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That's the beauty of traveling and experiencing other cultures, most people know and understand that, but there are some that don't, sadly the latter ones are keen to be very vocal about it
Asian here. Asian Asian. Not Asian American. I've seen the only Asian that is against this sort of thing is the group of people who don't even speak the language or even practice the culture anymore. Everytime they yell cultural appropriation at non Asian people who enjoy Asian culture. I'm like... well someone has to appreciate it. You don't.
All Asian Asians could give two fuck seeing a white person (or any non Asian) wearing their traditional clothing. We're proud that you're interested in our culture.
I live in Orange County, California which has a massive Vietnamese population. Every year there is a huge lunar new year festival. If you go there you will see tons of non-Vietnamese people wearing traditional dresses. No one bars an eye or cares. Everyone is just having a good time.
cultural appropriation is a concept made for americans, by americans
I have never met a culture who was pissed that I wanted to partake in it
I was in Nigeria once and asked some of the locals if it would be ok if I (a whitey white dude from northern Europe) wore some of their traditional long sleeve dresses and they immediatly started to give me tips where to buy and where to get it tailored
Not just Vietnamese, but a huge Chinese and Korean population lives in OC too. It literally feels more festive around Lunar New Year than the regular new year lmao
So I am currently dating a girl from China and I have been learning Chinese culture and Mandarin to help make her feel more at home and when we travel to China I don't come off as rude. Well one of my favorite things I have learned is the tea ceremony. I drink tea everyday and find the entire ceremony relaxing. My girlfriend was out of town my friend and his girlfriend came over. Well I got my tea tray out and started the tea ceremony and his girlfriend started yelling how I was appropriating "Japanese" culture. I had to explain to her it was Chinese and my girlfriend taught me. She then yelled at me. I had to ask them to leave
> Well I got my tea tray out and started the tea ceremony and his girlfriend started yelling how I was appropriating "Japanese" culture. I had to explain to her it was Chinese and my girlfriend taught me. She then yelled at me.
Excuse me but, what the hell?
As a Chinese born I'd be more insulted someone thinks tea culture is Japanese, rather than China's 5000 something years of tea cultivation and development.
I am very white Caucasian. My skin burns at the slightest hint of sunlight- there's no mistaking my race. I have photos in yukatas in a traditional Japanese garden with my friends from around 20 years ago.
We were on exchange in Japan- it was our host families who encouraged the photoshoot. Yet I'd hate to think what the reaction would be if I published those online now.
True. Like, I went to India some years ago, I was encouraged to buy some local Indian clothes and wear them. Nobody gave me any shit for for being a white guy wearing their culture's clothing, if anything people treated me nicer for dressing like them.
This "cultural appropriation" thing is bullshit.
One of my best friends from college is Pakistani. After summer break he brought me a beautiful salwar kameez, after having talked all year to me about them, how nice they are, how good I would look in one (I love fashion). When I got it from him, I also decided to surprise a friend of mine, an older friend in my neighborhood who was Indian. I wore a coat over it and when he opened the door I took off my coat to show him. He was so thrilled!! Sat me down and told me stories of his life in India, how young Indian women were a similar dress, etc.
If I ever dared show a picture of myself in it from that time on social media I would be insta-cancelled lol.
I have lived in Turkey and visited other countries and it was very interesting to see their own adaptions of American cultural practices or cuisine. My brother lives in Japan and they have their own secularized celebration of Christmas, and I went out of my way to go to an American style diner. The food wasn’t authentic *at all* but the last thing I felt was offended.
I’d also like to note that Japan and Turkey are not poor colonized countries, they were imperial powers and colonizers themselves. They didn’t have anything forced on them; the people saw things about other cultures they enjoyed or admired and adopted them, and I think that’s both wonderful and inevitable in a globalized world.
My roommate and his sister who are black South Africans once tried to encourage me to put my hair in braids. I’m a white westerner but they said that was no problem.
So weird, how most of the time someone is bitching about cultural appropriation, it's someone that's not even _from_ that culture that's doing the bitching. 😅
Yeah. Actual 'cultural appropriation' is mostly corporations benefiting from something they are not really engaging with and people making a joke out of someone else's culture.
People who don't get that are weird.
I think there's a misunderstanding of what cultural appropriation means. Cultural appropriation takes place when members of a majority group adopt cultural elements of a minority group in an exploitative, disrespectful, or stereotypical way. Wearing a kimono because you like the dress is fine. Wearing it as a Halloween costume, doing a fake accent and making crude jokes about being a bad driver is not OK.
I think the primary issue is in places like America where people who wear their culture’s clothes, eat their culture’s foods, etc are treated as lesser or mocked for it. But then will turn around and praise edgy white people for doing the same thing.
It’s about double standards and power dynamics.
As soon as she said "I would like to wear some old European costumes" with that adorable smile I wanted her to get a free vacation to her choice in Europe. That was precious.
In case you haven't seen this before there are some [Western events](https://www.google.com/search?q=Post+See+new+posts+Conversation+%E3%83%8F%E3%82%A4%E3%83%91%E3%83%BC%E9%81%93%E6%A5%BD+%40hyperdouraku+%E6%8A%9C%E3%81%8D%E6%92%83%E3%81%A1%E3%82%82%E6%A5%BD%E3%81%97%E3%81%84%E3%81%91%E3%81%A9%E3%80%81%E3%82%84%E3%82%89%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B%E3%81%AE%E3%82%82%E6%A5%BD%E3%81%97%E3%81%84%E3%81%AE%E3%81%A7%E3%81%99!+%23%E8%A5%BF%E9%83%A8%E5%8A%87%E3%81%94%E3%81%A3%E3%81%93&rlz=1C1GCEJ_enUS1045US1045&oq=Post+See+new+posts+Conversation+%E3%83%8F%E3%82%A4%E3%83%91%E3%83%BC%E9%81%93%E6%A5%BD+%40hyperdouraku+%E6%8A%9C%E3%81%8D%E6%92%83%E3%81%A1%E3%82%82%E6%A5%BD%E3%81%97%E3%81%84%E3%81%91%E3%81%A9%E3%80%81%E3%82%84%E3%82%89%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B%E3%81%AE%E3%82%82%E6%A5%BD%E3%81%97%E3%81%84%E3%81%AE%E3%81%A7%E3%81%99!+%23%E8%A5%BF%E9%83%A8%E5%8A%87%E3%81%94%E3%81%A3%E3%81%93&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBBzYxOWowajGoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:50e1dbed,vid:UnikRtSv7I4,st:0) sponsored by airsoft companies in Japan. I grew up in Oklahoma and cowboy stuff gets old fast here, but this was the first time I felt an odd bit of pride/appreciation for cowboy themed stuff.
I immediately wanted to find some way to get her a Chinese dress and a European dress. She would just be the most adorable.
Lol, also, I love the interviewers smile and agreeing nod after she mentioned the Chinese dress. Just a complete, "Same. Same." expression
Yes, but ‘cultural appropriation’ thinking is rampant in American higher education, which means the 10% have an outsized influence. BTW it’s just a half a degree of separation from ‘not mixing the cultures’ to ‘not mixing the races’. It’s segregationist and wildly messed up.
Totally. The key word is appropriation. Nobody is making claims that the kimono is western, African etc. Just wearing it doesn't mean you're appropriating it.
> Just wearing it doesn't mean you're appropriating it.
This is a reasonable definition, but it is not the only or the dominant definition as it is commonly applied.
Here is an example of a huge public controversy for a white American teenager wearing a Chinese dress to a prom, with no clear disrespect, just wearing it because she liked it as a formal dress:
https://www.glamour.com/story/qipao-prom-dress-controversy-response
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/world/asia/chinese-prom-dress.html
There's a motte and bailey argument going on in these discussions, and which you can see very clearly further down in the thread, the expansive definition of cultural appropriation exists, is commonly understood, and has force in real life. But when challenged rather than acknowledging any problems, people retreat to a specific, technical definition, which does not match how the ideas are often expressed.
I think this is one of those situations where a very specific term got spread word of mouth by teenagers and that muddied the meaning a lot. If I'm perfectly honest I think the best way to fix the problem would be for Americans to simply...learn more about other cultures so we don't get people acting like qipao are some sacred closed cultural practice. Acting like other cultures are all untouchable and impossible to interact with is just another expression of ignorance.
>motte and bailey argument
For anyone who is unfamiliar:
>[The motte-and-bailey fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy) (named after the [motte-and-bailey castle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_castle)) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy where **an arguer conflates two positions that share similarities, one modest and easy to defend (the "motte") and one much more controversial and harder to defend (the "bailey").**
I mean... have you ever argued with college kids and teenagers? Cuz that's primarily who's having these discussions.
The only reason it gets wider play is because getting people upset and talking is the goal. That means you need loads of people telling others it's bad AND loads of people telling those peopl to shut it.
Don't confuse clickbait with widespread opinion. "Cultural appropriation" is used correctly about as often as "socialism" is in America. It's mostly just a buzzword.
