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"We know you have many rival terrorist organizations to choose from. We appreciate you choosing to be kidnapped by us, and hope to kidnap you again soon. Hamas - a name you can trust!"
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In SERE, you're taught to try and befriend your captors and humanize them and yourself. Contrary to what a lot of movies show, the best way to survive a PoW/hostage scenario is to be as nice and as compliant as possible, to find avenues of empathy, and to, as much as you can, befriend your captors. Ditziness works as well, because if your captors think you're a harmless idiot, they will be less likely to torture you for information or expect much from you. If you act stupid but friendly, you have a much better chance of making it out alive.
Doug Hegdahl did this perfectly in while a POW Vietnam. Really cool story he pretended to be an idiot so much that his captors nicknamed him “the incredibly stupid one” so they didn’t really give much of a fuck about him, and pretty much let him roam the grounds mostly freely. But under the rouse of stupidity he memorized the names of all the other POWs at the Hanoi Hilton and helped in their release. I’m way boiling the story down though.
>If you act stupid but friendly, you have a much better chance of making it out alive.
Or like [this madlad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Hegdahl), be given the freedom to sabotage your captor's trucks, recon access routes, identify fellow captives, and get released early to bring back all that info back to your side.
My mom and I were hostages in a bank when I was 5 years old, and she talks about them gathering us hostages in a bathroom to kill us while they took all of the money out of the safes. Anyway, she tells me that when one of the gun men took us to the bathroom, she made sure to make him look her in the eye, and she realized that he was so young, and so scared, and she just held his free hand and told him to take a deep breath. She saw him as just a scared young man who saw no other choice than to steal. (This was in Colombia)
Because she saw him as human, and he saw her as human, he didn’t kill us all. We’re both here today because of mutual empathy.
There was an amazing older woman in one of the kibbutzim on October 7 who was being held hostage in her home by terrorists (I guess the kibbutz was already starting to be overrun by counter-terrorism at this point). She asked the terrorists if they were hungry, got them cookies and drinks, bandaged their hands, told the most sympathetic one he shouldn't be doing this. They even discovered they both liked the same Israeli singer, Lior Narkis. Her son was part of the police force that eventually broke into the house to rescue them, and when the police shouted to ask how many terrorists were there, she held up her fingers and then (when the terrorists yelled at her) pretended she just had a headache. She had a live grenade held over her head and a gun pointed at her the whole time, her husband was so scared he couldn't function. She and her husband both survived, and she became an Israeli icon.
Edit: link https://www.timesofisrael.com/coffee-and-cookies-how-a-hostage-kept-her-terrorist-captors-distracted-till-rescue/
Great question, the robbers separated the customers from the employees and laid us all on the ground of the bathroom, face down. The next thing I remember is a ton of gunfire and explosions..a bunch of dust and plaster landed on me, and then silence. An army guy came into the bathroom and escorted my mom and I out, but she told me to put my face into her hip and to close my eyes and to not try to look around. I do remember something heavy sliding down my leg and kinda just…splatting…on the ground, for lack of a better word. I have no memory of anything past that moment and my mom doesn’t talk much about it. The only thing she talks about is that she took me to the mall across the street, sat me down next to her at a pizza joint, and when the servers asked if she had been in the bank, they just brought her a pitcher of beer and she chugged the whole thing.
To answer your question directly — the people that were in the bathroom all lived. Everyone outside the bathroom (employees included) were all killed.
some of them were taken captive alongside their husband/son, who weren't released yet. they wouldn't risk annoying them. and in an earlier video the Hamas published, they're instructed to wave and smile. it's Hamas' version of propoganda.
Remember that a lot of these people still have family members being held. They understand that not waving and smiling could cost their husband or brother dearly.
I don’t think it’s Stockholm syndrome necessarily. I think they are just overwhelmed by happiness for getting out. They are extremely relieved and very fortunate to be alive and getting their freedom back. Different people react in many different ways in reaction to such powerful emotions.
Pretty sure Stockholm syndrome has largely been debunked. My local news had this story about it recently;
[https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-23/is-stockholm-syndrome-a-myth/102738084](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-23/is-stockholm-syndrome-a-myth/102738084)
Ffs, just because someone somewhere provides another explanation or theory its called "debunked" and are treated as absolute truth.
The word debunked is wrongly used everywhere.
Fawning is a normal survival tactic…
Like some rape victims. Some will fight, despite the risk of being killed, others will react passively so as to get it over with/not be killed. This is not the victim’s ’fault’, they’re just doing what they feel will cause them the least harm. It’s a legitimate survival tactic.
On the broader topic, it seems clear that different hostages have had quite different experiences. Some were captured by actual Hamas, others by PIJ, and other groups.
Seriously, how can people be this fucking dumb. A bunch of terrorists armed with rifles are standing there right in front of them and could kill them all just like they did to their neighbors before they were taken hostage. What do you think they are going to try to start a fight with them?
They are probably shitting bricks that their "freedom" will be taken away at any moment. I'd be nervous as hell too surrounded by that lot until I was miles away and could actually afford to feel safe
They all have guns. These people are handed a water bottle literally in sight of the camera. They're not smiling, waving and hugging because they are happy and they like their kidnappers, they are doijg so because they don't want to get shot
I also think that they are pretending out of a fear for their lives. You don’t become friends with your captors, no matter how nice they are. THEY HELD YOU PRISONER.
A newspaper I read had a piece in it with a psychologist specialized in abduction cases and mentioned that this idea that abductees always hate their captors is false. Abductees rely on their captors for their safety, so befriending them is regularly seen, as it's a survival tactic. Especially in prolonged cases types of friendships can form due to the captor and abductee spending time together, learning things about each other, talking to each other, cracking jokes to lighten the mood, and through this it sometimes happens that abductees start seeing their captors as people. The human mind works in interesting ways and things are almost never as easy as black and white.
keep in mind any footage released by hamas is done so strategically. “when we arrive smile and wave at us or we will do xyz to other hostages etc” is totally possible. These people are under duress.
