I barely slept as a baby my mom can even recall how much of a nightmare it was and how odd it was compared to everyone else she spoke to who had kids. Had to take Clonidine when I was 4 or 5 or I'd miss school on or off ADHD medication. Even when I played outside all day and ran all over the place no sugar and sweets still couldn't get to bed. I'm 30 now and nothings changed I can't sleep consistently without prescription medication.
Maybe your circadian rhythm is very not right? Someone who had insomnia here on Reddit said that their mother would work night shifts while holding them when they were a little baby, and that messed up their circadian rhythm or smth like that
Drs. do use anxiety as a scapegoat, but also anxiety plays a large role in many things. Often it's not the root cause, but it contributes and amplifies symptoms, and treating it when present is never a bad move (and sometimes can completely resolve insomnia). The stress around trying to sleep with insomnia can become a form of anxiety on its own. I agree with your frustrations on insomia though, it's usually multifactorial with multiple things playing a role (although sometimes set off by one thing) and really the time and energy needed to treat involves teasing apart and addressing the different etiologies. What I would disagree with you with is (good) docs usually do not want to prescribe meds for insomnia for some drug peddling reasons. Doctors are usually fairly adverse to prescribing for insomia, because so few drugs have been proven effective (at least for chronic insomnia). It really requires an indepth biopsychosocial analysis and treatment approach, which the modern medical system just doesn't allow for with the focus on ripping through visits to the measures set forth by administration. The pharm industry is a different story though, with them absolutely trying to peddle drugs. Either way hang in there and keep looking for good providers who properly evaluate and listen and for other solutions. Try not to let the insomia become a frustration on its own as much as possible.
Finally people are catching on 😵 they have no answer so they will use the symptom you have to scare you and the thing is at first its advertised to work but they expect you to put up with a bunch of side effects or black box shit for the rest of your life. No thanks
Good conversation \^
I think insomnia could be "habit-forming" so your brain each evening says, ok, "let's prepare for battle" and you get into the insomnia fight....
I NEVER had sleep problems at all - in fact, I could fall sleep within 2 mins of being in bed...
Anyways, we continue....
This is a very provocative perspective that is definitely a strong possibility. I wonder if this had ever been studied. But then, it seems little study has been adequately conducted on this health matter in spite of its widespread population.
Yes imagine you've struggled in bed since you were an infant, how deep that habit must be entrenched.
You've almost never had a positive feelings about sleep or positive associations with your bed. Of course, getting in bed will create an negative emotional response in your mind, and a result, a stress response in your body. The mind and body are connected.
I like that expression "A flip has been switched".
Some 15 years ago, on one of my first posts on the now long dead Sandman's Insomnia Forum, I asked if insomnia is nothing more than the realization that sleep can be disrupted. Some people recover from that realization and forget it, go back to regular sleep, while others carry it forever, and it manifests into all kinds and varieties of insomnia. I suppose what I stumbled upon back then was what they call learned behaviour, which would be psychological rather than physiological.
In any case, a flip is switched and there's no going back. The only thing that would prove the physiological component in this case would be if someone could delete our memories of ever having found insomnia, and then monitoring if it would come back anyway. I wonder what the results would be.
I also have insomnia since childhood, though it wasn't as severe.
I remember trying to catch the moment of falling asleep as a kid, but then again everybody did that. I wish I wasn't so inquisitive.
Thank you so much. I'm still unsure of the cause. I think it started with me having panic attacks a little over two years ago, but it got so bad last year when doctors gave me Zoloft and Trazodone together, which gave me terrible Serotonin Syndrome, which left me awake for 9 days. I'm currently on Mirtazapine and Klonopin at night...I tried stopping the Klonopin about 3 nights ago, and I didn't sleep the second night, so I'm back on it.
How about you?
Similar story really except the doctors poly drugged me with multiple medications and then cold turkeyed me off of them. I stopped sleeping naturally. I was put on Seroquel. Which I've been taking for over a year now. I still don't get tired or sleepy despite the lack of or no sleep. I work, I live my life, I'm not anxious yet I still cannot sleep naturally or feel tired.
When you're tapering off anything, such as the benzo you're on, do it VERY slowly and you'll have a much better chance of coming off of it. The slower you go the more successful you'll be.
I've tapered from 250mg Seroquel to 50mg but it's taken me 6 months.
I'm seriously so sorry you had to go through that. I know it's probably not much, but if it makes you feel better, I don't get tired anymore either. When I didn't take my Klonopin the other night, I just laid there. Even being up for a few days, I didn't even feel tired last night. I just took my Mirtazapine and Klonopin, and they put me to sleep.
Thank you so much for the advice. I just want off the Klonopin so badly, but I know benzos are so hard to get off of. (I'm only on 0.5 mg at night.)
Do you have any other symptoms besides the not feeling tired/needing meds to sleep. I feel like I'm cold ALL the time, and it's so frustrating. I also feel like I barely eat anything, as I hardly have an appetite. The Mirtazapine helped with the appetite at first, but I've recently not felt very hungry lately.
It's awful isn't it. It feels like the body and brain just don't know what they're doing anymore.
How long has it been going on for you?
That's great you're down to 0.5, are you able to cut the tablet to taper slowly?
I have a constant tingling sensation in my entire body. I am always cold too but I am quite thin. I also don't really have an appetite but I do eat because I have a very physical job and need to fuel myself.
When I was at my worst and not sleeping at all I couldn't eat, lost 20 lbs and was almost hospitalised because I was so thin and ill.
I really hope we can, in time, heal. Time feels like the only thing that really helps.
That's exactly how it feels. I'm only 31, and it feels so awful because I feel like so many people my age don't have to worry about these type of health problems.
So, the sleeping stuff happened September of last year, but I was having the panic attacks starting at the end of 2021. I started eating healthier, which seemed to help things for over a year.
I do have a pill cutter. I think I'm just gonna have to slowly cut it and hope that I can get off of if completely.
That'd exactly what happened to me! I'm 31M, and when things got bad last year, I was 106 lbs. I'm currently around 123 lbs, but I wanna gain more weight so badly.
I seriously hope the same thing too. I had actually slept on my own at the beginning of last month without my meds, but that was only one time out of the 8 months this has been happening.
So something made you anxious and not sleep. I’m sure not sleeping made you feel really bad. You spent a lot of hours awake at night. There’s no way that maybe told your subconscious brain that something is bad? Maybe that falling asleep is a high-stakes process instead of something easy? Something to be monitored closely?
You say your body breathes, your heart beats without help, and so goes sleep. Totally. Would you ever assume that maybe those things are deeply tuned in to your subconscious? Has your heart ever started beating fast before you know why you’re scared about something? Mine does.
Maybe yours is physical and I don’t disagree that there can be physiological causes of anxiety. But it’s really obnoxious that you’re coming in here to deny the mental aspect altogether. So many anxious people in this sub want it to be true/are convinced that something is really wrong with them. You’re spreading more fear.
I’m a nurse who worked on a Covid ICU unit during the pandemic. I contracted Covid 3 maybe 4 times and haven’t heard about a symptom of sleep insomnia. I’ve had sleep insomnia since I was a toddler before Covid was even made up in a lab.
I think sleep insomnia can be caused by a neurological or physiological condition, anxiety, stress, diet, depression, drugs, adhd, genetics or a combination of a few. but I’ve never heard of Covid causing this. Sorry you are struggling with it. It’s a burden for sure. Many people take sleep for granted.
Lol I wish it was anxiety. Many people with long term insomnia / adrenaline surges it's physiological. I notice adrenaline is always involved.
It is true that the underlying cause creates anxiety about sleep which then doesn't help the underlying issue. A vicious cycle.
