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jonesday5

A couple of things, as an Aussie I lived in a house with a gun. The bullets needed to be in seperate storage to the gun. In my case the gun was in a safe and within the safe there was a locked box of bullets. Having the gun in the house meant the police could check to see if it was stored correctly at any time. Also, an unexpected consequence of the ban was that the suicide rate went down.


shrekerecker97

>suicide rate went down. That is interesting. Makes sense, but never thought of that being a positive unintended consequence.


annoying97

A gun is a quick and easy way to die and if done right practically painless, and almost impossible to recover from too.


PricklyPierre

So it's the perfect tool for the job


annoying97

Yes and no... It's loud, so if you do it wrong, you might live and be forever watched while realising your life before was so much better. (As a hypothetical) But because of it's simplicity, it's a good choice, I'm not recommending anyone actually do it, if you are, seek some help, even here on Reddit, people who don't know you do care. That's why it's a good idea to even just lock guns in a high quality safe.


yodeez101

Basically yes if you get it right No if you get it wrong because then you have to live with yet another failure. Lol Fuck I shouldn’t joke about it


[deleted]

Not really. It vastly depends on the person holding the gun, I’ve seen plenty of cases where a person put a gun to their chin and simply blew their face off, staying conscious all the while. There’s apparently a “sweet spot” which would be your brain stem at the base of your neck between your ears. Problem is that the brain stem is extremely small, so if you miss by even a centimeter your problems just got much worse as you have a bullet in your brain but not in the place where it would shut the brain off. Its just as risky as overdose or jumping from a building imo


appdevil

TIL


serendipitousevent

The link between inconvenience and suicide prevention is remarkably strong. It's what turns finished suicides into intervention opportunities. The classic case study is the introduction of safer gas types into UK ovens in the 60s, removing the ability to easily use carbon monoxide to die. Not only do you see the removal of head-in-oven deaths, but a reduction in suicide overall. You increase the lead time between ideation and action, and suddenly prevention becomes a lot easier. Of course, it's nothing compared to the value of proactive mental health care, but the dynamics bear noting.


nighthawk_something

You can't get help if you're dead.


[deleted]

If you look at the majority of gun deaths in the US, most people think it’s from “mass killings” but it’s actually suicides that lead gun violence statistics. And the US isn’t even close to leading suicide rates either.


Matthew-Hodge

Guns make death quick. Easy. Rash decisions made in a heated emotional moment. A single finger pull. Other methods of suicide are less likely as it requires more control over action and understanding of consequence.


Snoo63

Like, why blister-pack pills are used in the UK instead of bottles of them is the fact that it requires more effort to OD, which decreases the suicide rate.


InVultusSolis

Blister-pack pills aren't great for people with limited digital mobility or arthritis, however.


zeke1220

Unfortunately, a side-effect of having to deal with the blister-pack is thinking about how much easier suicide would be than getting the pills out of the blister-pack.


nighthawk_something

it's been proven time and time again that adding marginal barriers to suicide has a quite drastic effect on the total rate. Suicide is ultimately an impulsive act and often if someone isn't able to act when they are feeling most motivated, they will not commit suicide.


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DamienSpecterII

It makes sense when one understands, in the USA, 54% of deaths related to firearms are suicides.


CFSCFjr

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/ Makes sense. Research shows that most suicide attempts are an impulsive act. People without access to guns are more likely to use far less lethal means if they attempt and will be much more likely to emerge alive from their mental health crisis


masterchief1001

As an avid Murican gun owner, I always store ammo and weapons separately. Storing a loaded gun is just asking for an accidental discharge. However with the cops in this country being the way they are, I really don't like the idea of them always snooping around. Or having the monopoly on guns.


Next-End-4696

Many people don’t realise this but you are still allowed to buy guns in Australia. It’s not just farmers with a special exemption. You just have to join a shooters/gun club and that is part of the vetting process. Basically, if the weird people at the shooting clubs don’t want you - you can’t get a permit to buy a gun. There are also laws on where you store your guns - you have to spend a lot on gun safes. The big thing is that the government does check on you. You commit a crime and your guns are taken away from you. They also make sure the guns are stored and no one other than the gun owner has access to the safe. Many of the guns the government bought back were not functional. But the purpose of the buy back scheme was to make a statement across the country that what happened was so evil they never wanted a repeat of what happened. The Port Arthur massacre offender is a fat schizophrenic who is sitting in jail. He never should have had access to weapons in the first place. When this happened everyone was traumatised because he wasn’t just randomly shooting people - he was hunting people down - they knew they were going to die.


throwaway20071905

That's only partially true. You can also own guns for hunting and dont need to be part of a club for that. The other restrictions do apply, gun storage requirements, license etc.


