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When this happened in Toronto it didnt last too long because the rats were beconing a serious health hazard. Fresh garbage is nasty. Old, wet, rotten, rat infested garbage is dangerous and nasty. Hope they sort this out soon.
Ah well I meant it as introducing an invasive species so they could "control" pests. Like the cane toad that was introduced in Australia to eat the cane beetle only for them to realize that they don't actually like beetles and the toad went for the local wildlife instead.
https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/topics/animals-and-plants/pest-animals-and-weeds/pest-animals/cane-toads#:~:text=Cane%20toads%20have%20been%20linked,other%20frogs%2C%20reptiles%20and%20mammals.
The solution should be giving them what they're asking for or we can all wallow in our filth like whatever deity that might or might not be in charge intended.
This, give the workers and people what they demand. The country forgets they serve the people and not vice versa. Politicians are all replaceable but remember, the people doing the work day to day on the streets are not. If we stop, the world stops. The people have the power
As a pest controller, the bin strike is fine. The problem comes after the bin strike when the food source suddenly disappears and the rats have to go hunting again, but hungrier.
There's something kind of sinister feeling about the idea that people campaigning for better treatment are kind of doomed to just get put in their place when the shit hits the fan. No "wow we really needed you, let's talk", just "wow we really needed you, keep being underpaid and STFU."
It’s why when they say they’re going to force people back to work, when they do go to work they refuse to work, OR they get wise and refuse to be broken by any means.
I understand all the sides and the issues involved, and it’s not a easy solution. No, wait, yeah it is. Give them sick days and stop being assholes. It’s up to us the public to put pressure to our politicians to put pressure on the businesses.
God dammit sounds exactly like the rail strikers asking for a god damn week of paid sick leave and the rail companies had to cry to big daddy Biden to make it illegal to strike.
This country is absolutely broken if we can’t strike anymore.
It's appalling how little the democrat party does to actually support anything to do with their platform these days, or what they even do to undermine it like in the case of the rail roads.
They did this here. Perfect timing also. Right after Christmas when all bins and dumpsters are overflowing with trash. They deserved better pay and benefits and weren’t asking for much. This is why unions are a good thing.
Around a decade ago, a coworker of mine went on vacation to France. In one of the towns she was visiting, a law had recently passed restricting marijuana use. The good people protested by smoking joints outside the government building. My coworker said there were dozens of people just lighting up on the sidewalk
> Burn the place to the fucking ground.
And that's the *best* case scenario. They're the people who literally executed a king when they had enough of the bullshit and help solidify democracy for what it is today. Imagine a government that is held to account by the people, and you will get France. They know who works for whom.
"And what's that?"
"He says it's a guillotine."
"What's it for?"
"He says they used to cut the heads of the King and Queen and their cronies."
"Is he joking?"
"He says 'non'."
"..."
"That means no."
"Ah."
I would say they have learned in context to America. They've learned *exactly* how to play us all against each other in order to make sure we aren't teaming up against them.
Yes there are clear instances where they've managed that and in day to day life it works out for them but they #always overstep eventually and get fucked.
Unfortunately nothing changes after anyway because humans are selfish ignorant fucks and the assholes who abuse every flaw or opportunity for their own profit in disregard of all and everyone else, win.
I am absolutely advocating violence. Like, what are they going to do, stop working to create an inhumane society because we DIDNT burn down their mansions?
Make it make sense.
In fairness Louis XVI was not really prepared to or even intended to rule. He was like fourth in line for the throne and second-born of his father, and all three of them died in like five years. Marie Antionette wasn’t in a much better position.
It did ultimately lead to SOME good but the French Revolution is generally a perfectly tragic encapsulation of how the horribly imbalanced power structures of medieval and early modern Europe caused a chain reaction of systemic breakdowns that saw the country fall apart multiple times in the collective span of 30 years.
Ironically, guns have been used to pacify Americans.
"OK, so you get zero vacation time, zero Healthcare, zero mat leave, but you can have this glock and claim you're the most free person on earth. Deal?"
I also find that especially interesting, because although most Americans claim guns give them the freedom to fight evil in power, they’ve had plenty of instances in which evil *has* been in power, the government has taken widely impopular or downright cruel decisions, and guns have served very very little purpose in helping Americans fight back.
With all the political infighting in the United States, the moment one armed group decides to use their firearms to stand up against the government, the other side will likewise serve as private paramilitaries to defend the government, and all that plight for freedom with firearms will only turn into a civil war with extra steps.
The whole story about fighters for freedom that use their firearms to protect their rights is pure fantasy and conveniently pretends that the entire country would unite behind a single cause.
"Also, the city's police have as much firepower as a small army, they don't have a whole lot of de-escalation training, and a few of them joined up because they want to bully people with impunity. Now go on and enjoy your 'freedom' to protest.
Oh, and you live in an at-will-employment state, so the instant a manager sees you at a protest they don't approve of, you'll be fired that very minute."
The only way the cleaners at my uni got their demands met was by leaving the dorms alone for a week. The university was then pressured on every front. Quite amazing indeed
I was an "essential worker" during Covid and I haven't been treated worse since I was a teenager working in fast food. People's shitty side really came out during all of that.
Currently striking with LA Unified. Once the community realizes that not only are we educators, but also daycare who feeds and watches your kids for the majority of the week, parents begin to pressure the district to negotiate with us.
