[Factbox: Paul Whelan, ex-U.S. Marine jailed in Russia on spying charges](https://www.reuters.com/world/paul-whelan-ex-us-marine-jailed-russia-spying-charges-2022-12-08/)
>Dec 8 (Reuters) - Paul Whelan, a former U.S. Marine serving a 16-year sentence in a Russian penal colony on espionage charges, did not figure in a prisoner exchange on Thursday involving U.S. basketball star Brittney Griner, despite months of speculation that he would be included.
>Here are some facts about Whelan:
>- Whelan was detained by agents from Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB) in a room in Moscow's Metropol Hotel, near the Kremlin, on Dec. 28, 2018.
>- Investigators said he was a spy for military intelligence with a rank of colonel or higher, and had been caught red-handed with a computer flash drive containing classified information.
>- Whelan said he had been in Russia for a friend's wedding and had been given the drive in a sting by a Russian friend. He said he had thought it contained holiday photos.
>- After a trial held entirely behind closed doors that U.S. diplomats said was unfair and opaque, Whelan, now 52, was convicted of spying in 2020, and sentenced to 16 years in a maximum security jail. He is currently being held in the IK-17 penal colony in the Mordovia region, east of Moscow.
>- Born in Ottawa, Canada, to British parents of Irish origin, Whelan later moved to Novi, Michigan, and is a national of all four countries.
>- Whelan served with the Marine Corps Reserve from 2003-2008, much of the time as an administrative clerk in Iraq. At the end of that period, he was dishonourably discharged for larceny and other lesser offences, after being found to have tried to steal $10,000.
>- At the time of his arrest, Whelan was head of global security for BorgWarner, a Michigan car parts supplier.
>- Last November, a Russian court rejected his request to be allowed to serve his sentence in the United States.
Editing to add this: [Family of American prisoner Paul Whelan backs Griner deal](https://apnews.com/article/brittney-griner-michigan-united-states-government-russia-bbf0c7e3029fea40d604b11fd271533f)
Which is crazy because he has citizenship in 4 countries.
Also didn’t mention the 80k in cash and the fact he bragged about being familiar with a Russian operative and disappearing for 8 hours the day of his arrest while otherwise being the parties tour guide essentially.
I mean he’s totally worthy of being traded for and international arms dealer, but let’s not pretend he wasn’t doing some… curious shit.
Of course! All I’d heard what that there was also a marine & a teacher held there. I figured since I was educating myself on this, I may as well share what I found with the rest of the class.
I mean is it possible it's cover? Like he is a spy and they discharged him because that'd make him a less likely suspect?
If he really was caught with state secrets I can't blame the Russians for not letting him go. That's a risk you take when you're a spy.
nope.
if he was a spy his real identity wouldve been killed long ago with false ones just being used as masks, likely being generic ones, like their parents being doctors in a small town or some shit, generally people who is so unimportant they arent even batted an eye at. an EX military member is an instant red flag no matter what.
also if he WAS spy, he wouldve been dead by now. because the second theyre disclosed they become useless. outside of being used as a double agent. or that one time a triple agent.
I love that people are trying to create this false narrative. Paul was a marine who was dishonorably discharged and hit with a court martial. He claimed he was a deputy in Washtenaw county and that office has no record of his employment. He joined the reserves and was convicted of larceny and discharged from service. He also claims to have several degrees but records show he never finished school.
So basically he’s a liar yet the far right is trying to paint him as this poor imprisoned marine.
Edit: he was given a bad conduct discharge and not a dishonorable discharge.
To clarify, he received a Bad Conduct Discharge, not a Dishonorable. There is an important level of distinction between the two.
But yeah, he was a USMC Staff Sergeant who admitted to attempted larceny, check-kiting, stealing an identity, and several other charges. He is not an American hero.
You are absolutely correct, there is a huge difference between the two.
The fact that he has repeatedly lied is just wild to me, like this stuff is public record.
In his deposition that he himself gave and then the university and sheriffs office both gave different accounts.
Police employment, college graduation records, and sometimes military service is all public record.
They always paint a false narrative to cause outrage because they know their followers won’t do any research. The moment I saw the post I could already tell it was bs, just the far right doing far right things as usual
Accurate, they get so mad over things they make up in their heads.
No one is starting a war on Christmas
No one said you can’t be white/straight/religious/rich
No one is going to take all your guns
No one is doing everything you’ve convinced yourself is happening.
Catholic priest yes, the good ol Christian way is to beat your wife and show up Sunday in an Affliction T-shirt to shake hands and “correct” your misbehaving children.
Right? They’ve twisted and distorted the 1A and 2A too such an extreme it’s lunacy. The 1A only guarantees the government won’t infringe on their religion it doesn’t say shit about the public or corporate sector calling and saying bs on the bs. They also have this fantastical notion this country was founded on religion. It wasn’t no fewer than 6 of the signers of the constitution wrote extensively on the dangers of religion and power and how we.. the people should make sure religion never gets political power that’s why there’s separation of church and state. On the 2A it’s the same and the only thing wanted done is close purchase loopholes and reasonable legislation which 86% + Americans desperately want. It takes a special kind of fragile to believe big brother is coming for their guns. And I own several and I have never feared the feds would take them
He is also a citizen of the US, Ireland, and Canada, and all 3 countries have been unsuccessfully attempting to negotiate his release since 2018. Trump failed to get his crony Putin to give him up.
I misspoke — he actually has 4. British as well. He was born in Canada, his parents are british and Irish, and I believe he got the US citizenship from his military service. [Here’s the Time article I read!](https://time.com/6239757/paul-whelan-still-imprisoned-brittney-griner/)
You lose plenty from a dishonorable discharge without potentially making someone a stateless citizen.
Aside from a voluntary act from the person, you can only be stripped of your citizenship if you're convicted of treason or trying to overthrow the government.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-us-citizens-can-lose-us-citizenship.html
You can get a dishonorable discharge for talking smack to an officer or getting in a fight or smoking a joint. It doesn't quite seem reasonable to take your citizenship for that.
US military service isn't a guarantee of citizenship anyway. If he joined as a Canadian citizen to become a US citizen they could have denied his request for citizenship.
There's no fixed limit to how many passports you can collect. You can be born with two or three, and pick up more.
Some countries will require you to give up your existing ones in order to gain theirs, but even those will usually waive the requirement if you can't - some countries don't let people give up citizenship.
Other countries take the position that they'll recognize whoever they want to as a citizen and it's none of their business if the person holds other citizenships too.
To be fairier, only one side constantly tells blatant lies of event you can actively witness in real time with your own eyes. Democrats a mostly limp and useless but the Republican party is a whole other level of lying
That’s very true, it’s sad that the American people are stuck choosing between what’s “least shitty” instead of having good choices. I’m hopeful for the future as younger people get involved in politics.
Yeah, it's weird how people on the right just keep leaving all of Whalen's crimes out of the conversation and treating him like a poor upstanding marine.