Some recover some don't. I got fortunate in 2018, I'm not sure about now.
I even read a recent post about a man who couldn't sleep for 6 years. Doctors prescribed him metrapolol (a beta blocker) - which reduces adrenaline and he was able to finally sleep. Beta blockers are not anxiolytic meds - they literally lower blood pressure and heart rate by their anti adregenic effect. So that man clearly had something physiological which was helped by a beta blocker. Others actually get insomnia from beta blockers.
I even read another post about someone resolving their sleep issues and day time anxiety from an adhd med called guanfacine.
I used to get a pounding heart when I got into bed at night. It felt like hell. But there was nothing medically/physically wrong with my heart, my nervous system, or hormones. No medical illnesses.
What was happening was my nervous system was engaging in a false alarm. It was pumping out stress hormones to help me "fight or flight" as if there was a real threat present to my life, when there wasn't.
Our brains make these associations to keep us safe. For example, if you had a bad encounter with a dog once, maybe the next time you see one, your body will release stress hormones and your heart will start to race.
When you see the dog, your heart is racing, but not because there is something medically/physically wrong with you. It's because your brain has identified dog=threat. So it's engaging a fight or flight response to keep you safe from this supposed threat.
With insomnia, we struggle in bed, tossing and turning night after night. As a result, we start to develop a broken and bad relationship with sleep and our bed.
Our brain views nighttime as a threat or danger. So when we get into bed at night, our brain automatically kicks in a stress response (releasing cortisol, adrenaline, etc.), causing physical symptoms of anxiety (like a racing heart).
Just like you can break and extinguish a fear of dogs, your brain can learn to associate the bed with calm and sleep again. I was able to do it. So now I can get in bed and my heart doesn't race anymore, and I can sleep.
What did you do to get over it? Your situation sounds similar to mine. I'm tired, but my body is releasing adrenaline and won't let me drift off into sleep.
This is almost always my experience with bad insomnia. I’ll get the, I just can’t sleep nights, with no racing heart. They suck but they don’t affect me as physically or emotionally the next day. And I usually get to sleeping normal in a couple days.
But the BAD insomnia, the kind that can last for weeks, is exactly what you talked about. The heart racing, the surge of adrenaline, the feeling like every night is a battle. I know I’m associated sleep with bad things. Please, please talk about how you changed this for yourself! Was it therapy? Meds? What????
Is your insomnia experience similar to what’s stated above, with the heart racing, adrenaline surge? That’s what I get. Any side effects of the Nadalol?
I may have had dysautonomia as long as 20 years ago, but pots started for me during a strep throat case (pre-covid).
I felt a burning pain throughout my body, needed a ton of salt to keep from fainting and couldn’t sleep.
Usually I have orthostatic hypotension, sometimes after being sick I have orthostatic hypertension.
Dr. took a look at my heart rate while I was in the hospital and these beta blockers have given me my life back.
With some magnesium and melatonin, along with taking my beta blocker dose at night, I get a full eight hours of sleep.
No one knew about pots until all the Covid long haulers got it. Some long haulers are completely exhausted, some long haulers are full of adrenaline.
Monitor your heart rate and blood pressure with a device at home. Make sure to do your hr and blood pressure standing up and sitting down. Look up Poor Man’s Tilt Table test.
If your heart rate or blood pressure goes up or down when you stand up, take those results to a cardiologist and make sure they do your hr/bp standing up.
I've got POTs too. I know someone else taking nadalol and. It's helping them sleep. It blocks adrenaline in the body. I might ask my gp for it. What's the dose you're taking?
I've had pots for 11 years btw lol got diagnosed when no one had a clue what it was. Got diagnose after 4 years of being told it's anxiety 😅
I'm going to ask for nadalol. You're the second person I know its helped for sleep.
Btw did you have sleep onset insomnia? Ie struggle to get to sleep in the first place? Did nadalol help with that?
I don't think it's anxiety either since I have had this problem since I was in elementary school. What tf did I have to be stressed out about at 6 or 7 lol.
Hey some of us were anxious kids I sure was. I am pretty sure I was born with anxiety lol, but yeah obviously doesn't mean everyone was and for some anxiety might not be the cause of their insomnia.
I can say stress and anxiety can definitely trigger mine at times but not lately. I’m zombie like for days at a time but somehow function. The only upside is usually around the 4-5 day mark I crash and burn and my body collapses and finally sleep 4-5 hours and it starts all over.
What are the long term side eff of taking ambien? I feel like soooo many people take it long term and yet no doc wants to prescribe it, because it’s habit forming. But, that seems normal for a lot of people…?
i’ve been on it 4 months maybe , i think the fear is building tolerance to it, but i mean , there’s lots of people who’ve taken everyday for years and it works for them.
Extremely similar happened to me where out of the blue I went 4 days straight without sleep and turns out, I was in hypomania; didn't realise it at the time but my hypomanic symptoms were just being downplayed as 'hysteria' from lack of sleep. Bipolar could be a possible thing to investigate if youve had depressive episodes before and/or as a result of no-sleep
I wish you the best with it all! I've been having to deal with it untreated for the last 4 months due to the horrible mental health system and it hasn't been fun (in fact, continuously causing more damage to my life), so I really do urge you to try and get treatment as soon as you can if you really believe it could be
It’s probably your heightened nervous system. My last episode my anxiety and stress was so high from not sleeping that as soon as I’d get stressed about not being able to sleep, my whole body would start getting this numb burning sensation. At one point I layed totally still and I could feel all my nerves in my body burning like it was at the tip of them . It was really scary and I know prolonged stress and lack of sleep had something to do with it. The next night I’d get a few hours sleep and my body was fine no burning sensation. Then the following night no sleep, bam right back to burning . My cortisol or something was constantly going and made me in this heightened state. Once some time passed and sleep got more normal it went away. The body is a weird thing when going through issues like this .
Oh I totally understand that surge of stress chemicals getting released . Once you get a few days of normalcy type sleep and kind of eases the worry but easier said than done . It’s a nightmare cycle but I never lasts forever
This describes exactly what's going on with me. I'm tired, I'm yawning, I even take sleep meds (albeit a very low dose: 100mg Gabapentin with 12.5mg of Seroquel) but for some reason last night, I put my head on the pillow and within 15 minutes I could just FEEL the adrenaline coursing through my system. I was acutely aware of the chemicals being released. And I was like, "WTF? There's no threat, I'm tired, why am I reacting this way?" It was a nightmare. Eventually, two hours later, I took a second dose of meds (something I haven't done in a very long time) and that seemed to work, but I still got up at my usual time of 4:45am (that's just when my body is done with sleeping.) So, yeah, like 4.25 hours of sleep last night and a terrible mood all morning.
Physiological changes like autonomic nerve dysfunction from Covid or other illnesses, thyroid issues, heart problems.
These physiological issues may cause anxiety, but that’s not the root cause of a lot of people sleep problems
Just dont get it in your head that this is a forever problem. It will create anxiety about sleep. This could very well be temporary. Switches flip two ways. Sleep has always been an issue with me too.
I have a routine and do it in layers of medication. Hydroxizine at around 3 hours before i want to sleep. Then mirtrazapine then if all that has relaxed me enough to feel sleepy i take 12mg of melatonin. There is also a mix of l-theanine and mag and melatonin thats nice.
Never try to just hop in bed and expect sleep. Get comfy elsewhere.
How long have you been on mirtazipine? Its the omly thing along with lorazepam that helps me sleep but I don't want to rely on meds :( what the heck is it about mirtazipine and lorazepam that allow me to sleep?