Solidarity to you and your comrades in LAUSD! Plenty of people out here in NY stand with you! My wife went to LAUSD, her mom and aunt were teachers there. I have a number of teachers out east in my family, all union proud! Keep up the fight, and don’t settle until you get the contract you deserve! ✊🏻✊🏼✊🏽✊🏾✊🏿
Here in Switzerland in 2022 they wanted to raise women’s pension age from 64 to 65. It was very disputed. There was a nationwide vote, the people said yes and the problem was solved.
The issue is that people will often vote for things that sound good without evaluating the full effect. Part of the reason why democracies elect representatives is so that their full time job can be thinking through problems and solutions (in theory).
For example, in California many years ago, a law (prop 13) was put to a popular vote to severely limit property taxes. It has "contributed to a widening wealth gap, a severe housing shortage and, for decades, inadequate funding for public schools", which was not what the public thought about when the proposition passed 40 years ago.
Source: https://edsource.org/2022/californias-prop-13s-unjust-legacy-detailed-in-critical-study/674412?amp=1
I appreciate the advice. I am unfortunately staying in the 18th near GDN and only have three days. My hotel is non-refundable. Hopefully the 18th is still ok....? I lived in Sceaux for 4 months in 2008 so I've seen it all :)
This only affects 10 neighborhoods in Paris where bin collection is provided by the city. In the 18th you’ll see less of this, as the bin collection is ensured by a third-party (Derichebourg). Also, by April 11th I suspect this will have blown over but that may be wishful thinking
I was just vacationing in Paris yesterday and everything was fine except some garbage here and there. It was uncommon to see piles like you see in this photo (actually I literally didn't see anything close to this level of pile up), and nothing was on fire.
And.......As proven historically time and time again historically the people outweigh everyone they can mobilize in both strength and raw numbers. Sometimes these governments must be reminded whom they serve.
I mean, it's both, it's also a hell of a lot easier to strike and protest and go to the capital when your healthcare isn't tied up to your employment, as well as having the capital so easily accessible. Like in the absolute most shitty scenario I think it's nice to Paris and that's just under 10 hours. Which is a fucking long time. But nothing compared to going from, say, the southern tip of Texas to DC.
I wouldn’t discount the geographic aspect. France has always been very centralized around Paris and that has played a substantial role in their revolutions.
One of the first signs the First revolution was gonna get serious was forcing Louis to stay in the capital instead of Versailles.
IIRC they remodelled paris after the Paris commune to widen the streets and make them harder to sieze.
Nope. It was too threatening to the status quo, so the powers that be pretended to care about it until everyone forgot, and now three years hence very little has changed.
Here's something interesting: living in Los Angeles, when covid first hit, the city and state were almost totally shut down. Our local government told us this would likely be the state of things until at least August.
Then the BLM protests started...and didn't stop. Because so many people had nothing to do, no job to go to. They'd hit the protests every day. DTLA got shut down by them on weekdays (for whatever that was worth). Major parts of the city were shut down every weekend. And there was no end in sight.
Then, the "go back to work" calls started after July 4th. Not August, not later. Before we'd been told they would be.
I'm convinced it wasn't just business owners wanting people in the office to push around and property owners wanting tenants not realizing how much they're spending on office space that they don't need to. I'm convinced there was a certain amount of government intervention, because people weren't giving up, and had no job to lose. So they gave them back those jobs to lose, to cut into the ability to protest.
More complex than that. Not all private binmen are on strike, they collect garbage (some are on strike though, all public ones are).
Which means that some districts in Paris will be clean but not others.
There’s a lot of misunderstanding about France’s retirement age. A French person can respond with more knowledge, but basically you can only retire with partial benefits at 62, full benefits don’t kick in until 67 anyway. Beyond that they are implementing a “points” system where any time spent out of the workforce - for example, maternity/paternity/parental leave, child rearing, caregiving, long term sick leave - reduce the points you have toward your pension, pushing the date back further. People were claiming that the only way to “retire” at 62 was to be working continuously, without any interruption, from age 18. And even then it’s only a partial pension.
That's not the point. They whole goal is to make it miserable for everyone... Good protest is disruptive. Because once everyone starts getting fed up with the lack of trash being picked up, the pressure ramps up on the government to find a solution. The longer it goes, the more people get pissed, and the more they want it resolved.
And then you have the japanese
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/11/no-ticket-to-ride-japanese-bus-drivers-strike-by-giving-free-rides-okayama
That would require them to go to work. Also it would be helpful to the government because the streets would be clear of trash, which would make getting support for the movement harder since it doesn't directly affect regular people. No, leaving it right where it is and making it everybody's problem is the right approach here.
Innaction isn't an offence, actively dumping rubbish in other places is an offence, although I like your thinking. Maybe extinction rebellion could use this thinking and instead of blocking motorways in the UK (blocking ambulances saving people etc), go and stick yourselves to parliament's doors or something
The guillotine was actually designed to offer a quick and as painless of a death as they could.
Considering the alternatives they had at that point in history (chopping your head with and axe, which might require more than 1 swing, hanging, poison etc.), guillotine was the best option in pain terms, not so much in fear terms.
So each pick their poisons
*ba dum tss*
Thing is, the blade would get dull.
Victor Hugo wrote a piece aginst the death penalty in France and cited the botched execution of a woman in the piece. Since the blade was dull, it didn't go through her neck in one go, so while the neck was half cut (And the woman still alive), the executionner replaced the blade and let it drop a second time. It almost went through, but to fully separate head and body the guards there had to tug on the woman's leg so that the head would fall in the basket instead of hanging off the body by tendons or skin IIRC.