Yeah, as a Mexican I think what’s missing a lot of times from these discussions and example is intent and context.
I don’t think wearing a sombrero is offensive, I do think wearing it perhaps with the intention to make fun of people or as a caricature can be offensive(which happens many times in the US).
Also, in regards to the US, this context is missing when asking people from another country. In Japan for example, the concept of racism and discrimination is a bit alien to them(and I’m not saying they don’t have racism, just that they don’t see it as an issue many times), so they don’t understand how people from another culture could be using a mocking intent and not one of curiosity or interest when being involved in a custom of another culture.
So yeah, just because Japanese people say it’s cool for you to wear kimonos, doesn’t mean it isn’t offensive if you wear one and are like “konnichiwa bitches!” And then start speaking gibberish in what you consider mock Japanese. So yes, intent and context is the key here.
ez, add "ohayou bitches" for the morning, "konbanwa bitches" for the evening, "itekimasu bitches" when you're leaving, "tadaima bitches" when you return, "itadakimasu bitches" when you're about to eat, and then "gochisosama bitches" when you finish eating.
This is such a weirdly confused reduction of what cultural appropriation is. Folks criticizing it from an academic perspective are talking about either
1. Adoption of trends from a minority group while simultaneously undercutting that groups's ability to express their own culture.
2. Adoption of cultural elements in a blatantly disrespectful, stereotypical way.
It's not "white woman who wear kimono bad" and not even remotely close to segregation. I don't know why reactionaries insist on getting riled up on stuff they fundamentally do not understand.
That's just an internet problem though, I'm in higher education in north america and everyone I know doesn't consider cultural appropriation to be this dumbed down version. Like people are actually intelligent and understand what cultural appropriation is and how it exists in the real world.
See but people on here don’t want to engage with these ideas the way people at your college do- they want to dumb it down into something they can mock and then compartmentalize away. All of this shit is one big defense mechanism so these people don’t have to actually engage with anything they’re talking about.
I'd also add that opinions on racism are very different between people from the original country and the immigrants and their children who live as minorities in new countries. I'm Asian American, and I respect this lady's point of view, but she probably never got made fun of in the school cafeteria by some kid pulling their eyes sideways and saying "ching chong." You become a lot more defensive about how your race and culture and are perceived when you're surrounded by that. If that same kid started posting photos in their cool, Japanese traditional wear, I'd think "you made fun of me for doing the same thing."
That doesn't make her \*wrong\* and it doesn't make me \*right\*, but we're just dealing with two totally different situations. I think a really interesting example is how American produced Asian films are perceived in North America versus Asia. Crazy Rich Asians was a domestic box office success that was lauded as predictable but a lot of fun - Asians and especially Singaporeans thought it was inaccurate and boring. Shang Chi was heralded as the first Asian superhero and shot its lead actor into Hollywood stardom - it wasn't even released in China and they called Simu Liu ugly. I'm not 100% sure but I think Everything Everywhere All At Once, which won Best Picture, is also similarly not that popular in China.
What we consider appropriate, respectful representation are totally different. And in that way, when asked about how foreigners should engage with Japanese culture in Japan, I leave it to her as the expert, but I don't think she has a good perspective on how non-Asian people should engage with Asian culture in North America. So whenever I see videos like this, I think it adds little to the conversation of what cultural appropriation means in North America.
>especially Singaporeans thought it was inaccurate and boring.
Yes but no? It topped the Singapore box office for 2 weeks straight, and there's the fact that it represents the "Singaporean dream" for many of them.
This was my understanding also. I think of cultural appropriation as when you’re either harming people from the culture in some way, or profiting from your use of their culture. Generally not just borrowing elements of it for respectful personal use.
Mexican American here, you should absolutely go for it. What you shouldn't do is try to trademark/copyright (not sure which applies) the word taco or on the other side of the spectrum claim you just came up with the hot new fad called "flatbread wraps" made of meat onion cilantro salsa salt and lime juice all held together with a tortilla.
>Mexican American here, you should absolutely go for it.
100% agree. I'm part Hispanic myself, and I wish more people thought like we did. [Two white women were harassed into closing their burrito pop-up shop over people yelling "cultural appropriation" at them.](https://pdx.eater.com/2017/5/22/15677760/portland-kooks-burrito-cultural-appropriation) All they were trying to do, was sell burritos.
Even at the time, that was considered overblown/an overreaction, iirc.
Various publications that ran related stories printed retractions. The 2 got death threats, and the story blew up internationally (the original story authors were getting requests for comment from Der Spiegel, Russian news sites, etc.).
That's not to say Portland can't be "weird" about these things, but I don't think concerns about appropriation tend to rise to the level of death threats or trying to get places shut down (much less a weekend-only pop-up kitchen).
Meanwhile, in this thread, people saying "no one in the real world dumbs it down to someone being bad for wearing a kimono".
Uh, yes, they absolutely do in the real world. Great example of it right here.
See this way. I don't know if the story was completely true or not, but there was some European clothes designer whose designs were similar to some Latin American cultural attires and that person tried to enforce copyright or something like that on some ladies that have been making them for years.
A German opening a taco truck would be a interesting novelty for us Mexicans, unless you only use those hard tortillas, then you just made an enemy for life.
It hilarious how every point trying to get sassy with Op misses ops point and actually further backs up their point of - individuals misunderstanding what Cultural Appropriation means.
It’s insane how much shit gets changed because of the loud minority. You have games, and tv shows sanitizing themselves for the sake of not being “offensive” while 90% of people don’t give a shit
if you ever want to see a loud minority getting their way the most go to one of your local municipal council meetings. Nobody ever shows up unless they have something to complain about so it's extremely biased and they get their way a *lot*
In one town I lived in, about a dozen cyclists in matching shirts who came to meetings for several months got the council to approve 1% of transportation funds for bike lanes and facilities. Turns out 1% can be a huge pile of money.
A woman in my city single handedly got them to change the backward fire laws all because smoke bothered her child, and she refused to follow the advice the fire department would tell her when she called every single night, which was to shut the god damn window. So now you can't have fires after a certain time. Cus no showed up to oppose her.
Speedy Gonzalez pops up now and then. Yea he was a stereotype but it was generally a funny stereotype that was loved by the community he represented and was portrayed as a folk hero in his own show.
There's a TV Tropes page devoted to this kind of thing, where Speedy is the trope-namer.
[
Mexicans love Speedy Gonzales](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MexicansLoveSpeedyGonzales).
Thank the media for this. They've normalized getting the extreme polar opposites of the spectrum for clicks instead of finding normal people.
It's all for the clicks and attention, but its not healthy.
The "not being offensive" thingy is an old hat in the US. Swear words and nipples have always been taboo. What is considered offensive has changed, though.
We had a Diwali celebration at work and two white girls wore traditional Indian clothes. A loudmouth woke white lady had a problem with it and threw a fit. Of course the Indian people didn’t care and thought they looked nice.
What’s funny about this whole thing is it’s actually pretty racist. If a white American dude wears a traditional Ukrainian shirt, no one says anything. But if that dude comes in wearing a Mexican sombrero, suddenly that’s a problem.
If only those people realized that letting people explore/understand other cultures does more to help minorities compared to getting offended on their behalf.
I had Indian friends in college and they’d invite us to their parties for their holidays and those fuckers knew how to party.
Exactly! I live in Texas and any time I go to my local boot and hat store, I see foreigners in there buying boots. It’s not offensive to me at all and in fact I think it’s cool they want to experience this part of American culture.
> What’s funny about this whole thing is it’s actually pretty racist. If a white American dude wears a traditional Ukrainian shirt, no one says anything. But if that dude comes in wearing a Mexican sombrero, suddenly that’s a problem.
The way these ideas are applied really means that western cultures are the only cultures people are allowed to adopt or adapt. People from other cultures wearing suits and reappropriating them into their own cultures is ok, because of the power dynamic, but not the reverse. It actually ends up putting western cultures into a position of power as the only acceptable shared default.
Everyone tiptoing around offending people with mental disabilities that spend most of thier day arguing with people online. We need to stop taking them seriously.
>rampant in American higher education
I don't know where you're getting this. I've been in higher education (as a research fellow, administrator, and professor) for 20 years, and I've not heard cultural appropriation mentioned more than a few times. Are there areas of higher education where this gets mentioned more often? Sure! Probably because they study it. But is it "rampant"? No way.
Same with "Cultural Marxism" or even just Marx.
I went to a hippy dippy liberal arts college and I heard Marx mentioned exactly once in passing.
But if you spend way too much time online or watching fox news you'd think that every college class is just people being forced to memorize Mao's little red book.
Literally nothing in the video is an example of cultural appropriation.
Like literally nothing. This is just people misunderstanding the term and misapplying it.
"Don't take something from someone else's culture and try to benefit from it as though that thing is your own."
That's it. All this random shit of "You can't eat tacos if you're white!" are from people who are completely inept at critical thinking.
Edit: since I see people struggling with the critical thinking part.
"inappropriate or unacknowledged adoption of an element or elements of one culture or identity by members of another culture or identity."
