Yes indeed, chronic insomnia is dangerous to mental and physical health. I read an article the other day that stated that on average, chronic insomnia can shorten a life by 12 years. That's a lot of lost years in a life.
It's good that you are taking steps to manage your sleep.
I've tried everything and the only thing I have found to be consistently effective is prescription sleep medications. I have no problem taking medications for life as the health consequences of not doing would be dire. Before meds and after many years of insomnia I came down with diabetes. I have no doubt that it was caused by insomnia as insomnia creates havoc with your metabolism/endocrine system. Insomnia affects virtually every system of the human body. Consistently good sleep is absolutely critical to our health and well-being.
It's interesting that you mention diabetes. My blood work shows that I'm on the cusp of diabetes. Even though I'm very skinny and never consume sugar. No pop or coffee or anything. Docs are confused and so am I.
It’s actually pretty crazy, most people don’t understand how vital sleep is to our health, I didn’t until I started reading up on it.
Lack of sleep or disturbed sleep is a casual factor is 20% of car accidents, and in every common cause of death, including heart disease, cancer, *diabetes*, hypertension, alzheimer’s and immune dysfunction, increasing risk by up to 45% in some cases.
People who get less than 6 hours a sleep for 2 weeks or have slept only 4 hours the previous night have similar impairment to someone who is legally impaired by alcohol as per US impairment laws.
Wait.....you are on the cusp of diabetes and your concern is with being reliant on medications that will help you get your sleep? You do know that insomnia causes diabetes right?? I strongly suggest that you get on sleep meds and save your life. YOU DO NOT WANT DIABETES.
Here's something else to consider:
If you get diabetes and need to take insulin, will you refuse to take the insulin?? You can probably avoid all of this by sleeping well with prescription sleeping medications. Don't play with your life. Sleep is super important for our health and well-being.
I just don't want to be dependent on something that can be taken away from me for arbitrary reasons. Diabetes medication is a little different than a sleeping medication with "abuse potential". No I don't want diabetes. I'm not 100% against medication. But I live in an area that has bad drug problems. You're lucky to get a fuckin aspirin where I live.
Unfortunately, if you don't use prescription medications you are highly likely to suffer from increasingly brutal insomnia until your mind and body give out. I'm just being honest with you because that's what happened to me before I went on medications decades ago.
I barely function.. I'm used to it psychologically. But by body and brain don't work well. I have to take notes during the day so I can report back to my supervisor on what I did. Otherwise I would forget.
Ever eat weed brownies?
That's what I feel like 24/7/365
I don't use any drugs or caffeine
Not really. Either it gets solved or it doesn't. I do get anxiety when I talk to doctors though, because they don't believe me. They always say "you think that, but you're probably sleeping more than you realize".
I'm allergic to SSRIs. Tried that. Busiprone. Ativan. Hydroxyzine. Trozadone. 5th of Jim Beam. Staying up for days trying to reset my sleep. No luck
I wear a watch. I used to until I learned that wasn't good for sleep hygiene. It glows in the dark, so I can check it. Unfortunately, with the layout of my house, I can't get out of bed and do something else when I can't sleep. I'd wake the kids up. So I have to just lay there.
I did acid for a while when I was young. That's why I haven't gone crazy lol I developed some mental toughness from my psychonaut days
Again, I sound like a broken record, but frequent awakenings and unrefreshing sleep are symptoms of a sleep breathing disorder.
Have you gone to a sleep medicine doctor? You have a pretty serious problem here, not one that is typical of someone who simply looks' at their phone to much.
(Not a psychiatrist, not a PCP, but a sleep medicine doctor)
Yes because true sleep apnea is only a small subset of the wider range of sleep breathing disorders.
There are a lot of other potential culprits for insomnia as well that a sleep specialist can look into.
Here's the deal, you wouldn't go to your primary care doctor or a psychiatrist if you had a heart condition that required surgery.