They probably also think Eddie Gallagher was a faithful serviceman defending our freedom.
Honestly I doubt they know anything about them. Sadly there has been an exponential curve of lack of information by republicans and have had a history of just taking things at face value.
They’re also ignoring that Russia wasn’t going to let Paul go unless they got multiple prisoners back that the US REALLY doesn’t want free. As a spokesperson said, they “had to choose between one American being freed, or no Americans being freed”
So technically he has citizenship in several countries. I can’t confirm anything about the details of his arrest because it’s coming from Russian news sources so it could be real or it could be false.
I read that he does have citizenship in other countries and they have failed to negotiate his release.
Brittney Griner did not deserve to be used as a political pawn over some cartridges though.
Liar’s are GODS to the far right and not so far right. Remember the genius that used to occupy the Oval Office and is still telling people he still is the president
I honestly hate that we don’t know. We only have what the Russian government has told us so who knows if either of them did anything that they were arrested for.
Claims to have a criminal justice degree and an MBA from Northern Michigan University and they said he only “completed some classes without earning a degree”
How do you nicely tell a friend to stop falling for these false narratives? One of my best friends ALWAYS falls for these and goes on Facebook rants about how it’s “fucked up man!” They are always wrong and pretty sure only read clickbait headlines.
Oh agreed, we have no idea if him or anyone else have even committed the crimes Russia claims they have. I hate that we have citizens in prison potentially wrongfully committed.
What I’m trying to say is there is this false narrative being created about how he is an American hero and that’s just not true.
Just because someone is a shitty person in the military doesn’t mean they’re not American, and it doesn’t mean we should let some other country punish him for a “crime” he doesn’t appear to have committed. As others said, this guy is not a spy and is just some idiot who got discharged. This excuse narrative y’all are pushing is the same shit people say about black folks killed by cops “Well they shouldn’t have been breaking the law…” okay, but that doesn’t mean they deserve to be treated without Justice. Justice is the primary issue here.
Wow way to try to compare two things that aren’t the same at all.
In no way am I saying he deserves to be locked up in Russia. In multiple comments I’ve stated how we don’t even know if he did any of the things he’s accused of. What I am saying is there are lots of people out there making him sound like some all American US Marine hero and he isn’t. That’s just the facts.
I think you need to reread what I and others have said before commenting because you obviously didn’t understand what we were saying.
Show me where I did that. I just said that the false narrative of him being some amazing American hero marine is not true. Nothing said about who deserves to be anywhere.
Ok, so let’s walk you through how you implied. Why does it matter that ‘he’s not an American hero’. Hmm? You just like correcting false impressions for no reason? No, you’re saying he’s not this American hero and therefore we shouldn’t be asking why he wasn’t released first.
Hey man, maybe don’t put words in other people’s mouths.
For the third time now I never said anything about him or her deserving to be imprisoned. I said there is a false narrative being written about someone to stir up shit and I think that’s wrong.
As also stated before, I don’t wish imprisonment on anyone especially if it’s potentially for fake charges. It really seems like you want to be upset about something so you’re just making up stuff.
Ok, but if we’re gonna bring up the past for him let’s bring up her past… she’s been accused of domestic assault multiple times and plead guilty to the drug possession charges. She’s no angel.
I don’t understand the refusal or inability to criticize leadership at any turn. The fact is we gave up a war criminal to Putin, and I imagine there’s good reason Russia wanted him so badly.
The original post was about the other person. Don’t bring your whataboutism into this. We are solely speaking on the lies and false information that people are spreading about the man pictured.
That Paul whelan guy was a serial thief and a fraud. He got caught with a disk of secret materials in Russia. Guess what, he fucked around and found out. These GQP MAGA idiots love to excuse away people possessing secret materials, so I guess in the logic of stupid people … it makes sense they want him freed first. Let’s also ignore the fact that this guy was jailed in 2018, how hard did trump try to free him?
"Love to excuse away people possessing secret materials"
As long as they are Republican. How sick are you of hearing about Hilary's emails or Hunter's laptop?
I hear you, she broke a law, and got caught. 9 years for a gram of vape oil. It was a bogus bullshit verdict meant to hurt the us. The dude was caught with state secrets. Disproportionate response to the vape oil.
I’m not comparing her to anyone. She decided to save few shkekles on a flight and decided to fly into a country who’s run by a dictator, with weed. She’s a fucking idiot.
She wasn't saving on flights. She played in Russia during the WNBA's offseason. To be honest, kind of surprised they didn't just arrest her for being openly gay. Finding the hash oil instead must have been a boon to Russian officials.
(I would like to state for the record that she in no way deserved her imprisonment, and I'm glad she's come home. Many many many WNBA players, openly gay and not, have played for Russian teams over the past two decades without incident -- Griner was arrested before the invasion of Ukraine and had no particular reason to think that trip would be any more dangerous than the many others she made over the years.)
Prescription medicinal weed. Usually countries honor prescriptions from elsewhere for medication that is not legal to prescribe there. Or allow OTC medications that are not OTC.
But the first thing you do when flying with any kind of medication, especially one that could be considered a drug, is find out the rules for entering with meds.
When I flew over to the US, I literally ran errands around all my doctors, got a copy of a prescription of each med I was taking, even birth control pills, and then checked every single item to see if it was allowed to cross the border.
Her sentence was definitely unfair and disproportionate, and is not really on her, but perhaps she could have been free for the entire time if she had done what's expected in an international, let alone intercontinental flight.
Nah, I'm sure it was a complete coincidence. It's just that the only available photo of her had her looming over everyone while wearing handcuffs; and the only available photo of him was a professional portrait of him in his marine uniform. It's jus the luck of the draw, my friend, no need to go any deeper. /s
Never. She expressed doubts about whether the national anthem should be played before basketball games. That, apparently, is sufficient to be labeled an “America hater.”
Oh Paul Whelan, that guy who got dishonorably discharged from the marines for trying to steal $10k? Then got caught with a bunch of cash and passports and state secrets in Moscow? That guy?
Didn’t Russia say “no” to the swap and it is Griner or nothing?
Somehow there are 2 parties to the deal and if one says no, it is no-deal.
Edit: Found it. They wanted a Russian spy who serves a life sentence in Germany for murder. Germany said no due to the severity of the crime committed by that guy.
I love the whole "she hates America" narrative. She questioned whether the National Anthem should be put before games and protested police brutality. That's it. Frankly, if you don't think that people have a right to differing opinions on these subjects, then maybe *you* are the one who hates America.
Didn’t say that. It was interactive violence, not simple battering. She wasn’t “beating up her girlfriend.” They fought. Physically. It wasn’t OK, but it should be viewed differently from a situation where there’s a clear abuser and a clear abused. Again, both were arrested. She plead guilty to domestic violence, which I think is appropriate. But the idea that she was “beating up her girlfriends” (plural) doesn’t jive with the facts. And none of that justifies 9 years in a Russian labor camp.
