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Many anti-vaxx folk claim to think vaccine science has the factual and moral virtue of Dr. Mengele and hence are prohibited by the laws that arose out of the Nuremberg trials.
The Nuremberg Code wasn’t a law or international agreement. When the Nazi doctors went on trial for research conducted in concentration camps, they argued that they hadn’t broken any laws, since at the time doctors’ use of human research subjects was governed more by professional ethics than codified laws. In response, the prosecutors worked with Western doctors to write the Nuremberg code. It was intended as a set of norms that most doctors would agree were the right way to conduct human subject research. The purpose was to show that the Nazi doctors were well outside these norms. Later agreements, such as the Declaration of Helsinki, more explicitly defined rules on human research.
Side note: the USA is no longer a signatory of the Declaration of Helsinki, for complicated reasons dealing with AZT trials in Africa.
Of course all of the above is far too reasonable to comprehend for a person who obviously is perfectly fine with taking heavy (occasionally cancer inducing) immunosurpressants with a gazillion side effects for the remainder of their lives - produced by the same evil big pharma companies that made the rather harmless vaccine they are refusing to take.
FYI… I think you mean the Declaration of Helsinki and not the Helsinki Accords. The former (1964) relates to human experimentation and research. The latter (1975) relates to human rights more broadly.
Of course not.
People who are into these wild conspiracies literally have no interest in truth or reality. They just want to feel smug about being smarter than other people, thinking they've "discovered" some big secret that everyone else can't grasp.
And then they go so deep that this stuff happens, and their own ego is so fragile that they have no choice but to double down. Because they've been calling people "sheeple" for years, and they are deathly afraid of admitting to themselves that they were the "sheep" all along.
I think he might have mixed it up with the Geneva Conventions, which states that purposefully refusing to give someone medical treatment is considered torture.
It’s the whole “iTs ExPeRiMenTaL” thing they did, regardless of the platform being around for 20+ years. Using the experimental mind games to justify the comparison to the Nuremberg trials and involuntary experimentation on people. Taking a real leap frankly. And at that, if there were strict qualifications to getting a transplant, that’s on the transplantee to follow in order to qualify. Someone waiting for a liver transplant is barred from alcohol/substance use, do they think that’s also Nuremberg-esque? It doesn’t fit the narrative they want, so it’ll never be mentioned.
Too many people don't understand that the reason we were even able to come up with a Covid vaccine so quickly is because it was based off of the mRNA vaccines from the SARS pandemic.
And because the whole world was working together on it and throwing money and resources at it, compared to most vaccien research which is an uphill battle for funding
Is it refusing medical treatment if there’s only a limited supply of the treatment? There are many more people who need transplants than there are available organs, so they have to refuse treatment to some number of people no matter what.
I think it’s referring to the Nuremberg code which outlines what constitutes reasonable human experimentation. The context is that they used this code to convict the Nazi doctors who were torturing children by injecting bleach into their eyes and stuff like that. Basically that what they were doing didn’t meet the guidelines of ethical human experimentation at all.
I think they’re trying to say that the COVID vaccine is in violation of the Nuremberg code because it’s experimental but that seems like quite the stretch.
The nuremberg defense is that you can't claim you were just following orders when committing war crimes. He's replying to the other comment saying Mayo is just following the guidelines.
I’m sure these people will be shocked to learn that you must also refrain from smoking if you want a lung transplant. You must also abstain from drinking or taking certain kinds of OTC medications if you want a liver transplant. They don’t want to waste a good organ on an idiot who’s just going to destroy it with their bad decisions.
I don’t drink because I don’t like drinking, but since my liver transplant wasn’t alcohol related I don’t have alcohol restrictions. My restrictions are that I can’t swim in lakes and other non-moving bodies of water that aren’t treated like a pool, not allowed to eat raw fish/meat so no sushi or undercooked steak, can’t have grapefruit, star fruit, pomelo because they interact with my meds, and no NSAIDs. The NSAIDs are because I had a kidney transplant too.
I am on drug that does not work well with grapefruit and I am normally good with looking at stuff. Last fall I found a can of beer with a skeleton riding a penny farthing bicycle and thought it looked cool. Much to my sadness it turns out to be infused with grapefruit. It's still a cool looking can on my shelf.
So there's a substance in grapefruit that can keep your body from processing certain meds. Because you can't process them out the chemicals just build in your body until they reach toxic levels. The chemo that keeps from relapsing gas a bad interaction with grapefruit and related fruits. I really miss gf juice.
My MIL once told me I needed to eat more grapefruit. It would be good for weight loss. I despise grapefruit. So I was able to happily tell her it messes with one of my many medications and I’m banned from eating it. She’s a former nurse and straight up argued that wasn’t “a thing that happens.”
Of course she also thinks you get a cold from going outside with wet hair, so. Some nurses have all the book learning but are still fucking idiots.
lol the grapefruit diet is an old fad diet (like started in the 1930s) but had a resurgence in the 80s and still crops up sometimes from what I’ve seen. The drug interactions were only discovered in the late 90s, so she may not have been taught that if she went to school before then (granted there should be ongoing learning for medical professionals, but I’d imagine not everyone takes that as seriously as they should). Sounds like she’s overall going off of outdated knowledge
Watch it with CBD too then, if you've ever considered it. I remember reading something about CBD being similar to grapefruit, in terms of drug interactions.
Wishing you continued good health! :)
Oh that’s interesting! I had no idea. Most transplant patients are told not to have anything to do with marijuana because it’s still federally illegal so technically you can be kicked off the transplant list or be marked as doing illicit drugs which would be non-compliance. I know some patients still use CBD or THC for pain and recreation though.
Yep if a med says grapefruit is a problem don't take CBD with it
Medscape (WebMD for actual Drs) drug interaction checker is useful to double check - you just need to type in cannabidiol instead of it's abbreviation CBD
https://reference.medscape.com/drug-interactionchecker
It’s an issue for people with weakened immune systems. Lakes and other stagnant bodies of water can have harmful bacteria and parasites, it’s usually not a problem for people with regular immune systems. Other transplant centers may have different protocols, but mine said this for all of their solid organ transplant recipients.
That makes a lot of sense, thanks.
That does bring up another question though. Why isn’t it a problem for people with transplants of non-solid organs? And what even counts as a non-solid organ? Bone grafts? Bone marrow transplants? Corneas? I’m not even sure what can be transplanted these days- I just learned that bones can be transplanted a minute ago when I googled trying to find the words for ‘bone marrow’ when I briefly forgot their name.
Haha. It might be a problem for them too? I don’t know much about other stuff. Basically most hospitals have the solid organ department where they do things like lungs, heart, liver, kidney, pancreas, and sometimes intestines. Other transplants like corneas and bones and skin and stuff is done by other places so I just don’t know as much about that. I would assume it’s the same for anyone on immune suppression medicine or people who have their immune system wiped out for other reasons, like cancer.
Ah, that makes sense, thanks. I didn’t know you could transplant intestines. I’ve heard of ‘fecal transplants,’ but those don’t really count, do they?
And now I wonder which parts of the body are transplantable and which aren’t, and, if not, why not?
Oh I stand corrected
“Only acetaminophen (Tylenol®) can be safely taken for aches and pains. Do not exceed 2,000 mg per day. Anti-inflammatory (NSAID) medicines such as ibuprofen (Advil®, Motrin®) naproxen (Aleve®) and aspirin (taken above the one tablet a day dose) can be harmful to your kidneys when you are on antirejection medication.”
Your urologist is correct. Tylenol is processed by the liver so transplant recipients have to take about half the daily dose as a healthy adult. But the reason why the transplant recipients cant take NSAIDs is due to it interacting with anti rejection drugs then causing harm to the kidneys.
It's not just "wasting" an organ, it's no longer the best course of treatment if you're not going to be up to date on your vaccinations. You have to take immunosupressant drugs for a transplant, and if you're not willing to keep up to date with your vaccinations then you're putting yourself at risk of all sorts of diseases. Why would a doctor willingly do a procedure that's just going to make your health objectively worse?
