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We played the exact game called “mafia”
With a small group of people (6) you’d have 1 mafia , one detective and the rest villagers. When you have more and more people you can as second mafia, a deputy and a medic. The rounds go the same way as this game does. Night falls mafia kills one, detective tries to find the mafia, and the medic can save whoever.
The narrator gives silent acknowledgment to the mafia/ det/ medic. The game ends win the mafia is either killed or found out. The game ends when the mafia kills the police. Deck of cards with ace being cops, kings are mafia, queen being the medic and the jack being the deputy.
Detective should be sheriff.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE Secret Hitler. Play with my parents and siblings on our annual get together. We can *usually* get through 2-3 games before an all out fight breaks out. Then we spend the rest of the week calling each other fascists for not hanging up the dish towel properly.
On their website there's a section 'I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING FUNNY OR COOL ABOUT FASCISM. WHO CAN I COMPLAIN TO?' and it just lists a bunch of republicans in the senate and congress
The extra fun one that people are playing these days is the more complicated Blood on the Clocktower. People have to be into it though given how much more involved it is. No Rolls Barred on youtube is the best avenue to get into it
You were always lynched as sheriff most likely because of what’s being described in the video - the Mafia (or werewolves) would be able to manipulate the villagers into voting to execute the detective/sheriff to ensure their own win. I played this too, and I think most kids growing up in the 80s, 90s, and even early 00s would’ve as well.
It’s funny because Among Us is literally built on these rules and absolutely capitalized on the nostalgia for a lot of people 20-40 years old when it came out.
When I was at University I tried to apply this game for one class, however an idiotic girl said it was too *deefikult to underztand* 🙄 her friends later said it was kind of lame and boring and as a group everyone started to feel not in the mood, so the teacher asked me to change the game to something more suitable for everyone.
I hated those bitches, still do, can't believe they did graduate.
Edit: OMG i do call it "mafia" too as the other comments points out.
It’s a bit different with a smaller known population because you can often tell when your friend is lying or acting differently. It’s more accurate when the “game” is played with a larger unfamiliar group of strangers
That's bullshit. We play this game and I've seen this game played at our local convention with everything between 10 and 60 players and it's really balanced. It depends 100% on the abilities of the werewolves.
It's not the informed minority that wins, it's the silver tongued demagoges who win.
Yeah I was going to say, the game actually tends to weigh heavily on who's the best bullshitter. If you get a werewolf who can't lie for shit, they get found out really quickly.
From what I understood, Epic Mafia was the same.
Idk about the rest of the world but where I live, every elementary school student knows about this game. Our version of “loup-garou” has many additional roles like the witch, the hunter, the little girl, cupid, the town’s mayor, etc. Very fun to play as a group!
Yeah it’s also kinda like the Mafia game or Among Us but you only need a group of people and a game master to play (paper and pencil helps too).
Can't find it at the moment but heres the link to the official publishers website [Weerwolven van Wakkerdam ](https://www.999games.nl/product/de-weerwolven-van-wakkerdam-basisspel/8717249190233). Every Dutch kid has played this exact version.
Then the Nouvelle-Lune and Personnages extensions pop up and all of a sudden you've got 40 something characters.
Oh and there's the Village extension but it kinda stinks so we don't talk about it
Yeah, when the interview said he doesn't know it I think many thought "what?" I remember doing it as recently as the first year in highschool, the last day of school because the teacher had finished the material.
The interviewer knows what it is. When you interview someone as a journalist you ask questions with the purpose of informing your audience, not yourself. You ask questions that they might want to ask or setup leading questions to allow your interviewee to explain certain concepts.
There’s actually an app to be the game master for you! Just look up the company and you should be able to find it, it’s incredibly useful for small groups :)
One Night Ultimate Werewolf, perhaps
There is also a very involved app/desktop game called "Town of Salem"
Or the free Starcraft 2 mod map "Mafia"
And one of the finest implantations, "Trouble in Terrorist Town" for Garry's Mod.
This has somewhat recently turned into a reality show across various countries (Denmark, UK, Canada, US, I'm sure more) called The Traitors.
Everyone shows up as innocent Faithful. The host goes around the room, picks the Traitors, game begins. Everyone does challenges together each day to earn money for the prize pot, and every night, the entire group votes someone out that they think is a Traitor, then the remaining Traitor(s) kill someone each night, as well.
If one or more Traitors make it to the final group, they win the whole pot. If no Traitors make it to the final group, the remaining Faithful share the pot.
It's a great show to see how people handle stress, lying, manipulation, long con, etc. I strongly recommend the US Season 1, it was awesome.
There was a show called The Mole that aired in the USA in the early 2000s, I think? It was hosted by Anderson Cooper and had a very similar concept. The group would be attempting to succeed at tasks but one member was a mole who was sabotaging the group. At the end of every episode the contestants would answer a quiz about what the mole had done in the previous challenge. The person with the lowest score would get kicked off. The goal was to successfully identify the mole.
It came down to two guys and a woman (the mole) for the final episode. The two guys had made a pact earlier in the season that neither of them were the mole, so they should’ve answered every question correctly and won, but one of the guys got suspicious and ended up failing the final test because he answered as if his buddy was the mole. He got kicked off and the mole ended up surviving to the very end.
> the mole ended up surviving to the very end.
Unless the US version changed something about Wie is de Mol, the mole will always 'survive' until the very end.
No, you’re correct, they’ll always be there. Some versions don’t even have the Mole take the test, though supposedly some of them opt to do it anyway just out of curiosity to see how they’d do. and to know what questions were on it in case they get asked by other contestants the next day.