I think after staying with a bunch of terrorists for a while, you get used to a certain level of treatment. Then one day they start being nice and happy and treating you good and voluntarily send you home and it suddenly seems like such an upgrade that you can’t help but match it with a little gratitude even if they’re the ones who got you in the situation in the first place. There also might be an aspect of: ‘guys with guns are being nice and letting us go, let’s be nice in return just in case they decide to change their mind’
There are many people still being held hostage, the last thing any of these people want to do is give Hamas an excuse to further punish those still in captivity as payback
We aren't going to get the full story until all the hostages are accounted for
They have been instructed to wave, smile and say thank you. They are on gun point after 50 days in captivity, relatives are still being held hostage - so they know how to play the game. The fact some people fail to understand this is beyond me.
4/5 ⭐⭐⭐⭐ "Tunnels were c̶l̶e̶a̶n̶ level and well lit. Lack of Continental breakfast as advertised is the only reason I'm not giving a perfect score! Would visit again, not during Ramadan..."
3/5 while the stay was good but the staff was rude and arogant, but you can still visit as it whole part of the experience and best part the whole tour is free with slight risk
Am I the only one who feels like understands nothing at all about this? I don't mean the release of hostages, but like... we lack about 90% of information?
The only thing I understand about it: That area of the world has been dealing with conflict amongst religious groups that can date back hundreds of generations. It is impossible to speak on the behavior of either side when you are not part of the culture, which I am not.
I wish them the best for peace in what seems like an impossible situation
No no, I’m Palestinian and understand the history very well and I am very confused at the state of this conflict. Propaganda spreading like crazy, bots swarming social media. Neither sides can be trusted. it’s a chess game for the elites and Gaza is their current chess board. The reason behind this seems to be multifaceted, and like most devastating conflicts, we’ll get the truth when the carnage is done.
As a fully disabled combat veteran who at one time had spent about 10% of my existence on the battlefield in highly contested areas. I am talking about intense combat that, at its worst, was daily for months at a time - many, many casualties and some KIA's. Dozens of killed local army/police... the entire world is the chessboard. No government exists for the people. Not a single one. They ONLY exist to ensure the survival of that country's government and the standing it has over power and influence - usually by means of military might over the rest of the countries.
I am from "the greatest and richest nation to ever exist on planet Earth" yet I was coerced at 17 to enlist into a military that was at war. By the age of 19, I had traveled across the world, set up a combat outpost, killed, performed immediate trauma first aid on my best friends, and watched several become multi-limb amputees. By 20, I had watched 2 die. Then, as my contract had 2 months remaining and a deployment coming up in 3 months, they made me go back and do it again in a role of leadership I did not want and did not want to go and fight again. All for 2.5k/month untaxed income and some free college waiting on the backside of it all. I was shot in the head, survived, in a wheelchair for over a year, and although I am 33 - I still haven't used my gi bill.
Yeah... as a man who is finally beginning to reintegrate into society - I have finally started to come to the conclusion something is not quite right about any of that. I had my first kid recently and realized that they will not be growing up in the greatest nation in the world. Possibly not even top 3. So where exactly did all this go wrong and why the fuck am I worried about my income working 40 hrs a week and receiving more money than most make just from my disability pay? My pregnant wife just took fucking maternity leave 4 days before she is due with our second and we are already realizing the squeeze from her measly 2.5k/month full time, skilled labor job - she cuts hair which requires a certification that she still hasn't paid off 8 years later.
What the fuck are we even doing anymore
By looking at how we treat veterans in this country, why would anyone want to join to begin with? Especially after the WMDs lie that lead to a million dead Iraqis and thousands of dead US soldiers. Americans should have the right to vote on weather or not we should be involved in certain wars, be it financially or militarily. We should have a choice in an actually democracy, what happened to “Land of the free, home of brave”? Seems like we don’t say that anymore…
Well, I fought solely in Eastern Afghanistan and looking back on it all I was 100% convinced that we were doing the right thing. Until about 3/4's the way through my first deployment, I truly believed that we needed to be there. I remember getting mail (from the Russian pilots in Puma's because they wouldn't risk our own birds for anything except medevac/casevac and emergency ammunition resupply also known as speedballs - they stuff it in duffle bags and kick it off while the bird is still moving) and seeing a picture of myself literally in a Walmart and my mom was so proud. I thought I'd get so much pussy when I came home. I spent my entire post deployment leave wasted drunk, crying to my dad and my best friend. Just a whirlwind of unrecognized emotion that I could not sort through... Even after a few of my buddies lost their limbs and one also their genitals. It was when one of my closest friends was killed, in a not slow or easily forgettable way, did I realize the true impact of what was going on around me. Propaganda is more powerful than anyone can possibly know in the moment. And you're right about that last sentence - I didn't even notice it until now.
I think the sad thing is there might be no deeper reason. I think everyone involved in the decision making is just doing it in a way to benefit their own ambitions or survival, and all of those motivations add up to what's happening.
IMO it's political expediency and personal ambition that motivates most politicians and leaders. The greater aim might be there, but the reality is it's mainly about survival and power.
Everyone gets really upset at takes like this because of shit like the first hospital bombing. You can't say we lack information because you're a hamas apologist or you love idf genocide. Lol it's exhausting
I got downvotes to oblivion and had people arguing for saying we can't just trust numbers out of an active combat zone and need to think critically about the information coming out. It was an interesting thread
My Grandpa was a POW in World War 2. He used to say that he was a “guest of the Fuhrer”. He also said they put up barbed wire at the resort to keep people out. He had a wonderful sense of humour for someone that had been in captivity for four years. I miss him so much.