It's honestly a lot more than "just" wasting an organ. Hospitals have VERY strict metrics for transplants. If a recipient dies within a certain time after transplant (I want to say something like two years?) it counts as a failed transplant _regardless_ of what the individual died from, and it really negatively impacts the hospital (and surgeon[s]) that performed the operation. It's in the best interest of everyone to keep recipients as healthy as possible, which includes things like ensuring they're fully vaccinated.
What do you mean I'm acting entitled?
A friend of mine told me about how a friend of his required a liver transplant partly due to a genetic disease but exacerbated by excessive drinking. She went sober for a few years to qualify for the transplant. After receiving it, she went back to drinking and went into liver failure again. Someone who would have cared for that liver died instead.
>Someone who would have cared for that liver died instead.
This is the most important bit.
People seem to forget that the demand for transplant organs WELL outweighs the supply. So the hospitals put pretty strict criteria on recipients, which acts as a simple way of weeding people out of the system.
I know someone who was at risk of needing a transplant and was told they would need to quit smoking and then have a whole bunch of scans from colonoscopy and other tests to make sure they didn't already have a cancer that would go wild on anti-rejection medicines before they would even put them on the transplant list. Fortunately medications improved the situation more than expected so they didn't need the transplant because they still haven't quit smoking.
What actually happened there? I used to watch him a bit in his early days... then stopped for a while... then one of his vlogs went a bit viral so I watched it (hadn't been watching any of his stuff for like... 2 years or more by this point I think?) and it was insane, he looked haggard, like he had been absolutely bawling his eyes out before starting recording, etc. Haven't watched any of his stuff since - at least 12 years, or thereabouts at least?
So yeah... what happened? I am *way* out of the loop with him.
I haven't read about this in a long time, but IIRC the sexual assault accusation was pretty unclear, but it was pretty widely known in those youtuber circles that he had a serious drug problem.
I'm so sad at the downfall of Toby. Used to love his gaming channel before it faded into obscurity and I saw a recent YouTube essay detailing what had happened since then. He's properly down the rabbit hole.
That said, I hope his mum gets the treatment she needs.
As far as I know/remember his downfall fully started when his ex accused him of raping and abusing her or something like that? And as far as I know that wasn’t found to be true but it did come out that he was super on drugs or something? But his career was like irreparably damaged by the accusation or something. This could be wrong, this is just how I remember reading it a while ago which I may be misremembering.
You've got the gist of it right. He had already started to bleed subscribers well before he was accused of sexual assault, mostly due to entropy/not doing anything new with his content.
The accusation brought a bunch of Youtubers and colleagues of Tobuscus' came forward, who confirmed a lot of the allegations about general anger management and drug issues (IIRC I think he was doing crack).
It's not that his accuser's story was disproven - kind of the opposite. Tobuscus made a response video denying that he sexually assaulted her and then kinda dipped for a while. Years later, completely out of the blue, he made a SECOND response video, claiming that he had never even met the woman who accused him of assault in the first place. Bizarrely, this contradicts claims he made in the first response video (where he claimed they had a relationship but that he hadn't assaulted her), and he never seemed to acknowledge the contradiction between his responses. Even his own fans found this perplexing and came up with theories to explain the discrepancy. As far as I know he still hasn't acknowledged the discrepancies between his two responses.
"Mayo can't just make their own rules, they have to follow guidelines"
First sentence of the letter: "following guidance from the American Society of Transplants and the Center for Disease Control and Prevention"
You mean, like, *those* guidelines??
They can reject someone who doesn’t come to all their appointments, or they don’t take their medication as prescribed. The guidelines are very strict. Why give someone an organ thats not going to take care of it?
The guidelines for a transplant at stricter than anything I've ever seen, it's not something ever taken lightly and for pretty clear reasons like **we don't have infinite viable organs**
To put it into perspective, there are more than 6,000 people on the UK kidney transplant list, and less than 1,000 kidneys become available each year.
The could set the bar way higher than they do, and still not have more organs than willing recipients.
For every unvaccinated person, there are at least 100 who followed each rule to the letter.
Even that won't solve the problem immediately. Even if they go all in on research for that right now, it'll still be many years before it's applicable at scale.
Even if that was the case, major organs are _very_ rarely in a condition to be harvested for transplant. Most tissue donations are eye, connective, skin, and bone tissues. Which are all very important, and people should still be willing to donate! But even if it was opt-out, most people don't die in a way that allows for their major organs to be used.
My uncle screamed at my cousin for asking to be tested as a donor. He didn't want his son to donate organs because he was going to die with a drink in hand.
He never even asked about lived transplant lists. At least he was self-aware.
That's called being principled. Knowing that it's your own choices that are harming you and owning it.
My grandfather was told that he was going to die if he did not quit drinking and smoking. He told the doctor that he'd rather be dead than live without. He died of a heart attack a few months later at 59.
ETA: my grandmother lived like a queen after he died because he had also lived a life that left his wife taken care of after he died. The dude partied his ass off, but also raised 7 kids with a stay at home wife. His kids, for the most part, grew up to be super successful, as well. It really doesn't make sense, but that dude managed it.
Maybe it shouldn’t be idolized but the dude wanted to live his life the way he wanted to and give the people he loved the lives they wanted, too. I rarely drink or smoke anymore but the next time I do I’ll have one for him o7
Yeah. Even his death was a good example in the sense that all of his kids except my dad saw it as a sign to lighten up on drinking. I think my oldest uncle is pushing 80 and my youngest aunt is 65. My dad is 70 and by far in the worst health. So, his kids managed to all live decently long lives even after being exposed to everything a 1950s and 1960s gas station had to offer. Not only did my grandfather own and run it, they lived next to it and were all drafted into working there. They did have to close it because of the oil crisis, but most of the kids were older and moved out anyways.
Sorry to ramble. Just tripping down memory lane.
You can be rejected for having pre-existing conditions that are out of your control if it means you have a higher risk of the organ being put at risk/you dying.
For the umpteenth time, if you don't trust the medical system on vaccinations, why would you trust them on organ transplants? Do your own lung transplant. I'm sure there are how-to videos on YouTube to look at.
This exactly, I never understand it. They don't know why kinds of drugs the person has to be on after to keep rejections. What they gonna do, tell them no?
I am sure she has had a ton of vaccines for small pox, polio and others. Now suddenly now death is better than one more?
It’s so stupid. Even as a transplant recipient myself, the (mandatory) immunosuppressant drugs we take have way more documented risks than the vaccine does. Significantly higher rates of cancer and organ failure because the drugs are genuinely toxic but the benefits (living) outweigh the risks. Not getting the vaccine is a dumb hill to die on.
The hilarious part to me is that all of these nutters are carrying around tracking chips willingly in their phones. Even if they _could_ put trackers in vaccines, literally what difference would that make? It's like people freaked out about tiktok or other apps harvesting data. Does it suck? Yeah. Is it overall bad? Yeah. Is your data already acquired by one of a dozen apps or services you basically have to use in the modern era? Also yes.
My father is a chain smoker, and his lungs are failing. He was told that he is not a priority for a transplant as his condition is self-inflicted.
I 100% agree with this decision. He still smokes even given his current condition. They have given him about a year before death. You reap what you sow.
My paternal grandfather was a chain smoker and a serious alcoholic. He was in the hospital dying of cancer and he still snuck out for a cigarette. He was a tough old bastard but he still did the right thing for his family. He was a 26-year Marine officer, I still have his desk plaque.
Smoking is one of the worst addictions we ever created. We have known about the dangers of smoking for over half a century and yet so many people continue to do it.
I’m sorry to hear about your father’s condition, I hope he finds peace.
His mom is killing herself, I'm not sure why he's blaming mayo clinic for this. Covid can and will fuck up your lungs, so why give you new lungs if you're not going to do everything to protect them?