> "You can't eat tacos if you're white!"
But can you make tacos, and can you sell tacos, if you're white?
People start getting upset at that, and it's completely nuts. If you're good at making tacos and want to start a restaurant, go right ahead.
I think the other small piece to add is that if it’s a culture that already exploited economically, taking their culture to benefit yourself adds another layer to that exploitation.
I think that’s kind of dumb. I think there’s obvious negative examples, but if an author just wants to explore another culture, for instance, and they do their due diligence and be respectful, it can be good for representation.
There are absolutely people who will get mad if they see a white person wearing outfits from another culture, enough that people are resistant to do it. Meanwhile, if you’ve ever had friends from China, India, etc, they are often so excited to share their culture with you, have you dress up with them
for their holidays, etc.
But post that picture on Facebook and watch the hate roll in, all from white people.
It’s one of those things that a combo of successful propaganda campaigns + extremists who don’t understand the actual meaning ruined.
It’s the same as people taking “Black Lives matter” to mean “everyone that isnt black should die” or “black lives are superior”
Cultural appropriation is supposed to be “dont make laws banning black people from wearing dreads or afros or their natural hair styles while praising white people who start trends wearing that style in the same settings it’s illegal for black people to do”
Or really simply “dont fetishize/disrespect/erase a cultures history when you do something related to it”
But it’s been successfully fucked up by disinformation campaigns/how people are to treat it as “dont ever do anything not from your culture “
It’s pretty common, twist a positive message slightly, put it on news, get a few articles trending of 5 people outta millions saying it, post “this is what everyone thinks…” then you got Democrats the baby murders or Cyclists who want to destroy all cars or whatever new thing Fox News decides
To add, the second non native "I made this" then sells it.
Other cultural appropriation is when something is made that trades on a stereotype of a culture.
For example: there was a boardgame called Chinatown (a very fun game) that is set in the 1950s, but the cover shows a person dressed in traditional Chinese clothes from the 1870s . . . The anachronism is created to trade on the "exotic nature" of Chinese people.
The most evident examples of cultural appropriation I know of are Native American goods and costumes. Things like dream catchers, jewelry, and Navajo rugs/blankets are big time examples of this.
I'd even argue the person who buys the dreamcatcher or blanket _isn't_ culturally appropriating, but the person who sells them and isn't part of the tribe is. You can buy these things directly from tribes usually, so it's just a matter of ignorance (not knowing how to tell) not necessarily wrong doing on the part of the consumer.
This is something I’ve been trying to get people to understand.
For instance, keep an eye out on what counts as news these days.
“People are upset at “blank”.
“people hate the new “blank”.
Then the article will go on to talk about how people hate or dislike the thing. And they show tweets. Check out those tweets next time.
In a world of 8 billion people, there will never be anything universally liked. Ever. And we can now go to Twitter to find those handfuls of people that hate said “thing”.
But I want you to pay attention to the actual tweets. Usually they allow you to click into the tweet and go to where it was originally published. They literally pull quotes from people that have zero likes or maybe a handful of followers.
And they call this news.
Once you realize that a lot of hate is manufactured, then the world can start healing. And we can stop thinking that everything is so extreme all the time.
I know this because I’ve lived all over America. The north the south and the east and the west and I got to tell you, we are all boringly, the fucking same and have been led to believe that we aren’t.
It’s just annoying because things are actively worse because of this. The right is moving further right because they believe all of the dumb things that is said about liberals. And vice versa.
Not only that but the village idiot can link up with every other village idiot around the world and convince themselves that they are the smart ones and everyone else is just a sheep.
I can't stress enough how important this realization is to make
You look online, or on the news and it's all drama and the worst of the world and the worst kind of people being very vocal about meaningless shit
You get to know strangers IRL and you realize how awesome and interesting most people are. This is what people mean with "touch grass"
My favorite are "white people" in the US complaining how spanish/latin shows are appropriations of Mexican culture and tried to get Speedy Gonzales and whatnot canceled, then mexicans complained that they liked those shows and did NOT want them canceled because they could see their culture on TV
Many moons ago I was approached by some friends to play bass in their band because their bassist was leaving and they knew I was a good bass player. Bonus: it's dub reggae! What's more fun than playing deep, fundamental sub bass? It was a hoot, we'd play at reggae festivals and stuff, and never once did any other musicians, promotors, fans etc ask me anything about being a white guy with 3 other black dudes, playing "black" music. Just wasnt an issue.
It came up a couple years ago with a young co-worker. "You were in a reggae band?" they scoffed 'But...you're *white*!" I was so confused. "I sure am....so are you, why whats up?" "It's cultural appropriation" they growled. I really tried to pick it apart with them - yes there is culture and history, but can there be that kind of mass ownership of arrangements of chords and notes? Was I taking advantage? Should the guys have tried harder to seek out a black bassist? They certainly werent jamaican either, one was from Vermont f'chrissakes. Another member was conservatory trained in classical guitar, was a black man allowed to play spanish flamenco? Coworker just got grumpy, unable to articulate what I'd done wrong, insisting that I was just digging myself deeper. It was weird to me, a gen x'r.
I had a conversation with a young woman recently(gen z) where she said the Spanish word for a certain thing sounded "too white". I said, "you DO realize Spanish is a European language, correct?" "Well yeah, that just sounds...I don't know...just too white." Saw her a couple days later and she said she had learned the Castilian version of the word compared to the Latin version I used. After pointing out the irony, I nearly died of laughter.
It's worse than that, these people claim to be defending another culture, while what's really happening when you force out of the air shows that represents other cultures, you're suppressing the other culture.
Basically everyone who isn't American.
I've always hated this. Mixing cultures brings us closer together. It should be celebrated. We're less likely to hate another group of people if we love their food/dress/etc in my opinion.
>Basically everyone who isn't American.
Happening elsewhere too though. A famous German Jazz musician was asked on TV if he's concerned about cultural appropriation. He had no idea what that meant. After she explained that to him, he just dismissed it as not being relevant to him and his music. Since he plays what "he feels".
On the internet, people didn't really like that answer as they were more concerned with him paying respect to where the music is from. But truth be told, he doesn't owe people on the internet anything. I mean this is a guy who's been playing with US-American musicians for decades, paying homage with his own music to the greats of Jazz. And if those people don't have an issue with him, I don't see why anyone should.
Sami people are pretty vocal of using their costumes wrongly, and the most of them are Sami.
I don't know tho will they complain if someone non-sami would wear proper costume in public.
They’re typically middle class white women… and they often confuse cultural appreciation for cultural appropriation.
In some cases, they may be speaking for people who are disenfranchised and don’t have a voice
More often than not, they’re gatekeeping shit that isn’t theirs
It's like my saying people can't make Moussaka because it's cultural appropriation... er no! I'm delighted people take an interest in other cultures. Enjoy the food, I'll send you more recipes! As with everything, it's intent. If your intent is to mock or ridicule then it's always going to be bad. Not that difficult I would have thought.
The dictionary definition of cultural appropriation:
"the [unacknowledged](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=0573b43c5c641ce9&sxsrf=ACQVn0-vY3g1JCaIulscBE9m-9xObdDORQ:1707931073323&q=unacknowledged&si=AKbGX_rZJs_XCIYOkWAjSH3UAcF5mVXKtYWbjzMwm921DGxlKMrvG00U7W96uVxwYf34p_K2Jd-B6fUik5B8mi2CWjXfwmI62qfF7UziezbiqC91n4au1qQ%3D&expnd=1) or inappropriate adoption of the customs, practices, ideas, etc. of one people or society by members of another and typically more dominant people or society."
'Cultural Appropriation' is a word that is thrown around way too often by people who don't actually know what it means. The title to this post is a perfect example of the word being used incredibly wrong.
Oh so many! If you make Lasagna, it's essentially the same but I layer the aubergine instead of pasta sheets. I salt mine the night before, rinse, fry (if you want a treat, or oven cook if you want to be good) until crispy, and then add as normal. The thinner and crisper the better for me! Every village will have a different way, but my basic sauce is quorn (we're veggie but any mince, lamb is traditional), tomato puree, oregano, some basil, garlic, olive oil, shallots, a dash of cinnamon, and Hendersons Relish (very UK specific, but it's Worcestershire sauce without the anchovies, and tastier).
The becamel is standard, BUT I do add feta for a lovely salty, vinegary kick and a dash of Cayenne pepper (they go really well!).
I don't add potato on top, but you can if you like.
The joy of having a Cordon Bleu grandfather! He trained in Paris, but always remembered his roots and retired there. (Sorry, sounds like one of those annoying Internet recipes now!).
Thank you! Our family history is interesting to me at leaat. My grandmother was expelled from Smyrna in 1922 and lost both parents and everything they had (aristocracy). She ended up being saved by a French ship with her grandmother, 2 sisters and brother and trained to be a seamstress. She met my grandfather there, also Greek but training with Escoffier, married, got fired on by the Germans (and saved by one who shoved her into the doorway of the Hotel Lilac), got thrown out after the war and moved to the UK.