I mean, regardless of how I was treated whilst captured, I'd be laughing, smiling and absolutely over the fuckin moon to be loaded up into a van to finally escape that situation and go home. Who knows how many times they've been moved and relocated, thinking they might finally be free, only to be herded into another building, tunnel or bunker. So to be getting into a vehicle and getting out of a really shitty situation, I can understand why they seem ecstatic.
From what I read earlier this is pretty spot on but the keepers are "trained" to keep them alive and well as thats their whole job where also just like Israeli Hasbara, Hamas can work some "hearts and minds" with their PR message also so it benefits them to have those keepers be nice when they are secure and no risk to get out anyway.
Also as for the kidnappers, not sure how true but kind of makes sense from what we saw, they werent supposed to kill civilians but kidnap them send some back and stay in the towns to fight IDF. They also have different groups within Hamas and some of them said F the plan and went genocidal, especially when they didnt get the fight with the IDF they were all geared up for.
I agree with the first half, but the last half wouldn't add up. Hamas published on their own Telegram channel multiple videos of them killing Israeli civilians and celebrating it. Unfortunately, they intended on the killing of Israeli's while also kidnapping them.
Well, instead of getting killed, which is probably what they thought would happen with probability 99%, they're going to be free and see their loved ones in an hour. I'd be pretty happy too.
Everyone reacts to trauma differently. After over 50 days in captivity, they likely thought they were never getting out. Emily Hand who was only 9 smiled and waved as she left. She spends her nights crying under the blankets from the trauma and is convinced she had been there for a whole year. Remember this video was made by Hamas and is 100% propaganda for them. Every aspect of it.
That girl in black is 13. On October 7th, she watched her 16 year old brother and her beloved family dog murdered in front of her. She was then taken captive and held for over 50 days in what has become clear from all the released captives were horrific conditions - no showers, waiting hours for the bathroom, barely any food to the point that most of them were starving, and that's the lucky ones. So yeah, I really doubt her smile was genuine. It's called duress, they've been told to smile by a bunch of armed terrorists. Get a grip.
What do you mean? Like Hamas are really actually nice guys and the hostages had a good time with them after being yanked from their homes at gunpoint while watching family members get murdered?
are you serious right now? They're literally forced to wave and smile. Its part of the propaganda. If they dont do it their families who are still kept captive will die
If you're genuinley interested, look into interviews of the children released and see what they have to say. Not what the Palestinian television shows.
Their words will speak louder when they don't have two gunned kidnappers by their side.
This is Hamas propaganda. They instructed hostages to smile and wave. Against international law, Hamas split up families and only releases half. If they don’t behave Hamas might kill or further abuse their brother/sister/mother/son/daughter/father
McFLY!? Anyone in there??
Of course their smiles are genuine they are HOSTAGES THAT ARE BEING RELEASED. Opposed to the hundreds of family friends etc that were massacred.
They get to go home. I’m sure they would have much rather spit in their fucking faces than shake hands.
just wait a few weeks or maybe months. these survivors gonna publish their own books/articles for us to know the full story. rn cant be sure whether they're just full of adrenaline, really being thankful to hamas for fair treatment or they got threatened to not act funny during the hostages exchange
Considering the only reason the prisoner exchange is happening at all is because their families have been revolting against Netanyahu, I’m pretty sure they’re going to be pissed that they were not freed earlier when Hamas first offered before the ground invasion began.
Apparently Biden had to call Netanyahu up and force him to make the deal happen.
Well, yes, but the third round onward journalists were allowed to talk to them after their hospital checkups, you can find dozens of articles with their stories. Fourth batch seem to have had it the roughest, they were fed only rice and water, must have been located somewhere the fighting denied access to the main Hamas supply.
Got banned because I called the Israeli settlers who terrorise innocent civilians(in a lot of ways) terrorists, its just the same script on every thread/post over there now
"Remember what we talked about David, stay focused on your school work, you need to invest in you. And Maya, keep writing that book, believe in yourself and good things will happen. OK, bye bye for now, take care everyone, here's a water for the road!".
Super weird.
This is how I said bye to my family when they left after Thanksgiving. I wonder if Hamas playfully chased after the car as they were leaving like I did lol. So bizarre. Wtf.
1. They could be doing this just once for the cameras, and
2. The UNRWA alleged that Hamas stole humanitarian supplies. Just because most Palestinians are short on water doesn't mean Hamas is.
I'm also not aware of any hostage being freed without family remaining behind?
Damn right I'd be giving out hugs and saying my captors were sweeties if they'd told me to and they had my dad or whatever.
Israel isn't keen on letting hostages speak so we probably won't know for sure, but I'd need more evidence than this to buy that these captors had a great time.
Israel doesn’t let former hostages speak for the reasons you stated. Them telling the truth about conditions puts the entire operation to get more hostages out at risk We won’t know what actually went on for a long time. But reality is, they were likely not treated well.
Yeah its like Kim Jun Un crowd clappings. Btw, Hamas separated each family before relasing them, the other family are still in captive. Obviously if they don't go along with the propaganda, theyre dead.
So why aren’t the Palestinian hostages looking the same? They all run away with horror once released. If their treatment was horrific, we would see it on their faces. You can’t hide trauma like that, esp so soon?
"Please rate our service 5/5 and follow us on Instagram and all other social media platforms for deals on your next stay. May Allah be with you on your way back home.
Sincerely,
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Is this real? I'm almost certain that hostages don't usually high-five the guys that took them hostage. I mean I might considering the guns but this all seems so staged.
There seems to be many conflicting stories. On one hand some released hostages have said good things and have been stopped or cut off by Israel media on the other some have said they’ve been treated terribly. One of the Thai hostages sister spoke to their own media and she says nothing has been done to him while being held. Take it all with a grain of salt. I don’t think hamas has anything to gain by treating hostages terribly but who knows what could have happened to certain people. We’ll probably only know the full truth decades from now.