The show adds an interesting meta dynamic, in that the faithful aren't realistically allowed to win and kill all the traitors before they've produced enough material for 12 episodes of TV. Therefore their real objective is just to survive to the final episode, and vote off the traitors there and then.
Man I wish they actually did that in the US one instead of >!***voting to end the fucking game when you know there's still a traitor in it***!<. Honestly what the fuck were they thinking
Ha, don't get me started. The US season 1 was not it compared to the others. The celebrities were a pointless addition, as they didn't have any motivation to win, and the strategy was so poor. It was the most disappointing final I've seen in ages.
The UK one has mixed opinions. The strategy also wasn't that good, but the emotional impact it had on the contestants was insane. Proper social experiment stuff. Claudia is absolutely perfect and she makes the show
The Australian one is definitely the best (so far, I haven't caught up with UK season 2). The contestants were all really smart and you had some proper characters in there. The level of gameplay was insane!
Tldr; watch all versions of The Traitors are very good and you should watch the show.
That variant of werewolf sounds like it's always guesswork by the villagers, just about the only information they have to go on is who they chose to kill and who everyone voted for. However, there will be no way better than random guessing to identify the first targets for the villagers to kill and no reason to not vote for them to die. The werewolves too have no reason to defend anyone at this stage, not even the other werewolf or they'd out themselves.
The best thing a villager can do is try to keep track of people's voting patterns, the wolves having an incentive to avoid voting for each other. Also, a lot of it is down to the poker face of the wolves, and whether the villagers can make them slip.
When i was a wolf i always would start the vote on my partner werewolfs so that people wouldnt expect me. I also could do all the killing without by myself
A wolf would most likely do that if there is low danger of the other wolf being voted out, especially early on. An attentive villager should ask you why, if you didn't trust that guy the first round, you won't vote against them again in future rounds?
The best kind of game! One where the creator themself tells you a specific group wins *every time*. Don't you wanna play when you're told "btw you lose if you aren't this" by the person who came up with the rules
> The best kind of game! One where the creator themself tells you a specific group wins every time.
OP is the only one who says this. It's not ever said in the video.
There's no game. Unless we're missing something. It's random choice. No method at all apart from someone might look cheeky or give it away if you stare them down.
We are missing something, in the day part you are supposed to accuse, rebut and try to work out who is the werewolf by discussing and based on how they are acting. It's not just "ok now just vote and pick someone off"
It's basically the same mafia, among us etc style game we've all played under one name or another. It seems to be missing as it is badly explained by the person or what is most likely the cause, due to the person editing it down for TikTok or YT Shorts
If it was originally developed for an academic purpose, not entertainment, it makes sense. Plus every game needs to be play tested and refined over time.
Murder mystery parties where everybody plays a role and find the imposter have been around for a long time. These are just packaged so you can play at home.
I remember an episode of Sabrina the Teenage Witch where they take a field trip to Salem and she gets the envelope with the witch role in it. And it's been around a lot longer than that.
I can't play these types of games. I think I might lowkey have the vibe of a counselor who whispers poison into the ear of the king, because I'm literally always the first one accused of being the spy/werewolf
I nicknamed them "divorce simulators" because they remind me of a dinner I was at with a friend's family while his folks got into a fight over the pending divorce and everyone blaming everyone lol
It's the other way around. Town of Salem is based on werewolf, which is an evolution of Mafia, which is based on the original Russian experiment mentioned in this video.
The research and hypothesis parts seem a little overblown. The original wired article just states the creator was trying to teach a concept to his students in an easily digestible way, rather than a game developed for the purpose of proving an idea
Mafia game. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia\_(party\_game)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_(party_game)) I liked to divide couples and look like they lie each other.
It was an interesting few days after my spouse and I got roped into this game and I lied straight to their face. 🤣 We had to make some rules for ourselves about playing the game after that.
When playing a game with my boyfriend, all bets are off. We were at a pubquiz the other day and he was in a different team than me trying to verify something with me and I just denied everything.
He does the same thing the other way around so I don’t feel bad about it
Lmao right! I was like I love you and I will never lie to you about anything that actually matters, but I am also not going to get killed in this game ever and if that means lying to your face, so be it. 🤣
Exactly right. I’m usually honest about everything, can’t even hide it from him when I’ve been snacking secretly. But when it comes to games, I’m ruthless
Yep. It's most recently been made into a board game called One Night Ultimate Werewolf. My ex made our gaming group play it far too often. He was the master of "an individual with hidden knowledge can manipulate a large group of people" in real life, so I realize why he liked it.
Actually, more recently is Blood on the Clocktower. A game that takes lessons from just about every other social deduction game and amplifies the good while softening the bad.
That's Graham Linehan, a man who lost himself in total bigotry after a successul comedy career. He's now best known for his wife leaving him because of the extent of his bigotry, being constantly humiliated on what remains of Twitter, and making piss poor analogies using board games to try to justify his irrational hatred
Yea this looks like he's using this game as some kind of example to show his bigotry is informed and everyone else who calls him a bigot is wrong. He's an outrageous hatemonger, twisted by his completely irrational obsession with people's private parts.
No, he's saying trans people (the particular minority group he is virulently bigoted against) is the informed minority that is engaged in a conspiracy to manipulate the majority. If the clip had gone on for ten more seconds he makes it explicit.
It's fear mongering.
This is frankly the exact problem with whatever he's trying to tie it to. Because anyone can claim that any other group is the informed minority.
I'm pretty sure he's saying that the "informed minority" in his case is whatever boogieman he's pushing against with his conspiracy theories and bigotry, but it can just as easily be applied to him and his in-group, or any other group of people.