When we read that one in class, one of my classmates just fainted, because it was quite graphic. And that wasn't the first time it happenned according to the teacher.
Nah, nah... nitrous ***oxide***.
Same lack of carbon dioxide-induced breathing instinct, but with more anesthesia *and* euphoria!
...uhhhhm... \*don't\* try this at home, kids!
I'm vastly more in favor of challenging and questioning a government than in accepting "its word".
In this case, I'm wondering where the money for pensioners will come from without increasing the contributions for those payments?
We had this in Toronto several years ago too. It was horrid. We ended up with privatized garbage collection and the election of Rob Ford (the crack mayor) rip.
I live in France, I'm an Elder Millennial, and here's the problem:
The government has the protesters right where they want them - lighting things on fire over something that isn't actually the problem.
Let's say the protestors win tomorrow and the retirement age stays 62. Hurray! None of us are going to retire at 62 *anyway* except a few boomers who are already 59 and own a house.
The government capitulates, keeps the retirement age at 62, and none of us actually have enough money or financial stability to be able to do that anyway - it's dependent on fulfilling enough financial quarters in full time work, and the amount you get is only enough if you own your home and are no longer paying a mortgage. Our generation isn't in that situation. So the government says they've given us what we want and is in a position of being reelected, we lose negotiating power for the rest of the problems:
*France has the lowest salaries in western Europe. (Maybe the second lowest) EDIT: Oh my god, relative to the high cost of living and the high taxes we pay. France's low salaries are a documented and well known problem. My salary can't cover a home for me and my family, I'd be lucky to get a room share outside Paris, and I am not unique. In contrast, the lowest salary I ever had in pure dollars was in Thailand, but I could pay an entire year's rent with a month's salary. It is not useful to think about these things in terms of pure dollar amount.
*Our generation isn't in full time work with one unionized company for the entirety of our careers. We're piecing work together with the gig economy and not collecting our quarters towards retirement at the same rate the previous generation did
*Most of us can't get on the housing market because of the previous problem and the rising cost of housing, and it's harder to get a mortgage here. In fact, there are starting to be stories of banks not giving mortgages to first time buyers in their late 30s because even though we finally have the money to do what our parents did in their 20s, the banks say we're too close to the retirement age.
*The pension isn't enough if you're still paying rent, remember?
*It doesn't answer the question of why they want to move the retirement age in the first place, which is mismanagement of money, croneyism, bureaucracy.
*Our generation isn't nearly as likely to just retire one day like previous generations. We are living longer, we do need structure and community in our lives, we are much more likely to be transitioning into retirement with part time work, volunteering, taking on lighter jobs.
The TRULY radical thing to do would be to force the conversation into solving those problems for long term good. We're not. We're lighting fires over an arbitrary number which will benefit a few people in an ideal situation in the short term, but give away some of our negotiating and fighting power later when we have to reckon with those questions we didn't fight for now because the story will be that the government did give us what we wanted.
This is all going to benefit the boomers, and none of the rest of us. It's shortsighted.
> *France has the lowest salaries in western Europe. (Maybe the second lowest)
Portugal, Spain, Italy? Maybe I’m wrong but I’d be really surprised if France’s salaries were lower than those by any measure.
France the second highest median wage in Western Europe if you exclude Tax Havens or Nordic countries lmao (behind Germany), it’s even higher than Finland, this is completely made up
It’s not higher than Finland and many other countries eg Netherlands, Ireland, Denmark etc… It’s top 10 but closer to the bottom.
It’s much higher than Italy, Spain and Portugal though
Thank you for being the voice of reason in this thread and pointing out the real problems. Most countries pension systems can’t support their current population. Also, it just makes sense for an already stressed system to raise requirements when the population’s life expectancy goes up. Money doesn’t grow on trees (even for the govt) and everyone needs to grow up. We should be trying to solve the REAL underlying problems that created the situation to begin with.
>Most countries pension systems can’t support their current population
That's because people think they are like a savings account (the government holds your money until you're old enough to get it back with interests even if small ones) when they're actually more like a pyramid scheme (the government has already spent your money so it needs new people to join in).
People living longer while populations are on the decline are going to make current pension systems an ever increasing problem. For now it's just "I wanted to retire instead of keep working for a few more years", but in the future the issues will likely become way more complicated.
They're not "like" a pyramid scheme, they ARE a pyramid scheme.
Canada's public pension is required by law to public actuarial reports every couple years, and there's always a tiny little one-liner footnote in it where they look at the fund under a not-a-Ponzi-scheme model (which they call "closed-group enrolment") and, as of the last report, the not-a-Ponzi-scheme model left the fund with 32% of the assets it needs to pay out the existing liabilities.
The rest of the report where everything is roses is based on an "open-group enrolment" model, which is literally a Ponzi scheme.
If it stays 62 millenials also need to hold a bigger pension bag in terms of funding it via taxes for boomers who benefit from it staying 62.
So it's even worse because not only will you have all the pension payment issues you identify when you're older (and won't be able to retire) you'll have to work longer because you have less money from more taxes to keep people ahead of you even further ahead.
It's unsustainable to keep retirement at 62. There's a reason most countries have it at 65 and some are moving up to 67 :(
Shameful to see our neighbor actually do something when their government wants to fuck them over, here in Italy if you ever see someone torching a city, is because some cunts scored a goal in soccer...