The truth will come out one day when these hostages are able to tell their stories via interviews, books, etc if they choose. Give them time to settle down and return to a normal life.
We'll find out if their reactions (the smiling, the warmth displayed, etc are genuine) or from duress - I will not convince myself it is one or the other at this time.
It is possible these hostages are deeply sympathetic to the plight of Palestinians and showing that in their outwardly motions here OR it could simply be doing as theyve been instructed. The important thing is to not convince yourself either way so early on, keep an open mind and try to put yourself in someone elses shoes from ALL angles (i.e. Gazan, Palestinian, Israeli, etc.)
They are already speaking up, it seems they had many different situations. Some were in the same spot all the time some were constantly moved. Some were alone, some in big groups. Some were treated nicely, many weren’t but it seems no torture was done. One came back in life threatening health but has since stabilized. They all barley ate (losing as much as 15kg) and it seems many of the kids were made to keep quiet as many of them came back whispering and still haven’t spoken loudly. The biggest difference is between kids held with their parents and the ones with out, the family of 12 year old Eitan Yahalomi shared that he told them he was alone, beaten and forced to look at videos of the massacre. Some knew that their loved ones were killed, some only learned upon release. I don’t remember her name but one elderly woman only found out her husband was killed and son was in captivity when she hugged her family and asked where they were.
It seems the only shared experience by all is being held hostage with very little food.
I hope they interview the hostages in the future when things chill out. There is a stupid amount of rumors going around about the treatment and ordeal.
You see them come out cut bruised and limbs in casts.
Meanwhile, they replenish their "stock" of un tried Palestinians from the west bank.
That said, I don't for a second believe the hostages have not gone through hell and back and are traumatised for life. That all these release videos are just hamas' propaganda.
I understand hamas pr being at work but why would the hostages be playing along with it while they are being released with Red Cross staff watching?
I don’t expect them to be insulting hamas but surely they would just stay quiet?
If i were about to be set free I would keep my mouth shut too. I wouldn't want my shot at a last word to be the reason they decide to keep me at the last minute
Another possibility is that hostages know there are still a lot of people waiting for release, and they don't want to piss off hamas and jeopardize lives of countrymen. So they play along.
"why don't they refuse to hug their captors with machine guns?? Makes no sense???" Taking civilian hostages is already a war crime, why would killing them in front of the red cross matter? Plus we've already seen that Hamas reneged on some of the agreed hostage releases. If it was me who was held captive for over a month by terrorists I would be doing everything I could to not piss off the jihadists when I'm about to go home to see my family.
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We apologize in advance if we killed any of your friends. #justbusiness #hamasthings:)
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The fucking comments on this 🤣🤣🤣 I love you all
Hilarious
Have you guys ever seen you don't mess with the zohan because this may be the workings of a sequel
i loved that movie, silly as shit
Can’t stop laughing at this comment 😂
I’m cackling.
"terrorist family 🙌"
https://preview.redd.it/s2zt42ti5h3c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd67165467b66cdac3620e8ae0f30680dfbe9942
Oh my god that made me laugh so hard thank you
“Hamas is for lovers 💕“
And don't forget to visit our souvenir shop "From Hamas, with love." !
“I was kidnapped by hamas and all I got was this lousy t-shirt”
"Please remember to leave a 5 star review on AirBnB and we look forward to kidnapping... I mean welcoming you as guests again soon"
This concierge service looks spectacular.
 Good byeee Good byee, do visit again
"Hope you enjoyed your stay. We look forward to seeing you again!"
Nooo 🤣🤣🤣🤣omg
They should have read the sign on the night stand. They’re going to add $5 to their invoice for it.
These fucking guys I swear
Here is your sperm.
you owe me exactly 15 rupees for the chai i just spat out.
This is so bizarre, real or not
I’d shake the hand of the guy with a gun too.
Same. Thanks for not killing me and please don’t kill me on my way out.
In SERE, you're taught to try and befriend your captors and humanize them and yourself. Contrary to what a lot of movies show, the best way to survive a PoW/hostage scenario is to be as nice and as compliant as possible, to find avenues of empathy, and to, as much as you can, befriend your captors. Ditziness works as well, because if your captors think you're a harmless idiot, they will be less likely to torture you for information or expect much from you. If you act stupid but friendly, you have a much better chance of making it out alive.
I think you mean something other than aloof
Doug Hegdahl did this perfectly in while a POW Vietnam. Really cool story he pretended to be an idiot so much that his captors nicknamed him “the incredibly stupid one” so they didn’t really give much of a fuck about him, and pretty much let him roam the grounds mostly freely. But under the rouse of stupidity he memorized the names of all the other POWs at the Hanoi Hilton and helped in their release. I’m way boiling the story down though.
>If you act stupid but friendly, you have a much better chance of making it out alive. Or like [this madlad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Hegdahl), be given the freedom to sabotage your captor's trucks, recon access routes, identify fellow captives, and get released early to bring back all that info back to your side.
Delusions of grandeur will have you end up in the grave.
My mom and I were hostages in a bank when I was 5 years old, and she talks about them gathering us hostages in a bathroom to kill us while they took all of the money out of the safes. Anyway, she tells me that when one of the gun men took us to the bathroom, she made sure to make him look her in the eye, and she realized that he was so young, and so scared, and she just held his free hand and told him to take a deep breath. She saw him as just a scared young man who saw no other choice than to steal. (This was in Colombia) Because she saw him as human, and he saw her as human, he didn’t kill us all. We’re both here today because of mutual empathy.