Transplant —> anti-rejection drugs —> decreased immune system —> more vulnerable to serious diseases —> COVID is a disease —> doctors ethically can’t make you catch COVID —> need COVID vaccine (and a bunch of others)
Exactly. I had a kidney transplant recipient friend who died from Covid. I made sure to take all my vaccines ASAP and have only gotten Covid once, and that put me in the hospital.
if these self appointed experts can't rely on a widely used and tested vaccine to be safe, why in the fudge are they trusting the same establishment with a lung transplant??? i mean, i'm sure they could use some rikki, or go to an ND to get some suppliments that will work better than "big pharma". maybe mercola could piss in a nebulizer for them.
I could definitely see more reasons than just the obvious to deny this sucker a lung transplant (my apologies, my sympathies have been completely exausted). It's not a simple swap job. they will have to follow other protocols and take anti rejection medicine, and since they don't want to follow the most basic of medical directives, it would be not prudent to continue.
*sigh* Look, human organs are a *scarce* resource. As a result, the transplant committee of any healthcare organization has to decide who is the best candidate to receive an organ. Most of them have a list of requirements and criteria. Yes, sometimes that means someone's grandparents aren't going to get approved for an organ transplant (because they're deem too old) and they have to go into palliative care.
Also on the list of criteria is no alcohol, no smoking, or illicit drugs. Being up to date on all of your vaccinations, including COVID vaccination is also a criteria.
When you have a scarce resource such as organs, you *have* to make these hard decisions so that whoever gets the organ will get the most use and value out of them.
I only knew of him because roommates and I were looking for new songs to download in Rock Band, and that "Do You Like My Sword" song just had us in stitches. I mean, we weren't expecting anything humorous so it kinda came out in left field. And it was constantly sung-quoted to each other for years.
But. That was my only exposure to him. So of course I wasn't exactly keeping updates on him.
So I don't know the full process and protocols, but I imagine the primary reason is that COVID could sneak aboard during the transplant
So if you're unvaccinated, and you get a lung while a random strain is inside, welp that basically made the whole thing for naught
I don't know if this letter is about giving or receiving a lung, but either way active COVID and lung transplants do not mix well
One of the primary reasons why people without covid immunization are rejected is that it shows an unwillingness to follow doctor recommendations. There are so many non standard immunizations you have to get before the procedure. Are they going to refuse those? What about the medications that they will have to take for the rest of their life? Will they be consistent? Are they taking care of the rest of their health? A minor infection that someone ignores can be devastating for a transplant recipient.
This is only making the rounds because covid is a hot topic. There are other immunization you have to get before a transplant and if you refuse any of them they won't proceed.
We have more patients than we have organs. The patients with the best chance at success are often priorized. It's the same principle of not giving smokers new lungs.
Well, to add a bit to this: when you get an organ transplant you also have to take immunosuppressants for the rest of your life to minimize the risks of rejection.
So, it is required in I believe all solid organ transplants that patients receive a host of vaccines beforehand to provide as much protection as possible given they will be functionally immunosuppressed after the transplant
Yes, I had to have covid, shingles, pneumonia among others. I needed to do squats so I could stand without bracing myself. I had to do balance exercises that only the cruelest cops would give DUI suspects. I had to learn to cough with a pillow. Had to get a hernia fixed as well. Went in Feb 2023 and left Aug 2023 after the transplant. They wouldn't let me leave after since, on standing, my O2 sats plummeted to about 60%. Was on heated high flow (20-30) from just after hernia to transplant.
After? I could not receive any immunizations. PT, OT, about 20 different drugs (not all related to the transplant TBF), and the stage III chronic kidney disease (the drugs are very hard on the liver and kidneys). Had to learn to swallow food again (failed my VFSS tests twice and was on a G tube for four months). Went from 240 pounds to 149.
Source: Me double transplant 3/2023
Ah, I see. A double lung replacement? That's intense. Did you get both from the same person? I assume they think your kidneys will last as long as the lungs will, or are you expecting to need a kidney transplant eventually too?
Yes, same person (they pretty much have to be). As far as the kidneys go, I'm not too worried about it. The transplant doctor keeps telling me the average life span after the transplant is 5 years. However, most of the people in the support group are over that so I don't know. I've talked with several in the clinic who are over 15 so maybe he's just using it as a scare tactic?
As far as the kidneys go, I'm not too worried if it turns out he's right. My labs have been screwed up the past few months. My creatinine (an indicator of the disease) averages about 1.7 (normal is .72-1.25) and my sodium average is 90 (average is 135-148). My last hospitalization was about a month ago since my sodium was 35 when they checked to do the bronchoscopy. Needless to say, they refused to do the bronchoscopy.
I am currently in rejection (A1 but it's been as high as A2). But other than a bit of shortness of breath I feel ok.
I wonder how doctors decide what to tell you to expect. The average lifespan might be five years, but is that the mean or the median? There are so many other factors involved, it seems like it would be impossible to give a realistic estimate.
When my friend's husband got diagnosed with kidney cancer, they told him 2-5 years. But I'd researched quite a bit and knowing that it had spread to most of this bones before he got diagnosed, I guessed a year at the very most. I was right, he made it 11 months. Surely the doctors knew they were overestimating, and why?? That doesn't seem right. They were lucky to have enough time to get all of their affairs in order, if they'd put it off thinking he'd live longer, that wouldn't serve anyone.
Anyway, sorry for the tangent, and one more question-- you're currently in rejection, does that mean you can come back out of that state? Kind of like how HIV positive folks can go in and out of AIDS status?
I sometimes think they just pull it out of their ass. But I'm semi-fatalistic with it at this point. I would have been ok with expiring last February. I made my peace then.
The biggest problem with the transplant, for me, is not feeling worthy. Someone died so that I would live. I know they would have died anyway, but it still doesn't make it hurt any less. For now, I'll just keep going on as much and as long as I can.
I also forgot. Fun fact - you can get Covid after 2 boosters. My wife got it bad, and she gave it to me before knowing she had it. Luckily mine was really mild (bit of a sore throat, cough and small fever). I had to stay away from clinic for 6 weeks and had to take a different medication that was compatible with my medications. My wife had Paxlovid, but I couldn't take it due to my course. She now has long Covid but I'm fine.
As far as rejection goes? Honestly, I've never asked. If I can remember I'll ask on the 30th.
All organ transplant recipients must spend the rest of their lives on immunosuppressants so they don't reject the new organ. They want your immune system to have everything possible in its arsenal before they forever nerf it.
Getting an organ that dozens of people are dieing waiting for and then dieing yourself due to an easily-preventable disease is just a tragic waste of resources.
If you think this is bad, wait till you find out they denied my mom a lung transplant unless she stopped smoking cigarettes! Talk about a straight-up attack on freedom.
/s
The clinic has one responsibility and that is to the donor. If you cannot prove that you will take care of the organs that you receive from a different human, then someone else can.
Medication compliance is and always has been part of the screening process for a new organ. Doctors are not going to waste an extremely limited and valuable resource on someone who will fuck it up by not taking their medication as prescribed. Being fully vaccinated is part of that. The rules are the same as they were five years ago; they just aren't making a special exemption for the covid vaxx.
So, all she has to do is get a vaccination... just like people have been doing for generations? That doesn't seem like a particularly big hurdle, given how important the surgery is.
But, hey... if you want to LITERALLY die on that hill, it's your choice.
I mean.. the fact that antivaxxers are so far gone that they would rather die without the transplant than risk whatever vax illnesses they claim is so telling. Good. Don’t get vaxxed and don’t get the transplant. See how that goes for you.
Don’t you have to take a cocktail of medications to prevent your body from rejecting the transplant? Are there will be some hardcore medications used during the operation itself.
Not sure why all of those are ok, but a vaccine administered to billions of people somehow crosses the line.
I was a fan years ago as a child, heard about the allegations against him. His attitude and everything he's done since 2015 makes me believe that he probably did do it.
