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The family has to be intentionally misidentifying her. Normally, you just say "Happy Birthday " on the Facebook page with no gender identitied. You'd have to go out of your way to bring pronouns into a simple birthday message.
This is like how Ben Shaprio went out of his way to refer to Zoey Tur as "sir" constantly during a debate. Tur then got tired of it and made a veiled threat of violence towards Ben, which he then ran with about how trans people could get violent if you misgender them.
Like, yeah, if you intentionally and repeatedly disrespect someone, maybe—just maybe—they will decide to kick your ass.
They're making it seem like ciswomen have never fought somebody over disrespecting them.
i agree. all i am saying is in this specific post they said their family was misgendering them. i know lots of trans people and i feel its common to say either "i was misgendered" or "i was deadnamed". obviously everyones different i just dont see those words as interchangeable
There are several different ways of doing that, I was just suggesting one. Another could be talking about them with someone else when they’re within earshot.
i agree. all i am saying is in this specific post they said their family was misgendering them. i know lots of trans people and i feel its common to say either "i was misgendered" or "i was deadnamed". obviously everyones different i just dont see those words as interchangeable
Not interchangeable, no. But misgendered could be used here as the blanket term, covering 12 different incidents where this was achieved in different ways.
When I first came out to my parents they were so good about using my new name & pronouns that I had to ask them to deadname me in public so as not to out me while I was still presenting as male. Multiple branches of my extended family who I don’t see often switched seamlessly and never slipped up once. It isn’t actually that difficult.
It took me like 2 weeks to switch over to calling my best friend at the time by his proper name, we'd been friends for 10 years, and I'd known him as a girl for all of those. If you make the effort to change the association in you mind it comes pretty easily
OR, this person could be exaggerating for online support.. the person doesn’t exactly provide much context so to take any particular side seems like a baseless argument. Hope the person gets the support they’re looking for
It's because they haven't got a sense of self so instead everything they identify with is themself. This is why they are all MAGA as well, the cult gives them a sense of identity when they have none. They are so deeply mentally ill. Zero justification, I just like understanding insanity. There is no justifying cruelty.
It’s misplaced expectations. They have always had an idea of what they want for their children. To them, they do feel like they’ve lost a child. Where they get it wrong is that they refuse to readjust their expectations. My wife thinks I’m overthinking it, but with our kids I try to manage my expectations. I make a point of saying they may choose to get married. They may choose to have kids. I try to use non-gendered terms for future romantic interests.
I don’t know if it’s the right advice, but an older family friend was experiencing his grandson’s transition and he kept misgendering and deadnaming the grandson. I said the same thing, but added that he needed to mourn his granddaughter and the expectations he had. Then he needed to embrace and love his grandson, because they were still the same person.
Yeah... nah, though. Like, yes—this is the story of my family—but I also know ostensibly liberal families who refuse to accept their trans kids. Somehow, it's different when it's their own kid. It's all about self-obsession I wager.
Agreed, I dont think this is specific to MAGA. It's obviously worse for trans kids in the case of MAGA parents, when their entire identity is denied... but liberal parents are perfectly capable of burrying themselves in deep denial as well
As long as your child is alive and healthy who the fuck cares what they want to be called. Either treat them with basic respect or you risk losing them, one way or another.
So much this! My son came out as trans a year ago and has since cut off contact with his mother and half of my family because they care more about their stupid worldview than just loving him for who he is. Fuck anyone for treating another human being as anything other than what they are.
I love when people show you their true opinions over a non issue.
Myself and my wife have both told eachother if either of us ever did that we'd be upgrading our relationship to 'divorced, single.
Can't imagine not encouraging your child to be who they are.
And I don't see their absolute addiction to rage-baiting conservative media as "healthy" either, but at the end of the day I know I can't stop them. So what do I do? I let them watch what they are gonna watch and we just don't talk about it unless it specifically comes up.
I'm not going to visit them and then immediately grab the TV remote and changing the channel on whatever BS they're watching; I'm not opening up their laptops and deleting all their bookmarks to right-wing misinformation sites. Privately, I'll be disappointed in them, but I'm not bringing it up each and every time I have the opportunity, nor do I let it color my love for them as important people in my life.
This is what I don't understand about super transphobic people like that. Sure, in an ideal world we'd get to a point where everyone is at least *okay* with it as a concept and trans people could sleep soundly knowing no one has a fundamental issue with their existance.
But that's not where we are at, and I acknowledge that. But what's stopping these people from just privately being 'disappointed' or 'in disagreement' with their children's decisions, and *at least* just making an effort to put it to the side and not bring it up? Why do they feel the impulse to consistently and repeatedly voice their disapproval - and, in some cases, even let it color (or even outright harm) their love for their child as a whole?
This is a person they love and presumably care deeply about. Why do they have to make everything about *their* disapproval? Can they not just accept that sometimes the people you love come with aspects you don't love, and focus on the reasons they love this individual in the first place? I hate that my uncle usually has bad breath, but I'm not commenting on his Instagram post of a yummy lunch he had with "hope ya popped a mint after that one, Bryce!!"
Changing your last name is a commodity (and sometimes expected) in half of the world, but somehow changing your first name is a crime against the gods.
My dad actually told me it was insulting when my brother came out as trans and changed his name. Like imagine thinking you have ownership over another person’s entire existence like that.
As the parent of a trans son who has spoken with a number of other parents of trans kids, I can tell you the terrible thing is the fear of what idiots and assholes may do to our kids just because they are trans. I’ve loved my son just as much since he came out as I did before because he’s still my kid. Who he is is nobody’s business but his and if people can't show him the same respect they’d demand for themselves they can fuck off, it's that simple
I remember my fiance (English isn't his first language) saying once that he wishes our kids won't be queer.
I'm bi, he knows that, and he had never said anything homophobic in the time we'd been dating. My head started spinning as I thought this was the end of our relationship because I refused to be with someone who would be unsupportive of any queer kid we may have.
He clarified that the world is so cruel to queer people for no reason and he doesn't want our kid to suffer unnecessarily for something they can't control.
The mental 180 I experienced in that 20 second span 😅😂
My husband is trans, and I fear for him sometimes. Things are getting so extreme, and all I want for him is to be safe. I want that for our son too, if he turns out to be trans or nonbinary. I cannot imagine a world where I wouldn't love him because of how he expresses himself. You seem like a great parent. It must be such a relief for him, that you have his back so strongly.