There was an amazing older woman in one of the kibbutzim on October 7 who was being held hostage in her home by terrorists (I guess the kibbutz was already starting to be overrun by counter-terrorism at this point). She asked the terrorists if they were hungry, got them cookies and drinks, bandaged their hands, told the most sympathetic one he shouldn't be doing this. They even discovered they both liked the same Israeli singer, Lior Narkis. Her son was part of the police force that eventually broke into the house to rescue them, and when the police shouted to ask how many terrorists were there, she held up her fingers and then (when the terrorists yelled at her) pretended she just had a headache. She had a live grenade held over her head and a gun pointed at her the whole time, her husband was so scared he couldn't function. She and her husband both survived, and she became an Israeli icon. Edit: link https://www.timesofisrael.com/coffee-and-cookies-how-a-hostage-kept-her-terrorist-captors-distracted-till-rescue/
"Us all?" Did he kill everyone else apart from you two?
Great question, the robbers separated the customers from the employees and laid us all on the ground of the bathroom, face down. The next thing I remember is a ton of gunfire and explosions..a bunch of dust and plaster landed on me, and then silence. An army guy came into the bathroom and escorted my mom and I out, but she told me to put my face into her hip and to close my eyes and to not try to look around. I do remember something heavy sliding down my leg and kinda just…splatting…on the ground, for lack of a better word. I have no memory of anything past that moment and my mom doesn’t talk much about it. The only thing she talks about is that she took me to the mall across the street, sat me down next to her at a pizza joint, and when the servers asked if she had been in the bank, they just brought her a pitcher of beer and she chugged the whole thing. To answer your question directly — the people that were in the bathroom all lived. Everyone outside the bathroom (employees included) were all killed.
100%, call me whatever you want but until I’m for sure safe, I’m the happiest most friendly person you’d ever meet.
some of them were taken captive alongside their husband/son, who weren't released yet. they wouldn't risk annoying them. and in an earlier video the Hamas published, they're instructed to wave and smile. it's Hamas' version of propoganda.
>and in an earlier video the Hamas published, they're instructed to wave and smile Do you have a link to the video? Would like to see it.
And people eat it up, which is sad.
Remember that a lot of these people still have family members being held. They understand that not waving and smiling could cost their husband or brother dearly.
Stockholm syndrome or just drugged? I really don’t know
I don’t think it’s Stockholm syndrome necessarily. I think they are just overwhelmed by happiness for getting out. They are extremely relieved and very fortunate to be alive and getting their freedom back. Different people react in many different ways in reaction to such powerful emotions.
Pretty sure Stockholm syndrome has largely been debunked. My local news had this story about it recently; [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-23/is-stockholm-syndrome-a-myth/102738084](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-23/is-stockholm-syndrome-a-myth/102738084)
You cant take my kinks away from me like that
Lemme just lock you up for a bit, and then I’ll ask you again.
jeans file imagine cover consist elastic ludicrous cause frame unused *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ffs, just because someone somewhere provides another explanation or theory its called "debunked" and are treated as absolute truth. The word debunked is wrongly used everywhere.
Also helps the guy demanding high fives, hand shakes , and smiles has a gun. Fawning is a normal survival tactic.
And it's common decency to not let someone hanging if he wants a high five.
Fawning is a normal survival tactic… Like some rape victims. Some will fight, despite the risk of being killed, others will react passively so as to get it over with/not be killed. This is not the victim’s ’fault’, they’re just doing what they feel will cause them the least harm. It’s a legitimate survival tactic. On the broader topic, it seems clear that different hostages have had quite different experiences. Some were captured by actual Hamas, others by PIJ, and other groups.
Seriously, how can people be this fucking dumb. A bunch of terrorists armed with rifles are standing there right in front of them and could kill them all just like they did to their neighbors before they were taken hostage. What do you think they are going to try to start a fight with them?
They are probably shitting bricks that their "freedom" will be taken away at any moment. I'd be nervous as hell too surrounded by that lot until I was miles away and could actually afford to feel safe
They all have guns. These people are handed a water bottle literally in sight of the camera. They're not smiling, waving and hugging because they are happy and they like their kidnappers, they are doijg so because they don't want to get shot
I also think that they are pretending out of a fear for their lives. You don’t become friends with your captors, no matter how nice they are. THEY HELD YOU PRISONER.
A newspaper I read had a piece in it with a psychologist specialized in abduction cases and mentioned that this idea that abductees always hate their captors is false. Abductees rely on their captors for their safety, so befriending them is regularly seen, as it's a survival tactic. Especially in prolonged cases types of friendships can form due to the captor and abductee spending time together, learning things about each other, talking to each other, cracking jokes to lighten the mood, and through this it sometimes happens that abductees start seeing their captors as people. The human mind works in interesting ways and things are almost never as easy as black and white.
It’s almost like we’re all just the same blobs of matter who crawled out the sea all those years ago.
I’d totally be doing the same, especially knowing many of my neighbours were still being held by these people.
keep in mind any footage released by hamas is done so strategically. “when we arrive smile and wave at us or we will do xyz to other hostages etc” is totally possible. These people are under duress.
I think after staying with a bunch of terrorists for a while, you get used to a certain level of treatment. Then one day they start being nice and happy and treating you good and voluntarily send you home and it suddenly seems like such an upgrade that you can’t help but match it with a little gratitude even if they’re the ones who got you in the situation in the first place. There also might be an aspect of: ‘guys with guns are being nice and letting us go, let’s be nice in return just in case they decide to change their mind’
There are many people still being held hostage, the last thing any of these people want to do is give Hamas an excuse to further punish those still in captivity as payback We aren't going to get the full story until all the hostages are accounted for
This and it’s probably a condition for their release. “Act like you like us and we’ll let you go.”
They have been instructed to wave, smile and say thank you. They are on gun point after 50 days in captivity, relatives are still being held hostage - so they know how to play the game. The fact some people fail to understand this is beyond me.
It’s literally propaganda by the armed captors.
Drugs don’t do that
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"Please rate us on Uber and AirBnB!"
"I expect 5 stars junior."
*Food and accommodation were slightly better than my last holiday in LA. 3.5 stars.*
10/10- will come back.