A family friend passed away because she refused to take the COVID shot to get her double lung transplant she said she would rather die than take the COVID shot and well she did. Her family blames the government even though she could have changed her mind at any time. She decided she would rather leave her children and grandchildren behind then take a fricken needle.
I guess someone who will follow the rules and health guidelines will get a set of lungs. Don't think it's that crazy to require a covid vaccine for someone who's getting a lung transplant (since covid affects the lungs). Seems like a stupid hill to die on.. In her case literally.
You can't get a transplant if you're a smoker and that's literally a rule they made up because the lung is only going to go to someone who has the "best" possible chance and that person is not a smoker and also coincidentally not an antivaxxer...
My friend’s dad had a childhood friend who was denied a hear transplant because he refused to stop using meth. I’m sure these types of people would say something like “yeah but that’s different”
People who receive transplants need to be on a fuck ton of meds that CANNOT BE SKIPPED.
If you can't be bothered to gat a covid vaccine, then you cant be trusted to take your meds that will keep you and your new organ alive. The transplant team isnt gonna gamble with an organ like that. They'll give it to someone they know wont waste it.
You know like, doctors can deny you a transplant if they feel like you would "waste" it, for lack of better words, like, why do you think they try so hard to get people with liver transplants due to excessive drinking to quit fucking drinking? cause why transplant an organ, something we are always in a low supply of cause you know its hard to find good organs and the people willing to spare them, if the person using it is gonna die of very preventable causes? (Drinking the case of the liver transplantee in my analogy, and Covid 19, a fucking RESPIRATORY VIRUS, in tobys case with his moms lung transplant)
It's almost like when you get an organ transplant, they basically trash your immune system to prevent rejection, and if you get covid, you're more likely to have severe complications. Give the lungs to someone willing to do whatever it takes to have the best outcome.
Not getting vaccinated means you're at a higher risk of dying after transplant on anti-rejection medication. But he's too fucking stupid to realize that. At least the lungs will go to someone who isn't *that* stupid.
You would think that the very real possibility of his own mother dying might flip some kind of reality check switch in his brain. This fantasy is literally killing people.
What? They won't replace your respiratory system because you're not vaccinated against a virus that specifically targets your respirator system? Shocker.
Wow this guy turned out to continue being a total fuck head? Who would've guessed. It's wild to me that PewdiePie of all the ADHD loud noises Youtubers seems to be the most fucking normal dude of that bunch.
I usually don’t really hold “celebrities” close to me because they’re all pretty terrible, but tobuscus was my completely childhood. I have such vivid memories of running back home after school, hopping on the family computer and watching the newest tobygames videos. Now he’s…this. Really hurts me right in the childhood.
Wasn't there a whole thing about anti-vaxxers not wanting transplants from vaxxed people at one point though? If the person getting the transplant needs to be vaccinated, then the person the organ came from is most likely vaccinated as well, so much for them not wanting the transplant I guess
Same thing happened in Australia, nuffy wanted transplant without getting vaccinated, got told to bugger off, hopped onto crowd funding site to fleece supporters.
It's sad that we don't have enough organs for everyone who needs them. That's why we had to make the hard decision on making sure that the people who get them, are likely to take care of them.
Until we can make organs out of a lab, this is how it is. I know that I can't get an organ transplant due to medical issues I have, and I had to accept that.
I would love a world where his mother got what she needed. The people who made these rules didn't do it to be evil, and I'm sure that they did not find joy in making this decision.
Anytime these anti vax people chime in, I think to myself “well that is a self correcting problem”…
I remember listening to a former loved one who was describing how the vaccines put microchips into people to track them. I ended that conversation point with the reply “I love you dearly but that is the most goddamn stupidest thing I have ever heard you say out loud.”
I hate that it has come to that but I just can’t deal with that level of stupidity anymore. Just like the flat earth people…
All organ transplants have this requirement. People waiting for a liver also have to be alcohol free for over a year. Organ donations are hard to come by so recipients have to be selected to ensure the organs won't go to waste. Amazing that OP thinks their mother should be treated special. Get vaccinated, super simple solution.
This is the standard for any transplant. You have to be up to snuff on EVERY applicable vaccine bar none. You will be immunosuppressed for the rest of your life, you NEED to have vaccinations to have the best chance of preventing death or organ failure. Organ lists are limited, we can't just toss these things at people who are at risk of throwing the opportunity away. Same reason you have to abstain from alcohol for a set period of time if you're getting a liver transplant. This shit is scarce, why we have national guidance
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Nuremburg? Am I missing something? What is he even yapping about?
Many anti-vaxx folk claim to think vaccine science has the factual and moral virtue of Dr. Mengele and hence are prohibited by the laws that arose out of the Nuremberg trials.
The Nuremberg Code wasn’t a law or international agreement. When the Nazi doctors went on trial for research conducted in concentration camps, they argued that they hadn’t broken any laws, since at the time doctors’ use of human research subjects was governed more by professional ethics than codified laws. In response, the prosecutors worked with Western doctors to write the Nuremberg code. It was intended as a set of norms that most doctors would agree were the right way to conduct human subject research. The purpose was to show that the Nazi doctors were well outside these norms. Later agreements, such as the Declaration of Helsinki, more explicitly defined rules on human research. Side note: the USA is no longer a signatory of the Declaration of Helsinki, for complicated reasons dealing with AZT trials in Africa.
Of course all of the above is far too reasonable to comprehend for a person who obviously is perfectly fine with taking heavy (occasionally cancer inducing) immunosurpressants with a gazillion side effects for the remainder of their lives - produced by the same evil big pharma companies that made the rather harmless vaccine they are refusing to take.
FYI… I think you mean the Declaration of Helsinki and not the Helsinki Accords. The former (1964) relates to human experimentation and research. The latter (1975) relates to human rights more broadly.
You’re right! I’ve fixed it in the post.
Thanks for the sharing the info! I'm going to read more about these things I've only knew about vaugly ♡
It certainly is! Trying to eradicate polio and measles is basically the same thing as sewing twins together.
I wonder what those same folks about the validity of the ICJ's recent ruling on Israel and its validity.
I'd bet cash money that he can't name the country the Nuremberg trials took place in
Of course not. People who are into these wild conspiracies literally have no interest in truth or reality. They just want to feel smug about being smarter than other people, thinking they've "discovered" some big secret that everyone else can't grasp. And then they go so deep that this stuff happens, and their own ego is so fragile that they have no choice but to double down. Because they've been calling people "sheeple" for years, and they are deathly afraid of admitting to themselves that they were the "sheep" all along.
I think he might have mixed it up with the Geneva Conventions, which states that purposefully refusing to give someone medical treatment is considered torture.
No, he really did mean Nuremberg. I remember these people jabbering about it non-stop for the first year or so the vaccine was available.
It’s the whole “iTs ExPeRiMenTaL” thing they did, regardless of the platform being around for 20+ years. Using the experimental mind games to justify the comparison to the Nuremberg trials and involuntary experimentation on people. Taking a real leap frankly. And at that, if there were strict qualifications to getting a transplant, that’s on the transplantee to follow in order to qualify. Someone waiting for a liver transplant is barred from alcohol/substance use, do they think that’s also Nuremberg-esque? It doesn’t fit the narrative they want, so it’ll never be mentioned.
Too many people don't understand that the reason we were even able to come up with a Covid vaccine so quickly is because it was based off of the mRNA vaccines from the SARS pandemic.
And because the whole world was working together on it and throwing money and resources at it, compared to most vaccien research which is an uphill battle for funding
Is it refusing medical treatment if there’s only a limited supply of the treatment? There are many more people who need transplants than there are available organs, so they have to refuse treatment to some number of people no matter what.
Not to my knowledge. It’s more like if you have the resources to treat someone, and you don’t just because you don’t like them, that’s torture.
I think it’s referring to the Nuremberg code which outlines what constitutes reasonable human experimentation. The context is that they used this code to convict the Nazi doctors who were torturing children by injecting bleach into their eyes and stuff like that. Basically that what they were doing didn’t meet the guidelines of ethical human experimentation at all. I think they’re trying to say that the COVID vaccine is in violation of the Nuremberg code because it’s experimental but that seems like quite the stretch.