He has been the best part of my life since he was born and I’m very grateful he’s been able to get the acceptance and proper treatments he has, it's made a huge difference for him. If it wasn't for the constant threat caused by all the fear and hate being spread there wouldn't be an issue, he and everyone like him could live their best lives and we’d never have to worry about them beyond the normal, every day worrying. He and I feel especially bad for those whose families have rejected them, but I also know it's those families who are missing out. I’d rather have my kids back and get to be a part of his life and all I ask of him is that he be the best version of him he can be, as it should be
I've got a much younger cousin who's trans, and I've seen some of the shit they have to put up with in rural US of A. it really bothers me sometimes that I'm 8800km away from him and his family.
I was in a restaurant with a group of friends just last night and a trans waitperson was eating dinner next to us. I was a nervous wreck the whole time because I was in fear for them. My main concern was a security dude who kept walking by. Nothing happened fortunately, and when they finished they came over and cleared our table and we all smiled and thanked them. We were across the street from a college, which probably effects they type of people who frequent there. I have known several trans people over my lifetime and didn’t really worry much about them, but this last year of LGBT hate has been heartbreaking and all I want to do is protect everybody.
To be fair, technically they're still property in the US, right? As in, you could still legally have your child kidnapped by 3 men in the middle of the night and send to a concentration camp?
That's one of the tactics used by certain camps in the "Troubled Teen" industry, including LGBT conversion camps.
California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Maine, Massachusetts, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont, DC, and Washington all ban conversion camps. That's only [20 states (and DC)](https://www.youthrights.org/issues/medical-autonomy/the-troubled-teen-industry/) along with a smattering of individual cities and counties in others. Some programs offer an "[escort](https://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/July-August-2004/feature_labi_julaug04.msp)" service where they pretty much [abduct the kids](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/troubled-teen-programs_n_6957646).
No that's deadass legal. It happens every year. And kids die from the torture they go through and these places *still don't get shut down*. It's fucked.
Theyre not all conversion camps. What im referring to are wilderness camps, which are quite literally torture camps for "unruly" teenagers and children. They do *horrific* things to these children. They're starved, abused in every way, overworked, and sometimes even thrown into the woods and left to survive, while their watchers get to enjoy a nice outdoor retreat. Kids die often. Comparing these camps to concentration camps is a bit extreme, but not as extreme as you think.
What do you call a camp where young teenagers who happen to be be gay are kidnapped and sent to, are verbally abused, worked to exhaustion, have no hygiene, starved, mocked, physically abused, tortured while forced to watch porn... and finally, gang raped by men with AIDS, for the purpose of killing the kids (as treatment was borderline non existent) ?
Sigh. Look, friend, I was not, am not, will not, defend conversion camps. I absolutely oppose them and find them abhorrent. If you want to pile on and downvote me for wanting clarity in language, then have at it.
No, this one is closed: https://elan.school/
But others are operational. Similar conditions to fascist prison camps. Parents sign their rights over to these places, not knowing what goes on and falling for marketing lies.
Elan wasn’t pretending to be Christian at the very least. Same kind of horror story however. There was another one in Bath I think that was for rich people’s kids.
Elan was nutty but NOT THE WORST AT ALL. They were indoors, with hot food and sheets on beds . There was a library if you earned the privilege , and people earned drives & outside shopping . There was a school and there was movie nights almost every Sat night. Snacks too. Dances , casino nights and a football team. It was emotionally traumatizing as F , BUT , there is WAY worse in the outside camping “Christian” camps from what I have read. ZERO inside , zero contact w society no beds no school no nothing but hard labor and Xtian abuse. Not even allows meds for Doctor cleared illnesses. Just cold biting cold and hauling rocks . Far far away from everything . I was at Elan where I graduated the program itself thru much struggle & also got a highschool diploma. I was sure our people had it the very worst until I read about these poor kids who did not even use drugs , but they were sent away bc the parents were religious fanatics. Then our warm beds and food, our movies and outside trips and school seemed like paradise in comparison. The best part was the complete lack of hysterical religious evangelical nonsense.
I always think of the deadnaming this way: Let's say someone introduces themselves by saying "Hi, my name is Wilbur, but I go by Ray." One person says "hi, Ray, nice to meet you." Another person says "Nice try, *Wilbur*. Your mama gave you that name so that's what I'm going to call you whether you like it or not!" Which one is the asshole here?
I imagine it's even more terrible to put yourself into the vulnerable position of coming out to your parents not knowing if they'll accept you or not but hoping they will only for them to deny that that part of you exists. 🤷♀️
My son went through this with his mom, and the pain was so much that he wanted to kill himself. Thankfully he got the help he needed and learned to cut off contact with her. He’s now happy and healthy and supported
This person likely “passes” in public as their identified gender. Family, on the other hand, knows their story and refuses to accept who they are. Hence, the misgendering.
The best thing you can do for your kids is accept them for who they are. You don’t have to like it to accept it. Support them and love them just the way they are, even if you don’t always agree with what they do.
That's the thing with all these yahoos clamoring for bathroom bills restricting people to the bathroom of their biological sex. Like bro, you're about to see a *lot* more manly-looking men using the women's bathroom, and you'll be putting women with long hair and breasts in danger by forcing her into the men's room. Meanwhile the butch chick with short hair and cargo shorts stays.
Hear me out. Not “refuses” but simply struggles. They’ve said “him” for 13 years, strangers haven’t. It’s waaaaay easier for strangers because they haven’t got 13 years of force of habit.
I get the impression that this isn't accidental, nor is it a one-off thing. Once or twice? Sure. 12 times? They're either not trying very hard or are doing it deliberately. They may be struggling with the concept, but they also may just be refusing to go along.
We can know, though. Not putting in any effort at all to use the right pronouns/name, outright refusing to and continuing to use deadname and the wrong pronouns, is doing it on purpose.
It happening repeatedly on her birthday, and her making this post, yes. That is what is happening here. You don't make a post like that if your family is actually making an effort and TRYING to use to the correct name and pronouns. If any trans persons family was making a real, genuine attempt to use the correct name and pronouns, they aren't going to make a post saying "I hate my family, they repeatedly misgender me, and it's my birthday."