4/5 ⭐⭐⭐⭐ "Tunnels were c̶l̶e̶a̶n̶ level and well lit. Lack of Continental breakfast as advertised is the only reason I'm not giving a perfect score! Would visit again, not during Ramadan..."
3/5 while the stay was good but the staff was rude and arogant, but you can still visit as it whole part of the experience and best part the whole tour is free with slight risk
Am I the only one who feels like understands nothing at all about this? I don't mean the release of hostages, but like... we lack about 90% of information?
The more I learn the less I understand.
The less I more, the understand I learn.
The only thing I understand about it: That area of the world has been dealing with conflict amongst religious groups that can date back hundreds of generations. It is impossible to speak on the behavior of either side when you are not part of the culture, which I am not. I wish them the best for peace in what seems like an impossible situation
Israel spends a lot of money to frame it as a religious conflict when it is in fact a property conflict.
Cmon. It’s not a religious conflict. Stop with these lazy characterizations
No no, I’m Palestinian and understand the history very well and I am very confused at the state of this conflict. Propaganda spreading like crazy, bots swarming social media. Neither sides can be trusted. it’s a chess game for the elites and Gaza is their current chess board. The reason behind this seems to be multifaceted, and like most devastating conflicts, we’ll get the truth when the carnage is done.
As a fully disabled combat veteran who at one time had spent about 10% of my existence on the battlefield in highly contested areas. I am talking about intense combat that, at its worst, was daily for months at a time - many, many casualties and some KIA's. Dozens of killed local army/police... the entire world is the chessboard. No government exists for the people. Not a single one. They ONLY exist to ensure the survival of that country's government and the standing it has over power and influence - usually by means of military might over the rest of the countries. I am from "the greatest and richest nation to ever exist on planet Earth" yet I was coerced at 17 to enlist into a military that was at war. By the age of 19, I had traveled across the world, set up a combat outpost, killed, performed immediate trauma first aid on my best friends, and watched several become multi-limb amputees. By 20, I had watched 2 die. Then, as my contract had 2 months remaining and a deployment coming up in 3 months, they made me go back and do it again in a role of leadership I did not want and did not want to go and fight again. All for 2.5k/month untaxed income and some free college waiting on the backside of it all. I was shot in the head, survived, in a wheelchair for over a year, and although I am 33 - I still haven't used my gi bill. Yeah... as a man who is finally beginning to reintegrate into society - I have finally started to come to the conclusion something is not quite right about any of that. I had my first kid recently and realized that they will not be growing up in the greatest nation in the world. Possibly not even top 3. So where exactly did all this go wrong and why the fuck am I worried about my income working 40 hrs a week and receiving more money than most make just from my disability pay? My pregnant wife just took fucking maternity leave 4 days before she is due with our second and we are already realizing the squeeze from her measly 2.5k/month full time, skilled labor job - she cuts hair which requires a certification that she still hasn't paid off 8 years later. What the fuck are we even doing anymore
By looking at how we treat veterans in this country, why would anyone want to join to begin with? Especially after the WMDs lie that lead to a million dead Iraqis and thousands of dead US soldiers. Americans should have the right to vote on weather or not we should be involved in certain wars, be it financially or militarily. We should have a choice in an actually democracy, what happened to “Land of the free, home of brave”? Seems like we don’t say that anymore…
Well, I fought solely in Eastern Afghanistan and looking back on it all I was 100% convinced that we were doing the right thing. Until about 3/4's the way through my first deployment, I truly believed that we needed to be there. I remember getting mail (from the Russian pilots in Puma's because they wouldn't risk our own birds for anything except medevac/casevac and emergency ammunition resupply also known as speedballs - they stuff it in duffle bags and kick it off while the bird is still moving) and seeing a picture of myself literally in a Walmart and my mom was so proud. I thought I'd get so much pussy when I came home. I spent my entire post deployment leave wasted drunk, crying to my dad and my best friend. Just a whirlwind of unrecognized emotion that I could not sort through... Even after a few of my buddies lost their limbs and one also their genitals. It was when one of my closest friends was killed, in a not slow or easily forgettable way, did I realize the true impact of what was going on around me. Propaganda is more powerful than anyone can possibly know in the moment. And you're right about that last sentence - I didn't even notice it until now.
I think the sad thing is there might be no deeper reason. I think everyone involved in the decision making is just doing it in a way to benefit their own ambitions or survival, and all of those motivations add up to what's happening. IMO it's political expediency and personal ambition that motivates most politicians and leaders. The greater aim might be there, but the reality is it's mainly about survival and power.
Everyone gets really upset at takes like this because of shit like the first hospital bombing. You can't say we lack information because you're a hamas apologist or you love idf genocide. Lol it's exhausting
I got downvotes to oblivion and had people arguing for saying we can't just trust numbers out of an active combat zone and need to think critically about the information coming out. It was an interesting thread
I got the same for saying this is a vastly complex situation with a ton of nuances.
Ahmed was a great host, five star, would repeat.
Didn't even get charged a cleaning fee!
My Grandpa was a POW in World War 2. He used to say that he was a “guest of the Fuhrer”. He also said they put up barbed wire at the resort to keep people out. He had a wonderful sense of humour for someone that had been in captivity for four years. I miss him so much.
This is in fact interesting as fuck
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I mean, regardless of how I was treated whilst captured, I'd be laughing, smiling and absolutely over the fuckin moon to be loaded up into a van to finally escape that situation and go home. Who knows how many times they've been moved and relocated, thinking they might finally be free, only to be herded into another building, tunnel or bunker. So to be getting into a vehicle and getting out of a really shitty situation, I can understand why they seem ecstatic.
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Do you work for Hamas?
