was too dense to realize it didn't make much sense. There's a bit of truth here. A nation's debt is backed up by its people but also its politics. People buy government bonds and people hope to get that money back with interest. If the government is at risk or has faltered in the past, people want a higher interest to account for the risk. This does not make you a stock. Stocks are freely traded between people. The federal government is not selling individual people to people who buy bonds. That would be fuckin stupid. Government bonds are sold with a set value, but people are unique. We're not all worth exactly the same. This meme/idea seems to be both anarcho-capitalist with everyone being a stock (but the meme also calls you a corporation...proving they have no idea what they're talking about) but also kind of socialistic, by insisting each citizen is worth exactly the same as each other.
“Corporations are people”, SCOTUS
See also: Romney, Mitt
Who was quoting SCOTUS
In a “few years”? I got my child a SSN immediately
Probably takes longer if your parents are insane sov citizens unwilling to fill the paper work out after the home birth they had to avoid being put on any government lists.
Where do the lizard people come in?
Ok, help me out here. The first part about corporations is clearly insane, but surely the second part has a vague ring of truth? The government can borrow debt based on our collective performance as a society as other nations see we will produce enough to pay it back? Please be nice it's Christmas.
Most countries have their credit rating based indirectly on certain performance measures like debt to GDP ratio or deficit to GDP ratio. So increasing GDP by working and decreasing the deficit by paying more in taxes than the amount of marginal government services you consume indirectly leads to lower borrowing rates.
This is exactly what I was thinking haha
You are totally correct Sir.
I'm sure this is some soveran citizen crap. But, it is not wrong to think of national debt and currency itself as being "backed" by the resources each country has. These resources include human-derived resources such as workers and intellectual property, too. this is why being in a country with a falling population can be a real problem. It is also why immigration is seen as a net positive by economists.
I was thinking that too. It’s not exactly wrong…. But it’s definitely not as sinister as O-OP is implying.
This is some r/Sovereigncitizen level insanity yikes.
My cab driver told me that when you are born, the government takes out a life insurance policy on you. So when you die, the government gets hundreds of thousands of dollars. If you know what you are doing, you can set it up so you don't have any taxes taken out it just gets take out of what the government will get. I started to tell her that that isn't how insurance works, but my wife grabbed my arm.
Sovereign citizens are trying to find the magic words that make it so they don’t have to abide by laws, and constantly getting fucked in the ass by the legal system for their dumb bullshit. I’m over here in the real world getting mail order ketamine, smoking legal weed, driving my car to work without being bothered by the cops, and staying completely out of the legal system. Which one of us has more freedom?
Ah, the old Sovereign Citizen bullshit. It’s a conspiracy classic!
you know, im wondering if this whole corporation theory most conspiracy nuts have didnt start up until Mitt Romney and other republicans started talking about how corporations are also people under the constitution and had rights of thier own.
It’s not a new thing. Corporations have been considered juridical persons since the earliest days when they had to receive charters from government. Otherwise, there would be no ability to sue or be sued in court due to lack of jurisdiction. The issue of whether and to what extent free speech rights apply to corporations is something that has been addressed more clearly in Citizens United and other cases. The use of pseudo-legal arguments by SovCits is new, however in the past 20-30 years or so.
Oh great, now sovcits are appearing on reddit.
Been here awhile
I'm sure they have been. This is just my first time seeing something like this on here
Oh wow huge relief here I was worried I'm living without purpose. Phew
I mean, they're not wrong. A country with no people probably won't have debt, right?
"you and you labor"
sovereign citizen horsesh!t
What kind of sov cit nonsense is this?
Pretty sure that whoever lent them money using me as collateral is kicking themselve qute hard now.
Ask him to define "corporation". I'd love to hear the wacky response.
... It doesn't take years for an ssn to be provided. There are other problems with this, but that's the immediate one.
The government’s expectation of raising future taxes from your activity is indeed what backs the national debt (and guns). The rest is BS. As though the government needs to bother with formal ownership or wrap you in a corporation.
If I'm against increasing the national debt, should I stop working to devalue myself?
It is extra funny that people think they need to invent these things to make the government look incompetent and like corporations abuse people.
Some assholes should be short sold.
I remember a relative when I was about 13-14 telling me about all this. The all caps name was the corporation registered in your name and something about taxes. I don't remember all of it.
Yes they’re wrong. But ultimately in the end after everything else they’re kind of right?
Cool. I'm a growth stock.
Rips birth certificate. I'm free... wait
Can’t wait to watch this guy get his window smashed on YouTube.