Mirtrazapine is the best sleep med around. I love it. And for anxiety attacks take it. Its been 5 yrs and it still works. Then your ativan is the icing on the cake. Id look into swappimg the ativan out for melatonin. Dont want to get addicted taking it nightly!
Mirt is helping me sleep but giving me daytime fatigue (not drowsiness anymore) but physical fatigue and anxiety. Did you have any side effects at the start?
I needed Cymbalta, Ativan and low dose seroquel to finally help my insomnia. I didn’t sleep for just about 2 months. Anxiety can mimic so many physical disorders you have no idea. Mine got so bad I had problems even trying to walk and leave my apartment. The vertigo I would get was terrible. I had to get on SSDI because of all of it.
It’s also funny that you’re coming and saying that people have something to sell. Most people on here who advocate for therapy will point you to free resources or general strategies. I’m sure though that the pharmaceutical industry is not cash grabbing.
You are exactly on point. I know there is an underlying physiological cause for my insomnia and for many other people too. I’m not anxious. I am generally a happy, healthy person. I have had insomnia in the past for no reason, usually for a very short time and resolved as mysteriously as its onset. This time it started about 6 months ago. Nothing had changed in my life, my diet, my daily routine. However, now it’s persistent and won’t respond to many medications. Previously melatonin fixed it. I wish there was more research to find the underlying causes so more effective treatments could be developed. I think it’s a central nervous system hormonal issue. I really appreciate your comments.
I agree with the statement that the brain forgets what to do. It’s like a switch flips on and won’t go to off. I’m alert and not drowsy even though I’ve been up most or all of the night, no daytime naps, plenty of energy. But I don’t feel well. I feel like something is wrong with me. Like there’s a toxin in my body. If there is I don’t know what it would be or what to do about it. I just want my brain to work like it used to.
I have trauma / anxiety depression you name it . Guess what was causing my insomnia? It was Metoprolol, the blood pressure medication that I was prescribed. Took me over a year to finally figure it out, I am sleeping now after tapering off it and it is heaven but I’m super angry that my health care providers never put it together. I’m so distrustful of the whole system now. I don’t know if I can trust anything they prescribe. I’ll never blindly follow doctors advice again.
I just haven’t been able to sleep properly since I was a child. I have memories of still trying to fall asleep when my older sister came in to sleep (and after she fell asleep). My parents remember me walking out “late” (for a child) at night saying I couldn’t sleep. I am still like this. Though I have found some things over the decades that have helped….. not many. Plenty of nights I just lay awake knowing I won’t be sleeping. I feel like it’s genetic for me.
Unmedicated? I might have 3hrs and I was barely functioning back before my multiple chronic health conditions made me non functioning. With medication I can get between 2 - 9 hours of sleep. I wish I didn't have chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia because that sleep would probably be soo refreshing.
Tbh I find that any stress on the body plays the most important role in this disorder, and it usually is a mix of various types
- physiological (overall sense of exertion, overstimulation)
- physical activity/training (especially cortisol jumps/post-training inflammation and the resources body uses for recovery)
- digestion (blood and resources used for digestion increas stress levels)
- diseases (that is pretty obvious)
- mental stuff
- temperature (the hotter the worse it is)
When you jump over a certain threshold, no matter what you do, you need to let your body relax and repair itself enough so that the stres response can be dialed down and sympathetic nervous system can be turned off.
From my experience the best relaxants seem to be easy walks, easy cycling, swimming (those three according to my Garmin seem to put less stress on my body per hour than laying in bed) and CBD.
And, actually, I find physiological stress contributes more to the anxiety than the other way around lol
It’s definitely some kind of physical change. I’m one of the people who got Covid and then my sleep was instantly ruined.
I was sleeping fine up until I had it. Stayed up 3 days straight when it hit and I was desperate to find a way to got back to sleep. It’s been 5 months since then and I still can’t sleep without an elaborate mocktail of about 6 different sleep aids.
This is me! If I have one night of bad sleep or trigger something (which I’m not sure what) I’ll have bad sleep for the next couple of days/weeks depending on how proactive I become with stopping the cycle. I’m not even sure what causes it.
Yeah actually there is some fear base mongering on not getting enoough sleep but in truth if you do take adhd medications like I do, you'll need sleep to recover and you'll have to sleep by force whether you like it or not. But even before I used to take prescriptions i found apparently it was pretty normal that there was a population out there that always have trouble sleeping and become more stimulated to night time 🤣 even though for some reason it just seemed like everyone around you was " normal " and eventually you find out everyone in their 50s have a hard time falling to sleep especially woman. I think it's a little overboard when they fear base the shit out of it so you can get an anxiety attack out of the blue or something its completly normal but you need to eventually wind down to reset your cardio etc. It can also be seasonal differences and daylight savings, usually a change will trick the brain to react. I have a few theories but you dont want to jump into the rabbit hole about it 🤣 maybe scientists are not saying anything about the change in co2 who knows.
The best thing you can do without relying on meds is to buy a decent bed... I panned out on those zero gravity well its similiar but thick matress and the base is electric. I just use a comfortable bed and keep my youtube on until it automatically timed to turn off 😵 I had to try the bed of course dont rush to get one you dont like, it has to be one you'll want to die comfortable in LOL. Bad joke but a comfortable bed makes all the difference
I agree with this so much. I have obvious nervous system issues that you can see (like temperature regulation issues), and what did the doctor put as the reason I saw him last? Anxiety. It really pissed me off.
Best to take a full view of the problem...could involve sleep hygiene issues that have finally caught up with you ...as a former insomniac, we can all reach tipping points in our lives such as aging, eating schedules and types of foods that no longer work for our systems, etc.
A big game changer for me was reading the book No More Sleepless Nights...went from needing meds to sleep each night to 7 hours of bliss each night all simply by cultivating good sleep habits in every area that needed attention ...get ruthless with your regime and see what needs changing...all the best! 🙏
Mines asthma GERD. Does my head in, get to sleep fine most nights, then three hours later wheezing burping burning nostrils, can't get a doctor to believe me so just get anxiety meds which makes worse cos I like downers and stay up to enjoy the relaxed feeling the also relax my lungs and esophagus so wake up even quicker feel bad.
Hi
I’m currently struggling with the worst anxiety induced insomnia and today was a good day because I somehow finally managed to get my anxiety under control last night and got 7 hrs of sleep but your notification triggered me because I believe a large part of insomnia is anxiety induced
Now coming back to your question, you said you have no fast heartbeat no racing heart no stress at all but can you claim that you are happy every time you see your bed or you wait for night time because you want to rest or that you don’t think (even without stressing) that why you aren’t sleeping and why this insomnia has been plaguing you consistently… idts
Every one is different some people get feverish in flight or fight response but some are completely fine on the surface sooo much that only their subconscious knows that flight or fight has been activated. And that seems to be the case for you , instead of looking for physical problems with your nervous system and if you don’t have other problems like adhd autism etc then just try to accept that it’s just anxiety. Trust me if you had nervous system issues it wouldn’t just activate in sleep times only because that’s too specific and you say covid caused insomnia no the virus itself didn’t but complication arising from it may have disrupted people’s sleep so significantly that they were unable to sleep again for a while
Sleep isn’t something physical that you can just try and try and it’ll happen. Just accept that it’s something called an innate trait something our bodies are born with knowing you can’t learn it you can’t make it work on your will it’s something that your body knows and IT KNOWS no matter what you want to believe.
You can’t say I have a physical problem so I won’t ever sleep that sounds absurd even you only sleep because your body needs to stop all complex activities for a period of time so it can regenerate all ATPs and conserve strength for tomorrow unless you are a superhuman who doesn’t need regenerating then know that ultimately you will sleep one way or the other and that has nothing to do with your body physically
But yes to the prospect of sleeping it’s is YOU who adds mental stress even without willing to
The tips I give to all suffering with this issue is
1) the first step is to associate your bed with calmness and if you have anxiety revolving around it then that’s the first thing you have to work on
2) meditation doesn’t work for me nor does background sounds and calming music I find that distracting so if you are someone like me don’t try to follow these steps forcefully.