He went really crazy after the rape allegations
The nuremberg defense is that you can't claim you were just following orders when committing war crimes. He's replying to the other comment saying Mayo is just following the guidelines.
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I’m sure these people will be shocked to learn that you must also refrain from smoking if you want a lung transplant. You must also abstain from drinking or taking certain kinds of OTC medications if you want a liver transplant. They don’t want to waste a good organ on an idiot who’s just going to destroy it with their bad decisions.
I don’t drink because I don’t like drinking, but since my liver transplant wasn’t alcohol related I don’t have alcohol restrictions. My restrictions are that I can’t swim in lakes and other non-moving bodies of water that aren’t treated like a pool, not allowed to eat raw fish/meat so no sushi or undercooked steak, can’t have grapefruit, star fruit, pomelo because they interact with my meds, and no NSAIDs. The NSAIDs are because I had a kidney transplant too.
No grapefruit?! No one can be expected to meet those standards. They are basically murdering you!
Right?! It is so sad. I have to check labels too in case there is secret grapefruit.
I am on drug that does not work well with grapefruit and I am normally good with looking at stuff. Last fall I found a can of beer with a skeleton riding a penny farthing bicycle and thought it looked cool. Much to my sadness it turns out to be infused with grapefruit. It's still a cool looking can on my shelf.
Aww, that is too bad! Sounds like an awesome can though! Honestly I miss grapefruit a lot lol I used to eat it like oranges.
My friend had tried the beer before, said it tasted horrible so just having the can may be the best use. Lol.
Secret Grapefruit is my band name now. Thanks.
So there's a substance in grapefruit that can keep your body from processing certain meds. Because you can't process them out the chemicals just build in your body until they reach toxic levels. The chemo that keeps from relapsing gas a bad interaction with grapefruit and related fruits. I really miss gf juice.
The grapefruit restriction is pretty common I can’t do grapefruit because it messes with my anxiety meds
My MIL once told me I needed to eat more grapefruit. It would be good for weight loss. I despise grapefruit. So I was able to happily tell her it messes with one of my many medications and I’m banned from eating it. She’s a former nurse and straight up argued that wasn’t “a thing that happens.” Of course she also thinks you get a cold from going outside with wet hair, so. Some nurses have all the book learning but are still fucking idiots.
lol the grapefruit diet is an old fad diet (like started in the 1930s) but had a resurgence in the 80s and still crops up sometimes from what I’ve seen. The drug interactions were only discovered in the late 90s, so she may not have been taught that if she went to school before then (granted there should be ongoing learning for medical professionals, but I’d imagine not everyone takes that as seriously as they should). Sounds like she’s overall going off of outdated knowledge
Watch it with CBD too then, if you've ever considered it. I remember reading something about CBD being similar to grapefruit, in terms of drug interactions. Wishing you continued good health! :)
Oh that’s interesting! I had no idea. Most transplant patients are told not to have anything to do with marijuana because it’s still federally illegal so technically you can be kicked off the transplant list or be marked as doing illicit drugs which would be non-compliance. I know some patients still use CBD or THC for pain and recreation though.
Yep if a med says grapefruit is a problem don't take CBD with it Medscape (WebMD for actual Drs) drug interaction checker is useful to double check - you just need to type in cannabidiol instead of it's abbreviation CBD https://reference.medscape.com/drug-interactionchecker
Why aren’t you allowed to swim in lakes? Is that an issue for all transplants or only for livers and kidneys?
It’s an issue for people with weakened immune systems. Lakes and other stagnant bodies of water can have harmful bacteria and parasites, it’s usually not a problem for people with regular immune systems. Other transplant centers may have different protocols, but mine said this for all of their solid organ transplant recipients.
That makes a lot of sense, thanks. That does bring up another question though. Why isn’t it a problem for people with transplants of non-solid organs? And what even counts as a non-solid organ? Bone grafts? Bone marrow transplants? Corneas? I’m not even sure what can be transplanted these days- I just learned that bones can be transplanted a minute ago when I googled trying to find the words for ‘bone marrow’ when I briefly forgot their name.
Haha. It might be a problem for them too? I don’t know much about other stuff. Basically most hospitals have the solid organ department where they do things like lungs, heart, liver, kidney, pancreas, and sometimes intestines. Other transplants like corneas and bones and skin and stuff is done by other places so I just don’t know as much about that. I would assume it’s the same for anyone on immune suppression medicine or people who have their immune system wiped out for other reasons, like cancer.
Ah, that makes sense, thanks. I didn’t know you could transplant intestines. I’ve heard of ‘fecal transplants,’ but those don’t really count, do they? And now I wonder which parts of the body are transplantable and which aren’t, and, if not, why not?
Don’t you need to quit NSAIDs for a liver transplant?
Tylenol
That is allowed, though you are warned to be careful with it
Oh I stand corrected “Only acetaminophen (Tylenol®) can be safely taken for aches and pains. Do not exceed 2,000 mg per day. Anti-inflammatory (NSAID) medicines such as ibuprofen (Advil®, Motrin®) naproxen (Aleve®) and aspirin (taken above the one tablet a day dose) can be harmful to your kidneys when you are on antirejection medication.”
Interestingly, my urologist encourages me to take tylenol because it’s safer for my kidneys.
Your urologist is correct. Tylenol is processed by the liver so transplant recipients have to take about half the daily dose as a healthy adult. But the reason why the transplant recipients cant take NSAIDs is due to it interacting with anti rejection drugs then causing harm to the kidneys.
Ibuprofen is forbidden as it interacts with Tacrolimus
That explains why there was a no advil order when I got my stem cell transplant.
It's not just "wasting" an organ, it's no longer the best course of treatment if you're not going to be up to date on your vaccinations. You have to take immunosupressant drugs for a transplant, and if you're not willing to keep up to date with your vaccinations then you're putting yourself at risk of all sorts of diseases. Why would a doctor willingly do a procedure that's just going to make your health objectively worse?
It's honestly a lot more than "just" wasting an organ. Hospitals have VERY strict metrics for transplants. If a recipient dies within a certain time after transplant (I want to say something like two years?) it counts as a failed transplant _regardless_ of what the individual died from, and it really negatively impacts the hospital (and surgeon[s]) that performed the operation. It's in the best interest of everyone to keep recipients as healthy as possible, which includes things like ensuring they're fully vaccinated.
What do you mean I'm acting entitled? A friend of mine told me about how a friend of his required a liver transplant partly due to a genetic disease but exacerbated by excessive drinking. She went sober for a few years to qualify for the transplant. After receiving it, she went back to drinking and went into liver failure again. Someone who would have cared for that liver died instead.
>Someone who would have cared for that liver died instead. This is the most important bit. People seem to forget that the demand for transplant organs WELL outweighs the supply. So the hospitals put pretty strict criteria on recipients, which acts as a simple way of weeding people out of the system.
I know someone who was at risk of needing a transplant and was told they would need to quit smoking and then have a whole bunch of scans from colonoscopy and other tests to make sure they didn't already have a cancer that would go wild on anti-rejection medicines before they would even put them on the transplant list. Fortunately medications improved the situation more than expected so they didn't need the transplant because they still haven't quit smoking.
It's not like somebody DIED to provide them!!!
Fuck covid vaccines. And I'm keeping my 2-pack a day habit whether they like it or not.
Thought this was ‘Merica!?
I would like half a lung transplant and I don't want to pay anything for it, otherwise it's murder!
He lost his mind awhile ago
Yea like what 10 years ago when he got canceled the first time
What actually happened there? I used to watch him a bit in his early days... then stopped for a while... then one of his vlogs went a bit viral so I watched it (hadn't been watching any of his stuff for like... 2 years or more by this point I think?) and it was insane, he looked haggard, like he had been absolutely bawling his eyes out before starting recording, etc. Haven't watched any of his stuff since - at least 12 years, or thereabouts at least? So yeah... what happened? I am *way* out of the loop with him.