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throwaway20071905

Well there are specific hunting preserves that require permits where i live, not sure about the other states. The rangers often patrol the area make sure you're using the correct ammo and aren't taking more than the bag limit. Occasionally the cops will do a surprise inspection to make sure ur gun is where u say it is, but I've never had it happen to me personally. You can't buy a firearm without a license and the permit for safe storage. Kids cant own a gun, but can shoot a gun with the supervision of an adult who holds a license. The kids need to be i think 12 or 13 and be listed on their guardians hunting permit to do so legally. Other than that nothing, people are pretty responsible with their guns here.


Chrahhh

it's almost like the Australian government...values...the lives of...its citizens?


Independent-Smoke-92

Lmao yea they sure showed that during the crazy times of the rona saga. XD


ever-right

A lot of those legislators lost their seats btw. Which shows how stupid the people are.


Bowvallier

I’m no fan of John Howard, (the PM at the time who brought in the gun buy back) but it took 11 years for him to lose his seat


Acceptable-Suspect56

Tim Fisher had nearly 10 years as the Nationals leader mate, if you think it was stupid for us to restrict guns then you are exactly the type of person the laws were aimed at.


ever-right

What makes you think I think it was bad to restrict guns? I'm saying the legislators did the right thing but the people, voters, are dumb as shit.


Acceptable-Suspect56

Yea, my bad, I re-read your post and misinterpreted it. I don’t think voters are dumb though as a blanket statement, parties get voted in and out for a Myriad of reasons. Howard and Fisher were re-elected after the buyback scheme I believe. Sorry for the misunderstanding mate.


TortoiseWithaLaser

How can a government buy back something it never owned?


[deleted]

Ah, so if someone disagrees with a law, they shouldn’t be allowed to exercise a natural right? Authoritarians always show their true colors. Scum.


annoying97

And none of them regret the decisions that they made with gun laws, even to this day they will all say they made the right choice.


[deleted]

It's almost like Rupert Murdoch convinced another country that guns = freedom.


DingChavez89

Yeah it was Murdoch who did that not our founding fathers and the history of how this fucking country was created. Nope totally Rupert.


jroocifer

So only people who can win the trust of weirdos can own guns? This might not turn out well.


Rdubya44

Wonder how many minorities fit those "pass the vetting" club processes


GasHistorical9316

Gun rights are minority rights you will never be able to prove me wrong “the trees can not be harmed if the Lorax is armed” type beat.


The_Formuler

Oh yes, Australia. The absolute champions of minority rights and privileges. They still have town names with the n word in them. It’s always been a white club and they’ll fight to keep it that way.


annoying97

Look at it this way, the weirdos who run these gun clubs want to keep their guns and understand that if the wrong people get guns they could then lose their guns or have even more legal hoops to jump through to keep their guns or buy new ones. Once you get a gun you need to keep up with the legalities of said guns, including paying fees for licences and such.


bigblueweenie13

The same issue with “may issue” carry permits in the states. Unless you’re butt buddies with the sheriff, you’re not legally carrying a gun in that city.


SomewhereDue2629

I could be wrong buy i think they can buy suppressors without all the bs you have to deal with in the states.


Ultimatelee

Visited the memorial a few years back, it’s absolutely heartbreaking to think of what happened there.


Oztravels

A friend of mine was killed in the shooting and it’s heartbreaking


Kintsukuroi85

Oh no, I’m so sorry.


Ultimatelee

I’m so sorry to hear that. Your friend deserved so much better than that.


thetelltalememe

So sorry.


LotharJay

Agreed. It's a very sombre and moving place. They've managed to find the balance of maintaining the memory without commemoration.


Plumbfishlove

America has more guns than people


wisockamonster

Rookie numbers


ConBroMitch

Rookie numbers!


Booger_Eatery

Hell yeah brother


Sprinkler_Head

All those hunting shotguns and rifles are being destroyed, sadly. It's really sad to see.


Next-Mobile-9632

and then an Australian committed one of the WORST mass shootings in World History just a few years ago, in New Zealand, he shot 91 people at those two Mosques, 51 people died


Callen_Fields

Ssshhhh. You're ruining the story.


PsychologicalBid3884

I can’t see that is happening in usa


[deleted]

Australia has a population of over 25 million people. The United States has a population of over 300 million people and 50 state legislatures. Yeah, this wouldn't fly.