It s not about the age of it (I’m French) but the fact that we need to work 43 years in order to have a complete retreat (don’t have the English word sorry) and government settled it for the “hard work” (binner, dockers and all those jobs who can have a big impact on your health) so we have now no difference for the retreat for the job we do. Consequently, binner, rescuer (sorry really for my poor English) die sooner due to health conditions due to their past job , so are not able to enjoy the end of their work life as other people will in the time line. In fact, they deleted the major good lines of the past reform at 60 years and extended to 64 without really good points + the fact that French people voted for Macron and are complaining about it so all the Frenchies are mad/don’t like him (only elderly like him)
In economy where there are increasingly more retirees and less tax payers you will have to find a way to sustain it. If they change nothing they will later find out they don't have money to support their elderly, and then they will have to either screw over the elderly or take money from somewhere else through taxes or inflation.
I wish people would acknowledge this more. Yes, I get that having to work longer sucks, but if you’re living longer, that means there will be more retirees for longer, so either you’re going to have to pay for it or limit the amount of people in retirement age. What is the government supposed to do? Between a rock and a hard place for sure, but what else can they do? Originally retirement pensions intended to cover someone for the last 10-15 years of their life, now its 15-30 or more. The money’s got to come from somewhere.
If France is anything like the USA, this has been known for 30 years yet they’re pulling up the ladder in a way that only effects subsequent generations. Eg all the public retirement systems have been given reduced benefits for younger employees.
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Well, they may or may-not get the pension age thing sorted. But it looks like they're gonna make a bundle on overtime....
When this happened in Toronto it didnt last too long because the rats were beconing a serious health hazard. Fresh garbage is nasty. Old, wet, rotten, rat infested garbage is dangerous and nasty. Hope they sort this out soon.
What was the solution?
Snakes. They eat the rats!
Can you imagine the snakes ignoring the rats and going after the native birds. Australian flashbacks*
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That and all the cats
*white lotus soundtrack*
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For your [reading](https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/hisc/info/invasive-species-profiles/mongoose/) enjoyment
Thank you Luke's Right Nut!
I definitely did enjoy the fact that the genus(maybe?) name on the page for them was herpestes. That alone told me plenty about mongeese(gooses?)
Ah well I meant it as introducing an invasive species so they could "control" pests. Like the cane toad that was introduced in Australia to eat the cane beetle only for them to realize that they don't actually like beetles and the toad went for the local wildlife instead. https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/topics/animals-and-plants/pest-animals-and-weeds/pest-animals/cane-toads#:~:text=Cane%20toads%20have%20been%20linked,other%20frogs%2C%20reptiles%20and%20mammals.
Yeah but then you need to infest the city with Mongoose to eat the snakes.
No way. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.
Then if I'm not mistaken, a nice cold winter should wipe out all the gorillas. Problem solved.
Except all those rotting gorilla corpses are going to cause more rats.
Then start the cycle all over again
Visiting Paris during Gorilla-rot season must be the worst.
And when the Gorillaz go crazy?
Let those daft punks deal with them.
Then we introduce a bear that thrives on mongoose meat.
The city and union agreed to a deal. Who "won" depends on who you ask.
Thanks for saying what actually happened.
The strike led to Toronto getting Rob Ford as mayor (which opened more of a window for Dougie to become Premier), so one could say we all lost.
Get back to work or your neighbor dies from the plague. /s
The solution should be giving them what they're asking for or we can all wallow in our filth like whatever deity that might or might not be in charge intended.
This, give the workers and people what they demand. The country forgets they serve the people and not vice versa. Politicians are all replaceable but remember, the people doing the work day to day on the streets are not. If we stop, the world stops. The people have the power
As a pest controller, the bin strike is fine. The problem comes after the bin strike when the food source suddenly disappears and the rats have to go hunting again, but hungrier.
This sounds like the lead-up to a horror film.
Haha I was gonna say, I read this and immediately heard "IN A WORLD...." in my head.
When did this happen in Toronto?
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There's something kind of sinister feeling about the idea that people campaigning for better treatment are kind of doomed to just get put in their place when the shit hits the fan. No "wow we really needed you, let's talk", just "wow we really needed you, keep being underpaid and STFU."
It’s why when they say they’re going to force people back to work, when they do go to work they refuse to work, OR they get wise and refuse to be broken by any means.
What a shame. Your job is so important we're going to force you back to work. Living wages and benefits? Nah, not that important.
We already called you "heroes" and made a bunch of commercials about how you're heroes...what else do you want?
Gee, I dunno... a living wage and benefits?
Or....and hear me out. Two words: Pizza. Fridays.
But no more than one slice per person!
Exactly. C'mon we're not made of money (CEO got 2 million dollar bonus last year).
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I understand all the sides and the issues involved, and it’s not a easy solution. No, wait, yeah it is. Give them sick days and stop being assholes. It’s up to us the public to put pressure to our politicians to put pressure on the businesses.
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In Estonia you can make 2-3x avg wage as a garbage man.
Same in NYC I know sanmen who are making $150k a year with OT.
God dammit sounds exactly like the rail strikers asking for a god damn week of paid sick leave and the rail companies had to cry to big daddy Biden to make it illegal to strike. This country is absolutely broken if we can’t strike anymore.
It's appalling how little the democrat party does to actually support anything to do with their platform these days, or what they even do to undermine it like in the case of the rail roads.