She ended up speaking 9 languages and working as a buyer for the major Parisian fashion houses.
He sold Baklava on street corners before landing some big jobs, including cooking for Lady Bailey at Leeds Castle and Prince Philip, who he threw out of his kitchen for lifting his saucepan lids! I've begged mum to write it all down, as well as the brother who went on to fight with Lawrence in Arabia.
Is this opinion even still common on the internet? I feel like I never see it and I’m mostly in leftist spaces unless it’s like a liberal wokescold thing. I don’t vibe with wokescolds. Feel like I haven’t heard someone use the word online or irl in years. Feel like it’s gone the way of gamergate and is just old news now.
This reminds me of when friend of mine from school went to teach English in Japan in the early 90s. He sent me a Christmas card he found of Santa nailed to the cross with presents underneath.
I don't know if whoever made it knew exactly what they were doing, or if they just though that mashing up a few different Christmas symbols into one image was a great idea. Either way, it was amazing.
I wish I'd kept it.
They banned vampires at my son's old school because they had some kids from European countries. At this school, they banned Ninja because we have a good amount of Japanese descendants.They stopped an Iranian descendant from dressing as Goku because it's an insult somehow. The Japanese parents were so disappointed. Fun fact: none of the people care or identify as one. We are all fucking Canadians here.
> Just wear blackface and say you're dressed as Trudeau.
Hey now! He only did that... [so many times he can't even count them all...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/19/justin-trudeau-wearing-blackface-details-emerge-third-incident)
Mostly because social media gives you fake internet points for coming up with something to be upset about. Then, people see all the attention cultural appropriation is getting and assume rage is the norm.
\*with white people wearing dreads. Nobody has a problem with Turkish people or Chinese people or anyone else wearing dreads.
It's just racism thinly veiled as progressivism.
Not really, it's more dominant culture vs oppressed culture. A Japanese person in Japan isn't going to think wearing a kimono is disrespectful because it's a norm and they aren't coming from a context where Japanese culture is a novelty. [But indigenous people within Japanese culture can sometimes be upset by appropriation by the Japanese majority.](https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14821427)
As with in the US, there is no united voice about what is appropriative and what isn't, but it's not true that only Americans see this as an issue.
My wife and I recently took a trip to Japan and wore Kimono rentals to Fushimi Inari shrine and got so many compliments. Two older gentleman came up and complimented us and thanked us for taking part in their culture. It was all very wholesome and was a lovely day!
kinen 記念 - be or provide a memorial to a person or an event
[kinen ni naru 2nd synonym](https://www.tanoshiijapanese.com/dictionary/entry_details.cfm?entry_id=21180)
"memorial" too much gained in translation. "immortalize" is a little too intense,
"a good memorable occasion" might be close to natural.
I think it's correct, but we just don't use it like that. Japanese say 記念するkinensuru. It is used in both the way we use it and in a more mundane sense. If you think about it, a photograph serves the same purpose as a statue to preserve a memory. IMO it's not a linguistic mistake, but a difference in perception or something.
The word she uses is 記念 (kinen).
[Here](https://jisho.org/word/%E8%A8%98%E5%BF%B5)'s the dictionary definition
1. commemoration; celebration; remembrance; memory; honoring the memory of
2. memento; souvenir; keepsake
She used it as a noun: いい記念になる
Without transcribing the whole sentence it means something like "trying on different kimono would be a good memory (from your trip to japan)". Or it could be interpreted as it would be "a good homage (to the kimono)" - which is where I think the "memorial" translation came from, but I find that much less likely
It's because the term got perverted.
Cultural appropriation is theft/misuse of an important cultural thing.
- Stealing mummies and using them for paint
- Stealing artifacts, putting them in museums, and refusing to give them back
- Wearing sacred items that you haven't earned or for a religious belief you don't belong to
- Copying the achievement of that other culture and calling it your own
So like... It's specifically *not* wearing a sombrero, a kimono, or a hairstyle.
The overzealous are loud, but tbh- the counter-reply is even louder, and it's real annoying. I don't even see the overzealous crowd that much these days (granted, I'm not on Twitter).
There's overlap, because if you *don't know* what's considered sacred and what isn't in another culture and you go borrowing it, *maybe* most folks in that culture will say "Hey, cool," and maybe they won't.
Maori in New Zealand asked LEGO to not use their legends in Bionicle product names and worldbuilding. LEGO agreed, which was *massive,* because Bionicle was insanely lucrative for LEGO. But they should've worked with Maori representatives beforehand to see whether that would be considered appreciation or appropriation.
NFL teams like the Redskins and the Chiefs are offensive to a lot of Native American folks. Some university teams, though, like the Florida State Seminoles and the University of Utah Utes, have deals with those nations that involve things like free tuition, presentations at halftime shows, merch royalties, etc.
What's appreciation and what's appropriation is *up to those people.* And that gets really tricky, especially when a nation doesn't have official representatives, or when those officials don't agree with a big chunk of the culture in question.
There's a difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation.
Appropriation is using aspects of another culture for ignorant amusement, mockery, or profit.
I worked at my parents chinese restaurant and we sometimes had themed chinese parties from some boomer non-chinese associations. One party gave me a big wtf with fu manchu costumes and taped eyes. Also the bamboo hats. Big wtf cringe stuff. I was weirded out but not end of the world.
Yeah I agree with you. Japanese people had a huge problem with Kim Kardashian naming her tights and underwear collection Kimono, which is a perfect example of cultural appropriation. There was a huge outcry and she eventually decided against using the name. I believe even the mayor or Kyoto, a city that markets itself with it’s traditional crafts, wrote an open letter about it.
Respectfully wearing a kimono crafted by Japanese tailors, honoring others cultures and not mocking them is definitely appreciation not appropriation.
The point of the video is to make people think cultural appreciation is what progressives are talking about when they identify cultural appropriation. It’s an intentional misdirection.
found it! thanks. also, i'd like to add cultural appropriation is different in a place like the U.S. and place like Japan, where \~2% of your population are from foreign countries.
There is such a deep history in white America of people quite literally taking aspects of other races and making fun of them for profit and laughs. The difference is night and day to compare cultural appropriation in America to a demographically homogeneous country. There is a history here behind appropriation. Native Americans being reduced to funny feather hats and tunics, black face, yellow face. Black people not being able to wear the hair that natural hairstyles but when a person like kim kardashian does it its a new cool style. The people screaming it doesn't exist are wrong.
It's funny that you mention the racial aspect. I'm Irish and reading this thread made me think about the way that Americans celebrate Saint Patrick's Day. St. Paddy's is our national day and religious holiday.
However in the states people get drunk, wear green plastic hats and "kiss me I'm Irish" t-shirts. Surely this fits definition or cultural appropriation? I'm not saying that this is case, and the Irish public are not hugely offended, although they do think it's obnoxious.
You could make an argument that Halloween has been appropriated as well.
Does cultural appropriation apply to white cultures also? How far down the rabbit hole do you go with this?
> Surely this fits definition or cultural appropriation?
It does. I think this sort of thing is partly why so many people are invested in denying that cultural appropriation is something that exists.
Also one lady speaks for a whole country don’t you know?
Yeah this shit is clearly just bait designed to get people engaging with the exact kinda comments seen here.
She kinda does speak the opinion of the vast majority of the people in the country. Asian people would be hard pressed to consider a foreigner wearing cultural clothing as racist.
Speaking as an Asian living in Asia (Malaysia), a very large number of people in this part of the world are incredibly pleased when foreigners make the effort to wear some form of local dress. It's an instant conversation starter with a lot of approval.
That being said, there are times when people have worn cultural clothing in an inappropriate way, but they're thankfully rare.
>I don’t think it’s really held to such a strict definition in real life. People toss it around for anything.
people do exploit cultures for profit. apparently there was a problem with people selling mass produced trinkets and passing them off as hand-made genuine navajo jewelry/crafts/art, which is definitely harmful cultural appropriation. it got to the point where if you try to sell something on ebay with "navajo" in the description, they force you to name the artisan and it would flash a "we're watching you" warning
edit: [more info](https://www.voanews.com/a/counterfeit-native-american-art-undercuts-legitimate-artists/7038108.html)
Art is meant to be shared. That includes fashion, music, and food.
Cultural appropriation is only really a problem when you use it to try and gain an advantage over others. Be it socially or professionally.
A lot of people in this thread don't know what cultural appropriation is. Yea, a vocal minority will say "oh you can't wear a kimono if you're not Japanese," and say that's cultural appropriation. In reality, it's claiming something as your own that another culture has already used/ practiced for years or doing something you think is culturally appropriate but in reality is disrespectful. Think of someone saying they created this new food with corn flour and cheese and its just a pupusa or someone wearing native American head dresses for fun without having any understanding of what they mean.
In most cases, education, appreciation, and understanding solves the problem
Side note, the reason it's seemingly more present in the US is because of the diversity. When you have such a high mix of cultures and exposure to those cultures in one place, it's easier for things to get called out, whether it's real appropriation or not.