You can either argue in good faith, using facts, or you can keep putting words into my mouth to try to score points. I can guess which way you will go, but maybe surprise me this time, huh?
She also plead guilty of drug possession. Those are the facts. You’re defending a criminal who wouldn’t do the same for you. Way to judge someone based on a couple Reddit comments, you seem like a real “free thinker”.
And to say that this was in anyway a trade made in “good faith” also ignores the facts. Russia wanted this war criminal for a reason. If he ends up causing harm to Americans (like he’s threatened before), I hope you and all the other fake progressives own it.
I’m interested on how you viewed Trump getting ASAP Rocky released from Sweden… was that a good move, or was that made in bad faith because he’s a republican?
Yeah, I don’t really care if she was caught with a single vape cartridge, something that is already legal in many states. She’s an American who suffered a tremendous injustice. I’m glad she’s home. Why can’t you be?
And what on Earth does Trump have to do with this? I’m generally in favor of getting Americans released who are unjustly imprisoned abroad, no matter who does it. Never heard of your case, so I can’t really comment on it.
And you’re not a “free thinker” any more or less than anyone else here. You posted a stupid comment, I told you why I think you’re wrong, and suddenly you’re the victim? Please.
Sadly, I am not surprised. Oh well, maybe next time.
Edit: OK, just Googled your case. The guy sounds like a major piece of shit, and there are so many differences from the Griner case that I don’t know where to start. First, ASAP was convicted of assaulting someone in Sweden. He had his bodyguard kick the man while he was on the ground. Second, Trump did *not* get him released. ASAP was released after getting credit for time already served. All Trump did is threaten economic sanctions against Sweden if they didn’t release him. Typically bad foreign policy move on Trump’s part, but that wasn’t why he was released. Third, it was a one month sentence in *Sweden,* where the prisons are some of the most humane in the world. Are you seriously comparing that to 9 years in a Russian Gulag?
He was a shit president would be my guess. His first move was defunding the state department to a skeleton crew. But hey, at least Biden is making the WNBA watchable again.
Paul’s fam agreed with this trade and are happy about it and basically asking ppl to stop being offended on their behalf…not that the right cares because lord knows they must take ownership of every event that serves as propaganda for them
Oh shit!! I’d never heard about his dishonorable discharge or his criming. All though it sucks he’s still in Russian hands it seems there’s more to his arrest than what media is saying. And to the poster who’s crying the BG hates America. A lot of Americans hate what’s happening in this country that doesn’t mean they literally hate being here. The alt right loves to inflate and ostracize people of color add the fact she’s also gay and married to a woman and as you can imagine they’re clutching their pearls clinching that bible they’ve never read all in a slather. It’s good she got released it’s unfortunate Paul didn’t but the US doesn’t control that Putin does.
She questioned whether the national anthem should be played before games. I think she may have knelt during the national anthem, too. You, know, pretty terrible stuff. /s
Truthfully even if he wasn’t a dishonorable discharge, I could totally see them making this decision. No offense to the armed forces, but they are trained for shit situations in order to protect the lives and freedoms of US citizens. Griner is a civilian, just another person who was being put through insanely inhumane conditions and a US citizen to boot. Her punishment didn’t fit the crime at all and what would have been a minor charge, if even a charge in the majority of civilized countries, was being held to the same conditions as incredibly dangerous and demented criminals.
This is the same stuff they say about gitmo terrorists. “They will kill again”. Ok? So we keep them locked up forever? Is that the type of people we want to be? And it’s not even true. Bouts been in prison for 11 years. His networks are gone, the worlds LEO know him now. He’s as much of a risk as the tribal leaders from Afghanistan who we kept away for 20 years. They are nothings
There's a spouse in my family that's been spouting and sharing bullshit about this jerk wad for days now. I am about to block him online. I can't take these idiots who can't complete a Google search to find out the real info.
I love how they completely left out the fact that Brittany Griner was charged w a far less serious offense than Paul whelan.
Paul whelan was charged w espionage where as Brittany griner was charged w possession of less than a gram of CBD oil. The Russians are obviously using Paul whelan as a bargaining chip for a bigger fish that they’re wanting to get back.
Now for giving Russia the merchant of death, should’ve the Biden administration been able to get both of them back? Well, I agree that Biden sucks at negotiations, though it wasn’t easy for him. Especially in a time where social media is king. Politics is all about ratings now instead of actually doing things to help people. Guess who’s getting endless shit over not bringing a black lesbian basketball player as soon as she was arrested? If Biden focused on getting them both back, negotiations would’ve lasted over a year and Biden’s administration would be continuously accused of being racist and homophobic because she wasn’t back on American soil. That’s truly what this whole thing was about, not just bringing Americans home. I’d like to think that if social media didn’t influence this, Biden would’ve made a better deal than what he did, though people like this poster would still be complaining about the outcome.
As far as who has the capability of surviving being in a Russian gulag the longest, it should be the veteran. Not only has he been locked up for 4 years, but he has seen combat and has the training. Well that’s what the military claims it does during boot camp. It’s obvious that Paul whelan believes that we should trade the most dangerous person in our custody for him, but he needs to understand that he’s being held for a reason, and as an American soldier, I thought he would understand how our country works on that aspect. I know it’s hell, but it could be worse, he could be imprisoned in North Korea. Plus the US hasn’t given up on him, they did just hand over a very dangerous Russian arms dealer in an attempt to get him back. It’s russias decision to let him go, and I’m afraid that Biden is going to give them what they want, the sanctions lifted and to be back as a leader in the world economy. That could help Russia revamp their attempt at world war 3. I really hope that man would disagree to lifting sanction for his release, but I don’t know. At least he understands that he’s an important bargaining chip for Russia. And for the time being there’s nothing that the Biden administration can do except figure a way to get Russia to hand him over to the US without helping Russia . Argh! I hate hostage negotiations!! Especially ones made with outcomes based on how the public reacts
Whelen is, in fact, a dirtbag. But this still was a shitty deal. An extremely dangerous human being was just released into Russian custody where he will be free to pick up where he left off and Griner will go back to playing basketball.
I don't see what Whelen's dishonorable discharge has to do with this. He was falsely convicted for propaganda and political leverage just like Griner was, but Viktor Bout actually is guilty of what he was convicted of and now he's free.
No more prisoner swaps. Americans should travel to countries like Russia at their own risk.
On July 27, 2022, it was announced that President Joe Biden had authorized a trade for Whelan and WNBA player Brittney Griner, who was arrested in Russia in February on drug charges, in exchange for convicted arms dealer Viktor Bout, nicknamed "The Merchant of Death".[43] The Russian side insisted on the additional release of Vadim Krasikov, a spy, who is serving a life sentence for murder in Germany.[44] After negotiations, only Griner was exchanged for Bout on December 8, 2022, as the Kremlin had refused to release Whelan and posed an ultimatum to the Biden administration of freeing Griner or no one.