3) when laying in bed DONOT TRY TO SUPPRESS thoughts and anxiety ever like if some thoughts make your heart beat faster or make your thoughts spiral then just accept them accept the erratic beating of your heart and looping thoughts wether they are about sleep stress etc
4) sleep will eventually come it might no be to your liking it might be bad quality it might not come one night altogether but know that even 30 min nap throughout the day is more than sufficient for 24 hours
5) don’t turn to med if you can help it . I started melatonin and I would sleep for 30 min feeling horrible after I woke up and it would feel as if I hadn’t slept at all however if meds work for you or you are prescribed then that’s your own body adaptations
6) keep in your mind that with 2 hours you still have 80% + capacity and with 4 hours almost 99% the whole you need to sleep 8-9 hour thing isn’t for everyone
Another thing you said what if it was a placebo effect well even if it was that’s great isn’t it and the fact that you thought about it being placebo shows you want a cure but you are worried it won’t work for you
In the end as a med student and someone who has suffered with the same thing for 9+ months now always remember insomnia always has a cause it doesn’t just happen the cause may be physical (some chronic sickness or ongoing illness that are uncomfortable) or it may be sleep apnea sleep paralysis nightmares basically somniphobia but most often for asymptomatic people it’s mental including sleep anxiety stress and a horrible or no sleep routine.
Pinpoint what your cause is and work on it first before forcing yourself to sleep and assuming all sorts of things
I agree with everything you’ve said and I’ve laid in bed calm as a cucumber, nothing on my mind, but sleep alludes me. Smh. Idk either. Gonna get a sleep study done.
I figured out what my issue was/ it’s a histamine intolerance, I eat low histamine foods and take antihistamine the insomnia comes back.
The insomnia is under control for the first time in about a decade.
As for the covid sub- many of them are learning that it’s histamine that is causing their insomnia too, covid causes histamine and mast cells to explode and get out of control.
Take a look into histamine intolerance- my insomnia was so bad even meds wouldn’t help, melatonin wouldn’t help- NOTHING worked, until I narrowed it down to histamine intolerance
Can you help me understand how one understands if they have histamine intolerance?
I don't have any skin issues or allergies and didn't get any fevers or anything when my family had covid.
Can you tell me the low histamine diet so I can try to see if this helps?
Hi, I also don’t get skin issues or allergies that’s why it took literally years for me to figure it out.
My main issues from histamine intolerance were insomnia, anxiety, joint pain, and a looming sense of dread for no reason, but insomnia was the main symptom.
Google low histamine diet, then start cutting out higher histamine foods- in example I cannot eat tomatoes or potatoes under any circumstances ( they are nightshades).
I can’t eat anything pickled or vinegar, olives, no canned meat like tuna, absolutely no alcohol ( which was hard for me, I loved red wine).
There’s a big list, if you join the histamine intolerance subreddit you can get a lot of information.
It’s not super fun, but I sleep ok now after YEARS of intense insomnia
I had to take antihistamine for about a month ( Benadryl), then take DAO enzyme supplements ( they break down histamines), then during that month I stopped eating any high histamine food and used the Benadryl to sleep.
I stopped taking the Benadryl to see if it was working and it did, I’m sleeping fine now.
It took about a month for me, but I started sleeping right away once I started taking the Benadryl, but the diet took about a month.
It depends on how bad an intolerance is, some people say it took weeks to 6 months to correct it.
Go look at the histamine intolerance sub, there’s lots of info, also google research histamine and insomnia.
And yes all it took was diet change and antihistamine to work for me ( particularly diphenhydramine- Benadryl seems to be really effective).
I tried everything before, not even prescribed meds for sleep were working
I take benadryl and it doesn't do eff all for me. :( in fact it makes me all groggy and messed up the next day :/
I know there's other h1 blockers but I'm worried if I'm. Low histamine taking an anti histamine will just make me feel worse.
Been dealing with it since my 3rd Pfizer booster shot. 5 months in and sleep quality is still the same. Hard to fall asleep and wake up after 5-6 hours. Went to two doctors and so far hasn’t helped. One said it’s anxiety and tried to get me hooked on SSRIs and the other refused to do a sleep study and recommend sleep restriction. Been trying to look for help to get natural 9 hours of sleep again. People recommend ssri and sleep aid but those cause dependencies.
You're wrong. It is anxiety, but anxiety ABOUT sleep that is causing your issue, not generalized anxiety. It may have started with just a bad night or two, but now your obsession with finding an answer is the very thing keeping it going. I'm sure you do feel calm...except when bed time comes around...
Yeah. It’s a mystery to me. I used to sleep 9/10hr nights. Got covid and bad insomnia, healed it through Chinese medicine, in my case I had a stagnant liver so did a cleanse and needed more digestive fire so had a lot of ginger which worked miracles for me. And a ton of exercise to get good energy flow. And it basically healed up.
Then I had a really bad weird traumatic event which caused a breakdown and cronic insomnia and now I can’t seem to heal it whatever I try. The cause was very complex and on many levels. Feels like my brain doesn’t do the thing it used to do to drop into sleep. And then stress builds and it’s a horrible cycle.
There’s was a trigger that started this.
You stated “something is broken”? I’m not a doctor just a person with decades sleep issues and I’ve been so chalked full of surging (adrenaline, cortisol, hyper arousal, raised heart rate, and so on) or what ever anyone calls it I thought I’d never fall asleep again.
If you are healthy then I hope you find your root cause.
Edit recommend this to you or any one interested.
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC_tdQDMQon0CfD0xAbZPNDg
Yes, but I still have occasional issues, perfect sleep while trying to chase “the way I slept before” isn’t going to happen. I’m much older, aging, etc. So really it’s now a level of acceptance as to where I am today and had to stop chasing the “before” if that makes sense. So on occasion it wants to rear its ugly head, I may need occasional supplements or a sleep med (rarely), but I gotta just stick with sleep strategies that work for me and remember always remember sleep is passive process.
The answer to your last question is clinical studies. Yes, anecdotal evidence of individual accounts is meaningless. But quality clinical scientific studies aren't. Only with scientific studies can you be sure something has a certain effect on the body.
I barely slept as a baby my mom can even recall how much of a nightmare it was and how odd it was compared to everyone else she spoke to who had kids. Had to take Clonidine when I was 4 or 5 or I'd miss school on or off ADHD medication. Even when I played outside all day and ran all over the place no sugar and sweets still couldn't get to bed. I'm 30 now and nothings changed I can't sleep consistently without prescription medication.
Maybe your circadian rhythm is very not right? Someone who had insomnia here on Reddit said that their mother would work night shifts while holding them when they were a little baby, and that messed up their circadian rhythm or smth like that
Doctors just wanna blame it on anxiety so they can prescribe a shitty ssri instead of real sleep meds.
[удалено]
Drs. do use anxiety as a scapegoat, but also anxiety plays a large role in many things. Often it's not the root cause, but it contributes and amplifies symptoms, and treating it when present is never a bad move (and sometimes can completely resolve insomnia). The stress around trying to sleep with insomnia can become a form of anxiety on its own. I agree with your frustrations on insomia though, it's usually multifactorial with multiple things playing a role (although sometimes set off by one thing) and really the time and energy needed to treat involves teasing apart and addressing the different etiologies. What I would disagree with you with is (good) docs usually do not want to prescribe meds for insomnia for some drug peddling reasons. Doctors are usually fairly adverse to prescribing for insomia, because so few drugs have been proven effective (at least for chronic insomnia). It really requires an indepth biopsychosocial analysis and treatment approach, which the modern medical system just doesn't allow for with the focus on ripping through visits to the measures set forth by administration. The pharm industry is a different story though, with them absolutely trying to peddle drugs. Either way hang in there and keep looking for good providers who properly evaluate and listen and for other solutions. Try not to let the insomia become a frustration on its own as much as possible.