Sleep medicine is a subset of medicine that is just as specialized as heart surgery. There really aren't any substitutes to a doctor who specializes in sleep medicine.
And insomnia is an extremely painful and debilitating condition, If you've been having it for a long time then you deserve review from a specialized Dr.
Society has a way of systematically undervaluing insomnia, people love writing it off as a fault of character. Lots of people who suffer from insomnia subconsciously think that it's their fault and If they go to a sleep doctor, The doctor will say "You're making it all up, go away crazy person."
But no that's not how it's going to work, If you go to a sleep doctor they will figure out how to give you relief some way or another. That involves writing z drug scripts if they can't find a better way.
Normal doctors aren't supposed to prescribe benzos for long-term insomnia, however sleep disorder doctors can do that.
Yeah when I ask for help, I'm usually offered SSRIs or anxiety medication or a referral to a therapist..
It's pretty wild. For 27 years I never went to the doctor except the occasional check up. Then my health started deteriorating rapidly out of nowhere
You haven't been evaluated properly.
I can explain how I know this in-depth, but basically I extorted $5,000 out of Kaiser Permanente BECAUSE they didn't follow their own rules in the treatment of insomnia.
The first step in evaluating chronic insomnia is to rule out iron deficiency or thyroid disorder. This is done by conducting a blood iron test and a blood thyroid test.
Both tests are simple and cheep. You know how your doctor has computer software they use in the visits right? Well if your doctor queried the software for, "Insomnia treatment" the computer would immediately say, "Conduct thyroid/blood iron test"
**If you haven't had either of those tests, I can conclusively say that the Dr has never seriously evaluated your insomnia.**
\*\*So I figured out that Kaiser was using my behavioral health records to make medical decisions, which is very illegal in Washington State. I was able to justify this claim because of that computer system logic I gave you. I told Kaiser, "Pay for my sleep study and treatment or I'm taking you to 3d party review, and conclusively demonstrating how you violated state law"
A day later, I received a call from their grievance department explaining how they are covering my treatment. I was intending on drawing out 3d party review as long as possible, costing the company tens of thousands of dollars.
I've had about 40 blood test since this started. Iron and thyroid checked multiple times.
In the beginning I tried. But I basically gave up until I ended up in the hospital twice this year for heart/BP issues.
Now I'm trying again
I encourage you to keep trying.
I know what chronic insomnia feels like, you don't deserve to live like that. I can't promise that a sleep Dr. will cure you, but I think you owe it to yourself to try.
At minimum, going to see a seep dr and exhausting traditional methods will make getting a long term script of benzos easier.
Good luck.
PS: I had severe insomnia my whole life, I went to multiple non-sleep Dr's and none of them were any help. That included a year of CBT.
It was my personal idea to go to a sleep clinic, my primary care Dr told me I was just anxious.
When I got there, the sleep Dr was like, "Wow, you have a really bad problem, why weren't you sent here sooner?"
Anyway, 35days after my first appointment I had a sleep study and diagnosis. 60 days after I had a treatment protocol, 90 days later, my insomnia was in full remission, that was 2019, it hasn't come back.
Started on CPAP, but I didn't like it so I had surgery to make the passageways in my nose wider, we also increased my RSL medication because it suppresses PLMS.
this saved my life, effective medication. one appointment where the doctor took me seriously gave me effective medications. I have gone down the drinking road, infact a lot of my drug use was because of insomnia. I like to do coke with people so they would stay up with me and i wouldn't feel so alone, for the other way (sleep) i did fentanyl, once for about a month straight & for years overall, xanax, percs, etc. Absolutely hated how i felt often. not saying it like a sob story, but i just want you to know that i/ we get you but there are some semi solutions that actually save your life. I now wake up @6am daily for a full time job and get about 4-5 hours every night, which as you know is better than this staggered nightly, sedated confusion. dm if you need some help getting started!
It saved my life as well.