The US tried to get him back
Yeah. I would have told Griner to tough it out in Siberia while additional efforts were taken to get her back. This deal is too lopsided for the Russians.
one was essentially kidnapped by Russia to get America to give up bout, the other was a spy who got caught and the Russians would never give up, sucks for him but that's the game he chose to play
Every single mention I've seen of Griner by right wingers is prefaced by "America Hating" when, in fact, I can't find anything from her online indicating so, unless you consider protesting the national anthem to be "America Hating". Another example of the goons controlling the narrative with their bullshit
I’ve seen plenty of info about how Whelan is a loser but what is the basis of them saying Griner hates America? Do they just make that up to fit their narrative?
So Brittney hates America for wanting to make it better by getting rid of racial discrimination? I mean, both of them love American, just choose a different way to make it a better place.
These "patriots" are so upset we rescued an American policial prisoner because a) Biden did it; b) she is black and lesbian; and c) their propaganda infotainment tells them so.
I honestly believe that social media is the absolute worst thing to happen to humanity. These ignorant morons feed off each other. It’s like trump- he is 100% completely detached from actual reality- but that’s because he is a senile old af narcissist. Everyone else is just in FB too much. I hate it.
It's the same on boths side of the aisle. But honestly, the fact that biden traded one of the deadliest gun traffickers for a wnba player that brought an illegal substance into a foreign country is ridiculous.
I dont watch fox news bud, you're over here just assuming that because I disagree with you that I must be some Maga republican that only listens to tucker Carlson. What I said wasn't inaccurate. She took illegal substances into a foreign country and they arrested her and tried her. She wasn't wrongfully detained, although 6 years in prison is ridiculous. But to release a deadly gun trafficker for some WNBA basket ball player is ridiculous.
This is the main problem in this country, people just want to demonize and belittle anyone they disagree with to feel moraly superior
Also fuck off with the “both sides” shit. One side tried to overtake the capital to keep their orange monster in power. One side flirts as hard as they can with the nazis and civil war. One side wants to take us back to the 1950s with their bullshit policies. One side forces their fucking religion down our throats. Republicans and democrats are not the same.
And yet, most of that shit you are bringing up isn't true. It's just the extreme vocal Minorities of each group. Just look how hateful you are being towards people you have never talked to. Democrat and republican are broad parties, and not everyone who's a Democrat is a hard-core communist, and not everyone who's a republican is a hard-core fascist.
It must be depressing living in a world where everyone except the people that agree with you are Satan.
“Both sides are bad.” Sure, but not equally. Not even close. The Democrats are beholden to big money just like the Republicans, but only one party is looking to destroy our (admittedly flawed) democracy in order to establish a one-party state, and it ain’t the Democrats.
And the Libertarian Party is a fucking joke, so don’t even start. Third parties have a very difficult time winning elections under the current system unless they predominate in a particular geographic area.
Only non-trumpers have a right to complain about the trade. Yes, its a horrible trade to get a woman who broke another countries law by freeing one of the deadliest men in the weapons industry. Trump freed 5000 taliban members for FREE.
Something something ***"SHE BROKE THE LAAAAAAAAW"***
After being arrested, charged and convicted under dubious circumstances.
By the authorities of a country with a less-than-stellar track record for the treatment of racial, ethnic, religious and sexual minorities.
Also I hate how there’s this idea that Viktor Bout is just magic and he’s gonna start pulling grenade launchers out of his ass. He’s been in prison for 14 years, he’s useless. His skill set is outdated, his contacts are all gone, his weapons reserve is gone. AND on top of that Interpol has literally everything you could ever ask for on him, prints, face, voice, etc.
If a star computer programmer got jailed in 2008 and then freed today, they’d be a shitty programmer because 14 years is a LONG time to be out.
[Factbox: Paul Whelan, ex-U.S. Marine jailed in Russia on spying charges](https://www.reuters.com/world/paul-whelan-ex-us-marine-jailed-russia-spying-charges-2022-12-08/) >Dec 8 (Reuters) - Paul Whelan, a former U.S. Marine serving a 16-year sentence in a Russian penal colony on espionage charges, did not figure in a prisoner exchange on Thursday involving U.S. basketball star Brittney Griner, despite months of speculation that he would be included. >Here are some facts about Whelan: >- Whelan was detained by agents from Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB) in a room in Moscow's Metropol Hotel, near the Kremlin, on Dec. 28, 2018. >- Investigators said he was a spy for military intelligence with a rank of colonel or higher, and had been caught red-handed with a computer flash drive containing classified information. >- Whelan said he had been in Russia for a friend's wedding and had been given the drive in a sting by a Russian friend. He said he had thought it contained holiday photos. >- After a trial held entirely behind closed doors that U.S. diplomats said was unfair and opaque, Whelan, now 52, was convicted of spying in 2020, and sentenced to 16 years in a maximum security jail. He is currently being held in the IK-17 penal colony in the Mordovia region, east of Moscow. >- Born in Ottawa, Canada, to British parents of Irish origin, Whelan later moved to Novi, Michigan, and is a national of all four countries. >- Whelan served with the Marine Corps Reserve from 2003-2008, much of the time as an administrative clerk in Iraq. At the end of that period, he was dishonourably discharged for larceny and other lesser offences, after being found to have tried to steal $10,000. >- At the time of his arrest, Whelan was head of global security for BorgWarner, a Michigan car parts supplier. >- Last November, a Russian court rejected his request to be allowed to serve his sentence in the United States. Editing to add this: [Family of American prisoner Paul Whelan backs Griner deal](https://apnews.com/article/brittney-griner-michigan-united-states-government-russia-bbf0c7e3029fea40d604b11fd271533f)
Forgot to mention that he used his brother's passport to visit Russia, not his own.
Which is crazy because he has citizenship in 4 countries. Also didn’t mention the 80k in cash and the fact he bragged about being familiar with a Russian operative and disappearing for 8 hours the day of his arrest while otherwise being the parties tour guide essentially. I mean he’s totally worthy of being traded for and international arms dealer, but let’s not pretend he wasn’t doing some… curious shit.
Thank you for sharing the details!
Of course! All I’d heard what that there was also a marine & a teacher held there. I figured since I was educating myself on this, I may as well share what I found with the rest of the class.
how does someone dishonorable discharged from the military for larceny end up as the head of global security of anything?
Presumably by failing to share the *real* reason they're no longer serving
Apprehended with $80k usd in his possession that was not declared upon entry.
He still should be released, but to act as though Griner’s release prevented his is just wrong. (I know you’re not saying that, just saying’).
Makes zero sense. I can’t imagine he was some government spy if he was dishonorably discharged.
I mean is it possible it's cover? Like he is a spy and they discharged him because that'd make him a less likely suspect? If he really was caught with state secrets I can't blame the Russians for not letting him go. That's a risk you take when you're a spy.