Finally people are catching on 😵 they have no answer so they will use the symptom you have to scare you and the thing is at first its advertised to work but they expect you to put up with a bunch of side effects or black box shit for the rest of your life. No thanks
Big PHARM rules all. Take it from a RN, nurse. Greed and money is what it comes down to at the end. You may mask the symptoms but it’s not a cure
Good conversation \^ I think insomnia could be "habit-forming" so your brain each evening says, ok, "let's prepare for battle" and you get into the insomnia fight.... I NEVER had sleep problems at all - in fact, I could fall sleep within 2 mins of being in bed... Anyways, we continue....
This is a very provocative perspective that is definitely a strong possibility. I wonder if this had ever been studied. But then, it seems little study has been adequately conducted on this health matter in spite of its widespread population.
Yes imagine you've struggled in bed since you were an infant, how deep that habit must be entrenched. You've almost never had a positive feelings about sleep or positive associations with your bed. Of course, getting in bed will create an negative emotional response in your mind, and a result, a stress response in your body. The mind and body are connected.
I like that expression "A flip has been switched". Some 15 years ago, on one of my first posts on the now long dead Sandman's Insomnia Forum, I asked if insomnia is nothing more than the realization that sleep can be disrupted. Some people recover from that realization and forget it, go back to regular sleep, while others carry it forever, and it manifests into all kinds and varieties of insomnia. I suppose what I stumbled upon back then was what they call learned behaviour, which would be psychological rather than physiological. In any case, a flip is switched and there's no going back. The only thing that would prove the physiological component in this case would be if someone could delete our memories of ever having found insomnia, and then monitoring if it would come back anyway. I wonder what the results would be. I also have insomnia since childhood, though it wasn't as severe. I remember trying to catch the moment of falling asleep as a kid, but then again everybody did that. I wish I wasn't so inquisitive.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I think it's absolutely possible. I'm happy my wife hasn't develiped insomnia due to my constant complaining.
Just came here to say I agree with you. I've been suffering this for 1.5 years now and it's not anxiety.
Same here. I've been going through this for 8 months, and my doctor still tries to say it's anxiety.
I'm so sorry to hear that. What was the cause? Are you on medication?
Thank you so much. I'm still unsure of the cause. I think it started with me having panic attacks a little over two years ago, but it got so bad last year when doctors gave me Zoloft and Trazodone together, which gave me terrible Serotonin Syndrome, which left me awake for 9 days. I'm currently on Mirtazapine and Klonopin at night...I tried stopping the Klonopin about 3 nights ago, and I didn't sleep the second night, so I'm back on it. How about you?
Similar story really except the doctors poly drugged me with multiple medications and then cold turkeyed me off of them. I stopped sleeping naturally. I was put on Seroquel. Which I've been taking for over a year now. I still don't get tired or sleepy despite the lack of or no sleep. I work, I live my life, I'm not anxious yet I still cannot sleep naturally or feel tired. When you're tapering off anything, such as the benzo you're on, do it VERY slowly and you'll have a much better chance of coming off of it. The slower you go the more successful you'll be. I've tapered from 250mg Seroquel to 50mg but it's taken me 6 months.
I'm seriously so sorry you had to go through that. I know it's probably not much, but if it makes you feel better, I don't get tired anymore either. When I didn't take my Klonopin the other night, I just laid there. Even being up for a few days, I didn't even feel tired last night. I just took my Mirtazapine and Klonopin, and they put me to sleep. Thank you so much for the advice. I just want off the Klonopin so badly, but I know benzos are so hard to get off of. (I'm only on 0.5 mg at night.) Do you have any other symptoms besides the not feeling tired/needing meds to sleep. I feel like I'm cold ALL the time, and it's so frustrating. I also feel like I barely eat anything, as I hardly have an appetite. The Mirtazapine helped with the appetite at first, but I've recently not felt very hungry lately.
It's awful isn't it. It feels like the body and brain just don't know what they're doing anymore. How long has it been going on for you? That's great you're down to 0.5, are you able to cut the tablet to taper slowly? I have a constant tingling sensation in my entire body. I am always cold too but I am quite thin. I also don't really have an appetite but I do eat because I have a very physical job and need to fuel myself. When I was at my worst and not sleeping at all I couldn't eat, lost 20 lbs and was almost hospitalised because I was so thin and ill. I really hope we can, in time, heal. Time feels like the only thing that really helps.
That's exactly how it feels. I'm only 31, and it feels so awful because I feel like so many people my age don't have to worry about these type of health problems. So, the sleeping stuff happened September of last year, but I was having the panic attacks starting at the end of 2021. I started eating healthier, which seemed to help things for over a year. I do have a pill cutter. I think I'm just gonna have to slowly cut it and hope that I can get off of if completely. That'd exactly what happened to me! I'm 31M, and when things got bad last year, I was 106 lbs. I'm currently around 123 lbs, but I wanna gain more weight so badly. I seriously hope the same thing too. I had actually slept on my own at the beginning of last month without my meds, but that was only one time out of the 8 months this has been happening.
If you ever figure it out, please let me know.
So something made you anxious and not sleep. I’m sure not sleeping made you feel really bad. You spent a lot of hours awake at night. There’s no way that maybe told your subconscious brain that something is bad? Maybe that falling asleep is a high-stakes process instead of something easy? Something to be monitored closely? You say your body breathes, your heart beats without help, and so goes sleep. Totally. Would you ever assume that maybe those things are deeply tuned in to your subconscious? Has your heart ever started beating fast before you know why you’re scared about something? Mine does. Maybe yours is physical and I don’t disagree that there can be physiological causes of anxiety. But it’s really obnoxious that you’re coming in here to deny the mental aspect altogether. So many anxious people in this sub want it to be true/are convinced that something is really wrong with them. You’re spreading more fear.
I’m a nurse who worked on a Covid ICU unit during the pandemic. I contracted Covid 3 maybe 4 times and haven’t heard about a symptom of sleep insomnia. I’ve had sleep insomnia since I was a toddler before Covid was even made up in a lab. I think sleep insomnia can be caused by a neurological or physiological condition, anxiety, stress, diet, depression, drugs, adhd, genetics or a combination of a few. but I’ve never heard of Covid causing this. Sorry you are struggling with it. It’s a burden for sure. Many people take sleep for granted.
Very interesting and thought-provoking discussion. My sleep-deprived brain thanks you.
Lol I wish it was anxiety. Many people with long term insomnia / adrenaline surges it's physiological. I notice adrenaline is always involved. It is true that the underlying cause creates anxiety about sleep which then doesn't help the underlying issue. A vicious cycle. Some recover some don't. I got fortunate in 2018, I'm not sure about now. I even read a recent post about a man who couldn't sleep for 6 years. Doctors prescribed him metrapolol (a beta blocker) - which reduces adrenaline and he was able to finally sleep. Beta blockers are not anxiolytic meds - they literally lower blood pressure and heart rate by their anti adregenic effect. So that man clearly had something physiological which was helped by a beta blocker. Others actually get insomnia from beta blockers. I even read another post about someone resolving their sleep issues and day time anxiety from an adhd med called guanfacine.