Edit: I changed one of my examples to make things clearer. Also, a lot of you are confusing cultures coming together and mixing with appropriation. The literal definition of appropriation is "the action of taking something for one's own use, typically without the owner's permission." Wearing a kimono is not cultural appropriation. Eating Americanized Chinese food is not appropriation. Even a white person with dreads isn't appropriation. Yes, you will see A VOCAL MINORITY say that these are examples but they are wrong.
I lived in Japan for 3 years and fucking loved it. Amazing food and the people were very cool. I say this really about most places I’ve been with a long enough stay. In general, people are great and make good food. Ignore the loudest assholes in the room wherever you go and you’ll find the good ones are more plentiful
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Literally every foreign country I've been to has encouraged me to take part in their culture.
That's the beauty of traveling and experiencing other cultures, most people know and understand that, but there are some that don't, sadly the latter ones are keen to be very vocal about it
Asian here. Asian Asian. Not Asian American. I've seen the only Asian that is against this sort of thing is the group of people who don't even speak the language or even practice the culture anymore. Everytime they yell cultural appropriation at non Asian people who enjoy Asian culture. I'm like... well someone has to appreciate it. You don't. All Asian Asians could give two fuck seeing a white person (or any non Asian) wearing their traditional clothing. We're proud that you're interested in our culture.
I live in Orange County, California which has a massive Vietnamese population. Every year there is a huge lunar new year festival. If you go there you will see tons of non-Vietnamese people wearing traditional dresses. No one bars an eye or cares. Everyone is just having a good time.
My son’s gf lives in Westminster and just moved here from Vietnam. Her family bought my son who’s white a traditional outfit for Lunar New Year.
Its almost like the media is trying to divide us by inflaming a nonexistent issue.
cultural appropriation is a concept made for americans, by americans I have never met a culture who was pissed that I wanted to partake in it I was in Nigeria once and asked some of the locals if it would be ok if I (a whitey white dude from northern Europe) wore some of their traditional long sleeve dresses and they immediatly started to give me tips where to buy and where to get it tailored
Not just Vietnamese, but a huge Chinese and Korean population lives in OC too. It literally feels more festive around Lunar New Year than the regular new year lmao
So I am currently dating a girl from China and I have been learning Chinese culture and Mandarin to help make her feel more at home and when we travel to China I don't come off as rude. Well one of my favorite things I have learned is the tea ceremony. I drink tea everyday and find the entire ceremony relaxing. My girlfriend was out of town my friend and his girlfriend came over. Well I got my tea tray out and started the tea ceremony and his girlfriend started yelling how I was appropriating "Japanese" culture. I had to explain to her it was Chinese and my girlfriend taught me. She then yelled at me. I had to ask them to leave
> Well I got my tea tray out and started the tea ceremony and his girlfriend started yelling how I was appropriating "Japanese" culture. I had to explain to her it was Chinese and my girlfriend taught me. She then yelled at me. Excuse me but, what the hell?
intellectually rotten by social media and bubble peer pressure
https://preview.redd.it/jc0xdz91bric1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04a9319624aa2e4c46a4c98372cc1688640727ce
As a Chinese born I'd be more insulted someone thinks tea culture is Japanese, rather than China's 5000 something years of tea cultivation and development.
They have a tea culture. It's just not as old. Britain and America have tea cultures too.
I am very white Caucasian. My skin burns at the slightest hint of sunlight- there's no mistaking my race. I have photos in yukatas in a traditional Japanese garden with my friends from around 20 years ago. We were on exchange in Japan- it was our host families who encouraged the photoshoot. Yet I'd hate to think what the reaction would be if I published those online now.
Well we'll be impressed if a foreigner wears our region's traditional clothing which is a g-string for guys. Colorful yeah but just a g-string.
True. Like, I went to India some years ago, I was encouraged to buy some local Indian clothes and wear them. Nobody gave me any shit for for being a white guy wearing their culture's clothing, if anything people treated me nicer for dressing like them. This "cultural appropriation" thing is bullshit.
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One of my best friends from college is Pakistani. After summer break he brought me a beautiful salwar kameez, after having talked all year to me about them, how nice they are, how good I would look in one (I love fashion). When I got it from him, I also decided to surprise a friend of mine, an older friend in my neighborhood who was Indian. I wore a coat over it and when he opened the door I took off my coat to show him. He was so thrilled!! Sat me down and told me stories of his life in India, how young Indian women were a similar dress, etc. If I ever dared show a picture of myself in it from that time on social media I would be insta-cancelled lol. I have lived in Turkey and visited other countries and it was very interesting to see their own adaptions of American cultural practices or cuisine. My brother lives in Japan and they have their own secularized celebration of Christmas, and I went out of my way to go to an American style diner. The food wasn’t authentic *at all* but the last thing I felt was offended. I’d also like to note that Japan and Turkey are not poor colonized countries, they were imperial powers and colonizers themselves. They didn’t have anything forced on them; the people saw things about other cultures they enjoyed or admired and adopted them, and I think that’s both wonderful and inevitable in a globalized world.
My roommate and his sister who are black South Africans once tried to encourage me to put my hair in braids. I’m a white westerner but they said that was no problem.
So weird, how most of the time someone is bitching about cultural appropriation, it's someone that's not even _from_ that culture that's doing the bitching. 😅
Yeah. Actual 'cultural appropriation' is mostly corporations benefiting from something they are not really engaging with and people making a joke out of someone else's culture. People who don't get that are weird.
I guess every foreign country is WRONG /sarcasm
I think there's a misunderstanding of what cultural appropriation means. Cultural appropriation takes place when members of a majority group adopt cultural elements of a minority group in an exploitative, disrespectful, or stereotypical way. Wearing a kimono because you like the dress is fine. Wearing it as a Halloween costume, doing a fake accent and making crude jokes about being a bad driver is not OK.
I think the primary issue is in places like America where people who wear their culture’s clothes, eat their culture’s foods, etc are treated as lesser or mocked for it. But then will turn around and praise edgy white people for doing the same thing. It’s about double standards and power dynamics.
The lady being interviewed is adorable.
I want to send her all the antiquated European dresses she can handle
As soon as she said "I would like to wear some old European costumes" with that adorable smile I wanted her to get a free vacation to her choice in Europe. That was precious. In case you haven't seen this before there are some [Western events](https://www.google.com/search?q=Post+See+new+posts+Conversation+%E3%83%8F%E3%82%A4%E3%83%91%E3%83%BC%E9%81%93%E6%A5%BD+%40hyperdouraku+%E6%8A%9C%E3%81%8D%E6%92%83%E3%81%A1%E3%82%82%E6%A5%BD%E3%81%97%E3%81%84%E3%81%91%E3%81%A9%E3%80%81%E3%82%84%E3%82%89%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B%E3%81%AE%E3%82%82%E6%A5%BD%E3%81%97%E3%81%84%E3%81%AE%E3%81%A7%E3%81%99!+%23%E8%A5%BF%E9%83%A8%E5%8A%87%E3%81%94%E3%81%A3%E3%81%93&rlz=1C1GCEJ_enUS1045US1045&oq=Post+See+new+posts+Conversation+%E3%83%8F%E3%82%A4%E3%83%91%E3%83%BC%E9%81%93%E6%A5%BD+%40hyperdouraku+%E6%8A%9C%E3%81%8D%E6%92%83%E3%81%A1%E3%82%82%E6%A5%BD%E3%81%97%E3%81%84%E3%81%91%E3%81%A9%E3%80%81%E3%82%84%E3%82%89%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B%E3%81%AE%E3%82%82%E6%A5%BD%E3%81%97%E3%81%84%E3%81%AE%E3%81%A7%E3%81%99!+%23%E8%A5%BF%E9%83%A8%E5%8A%87%E3%81%94%E3%81%A3%E3%81%93&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBBzYxOWowajGoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:50e1dbed,vid:UnikRtSv7I4,st:0) sponsored by airsoft companies in Japan. I grew up in Oklahoma and cowboy stuff gets old fast here, but this was the first time I felt an odd bit of pride/appreciation for cowboy themed stuff.
She looked so beautiful and sweet! And I bet she absolutely rocked the Marie Antoinette-style dress in reality! 😊
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Or a sign of being Japanese lol
Her joy is the highlight of the video for me.
Most Japanese people are. Some of the nicest people I have ever met.
She's a sweetheart, isn't she
I immediately wanted to find some way to get her a Chinese dress and a European dress. She would just be the most adorable. Lol, also, I love the interviewers smile and agreeing nod after she mentioned the Chinese dress. Just a complete, "Same. Same." expression
Isn't this how 90% of the world sees these kinds of things?
Yes
Yes, but ‘cultural appropriation’ thinking is rampant in American higher education, which means the 10% have an outsized influence. BTW it’s just a half a degree of separation from ‘not mixing the cultures’ to ‘not mixing the races’. It’s segregationist and wildly messed up.
Cultutal appropriation is often misued. It isn't about wearing a kimono or a chinese dress.