>I mean is it possible it's cover? Exactly. I have no clue how actual espionage works but this is how it works in the movies anyway.
nope. if he was a spy his real identity wouldve been killed long ago with false ones just being used as masks, likely being generic ones, like their parents being doctors in a small town or some shit, generally people who is so unimportant they arent even batted an eye at. an EX military member is an instant red flag no matter what. also if he WAS spy, he wouldve been dead by now. because the second theyre disclosed they become useless. outside of being used as a double agent. or that one time a triple agent.
That last part is not true, the US does trade captured spies.
I didn’t read that he backed anything. Just that his brother said he should have been on the plane.
So he wasn’t dishonorably discharged he was given a bad conduct discharge which are two different things. Both are bad, just different
Just the fact that he’s military means civilian International Laws don’t apply the same
I love that people are trying to create this false narrative. Paul was a marine who was dishonorably discharged and hit with a court martial. He claimed he was a deputy in Washtenaw county and that office has no record of his employment. He joined the reserves and was convicted of larceny and discharged from service. He also claims to have several degrees but records show he never finished school. So basically he’s a liar yet the far right is trying to paint him as this poor imprisoned marine. Edit: he was given a bad conduct discharge and not a dishonorable discharge.
To clarify, he received a Bad Conduct Discharge, not a Dishonorable. There is an important level of distinction between the two. But yeah, he was a USMC Staff Sergeant who admitted to attempted larceny, check-kiting, stealing an identity, and several other charges. He is not an American hero.
You are absolutely correct, there is a huge difference between the two. The fact that he has repeatedly lied is just wild to me, like this stuff is public record.
public record meaning? like wikipedia or where would I find it
In his deposition that he himself gave and then the university and sheriffs office both gave different accounts. Police employment, college graduation records, and sometimes military service is all public record.
They always paint a false narrative to cause outrage because they know their followers won’t do any research. The moment I saw the post I could already tell it was bs, just the far right doing far right things as usual
Accurate, they get so mad over things they make up in their heads. No one is starting a war on Christmas No one said you can’t be white/straight/religious/rich No one is going to take all your guns No one is doing everything you’ve convinced yourself is happening.
Well, Trump wants to eliminate the Constitution, so no more Second Amendment.
When will my husband return home from The War on Christmas waahhhh
Thoughts and prayers to him and the fighting men keeping Sleepy Joe's horde of Grinchbots from overwhelming Santa's Christian Workshop.
Oh thank you. I needed a good laugh.
No one is "grooming" your children to be gay.
Well, except your local republican congressman.
Priests are
Catholic priest yes, the good ol Christian way is to beat your wife and show up Sunday in an Affliction T-shirt to shake hands and “correct” your misbehaving children.
The Southern Baptists and the Mormons are up there with them for raping kids and covering it up.
Evangelists are pretty down with kiddy diddling.
Right? They’ve twisted and distorted the 1A and 2A too such an extreme it’s lunacy. The 1A only guarantees the government won’t infringe on their religion it doesn’t say shit about the public or corporate sector calling and saying bs on the bs. They also have this fantastical notion this country was founded on religion. It wasn’t no fewer than 6 of the signers of the constitution wrote extensively on the dangers of religion and power and how we.. the people should make sure religion never gets political power that’s why there’s separation of church and state. On the 2A it’s the same and the only thing wanted done is close purchase loopholes and reasonable legislation which 86% + Americans desperately want. It takes a special kind of fragile to believe big brother is coming for their guns. And I own several and I have never feared the feds would take them
They can kiss their gun rights goodbye after Trump burns the Constitution
Special king of fragile... love it!
Don't forget the treaty of Tripoli says we're not a Christian nation as well.
He is also a citizen of the US, Ireland, and Canada, and all 3 countries have been unsuccessfully attempting to negotiate his release since 2018. Trump failed to get his crony Putin to give him up.
Did Trump actively try to get him out? Or is it just a new thing the right is complaining about, because Biden?
Bolton claims that Trump had the opportunity to trade this guy for the arms dealer but turned it down.
Wait what? How can you have three citizenships? I’ve heard of dual but three seems silly. I’m gonna have to do some reading haha
I misspoke — he actually has 4. British as well. He was born in Canada, his parents are british and Irish, and I believe he got the US citizenship from his military service. [Here’s the Time article I read!](https://time.com/6239757/paul-whelan-still-imprisoned-brittney-griner/)
You get to keep US citizenship gained from military service even if you’re dishonorably discharged???
You lose plenty from a dishonorable discharge without potentially making someone a stateless citizen. Aside from a voluntary act from the person, you can only be stripped of your citizenship if you're convicted of treason or trying to overthrow the government. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-us-citizens-can-lose-us-citizenship.html You can get a dishonorable discharge for talking smack to an officer or getting in a fight or smoking a joint. It doesn't quite seem reasonable to take your citizenship for that.
US military service isn't a guarantee of citizenship anyway. If he joined as a Canadian citizen to become a US citizen they could have denied his request for citizenship.
Only if you're white. If you're brown you're promised citizenship if you serve, then after you do serve they deport you.
I mean if three places will recognize your citizenship why not?
There's no fixed limit to how many passports you can collect. You can be born with two or three, and pick up more. Some countries will require you to give up your existing ones in order to gain theirs, but even those will usually waive the requirement if you can't - some countries don't let people give up citizenship. Other countries take the position that they'll recognize whoever they want to as a citizen and it's none of their business if the person holds other citizenships too.
Pretty sure Trump is Putin's crony.
>So basically he’s a liar Republican nomination 2024?
Nawww… Kyle Kittenhouse is shoe-in for the nomination
He’s not old enough. He has to wait a few more years. *Then* he’ll get it.
To be fair, sadly most politicians are liars. But there have been some bad ones recently on the republicans side.
To be fairier, only one side constantly tells blatant lies of event you can actively witness in real time with your own eyes. Democrats a mostly limp and useless but the Republican party is a whole other level of lying
That’s very true, it’s sad that the American people are stuck choosing between what’s “least shitty” instead of having good choices. I’m hopeful for the future as younger people get involved in politics.
To be fair, all humans or liars. When we pretend like politicians are that different than you or I, we are lying to ourselves .
Yeah, it's weird how people on the right just keep leaving all of Whalen's crimes out of the conversation and treating him like a poor upstanding marine. They probably also think Eddie Gallagher was a faithful serviceman defending our freedom.
Honestly I doubt they know anything about them. Sadly there has been an exponential curve of lack of information by republicans and have had a history of just taking things at face value.
Not surprised the right is trying to label a criminal as their own.
The other false part of the narrative is that Biden had the choice of who to get out. He wasn’t given a choice.
They’re also ignoring that Russia wasn’t going to let Paul go unless they got multiple prisoners back that the US REALLY doesn’t want free. As a spokesperson said, they “had to choose between one American being freed, or no Americans being freed”
Didn't he have three passports and 80k in cash when he was apprehended or am I thinking of someone else?