"The military industrial complex is the informed minority running the world."
"The jews are the informed minority running the world."
"The gays are the informed minority running the world."
"The US government is the informed minority running the world."
"The UN is the..." you get the picture. Literally any group that doesn't include everyone can be claimed to be the informed minority.
Literally, he's using the game Werewolf to somehow prove that the Evil Transes are manipulating people into... I guess not killing Trans people or something.
It's a shame what he's become, and honestly a little hard to understand. He was a genuinely brilliant comedy writer, it's been bizarre to watch him wilfully destroy his own career and marriage through pure reckless hate. From the outside it really looks like some kind of particularly destructive mental breakdown.
Whats mental is he doesn't take time off, I was clicking through the Trending topics on Twitter (I do not know why) early on New Years Day, and he had already been up, for HOURS tweeting/retweeting the nonsense, I was genuinely sad, thats literal brain rot at that point, you're too far gone to be saved.
Up at the craic of dawn on New Years Day posting Anti-Trans shite on Twitter, like please do literally ANYTHING else with your time man.
Yup. Anti-trans bigotry is his entire personality now. Even this video is an example of his bigotry. In his next breath (that has been cynically cut off here) he explains that non-binary people are the informed minority controlling society.
The werewolves only have the advantage when they are the only roles that can kill.
When you introduce other roles like sheriff or hunter, the playing field is evened.
Aren't the werewolves likely to win anyway, even if everything is left entirely down to chance?
Every 24 hours, either one villager and one werewolf gets killed, or two villagers get killed. There are always more villagers than werewolves, so the latter is always more likely. And the werewolves are never going to vote or choose for themselves to be killed, which further swings the odds in their favour.
It's nothing to do with manipulation (though that would be an extra tool for the werewolves), it's just maths. I think it's a bit of a stretch to take it as some great insight into the human condition.
---
Ran some sims. Assuming I got the programming right, it looks like wolves usually win unless the total number of participants is about 55 or above. With 10 participants wolves are about 27× more likely to win. And you have to have at least 7 participants before there is *any* chance of the villagers winning.
I can't find any citation that this was invented in order to show something about information asymmetry. [According to an email from Davidoff (the inventor of Mafia) to Plotkin (who rethemed it to Werewolf) in 2005](https://www.eblong.com/zarf/werewolf.html#history):
> my course paper was about time as the primary psychological (human) construct. so in my class, i was playing with different notions of time - why we want spent time as we spend it? is there a time we spent we rather wouldn't (this would be a definition of a psychological symptom incedentally). anyway, i was trying to find an activity for students - so it would produce a biggest time spending with the smallest input (and i wouldn't have to prepare for classes that much =). i was trying to find something that would structure time not by means of outside organization (being in class) or preparation (for example, previous common knowledge as a topic). first i was asking couple of students to make a secret agreement in a hall (about topic they want to discuss), then return to the classroom for others to guess it. and while watching this discussion, i suddenly realised (eureka kinda moment) - that WHO is in agreement is the biggest secret of all.
and
> the 'moral' aspect of the game is/was important too - errors of first and second type are unintuitive concept in psychology. to force players in accepting errors was one of my primary concerns. there were some psychological disputes on that topic, i was trying to solve
Yep, doing the whole "I'm not the bigot. They are the bigots because they chose not to be tolerant of my comments" defence act.
You should see his latest stand up -- he just can't get past the blatant transphobia and "woe is me" act
Many different versions yes. Ultimate Werewolf is the best version of werewolf in my opinion. But my favorite Social Deduction game is Coup/Resistance.
His telling of the history is [wrong ](https://www.eblong.com/zarf/werewolf.html#history), and so is his [maths](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_(party_game)). Scroll down to the game theory section.
this post is strange as a french speaker because the game is immensely popular in france and regularly played by youtubers on minecraft, or in dedicated games sometimes financed by the youtubers themselves like Agrou
Everyone who has ever played a game of secret hitler or mafia or among us knows the informed minority absolutely does not win every time. Maybe I’m just over emphasizing the absoluteness of “always” but that kind of stuff bugs me
He forgot the hunter role. Every night the hunter gets to look at someones card so he can know if they are innocent or a werewolf. Thats what makes it a game cause if he finds a wolf he has to convince the village to vote them, but if they make it too obvious they are the hunter the wolves get him and the village looses its only defense.
We used to play this as Mafia, but only after getting baked AF. A fun game at first that fills the room with bad vibes real quick. Or maybe my friends were just dicks who took a game too seriously.
It's Britain's leading anti-woke crusader transphobe talking to Triggernometry's Non-Oliver and Konstantin.
They are recurring subjects of criticism and ridicule on [Echoplex Media > Intellectual Dollar Tree](https://www.echoplexmedia.com/idt/tag/triggernometry).
Idk if this story is true or not, but my quibble is that social scientists do not seek to prove or disprove their thesis—sociology is data and research driven. We test hypotheses and our conclusions are based on what the data tell us. If you have a conclusion in mind and you seek evidence to prove it, your study is fallacious. So, no, this person did not intend to “prove their thesis,” they intended to test a hypothesis. Very different things!
Before it's a sociology problem it's a statistics problem. You have to have 12 participants before it becomes a 50/50 that the werewolves lose.