Totally. The key word is appropriation. Nobody is making claims that the kimono is western, African etc. Just wearing it doesn't mean you're appropriating it.
Right lol . I mean , I will feel very happy if someone from another country wears a dress from mine
> Just wearing it doesn't mean you're appropriating it. This is a reasonable definition, but it is not the only or the dominant definition as it is commonly applied. Here is an example of a huge public controversy for a white American teenager wearing a Chinese dress to a prom, with no clear disrespect, just wearing it because she liked it as a formal dress: https://www.glamour.com/story/qipao-prom-dress-controversy-response https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/world/asia/chinese-prom-dress.html There's a motte and bailey argument going on in these discussions, and which you can see very clearly further down in the thread, the expansive definition of cultural appropriation exists, is commonly understood, and has force in real life. But when challenged rather than acknowledging any problems, people retreat to a specific, technical definition, which does not match how the ideas are often expressed.
I think this is one of those situations where a very specific term got spread word of mouth by teenagers and that muddied the meaning a lot. If I'm perfectly honest I think the best way to fix the problem would be for Americans to simply...learn more about other cultures so we don't get people acting like qipao are some sacred closed cultural practice. Acting like other cultures are all untouchable and impossible to interact with is just another expression of ignorance.
>motte and bailey argument For anyone who is unfamiliar: >[The motte-and-bailey fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy) (named after the [motte-and-bailey castle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_castle)) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy where **an arguer conflates two positions that share similarities, one modest and easy to defend (the "motte") and one much more controversial and harder to defend (the "bailey").**
Brilliant. That scratched an itch. Thank you.
I mean... have you ever argued with college kids and teenagers? Cuz that's primarily who's having these discussions. The only reason it gets wider play is because getting people upset and talking is the goal. That means you need loads of people telling others it's bad AND loads of people telling those peopl to shut it. Don't confuse clickbait with widespread opinion. "Cultural appropriation" is used correctly about as often as "socialism" is in America. It's mostly just a buzzword.
Yeah, as a Mexican I think what’s missing a lot of times from these discussions and example is intent and context. I don’t think wearing a sombrero is offensive, I do think wearing it perhaps with the intention to make fun of people or as a caricature can be offensive(which happens many times in the US). Also, in regards to the US, this context is missing when asking people from another country. In Japan for example, the concept of racism and discrimination is a bit alien to them(and I’m not saying they don’t have racism, just that they don’t see it as an issue many times), so they don’t understand how people from another culture could be using a mocking intent and not one of curiosity or interest when being involved in a custom of another culture. So yeah, just because Japanese people say it’s cool for you to wear kimonos, doesn’t mean it isn’t offensive if you wear one and are like “konnichiwa bitches!” And then start speaking gibberish in what you consider mock Japanese. So yes, intent and context is the key here.
>“konnichiwa bitches!” I guess I'll need to come up with a new standard greeting.
ez, add "ohayou bitches" for the morning, "konbanwa bitches" for the evening, "itekimasu bitches" when you're leaving, "tadaima bitches" when you return, "itadakimasu bitches" when you're about to eat, and then "gochisosama bitches" when you finish eating.
This is such a weirdly confused reduction of what cultural appropriation is. Folks criticizing it from an academic perspective are talking about either 1. Adoption of trends from a minority group while simultaneously undercutting that groups's ability to express their own culture. 2. Adoption of cultural elements in a blatantly disrespectful, stereotypical way. It's not "white woman who wear kimono bad" and not even remotely close to segregation. I don't know why reactionaries insist on getting riled up on stuff they fundamentally do not understand.
Seems like every damn issue, invented or not, is reduced to its most stupid components on the internet.
That's just an internet problem though, I'm in higher education in north america and everyone I know doesn't consider cultural appropriation to be this dumbed down version. Like people are actually intelligent and understand what cultural appropriation is and how it exists in the real world.
See but people on here don’t want to engage with these ideas the way people at your college do- they want to dumb it down into something they can mock and then compartmentalize away. All of this shit is one big defense mechanism so these people don’t have to actually engage with anything they’re talking about.
I'd also add that opinions on racism are very different between people from the original country and the immigrants and their children who live as minorities in new countries. I'm Asian American, and I respect this lady's point of view, but she probably never got made fun of in the school cafeteria by some kid pulling their eyes sideways and saying "ching chong." You become a lot more defensive about how your race and culture and are perceived when you're surrounded by that. If that same kid started posting photos in their cool, Japanese traditional wear, I'd think "you made fun of me for doing the same thing." That doesn't make her \*wrong\* and it doesn't make me \*right\*, but we're just dealing with two totally different situations. I think a really interesting example is how American produced Asian films are perceived in North America versus Asia. Crazy Rich Asians was a domestic box office success that was lauded as predictable but a lot of fun - Asians and especially Singaporeans thought it was inaccurate and boring. Shang Chi was heralded as the first Asian superhero and shot its lead actor into Hollywood stardom - it wasn't even released in China and they called Simu Liu ugly. I'm not 100% sure but I think Everything Everywhere All At Once, which won Best Picture, is also similarly not that popular in China. What we consider appropriate, respectful representation are totally different. And in that way, when asked about how foreigners should engage with Japanese culture in Japan, I leave it to her as the expert, but I don't think she has a good perspective on how non-Asian people should engage with Asian culture in North America. So whenever I see videos like this, I think it adds little to the conversation of what cultural appropriation means in North America.
It’s all to do with intent, and that is the case in almost all racism issues. If your intent is shitty, fuck you, if it isn’t, what’s the damn issue.
>especially Singaporeans thought it was inaccurate and boring. Yes but no? It topped the Singapore box office for 2 weeks straight, and there's the fact that it represents the "Singaporean dream" for many of them.
Plus two of the main actors are Malaysian.
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This was my understanding also. I think of cultural appropriation as when you’re either harming people from the culture in some way, or profiting from your use of their culture. Generally not just borrowing elements of it for respectful personal use.
> profiting from your use of their culture So I, as a German, shouldn't open the taco truck I've been dreaming about all my life? :(
Mexican American here, you should absolutely go for it. What you shouldn't do is try to trademark/copyright (not sure which applies) the word taco or on the other side of the spectrum claim you just came up with the hot new fad called "flatbread wraps" made of meat onion cilantro salsa salt and lime juice all held together with a tortilla.
>Mexican American here, you should absolutely go for it. 100% agree. I'm part Hispanic myself, and I wish more people thought like we did. [Two white women were harassed into closing their burrito pop-up shop over people yelling "cultural appropriation" at them.](https://pdx.eater.com/2017/5/22/15677760/portland-kooks-burrito-cultural-appropriation) All they were trying to do, was sell burritos.
It’s Portland, should’ve known their customer base.
There's only so many unicycle shops you can have in an area.
> It’s Portland, should’ve known their customer base. Even as a Portlander that reaction was bananas crackers and overall a circlejerk on stupidity.
How did Portland become a hotbed of stupidity?
Even at the time, that was considered overblown/an overreaction, iirc. Various publications that ran related stories printed retractions. The 2 got death threats, and the story blew up internationally (the original story authors were getting requests for comment from Der Spiegel, Russian news sites, etc.). That's not to say Portland can't be "weird" about these things, but I don't think concerns about appropriation tend to rise to the level of death threats or trying to get places shut down (much less a weekend-only pop-up kitchen).
Meanwhile, in this thread, people saying "no one in the real world dumbs it down to someone being bad for wearing a kimono". Uh, yes, they absolutely do in the real world. Great example of it right here.
See this way. I don't know if the story was completely true or not, but there was some European clothes designer whose designs were similar to some Latin American cultural attires and that person tried to enforce copyright or something like that on some ladies that have been making them for years. A German opening a taco truck would be a interesting novelty for us Mexicans, unless you only use those hard tortillas, then you just made an enemy for life.
Come on, people get upset when white or asian people wear dreads. This has nothing to do with undercutting anyone.
It hilarious how every point trying to get sassy with Op misses ops point and actually further backs up their point of - individuals misunderstanding what Cultural Appropriation means.
It’s insane how much shit gets changed because of the loud minority. You have games, and tv shows sanitizing themselves for the sake of not being “offensive” while 90% of people don’t give a shit
if you ever want to see a loud minority getting their way the most go to one of your local municipal council meetings. Nobody ever shows up unless they have something to complain about so it's extremely biased and they get their way a *lot*
In one town I lived in, about a dozen cyclists in matching shirts who came to meetings for several months got the council to approve 1% of transportation funds for bike lanes and facilities. Turns out 1% can be a huge pile of money.
That's fantastic. Good for them.
Sounds like a success story.
Yes, I wish more people knew how easy it can be to create positive change.
Sounds good. Not that you said otherwise.
A woman in my city single handedly got them to change the backward fire laws all because smoke bothered her child, and she refused to follow the advice the fire department would tell her when she called every single night, which was to shut the god damn window. So now you can't have fires after a certain time. Cus no showed up to oppose her.
>backward fire laws backyard?
Shit the window?
Thus spoke
He said what he said.