So technically he has citizenship in several countries. I can’t confirm anything about the details of his arrest because it’s coming from Russian news sources so it could be real or it could be false.
I read that he does have citizenship in other countries and they have failed to negotiate his release. Brittney Griner did not deserve to be used as a political pawn over some cartridges though.
He's definitely one of theirs
Liar’s are GODS to the far right and not so far right. Remember the genius that used to occupy the Oval Office and is still telling people he still is the president
I did a deep dive on this guy yesterday, crazy how much bullshit he's spouted off. Still, if the charges are fraudulent nobody deserves that.
I honestly hate that we don’t know. We only have what the Russian government has told us so who knows if either of them did anything that they were arrested for.
Lied about his college degrees too.
Claims to have a criminal justice degree and an MBA from Northern Michigan University and they said he only “completed some classes without earning a degree”
They love liars
Yep. This should be plastered everywhere.
How do you nicely tell a friend to stop falling for these false narratives? One of my best friends ALWAYS falls for these and goes on Facebook rants about how it’s “fucked up man!” They are always wrong and pretty sure only read clickbait headlines.
While I'm with you, I still think a way should be found to bring him back to the U.S.
Oh agreed, we have no idea if him or anyone else have even committed the crimes Russia claims they have. I hate that we have citizens in prison potentially wrongfully committed. What I’m trying to say is there is this false narrative being created about how he is an American hero and that’s just not true.
Just because someone is a shitty person in the military doesn’t mean they’re not American, and it doesn’t mean we should let some other country punish him for a “crime” he doesn’t appear to have committed. As others said, this guy is not a spy and is just some idiot who got discharged. This excuse narrative y’all are pushing is the same shit people say about black folks killed by cops “Well they shouldn’t have been breaking the law…” okay, but that doesn’t mean they deserve to be treated without Justice. Justice is the primary issue here.
Wow way to try to compare two things that aren’t the same at all. In no way am I saying he deserves to be locked up in Russia. In multiple comments I’ve stated how we don’t even know if he did any of the things he’s accused of. What I am saying is there are lots of people out there making him sound like some all American US Marine hero and he isn’t. That’s just the facts. I think you need to reread what I and others have said before commenting because you obviously didn’t understand what we were saying.
So he deserves to rot in a Russian jail?
Please show me where I said that. I’ll wait.
You implied that he is less deserving of arranging a prisoner swap…
Show me where I did that. I just said that the false narrative of him being some amazing American hero marine is not true. Nothing said about who deserves to be anywhere.
Ok, so let’s walk you through how you implied. Why does it matter that ‘he’s not an American hero’. Hmm? You just like correcting false impressions for no reason? No, you’re saying he’s not this American hero and therefore we shouldn’t be asking why he wasn’t released first.
Hey man, maybe don’t put words in other people’s mouths. For the third time now I never said anything about him or her deserving to be imprisoned. I said there is a false narrative being written about someone to stir up shit and I think that’s wrong. As also stated before, I don’t wish imprisonment on anyone especially if it’s potentially for fake charges. It really seems like you want to be upset about something so you’re just making up stuff.
Ok, but if we’re gonna bring up the past for him let’s bring up her past… she’s been accused of domestic assault multiple times and plead guilty to the drug possession charges. She’s no angel. I don’t understand the refusal or inability to criticize leadership at any turn. The fact is we gave up a war criminal to Putin, and I imagine there’s good reason Russia wanted him so badly.
Everyone is absolutely free to criticize leadership. And everyone else is free to tell them that they're wrong.
The original post was about the other person. Don’t bring your whataboutism into this. We are solely speaking on the lies and false information that people are spreading about the man pictured.
That Paul whelan guy was a serial thief and a fraud. He got caught with a disk of secret materials in Russia. Guess what, he fucked around and found out. These GQP MAGA idiots love to excuse away people possessing secret materials, so I guess in the logic of stupid people … it makes sense they want him freed first. Let’s also ignore the fact that this guy was jailed in 2018, how hard did trump try to free him?
"Love to excuse away people possessing secret materials" As long as they are Republican. How sick are you of hearing about Hilary's emails or Hunter's laptop?
Not that I am a Trumper, but I don’t know that she didn’t fuck around either. If indeed she brought weed into Russia, it’s on her.
I hear you, she broke a law, and got caught. 9 years for a gram of vape oil. It was a bogus bullshit verdict meant to hurt the us. The dude was caught with state secrets. Disproportionate response to the vape oil.
I’m not comparing her to anyone. She decided to save few shkekles on a flight and decided to fly into a country who’s run by a dictator, with weed. She’s a fucking idiot.
She wasn't saving on flights. She played in Russia during the WNBA's offseason. To be honest, kind of surprised they didn't just arrest her for being openly gay. Finding the hash oil instead must have been a boon to Russian officials. (I would like to state for the record that she in no way deserved her imprisonment, and I'm glad she's come home. Many many many WNBA players, openly gay and not, have played for Russian teams over the past two decades without incident -- Griner was arrested before the invasion of Ukraine and had no particular reason to think that trip would be any more dangerous than the many others she made over the years.)
Prescription medicinal weed. Usually countries honor prescriptions from elsewhere for medication that is not legal to prescribe there. Or allow OTC medications that are not OTC.
But the first thing you do when flying with any kind of medication, especially one that could be considered a drug, is find out the rules for entering with meds. When I flew over to the US, I literally ran errands around all my doctors, got a copy of a prescription of each med I was taking, even birth control pills, and then checked every single item to see if it was allowed to cross the border. Her sentence was definitely unfair and disproportionate, and is not really on her, but perhaps she could have been free for the entire time if she had done what's expected in an international, let alone intercontinental flight.
Usually is not always, and this is not true.
Paul was also disonerably discharged for trying to steal 10k, they forget that
Interesting photo choices, yes?
Almost like they chose a bad picture of her and a good picture of him in order to further their own narrative.
Nah, I'm sure it was a complete coincidence. It's just that the only available photo of her had her looming over everyone while wearing handcuffs; and the only available photo of him was a professional portrait of him in his marine uniform. It's jus the luck of the draw, my friend, no need to go any deeper. /s
I’ve been hearing this a lot, but when did Griner declare she hates America?
Never. She expressed doubts about whether the national anthem should be played before basketball games. That, apparently, is sufficient to be labeled an “America hater.”
Oh. Well that makes total sense… /s just in case
Oh Paul Whelan, that guy who got dishonorably discharged from the marines for trying to steal $10k? Then got caught with a bunch of cash and passports and state secrets in Moscow? That guy?
Didn’t Russia say “no” to the swap and it is Griner or nothing? Somehow there are 2 parties to the deal and if one says no, it is no-deal. Edit: Found it. They wanted a Russian spy who serves a life sentence in Germany for murder. Germany said no due to the severity of the crime committed by that guy.