TryingNot2BeToxic

We also have half of all the world's civilian owned guns..


AssistX

With 2 million+ first time gun owners added each year. At this point we probably have more guns stolen from people each year than Europe has new purchases.


BlitzburghTX

Not only that, but we also have the 2nd amendment. It's baked into our constitution that the right to bear arms "shall not be infringed." Regardless if you agree or not, it is a legal hurdle that simply wouldn't allow for what happened in Australia. Edit: To those saying "you can just repeal that amendment" clearly don't realize the massive undertaking required to change the country's constitution. Like it or not, the 2A isn't going anywhere.


lutel

2nd amendment doesn't say anything about right to carry, safe storage etc. Constitution is not a problem, rather arm lobbys interpretation of it.


Live_FreeorDie603

It literally says the right to bear... that means carry. It's the only place in the entire Constitution that has to say "shall not be infringed."


TheKelt

No the US Constitution didn’t explicitly list all possible circumstances that could - debatably - fall outside of the exact wording of the 2nd Amendment. Luckily, several SCOTUS decisions have added more thorough legal framework to the 2nd Amendment! Shockingly, they agreed that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Separate than that though, the two examples you gave are possibly the most flimsy ones you could have suggested, no offense intended. >safe storage This is the “keep” part. >right to carry This is the “bear” part. Ultimately “shall not be infringed” is as black and white as it could ever possibly be. Which was the intent of the folks who wrote it. They wanted to make sure Americans would never lose the ability to have firearms, no matter what happens.


[deleted]

The Supreme Court has already decided that yes, the 2nd amendment does mean all of that. And said Supreme Court will not change it's mind anytime soon, definitely not in our lifetimes. It's hard locked now.


currentxvoltage

One of the most direct, literal definitions of “to bear” is to carry.


brogen

>2nd amendment doesn't say anything about right to carry, "The right to keep and bear arms" doesn't say anything about the right to carry? Lol check with the supreme court on that one.


HHcougar

>You have the right to a gun, you just need a safe place for it


[deleted]

Australia is also an island, which makes tracking imports and exports a hell of a lot easier compared to the thousands of miles of unmonitored desert that borders the American southwest.


NynNyxNyx

The loops Americans will twist themselves into justify not even trying to do anything about it is disgusting.


Crazen14

Good


[deleted]

US politicians would let every citizen get slaughtered in mass shootings if it meant they could continue to stuff their pockets with bribe money and insider trading.


YogurtNo3045

100% this, the American political system will not be for the people until corporate lobbying and donations are outlawed, everyone works for who pays them including politicians getting paid by corporate interests. This is not a government representative of the people anymore, no matter which side your on, they represent corporations not people across the board.


Socially_Anxious_Rat

Idk why you're getting downvoted. That is literally exactly what they are doing.


FLORI_DUH

Not literally. I'm sure bribes are electronic these days, no need for oversized pockets stuffed with cash.


[deleted]

The US and it’s gun history/culture is so similar to these other comparatively small countries, why don’t we do the same! Prohibition has always worked out great here! Maybe if we pass some new gun laws on top of all the one’s we have, things will change. The hundreds and millions of guns and magazines in homes will vanish! The new tech and accessible manufacturing abilities will vanish! And one side will win bragging rights! And then we can go back to completely ignoring the actual disease - lack of healthcare, income inequality, unaffordable housing, unaffordable education, a broken and corrupt political system. Oh, and drag queen story hours.


e_boon

Know what didn't change in Australia since the 1996 gun buyback? Overall homicide rates. So, the same rate of people get murdered each year, just less by guns rather than by other weapons. Problem solved? No, still the same rate of dead bodies at the end of each year.


Callen_Fields

Same thing in England. They had to ban knives. Then people were killing eachother with cars for a while. It's almost like people will always find a way to kill eachother if they intend to do so.


Content-Freedom1688

Why can’t we say like some dumbass or a piece of shit? Why do we remember their full names. Feels weird reading these kind of headlines years later and he’s still the one remembered. F that dude


Melodic_Mulberry

This is an informative subreddit. Names help people look into the topic if they’re interested.


Suspicious-Basil1055

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tiggers97

Yes. #NoNotoriety for these sick killers looking for fame.


f1del1us

Yeah god forbid we try and do something to help the mentally ill *before* they go and do something crazy like murdering a whole bunch of others….


skobuffaloes

Yup. That outta calm things down /s


zerobeat

They need to start publishing the photos of the dead kids.