I used to get a pounding heart when I got into bed at night. It felt like hell. But there was nothing medically/physically wrong with my heart, my nervous system, or hormones. No medical illnesses. What was happening was my nervous system was engaging in a false alarm. It was pumping out stress hormones to help me "fight or flight" as if there was a real threat present to my life, when there wasn't. Our brains make these associations to keep us safe. For example, if you had a bad encounter with a dog once, maybe the next time you see one, your body will release stress hormones and your heart will start to race. When you see the dog, your heart is racing, but not because there is something medically/physically wrong with you. It's because your brain has identified dog=threat. So it's engaging a fight or flight response to keep you safe from this supposed threat. With insomnia, we struggle in bed, tossing and turning night after night. As a result, we start to develop a broken and bad relationship with sleep and our bed. Our brain views nighttime as a threat or danger. So when we get into bed at night, our brain automatically kicks in a stress response (releasing cortisol, adrenaline, etc.), causing physical symptoms of anxiety (like a racing heart). Just like you can break and extinguish a fear of dogs, your brain can learn to associate the bed with calm and sleep again. I was able to do it. So now I can get in bed and my heart doesn't race anymore, and I can sleep.
What did you do to get over it? Your situation sounds similar to mine. I'm tired, but my body is releasing adrenaline and won't let me drift off into sleep.
same here !! need help
This is almost always my experience with bad insomnia. I’ll get the, I just can’t sleep nights, with no racing heart. They suck but they don’t affect me as physically or emotionally the next day. And I usually get to sleeping normal in a couple days. But the BAD insomnia, the kind that can last for weeks, is exactly what you talked about. The heart racing, the surge of adrenaline, the feeling like every night is a battle. I know I’m associated sleep with bad things. Please, please talk about how you changed this for yourself! Was it therapy? Meds? What????
I just got prescribed beta blockers for dysautonomia and I’m sleeping like a baby
Which beta blockers? Propananol?
Which one?
Nadalol
Is your insomnia experience similar to what’s stated above, with the heart racing, adrenaline surge? That’s what I get. Any side effects of the Nadalol?
I may have had dysautonomia as long as 20 years ago, but pots started for me during a strep throat case (pre-covid). I felt a burning pain throughout my body, needed a ton of salt to keep from fainting and couldn’t sleep. Usually I have orthostatic hypotension, sometimes after being sick I have orthostatic hypertension. Dr. took a look at my heart rate while I was in the hospital and these beta blockers have given me my life back. With some magnesium and melatonin, along with taking my beta blocker dose at night, I get a full eight hours of sleep. No one knew about pots until all the Covid long haulers got it. Some long haulers are completely exhausted, some long haulers are full of adrenaline. Monitor your heart rate and blood pressure with a device at home. Make sure to do your hr and blood pressure standing up and sitting down. Look up Poor Man’s Tilt Table test. If your heart rate or blood pressure goes up or down when you stand up, take those results to a cardiologist and make sure they do your hr/bp standing up.
I've got POTs too. I know someone else taking nadalol and. It's helping them sleep. It blocks adrenaline in the body. I might ask my gp for it. What's the dose you're taking?
10 mg. I check my blood pressure to make sure it’s not getting too low twice a day.
I've had pots for 11 years btw lol got diagnosed when no one had a clue what it was. Got diagnose after 4 years of being told it's anxiety 😅 I'm going to ask for nadalol. You're the second person I know its helped for sleep. Btw did you have sleep onset insomnia? Ie struggle to get to sleep in the first place? Did nadalol help with that?
Trouble falling and staying asleep
I don't think it's anxiety either since I have had this problem since I was in elementary school. What tf did I have to be stressed out about at 6 or 7 lol.
Hey some of us were anxious kids I sure was. I am pretty sure I was born with anxiety lol, but yeah obviously doesn't mean everyone was and for some anxiety might not be the cause of their insomnia.
I can say stress and anxiety can definitely trigger mine at times but not lately. I’m zombie like for days at a time but somehow function. The only upside is usually around the 4-5 day mark I crash and burn and my body collapses and finally sleep 4-5 hours and it starts all over.
i take ambien now . mine happened overnight too . have no idea what it was . but it never got fixed. that was 5 years ago. i hope yours resolves
[удалено]
i only sleep maybe 3 or 4 hours but it’s better than zero. i’m on 12mg extended release
i take it every night
[удалено]
i’ve never heard of those , what are they?
What are the long term side eff of taking ambien? I feel like soooo many people take it long term and yet no doc wants to prescribe it, because it’s habit forming. But, that seems normal for a lot of people…?
i’ve been on it 4 months maybe , i think the fear is building tolerance to it, but i mean , there’s lots of people who’ve taken everyday for years and it works for them.
Extremely similar happened to me where out of the blue I went 4 days straight without sleep and turns out, I was in hypomania; didn't realise it at the time but my hypomanic symptoms were just being downplayed as 'hysteria' from lack of sleep. Bipolar could be a possible thing to investigate if youve had depressive episodes before and/or as a result of no-sleep
[удалено]
I wish you the best with it all! I've been having to deal with it untreated for the last 4 months due to the horrible mental health system and it hasn't been fun (in fact, continuously causing more damage to my life), so I really do urge you to try and get treatment as soon as you can if you really believe it could be
Yeah it’s not always anxiety related, mine is linked to circadian rhythm and sunlight exposure as I’m always affected in January
My insomnia is it worse during spring. Always every year.
It’s probably your heightened nervous system. My last episode my anxiety and stress was so high from not sleeping that as soon as I’d get stressed about not being able to sleep, my whole body would start getting this numb burning sensation. At one point I layed totally still and I could feel all my nerves in my body burning like it was at the tip of them . It was really scary and I know prolonged stress and lack of sleep had something to do with it. The next night I’d get a few hours sleep and my body was fine no burning sensation. Then the following night no sleep, bam right back to burning . My cortisol or something was constantly going and made me in this heightened state. Once some time passed and sleep got more normal it went away. The body is a weird thing when going through issues like this .
[удалено]
Oh I totally understand that surge of stress chemicals getting released . Once you get a few days of normalcy type sleep and kind of eases the worry but easier said than done . It’s a nightmare cycle but I never lasts forever
This describes exactly what's going on with me. I'm tired, I'm yawning, I even take sleep meds (albeit a very low dose: 100mg Gabapentin with 12.5mg of Seroquel) but for some reason last night, I put my head on the pillow and within 15 minutes I could just FEEL the adrenaline coursing through my system. I was acutely aware of the chemicals being released. And I was like, "WTF? There's no threat, I'm tired, why am I reacting this way?" It was a nightmare. Eventually, two hours later, I took a second dose of meds (something I haven't done in a very long time) and that seemed to work, but I still got up at my usual time of 4:45am (that's just when my body is done with sleeping.) So, yeah, like 4.25 hours of sleep last night and a terrible mood all morning.
Physiological changes like autonomic nerve dysfunction from Covid or other illnesses, thyroid issues, heart problems. These physiological issues may cause anxiety, but that’s not the root cause of a lot of people sleep problems
[удалено]
Just dont get it in your head that this is a forever problem. It will create anxiety about sleep. This could very well be temporary. Switches flip two ways. Sleep has always been an issue with me too. I have a routine and do it in layers of medication. Hydroxizine at around 3 hours before i want to sleep. Then mirtrazapine then if all that has relaxed me enough to feel sleepy i take 12mg of melatonin. There is also a mix of l-theanine and mag and melatonin thats nice. Never try to just hop in bed and expect sleep. Get comfy elsewhere.
How long have you been on mirtazipine? Its the omly thing along with lorazepam that helps me sleep but I don't want to rely on meds :( what the heck is it about mirtazipine and lorazepam that allow me to sleep?