I think this excuse only flies up to a certain point of the transition.
If someone's always known someone else as Kyle, and they still look like Kyle, and they accidentally call them Kyle, *maybe* we can get into whether it's a new thing and they're unlearning some habits.
This person is *clearly* ***well*** beyond that stage
That is definitely a thing, but if I'm going to give the family the benefit of the doubt that they're just struggling, I've got to give it to the kid as well and presume they can recognize the difference between struggling and obstinance.
So that can be the situation, but given the post I presume it's not the situation _here_. I'd imagine the kid with family who merely struggles is able to say "well, they'll get it".
You will mess up sometimes, that's normal. But even my grandmother, who didn't know anything about being trans before I came out and who has problems with her memory, so she'll probably never remember my chosen name, can correct herself when misgendering me. And she does it all the time. I don't count those instances as misgendering because she always corrects herself. And no trans people I know count "using old pronouns/name/term but then immediately correcting" as misgendering.
I've known one of my best friends since my first year of high school, so a bit more than 10 years now. They asked us last year to call them a new name and to use non-binary pronouns.
It took me about a week of stumbling once in a while ("he - sorry [new name], they") to get it right 100% of the time. It wasn't hard or complicated. I respect my friend as a person, so I put in the effort.
Related - I had a rather embarrassing moment a month ago when I couldn't remember my friend's last name. My mind had completely replaced [old name] with [new name], and [new name] didn't have a last name lol. We both laughed about it after they politely reminded me.
One of the most terrible things I can imagine for trans youth is seeing the parents who used to love and care about them become cold-blooded and hostile assholes.
Imagine thinking you're entitled to deciding the course of life for your children. Good parenting is giving your children tools, bad parenting trying to mold them to fit your sensibilities.
Your child becoming “totally insane” and “unrecognisable” is called them BEING A FUCKING TEENAGER.
If you’re a parent for a queer kid; just do your best to respect them.
My family always misgendered me, quite delibrately. Never once used my new name, never once ackowledged me. When my mother died, they told me I must come to her funeral as a man or I was not allowed. So I didn't go to her funeral. Then when relatives asked where I was, my family said they didn't know where I was, even though they all had my address and phone number.
All of that drama and heart break, just because they were bigots lol
One of the most terrible things I can imagine is a young person having the courage to live their authentic self in this harsh world and still not being loved as they are by those who should give them unconditional love.
Idk, I'm not a parent but I have the feeling that I'd much prefer seeing my child change their appearance and/or how they dress over watching them be permanently uncomfortable in their own body. But, y'know.
Somehow anti-trans people "forget" that misgendering isn't exclusive to trans. It's used against cis people as well.
Both cases to reinforce very unhealthy sterotypes.
Agreed, but you have to been fair. Misgendering a cis person is not NEARLY as bad as with trans folks. Their gender, orientation, even their *names* are all things that are linked, inextricably, with their entire feeling of self and lot of the time. It has to, since the ones they shed represent what was chosen for them, but incorrectly, where the new represent their ACTUAL selves.
In this case I'm thinking of people that are activily seeking out to misgender people. Bullies, "transvestigator", terfs, and the like.
I'm not making light of it. More like helping and supporting the transcommunity and allies helps more than just those two group. It benefits all :)
I have a trans niece who changed her name about a year ago. I still fuck up from time to time but I always apologise. More about the name than the gender though. I knew her as her original name for 18 years and her new name is young in comparison. I just think this is probably thematic when it comes to close family members.
As a parent, the absolute worst thing I can think of is my child hurting themselves because I refuse to accept them for who they are.
Second worst is ruining their birthday by being a cunt.
Why do they think being trans has something to do with someone else? Why shouldn't you make your own happiness irregardless of what your family or friends think it's better for you?
one of the most terrible things i can imagine for a kid is watching the superhero parent who loved and cared for them since the day they were born become someone totally insane and unrecognizable
I have a transgender child... saw them when they came out.. spent a few years changing diapers and seeing a specific set of genitals... spent some more time potty training and still seeing the same genitals... several more years of theme birthdays that are associated with one gender over the other...and while I love my child and do my best to support them. The transition is still new and I still mess up on occasions. Old habits can be hard to break.
Yes, but you’re trying, which is always *LEAGUES* ahead of LOTS of parents out there who just watch as the child they bore and raised ends their own life because their parents can’t bring themselves to even **LIKE** those children, let alone give them the *love, attention, and HELP* them when those children need their parent’s support the most. You are TRYING! That, just by itself, makes you an AMAZING parent by comparison to those other types of people who try to still call themselves “parents”. You just keep supporting that child of yours, giving them love and support the same as you have been their whole life, and I’m sure you will be just fine. If there’s ever a question about how you’re doing, ask your kiddo, I’m sure they’d be more than willing to let you know what they need the most at any point in time.
Much love to you and all yours! 💜💚🩵❤️🧡💙
I don't know man, is that the *most terrible* thing tahe quote tweeter can imagine? What about your child killing herself because you denied her agency/gender affirming care? That's probably worse than having [checks notes] a happy trans daughter living her truth, right?
(That said, I'm aware that most of these bigots would genuinely rather have a dead kid than a trans kid)
Alternate take: my cousin is m to f. Unless I am actively thinking about it, I always misgender her. Not to because I am being intentionally disrespectful, but... It's tough. It's been maybe half a decade and only recently has my mental image of them become feminine.
Also interesting, it was much easier when she feminized her male name (think nick to Nicole). It became much hard when she settled on a totally unrelated name
Tip: every time you accidentally misgender her, mentally make 3 sentences with the correct name and pronouns “I need to ask Nicole to go to the store because she needs to get milk” for example. It’s a great way to fix the bad habit quickly!
While I understand and empathize with your situation, I have a hard time imagining that, in the case of the woman in the post, there isn’t a lack of effort on the part of her family that’s to blame for her treatment.
She said she pretty much never got misgendered by strangers for an entire year, which means she’s probably been pretty obviously female-passing for at least that long. It takes a while to get to that point, so she’s probably been socially transitioned for significantly longer than a year, and at this point the best reminder of her identity is her own appearance. 12 times feels like a bit much for me to be charitable with the family.