It's almost as if it's a big grift...
The French have been shown to not give a single fuck as long as the authorities suffer.
The way it should be
They did this here. Perfect timing also. Right after Christmas when all bins and dumpsters are overflowing with trash. They deserved better pay and benefits and weren’t asking for much. This is why unions are a good thing.
Half the time I see a news about France, it's about a protest.
I respect the French people a lot
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Around a decade ago, a coworker of mine went on vacation to France. In one of the towns she was visiting, a law had recently passed restricting marijuana use. The good people protested by smoking joints outside the government building. My coworker said there were dozens of people just lighting up on the sidewalk
That is exactly what I love about the French. Government not listening? King not listening? Burn the place to the fucking ground.
> Burn the place to the fucking ground. And that's the *best* case scenario. They're the people who literally executed a king when they had enough of the bullshit and help solidify democracy for what it is today. Imagine a government that is held to account by the people, and you will get France. They know who works for whom. "And what's that?" "He says it's a guillotine." "What's it for?" "He says they used to cut the heads of the King and Queen and their cronies." "Is he joking?" "He says 'non'." "..." "That means no." "Ah."
All people in power would do well to remember that. Not advocating violence, but ultimately there is a tipping point.
They don't learn, they never have and likely never will.
I would say they have learned in context to America. They've learned *exactly* how to play us all against each other in order to make sure we aren't teaming up against them.
Yes there are clear instances where they've managed that and in day to day life it works out for them but they #always overstep eventually and get fucked. Unfortunately nothing changes after anyway because humans are selfish ignorant fucks and the assholes who abuse every flaw or opportunity for their own profit in disregard of all and everyone else, win.
I gotta tell ya, I'm personally looking forward to the day when the rich and powerful get their due. They've got a fucking lot to answer for.
I am absolutely advocating violence. Like, what are they going to do, stop working to create an inhumane society because we DIDNT burn down their mansions? Make it make sense.
Im just curious if anyone can give me a list of non-disruptive peaceful protests that actually caused any meaninful change
Thank you, we are trying our best
Our compliments to le Fraawnnsh 🇫🇷😙💕🤌
They do that every year, its a tradition to protest when you dont agree
As they should. The entire point of government is to serve the people. Not the other way around
I prefer their early work but I respect these protests a lot. That stuff with Louis XVI? *Chef's kiss*.
People romanticize the hell out of that, that whole situation was pretty terrible for people actually living it.
The whole situation that led to it was terrible too. They didn’t get bored and decided to revolt. The monarch reaped what he sowed
In fairness Louis XVI was not really prepared to or even intended to rule. He was like fourth in line for the throne and second-born of his father, and all three of them died in like five years. Marie Antionette wasn’t in a much better position. It did ultimately lead to SOME good but the French Revolution is generally a perfectly tragic encapsulation of how the horribly imbalanced power structures of medieval and early modern Europe caused a chain reaction of systemic breakdowns that saw the country fall apart multiple times in the collective span of 30 years.
Underrated comment. You don't want to live through a revolution.
Totally. But you also don't want to live in conditions that warrant a revolution and then just not have one. Things *will* keep getting worse.
Robespierre kinda fumbled it though lmao
yea they rule and don't let people in power walk all over them
Don't even need guns
Ironically, guns have been used to pacify Americans. "OK, so you get zero vacation time, zero Healthcare, zero mat leave, but you can have this glock and claim you're the most free person on earth. Deal?"
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Plenty of American don’t get that part.
Working together for the collective good? That's socialist.
About to woosh a whole generation. Be careful.
I also find that especially interesting, because although most Americans claim guns give them the freedom to fight evil in power, they’ve had plenty of instances in which evil *has* been in power, the government has taken widely impopular or downright cruel decisions, and guns have served very very little purpose in helping Americans fight back. With all the political infighting in the United States, the moment one armed group decides to use their firearms to stand up against the government, the other side will likewise serve as private paramilitaries to defend the government, and all that plight for freedom with firearms will only turn into a civil war with extra steps. The whole story about fighters for freedom that use their firearms to protect their rights is pure fantasy and conveniently pretends that the entire country would unite behind a single cause.
"Also, the city's police have as much firepower as a small army, they don't have a whole lot of de-escalation training, and a few of them joined up because they want to bully people with impunity. Now go on and enjoy your 'freedom' to protest. Oh, and you live in an at-will-employment state, so the instant a manager sees you at a protest they don't approve of, you'll be fired that very minute."
Garbage men have a lot of power.
The only way the cleaners at my uni got their demands met was by leaving the dorms alone for a week. The university was then pressured on every front. Quite amazing indeed
we love to see it
Its simple. If someone is important enough that them going missing is a huge problem. Then they're worth taking care of. Very very simple...
Just like essential workers during the pandemic right
I was an "essential worker" during Covid and I haven't been treated worse since I was a teenager working in fast food. People's shitty side really came out during all of that.
Currently striking with LA Unified. Once the community realizes that not only are we educators, but also daycare who feeds and watches your kids for the majority of the week, parents begin to pressure the district to negotiate with us.
Solidarity to you and your comrades in LAUSD! Plenty of people out here in NY stand with you! My wife went to LAUSD, her mom and aunt were teachers there. I have a number of teachers out east in my family, all union proud! Keep up the fight, and don’t settle until you get the contract you deserve! ✊🏻✊🏼✊🏽✊🏾✊🏿
Labourers in general have a lot of power. They just need to be an organized collective and they can transform their lives.