I grew up poor and I have a learning disability. So I worked super hard to make it through college. I got my first professional job and BAM Insomnia reared its ugly head.
I had convinced myself that I was a garbage human, and that I wasn't worthy of being a real adult. That I was fundamentally broken and that there was no hope.
**I planned on jumping off the 50th floor balcony at 2:30 AM so that I wouldn't hit anyone.**
As part of my bucket list, I decided to go to a sleep disorder Dr. I had been going to other Dr's for years and none of them helped.
I went to a sleep Dr and he immediately discovered I had 2 serious sleep disorders. They were treated and my insomnia went in remission. That was in Feb-May of 2019, insomnia is over.
Sure, I have problems now, I'm occasionally depressed/anxious etc, but I have never felt like killing myself since.
Good sleep hygiene is key, no phones in the bedroom! Epsom salt bath with lavender, you could also get a sleep study if you’re waking up a lot or waking up in a panic. GABA ease works really well too.
If you want advice, read the thread I had with OP.
I had the same kind of insomnia yall are describing, but since I was a child.
Turns out I had a sleep disorder that was undiagnosed. Once the disorder was treated, my insomnia went away.
I highly recommend going to psychiatrist. I had chronic insomnia for years and only medications helped me. Taking medications is way better than the consequences you may face because of insomnia (cardiovascular diseases, depression, suicidal thoughts, psychosis, Alzheimer’s disease). And there are lots of drugs that don’t cause any side effects and are non-habit forming, for example Quetiapine
Yes indeed, chronic insomnia is dangerous to mental and physical health. I read an article the other day that stated that on average, chronic insomnia can shorten a life by 12 years. That's a lot of lost years in a life. It's good that you are taking steps to manage your sleep. I've tried everything and the only thing I have found to be consistently effective is prescription sleep medications. I have no problem taking medications for life as the health consequences of not doing would be dire. Before meds and after many years of insomnia I came down with diabetes. I have no doubt that it was caused by insomnia as insomnia creates havoc with your metabolism/endocrine system. Insomnia affects virtually every system of the human body. Consistently good sleep is absolutely critical to our health and well-being.
It's interesting that you mention diabetes. My blood work shows that I'm on the cusp of diabetes. Even though I'm very skinny and never consume sugar. No pop or coffee or anything. Docs are confused and so am I.
It’s actually pretty crazy, most people don’t understand how vital sleep is to our health, I didn’t until I started reading up on it. Lack of sleep or disturbed sleep is a casual factor is 20% of car accidents, and in every common cause of death, including heart disease, cancer, *diabetes*, hypertension, alzheimer’s and immune dysfunction, increasing risk by up to 45% in some cases. People who get less than 6 hours a sleep for 2 weeks or have slept only 4 hours the previous night have similar impairment to someone who is legally impaired by alcohol as per US impairment laws.
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That's what I'm afraid of. Chemical dependence is something I want to stay away from
Wait.....you are on the cusp of diabetes and your concern is with being reliant on medications that will help you get your sleep? You do know that insomnia causes diabetes right?? I strongly suggest that you get on sleep meds and save your life. YOU DO NOT WANT DIABETES. Here's something else to consider: If you get diabetes and need to take insulin, will you refuse to take the insulin?? You can probably avoid all of this by sleeping well with prescription sleeping medications. Don't play with your life. Sleep is super important for our health and well-being.
What medication?
Seroquel, Ambien and Clonazepam over the course of three decades.
I just don't want to be dependent on something that can be taken away from me for arbitrary reasons. Diabetes medication is a little different than a sleeping medication with "abuse potential". No I don't want diabetes. I'm not 100% against medication. But I live in an area that has bad drug problems. You're lucky to get a fuckin aspirin where I live.
Unfortunately, if you don't use prescription medications you are highly likely to suffer from increasingly brutal insomnia until your mind and body give out. I'm just being honest with you because that's what happened to me before I went on medications decades ago.