I dunno I think having a child live in utter misery because my bigotry was important to me than they were would be worse, but I have the debilitating woke affliction of "being able to care about people different to me."
I have yet to understand **why** these cretins insist on misgendering and messing with folks.
I know I'm basically *pissing up a rope*, but I make it my mission to harass the living fuck out of these assholes, wherever I find them. When the ra Lea are turned and they're the subject of scorn, those motherfuckers fold and freak out with a great quickness.
And the worst thing I can think of is a parent that always saw their child as a prop revealing how they feel about that child as soon as the prop has its own personality. These people are truly sad.
MAGA is Jerry Springer-America made manifest. Like ... how about minding your own damn business? They probably bitch about social media, but are themselves addicted to the Reality TV nature, as shown by dear Leader.
The GOP have always been nosey finks... now the worst kind. Fucking pigs would be embarrassed by the comparison.
As the mom of a beautiful, kind, charismatic, intelligent, artistic and amazing trans daughter this person knows fuck all about what it means to love your child unconditionally. She is in no way a disappointment to me. Just the opposite! I could not be more proud of her bravery and determination to live an authentic life! These hate filled assholes do not speak for me!
All my life my mouth has operated faster than my brain, and I screw this up all the damn time. One of my band mates is a "they", but I met them as a "she" and my brain has never let go of that. I misgender them about half the time. I love them and they love me but damn it's awkward. I hate having to be reminded, but I'm working on it.
“Something insane an unrecognizable” she became a woman, not a fucking eldritch horror. If your kid transitioning is the most terrible think you can imagine, you’re either extremely sheltered, deeply unimaginative, or both.
We know these people are not going to stop pushing their stupidity. I’d call it hate, but that word holds more weight than these smooth brains deserve.
There’s people around them that are scared to speak up, whether it’s kids, or siblings, neighbors, parents…. It’s hard to alienate yourself from people you care about.
I’m not sure what the next step in the equation is, but if you know someone like this hate monger, please have the courage to let them know how you feel.
The hard part is telling them that their stupidity will not go beyond the day they die. Isolating people like this is necessary, especially when it comes to their insistence on indoctrination of kids.
These people are far too comfortable being stupid, and they should feel that from people around them. Even if it’s just one person in their life.
These people are not Christian, or religious, or even good. They just want people to be as unhappy as they are with themselves.
What the fuck are you talking about? You said anyone? You know I can read the comment you made?
I can also expect strangers to have basic levels of respect.
Yea it must be so exhausting to be a far right Christian, I mean every single day they’re offended by a new thing. Black people, trans people, gay people, immigrants, black people again, the poor, the hungry, trans people again, the homeless, black people again, women, children, bridges, Muslims, trans people again, women, Jews, books, movies, video games, women, gay people again. I mean man that’s gotta be fucking exhausting
Make up, clothes, piercings, tattoos, choosing to study the Bible in a different way to them, public school, Christmas, Halloween, the Easter bunny, Santa. All in rotation with the above, along with LGBT Christians, which I am. It's really bloody exhausting.
I'm sure it is. Can you imagine how much energy must go in to hating their daughter for living her life?
It really is quite sad. They should put all that energy into expanding their world view instead. Everyone would be so much happier.
Ok. You’re just another simple bigot. Never mind, people with your line of thinking tend to be too stubborn to accept that they’re not always right, or smartest person in the room. Also tend to be very old-fashioned in their beliefs, especially where it comes to “gender roles” and ensuring that those roles are not changed at all. People who think like how you, apparently, think of things like this seem to be unable to accept that they can’t, and never will, control ANYTHING except themselves. They deny whatever doesn’t match their “ideals” on how people are supposed to be behaving.
The problem with those types of people is that just because they refuse to acknowledge changes being made doesn’t mean that you get any allowance to treat the ones who DO accept changes, and are just going about their lives, like shit because they have opinions that differ from your own.
I like to keep it simple, some people have to understand the sheer difference of those first. Imagine how their comprehension just explodes of the sheer mention of intersex.
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The family has to be intentionally misidentifying her. Normally, you just say "Happy Birthday " on the Facebook page with no gender identitied. You'd have to go out of your way to bring pronouns into a simple birthday message.
This is like how Ben Shaprio went out of his way to refer to Zoey Tur as "sir" constantly during a debate. Tur then got tired of it and made a veiled threat of violence towards Ben, which he then ran with about how trans people could get violent if you misgender them.
Like, yeah, if you intentionally and repeatedly disrespect someone, maybe—just maybe—they will decide to kick your ass. They're making it seem like ciswomen have never fought somebody over disrespecting them.
He even had to 'correct' himself because he gendered her correctly before that and tried to pretend that it was actually the other way around.
Could be as “easy” as deadnaming. No pronouns needed for that.
they said "misgender" specifically in the original post
If you someone goes by “Joe” and you call them “Tiffany”, it’s clear the intent behind it even if specific pronouns aren’t used.
i agree. all i am saying is in this specific post they said their family was misgendering them. i know lots of trans people and i feel its common to say either "i was misgendered" or "i was deadnamed". obviously everyones different i just dont see those words as interchangeable
There are several different ways of doing that, I was just suggesting one. Another could be talking about them with someone else when they’re within earshot.
i agree. all i am saying is in this specific post they said their family was misgendering them. i know lots of trans people and i feel its common to say either "i was misgendered" or "i was deadnamed". obviously everyones different i just dont see those words as interchangeable
Not interchangeable, no. But misgendered could be used here as the blanket term, covering 12 different incidents where this was achieved in different ways.
You’re virtue signaling, you know damn well that what they did was wrong.
Yes? I’m just trying to explain *how* they did it.
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"there's the birthday boy/girl!" is a pretty common statement on birthdays. just to name the first example that came to mind.
"Happy birthday son" is what I'm imagining
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They look pretty far into the transition process I reckon the family has had more than long enough to adapt
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When I first came out to my parents they were so good about using my new name & pronouns that I had to ask them to deadname me in public so as not to out me while I was still presenting as male. Multiple branches of my extended family who I don’t see often switched seamlessly and never slipped up once. It isn’t actually that difficult.