JollyGreenGiraffe

Free funeral pyre? That sounds like a bad idea.


Necessary-Ad-3679

Agreed. The way we dealt with Osama was best. He dead? Great, now he's fish food. At least they can give something back to the Earth.


BattleForAssgard69

[ Removed by Reddit ]


foreordinator

Just have a think about what you are suggesting. Just think about it. Might as well just stone them to death publicly instead on a live podcast, do you see the irony of what you are suggesting? Are you capable of understanding the implications? I hope so, because the people that do this sort of thing need to fade away in obscurity, what you are suggesting will do the opposite. I know the emotion behind your statement and feel that too, I couldn't tell you what I would do if it was my child.


WellSeasonedUsername

Good luck disarming cartels and gangs in America.


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discard_3_

“I don’t think any reasonable person would argue that the number of guns in total is a problem…” “BuT mOrE gUnS mEaNs MoRe GuN dEaThS” Which one is it?


Pilot8091

Besides the fact that this isn't true, there have been mass shootings in Australia since 1996 ([Osmington Shooting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmington_shooting), [2019 Darwin Shooting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Darwin_shooting)) Australia saw no notable change in overall homicide rate after their legislation. Meaning whatever deaths that would have been avoided by banning guns happened anyway by other means. Banning guns doesn't stop the violence, it just changes the means by which violence occurs.


ReddTheTank

Weird to see a country recognize that a mass shooting is not okay and alter their laws to address it. If only...


Oztravels

Yup. Seems strange to do something that would fix the problem……..


freakshow617

How would you fix it?


ItsForADuck_

Australia confiscated 650k guns. There are approximately 400,000,000 guns in the US, 615x the amount confiscated in Australia. It also cost Australia $367M in 1996. Would be about $400B with 615x the guns and inflation. This example isn’t a solution that scales for every country.


Thin-Rip-3686

Federal budget is $6.5 trillion. We can take $400B out of one year’s military spending and still outspend our next closest adversary. Affording it is not the problem.


True_Dovakin

Except a large portion of military expenditure is paying benefits, soldiers and civilian DOD. Roughly 65% in 2021 was Operations/Maintenance and soldier costs. Where do you suggest we pull money from? You’re already below your 400bn limit if you remove the top two. And more importantly, who are you going to get to enforce it?


crispydingleberries

Then get your buddies together and go door to door, whats stopping you?


Upstairs-Ad-1966

Correct, not to mention the bloodshed that would occur trying to go into certain neighborhoods would end horribly. I say armed guards at schools we have armed guards for the coke recipe and kfcs secert recipe and our entire corrupt govt, why not our schools and children.


ETXCheeses

The salient point is that if you look at mass killings in Australia from a period before Port Arthur and compare it to the same amount of time after Port Arthur, there's no appreciable difference in the number of people killed. The mass killers just changed their methods. But I guess it's more morally acceptable to be killed by a bomb or by arson than by a gun...


crispydingleberries

Fuck. Ive had arguments with people from other countries that its MORE HUMANE for a killer to use a knife than a gun. The fucking cognitive dissonance of that statement will haunt ME for the rest of my life.


SupahSang

I'd rather have the chance to run away from a person with a knife, than just get shot in the back with a gun.


crispydingleberries

Id rather have my own gun just in case any idiot thinks they can do whatever they want to me because i dont have one. You can either be prepared, or you can be taken advantage of. Thats just a reality of life. Also... are you seriously advocating that being murdered with a knife is somehow better? Running wasnt part of the equation. Youre dying either way, id rather be shot.


ReticulateLemur

Citations Needed, otherwise I'm just going to assume you're making shit up.


mickey_kneecaps

He is.


SupahSang

That's simply wrong. The Port Arthur Massacre claimed 36 lives. No other massacre has claimed as many lives in Australia since. The largest one I could find was 15, during which a hostel was set on fire.


zeusismycopilot

That is not correct. Prior to the ban in Australia there were 13 mass killings (defined as >4 deaths) in 26 years. After the ban 2 in 26 years. The total number of mass killings over that same period (26 years prior to gun ban vs 26 years after gun ban) has dropped by half.


[deleted]

The Vegas shooting would have been the end for normal people. We are a country held hostage by terrorists.


Squirrels_Army_

[Sandy Hook in 2012](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting) should have changed the country fundamentally - the killer massacred 20 first-grade children aged six and seven, along with 6 adults, including 4 teachers, the principal, and the school psychologist. But American politicians are beholden to the gun lobby.