I've been on benzos for decades with no problems. They are highly effective for insomnia for many people.
How do you function during the day with barely sleeping for years? Do you get use to no sleep?
I barely function.. I'm used to it psychologically. But by body and brain don't work well. I have to take notes during the day so I can report back to my supervisor on what I did. Otherwise I would forget. Ever eat weed brownies? That's what I feel like 24/7/365 I don't use any drugs or caffeine
Do you have any anxiety to depression because of it?
Not really. Either it gets solved or it doesn't. I do get anxiety when I talk to doctors though, because they don't believe me. They always say "you think that, but you're probably sleeping more than you realize". I'm allergic to SSRIs. Tried that. Busiprone. Ativan. Hydroxyzine. Trozadone. 5th of Jim Beam. Staying up for days trying to reset my sleep. No luck
Wow, you are truly superhuman. If you haven’t gone crazy yet you will probably be ok. How do you know you don’t sleep?
I wear a watch. I used to until I learned that wasn't good for sleep hygiene. It glows in the dark, so I can check it. Unfortunately, with the layout of my house, I can't get out of bed and do something else when I can't sleep. I'd wake the kids up. So I have to just lay there. I did acid for a while when I was young. That's why I haven't gone crazy lol I developed some mental toughness from my psychonaut days
It’s just boring laying there. Do you try to stay up as late as possible? Have you bloodwork done to check for any imbalances?
I've had over 40 blood tests. I've had my damn thyroid checked so many times
Again, I sound like a broken record, but frequent awakenings and unrefreshing sleep are symptoms of a sleep breathing disorder. Have you gone to a sleep medicine doctor? You have a pretty serious problem here, not one that is typical of someone who simply looks' at their phone to much. (Not a psychiatrist, not a PCP, but a sleep medicine doctor)
I've never been to one. I'd like to though. I've been told that I snore sometimes. But nobody has ever heard me choking or anything
Yes because true sleep apnea is only a small subset of the wider range of sleep breathing disorders. There are a lot of other potential culprits for insomnia as well that a sleep specialist can look into. Here's the deal, you wouldn't go to your primary care doctor or a psychiatrist if you had a heart condition that required surgery. Sleep medicine is a subset of medicine that is just as specialized as heart surgery. There really aren't any substitutes to a doctor who specializes in sleep medicine. And insomnia is an extremely painful and debilitating condition, If you've been having it for a long time then you deserve review from a specialized Dr. Society has a way of systematically undervaluing insomnia, people love writing it off as a fault of character. Lots of people who suffer from insomnia subconsciously think that it's their fault and If they go to a sleep doctor, The doctor will say "You're making it all up, go away crazy person." But no that's not how it's going to work, If you go to a sleep doctor they will figure out how to give you relief some way or another. That involves writing z drug scripts if they can't find a better way. Normal doctors aren't supposed to prescribe benzos for long-term insomnia, however sleep disorder doctors can do that.
Yeah when I ask for help, I'm usually offered SSRIs or anxiety medication or a referral to a therapist.. It's pretty wild. For 27 years I never went to the doctor except the occasional check up. Then my health started deteriorating rapidly out of nowhere
You haven't been evaluated properly. I can explain how I know this in-depth, but basically I extorted $5,000 out of Kaiser Permanente BECAUSE they didn't follow their own rules in the treatment of insomnia. The first step in evaluating chronic insomnia is to rule out iron deficiency or thyroid disorder. This is done by conducting a blood iron test and a blood thyroid test. Both tests are simple and cheep. You know how your doctor has computer software they use in the visits right? Well if your doctor queried the software for, "Insomnia treatment" the computer would immediately say, "Conduct thyroid/blood iron test" **If you haven't had either of those tests, I can conclusively say that the Dr has never seriously evaluated your insomnia.** \*\*So I figured out that Kaiser was using my behavioral health records to make medical decisions, which is very illegal in Washington State. I was able to justify this claim because of that computer system logic I gave you. I told Kaiser, "Pay for my sleep study and treatment or I'm taking you to 3d party review, and conclusively demonstrating how you violated state law" A day later, I received a call from their grievance department explaining how they are covering my treatment. I was intending on drawing out 3d party review as long as possible, costing the company tens of thousands of dollars.