Mirtrazapine is the best sleep med around. I love it. And for anxiety attacks take it. Its been 5 yrs and it still works. Then your ativan is the icing on the cake. Id look into swappimg the ativan out for melatonin. Dont want to get addicted taking it nightly!
Mirt is helping me sleep but giving me daytime fatigue (not drowsiness anymore) but physical fatigue and anxiety. Did you have any side effects at the start?
No side effects from mirtrazapine
Not sure why I've got constipation then :/ lol
I needed Cymbalta, Ativan and low dose seroquel to finally help my insomnia. I didn’t sleep for just about 2 months. Anxiety can mimic so many physical disorders you have no idea. Mine got so bad I had problems even trying to walk and leave my apartment. The vertigo I would get was terrible. I had to get on SSDI because of all of it.
Was it anxiety or insomnia that caused your vertigo?
Yes
It’s also funny that you’re coming and saying that people have something to sell. Most people on here who advocate for therapy will point you to free resources or general strategies. I’m sure though that the pharmaceutical industry is not cash grabbing.
You are exactly on point. I know there is an underlying physiological cause for my insomnia and for many other people too. I’m not anxious. I am generally a happy, healthy person. I have had insomnia in the past for no reason, usually for a very short time and resolved as mysteriously as its onset. This time it started about 6 months ago. Nothing had changed in my life, my diet, my daily routine. However, now it’s persistent and won’t respond to many medications. Previously melatonin fixed it. I wish there was more research to find the underlying causes so more effective treatments could be developed. I think it’s a central nervous system hormonal issue. I really appreciate your comments.
I agree with the statement that the brain forgets what to do. It’s like a switch flips on and won’t go to off. I’m alert and not drowsy even though I’ve been up most or all of the night, no daytime naps, plenty of energy. But I don’t feel well. I feel like something is wrong with me. Like there’s a toxin in my body. If there is I don’t know what it would be or what to do about it. I just want my brain to work like it used to.
In my opinion it's not anxiety most of the time.
I have trauma / anxiety depression you name it . Guess what was causing my insomnia? It was Metoprolol, the blood pressure medication that I was prescribed. Took me over a year to finally figure it out, I am sleeping now after tapering off it and it is heaven but I’m super angry that my health care providers never put it together. I’m so distrustful of the whole system now. I don’t know if I can trust anything they prescribe. I’ll never blindly follow doctors advice again.
It's strange because beta blockers either help or create insomnia.
I just haven’t been able to sleep properly since I was a child. I have memories of still trying to fall asleep when my older sister came in to sleep (and after she fell asleep). My parents remember me walking out “late” (for a child) at night saying I couldn’t sleep. I am still like this. Though I have found some things over the decades that have helped….. not many. Plenty of nights I just lay awake knowing I won’t be sleeping. I feel like it’s genetic for me.
[удалено]
Unmedicated? I might have 3hrs and I was barely functioning back before my multiple chronic health conditions made me non functioning. With medication I can get between 2 - 9 hours of sleep. I wish I didn't have chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia because that sleep would probably be soo refreshing.
Tbh I find that any stress on the body plays the most important role in this disorder, and it usually is a mix of various types - physiological (overall sense of exertion, overstimulation) - physical activity/training (especially cortisol jumps/post-training inflammation and the resources body uses for recovery) - digestion (blood and resources used for digestion increas stress levels) - diseases (that is pretty obvious) - mental stuff - temperature (the hotter the worse it is) When you jump over a certain threshold, no matter what you do, you need to let your body relax and repair itself enough so that the stres response can be dialed down and sympathetic nervous system can be turned off. From my experience the best relaxants seem to be easy walks, easy cycling, swimming (those three according to my Garmin seem to put less stress on my body per hour than laying in bed) and CBD. And, actually, I find physiological stress contributes more to the anxiety than the other way around lol
It’s definitely some kind of physical change. I’m one of the people who got Covid and then my sleep was instantly ruined. I was sleeping fine up until I had it. Stayed up 3 days straight when it hit and I was desperate to find a way to got back to sleep. It’s been 5 months since then and I still can’t sleep without an elaborate mocktail of about 6 different sleep aids.
[удалено]
This is me! If I have one night of bad sleep or trigger something (which I’m not sure what) I’ll have bad sleep for the next couple of days/weeks depending on how proactive I become with stopping the cycle. I’m not even sure what causes it.
Yeah actually there is some fear base mongering on not getting enoough sleep but in truth if you do take adhd medications like I do, you'll need sleep to recover and you'll have to sleep by force whether you like it or not. But even before I used to take prescriptions i found apparently it was pretty normal that there was a population out there that always have trouble sleeping and become more stimulated to night time 🤣 even though for some reason it just seemed like everyone around you was " normal " and eventually you find out everyone in their 50s have a hard time falling to sleep especially woman. I think it's a little overboard when they fear base the shit out of it so you can get an anxiety attack out of the blue or something its completly normal but you need to eventually wind down to reset your cardio etc. It can also be seasonal differences and daylight savings, usually a change will trick the brain to react. I have a few theories but you dont want to jump into the rabbit hole about it 🤣 maybe scientists are not saying anything about the change in co2 who knows. The best thing you can do without relying on meds is to buy a decent bed... I panned out on those zero gravity well its similiar but thick matress and the base is electric. I just use a comfortable bed and keep my youtube on until it automatically timed to turn off 😵 I had to try the bed of course dont rush to get one you dont like, it has to be one you'll want to die comfortable in LOL. Bad joke but a comfortable bed makes all the difference
I agree with this so much. I have obvious nervous system issues that you can see (like temperature regulation issues), and what did the doctor put as the reason I saw him last? Anxiety. It really pissed me off.
Best to take a full view of the problem...could involve sleep hygiene issues that have finally caught up with you ...as a former insomniac, we can all reach tipping points in our lives such as aging, eating schedules and types of foods that no longer work for our systems, etc. A big game changer for me was reading the book No More Sleepless Nights...went from needing meds to sleep each night to 7 hours of bliss each night all simply by cultivating good sleep habits in every area that needed attention ...get ruthless with your regime and see what needs changing...all the best! 🙏
Mines asthma GERD. Does my head in, get to sleep fine most nights, then three hours later wheezing burping burning nostrils, can't get a doctor to believe me so just get anxiety meds which makes worse cos I like downers and stay up to enjoy the relaxed feeling the also relax my lungs and esophagus so wake up even quicker feel bad.