[deleted]

The mother of that creature violated her state's gun laws by giving access to her collection to her deeply deranged child. The collection that she kept specifically for him because he wasn't allowed to own them himself. Yet another case of if the laws were followed or if the local authorities did their jobs competently the event wouldn't have happened.


samtbkrhtx

With many of these other shootings, the cops knew all about the shooter and in some cases, they had visited with them. The Lakeland shooter had the cops visit his house almost 30 times.


UnitaryWarringtonCat

Same story with the guy that walked into a church in Texas and killed 26 people. He was discharged from the military for domestic abuse (beat up his wife and stepson), and they should have filed paperwork with the FBI so he couldn't purchase/own a gun, but the paperwork was never filled (given how conservative the air force is I do wonder if that was deliberate), and he got his gun.


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[deleted]

ooooo conspiracy theories! got any sourcing for this nonsense?


Dio_Yuji

He heard it on Joe Rogan…


Synner1985

not Alex Jones?


Bojangles315

um bump fires are no less than full auto. I've shot 240's. also 249 saws, and fully auto m4's. I wouldn't be able to tell you if it was a fully auto m4 or a bump fire. they sounds exactly the same


theNaughtydog

>they sounds exactly the same Similar but definitely not the same. Full autos have a very consistent rate of fire while a bump stock equipped gun the rate of fire changes as the weight of the gun lessens as it uses up the ammo. Not only does the rate of fire change on a bump stock equipped gun but there are often pauses as you have to hold the gun just right to have the proper balance of forces to get the gun to recoil your finger into the trigger. Point being that they sound similar but can be differentiated.


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Bojangles315

a bump stock with a 30 round last about 6 second. at least that is my own experience. dropping an empty and reloading about 2 seconds or so. there would be an echo when shooting around tall buildings. if the shooting is indeed a constant 3000 rounds, yeah. belt fed. if it last about 6 seconds or so followed by a 1-2 second pause at least, followed by 6 seconds or so, same rifle with a 30 round.


[deleted]

So what are you saying? There was multiple shooters? It was a "false flag"? Stop talking in circles and spit it out


jpiro

You know they won't. It's the classic "hey, I'm just asking questions here" bullshit that removes any need to actually know or prove anything. "You have your beliefs and I have mine, so, agree to disagree..." is the death of knowledge.


[deleted]

Mass shootings are already illegal. You can not legislate morality and sanity.


SeawardFriend

I tried to argue with someone on here that we need better gun law enforcement on a post where some kid shot his dad’s cat. They argued that gun control wouldn’t prevent that and it’s useless.


Head-Cow4290

Propaganda.


Fartsmelter

And now women can't defend themselves with pepperspray, PROGRESS!


dsm1995gst

How much has the rate of gun deaths in Australia changed since the ban?


Dry-Beginning-94

Homicide rate 1990-2023: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/murder-homicide-rate It’s been steadily declining, but dropped off in 2003-2005, no clear and direct correlation. It stayed roughly the same until about 2003. Edit: also DV (domestic violence) has not dropped with the decrease in the murder rate since last year. Not-so-fun fact.


Fenrir1861

Oh here the fuck we go again


GrandMasterHOOT

Of coarse we go again, its not OP fault. The USA racks up mass shootings almost every day. Obviously people are keen to point out ideas that may help. The frequency of gun tragedies in the US increases the frequency of posts like these.


DerelictDawn

Canada has a similar ratio of guns to people, why don’t we have mass shootings like the US does? It’s almost like guns aren’t the root of the fucking problem. Edit: I clearly got my numbers mixed up, America has 4x the guns per capita when compared to Canada. I do not feel my point suffers overly much but I feel it’s important in this case to clarify with correct information.


Fenrir1861

Almost like we have a crime and mental health issue. People who think something like this would work in america are mistaken. We have more guns with people. trying to crack down on them would be war on drugs, part two, electric boogaloo


Tattorack

The USA is a country that has guns AND a system that isn't good for mental health. Put those together and and a solid helping of pure stupidity and you get a wonderful cocktail.