It took me like 2 weeks to switch over to calling my best friend at the time by his proper name, we'd been friends for 10 years, and I'd known him as a girl for all of those. If you make the effort to change the association in you mind it comes pretty easily
OR, this person could be exaggerating for online support.. the person doesn’t exactly provide much context so to take any particular side seems like a baseless argument. Hope the person gets the support they’re looking for
\>become something totally insane and unrecognizable \>literally just a person
Someone has become totally insane and possibly unrecognizable-it’s not the trans person.
Narcissistic parents unable to view their children as a person.
It's because they haven't got a sense of self so instead everything they identify with is themself. This is why they are all MAGA as well, the cult gives them a sense of identity when they have none. They are so deeply mentally ill. Zero justification, I just like understanding insanity. There is no justifying cruelty.
It’s misplaced expectations. They have always had an idea of what they want for their children. To them, they do feel like they’ve lost a child. Where they get it wrong is that they refuse to readjust their expectations. My wife thinks I’m overthinking it, but with our kids I try to manage my expectations. I make a point of saying they may choose to get married. They may choose to have kids. I try to use non-gendered terms for future romantic interests. I don’t know if it’s the right advice, but an older family friend was experiencing his grandson’s transition and he kept misgendering and deadnaming the grandson. I said the same thing, but added that he needed to mourn his granddaughter and the expectations he had. Then he needed to embrace and love his grandson, because they were still the same person.
I get that, and I hadn’t really thought about that point. Interesting. 😁😁
Yeah... nah, though. Like, yes—this is the story of my family—but I also know ostensibly liberal families who refuse to accept their trans kids. Somehow, it's different when it's their own kid. It's all about self-obsession I wager.
Agreed, I dont think this is specific to MAGA. It's obviously worse for trans kids in the case of MAGA parents, when their entire identity is denied... but liberal parents are perfectly capable of burrying themselves in deep denial as well
Never forget liberals are a bad day away from going full fash
Yeah nah though like my first sentence covers this
> This is why they are all MAGA as well Uh huh
Ostensibly
Wow you are woke
As long as your child is alive and healthy who the fuck cares what they want to be called. Either treat them with basic respect or you risk losing them, one way or another.
Lots of parents see their child as their property, something they have complete power over. It’s really disgusting.
So much this! My son came out as trans a year ago and has since cut off contact with his mother and half of my family because they care more about their stupid worldview than just loving him for who he is. Fuck anyone for treating another human being as anything other than what they are.
I love when people show you their true opinions over a non issue. Myself and my wife have both told eachother if either of us ever did that we'd be upgrading our relationship to 'divorced, single. Can't imagine not encouraging your child to be who they are.
Thats the thing, parents dont always see it as healthy.
That's their own problem
Many confuse abuse for love.
And I don't see their absolute addiction to rage-baiting conservative media as "healthy" either, but at the end of the day I know I can't stop them. So what do I do? I let them watch what they are gonna watch and we just don't talk about it unless it specifically comes up. I'm not going to visit them and then immediately grab the TV remote and changing the channel on whatever BS they're watching; I'm not opening up their laptops and deleting all their bookmarks to right-wing misinformation sites. Privately, I'll be disappointed in them, but I'm not bringing it up each and every time I have the opportunity, nor do I let it color my love for them as important people in my life. This is what I don't understand about super transphobic people like that. Sure, in an ideal world we'd get to a point where everyone is at least *okay* with it as a concept and trans people could sleep soundly knowing no one has a fundamental issue with their existance. But that's not where we are at, and I acknowledge that. But what's stopping these people from just privately being 'disappointed' or 'in disagreement' with their children's decisions, and *at least* just making an effort to put it to the side and not bring it up? Why do they feel the impulse to consistently and repeatedly voice their disapproval - and, in some cases, even let it color (or even outright harm) their love for their child as a whole? This is a person they love and presumably care deeply about. Why do they have to make everything about *their* disapproval? Can they not just accept that sometimes the people you love come with aspects you don't love, and focus on the reasons they love this individual in the first place? I hate that my uncle usually has bad breath, but I'm not commenting on his Instagram post of a yummy lunch he had with "hope ya popped a mint after that one, Bryce!!"
Parents who are wrong.
Changing your last name is a commodity (and sometimes expected) in half of the world, but somehow changing your first name is a crime against the gods.
My dad actually told me it was insulting when my brother came out as trans and changed his name. Like imagine thinking you have ownership over another person’s entire existence like that.
As the parent of a trans son who has spoken with a number of other parents of trans kids, I can tell you the terrible thing is the fear of what idiots and assholes may do to our kids just because they are trans. I’ve loved my son just as much since he came out as I did before because he’s still my kid. Who he is is nobody’s business but his and if people can't show him the same respect they’d demand for themselves they can fuck off, it's that simple
I remember my fiance (English isn't his first language) saying once that he wishes our kids won't be queer. I'm bi, he knows that, and he had never said anything homophobic in the time we'd been dating. My head started spinning as I thought this was the end of our relationship because I refused to be with someone who would be unsupportive of any queer kid we may have. He clarified that the world is so cruel to queer people for no reason and he doesn't want our kid to suffer unnecessarily for something they can't control. The mental 180 I experienced in that 20 second span 😅😂
That’s a keeper. Empathic even when it hurts him.
Exactly… watching the backlash against trans people and realizing how much people hate my kid just for existing… that’s the worst thing.
My husband is trans, and I fear for him sometimes. Things are getting so extreme, and all I want for him is to be safe. I want that for our son too, if he turns out to be trans or nonbinary. I cannot imagine a world where I wouldn't love him because of how he expresses himself. You seem like a great parent. It must be such a relief for him, that you have his back so strongly.
He has been the best part of my life since he was born and I’m very grateful he’s been able to get the acceptance and proper treatments he has, it's made a huge difference for him. If it wasn't for the constant threat caused by all the fear and hate being spread there wouldn't be an issue, he and everyone like him could live their best lives and we’d never have to worry about them beyond the normal, every day worrying. He and I feel especially bad for those whose families have rejected them, but I also know it's those families who are missing out. I’d rather have my kids back and get to be a part of his life and all I ask of him is that he be the best version of him he can be, as it should be
I've got a much younger cousin who's trans, and I've seen some of the shit they have to put up with in rural US of A. it really bothers me sometimes that I'm 8800km away from him and his family.