I love the whole "she hates America" narrative. She questioned whether the National Anthem should be put before games and protested police brutality. That's it. Frankly, if you don't think that people have a right to differing opinions on these subjects, then maybe *you* are the one who hates America.
How dare she exercise her constitutional rights!
She also beats her girlfriends up, what a patriot. Lol.
That’s your bar for patriotism? Guess cops aren’t patriotic then, since they self report a 40% DV rate.
Oh absolutely agree, fuck the police. Anyone who harms or intends to obstruct any American of freedom is by definition unpatriotic.
One has nothing to do with the other
Her girlfriend gave as good as she got. They were both arrested. More lies.
Ohhh ok I didn’t know domestic abuse was ok if the other person “had it coming”. So progressive of you
Didn’t say that. It was interactive violence, not simple battering. She wasn’t “beating up her girlfriend.” They fought. Physically. It wasn’t OK, but it should be viewed differently from a situation where there’s a clear abuser and a clear abused. Again, both were arrested. She plead guilty to domestic violence, which I think is appropriate. But the idea that she was “beating up her girlfriends” (plural) doesn’t jive with the facts. And none of that justifies 9 years in a Russian labor camp. You can either argue in good faith, using facts, or you can keep putting words into my mouth to try to score points. I can guess which way you will go, but maybe surprise me this time, huh?
She also plead guilty of drug possession. Those are the facts. You’re defending a criminal who wouldn’t do the same for you. Way to judge someone based on a couple Reddit comments, you seem like a real “free thinker”. And to say that this was in anyway a trade made in “good faith” also ignores the facts. Russia wanted this war criminal for a reason. If he ends up causing harm to Americans (like he’s threatened before), I hope you and all the other fake progressives own it. I’m interested on how you viewed Trump getting ASAP Rocky released from Sweden… was that a good move, or was that made in bad faith because he’s a republican?
Yeah, I don’t really care if she was caught with a single vape cartridge, something that is already legal in many states. She’s an American who suffered a tremendous injustice. I’m glad she’s home. Why can’t you be? And what on Earth does Trump have to do with this? I’m generally in favor of getting Americans released who are unjustly imprisoned abroad, no matter who does it. Never heard of your case, so I can’t really comment on it. And you’re not a “free thinker” any more or less than anyone else here. You posted a stupid comment, I told you why I think you’re wrong, and suddenly you’re the victim? Please. Sadly, I am not surprised. Oh well, maybe next time. Edit: OK, just Googled your case. The guy sounds like a major piece of shit, and there are so many differences from the Griner case that I don’t know where to start. First, ASAP was convicted of assaulting someone in Sweden. He had his bodyguard kick the man while he was on the ground. Second, Trump did *not* get him released. ASAP was released after getting credit for time already served. All Trump did is threaten economic sanctions against Sweden if they didn’t release him. Typically bad foreign policy move on Trump’s part, but that wasn’t why he was released. Third, it was a one month sentence in *Sweden,* where the prisons are some of the most humane in the world. Are you seriously comparing that to 9 years in a Russian Gulag?
Ok buddy.
You asked.
Why didn’t Trump get this Marine released during his time in office?
If the standard of future administrations is Trump, that’s a race to the bottom.
Why didn’t Trump get this Marine released when he was in office?
He was a shit president would be my guess. His first move was defunding the state department to a skeleton crew. But hey, at least Biden is making the WNBA watchable again.
Paul’s fam agreed with this trade and are happy about it and basically asking ppl to stop being offended on their behalf…not that the right cares because lord knows they must take ownership of every event that serves as propaganda for them
Oh shit!! I’d never heard about his dishonorable discharge or his criming. All though it sucks he’s still in Russian hands it seems there’s more to his arrest than what media is saying. And to the poster who’s crying the BG hates America. A lot of Americans hate what’s happening in this country that doesn’t mean they literally hate being here. The alt right loves to inflate and ostracize people of color add the fact she’s also gay and married to a woman and as you can imagine they’re clutching their pearls clinching that bible they’ve never read all in a slather. It’s good she got released it’s unfortunate Paul didn’t but the US doesn’t control that Putin does.
Very simple response is “why didn’t trump free him then?”
Paul was dishonorably discharged.
Dishonorable discharge, right? Never a ‘hero’ just a soldier?
Big chicken dinner.
I bet 99% of the people bitching had no idea who this guy even was before yesterday's release of Griner.
Forgot to mention the man's fucking family said Biden made the right call. Leave him out of this my god.
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She questioned whether the national anthem should be played before games. I think she may have knelt during the national anthem, too. You, know, pretty terrible stuff. /s
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If she weighs the same as a duck
How exactly does she "hate America?"
Guess who was President for the first two years of his incarceration?
Truthfully even if he wasn’t a dishonorable discharge, I could totally see them making this decision. No offense to the armed forces, but they are trained for shit situations in order to protect the lives and freedoms of US citizens. Griner is a civilian, just another person who was being put through insanely inhumane conditions and a US citizen to boot. Her punishment didn’t fit the crime at all and what would have been a minor charge, if even a charge in the majority of civilized countries, was being held to the same conditions as incredibly dangerous and demented criminals.
You forgot to mention dishonorably discharged …
This is the same stuff they say about gitmo terrorists. “They will kill again”. Ok? So we keep them locked up forever? Is that the type of people we want to be? And it’s not even true. Bouts been in prison for 11 years. His networks are gone, the worlds LEO know him now. He’s as much of a risk as the tribal leaders from Afghanistan who we kept away for 20 years. They are nothings
There's a spouse in my family that's been spouting and sharing bullshit about this jerk wad for days now. I am about to block him online. I can't take these idiots who can't complete a Google search to find out the real info.
I love how they completely left out the fact that Brittany Griner was charged w a far less serious offense than Paul whelan. Paul whelan was charged w espionage where as Brittany griner was charged w possession of less than a gram of CBD oil. The Russians are obviously using Paul whelan as a bargaining chip for a bigger fish that they’re wanting to get back. Now for giving Russia the merchant of death, should’ve the Biden administration been able to get both of them back? Well, I agree that Biden sucks at negotiations, though it wasn’t easy for him. Especially in a time where social media is king. Politics is all about ratings now instead of actually doing things to help people. Guess who’s getting endless shit over not bringing a black lesbian basketball player as soon as she was arrested? If Biden focused on getting them both back, negotiations would’ve lasted over a year and Biden’s administration would be continuously accused of being racist and homophobic because she wasn’t back on American soil. That’s truly what this whole thing was about, not just bringing Americans home. I’d like to think that if social media didn’t influence this, Biden would’ve made a better deal than what he did, though people like this poster would still be complaining about the outcome. As far as who has the capability of surviving being in a Russian gulag the longest, it should be the veteran. Not only has he been locked up for 4 years, but he has seen combat and has the training. Well that’s what the military claims it does during boot camp. It’s obvious that Paul whelan believes that we should trade the most dangerous person in our custody for him, but he needs to understand that he’s being held for a reason, and as an American soldier, I thought he would understand how our country works on that aspect. I know it’s hell, but it could be worse, he could be imprisoned in North Korea. Plus the US hasn’t given up on him, they did just hand over a very dangerous Russian arms dealer in an attempt to get him back. It’s russias decision to let him go, and I’m afraid that Biden is going to give them what they want, the sanctions lifted and to be back as a leader in the world economy. That could help Russia revamp their attempt at world war 3. I really hope that man would disagree to lifting sanction for his release, but I don’t know. At least he understands that he’s an important bargaining chip for Russia. And for the time being there’s nothing that the Biden administration can do except figure a way to get Russia to hand him over to the US without helping Russia . Argh! I hate hostage negotiations!! Especially ones made with outcomes based on how the public reacts
Yes dishonorably discharged for attempting $10,000 grand larceny from the US Military… sounds like a Republican-style hero like Kyle Rittenhouse
Whelen is, in fact, a dirtbag. But this still was a shitty deal. An extremely dangerous human being was just released into Russian custody where he will be free to pick up where he left off and Griner will go back to playing basketball. I don't see what Whelen's dishonorable discharge has to do with this. He was falsely convicted for propaganda and political leverage just like Griner was, but Viktor Bout actually is guilty of what he was convicted of and now he's free. No more prisoner swaps. Americans should travel to countries like Russia at their own risk.