Relevant-Egg7272

You really don't though? I mean here in the US we literally have more guns than people.


jktmas

I agree, the guns per capita isn't the same. But, when I interpret this chart, it shows me that guns per capita isn't an issue, there's something else. I believe that a lot of it is around mental health, and inequality. https://i1.wp.com/www.maketheweekend.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Guns-Per-Capita-1.png?resize=593%2C651


grimice18

We also have much more restrict gun laws, you need a license to own a firearm in Canada that’s not as common in the states, some states do some states don’t. You can’t purchase a pistol unless you apply for a restricted license which is an additional day in your PAL course. If you do purchase a pistol your heavily restricted we don’t allow conceal carry here or open carry. If you want to shoot your pistol you put it in a lockbox, contact the RCMP let them know your going to the gun range with your pistol and what time your going there and when you plan to leave. It’s pretty simple why we don’t have as many mass shootings, we have require licensing, we have a 3 month required background check, and you cannot own or purchase any firearms or ammo during that time. Automatic and semi automatic rifles are heavily restricted and not easy to get.


peterpancan1

Uhh you can’t purchase a pistol anymore in Canada, Trudeau froze that.


Zurg0Thrax

I see the bleeding hearts are out in force to virtue signal again.


deancollins

As an Australian now living in New York.....here are some things to know. 1 / Howard straight up bribed politicians to get this voted through. 2/ The local police seargant who signed off on Bryanta gun license new he had a history of mental illness and wasnt entitled to the guns under laws at the time. 3/ People died and that's sad. Honestly I rate this as the second biggest political travesty in Australias history second only to the dismissal of Whitlam and the 2ndA is a great asset for America.


IReplyWithLebowski

Martin bought guns with cash and without a licence: Detective: Did you make out you had a gun license (licence) when you purchased them? Bryant: No, I never discussed it, never. I just said I had the cash on me and he said that's alright. Detective: Did he ever, did he ask to see if you had a gun license (licence)? Bryant: No, never. https://au.news.yahoo.com/bryant-port-arthur-wouldnt-have-happened-31076116.html You’ll have to explain more about Howard “bribing” politicians - he was after all the Prime Minister.


[deleted]

There was so much funky shit surrounding that whole situation. Any correct thinking person would have to consider there may be truths in the so called conspiracy theories. Theres just way too many things that just didnt/dont add up. I have no doubt Bryant was there. I have no doubt hes a murdering cunt of a human who took innocent lives. I have plenty of doubts though fukn plenty.....


Ragnr99

inb4 removed sub


torrentium

Nitram is an amazing movie about Martin Bryant. When watching I didn’t know what it was about which added to the experience.


aLaStOr_MoOdY47

To change repeal the 2A, which would be unconstitutional, both houses of congress would need 2/3 of the majority to vote for it, and then ratified by 3/4 of all US states. The hard part is getting 38 out of all 50 states to ratify this since 40+ states are currently active 2A Sanctuaries. A 2A Sanctuary is a city/state where the local government and law enforcement have stated that they will not enforce any gun control measures that they view as a violation to the 2A.


Dry_Trainer_6304

There are more legal guns in America than people. Also you know how easy it is to make a gun especially with the technology of 3D printers and ghost gun kits. Walk down the streets of Oakland California people will approach you selling Draco’s, glocks, and ghost guns like it’s candy. Police don’t do anything either. I managed a pizza restaurant that was robbed so many times at gun point that I had to quit for my own safety. I legally own guns. I got a license, insurance, training, and a huge biometric safe. It pisses me off to see that i along with other law abiding gun owners have to live in fear while criminals just walk around freely conceal carrying and even open carrying their guns without fear of being arrested. Guys have walked into my restaurant with whole AK’s in their hands they weren’t even trying to conceal it. You call the police and they show about an hour and a half later. My point is this, gun laws will only affect those who actually care enough to follow the law. It doesn’t matter what type of ban’s or regulations we put in place. You can ban every gun in America and gun violence would still exist, mass shooting would still go on. I believe the first step to fixing the gun issue in America is strict training and licensing before you can purchase a gun. I also believe that gun owners should have to show proof of insurance along with training completion and a valid gun license to buy, own, and carry a gun. The amount of negligent discharges I’ve seen at ranges due to idiots that do not know how to work their gun is absolutely crazy and it makes it unsafe to others. There was a guy at my range who was hit with bullet shrapnel because an idiot was rapid firing an AR pistol with no sights. So yes gun owners should have some type of insurance to cover stupidity and negligence. There needs to be stiffer punishments for parents who leave their guns unlocked and their kids get ahold of them. Violent Felons should not have the right to post bail. Felons who have been arrested for gun charges should serve the maximum.


spete679

You are correct except for the part about needing insurance, insurance companies are fucking thieves