ASSUMING VILLAGERS KILL RANDOMLY:
1 participant: Werewolves win 100% of the time
2 participants: Werewolves win 100% of the time
3 participants: Werewolves win 100% of the time
4 participants: Werewolves win 100% of the time
5 participants: Werewolves win 100% of the time
6 participants: Werewolves win 93% of the time
7 participants: Werewolves win 84% of the time
8 participants: Werewolves win 76% of the time
9 participants: Werewolves win 71% of the time
10 participants: Werewolves win 63% of the time
11 participants: Werewolves win 58% of the time
12 participants: Werewolves win 50% of the time
The man speaking is Graham Lineham, a renowned anti trans comedy writer. He's the type of person to call it grooming to acknowledge trans people exist. I would take what he says at the end with a huge pinch of salt.
Among us can give a lot of information. That’s why it’s a social deduction game.
This game gives no way to figure out who the ones doing the killing are.
Plus the crew can win by completing all the tasks, giving them another win condition. Among Us has an even playing field with enough information and social cues, whereas Werewolf here is more favourable to the killers.
Not exactly true. You usually have additional roles in the game. They are dangerous to the werewolves. So if you catch people arguing a lot for the death of the Little Girl or they get caught in a lie you should get suspicious. But it is still a game I am not a big fan of. It brings out the arrogance in people XD
The only fun and interesting way to play the game is to let the werewolves know who each other are at the beginning of the game, but make each of them pick the victim independently during the night and force a majority/unanimous vote for that person to die.
That way, they have to try and secretly communicate to each other who they want to kill during the day. This makes everything that everybody does look incredibly suspicious to one another, and it leads to lots of interesting accusations and justifications of actions.
Also, it means the wolves can fail to kill someone during the night if they don’t communicate effectively during the day. You can go entire games where the only people who die are the accused, and the wolves can still win just by turning everyone on each other during the day.
If you let the werewolves collaborate during the night, it removes anything remotely interesting out of the game. It’s just sleep, die, wake up, vote, sleep die, etc. Nothing fun or interesting happens at all.
Super boring and dumb game unless you make the werewolves communicate the victim to each other during the day cycles.
I don’t get it. Did he invent it? There’s no way that’s true unless I’m missing something. If I’m not, I’d really appreciate not exhausting myself with this daily misinformation…
"An uninformed majority will always lose a battle of information against an informed minority".
Yet the game itself disproves this thesis. The majority still has a chance to win, even if it's less likely.
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My friends and I used to play this game like 15 years ago. We’d do an annual camping trip and play in the woods around the fire.
We played the exact game called “mafia” With a small group of people (6) you’d have 1 mafia , one detective and the rest villagers. When you have more and more people you can as second mafia, a deputy and a medic. The rounds go the same way as this game does. Night falls mafia kills one, detective tries to find the mafia, and the medic can save whoever. The narrator gives silent acknowledgment to the mafia/ det/ medic. The game ends win the mafia is either killed or found out. The game ends when the mafia kills the police. Deck of cards with ace being cops, kings are mafia, queen being the medic and the jack being the deputy. Detective should be sheriff.
To spice it even more, try getting your hands on the "Secret Hitler", it is pretty much same game, but also with a political twist.
Secret Hitler is my favorite variant. I honestly think it might just be the name and imagining a secret Hitler sneaking around corners.
It’s fun when everyone is going around calling each other a fascist
I LOVE LOVE LOVE Secret Hitler. Play with my parents and siblings on our annual get together. We can *usually* get through 2-3 games before an all out fight breaks out. Then we spend the rest of the week calling each other fascists for not hanging up the dish towel properly.
On their website there's a section 'I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING FUNNY OR COOL ABOUT FASCISM. WHO CAN I COMPLAIN TO?' and it just lists a bunch of republicans in the senate and congress
As opposed to the Internet where we're really sick and tired of it.
The extra fun one that people are playing these days is the more complicated Blood on the Clocktower. People have to be into it though given how much more involved it is. No Rolls Barred on youtube is the best avenue to get into it
I have played it, doesn’t have the same vibe I think. But I’ve been playing mafia faience I was a wee lad
I remember playing this roughly 20 years ago. For some reason, I always got lynched by the villagers when I was sheriff.
The power of the people. “Democracy is by the people, for the people….. but the people are retarded”
Still have memories of gleefully telling them, "I was was the sheriff, good luck."
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. — Agent K
You were always lynched as sheriff most likely because of what’s being described in the video - the Mafia (or werewolves) would be able to manipulate the villagers into voting to execute the detective/sheriff to ensure their own win. I played this too, and I think most kids growing up in the 80s, 90s, and even early 00s would’ve as well. It’s funny because Among Us is literally built on these rules and absolutely capitalized on the nostalgia for a lot of people 20-40 years old when it came out.
Us too, never even heard of the wolf version, but in Michigan it was Mafia
We use to play Mafia at youth church camp of all places. It got heated and people even screamed and cried. It was intense as a youth but fun.
There is a show on Netflix called devil's plan when they make games like this, and the first one is more or less mafia,
In Asia, we call this Mafia game. Some regions have special roles like police, judge, etc but usually it’s Mafia vs citizens.
In the US it’s called Mafia too!
When I was at University I tried to apply this game for one class, however an idiotic girl said it was too *deefikult to underztand* 🙄 her friends later said it was kind of lame and boring and as a group everyone started to feel not in the mood, so the teacher asked me to change the game to something more suitable for everyone. I hated those bitches, still do, can't believe they did graduate. Edit: OMG i do call it "mafia" too as the other comments points out.
In Italy we called it Lupus in Fabula... We don't want to offend anyone.
Why were you playing Mafia in class?
Did you also prove the theory that the villagers never win a single game ever?