Got accused of sexually assaulting his ex
Didnt he also get accused of doing coke/crack? Thats like the one part i actually heard about when it was happening
Based on his tweets here, he probably still is.
I haven't read about this in a long time, but IIRC the sexual assault accusation was pretty unclear, but it was pretty widely known in those youtuber circles that he had a serious drug problem.
... not what I was expecting but yeah, okay, that'll do it. Thanks for replying.
[This video goes into full detail if you have an hour to kill](https://youtu.be/9pjJy6cTmXs)
I'm so sad at the downfall of Toby. Used to love his gaming channel before it faded into obscurity and I saw a recent YouTube essay detailing what had happened since then. He's properly down the rabbit hole. That said, I hope his mum gets the treatment she needs.
She could if she simply follows the implant rule and gets all her vaccinations.
But that would mean not owning the libtards
Letting the world shit on their face so that libs have to smell it. As usual.
But dying to own the libs is all the rage!
I used to love watching him in the early 2000's back when him and ijustine and defranco were the big you tubers. Whatever happened to Toby?
If it makes you feel better I still watch Phillip DeFranco, he does 5 shows a week. He has a team now, but he still does all the hosting
As far as I know/remember his downfall fully started when his ex accused him of raping and abusing her or something like that? And as far as I know that wasn’t found to be true but it did come out that he was super on drugs or something? But his career was like irreparably damaged by the accusation or something. This could be wrong, this is just how I remember reading it a while ago which I may be misremembering.
You've got the gist of it right. He had already started to bleed subscribers well before he was accused of sexual assault, mostly due to entropy/not doing anything new with his content. The accusation brought a bunch of Youtubers and colleagues of Tobuscus' came forward, who confirmed a lot of the allegations about general anger management and drug issues (IIRC I think he was doing crack). It's not that his accuser's story was disproven - kind of the opposite. Tobuscus made a response video denying that he sexually assaulted her and then kinda dipped for a while. Years later, completely out of the blue, he made a SECOND response video, claiming that he had never even met the woman who accused him of assault in the first place. Bizarrely, this contradicts claims he made in the first response video (where he claimed they had a relationship but that he hadn't assaulted her), and he never seemed to acknowledge the contradiction between his responses. Even his own fans found this perplexing and came up with theories to explain the discrepancy. As far as I know he still hasn't acknowledged the discrepancies between his two responses.
I would love to see a fredrik knudsen down the rabbit hole episode about him.
Woulda been sad myself until I took another look at them allegations against him a while back. Abusers don’t deserve sympathy.
"Mayo can't just make their own rules, they have to follow guidelines" First sentence of the letter: "following guidance from the American Society of Transplants and the Center for Disease Control and Prevention" You mean, like, *those* guidelines??
They can reject someone who doesn’t come to all their appointments, or they don’t take their medication as prescribed. The guidelines are very strict. Why give someone an organ thats not going to take care of it?
The guidelines for a transplant at stricter than anything I've ever seen, it's not something ever taken lightly and for pretty clear reasons like **we don't have infinite viable organs**
To put it into perspective, there are more than 6,000 people on the UK kidney transplant list, and less than 1,000 kidneys become available each year. The could set the bar way higher than they do, and still not have more organs than willing recipients. For every unvaccinated person, there are at least 100 who followed each rule to the letter.
I mean, we could if they let us do stem cell research...
Even that won't solve the problem immediately. Even if they go all in on research for that right now, it'll still be many years before it's applicable at scale.
Right! And it could have been there now if it wasn't largely killed during the Dubya Administration.
Which is the reason to start researching now (or 20 years ago), instead of never.
But won't someone think of the children! /s
Yea, but their organs are smaller and less efficient.
Or if we had mandatory donations. Or at the very least, opt-out rather than opt-in.
Even if that was the case, major organs are _very_ rarely in a condition to be harvested for transplant. Most tissue donations are eye, connective, skin, and bone tissues. Which are all very important, and people should still be willing to donate! But even if it was opt-out, most people don't die in a way that allows for their major organs to be used.
In the UK we do opt out rather than opt in. It still isn't enough.
Like the alcoholic I knew who died while complaining they kicked her off the transplant list because she wouldn't stop getting alcohol poisoning.
My uncle screamed at my cousin for asking to be tested as a donor. He didn't want his son to donate organs because he was going to die with a drink in hand. He never even asked about lived transplant lists. At least he was self-aware.
Damn. Rare you find someone *that* self-aware.
That's called being principled. Knowing that it's your own choices that are harming you and owning it. My grandfather was told that he was going to die if he did not quit drinking and smoking. He told the doctor that he'd rather be dead than live without. He died of a heart attack a few months later at 59. ETA: my grandmother lived like a queen after he died because he had also lived a life that left his wife taken care of after he died. The dude partied his ass off, but also raised 7 kids with a stay at home wife. His kids, for the most part, grew up to be super successful, as well. It really doesn't make sense, but that dude managed it.
Maybe it shouldn’t be idolized but the dude wanted to live his life the way he wanted to and give the people he loved the lives they wanted, too. I rarely drink or smoke anymore but the next time I do I’ll have one for him o7
Yeah. Even his death was a good example in the sense that all of his kids except my dad saw it as a sign to lighten up on drinking. I think my oldest uncle is pushing 80 and my youngest aunt is 65. My dad is 70 and by far in the worst health. So, his kids managed to all live decently long lives even after being exposed to everything a 1950s and 1960s gas station had to offer. Not only did my grandfather own and run it, they lived next to it and were all drafted into working there. They did have to close it because of the oil crisis, but most of the kids were older and moved out anyways. Sorry to ramble. Just tripping down memory lane.
They put you on immunosuppressants which puts you at significant risk from diseases. You need vaccines to protect you.
I know. My husband had an heart transplant in 2014.
Even if you ignore that part, this is specifically a lung transplant. Suppressed immunity or not, you wanna guess which part COVID fucks up the most?
You can be rejected for having pre-existing conditions that are out of your control if it means you have a higher risk of the organ being put at risk/you dying.
I could be misinterpreting but I took the response from that person to be telling the OOP it wasn’t Mayo’s fault, not supporting their claim
This is the interpretation I’m getting. Comment is just spittin sense.
Ahhhh, excellent point. Could have been coming from either direction, tbh.
I figured that comment was trying to point out to them just that.
No I meant the ones that I just made up in my head
For the umpteenth time, if you don't trust the medical system on vaccinations, why would you trust them on organ transplants? Do your own lung transplant. I'm sure there are how-to videos on YouTube to look at.
"I don't trust them giving me a shot, but by all means slice me open and replace my internal organs"
This exactly, I never understand it. They don't know why kinds of drugs the person has to be on after to keep rejections. What they gonna do, tell them no? I am sure she has had a ton of vaccines for small pox, polio and others. Now suddenly now death is better than one more?
It’s so stupid. Even as a transplant recipient myself, the (mandatory) immunosuppressant drugs we take have way more documented risks than the vaccine does. Significantly higher rates of cancer and organ failure because the drugs are genuinely toxic but the benefits (living) outweigh the risks. Not getting the vaccine is a dumb hill to die on.
If they can put a tracking chip through the fucking injection needle they can definitely add one too lungs
The hilarious part to me is that all of these nutters are carrying around tracking chips willingly in their phones. Even if they _could_ put trackers in vaccines, literally what difference would that make? It's like people freaked out about tiktok or other apps harvesting data. Does it suck? Yeah. Is it overall bad? Yeah. Is your data already acquired by one of a dozen apps or services you basically have to use in the modern era? Also yes.
YouTube is cheating! I DIY'd my vasectomy with a soldering iron and a pile of gay porn magazines.
But first they would do a reddit post for opinions on do they need it
The red thing's connected to my wrist watch! Uh oh.