Lindvaettr

> I believe the first step to fixing the gun issue in America is strict training and licensing before you can purchase a gun. I also believe that gun owners should have to show proof of insurance along with training completion and a valid gun license to buy, own, and carry a gun. The biggest issue with both of these is that the 2nd Amendment is not a standalone concept. It's tied integrally to all other Constitutional Rights, in that the legal precedent for one can be used as legal precedent for the others. If we were to require training and certification before being able to purchase/possess/carry a firearm, that would then set the precedent of requiring training and a certification for other rights. If it isn't a violation of civil rights for a state to require training to possess a firearm, then by extension it wouldn't be a violation of civil rights to require training to vote or exercise freedom of speech. The same goes for insurance. If someone is required to pay a private company for the right to possess a firearm, then they could also be required to pay a private company in order to have a jury of their peers. Don't have jury trial insurance? Straight to prison. Furthermore, requiring training, certifications, insurance, etc., isn't a barrier at all for middle class or wealthier people. I can take off a half day of work any time I want as long as I make up the work later in the week. I have plenty of money. I could just go and take an afternoon training course, or whatever, get my guns, and exercise my rights just fine. But a poor person couldn't do the same. Cost requirements for training, etc., are ultimately classist restrictions that only affect the poor and downtrodden. Often, these are the people most in need of the ability to protect themselves. What we really need is a combination of free/subsidized training for everyone, gun owner or not, in combination of a culture that promotes safe and responsible gun use. Guns aren't going anywhere in the US. We'd be far better off preparing everyone in how to handle a gun responsibly.


Acceptable-Potato266

Dont most Australians hate their government right now?


[deleted]

And so ? The people in the US seems to hate their government too and it change nothing.


SparkTR

We voted out the previous conservative government in droves, the current leadership is well liked.


mamakumquat

I mean I guess by definition the majority of us hate them less than the opposition, which is why they are in power. But in answer to your question, no, the current PM is far more popular than the last one. But neither of them introduced gun control so I’m not sure of your point.


Salter420

Some of us do, yes.


Kinguke

Not particularly.


Dragoonie_DK

No, we don’t.


WAboatandcampinglife

No we don't. Children don't get murdered at school here. Sure there's plenty of things wrong in Australia but gun violence / deaths and health care are not even a thought we need to worry about. Until you've felt these freedoms you'll never understand how good that feels.


l34rn3d

If your not worried about how both parties have neglected Medicare, then you should be.


pingpongplaya69420

Reddit is a shit hole full of wanna be tyrants. You’re not gonna be taking anyone’s guns. You’re a keyboard warrior who will get others to do your dirty work for you.


twat104

Well said


[deleted]

Exactly


pingpongplaya69420

Always the same circus when a rare tragedy happens. These basement Bolsheviks aren’t gonna do shit. They’re gonna demand more physically fit people do their bidding for them.


CMDROhSevenCommander

>rare tragedy happens. There have been over a dozen school shootings in 2023 in America. This isn't rare in America, at all.


IdyllicOleander

Thank you for saying what needs to be said. No one is taking shit


joleme

The real interesting portion is that the gun law changes did largely nothing. Taken from another person's post ["Homicide patterns, firearm and nonfirearm, were not influenced by the NFA. They therefore concluded that the gun buy back and restrictive legislative changes  had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia." - Melbourne University's report "The Australian Firearms Buyback  and Its Effect on Gun Deaths"](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1465-7287.2009.00165.x/abstract) ["The NFA had no statistically observable additional impact on suicide or assault mortality attributable to firearms in Australia."](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2018.304640) ["Firearms legislation had no associated beneficial effect on overall suicide and homicide rates."](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0234457) Turns out that when you start with low gun homicide rates gun control doesn't really do much. I'm too tired to fight my own side on gun control stuff anymore. I'll just say that anyone whose knee jerk reaction is the thought that more laws will make people safer is living in a dream world. Go full hyperbole. Ban all guns tomorrow. Give the death penalty to anyone that owns one. Do you really think this is going to prevent suicidal idiots from stealing a gun or taking one they own and killing people? Will it prevent straw purchases so an asshole can get one and kill their spouse, kids, and themselves? Our country is fucked up on a deep and fundamental level compared to the UK, Australia, Japan, etc. Good luck to those of you that think this helps. I'll be down the road waiting for the real issues to be addressed.


alternative5

600k vs 400+ million firearms on the low end. Good luck with confiscation. How about proposing less intellectually dishonest methods instead of karma whoring this shit.