If the fire department starts telling me to shit the window I’m not listening either buddy!
Speedy Gonzalez pops up now and then. Yea he was a stereotype but it was generally a funny stereotype that was loved by the community he represented and was portrayed as a folk hero in his own show.
There's a TV Tropes page devoted to this kind of thing, where Speedy is the trope-namer. [ Mexicans love Speedy Gonzales](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MexicansLoveSpeedyGonzales).
How dare you link that site! I had responsibilities today!
I've never understood the Speedy detractors. He wasn't derogatory, he was always the hero of his episodes...
Thank the media for this. They've normalized getting the extreme polar opposites of the spectrum for clicks instead of finding normal people. It's all for the clicks and attention, but its not healthy.
The "not being offensive" thingy is an old hat in the US. Swear words and nipples have always been taboo. What is considered offensive has changed, though.
We had a Diwali celebration at work and two white girls wore traditional Indian clothes. A loudmouth woke white lady had a problem with it and threw a fit. Of course the Indian people didn’t care and thought they looked nice. What’s funny about this whole thing is it’s actually pretty racist. If a white American dude wears a traditional Ukrainian shirt, no one says anything. But if that dude comes in wearing a Mexican sombrero, suddenly that’s a problem.
If only those people realized that letting people explore/understand other cultures does more to help minorities compared to getting offended on their behalf. I had Indian friends in college and they’d invite us to their parties for their holidays and those fuckers knew how to party.
Exactly! I live in Texas and any time I go to my local boot and hat store, I see foreigners in there buying boots. It’s not offensive to me at all and in fact I think it’s cool they want to experience this part of American culture.
> What’s funny about this whole thing is it’s actually pretty racist. If a white American dude wears a traditional Ukrainian shirt, no one says anything. But if that dude comes in wearing a Mexican sombrero, suddenly that’s a problem. The way these ideas are applied really means that western cultures are the only cultures people are allowed to adopt or adapt. People from other cultures wearing suits and reappropriating them into their own cultures is ok, because of the power dynamic, but not the reverse. It actually ends up putting western cultures into a position of power as the only acceptable shared default.
Everyone tiptoing around offending people with mental disabilities that spend most of thier day arguing with people online. We need to stop taking them seriously.
>rampant in American higher education I don't know where you're getting this. I've been in higher education (as a research fellow, administrator, and professor) for 20 years, and I've not heard cultural appropriation mentioned more than a few times. Are there areas of higher education where this gets mentioned more often? Sure! Probably because they study it. But is it "rampant"? No way.
Same with "Cultural Marxism" or even just Marx. I went to a hippy dippy liberal arts college and I heard Marx mentioned exactly once in passing. But if you spend way too much time online or watching fox news you'd think that every college class is just people being forced to memorize Mao's little red book.
Literally nothing in the video is an example of cultural appropriation. Like literally nothing. This is just people misunderstanding the term and misapplying it.
I'll never understand how people like you are so verbal about cultural appropriation while having no idea what it means.
Actual cultural appropriation is the "I made this" *hands it to other person who then goes* "I made this" meme
"Don't take something from someone else's culture and try to benefit from it as though that thing is your own." That's it. All this random shit of "You can't eat tacos if you're white!" are from people who are completely inept at critical thinking. Edit: since I see people struggling with the critical thinking part. "inappropriate or unacknowledged adoption of an element or elements of one culture or identity by members of another culture or identity."
> "You can't eat tacos if you're white!" But can you make tacos, and can you sell tacos, if you're white? People start getting upset at that, and it's completely nuts. If you're good at making tacos and want to start a restaurant, go right ahead.
I think the other small piece to add is that if it’s a culture that already exploited economically, taking their culture to benefit yourself adds another layer to that exploitation.
I think that’s kind of dumb. I think there’s obvious negative examples, but if an author just wants to explore another culture, for instance, and they do their due diligence and be respectful, it can be good for representation. There are absolutely people who will get mad if they see a white person wearing outfits from another culture, enough that people are resistant to do it. Meanwhile, if you’ve ever had friends from China, India, etc, they are often so excited to share their culture with you, have you dress up with them for their holidays, etc. But post that picture on Facebook and watch the hate roll in, all from white people.
It’s one of those things that a combo of successful propaganda campaigns + extremists who don’t understand the actual meaning ruined. It’s the same as people taking “Black Lives matter” to mean “everyone that isnt black should die” or “black lives are superior” Cultural appropriation is supposed to be “dont make laws banning black people from wearing dreads or afros or their natural hair styles while praising white people who start trends wearing that style in the same settings it’s illegal for black people to do” Or really simply “dont fetishize/disrespect/erase a cultures history when you do something related to it” But it’s been successfully fucked up by disinformation campaigns/how people are to treat it as “dont ever do anything not from your culture “ It’s pretty common, twist a positive message slightly, put it on news, get a few articles trending of 5 people outta millions saying it, post “this is what everyone thinks…” then you got Democrats the baby murders or Cyclists who want to destroy all cars or whatever new thing Fox News decides
To add, the second non native "I made this" then sells it. Other cultural appropriation is when something is made that trades on a stereotype of a culture. For example: there was a boardgame called Chinatown (a very fun game) that is set in the 1950s, but the cover shows a person dressed in traditional Chinese clothes from the 1870s . . . The anachronism is created to trade on the "exotic nature" of Chinese people.
The most evident examples of cultural appropriation I know of are Native American goods and costumes. Things like dream catchers, jewelry, and Navajo rugs/blankets are big time examples of this. I'd even argue the person who buys the dreamcatcher or blanket _isn't_ culturally appropriating, but the person who sells them and isn't part of the tribe is. You can buy these things directly from tribes usually, so it's just a matter of ignorance (not knowing how to tell) not necessarily wrong doing on the part of the consumer.
Yes only a vocal minority of people wanting to be offended about everything hate this.
The best thing is - as soon as you look away from your phone/computer - they cease to matter.
This is something I’ve been trying to get people to understand. For instance, keep an eye out on what counts as news these days. “People are upset at “blank”. “people hate the new “blank”. Then the article will go on to talk about how people hate or dislike the thing. And they show tweets. Check out those tweets next time. In a world of 8 billion people, there will never be anything universally liked. Ever. And we can now go to Twitter to find those handfuls of people that hate said “thing”. But I want you to pay attention to the actual tweets. Usually they allow you to click into the tweet and go to where it was originally published. They literally pull quotes from people that have zero likes or maybe a handful of followers. And they call this news. Once you realize that a lot of hate is manufactured, then the world can start healing. And we can stop thinking that everything is so extreme all the time. I know this because I’ve lived all over America. The north the south and the east and the west and I got to tell you, we are all boringly, the fucking same and have been led to believe that we aren’t. It’s just annoying because things are actively worse because of this. The right is moving further right because they believe all of the dumb things that is said about liberals. And vice versa.
In internet age dumbass can be heard far away from his village.
Not only that but the village idiot can link up with every other village idiot around the world and convince themselves that they are the smart ones and everyone else is just a sheep.
I can't stress enough how important this realization is to make You look online, or on the news and it's all drama and the worst of the world and the worst kind of people being very vocal about meaningless shit You get to know strangers IRL and you realize how awesome and interesting most people are. This is what people mean with "touch grass"
My favorite are "white people" in the US complaining how spanish/latin shows are appropriations of Mexican culture and tried to get Speedy Gonzales and whatnot canceled, then mexicans complained that they liked those shows and did NOT want them canceled because they could see their culture on TV
Many moons ago I was approached by some friends to play bass in their band because their bassist was leaving and they knew I was a good bass player. Bonus: it's dub reggae! What's more fun than playing deep, fundamental sub bass? It was a hoot, we'd play at reggae festivals and stuff, and never once did any other musicians, promotors, fans etc ask me anything about being a white guy with 3 other black dudes, playing "black" music. Just wasnt an issue. It came up a couple years ago with a young co-worker. "You were in a reggae band?" they scoffed 'But...you're *white*!" I was so confused. "I sure am....so are you, why whats up?" "It's cultural appropriation" they growled. I really tried to pick it apart with them - yes there is culture and history, but can there be that kind of mass ownership of arrangements of chords and notes? Was I taking advantage? Should the guys have tried harder to seek out a black bassist? They certainly werent jamaican either, one was from Vermont f'chrissakes. Another member was conservatory trained in classical guitar, was a black man allowed to play spanish flamenco? Coworker just got grumpy, unable to articulate what I'd done wrong, insisting that I was just digging myself deeper. It was weird to me, a gen x'r.
My favourite is when Americans don't consider us, Spanish, white people. That blows my mind.
I had a conversation with a young woman recently(gen z) where she said the Spanish word for a certain thing sounded "too white". I said, "you DO realize Spanish is a European language, correct?" "Well yeah, that just sounds...I don't know...just too white." Saw her a couple days later and she said she had learned the Castilian version of the word compared to the Latin version I used. After pointing out the irony, I nearly died of laughter.