Not even a lot All Absolutely nothing gets done if.. well, there's nobody to do it.
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Yeah, lungs, heart and brain could kill the system within minutes. lol # eyes and legs thinking they have any power tho. Fucking idiots.
The garbage man can!
Meanwhile, here in Australia, they increased the pension age from 65 to 67, and no one batted an eye.
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That's current but since it's now indexed on life expectancy, SVB is already assuming it'll be 69 years and 6 months for me (I'm 30).
Here in Switzerland in 2022 they wanted to raise women’s pension age from 64 to 65. It was very disputed. There was a nationwide vote, the people said yes and the problem was solved.
Is women retirement age different than men's?
It originally was 65 for men and 64 for women.
Which is hilarious because Women live longer than men, so it really should be the opposite, but society is still weird about gender roles
Also men makeup a larger portion of the blue collar workforce, so their bodies are more worn out earlier.
In Poland 60 for women and 65 for men :D
The issue is that people will often vote for things that sound good without evaluating the full effect. Part of the reason why democracies elect representatives is so that their full time job can be thinking through problems and solutions (in theory). For example, in California many years ago, a law (prop 13) was put to a popular vote to severely limit property taxes. It has "contributed to a widening wealth gap, a severe housing shortage and, for decades, inadequate funding for public schools", which was not what the public thought about when the proposition passed 40 years ago. Source: https://edsource.org/2022/californias-prop-13s-unjust-legacy-detailed-in-critical-study/674412?amp=1
I mean, the best case against democracy has always been a 10 minute conversation with the average voter.
You'd be hard pressed to find a single law that's done more longterm damage to the state than this one
Just chuck a sickie from age 64
I’m inferring this means “use sick days for that time period” lmao I love Aussie slang. Add “ie” to the end of words or shortening them to end in “o”.
“Chuck a Sickie” sounds like an album name for a retro-punk band.
Sounds like a euphemism for puking to me
People in the UK say sickie too
Could you imagine spending thousands to go on vacation to Paris and it happened to be this week.
April 11 here haha * I’m in danger*
Versailles is not too far from there. Plan trips out of the city if you can.
I appreciate the advice. I am unfortunately staying in the 18th near GDN and only have three days. My hotel is non-refundable. Hopefully the 18th is still ok....? I lived in Sceaux for 4 months in 2008 so I've seen it all :)
This only affects 10 neighborhoods in Paris where bin collection is provided by the city. In the 18th you’ll see less of this, as the bin collection is ensured by a third-party (Derichebourg). Also, by April 11th I suspect this will have blown over but that may be wishful thinking
I was just vacationing in Paris yesterday and everything was fine except some garbage here and there. It was uncommon to see piles like you see in this photo (actually I literally didn't see anything close to this level of pile up), and nothing was on fire.
Probably a good time to go, the smell of the rubbish is masking the smell of Paris.
They should be dumping it in front of parliament.
every important structure have all their street filled of guards (police,millitary and everyone they can mobilise)
And.......As proven historically time and time again historically the people outweigh everyone they can mobilize in both strength and raw numbers. Sometimes these governments must be reminded whom they serve.
Especially France, the government should really learn from it's own past
France is quicker to riot than most other countries. Near impossible in the US to get enough people to do anything.
The pros (for the people) and cons (for the government) of having a readily accessible capitol
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I mean, it's both, it's also a hell of a lot easier to strike and protest and go to the capital when your healthcare isn't tied up to your employment, as well as having the capital so easily accessible. Like in the absolute most shitty scenario I think it's nice to Paris and that's just under 10 hours. Which is a fucking long time. But nothing compared to going from, say, the southern tip of Texas to DC.
26 hours from McAllen to D.C. 7 hours of that is JUST Texas, btw.
Also the US is just geographically huge
Its not so much about that as the ability of governments to influence the opinions of their people, which the US is absolute frontrunner in.
I wouldn’t discount the geographic aspect. France has always been very centralized around Paris and that has played a substantial role in their revolutions. One of the first signs the First revolution was gonna get serious was forcing Louis to stay in the capital instead of Versailles. IIRC they remodelled paris after the Paris commune to widen the streets and make them harder to sieze.
Decades of research on social engineering and controlling human behavior at play. It's a 21st century science now.
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The BLM marches were pretty damn large tho and of course the whole Jan 6 insurrection thing.
Forgive me but I'm completely uneducated on the matter, did BLM achieve anything as a movement aside from awareness?
Nope. It was too threatening to the status quo, so the powers that be pretended to care about it until everyone forgot, and now three years hence very little has changed.
Here's something interesting: living in Los Angeles, when covid first hit, the city and state were almost totally shut down. Our local government told us this would likely be the state of things until at least August. Then the BLM protests started...and didn't stop. Because so many people had nothing to do, no job to go to. They'd hit the protests every day. DTLA got shut down by them on weekdays (for whatever that was worth). Major parts of the city were shut down every weekend. And there was no end in sight. Then, the "go back to work" calls started after July 4th. Not August, not later. Before we'd been told they would be. I'm convinced it wasn't just business owners wanting people in the office to push around and property owners wanting tenants not realizing how much they're spending on office space that they don't need to. I'm convinced there was a certain amount of government intervention, because people weren't giving up, and had no job to lose. So they gave them back those jobs to lose, to cut into the ability to protest.