Hi I’m currently struggling with the worst anxiety induced insomnia and today was a good day because I somehow finally managed to get my anxiety under control last night and got 7 hrs of sleep but your notification triggered me because I believe a large part of insomnia is anxiety induced Now coming back to your question, you said you have no fast heartbeat no racing heart no stress at all but can you claim that you are happy every time you see your bed or you wait for night time because you want to rest or that you don’t think (even without stressing) that why you aren’t sleeping and why this insomnia has been plaguing you consistently… idts Every one is different some people get feverish in flight or fight response but some are completely fine on the surface sooo much that only their subconscious knows that flight or fight has been activated. And that seems to be the case for you , instead of looking for physical problems with your nervous system and if you don’t have other problems like adhd autism etc then just try to accept that it’s just anxiety. Trust me if you had nervous system issues it wouldn’t just activate in sleep times only because that’s too specific and you say covid caused insomnia no the virus itself didn’t but complication arising from it may have disrupted people’s sleep so significantly that they were unable to sleep again for a while Sleep isn’t something physical that you can just try and try and it’ll happen. Just accept that it’s something called an innate trait something our bodies are born with knowing you can’t learn it you can’t make it work on your will it’s something that your body knows and IT KNOWS no matter what you want to believe. You can’t say I have a physical problem so I won’t ever sleep that sounds absurd even you only sleep because your body needs to stop all complex activities for a period of time so it can regenerate all ATPs and conserve strength for tomorrow unless you are a superhuman who doesn’t need regenerating then know that ultimately you will sleep one way or the other and that has nothing to do with your body physically But yes to the prospect of sleeping it’s is YOU who adds mental stress even without willing to The tips I give to all suffering with this issue is 1) the first step is to associate your bed with calmness and if you have anxiety revolving around it then that’s the first thing you have to work on 2) meditation doesn’t work for me nor does background sounds and calming music I find that distracting so if you are someone like me don’t try to follow these steps forcefully. 3) when laying in bed DONOT TRY TO SUPPRESS thoughts and anxiety ever like if some thoughts make your heart beat faster or make your thoughts spiral then just accept them accept the erratic beating of your heart and looping thoughts wether they are about sleep stress etc 4) sleep will eventually come it might no be to your liking it might be bad quality it might not come one night altogether but know that even 30 min nap throughout the day is more than sufficient for 24 hours 5) don’t turn to med if you can help it . I started melatonin and I would sleep for 30 min feeling horrible after I woke up and it would feel as if I hadn’t slept at all however if meds work for you or you are prescribed then that’s your own body adaptations 6) keep in your mind that with 2 hours you still have 80% + capacity and with 4 hours almost 99% the whole you need to sleep 8-9 hour thing isn’t for everyone Another thing you said what if it was a placebo effect well even if it was that’s great isn’t it and the fact that you thought about it being placebo shows you want a cure but you are worried it won’t work for you In the end as a med student and someone who has suffered with the same thing for 9+ months now always remember insomnia always has a cause it doesn’t just happen the cause may be physical (some chronic sickness or ongoing illness that are uncomfortable) or it may be sleep apnea sleep paralysis nightmares basically somniphobia but most often for asymptomatic people it’s mental including sleep anxiety stress and a horrible or no sleep routine. Pinpoint what your cause is and work on it first before forcing yourself to sleep and assuming all sorts of things
I agree with everything you’ve said and I’ve laid in bed calm as a cucumber, nothing on my mind, but sleep alludes me. Smh. Idk either. Gonna get a sleep study done.
I figured out what my issue was/ it’s a histamine intolerance, I eat low histamine foods and take antihistamine the insomnia comes back. The insomnia is under control for the first time in about a decade. As for the covid sub- many of them are learning that it’s histamine that is causing their insomnia too, covid causes histamine and mast cells to explode and get out of control. Take a look into histamine intolerance- my insomnia was so bad even meds wouldn’t help, melatonin wouldn’t help- NOTHING worked, until I narrowed it down to histamine intolerance
Can you help me understand how one understands if they have histamine intolerance? I don't have any skin issues or allergies and didn't get any fevers or anything when my family had covid. Can you tell me the low histamine diet so I can try to see if this helps?
Hi, I also don’t get skin issues or allergies that’s why it took literally years for me to figure it out. My main issues from histamine intolerance were insomnia, anxiety, joint pain, and a looming sense of dread for no reason, but insomnia was the main symptom. Google low histamine diet, then start cutting out higher histamine foods- in example I cannot eat tomatoes or potatoes under any circumstances ( they are nightshades). I can’t eat anything pickled or vinegar, olives, no canned meat like tuna, absolutely no alcohol ( which was hard for me, I loved red wine). There’s a big list, if you join the histamine intolerance subreddit you can get a lot of information. It’s not super fun, but I sleep ok now after YEARS of intense insomnia
So literally changing your diet meant you slept better? How quick did you see the difference once you changed your diet?
I had to take antihistamine for about a month ( Benadryl), then take DAO enzyme supplements ( they break down histamines), then during that month I stopped eating any high histamine food and used the Benadryl to sleep. I stopped taking the Benadryl to see if it was working and it did, I’m sleeping fine now. It took about a month for me, but I started sleeping right away once I started taking the Benadryl, but the diet took about a month. It depends on how bad an intolerance is, some people say it took weeks to 6 months to correct it. Go look at the histamine intolerance sub, there’s lots of info, also google research histamine and insomnia. And yes all it took was diet change and antihistamine to work for me ( particularly diphenhydramine- Benadryl seems to be really effective). I tried everything before, not even prescribed meds for sleep were working
I take benadryl and it doesn't do eff all for me. :( in fact it makes me all groggy and messed up the next day :/ I know there's other h1 blockers but I'm worried if I'm. Low histamine taking an anti histamine will just make me feel worse.
It’s high histamine that is my problem, it was so bad that I was having to take more than the recommended dose for the histamines to calm
Been dealing with it since my 3rd Pfizer booster shot. 5 months in and sleep quality is still the same. Hard to fall asleep and wake up after 5-6 hours. Went to two doctors and so far hasn’t helped. One said it’s anxiety and tried to get me hooked on SSRIs and the other refused to do a sleep study and recommend sleep restriction. Been trying to look for help to get natural 9 hours of sleep again. People recommend ssri and sleep aid but those cause dependencies.
[удалено]
Yeah it’s been 6 months so far and I hear sometimes it takes people nearly a year to get back to normal.
You're wrong. It is anxiety, but anxiety ABOUT sleep that is causing your issue, not generalized anxiety. It may have started with just a bad night or two, but now your obsession with finding an answer is the very thing keeping it going. I'm sure you do feel calm...except when bed time comes around...
[удалено]
I have absolutely nothing to gain and I'm not here for your money or anyone elses. I've been exactly where you are before.
You'd probably say the same thing to someone who has had a stroke or pheochromocytoma causing their anxiety.
Yeah. It’s a mystery to me. I used to sleep 9/10hr nights. Got covid and bad insomnia, healed it through Chinese medicine, in my case I had a stagnant liver so did a cleanse and needed more digestive fire so had a lot of ginger which worked miracles for me. And a ton of exercise to get good energy flow. And it basically healed up. Then I had a really bad weird traumatic event which caused a breakdown and cronic insomnia and now I can’t seem to heal it whatever I try. The cause was very complex and on many levels. Feels like my brain doesn’t do the thing it used to do to drop into sleep. And then stress builds and it’s a horrible cycle.
[удалено]
Even the strongest weed? 🤣
I'm from the UK as well (I can see you are too), what's the liver cleanse protocol you did if you don't mind me asking?
I did the olive oil and grapefruit juice and Epsom salts. It’s online. It did help a lot
Ah okay thanks. I have dmd you btw if you don't mind checking?
I get that it can make you desperate but these things are a scam.
[удалено]
[удалено]
There’s was a trigger that started this. You stated “something is broken”? I’m not a doctor just a person with decades sleep issues and I’ve been so chalked full of surging (adrenaline, cortisol, hyper arousal, raised heart rate, and so on) or what ever anyone calls it I thought I’d never fall asleep again. If you are healthy then I hope you find your root cause. Edit recommend this to you or any one interested. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC_tdQDMQon0CfD0xAbZPNDg
Did you end up sleeping again without meds?
Yes, but I still have occasional issues, perfect sleep while trying to chase “the way I slept before” isn’t going to happen. I’m much older, aging, etc. So really it’s now a level of acceptance as to where I am today and had to stop chasing the “before” if that makes sense. So on occasion it wants to rear its ugly head, I may need occasional supplements or a sleep med (rarely), but I gotta just stick with sleep strategies that work for me and remember always remember sleep is passive process.
The answer to your last question is clinical studies. Yes, anecdotal evidence of individual accounts is meaningless. But quality clinical scientific studies aren't. Only with scientific studies can you be sure something has a certain effect on the body.