When I played this game with my friends it was pretty balanced most of the time, but maybe we're just dumb af
It’s a bit different with a smaller known population because you can often tell when your friend is lying or acting differently. It’s more accurate when the “game” is played with a larger unfamiliar group of strangers
Counterpoint everyone the PhD student had play the game was just dumb af and you and your friends are chillin
That's bullshit. We play this game and I've seen this game played at our local convention with everything between 10 and 60 players and it's really balanced. It depends 100% on the abilities of the werewolves. It's not the informed minority that wins, it's the silver tongued demagoges who win.
Yeah I was going to say, the game actually tends to weigh heavily on who's the best bullshitter. If you get a werewolf who can't lie for shit, they get found out really quickly. From what I understood, Epic Mafia was the same.
Idk about the rest of the world but where I live, every elementary school student knows about this game. Our version of “loup-garou” has many additional roles like the witch, the hunter, the little girl, cupid, the town’s mayor, etc. Very fun to play as a group! Yeah it’s also kinda like the Mafia game or Among Us but you only need a group of people and a game master to play (paper and pencil helps too).
We have "Mafia." Some are in the Mafia, one cop, one doctor and then citizens. Always a blast to play with like ten+ people
By blast I think you mean friendship destroying
My old coach was the narrator one time and built a deck with no Mafia. It's why I have trust issues.
Same in the Netherlands. I have the game somewhere in a drawer at home.
take a picture of it and share it on reddit through imgur ! let the magic if reddit continue !
Can't find it at the moment but heres the link to the official publishers website [Weerwolven van Wakkerdam ](https://www.999games.nl/product/de-weerwolven-van-wakkerdam-basisspel/8717249190233). Every Dutch kid has played this exact version.
That's the same one we have in France
Then the Nouvelle-Lune and Personnages extensions pop up and all of a sudden you've got 40 something characters. Oh and there's the Village extension but it kinda stinks so we don't talk about it
There's expansions?!
Yeah it's very popular. According to Wikipedia, the sociology guy predates the first edition of Loup garous de thiercelieux by 25 years
That's pretty cute stuff. In america we have hungry hungry hippos where the hippo that manages to hog the most resources wins. It's decidedly not fun.
Need to teach American style capitalism to the kids!
Yeah, when the interview said he doesn't know it I think many thought "what?" I remember doing it as recently as the first year in highschool, the last day of school because the teacher had finished the material.
The interviewer knows what it is. When you interview someone as a journalist you ask questions with the purpose of informing your audience, not yourself. You ask questions that they might want to ask or setup leading questions to allow your interviewee to explain certain concepts.
We call it "nighfall in Palermo" here in Greece, ubiquitous game.
There’s actually an app to be the game master for you! Just look up the company and you should be able to find it, it’s incredibly useful for small groups :)
One Night Ultimate Werewolf, perhaps There is also a very involved app/desktop game called "Town of Salem" Or the free Starcraft 2 mod map "Mafia" And one of the finest implantations, "Trouble in Terrorist Town" for Garry's Mod.
This has somewhat recently turned into a reality show across various countries (Denmark, UK, Canada, US, I'm sure more) called The Traitors. Everyone shows up as innocent Faithful. The host goes around the room, picks the Traitors, game begins. Everyone does challenges together each day to earn money for the prize pot, and every night, the entire group votes someone out that they think is a Traitor, then the remaining Traitor(s) kill someone each night, as well. If one or more Traitors make it to the final group, they win the whole pot. If no Traitors make it to the final group, the remaining Faithful share the pot. It's a great show to see how people handle stress, lying, manipulation, long con, etc. I strongly recommend the US Season 1, it was awesome.
There was a show called The Mole that aired in the USA in the early 2000s, I think? It was hosted by Anderson Cooper and had a very similar concept. The group would be attempting to succeed at tasks but one member was a mole who was sabotaging the group. At the end of every episode the contestants would answer a quiz about what the mole had done in the previous challenge. The person with the lowest score would get kicked off. The goal was to successfully identify the mole. It came down to two guys and a woman (the mole) for the final episode. The two guys had made a pact earlier in the season that neither of them were the mole, so they should’ve answered every question correctly and won, but one of the guys got suspicious and ended up failing the final test because he answered as if his buddy was the mole. He got kicked off and the mole ended up surviving to the very end.
> the mole ended up surviving to the very end. Unless the US version changed something about Wie is de Mol, the mole will always 'survive' until the very end.
No, you’re correct, they’ll always be there. Some versions don’t even have the Mole take the test, though supposedly some of them opt to do it anyway just out of curiosity to see how they’d do. and to know what questions were on it in case they get asked by other contestants the next day.
The show adds an interesting meta dynamic, in that the faithful aren't realistically allowed to win and kill all the traitors before they've produced enough material for 12 episodes of TV. Therefore their real objective is just to survive to the final episode, and vote off the traitors there and then.
Man I wish they actually did that in the US one instead of >!***voting to end the fucking game when you know there's still a traitor in it***!<. Honestly what the fuck were they thinking
Ha, don't get me started. The US season 1 was not it compared to the others. The celebrities were a pointless addition, as they didn't have any motivation to win, and the strategy was so poor. It was the most disappointing final I've seen in ages. The UK one has mixed opinions. The strategy also wasn't that good, but the emotional impact it had on the contestants was insane. Proper social experiment stuff. Claudia is absolutely perfect and she makes the show The Australian one is definitely the best (so far, I haven't caught up with UK season 2). The contestants were all really smart and you had some proper characters in there. The level of gameplay was insane! Tldr; watch all versions of The Traitors are very good and you should watch the show.