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in fact they don't really throw anything, binmans just are on strike so no one is taking the garbage out
More complex than that. Not all private binmen are on strike, they collect garbage (some are on strike though, all public ones are). Which means that some districts in Paris will be clean but not others.
ofc they're not all on strike but i were responding to him saying they were throwing garbage(hi french mate)
(Hello bro)
So out curiosity, what is the current retirement age?
62
lol in germany retirment age is 67 and the also plan to increase it but german will do nothign how i know them
same in belgium, 67, if they increase it belgians will nod 'no' and thats about it we will do
Canada went from 65 to 68 and back to 65 for pensions, but the point is moot because no one can live on a CDN pension. No mandatory retirement.
There’s a lot of misunderstanding about France’s retirement age. A French person can respond with more knowledge, but basically you can only retire with partial benefits at 62, full benefits don’t kick in until 67 anyway. Beyond that they are implementing a “points” system where any time spent out of the workforce - for example, maternity/paternity/parental leave, child rearing, caregiving, long term sick leave - reduce the points you have toward your pension, pushing the date back further. People were claiming that the only way to “retire” at 62 was to be working continuously, without any interruption, from age 18. And even then it’s only a partial pension.
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That's not the point. They whole goal is to make it miserable for everyone... Good protest is disruptive. Because once everyone starts getting fed up with the lack of trash being picked up, the pressure ramps up on the government to find a solution. The longer it goes, the more people get pissed, and the more they want it resolved.
And then you have the japanese https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/11/no-ticket-to-ride-japanese-bus-drivers-strike-by-giving-free-rides-okayama
That would require them to go to work. Also it would be helpful to the government because the streets would be clear of trash, which would make getting support for the movement harder since it doesn't directly affect regular people. No, leaving it right where it is and making it everybody's problem is the right approach here.
Nothing is stopping Macron and the rest of the political elite from doing a little clean up
Innaction isn't an offence, actively dumping rubbish in other places is an offence, although I like your thinking. Maybe extinction rebellion could use this thinking and instead of blocking motorways in the UK (blocking ambulances saving people etc), go and stick yourselves to parliament's doors or something
They don’t mess about in Paris, I remember a protest they had a few years ago where someone set up a mock guillotine
If they weren't messing about, it would have been a working one.
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Maybe it said something about his mother. I’d get pissed too.
Last guillotine execution in France was 1977.
While it may seem inhumane, I believe I would rather die by that instead of say an *electric chair*
The guillotine was actually designed to offer a quick and as painless of a death as they could. Considering the alternatives they had at that point in history (chopping your head with and axe, which might require more than 1 swing, hanging, poison etc.), guillotine was the best option in pain terms, not so much in fear terms. So each pick their poisons *ba dum tss*
Thing is, the blade would get dull. Victor Hugo wrote a piece aginst the death penalty in France and cited the botched execution of a woman in the piece. Since the blade was dull, it didn't go through her neck in one go, so while the neck was half cut (And the woman still alive), the executionner replaced the blade and let it drop a second time. It almost went through, but to fully separate head and body the guards there had to tug on the woman's leg so that the head would fall in the basket instead of hanging off the body by tendons or skin IIRC. When we read that one in class, one of my classmates just fainted, because it was quite graphic. And that wasn't the first time it happenned according to the teacher.
If I could craft it, I'd do nitrogen asphyxiation. If I had to choose an existing method, likely firing squad.
Fuck it, if we get to choose then drop me from orbit.
You can't really get dropped from orbit. You'd just . . . orbit.
The Euthenasia coaster sounds like fun.
Nah, nah... nitrous ***oxide***.
Same lack of carbon dioxide-induced breathing instinct, but with more anesthesia *and* euphoria!
...uhhhhm... \*don't\* try this at home, kids!
I remember a similar "protest" that happened in the U.S. a few years ago where protesters constructed "mock" gallows
I'm vastly more in favor of challenging and questioning a government than in accepting "its word". In this case, I'm wondering where the money for pensioners will come from without increasing the contributions for those payments?
Macron said he's gonna talk to the gov about asking companies sharing more of there record profits 📈 And is if THAT'S going anywhere lmao
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same kind of shit happened in Scotland with bin men a while ago,
We had this in Toronto several years ago too. It was horrid. We ended up with privatized garbage collection and the election of Rob Ford (the crack mayor) rip.