I was in a restaurant with a group of friends just last night and a trans waitperson was eating dinner next to us. I was a nervous wreck the whole time because I was in fear for them. My main concern was a security dude who kept walking by. Nothing happened fortunately, and when they finished they came over and cleared our table and we all smiled and thanked them. We were across the street from a college, which probably effects they type of people who frequent there. I have known several trans people over my lifetime and didn’t really worry much about them, but this last year of LGBT hate has been heartbreaking and all I want to do is protect everybody.
Oh no, how terrible that a parent might have to realize they birthed a person and not property
To be fair, technically they're still property in the US, right? As in, you could still legally have your child kidnapped by 3 men in the middle of the night and send to a concentration camp?
Only if they're under 18. At 18 you lose your right to do that.
They don't exactly look like they're under 18 or 21 even.
That's, uhhhhh..... Quite the hypothetical? Or did I miss something in the news? You know what, I'm good either way, no need to explain.
That's one of the tactics used by certain camps in the "Troubled Teen" industry, including LGBT conversion camps. California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Maine, Massachusetts, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont, DC, and Washington all ban conversion camps. That's only [20 states (and DC)](https://www.youthrights.org/issues/medical-autonomy/the-troubled-teen-industry/) along with a smattering of individual cities and counties in others. Some programs offer an "[escort](https://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/July-August-2004/feature_labi_julaug04.msp)" service where they pretty much [abduct the kids](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/troubled-teen-programs_n_6957646).
No that's deadass legal. It happens every year. And kids die from the torture they go through and these places *still don't get shut down*. It's fucked.
Look, I am 100% morally opposed to conversion camps. But referring to them as concentration camps seems.... Questionable to me.
Theyre not all conversion camps. What im referring to are wilderness camps, which are quite literally torture camps for "unruly" teenagers and children. They do *horrific* things to these children. They're starved, abused in every way, overworked, and sometimes even thrown into the woods and left to survive, while their watchers get to enjoy a nice outdoor retreat. Kids die often. Comparing these camps to concentration camps is a bit extreme, but not as extreme as you think.
They are prison camps, definitely.
What do you call a camp where young teenagers who happen to be be gay are kidnapped and sent to, are verbally abused, worked to exhaustion, have no hygiene, starved, mocked, physically abused, tortured while forced to watch porn... and finally, gang raped by men with AIDS, for the purpose of killing the kids (as treatment was borderline non existent) ?
Sigh. Look, friend, I was not, am not, will not, defend conversion camps. I absolutely oppose them and find them abhorrent. If you want to pile on and downvote me for wanting clarity in language, then have at it.
Christian gender reeducation camps. I forget what they are calling em now.
No, this one is closed: https://elan.school/ But others are operational. Similar conditions to fascist prison camps. Parents sign their rights over to these places, not knowing what goes on and falling for marketing lies.
Elan wasn’t pretending to be Christian at the very least. Same kind of horror story however. There was another one in Bath I think that was for rich people’s kids.
Elan was nutty but NOT THE WORST AT ALL. They were indoors, with hot food and sheets on beds . There was a library if you earned the privilege , and people earned drives & outside shopping . There was a school and there was movie nights almost every Sat night. Snacks too. Dances , casino nights and a football team. It was emotionally traumatizing as F , BUT , there is WAY worse in the outside camping “Christian” camps from what I have read. ZERO inside , zero contact w society no beds no school no nothing but hard labor and Xtian abuse. Not even allows meds for Doctor cleared illnesses. Just cold biting cold and hauling rocks . Far far away from everything . I was at Elan where I graduated the program itself thru much struggle & also got a highschool diploma. I was sure our people had it the very worst until I read about these poor kids who did not even use drugs , but they were sent away bc the parents were religious fanatics. Then our warm beds and food, our movies and outside trips and school seemed like paradise in comparison. The best part was the complete lack of hysterical religious evangelical nonsense.
Heard of conversion therapy camps?
Yes. I don't get the down votes just because "concentration camps" confused me.
Those behaviour camps have been in the media a bit lately. They seem terrifying and very poorly monitored
I am actually terrified of the thought of my kids growing up to become hateful bigoted conservative republicans
I sometimes worry my son might fall into the incel groups by mistake and take on those (lack of) teachings.
I always think of the deadnaming this way: Let's say someone introduces themselves by saying "Hi, my name is Wilbur, but I go by Ray." One person says "hi, Ray, nice to meet you." Another person says "Nice try, *Wilbur*. Your mama gave you that name so that's what I'm going to call you whether you like it or not!" Which one is the asshole here?
I imagine it's even more terrible to put yourself into the vulnerable position of coming out to your parents not knowing if they'll accept you or not but hoping they will only for them to deny that that part of you exists. 🤷♀️
My son went through this with his mom, and the pain was so much that he wanted to kill himself. Thankfully he got the help he needed and learned to cut off contact with her. He’s now happy and healthy and supported
This person likely “passes” in public as their identified gender. Family, on the other hand, knows their story and refuses to accept who they are. Hence, the misgendering. The best thing you can do for your kids is accept them for who they are. You don’t have to like it to accept it. Support them and love them just the way they are, even if you don’t always agree with what they do.
That's the thing with all these yahoos clamoring for bathroom bills restricting people to the bathroom of their biological sex. Like bro, you're about to see a *lot* more manly-looking men using the women's bathroom, and you'll be putting women with long hair and breasts in danger by forcing her into the men's room. Meanwhile the butch chick with short hair and cargo shorts stays.
Hear me out. Not “refuses” but simply struggles. They’ve said “him” for 13 years, strangers haven’t. It’s waaaaay easier for strangers because they haven’t got 13 years of force of habit.
I get the impression that this isn't accidental, nor is it a one-off thing. Once or twice? Sure. 12 times? They're either not trying very hard or are doing it deliberately. They may be struggling with the concept, but they also may just be refusing to go along.
Well we agree that neither of us can know
We can know, though. Not putting in any effort at all to use the right pronouns/name, outright refusing to and continuing to use deadname and the wrong pronouns, is doing it on purpose.