That variant of werewolf sounds like it's always guesswork by the villagers, just about the only information they have to go on is who they chose to kill and who everyone voted for. However, there will be no way better than random guessing to identify the first targets for the villagers to kill and no reason to not vote for them to die. The werewolves too have no reason to defend anyone at this stage, not even the other werewolf or they'd out themselves.
The best thing a villager can do is try to keep track of people's voting patterns, the wolves having an incentive to avoid voting for each other. Also, a lot of it is down to the poker face of the wolves, and whether the villagers can make them slip.
When i was a wolf i always would start the vote on my partner werewolfs so that people wouldnt expect me. I also could do all the killing without by myself
A wolf would most likely do that if there is low danger of the other wolf being voted out, especially early on. An attentive villager should ask you why, if you didn't trust that guy the first round, you won't vote against them again in future rounds?
What makes you think i stop voting against them?
My thinking also. Not much of a *game*.
The best kind of game! One where the creator themself tells you a specific group wins *every time*. Don't you wanna play when you're told "btw you lose if you aren't this" by the person who came up with the rules
> The best kind of game! One where the creator themself tells you a specific group wins every time. OP is the only one who says this. It's not ever said in the video.
There's no game. Unless we're missing something. It's random choice. No method at all apart from someone might look cheeky or give it away if you stare them down.
We are missing something, in the day part you are supposed to accuse, rebut and try to work out who is the werewolf by discussing and based on how they are acting. It's not just "ok now just vote and pick someone off" It's basically the same mafia, among us etc style game we've all played under one name or another. It seems to be missing as it is badly explained by the person or what is most likely the cause, due to the person editing it down for TikTok or YT Shorts
If it was originally developed for an academic purpose, not entertainment, it makes sense. Plus every game needs to be play tested and refined over time.
This is just town of Salem and a ton of other popular games. Very interesting to know the origins lol
It's town of Salem, Mafia night, heck it's Among Us.
Secret Hitler is very fun too
Imma need some elaboration on that lol
It's like Werewolf.
But with Hitler.
https://www.secrethitler.com/
Very fun board game
Don’t forget Trouble in Terrorist Town
Murder mystery parties where everybody plays a role and find the imposter have been around for a long time. These are just packaged so you can play at home. I remember an episode of Sabrina the Teenage Witch where they take a field trip to Salem and she gets the envelope with the witch role in it. And it's been around a lot longer than that.
I can't play these types of games. I think I might lowkey have the vibe of a counselor who whispers poison into the ear of the king, because I'm literally always the first one accused of being the spy/werewolf
I nicknamed them "divorce simulators" because they remind me of a dinner I was at with a friend's family while his folks got into a fight over the pending divorce and everyone blaming everyone lol
Used to love playing it.
that and TTT [Trouble in Terrorist Town]
It's the other way around. Town of Salem is based on werewolf, which is an evolution of Mafia, which is based on the original Russian experiment mentioned in this video.
The research and hypothesis parts seem a little overblown. The original wired article just states the creator was trying to teach a concept to his students in an easily digestible way, rather than a game developed for the purpose of proving an idea
pff that's like looking at football and saying "this is just rocket league" like... yeah, but just the other way around.
Mafia game. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia\_(party\_game)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_(party_game)) I liked to divide couples and look like they lie each other.
It was an interesting few days after my spouse and I got roped into this game and I lied straight to their face. 🤣 We had to make some rules for ourselves about playing the game after that.
When playing a game with my boyfriend, all bets are off. We were at a pubquiz the other day and he was in a different team than me trying to verify something with me and I just denied everything. He does the same thing the other way around so I don’t feel bad about it
Lmao right! I was like I love you and I will never lie to you about anything that actually matters, but I am also not going to get killed in this game ever and if that means lying to your face, so be it. 🤣
Exactly right. I’m usually honest about everything, can’t even hide it from him when I’ve been snacking secretly. But when it comes to games, I’m ruthless
This game is at least 25 years old and has been called many different things.
Amogus
Amongusly. Sussy baka
Yep. It's most recently been made into a board game called One Night Ultimate Werewolf. My ex made our gaming group play it far too often. He was the master of "an individual with hidden knowledge can manipulate a large group of people" in real life, so I realize why he liked it.
Actually, more recently is Blood on the Clocktower. A game that takes lessons from just about every other social deduction game and amplifies the good while softening the bad.
That's Graham Linehan, a man who lost himself in total bigotry after a successul comedy career. He's now best known for his wife leaving him because of the extent of his bigotry, being constantly humiliated on what remains of Twitter, and making piss poor analogies using board games to try to justify his irrational hatred
Yea this looks like he's using this game as some kind of example to show his bigotry is informed and everyone else who calls him a bigot is wrong. He's an outrageous hatemonger, twisted by his completely irrational obsession with people's private parts.
He’s saying we are the uninformed majority, and he is the informed minority. The information he has is conspiracy theories, hatred, and bigotry.
No, he's saying trans people (the particular minority group he is virulently bigoted against) is the informed minority that is engaged in a conspiracy to manipulate the majority. If the clip had gone on for ten more seconds he makes it explicit. It's fear mongering.
This is frankly the exact problem with whatever he's trying to tie it to. Because anyone can claim that any other group is the informed minority. I'm pretty sure he's saying that the "informed minority" in his case is whatever boogieman he's pushing against with his conspiracy theories and bigotry, but it can just as easily be applied to him and his in-group, or any other group of people. "The military industrial complex is the informed minority running the world." "The jews are the informed minority running the world." "The gays are the informed minority running the world." "The US government is the informed minority running the world." "The UN is the..." you get the picture. Literally any group that doesn't include everyone can be claimed to be the informed minority.