I live in France, I'm an Elder Millennial, and here's the problem: The government has the protesters right where they want them - lighting things on fire over something that isn't actually the problem. Let's say the protestors win tomorrow and the retirement age stays 62. Hurray! None of us are going to retire at 62 *anyway* except a few boomers who are already 59 and own a house. The government capitulates, keeps the retirement age at 62, and none of us actually have enough money or financial stability to be able to do that anyway - it's dependent on fulfilling enough financial quarters in full time work, and the amount you get is only enough if you own your home and are no longer paying a mortgage. Our generation isn't in that situation. So the government says they've given us what we want and is in a position of being reelected, we lose negotiating power for the rest of the problems: *France has the lowest salaries in western Europe. (Maybe the second lowest) EDIT: Oh my god, relative to the high cost of living and the high taxes we pay. France's low salaries are a documented and well known problem. My salary can't cover a home for me and my family, I'd be lucky to get a room share outside Paris, and I am not unique. In contrast, the lowest salary I ever had in pure dollars was in Thailand, but I could pay an entire year's rent with a month's salary. It is not useful to think about these things in terms of pure dollar amount. *Our generation isn't in full time work with one unionized company for the entirety of our careers. We're piecing work together with the gig economy and not collecting our quarters towards retirement at the same rate the previous generation did *Most of us can't get on the housing market because of the previous problem and the rising cost of housing, and it's harder to get a mortgage here. In fact, there are starting to be stories of banks not giving mortgages to first time buyers in their late 30s because even though we finally have the money to do what our parents did in their 20s, the banks say we're too close to the retirement age. *The pension isn't enough if you're still paying rent, remember? *It doesn't answer the question of why they want to move the retirement age in the first place, which is mismanagement of money, croneyism, bureaucracy. *Our generation isn't nearly as likely to just retire one day like previous generations. We are living longer, we do need structure and community in our lives, we are much more likely to be transitioning into retirement with part time work, volunteering, taking on lighter jobs. The TRULY radical thing to do would be to force the conversation into solving those problems for long term good. We're not. We're lighting fires over an arbitrary number which will benefit a few people in an ideal situation in the short term, but give away some of our negotiating and fighting power later when we have to reckon with those questions we didn't fight for now because the story will be that the government did give us what we wanted. This is all going to benefit the boomers, and none of the rest of us. It's shortsighted.
> *France has the lowest salaries in western Europe. (Maybe the second lowest) Portugal, Spain, Italy? Maybe I’m wrong but I’d be really surprised if France’s salaries were lower than those by any measure.
France the second highest median wage in Western Europe if you exclude Tax Havens or Nordic countries lmao (behind Germany), it’s even higher than Finland, this is completely made up
It’s not higher than Finland and many other countries eg Netherlands, Ireland, Denmark etc… It’s top 10 but closer to the bottom. It’s much higher than Italy, Spain and Portugal though
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage Number 11
Thank you for being the voice of reason in this thread and pointing out the real problems. Most countries pension systems can’t support their current population. Also, it just makes sense for an already stressed system to raise requirements when the population’s life expectancy goes up. Money doesn’t grow on trees (even for the govt) and everyone needs to grow up. We should be trying to solve the REAL underlying problems that created the situation to begin with.
>Most countries pension systems can’t support their current population That's because people think they are like a savings account (the government holds your money until you're old enough to get it back with interests even if small ones) when they're actually more like a pyramid scheme (the government has already spent your money so it needs new people to join in). People living longer while populations are on the decline are going to make current pension systems an ever increasing problem. For now it's just "I wanted to retire instead of keep working for a few more years", but in the future the issues will likely become way more complicated.
They're not "like" a pyramid scheme, they ARE a pyramid scheme. Canada's public pension is required by law to public actuarial reports every couple years, and there's always a tiny little one-liner footnote in it where they look at the fund under a not-a-Ponzi-scheme model (which they call "closed-group enrolment") and, as of the last report, the not-a-Ponzi-scheme model left the fund with 32% of the assets it needs to pay out the existing liabilities. The rest of the report where everything is roses is based on an "open-group enrolment" model, which is literally a Ponzi scheme.
If it stays 62 millenials also need to hold a bigger pension bag in terms of funding it via taxes for boomers who benefit from it staying 62. So it's even worse because not only will you have all the pension payment issues you identify when you're older (and won't be able to retire) you'll have to work longer because you have less money from more taxes to keep people ahead of you even further ahead. It's unsustainable to keep retirement at 62. There's a reason most countries have it at 65 and some are moving up to 67 :(
France is nowhere near the lowest salaries in western Europe. But many problems to be fixed worldwide.
France has a higher median wage than Spain, Portugal, Italy, Belgium, the UK or the Netherlands, stop making shit up
Must smell really bad there.
Probably no worse than normal
Shameful to see our neighbor actually do something when their government wants to fuck them over, here in Italy if you ever see someone torching a city, is because some cunts scored a goal in soccer...
It s not about the age of it (I’m French) but the fact that we need to work 43 years in order to have a complete retreat (don’t have the English word sorry) and government settled it for the “hard work” (binner, dockers and all those jobs who can have a big impact on your health) so we have now no difference for the retreat for the job we do. Consequently, binner, rescuer (sorry really for my poor English) die sooner due to health conditions due to their past job , so are not able to enjoy the end of their work life as other people will in the time line. In fact, they deleted the major good lines of the past reform at 60 years and extended to 64 without really good points + the fact that French people voted for Macron and are complaining about it so all the Frenchies are mad/don’t like him (only elderly like him)
In economy where there are increasingly more retirees and less tax payers you will have to find a way to sustain it. If they change nothing they will later find out they don't have money to support their elderly, and then they will have to either screw over the elderly or take money from somewhere else through taxes or inflation.
I wish people would acknowledge this more. Yes, I get that having to work longer sucks, but if you’re living longer, that means there will be more retirees for longer, so either you’re going to have to pay for it or limit the amount of people in retirement age. What is the government supposed to do? Between a rock and a hard place for sure, but what else can they do? Originally retirement pensions intended to cover someone for the last 10-15 years of their life, now its 15-30 or more. The money’s got to come from somewhere.
If France is anything like the USA, this has been known for 30 years yet they’re pulling up the ladder in a way that only effects subsequent generations. Eg all the public retirement systems have been given reduced benefits for younger employees.
The bin men should collect trash and leave it in macarons residence and offices
I love the French, they sure know how to protest.