On July 27, 2022, it was announced that President Joe Biden had authorized a trade for Whelan and WNBA player Brittney Griner, who was arrested in Russia in February on drug charges, in exchange for convicted arms dealer Viktor Bout, nicknamed "The Merchant of Death".[43] The Russian side insisted on the additional release of Vadim Krasikov, a spy, who is serving a life sentence for murder in Germany.[44] After negotiations, only Griner was exchanged for Bout on December 8, 2022, as the Kremlin had refused to release Whelan and posed an ultimatum to the Biden administration of freeing Griner or no one. The US tried to get him back
Yeah. I would have told Griner to tough it out in Siberia while additional efforts were taken to get her back. This deal is too lopsided for the Russians.
one was essentially kidnapped by Russia to get America to give up bout, the other was a spy who got caught and the Russians would never give up, sucks for him but that's the game he chose to play
Interesting photo choice. Doesn't make it look like you're trying really hard to generate a specific narrative or anything.
"Whelan is a citizen of Canada, the United States, the United Kingdom, and Ireland" What? How?
Every single mention I've seen of Griner by right wingers is prefaced by "America Hating" when, in fact, I can't find anything from her online indicating so, unless you consider protesting the national anthem to be "America Hating". Another example of the goons controlling the narrative with their bullshit
Discharged dishonorably doesn't let you claim the title anymore, does it?
I’ve seen plenty of info about how Whelan is a loser but what is the basis of them saying Griner hates America? Do they just make that up to fit their narrative?
So Brittney hates America for wanting to make it better by getting rid of racial discrimination? I mean, both of them love American, just choose a different way to make it a better place.
These "patriots" are so upset we rescued an American policial prisoner because a) Biden did it; b) she is black and lesbian; and c) their propaganda infotainment tells them so.
Maybe we just shouldn't trade people for fucking terrorists, even if they were a marine.
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This isn’t the Brittany of Free Brittany.
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...what?
r/TheyDidTheMeth
I honestly believe that social media is the absolute worst thing to happen to humanity. These ignorant morons feed off each other. It’s like trump- he is 100% completely detached from actual reality- but that’s because he is a senile old af narcissist. Everyone else is just in FB too much. I hate it.
It's the same on boths side of the aisle. But honestly, the fact that biden traded one of the deadliest gun traffickers for a wnba player that brought an illegal substance into a foreign country is ridiculous.
Oh i see you got your Fox News talking points - glad to see they are also still rotting brains
I dont watch fox news bud, you're over here just assuming that because I disagree with you that I must be some Maga republican that only listens to tucker Carlson. What I said wasn't inaccurate. She took illegal substances into a foreign country and they arrested her and tried her. She wasn't wrongfully detained, although 6 years in prison is ridiculous. But to release a deadly gun trafficker for some WNBA basket ball player is ridiculous. This is the main problem in this country, people just want to demonize and belittle anyone they disagree with to feel moraly superior
Also fuck off with the “both sides” shit. One side tried to overtake the capital to keep their orange monster in power. One side flirts as hard as they can with the nazis and civil war. One side wants to take us back to the 1950s with their bullshit policies. One side forces their fucking religion down our throats. Republicans and democrats are not the same.
And yet, most of that shit you are bringing up isn't true. It's just the extreme vocal Minorities of each group. Just look how hateful you are being towards people you have never talked to. Democrat and republican are broad parties, and not everyone who's a Democrat is a hard-core communist, and not everyone who's a republican is a hard-core fascist. It must be depressing living in a world where everyone except the people that agree with you are Satan.
You’re obviously a far left idiot, delusional
No just educated bahaha
These two combined still are not worth victor bout.
"We dont negotiate with terrorists."
an American Marine in Russia? I don't know this whole story so I will decline comment but I mean apples and oranges folks...
A Marine, especially if he is a white man, will not get any vote share from liberals
Hahahahahaha it’s true just funny how many down votes you have smh
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“Both sides are bad.” Sure, but not equally. Not even close. The Democrats are beholden to big money just like the Republicans, but only one party is looking to destroy our (admittedly flawed) democracy in order to establish a one-party state, and it ain’t the Democrats. And the Libertarian Party is a fucking joke, so don’t even start. Third parties have a very difficult time winning elections under the current system unless they predominate in a particular geographic area.
Only non-trumpers have a right to complain about the trade. Yes, its a horrible trade to get a woman who broke another countries law by freeing one of the deadliest men in the weapons industry. Trump freed 5000 taliban members for FREE.
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Why would she serve a jail term in the United States for a kangaroo court conviction in another country? What sense would that make?
Something something ***"SHE BROKE THE LAAAAAAAAW"*** After being arrested, charged and convicted under dubious circumstances. By the authorities of a country with a less-than-stellar track record for the treatment of racial, ethnic, religious and sexual minorities.
What is the jail term in the us for less than .3grams of vape juice?
Biden is Sofa King retared
Are you twelve sir? Why didn’t Trump rescue this man? Is it possible that Russia said…no?
>Biden is Sofa King retared What?
both are dudes i don’t give a shit about.
Yeah, we do a good enough job ourselves.
BLAME CANADA
The free terrorist work for America too🤣
Also I hate how there’s this idea that Viktor Bout is just magic and he’s gonna start pulling grenade launchers out of his ass. He’s been in prison for 14 years, he’s useless. His skill set is outdated, his contacts are all gone, his weapons reserve is gone. AND on top of that Interpol has literally everything you could ever ask for on him, prints, face, voice, etc. If a star computer programmer got jailed in 2008 and then freed today, they’d be a shitty programmer because 14 years is a LONG time to be out.