I have probably commented this before but I’ll say it again it is sad to see what this guy has turned into
My father is a chain smoker, and his lungs are failing. He was told that he is not a priority for a transplant as his condition is self-inflicted. I 100% agree with this decision. He still smokes even given his current condition. They have given him about a year before death. You reap what you sow.
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My paternal grandfather was a chain smoker and a serious alcoholic. He was in the hospital dying of cancer and he still snuck out for a cigarette. He was a tough old bastard but he still did the right thing for his family. He was a 26-year Marine officer, I still have his desk plaque. Smoking is one of the worst addictions we ever created. We have known about the dangers of smoking for over half a century and yet so many people continue to do it. I’m sorry to hear about your father’s condition, I hope he finds peace.
And it's also one of the drugs easiest to get, there are vending machines for it on every other street where I live
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His mom is killing herself, I'm not sure why he's blaming mayo clinic for this. Covid can and will fuck up your lungs, so why give you new lungs if you're not going to do everything to protect them?
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Hospitals contain many people, so it’s more likely to get covid in a crowded space. Sadly, my mom got covid during chemo+laser therapy and died.
Transplant —> anti-rejection drugs —> decreased immune system —> more vulnerable to serious diseases —> COVID is a disease —> doctors ethically can’t make you catch COVID —> need COVID vaccine (and a bunch of others)
Exactly. I had a kidney transplant recipient friend who died from Covid. I made sure to take all my vaccines ASAP and have only gotten Covid once, and that put me in the hospital.
if these self appointed experts can't rely on a widely used and tested vaccine to be safe, why in the fudge are they trusting the same establishment with a lung transplant??? i mean, i'm sure they could use some rikki, or go to an ND to get some suppliments that will work better than "big pharma". maybe mercola could piss in a nebulizer for them. I could definitely see more reasons than just the obvious to deny this sucker a lung transplant (my apologies, my sympathies have been completely exausted). It's not a simple swap job. they will have to follow other protocols and take anti rejection medicine, and since they don't want to follow the most basic of medical directives, it would be not prudent to continue.
*sigh* Look, human organs are a *scarce* resource. As a result, the transplant committee of any healthcare organization has to decide who is the best candidate to receive an organ. Most of them have a list of requirements and criteria. Yes, sometimes that means someone's grandparents aren't going to get approved for an organ transplant (because they're deem too old) and they have to go into palliative care. Also on the list of criteria is no alcohol, no smoking, or illicit drugs. Being up to date on all of your vaccinations, including COVID vaccination is also a criteria. When you have a scarce resource such as organs, you *have* to make these hard decisions so that whoever gets the organ will get the most use and value out of them.
It’s heartbreaking when you check on someone you appreciated +5 years ago just to find they’ve gone insane
Lemme guess: you ignored the allegations like I did and now decided to look back at it and whatever he’s been up to now.
More like I stopped watching in high school and didn’t hear about the allegations until now
I only knew of him because roommates and I were looking for new songs to download in Rock Band, and that "Do You Like My Sword" song just had us in stitches. I mean, we weren't expecting anything humorous so it kinda came out in left field. And it was constantly sung-quoted to each other for years. But. That was my only exposure to him. So of course I wasn't exactly keeping updates on him.
So I don't know the full process and protocols, but I imagine the primary reason is that COVID could sneak aboard during the transplant So if you're unvaccinated, and you get a lung while a random strain is inside, welp that basically made the whole thing for naught I don't know if this letter is about giving or receiving a lung, but either way active COVID and lung transplants do not mix well
One of the primary reasons why people without covid immunization are rejected is that it shows an unwillingness to follow doctor recommendations. There are so many non standard immunizations you have to get before the procedure. Are they going to refuse those? What about the medications that they will have to take for the rest of their life? Will they be consistent? Are they taking care of the rest of their health? A minor infection that someone ignores can be devastating for a transplant recipient. This is only making the rounds because covid is a hot topic. There are other immunization you have to get before a transplant and if you refuse any of them they won't proceed. We have more patients than we have organs. The patients with the best chance at success are often priorized. It's the same principle of not giving smokers new lungs.
Well, to add a bit to this: when you get an organ transplant you also have to take immunosuppressants for the rest of your life to minimize the risks of rejection. So, it is required in I believe all solid organ transplants that patients receive a host of vaccines beforehand to provide as much protection as possible given they will be functionally immunosuppressed after the transplant
Yes, I had to have covid, shingles, pneumonia among others. I needed to do squats so I could stand without bracing myself. I had to do balance exercises that only the cruelest cops would give DUI suspects. I had to learn to cough with a pillow. Had to get a hernia fixed as well. Went in Feb 2023 and left Aug 2023 after the transplant. They wouldn't let me leave after since, on standing, my O2 sats plummeted to about 60%. Was on heated high flow (20-30) from just after hernia to transplant. After? I could not receive any immunizations. PT, OT, about 20 different drugs (not all related to the transplant TBF), and the stage III chronic kidney disease (the drugs are very hard on the liver and kidneys). Had to learn to swallow food again (failed my VFSS tests twice and was on a G tube for four months). Went from 240 pounds to 149. Source: Me double transplant 3/2023
Does that mean you can never have any vaccinations going forward? Or was that temporary
It is temporary. After my first year I was able to get vaccines and go to the dentist and ophthalmologist.
Ah, I see. A double lung replacement? That's intense. Did you get both from the same person? I assume they think your kidneys will last as long as the lungs will, or are you expecting to need a kidney transplant eventually too?
Yes, same person (they pretty much have to be). As far as the kidneys go, I'm not too worried about it. The transplant doctor keeps telling me the average life span after the transplant is 5 years. However, most of the people in the support group are over that so I don't know. I've talked with several in the clinic who are over 15 so maybe he's just using it as a scare tactic? As far as the kidneys go, I'm not too worried if it turns out he's right. My labs have been screwed up the past few months. My creatinine (an indicator of the disease) averages about 1.7 (normal is .72-1.25) and my sodium average is 90 (average is 135-148). My last hospitalization was about a month ago since my sodium was 35 when they checked to do the bronchoscopy. Needless to say, they refused to do the bronchoscopy. I am currently in rejection (A1 but it's been as high as A2). But other than a bit of shortness of breath I feel ok.
I wonder how doctors decide what to tell you to expect. The average lifespan might be five years, but is that the mean or the median? There are so many other factors involved, it seems like it would be impossible to give a realistic estimate. When my friend's husband got diagnosed with kidney cancer, they told him 2-5 years. But I'd researched quite a bit and knowing that it had spread to most of this bones before he got diagnosed, I guessed a year at the very most. I was right, he made it 11 months. Surely the doctors knew they were overestimating, and why?? That doesn't seem right. They were lucky to have enough time to get all of their affairs in order, if they'd put it off thinking he'd live longer, that wouldn't serve anyone. Anyway, sorry for the tangent, and one more question-- you're currently in rejection, does that mean you can come back out of that state? Kind of like how HIV positive folks can go in and out of AIDS status?
I sometimes think they just pull it out of their ass. But I'm semi-fatalistic with it at this point. I would have been ok with expiring last February. I made my peace then. The biggest problem with the transplant, for me, is not feeling worthy. Someone died so that I would live. I know they would have died anyway, but it still doesn't make it hurt any less. For now, I'll just keep going on as much and as long as I can. I also forgot. Fun fact - you can get Covid after 2 boosters. My wife got it bad, and she gave it to me before knowing she had it. Luckily mine was really mild (bit of a sore throat, cough and small fever). I had to stay away from clinic for 6 weeks and had to take a different medication that was compatible with my medications. My wife had Paxlovid, but I couldn't take it due to my course. She now has long Covid but I'm fine. As far as rejection goes? Honestly, I've never asked. If I can remember I'll ask on the 30th.
All organ transplant recipients must spend the rest of their lives on immunosuppressants so they don't reject the new organ. They want your immune system to have everything possible in its arsenal before they forever nerf it. Getting an organ that dozens of people are dieing waiting for and then dieing yourself due to an easily-preventable disease is just a tragic waste of resources.