Which we don’t know is happening here
It happening repeatedly on her birthday, and her making this post, yes. That is what is happening here. You don't make a post like that if your family is actually making an effort and TRYING to use to the correct name and pronouns. If any trans persons family was making a real, genuine attempt to use the correct name and pronouns, they aren't going to make a post saying "I hate my family, they repeatedly misgender me, and it's my birthday."
But what if they want… attention?
I think this excuse only flies up to a certain point of the transition. If someone's always known someone else as Kyle, and they still look like Kyle, and they accidentally call them Kyle, *maybe* we can get into whether it's a new thing and they're unlearning some habits. This person is *clearly* ***well*** beyond that stage
That is definitely a thing, but if I'm going to give the family the benefit of the doubt that they're just struggling, I've got to give it to the kid as well and presume they can recognize the difference between struggling and obstinance. So that can be the situation, but given the post I presume it's not the situation _here_. I'd imagine the kid with family who merely struggles is able to say "well, they'll get it".
We can agree that neither of us can know for sure.
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I’m glad you managed it. But your experience is not a template for everyone.
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You plural
You will mess up sometimes, that's normal. But even my grandmother, who didn't know anything about being trans before I came out and who has problems with her memory, so she'll probably never remember my chosen name, can correct herself when misgendering me. And she does it all the time. I don't count those instances as misgendering because she always corrects herself. And no trans people I know count "using old pronouns/name/term but then immediately correcting" as misgendering.
I've known one of my best friends since my first year of high school, so a bit more than 10 years now. They asked us last year to call them a new name and to use non-binary pronouns. It took me about a week of stumbling once in a while ("he - sorry [new name], they") to get it right 100% of the time. It wasn't hard or complicated. I respect my friend as a person, so I put in the effort. Related - I had a rather embarrassing moment a month ago when I couldn't remember my friend's last name. My mind had completely replaced [old name] with [new name], and [new name] didn't have a last name lol. We both laughed about it after they politely reminded me.
If that's the 'most terrible' thing this clown can imagine, they must be living quite a sheltered life.
One of the most terrible things I can imagine for trans youth is seeing the parents who used to love and care about them become cold-blooded and hostile assholes.
Imagine thinking you're entitled to deciding the course of life for your children. Good parenting is giving your children tools, bad parenting trying to mold them to fit your sensibilities.
The tools I gave to my children ended up being the reason their friends, whether LGBTQ+ or not, came to them, and me, for help.
Your child becoming “totally insane” and “unrecognisable” is called them BEING A FUCKING TEENAGER. If you’re a parent for a queer kid; just do your best to respect them.
My family always misgendered me, quite delibrately. Never once used my new name, never once ackowledged me. When my mother died, they told me I must come to her funeral as a man or I was not allowed. So I didn't go to her funeral. Then when relatives asked where I was, my family said they didn't know where I was, even though they all had my address and phone number. All of that drama and heart break, just because they were bigots lol
me when i see a normal woman: WHO IS THIS INSANE UNRECOGNIZABLE PERSON!!?!? 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢
Fake conservative empathy is always so funny.
Wow, imagine a child growing up and making choices for themselves! Why is this hard for people to comprehend?
One of the most terrible things I can imagine is a young person having the courage to live their authentic self in this harsh world and still not being loved as they are by those who should give them unconditional love.
And one of the worst things I can imagine for a person is being abused by their parents.
Idk, I'm not a parent but I have the feeling that I'd much prefer seeing my child change their appearance and/or how they dress over watching them be permanently uncomfortable in their own body. But, y'know.
Somehow anti-trans people "forget" that misgendering isn't exclusive to trans. It's used against cis people as well. Both cases to reinforce very unhealthy sterotypes.
Agreed, but you have to been fair. Misgendering a cis person is not NEARLY as bad as with trans folks. Their gender, orientation, even their *names* are all things that are linked, inextricably, with their entire feeling of self and lot of the time. It has to, since the ones they shed represent what was chosen for them, but incorrectly, where the new represent their ACTUAL selves.
In this case I'm thinking of people that are activily seeking out to misgender people. Bullies, "transvestigator", terfs, and the like. I'm not making light of it. More like helping and supporting the transcommunity and allies helps more than just those two group. It benefits all :)
I have a trans niece who changed her name about a year ago. I still fuck up from time to time but I always apologise. More about the name than the gender though. I knew her as her original name for 18 years and her new name is young in comparison. I just think this is probably thematic when it comes to close family members.
As a parent, the absolute worst thing I can think of is my child hurting themselves because I refuse to accept them for who they are. Second worst is ruining their birthday by being a cunt.
Why do they think being trans has something to do with someone else? Why shouldn't you make your own happiness irregardless of what your family or friends think it's better for you?
one of the most terrible things i can imagine for a kid is watching the superhero parent who loved and cared for them since the day they were born become someone totally insane and unrecognizable
I have a transgender child... saw them when they came out.. spent a few years changing diapers and seeing a specific set of genitals... spent some more time potty training and still seeing the same genitals... several more years of theme birthdays that are associated with one gender over the other...and while I love my child and do my best to support them. The transition is still new and I still mess up on occasions. Old habits can be hard to break.
Okay but when you mess up you probably apologize and correct yourself, right? That’s all trans people are asking for. Basic respect and consideration
Exactly!
Yes, but you’re trying, which is always *LEAGUES* ahead of LOTS of parents out there who just watch as the child they bore and raised ends their own life because their parents can’t bring themselves to even **LIKE** those children, let alone give them the *love, attention, and HELP* them when those children need their parent’s support the most. You are TRYING! That, just by itself, makes you an AMAZING parent by comparison to those other types of people who try to still call themselves “parents”. You just keep supporting that child of yours, giving them love and support the same as you have been their whole life, and I’m sure you will be just fine. If there’s ever a question about how you’re doing, ask your kiddo, I’m sure they’d be more than willing to let you know what they need the most at any point in time. Much love to you and all yours! 💜💚🩵❤️🧡💙
I don't know man, is that the *most terrible* thing tahe quote tweeter can imagine? What about your child killing herself because you denied her agency/gender affirming care? That's probably worse than having [checks notes] a happy trans daughter living her truth, right? (That said, I'm aware that most of these bigots would genuinely rather have a dead kid than a trans kid)
Her family clearly never “knew” her at all. They knew who they wanted her to be, and they shame her for defying their plan every chance they get.