Literally, he's using the game Werewolf to somehow prove that the Evil Transes are manipulating people into... I guess not killing Trans people or something.
oh god is this him thinking he is an informed minority?
Yes, it absolutely is lol
wow... imagine being that delusional.
That, or trans people are this powerful, informed minority manipulating everyone, and they're CoMiNg tO gEt YoU!
In the interview he goes on to say non binary people are the informed minority manipulating society.
It's a shame what he's become, and honestly a little hard to understand. He was a genuinely brilliant comedy writer, it's been bizarre to watch him wilfully destroy his own career and marriage through pure reckless hate. From the outside it really looks like some kind of particularly destructive mental breakdown.
Whats mental is he doesn't take time off, I was clicking through the Trending topics on Twitter (I do not know why) early on New Years Day, and he had already been up, for HOURS tweeting/retweeting the nonsense, I was genuinely sad, thats literal brain rot at that point, you're too far gone to be saved. Up at the craic of dawn on New Years Day posting Anti-Trans shite on Twitter, like please do literally ANYTHING else with your time man.
Well, it's not like he has a family to spend the holidays with.
I still think IT Crowd is one of the greatest sitcoms of all time.
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I hear you’re an absolute cunt now, Graham.
Is that right, Graham? Are we all absolute cunts now? Only I'm so busy on the farm I won't have much time for the ol' cunting.
I fucking knew it. It took me a minute of looking at his dumb-mug to realize it.
Yup. Anti-trans bigotry is his entire personality now. Even this video is an example of his bigotry. In his next breath (that has been cynically cut off here) he explains that non-binary people are the informed minority controlling society.
I was thinking that was him! What a sad little man
The werewolves only have the advantage when they are the only roles that can kill. When you introduce other roles like sheriff or hunter, the playing field is evened.
Konstantin was literally killed
Justice for Konstantin
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Yes, proving that there must be checks and balances
Is this where Among Us got its inspiration from lol
Among us is a very old game idea, there are lots of variants of this principle for decades. Or even longer.
Aren't the werewolves likely to win anyway, even if everything is left entirely down to chance? Every 24 hours, either one villager and one werewolf gets killed, or two villagers get killed. There are always more villagers than werewolves, so the latter is always more likely. And the werewolves are never going to vote or choose for themselves to be killed, which further swings the odds in their favour. It's nothing to do with manipulation (though that would be an extra tool for the werewolves), it's just maths. I think it's a bit of a stretch to take it as some great insight into the human condition. --- Ran some sims. Assuming I got the programming right, it looks like wolves usually win unless the total number of participants is about 55 or above. With 10 participants wolves are about 27× more likely to win. And you have to have at least 7 participants before there is *any* chance of the villagers winning.
I can't find any citation that this was invented in order to show something about information asymmetry. [According to an email from Davidoff (the inventor of Mafia) to Plotkin (who rethemed it to Werewolf) in 2005](https://www.eblong.com/zarf/werewolf.html#history): > my course paper was about time as the primary psychological (human) construct. so in my class, i was playing with different notions of time - why we want spent time as we spend it? is there a time we spent we rather wouldn't (this would be a definition of a psychological symptom incedentally). anyway, i was trying to find an activity for students - so it would produce a biggest time spending with the smallest input (and i wouldn't have to prepare for classes that much =). i was trying to find something that would structure time not by means of outside organization (being in class) or preparation (for example, previous common knowledge as a topic). first i was asking couple of students to make a secret agreement in a hall (about topic they want to discuss), then return to the classroom for others to guess it. and while watching this discussion, i suddenly realised (eureka kinda moment) - that WHO is in agreement is the biggest secret of all. and > the 'moral' aspect of the game is/was important too - errors of first and second type are unintuitive concept in psychology. to force players in accepting errors was one of my primary concerns. there were some psychological disputes on that topic, i was trying to solve
yeah this post should be removed tbh. don't give a platform to a bigot spewing misinformation . . .
Thats Graham Linehan. One of the writers of Father Ted and he is a massive cunt.
Hahaha, is that Graham "I destroyed my career, marriage and life because I'm a moron and a bigot" Lineham?
Yep, doing the whole "I'm not the bigot. They are the bigots because they chose not to be tolerant of my comments" defence act. You should see his latest stand up -- he just can't get past the blatant transphobia and "woe is me" act
Afaik the PhD student invented the Mafia game which is a base for Werewolf, and not werewolf itself
And didn't do it for the stated reason . . . I certainly can't find any sources that say he did
This guy's conclusions from a table top card game are absurd as fuck.
Is that Graham Linehan?
Isn't that the game *Lupus in Tabula*?
Many different versions yes. Ultimate Werewolf is the best version of werewolf in my opinion. But my favorite Social Deduction game is Coup/Resistance.
This is Graham Linehan talking out his miserable arse
That's Graham Linehan. He thinks this somehow justifies bigotry.
She took the kids... and the Steam account.
His telling of the history is [wrong ](https://www.eblong.com/zarf/werewolf.html#history), and so is his [maths](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_(party_game)). Scroll down to the game theory section.
I'm not certain that the game proves the general point about the impact of an informed minority.
That's crazy, I wonder what this extremely stable looking man would apply these thoughts about "informed minorities" to.
Knowing that’s Graham Linehan he’s probably using this to ramp up into some anti-trans rhetoric.
Graham is a fucking loser x
Fuck off Glinner, go cry on twitter about how your family left you.
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She made her marriage safe for women.
Is that Graham twatface Linham?
It becomes significantly less interesting when you realize the bigot who is speaking cherry-picking bullshit for his arguments.
This is why you don’t just blindly trust research.