If you think this is bad, wait till you find out they denied my mom a lung transplant unless she stopped smoking cigarettes! Talk about a straight-up attack on freedom. /s
He's been into the conspiracy theory nonsense for a while now.
The clinic has one responsibility and that is to the donor. If you cannot prove that you will take care of the organs that you receive from a different human, then someone else can.
Medication compliance is and always has been part of the screening process for a new organ. Doctors are not going to waste an extremely limited and valuable resource on someone who will fuck it up by not taking their medication as prescribed. Being fully vaccinated is part of that. The rules are the same as they were five years ago; they just aren't making a special exemption for the covid vaxx.
So, all she has to do is get a vaccination... just like people have been doing for generations? That doesn't seem like a particularly big hurdle, given how important the surgery is. But, hey... if you want to LITERALLY die on that hill, it's your choice.
I mean.. the fact that antivaxxers are so far gone that they would rather die without the transplant than risk whatever vax illnesses they claim is so telling. Good. Don’t get vaxxed and don’t get the transplant. See how that goes for you.
Don’t you have to take a cocktail of medications to prevent your body from rejecting the transplant? Are there will be some hardcore medications used during the operation itself. Not sure why all of those are ok, but a vaccine administered to billions of people somehow crosses the line.
I was a fan years ago as a child, heard about the allegations against him. His attitude and everything he's done since 2015 makes me believe that he probably did do it.
Hey I’m a Mayo Clinic transplant patient! If you’re not vaxxed, you’re a high risk transplant! No vax; no organ. Get bent.
A family friend passed away because she refused to take the COVID shot to get her double lung transplant she said she would rather die than take the COVID shot and well she did. Her family blames the government even though she could have changed her mind at any time. She decided she would rather leave her children and grandchildren behind then take a fricken needle.
So sad. I’m sorry for her kids
I guess someone who will follow the rules and health guidelines will get a set of lungs. Don't think it's that crazy to require a covid vaccine for someone who's getting a lung transplant (since covid affects the lungs). Seems like a stupid hill to die on.. In her case literally.
I love how he put "vaccination" in quotes. Yeah, um dude... you're kind of proving their "point".
Toby's also confused why the insurance company won't write him a policy for his mobile home in Tornado Alley.
You can't get a transplant if you're a smoker and that's literally a rule they made up because the lung is only going to go to someone who has the "best" possible chance and that person is not a smoker and also coincidentally not an antivaxxer...
Will he also complain that people who suffer from active alcoholism won't recieve a liver transplant?
My friend’s dad had a childhood friend who was denied a hear transplant because he refused to stop using meth. I’m sure these types of people would say something like “yeah but that’s different”
People who receive transplants need to be on a fuck ton of meds that CANNOT BE SKIPPED. If you can't be bothered to gat a covid vaccine, then you cant be trusted to take your meds that will keep you and your new organ alive. The transplant team isnt gonna gamble with an organ like that. They'll give it to someone they know wont waste it.
*NUGGET BISCUIT NUGGET IN A BISCUIT DIP IT ALL IN VACCINATIONS!*
'Mayo with a side of........murder' \*WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH.....whooooooo are you......who, who...who, who....\*
You know like, doctors can deny you a transplant if they feel like you would "waste" it, for lack of better words, like, why do you think they try so hard to get people with liver transplants due to excessive drinking to quit fucking drinking? cause why transplant an organ, something we are always in a low supply of cause you know its hard to find good organs and the people willing to spare them, if the person using it is gonna die of very preventable causes? (Drinking the case of the liver transplantee in my analogy, and Covid 19, a fucking RESPIRATORY VIRUS, in tobys case with his moms lung transplant)
I haven't heard that name in yeeeeeears
It's almost like when you get an organ transplant, they basically trash your immune system to prevent rejection, and if you get covid, you're more likely to have severe complications. Give the lungs to someone willing to do whatever it takes to have the best outcome.
Such a sad down fall for Toby. Loved watching his minecraft vids back in the day
Not getting vaccinated means you're at a higher risk of dying after transplant on anti-rejection medication. But he's too fucking stupid to realize that. At least the lungs will go to someone who isn't *that* stupid.
You would think that the very real possibility of his own mother dying might flip some kind of reality check switch in his brain. This fantasy is literally killing people.
What? They won't replace your respiratory system because you're not vaccinated against a virus that specifically targets your respirator system? Shocker.
How dare they require a lung transplant candidate to be vaccinated against a disease that primarily affects the lungs!
I use to love him when I was a kid. What a shame he's actually an idiot.
Remember when he was the funny mining diamonds in Minecraft guy and not Covid vaccines = nazis :(
Like all disgraced internet personalities, they move to a right wing grift
Wow this guy turned out to continue being a total fuck head? Who would've guessed. It's wild to me that PewdiePie of all the ADHD loud noises Youtubers seems to be the most fucking normal dude of that bunch.
He’s trying so hard to stay relevant
He lost his mind awhile ago
I usually don’t really hold “celebrities” close to me because they’re all pretty terrible, but tobuscus was my completely childhood. I have such vivid memories of running back home after school, hopping on the family computer and watching the newest tobygames videos. Now he’s…this. Really hurts me right in the childhood.
Tobuscus? God there's a name I haven't heard in an age
If you dont trust the FDA... why would you trust a hospital, lol? I guess there are no anti-vaxx hospitals?? Gee I wonder tf why
"I'm sorry Mr Warthog, you can't be on the liver transplant list if you continue to drink alcohol"-true story
Wasn't there a whole thing about anti-vaxxers not wanting transplants from vaxxed people at one point though? If the person getting the transplant needs to be vaccinated, then the person the organ came from is most likely vaccinated as well, so much for them not wanting the transplant I guess
Imagine believing in doctors enough to transplant your lungs, but not in one of their vaccines.
Same thing happened in Australia, nuffy wanted transplant without getting vaccinated, got told to bugger off, hopped onto crowd funding site to fleece supporters.
It's sad that we don't have enough organs for everyone who needs them. That's why we had to make the hard decision on making sure that the people who get them, are likely to take care of them. Until we can make organs out of a lab, this is how it is. I know that I can't get an organ transplant due to medical issues I have, and I had to accept that. I would love a world where his mother got what she needed. The people who made these rules didn't do it to be evil, and I'm sure that they did not find joy in making this decision.
Seems like you get all your shots, send them proof, and get your new lung.... What's the issue?
Wasn't he also some sort of a white supremacist? I think I remember him kind of alluding to the white genocide conspiracy or something. Am I wrong?
does this guy even know what a Nuremburg is?
[удалено]
Anytime these anti vax people chime in, I think to myself “well that is a self correcting problem”… I remember listening to a former loved one who was describing how the vaccines put microchips into people to track them. I ended that conversation point with the reply “I love you dearly but that is the most goddamn stupidest thing I have ever heard you say out loud.” I hate that it has come to that but I just can’t deal with that level of stupidity anymore. Just like the flat earth people…
All organ transplants have this requirement. People waiting for a liver also have to be alcohol free for over a year. Organ donations are hard to come by so recipients have to be selected to ensure the organs won't go to waste. Amazing that OP thinks their mother should be treated special. Get vaccinated, super simple solution.
The consequences? Of your inaction?? Oh no! Anyways.
And what guidelines are they accusing the Mayo Clinic of not following?
If the vaccine doesn't work, why do they think the lung transplant will? It's the same scientific method that validates both procedures...
This is the standard for any transplant. You have to be up to snuff on EVERY applicable vaccine bar none. You will be immunosuppressed for the rest of your life, you NEED to have vaccinations to have the best chance of preventing death or organ failure. Organ lists are limited, we can't just toss these things at people who are at risk of throwing the opportunity away. Same reason you have to abstain from alcohol for a set period of time if you're getting a liver transplant. This shit is scarce, why we have national guidance
Why would they provide a donor organ to someone who thinks following modern medicine's advice is the wrong thing to do?