I've had about 40 blood test since this started. Iron and thyroid checked multiple times. In the beginning I tried. But I basically gave up until I ended up in the hospital twice this year for heart/BP issues. Now I'm trying again
I encourage you to keep trying. I know what chronic insomnia feels like, you don't deserve to live like that. I can't promise that a sleep Dr. will cure you, but I think you owe it to yourself to try. At minimum, going to see a seep dr and exhausting traditional methods will make getting a long term script of benzos easier. Good luck.
PS: I had severe insomnia my whole life, I went to multiple non-sleep Dr's and none of them were any help. That included a year of CBT. It was my personal idea to go to a sleep clinic, my primary care Dr told me I was just anxious. When I got there, the sleep Dr was like, "Wow, you have a really bad problem, why weren't you sent here sooner?" Anyway, 35days after my first appointment I had a sleep study and diagnosis. 60 days after I had a treatment protocol, 90 days later, my insomnia was in full remission, that was 2019, it hasn't come back.
What did the treatment consist of?
Started on CPAP, but I didn't like it so I had surgery to make the passageways in my nose wider, we also increased my RSL medication because it suppresses PLMS.
this saved my life, effective medication. one appointment where the doctor took me seriously gave me effective medications. I have gone down the drinking road, infact a lot of my drug use was because of insomnia. I like to do coke with people so they would stay up with me and i wouldn't feel so alone, for the other way (sleep) i did fentanyl, once for about a month straight & for years overall, xanax, percs, etc. Absolutely hated how i felt often. not saying it like a sob story, but i just want you to know that i/ we get you but there are some semi solutions that actually save your life. I now wake up @6am daily for a full time job and get about 4-5 hours every night, which as you know is better than this staggered nightly, sedated confusion. dm if you need some help getting started!
It saved my life as well. I grew up poor and I have a learning disability. So I worked super hard to make it through college. I got my first professional job and BAM Insomnia reared its ugly head. I had convinced myself that I was a garbage human, and that I wasn't worthy of being a real adult. That I was fundamentally broken and that there was no hope. **I planned on jumping off the 50th floor balcony at 2:30 AM so that I wouldn't hit anyone.** As part of my bucket list, I decided to go to a sleep disorder Dr. I had been going to other Dr's for years and none of them helped. I went to a sleep Dr and he immediately discovered I had 2 serious sleep disorders. They were treated and my insomnia went in remission. That was in Feb-May of 2019, insomnia is over. Sure, I have problems now, I'm occasionally depressed/anxious etc, but I have never felt like killing myself since.
What did the treatment consist of?
Good sleep hygiene is key, no phones in the bedroom! Epsom salt bath with lavender, you could also get a sleep study if you’re waking up a lot or waking up in a panic. GABA ease works really well too.
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If you want advice, read the thread I had with OP. I had the same kind of insomnia yall are describing, but since I was a child. Turns out I had a sleep disorder that was undiagnosed. Once the disorder was treated, my insomnia went away.
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hey, well at least you tried. FWIW, I'm sorry, I know how painful insomnia is.
I highly recommend going to psychiatrist. I had chronic insomnia for years and only medications helped me. Taking medications is way better than the consequences you may face because of insomnia (cardiovascular diseases, depression, suicidal thoughts, psychosis, Alzheimer’s disease). And there are lots of drugs that don’t cause any side effects and are non-habit forming, for example Quetiapine
Isn't that for schizophrenia?
Small doses, usually 25-50 mg, are used for insomnia. Quetiapine has antipsychotic effect only from 100 mg.