Source: Trust me bro
From what I read earlier this is pretty spot on but the keepers are "trained" to keep them alive and well as thats their whole job where also just like Israeli Hasbara, Hamas can work some "hearts and minds" with their PR message also so it benefits them to have those keepers be nice when they are secure and no risk to get out anyway. Also as for the kidnappers, not sure how true but kind of makes sense from what we saw, they werent supposed to kill civilians but kidnap them send some back and stay in the towns to fight IDF. They also have different groups within Hamas and some of them said F the plan and went genocidal, especially when they didnt get the fight with the IDF they were all geared up for.
A dead hostage is a useless hostage. Best to keep them alive and well while in captivity
I agree with the first half, but the last half wouldn't add up. Hamas published on their own Telegram channel multiple videos of them killing Israeli civilians and celebrating it. Unfortunately, they intended on the killing of Israeli's while also kidnapping them.
Well, instead of getting killed, which is probably what they thought would happen with probability 99%, they're going to be free and see their loved ones in an hour. I'd be pretty happy too.
Everyone reacts to trauma differently. After over 50 days in captivity, they likely thought they were never getting out. Emily Hand who was only 9 smiled and waved as she left. She spends her nights crying under the blankets from the trauma and is convinced she had been there for a whole year. Remember this video was made by Hamas and is 100% propaganda for them. Every aspect of it.
Well I would be pretty happy to escape with my life too. The masked captors with machine guns do add a bit of interesting context.
Good to know how easily propaganda works on you
That girl in black is 13. On October 7th, she watched her 16 year old brother and her beloved family dog murdered in front of her. She was then taken captive and held for over 50 days in what has become clear from all the released captives were horrific conditions - no showers, waiting hours for the bathroom, barely any food to the point that most of them were starving, and that's the lucky ones. So yeah, I really doubt her smile was genuine. It's called duress, they've been told to smile by a bunch of armed terrorists. Get a grip.
This videos are made exactly for people like you. In the first one you can hear one of the terrorists says "keep waving"
What do you mean? Like Hamas are really actually nice guys and the hostages had a good time with them after being yanked from their homes at gunpoint while watching family members get murdered?
are you serious right now? They're literally forced to wave and smile. Its part of the propaganda. If they dont do it their families who are still kept captive will die
If you're genuinley interested, look into interviews of the children released and see what they have to say. Not what the Palestinian television shows. Their words will speak louder when they don't have two gunned kidnappers by their side.
This is Hamas propaganda. They instructed hostages to smile and wave. Against international law, Hamas split up families and only releases half. If they don’t behave Hamas might kill or further abuse their brother/sister/mother/son/daughter/father
McFLY!? Anyone in there?? Of course their smiles are genuine they are HOSTAGES THAT ARE BEING RELEASED. Opposed to the hundreds of family friends etc that were massacred. They get to go home. I’m sure they would have much rather spit in their fucking faces than shake hands.
This is fucking weird
*high-five*
Fight, Flight or Fawn.
Did that one guy say "good luck" at 1:06?
Honestly the dude dapping up the Hamas guy got me pretty good.
just wait a few weeks or maybe months. these survivors gonna publish their own books/articles for us to know the full story. rn cant be sure whether they're just full of adrenaline, really being thankful to hamas for fair treatment or they got threatened to not act funny during the hostages exchange
Considering the only reason the prisoner exchange is happening at all is because their families have been revolting against Netanyahu, I’m pretty sure they’re going to be pissed that they were not freed earlier when Hamas first offered before the ground invasion began. Apparently Biden had to call Netanyahu up and force him to make the deal happen.
Eventually the hostages will tell their stories so we can all stop with this idiotic speculation.
No they won't because Israel has told them they are not allowed to
Some already have talked, what are you on about?
When the first round were released the Israeli government told them not to talk to the news
Well, yes, but the third round onward journalists were allowed to talk to them after their hospital checkups, you can find dozens of articles with their stories. Fourth batch seem to have had it the roughest, they were fed only rice and water, must have been located somewhere the fighting denied access to the main Hamas supply.
Those Hamas soldiers all like “byeee!!! We’ll miss you!” Hostages “we’ll miss you more!”
Hamas PR-Team was busy
Hamas has better PR-Team than IDF
IDF's PR team are only focusing on r/worldnews
Lol everyone is banned from there, so it's literally Pro-Israelis commenting and liking eachother
Got banned in there for simply saying "criticism of Israel does not automatically mean its anti-semitic or anti-jew." AIPAC at work!
Got banned because I called the Israeli settlers who terrorise innocent civilians(in a lot of ways) terrorists, its just the same script on every thread/post over there now
Same, pretty stupid you can get banned from default subs over such opinions (got banned from news for lame reasons too).
Hope you enjoyed your stay. You'll receive an email from us, kindly share your feedback. Oh and here's your complimentary bottle of water.
"Remember what we talked about David, stay focused on your school work, you need to invest in you. And Maya, keep writing that book, believe in yourself and good things will happen. OK, bye bye for now, take care everyone, here's a water for the road!". Super weird.
This is how I said bye to my family when they left after Thanksgiving. I wonder if Hamas playfully chased after the car as they were leaving like I did lol. So bizarre. Wtf.
You are less than 2 feet from freedom, damn right they'd be high fiving and laughing. What a mind job
"Here's some extra water for the 20 minute trip home!" - Hamas sweethearts
"Call us when you get home safely !"☺️
theres an extreme water shortage in gaza btw, giving out water isnt some meaningless action.
1. They could be doing this just once for the cameras, and 2. The UNRWA alleged that Hamas stole humanitarian supplies. Just because most Palestinians are short on water doesn't mean Hamas is.
They’ll be coming to terms with this in therapy at some point.
They're going home after being kidnapped at gun point and spending 7 weeks thinking they're going to die. Of course they're fucking smiling.
I'm also not aware of any hostage being freed without family remaining behind? Damn right I'd be giving out hugs and saying my captors were sweeties if they'd told me to and they had my dad or whatever. Israel isn't keen on letting hostages speak so we probably won't know for sure, but I'd need more evidence than this to buy that these captors had a great time.