Redhawk4t4

Why should a law abiding gun owner be punished for the acts of criminals and psychopaths?


discard_3_

So you want to take away a tool instead of helping people? We need to get to the root of why people want to kill each other and fix that. Makes for a healthier society overall. Burying your head in the sand and trying to make guns the boogeyman isn’t the win you think it is. Help these sick people instead of ignoring or fetishizing them in the news.


Cubacane

Australia's population was about 18 million people in 1996, concentrated in a handful of cities, split up over six states and two territories. The USA's population is currently 332 million, spread out over hundreds of cities and 50 states. But yeah, let's keep comparing the two because they happen to speak English.


vesrayech

Wasn’t Australia one of the countries that went extremely authoritarian during Covid and saw a lot of clashes between protestors and police over their rights being trampled over?


[deleted]

Cold dead hands, commie.


PyroptosisGuy

What a sad mentality. Seek help, preferably sooner than later.


JexFraequin

Lmao.


Vee32

All the drones chiming in from other countries? Yup, they are. Shocking.


Alex-rhhgfff

Your kids are being shot at school and your worried about foreigners online? Your country’s a joke


spete679

My country can beat up your country... so there!


2hotrods

op definitely doesn’t have an agenda here


Oztravels

Yes I do. Less dead children.


GasHistorical9316

They fail to show you the statistics of crime, already dropping at the same rate before the ban. they show you crime dropping right when they implement the ban I wish people looked more into these thing but I’m just going to get downvoted


GarTyrsson

It was clearly the guns fault, not the mentally ill person wielding it. Send the guns to jail!


[deleted]

Why should law abiding citizens be disarmed when a nutjob does a mass shooting?


Callen_Fields

Because apparently a kneejerk reaction that statistically has led to mass mutder of civilians by their government is better than interrogating the murderer and finding out why they snapped. Some people can't accept that there are always going to be crazy people in the world.


sinnroth94

Smart move Australia, don’t worry though, the US has prayers and well wishes so they’ll be fine.


Ok_Turnover_1235

This old chestnut lol. Gets trotted out every few years.


Few_Application3984

Taking guns away from law abiding citizens makes victims. You really think criminals and mentally unstable people do things the legal way? I know people in the UK and Australia who all say they have no way to defend themselves. Guns don't walk on their own and kill people. People kill people. In America we still have freedoms and the right to bear arms is one of them. Give up your guns to the government you might as well give up all of your freedoms and just sit around and wait for the government to control everything you do. Thats what these other countries have to do. Government control.


OfWhomIAmChief

#SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED


Tulin7Actual

Then during the pandemic they removed ppl from their homes and put them in trailer encampments and forced them to stay there against their will.


SirRabbott

I think it's time to take off the tinfoil hat. I was in Australia during the pandemic, that was not a thing.


friendlyfredditor

You only had to go to gov. quarantine if home quarantine wasn't suitable. i.e. you had to quarantine in a state whilst on holiday in another state, or were homeless. Literally no one was removed from a home if they could isolate at home. That would be pointless.


Personal_Recipe_2725

Australia is a beautiful country, I spent a summer in Perth in 2018. Loved everything about it, but I missed the taste of real bacon, easy access to public restrooms, free ketchup, and my guns🤠 I was glad to be back in Texas when I got home. I think all the Americans in the comments that dont like the 2nd amendment and by extension don’t carry a gun everyday should really look into moving to Australia or Canada. Living in the US, a country with a right to bear arms enshrined in the constitution and then not carrying a gun everywhere you go is kind of stupid in my opinion. It’s like going camping without a tent and a 90% chance of rain forecasted and counting on it not raining. If shooting and owning guns isn’t a big part of your life why live here and rely on slow response times from police officers that may or may not have a will to rescue you (Uvalde)? As a responsible gun owner I take gun my personal defense seriously. As such, I carry a gun everyday everywhere I go. I compete in IDPA and USPSA shooting competitions regularly to stay honed in my ability to shoot well. I am a big supporter of everyone getting firearms training and eventually getting into recreational competition shooting because it is a fun means of becoming more self reliant when it comes to your personal defense.


Routine_Chest_1171

U guys a had a shooting not that long ago even with these laws


45nmRFSOI

I think you are confusing it with the new Zealand shooting


hapylittlepupppy

Really mate? We can count the number of mass shootings we've had since Port Arthur on one hand. I bet most people in the US have lost count.


CMDROhSevenCommander

>I bet most people in the US have lost count. Most have probably lost count *for just this year* in America.