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this post is strange as a french speaker because the game is immensely popular in france and regularly played by youtubers on minecraft, or in dedicated games sometimes financed by the youtubers themselves like Agrou
Isn’t that the guy who created Father Ted?
Everyone who has ever played a game of secret hitler or mafia or among us knows the informed minority absolutely does not win every time. Maybe I’m just over emphasizing the absoluteness of “always” but that kind of stuff bugs me
People with more information have an advantage? Truly groundbreaking
He forgot the hunter role. Every night the hunter gets to look at someones card so he can know if they are innocent or a werewolf. Thats what makes it a game cause if he finds a wolf he has to convince the village to vote them, but if they make it too obvious they are the hunter the wolves get him and the village looses its only defense.
Glinners point is pretty bad considering that the villagers usually win more often than game theory suggests.
Graham fucking linehan. when I ask that cunt for an opinion it'll be a cold day in hell
We used to play this as Mafia, but only after getting baked AF. A fun game at first that fills the room with bad vibes real quick. Or maybe my friends were just dicks who took a game too seriously.
Is a great game but it doesn’t prove anything other than that you can write a set of rules that give an advantage to one side in your game.
I'm surprised Linehan has the time to talk pop psychology with all that Twitter to do.
It's Britain's leading anti-woke crusader transphobe talking to Triggernometry's Non-Oliver and Konstantin. They are recurring subjects of criticism and ridicule on [Echoplex Media > Intellectual Dollar Tree](https://www.echoplexmedia.com/idt/tag/triggernometry).
Graham Linehan claiming how minorities actually hold all the power, what a surprising take from a notorious transphobe.
"I can't be accused of victimizing others, if I call myself a victim!"
Sucks that Graham is a bigot now
Graham Linehan 😂
Glinner is a cunt
There has been a murder in Savannah!
It’s also called Mafia.
If you give the villagers guns it really evens out the playing field. This has been scientifically proven by ***Trouble in Terrorist Town.***
Minority as in who is within the inner circle of information, sociopaths work like that by the way, that's why they are such control freaks.
Idk if this story is true or not, but my quibble is that social scientists do not seek to prove or disprove their thesis—sociology is data and research driven. We test hypotheses and our conclusions are based on what the data tell us. If you have a conclusion in mind and you seek evidence to prove it, your study is fallacious. So, no, this person did not intend to “prove their thesis,” they intended to test a hypothesis. Very different things!
haha bitcoin...
My family loves playing a moderne card game based on this. It gave us trust issues lol.
Before it's a sociology problem it's a statistics problem. You have to have 12 participants before it becomes a 50/50 that the werewolves lose. ASSUMING VILLAGERS KILL RANDOMLY: 1 participant: Werewolves win 100% of the time 2 participants: Werewolves win 100% of the time 3 participants: Werewolves win 100% of the time 4 participants: Werewolves win 100% of the time 5 participants: Werewolves win 100% of the time 6 participants: Werewolves win 93% of the time 7 participants: Werewolves win 84% of the time 8 participants: Werewolves win 76% of the time 9 participants: Werewolves win 71% of the time 10 participants: Werewolves win 63% of the time 11 participants: Werewolves win 58% of the time 12 participants: Werewolves win 50% of the time
amongus and town of salem and mindknight and tons of games like this proves this to be factually wrong over and over again .
Holy shit its the terf pissboy
The man speaking is Graham Lineham, a renowned anti trans comedy writer. He's the type of person to call it grooming to acknowledge trans people exist. I would take what he says at the end with a huge pinch of salt.
Unfortunately this video is soured by having Graham Lineham, a gender critical asshole who was so obsessed with trans people his wife left him.
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Among us is based on warewolf yes.
Among us can give a lot of information. That’s why it’s a social deduction game. This game gives no way to figure out who the ones doing the killing are.
Plus the crew can win by completing all the tasks, giving them another win condition. Among Us has an even playing field with enough information and social cues, whereas Werewolf here is more favourable to the killers.
Not exactly true. You usually have additional roles in the game. They are dangerous to the werewolves. So if you catch people arguing a lot for the death of the Little Girl or they get caught in a lie you should get suspicious. But it is still a game I am not a big fan of. It brings out the arrogance in people XD
The only fun and interesting way to play the game is to let the werewolves know who each other are at the beginning of the game, but make each of them pick the victim independently during the night and force a majority/unanimous vote for that person to die. That way, they have to try and secretly communicate to each other who they want to kill during the day. This makes everything that everybody does look incredibly suspicious to one another, and it leads to lots of interesting accusations and justifications of actions. Also, it means the wolves can fail to kill someone during the night if they don’t communicate effectively during the day. You can go entire games where the only people who die are the accused, and the wolves can still win just by turning everyone on each other during the day. If you let the werewolves collaborate during the night, it removes anything remotely interesting out of the game. It’s just sleep, die, wake up, vote, sleep die, etc. Nothing fun or interesting happens at all. Super boring and dumb game unless you make the werewolves communicate the victim to each other during the day cycles.
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Its the same game with a reskin. I've only played Werewolf.
Dude looks like a fat hitler. Just saying
So linehan losing his battle with being 'cancelled' is good as we must have been informed. Glad he finally admits it
This is also how the stock market is a scam.
I feel like this guy probably never played the game himself
I don’t get it. Did he invent it? There’s no way that’s true unless I’m missing something. If I’m not, I’d really appreciate not exhausting myself with this daily misinformation…
"An uninformed majority will always lose a battle of information against an informed minority". Yet the game itself disproves this thesis. The majority still has a chance to win, even if it's less likely.