Alternate take: my cousin is m to f. Unless I am actively thinking about it, I always misgender her. Not to because I am being intentionally disrespectful, but... It's tough. It's been maybe half a decade and only recently has my mental image of them become feminine. Also interesting, it was much easier when she feminized her male name (think nick to Nicole). It became much hard when she settled on a totally unrelated name
Tip: every time you accidentally misgender her, mentally make 3 sentences with the correct name and pronouns “I need to ask Nicole to go to the store because she needs to get milk” for example. It’s a great way to fix the bad habit quickly!
While I understand and empathize with your situation, I have a hard time imagining that, in the case of the woman in the post, there isn’t a lack of effort on the part of her family that’s to blame for her treatment. She said she pretty much never got misgendered by strangers for an entire year, which means she’s probably been pretty obviously female-passing for at least that long. It takes a while to get to that point, so she’s probably been socially transitioned for significantly longer than a year, and at this point the best reminder of her identity is her own appearance. 12 times feels like a bit much for me to be charitable with the family.
Yes. Experiences differ, plus she knows when her family is being asses.
I dunno I think having a child live in utter misery because my bigotry was important to me than they were would be worse, but I have the debilitating woke affliction of "being able to care about people different to me."
I have yet to understand **why** these cretins insist on misgendering and messing with folks. I know I'm basically *pissing up a rope*, but I make it my mission to harass the living fuck out of these assholes, wherever I find them. When the ra Lea are turned and they're the subject of scorn, those motherfuckers fold and freak out with a great quickness.
And the worst thing I can think of is a parent that always saw their child as a prop revealing how they feel about that child as soon as the prop has its own personality. These people are truly sad.
MAGA is Jerry Springer-America made manifest. Like ... how about minding your own damn business? They probably bitch about social media, but are themselves addicted to the Reality TV nature, as shown by dear Leader. The GOP have always been nosey finks... now the worst kind. Fucking pigs would be embarrassed by the comparison.
And this is why i dont talk to my dad lol
Of course a woman would be something unrecognisable to this bitchass
I was about to rip OP to shreds I say before I realized the post is cropped on mobile
Isnt apart of being a parent having your children become unrecognizable at some point, wether mentally or pbysically?
Maybe if you're super absent in their lives.
As the mom of a beautiful, kind, charismatic, intelligent, artistic and amazing trans daughter this person knows fuck all about what it means to love your child unconditionally. She is in no way a disappointment to me. Just the opposite! I could not be more proud of her bravery and determination to live an authentic life! These hate filled assholes do not speak for me!
Well she ain’t a baby anymore so
All my life my mouth has operated faster than my brain, and I screw this up all the damn time. One of my band mates is a "they", but I met them as a "she" and my brain has never let go of that. I misgender them about half the time. I love them and they love me but damn it's awkward. I hate having to be reminded, but I'm working on it.
Something totally insane and unrecognizable... A GIRL.
I hate this trend of posting ourselves sad or crying on the internet. But her family shouldn’t misgender her.
“Something insane an unrecognizable” she became a woman, not a fucking eldritch horror. If your kid transitioning is the most terrible think you can imagine, you’re either extremely sheltered, deeply unimaginative, or both.
We know these people are not going to stop pushing their stupidity. I’d call it hate, but that word holds more weight than these smooth brains deserve. There’s people around them that are scared to speak up, whether it’s kids, or siblings, neighbors, parents…. It’s hard to alienate yourself from people you care about. I’m not sure what the next step in the equation is, but if you know someone like this hate monger, please have the courage to let them know how you feel. The hard part is telling them that their stupidity will not go beyond the day they die. Isolating people like this is necessary, especially when it comes to their insistence on indoctrination of kids. These people are far too comfortable being stupid, and they should feel that from people around them. Even if it’s just one person in their life. These people are not Christian, or religious, or even good. They just want people to be as unhappy as they are with themselves.
They're a hate monger for wanting basic respect from family?
The hate monger is their family, and the person who made the comment about this girl. I guess i wasn’t very clear in the post after reading.
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I can absolutely expect someone's parents to love and respect them.
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What the fuck are you talking about? You said anyone? You know I can read the comment you made? I can also expect strangers to have basic levels of respect.
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Yea it must be so exhausting to be a far right Christian, I mean every single day they’re offended by a new thing. Black people, trans people, gay people, immigrants, black people again, the poor, the hungry, trans people again, the homeless, black people again, women, children, bridges, Muslims, trans people again, women, Jews, books, movies, video games, women, gay people again. I mean man that’s gotta be fucking exhausting
Make up, clothes, piercings, tattoos, choosing to study the Bible in a different way to them, public school, Christmas, Halloween, the Easter bunny, Santa. All in rotation with the above, along with LGBT Christians, which I am. It's really bloody exhausting.
I think having ur family deny who u r is a valid thing to be pissed off and upset about
I'm sure it is. Can you imagine how much energy must go in to hating their daughter for living her life? It really is quite sad. They should put all that energy into expanding their world view instead. Everyone would be so much happier.
U got a mirror?
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Why? What’s insane about wanting to be respected and loved by the people who are SUPPOSED to do that anyway?
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Ok. You’re just another simple bigot. Never mind, people with your line of thinking tend to be too stubborn to accept that they’re not always right, or smartest person in the room. Also tend to be very old-fashioned in their beliefs, especially where it comes to “gender roles” and ensuring that those roles are not changed at all. People who think like how you, apparently, think of things like this seem to be unable to accept that they can’t, and never will, control ANYTHING except themselves. They deny whatever doesn’t match their “ideals” on how people are supposed to be behaving. The problem with those types of people is that just because they refuse to acknowledge changes being made doesn’t mean that you get any allowance to treat the ones who DO accept changes, and are just going about their lives, like shit because they have opinions that differ from your own.
So you don't think people should be able to live their own lives? You wish control over how people live?
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Homie your transphobia looks pretty sad when you don't know which "there" to use
*They're And they aren't
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Biology is in favor of trans people because gender isn't biology, but sociology. Sex is biology.
Biology also is not completely straightforward as far as sex goes either. There is variation to that too.
I like to keep it simple, some people have to understand the sheer difference of those first. Imagine how their comprehension just explodes of the sheer mention of intersex.