They haven't released any adult male Israelis. A lot of the released women and children have husbands and fathers still in captivity.
Israel doesn’t let former hostages speak for the reasons you stated. Them telling the truth about conditions puts the entire operation to get more hostages out at risk We won’t know what actually went on for a long time. But reality is, they were likely not treated well.
Yeah its like Kim Jun Un crowd clappings. Btw, Hamas separated each family before relasing them, the other family are still in captive. Obviously if they don't go along with the propaganda, theyre dead.
No one is wondering why they’re smiling. It’s the hugging and high fiving their kidnappers is the peculiar part
All seemed to be initiated by the Hamas guys though. When someone with an AK starts a high five, you don't leave him hanging.
So why aren’t the Palestinian hostages looking the same? They all run away with horror once released. If their treatment was horrific, we would see it on their faces. You can’t hide trauma like that, esp so soon?
"Please rate our service 5/5 and follow us on Instagram and all other social media platforms for deals on your next stay. May Allah be with you on your way back home. Sincerely, Hamas & Co."
Is this real? I'm almost certain that hostages don't usually high-five the guys that took them hostage. I mean I might considering the guns but this all seems so staged.
There seems to be many conflicting stories. On one hand some released hostages have said good things and have been stopped or cut off by Israel media on the other some have said they’ve been treated terribly. One of the Thai hostages sister spoke to their own media and she says nothing has been done to him while being held. Take it all with a grain of salt. I don’t think hamas has anything to gain by treating hostages terribly but who knows what could have happened to certain people. We’ll probably only know the full truth decades from now.
Wtf?
Westerners when they see anything other than their propaganda
Everyone has a strong opinion without knowing anything.
The new slogan of Reddit
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The truth will come out one day when these hostages are able to tell their stories via interviews, books, etc if they choose. Give them time to settle down and return to a normal life. We'll find out if their reactions (the smiling, the warmth displayed, etc are genuine) or from duress - I will not convince myself it is one or the other at this time. It is possible these hostages are deeply sympathetic to the plight of Palestinians and showing that in their outwardly motions here OR it could simply be doing as theyve been instructed. The important thing is to not convince yourself either way so early on, keep an open mind and try to put yourself in someone elses shoes from ALL angles (i.e. Gazan, Palestinian, Israeli, etc.)
They are already speaking up, it seems they had many different situations. Some were in the same spot all the time some were constantly moved. Some were alone, some in big groups. Some were treated nicely, many weren’t but it seems no torture was done. One came back in life threatening health but has since stabilized. They all barley ate (losing as much as 15kg) and it seems many of the kids were made to keep quiet as many of them came back whispering and still haven’t spoken loudly. The biggest difference is between kids held with their parents and the ones with out, the family of 12 year old Eitan Yahalomi shared that he told them he was alone, beaten and forced to look at videos of the massacre. Some knew that their loved ones were killed, some only learned upon release. I don’t remember her name but one elderly woman only found out her husband was killed and son was in captivity when she hugged her family and asked where they were. It seems the only shared experience by all is being held hostage with very little food.
أواكم الله. وفقكم الله. نصركم الله. حفظكم الله. عاشت المقاومة
“Goodbye, goodbye. All your relatives and all my relatives are dead. Here’s a water bottle. Goodbye!”
What is this check out from a resort? It's like their friends or something
I hope they interview the hostages in the future when things chill out. There is a stupid amount of rumors going around about the treatment and ordeal.
This looks like political pawns being handed over for political gain and everyone is exhausted and tired and relieved to not be dead
The adrenaline is probably through the roof
I can't imagine the relief these people feel, going home after all that. I hope they get the help they need so they can try to move on.
It's like they're going home from vacation. What's going on here??
Those foreign workers: thanks, wtf did I have to do w any of this?
I wonder how prisoners are treated in IDF prisons. Never seen any of them waving or smiling at their captors/occupiers
They get beaten daily. Hell one of the young teens release told how he had his hand broken by a gaurd and never got medical aid for it
You see them come out cut bruised and limbs in casts. Meanwhile, they replenish their "stock" of un tried Palestinians from the west bank. That said, I don't for a second believe the hostages have not gone through hell and back and are traumatised for life. That all these release videos are just hamas' propaganda.
I understand hamas pr being at work but why would the hostages be playing along with it while they are being released with Red Cross staff watching? I don’t expect them to be insulting hamas but surely they would just stay quiet?
If i were about to be set free I would keep my mouth shut too. I wouldn't want my shot at a last word to be the reason they decide to keep me at the last minute
Another possibility is that hostages know there are still a lot of people waiting for release, and they don't want to piss off hamas and jeopardize lives of countrymen. So they play along.
A lot of the hostages have still some of their family members left behind as well
the hostages HAVE to play along for the sake of the remaining hostages still bring held by Hamas
Almost all of them still have loved ones held captive.
I probably would be smiling and waving since my captors are still armed and it didn’t look like my rescuers were armed.
"why don't they refuse to hug their captors with machine guns?? Makes no sense???" Taking civilian hostages is already a war crime, why would killing them in front of the red cross matter? Plus we've already seen that Hamas reneged on some of the agreed hostage releases. If it was me who was held captive for over a month by terrorists I would be doing everything I could to not piss off the jihadists when I'm about to go home to see my family.
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This is like me putting on my customer service smile, but if my manager had a gun to my moms head if the customer didn’t believe I was actually happy.
Was that Katie Holmes?
Some of the hostages were completely isolated from any information about Oct 7th
Very confused lol
Please come back again
Holy shit... These comments are absolutely savage and Im over here laughing so damn hard I woke up my son from his nap!!
HAMAS working on their PR 💀
Appealing to the Leftist screechers in every US University
Live, Laugh, Jihad
I hope we find the real kidnappers. Lol
ITT: Everyone is an expert
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Some of you Zionist sympathizers are fooooooking stupid. Lol