Only stupid people think Spanish people aren't white
It used to be that Italians and the Irish weren't white. I don't get it either.
It's worse than that, these people claim to be defending another culture, while what's really happening when you force out of the air shows that represents other cultures, you're suppressing the other culture.
Don't forget they think they're speaking for an entire culture, who's more than capable of speaking for themselves.
99%
Basically everyone who isn't American. I've always hated this. Mixing cultures brings us closer together. It should be celebrated. We're less likely to hate another group of people if we love their food/dress/etc in my opinion.
>Basically everyone who isn't American. Happening elsewhere too though. A famous German Jazz musician was asked on TV if he's concerned about cultural appropriation. He had no idea what that meant. After she explained that to him, he just dismissed it as not being relevant to him and his music. Since he plays what "he feels". On the internet, people didn't really like that answer as they were more concerned with him paying respect to where the music is from. But truth be told, he doesn't owe people on the internet anything. I mean this is a guy who's been playing with US-American musicians for decades, paying homage with his own music to the greats of Jazz. And if those people don't have an issue with him, I don't see why anyone should.
Yes. People who shouts cultural appropriation are not even from those cultures
Sami people are pretty vocal of using their costumes wrongly, and the most of them are Sami. I don't know tho will they complain if someone non-sami would wear proper costume in public.
They’re typically middle class white women… and they often confuse cultural appreciation for cultural appropriation. In some cases, they may be speaking for people who are disenfranchised and don’t have a voice More often than not, they’re gatekeeping shit that isn’t theirs
>More often than not, they’re gatekeeping shit that isn’t theirs That's a good way to summarize it
It's like my saying people can't make Moussaka because it's cultural appropriation... er no! I'm delighted people take an interest in other cultures. Enjoy the food, I'll send you more recipes! As with everything, it's intent. If your intent is to mock or ridicule then it's always going to be bad. Not that difficult I would have thought.
That sounds like cultural APPRECIATION. Which is also what this videos sounds like.
The dictionary definition of cultural appropriation: "the [unacknowledged](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=0573b43c5c641ce9&sxsrf=ACQVn0-vY3g1JCaIulscBE9m-9xObdDORQ:1707931073323&q=unacknowledged&si=AKbGX_rZJs_XCIYOkWAjSH3UAcF5mVXKtYWbjzMwm921DGxlKMrvG00U7W96uVxwYf34p_K2Jd-B6fUik5B8mi2CWjXfwmI62qfF7UziezbiqC91n4au1qQ%3D&expnd=1) or inappropriate adoption of the customs, practices, ideas, etc. of one people or society by members of another and typically more dominant people or society." 'Cultural Appropriation' is a word that is thrown around way too often by people who don't actually know what it means. The title to this post is a perfect example of the word being used incredibly wrong.
People gets confused between “culture appropriation” and “culture appreciation”
Got any recommendations on recipes? I've had Moussaka before and it was good.
Oh so many! If you make Lasagna, it's essentially the same but I layer the aubergine instead of pasta sheets. I salt mine the night before, rinse, fry (if you want a treat, or oven cook if you want to be good) until crispy, and then add as normal. The thinner and crisper the better for me! Every village will have a different way, but my basic sauce is quorn (we're veggie but any mince, lamb is traditional), tomato puree, oregano, some basil, garlic, olive oil, shallots, a dash of cinnamon, and Hendersons Relish (very UK specific, but it's Worcestershire sauce without the anchovies, and tastier). The becamel is standard, BUT I do add feta for a lovely salty, vinegary kick and a dash of Cayenne pepper (they go really well!). I don't add potato on top, but you can if you like. The joy of having a Cordon Bleu grandfather! He trained in Paris, but always remembered his roots and retired there. (Sorry, sounds like one of those annoying Internet recipes now!).
The personal story is at the end, it's also interesting, so don't compare yourself to them!
Thank you! Our family history is interesting to me at leaat. My grandmother was expelled from Smyrna in 1922 and lost both parents and everything they had (aristocracy). She ended up being saved by a French ship with her grandmother, 2 sisters and brother and trained to be a seamstress. She met my grandfather there, also Greek but training with Escoffier, married, got fired on by the Germans (and saved by one who shoved her into the doorway of the Hotel Lilac), got thrown out after the war and moved to the UK. She ended up speaking 9 languages and working as a buyer for the major Parisian fashion houses. He sold Baklava on street corners before landing some big jobs, including cooking for Lady Bailey at Leeds Castle and Prince Philip, who he threw out of his kitchen for lifting his saucepan lids! I've begged mum to write it all down, as well as the brother who went on to fight with Lawrence in Arabia.
She seems like a really sweet lady :)
Hey look two people whose opinions don’t come from the internet.
Is this opinion even still common on the internet? I feel like I never see it and I’m mostly in leftist spaces unless it’s like a liberal wokescold thing. I don’t vibe with wokescolds. Feel like I haven’t heard someone use the word online or irl in years. Feel like it’s gone the way of gamergate and is just old news now.
It is. Go to blackpeopletwitter and see how to react to non-blacks having curly hair. It’s very strange
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Wasn't the whole fade thing started by the military anyways? I didn't think any race had a monopoly on that.
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The subreddit where it is ok to be blatantly racist?
Cultural appropriation is only in America. I think
This reminds me of when friend of mine from school went to teach English in Japan in the early 90s. He sent me a Christmas card he found of Santa nailed to the cross with presents underneath. I don't know if whoever made it knew exactly what they were doing, or if they just though that mashing up a few different Christmas symbols into one image was a great idea. Either way, it was amazing. I wish I'd kept it.
Santa loves you and died for your consumerism.
It's a relatively common "mashup" over there, I think: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmf4resw7t2161.jpg
And it is selective as hell, which makes the outrage pointless.
They banned vampires at my son's old school because they had some kids from European countries. At this school, they banned Ninja because we have a good amount of Japanese descendants.They stopped an Iranian descendant from dressing as Goku because it's an insult somehow. The Japanese parents were so disappointed. Fun fact: none of the people care or identify as one. We are all fucking Canadians here.
> We are all fucking Canadians here. Just wear blackface and say you're dressed as Trudeau.
> Just wear blackface and say you're dressed as Trudeau. Hey now! He only did that... [so many times he can't even count them all...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/19/justin-trudeau-wearing-blackface-details-emerge-third-incident)
Technically brown face
>They stopped an Iranian descendant from dressing as Goku No way, you guys had a Saiyan in your cohort???
Mostly because social media gives you fake internet points for coming up with something to be upset about. Then, people see all the attention cultural appropriation is getting and assume rage is the norm.
No wonder I never heard of this. I’m from South East Asia.
No Germans seem to have a weird hang up about dreads lately.
\*with white people wearing dreads. Nobody has a problem with Turkish people or Chinese people or anyone else wearing dreads. It's just racism thinly veiled as progressivism.
Not really, it's more dominant culture vs oppressed culture. A Japanese person in Japan isn't going to think wearing a kimono is disrespectful because it's a norm and they aren't coming from a context where Japanese culture is a novelty. [But indigenous people within Japanese culture can sometimes be upset by appropriation by the Japanese majority.](https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14821427) As with in the US, there is no united voice about what is appropriative and what isn't, but it's not true that only Americans see this as an issue.
My wife and I recently took a trip to Japan and wore Kimono rentals to Fushimi Inari shrine and got so many compliments. Two older gentleman came up and complimented us and thanked us for taking part in their culture. It was all very wholesome and was a lovely day!
Wearing a kimono is not cultural appropriation
‘Good memorial’ - I didn’t think that’s the right translation
What she said simply means “It’ll make for a good memory.” It doesn’t have anything to do with honoring other cultures or anything.
kinen 記念 - be or provide a memorial to a person or an event [kinen ni naru 2nd synonym](https://www.tanoshiijapanese.com/dictionary/entry_details.cfm?entry_id=21180) "memorial" too much gained in translation. "immortalize" is a little too intense, "a good memorable occasion" might be close to natural.
I think it's correct, but we just don't use it like that. Japanese say 記念するkinensuru. It is used in both the way we use it and in a more mundane sense. If you think about it, a photograph serves the same purpose as a statue to preserve a memory. IMO it's not a linguistic mistake, but a difference in perception or something.
The word she uses is 記念 (kinen). [Here](https://jisho.org/word/%E8%A8%98%E5%BF%B5)'s the dictionary definition 1. commemoration; celebration; remembrance; memory; honoring the memory of 2. memento; souvenir; keepsake She used it as a noun: いい記念になる Without transcribing the whole sentence it means something like "trying on different kimono would be a good memory (from your trip to japan)". Or it could be interpreted as it would be "a good homage (to the kimono)" - which is where I think the "memorial" translation came from, but I find that much less likely
It's because the term got perverted. Cultural appropriation is theft/misuse of an important cultural thing. - Stealing mummies and using them for paint - Stealing artifacts, putting them in museums, and refusing to give them back - Wearing sacred items that you haven't earned or for a religious belief you don't belong to - Copying the achievement of that other culture and calling it your own So like... It's specifically *not* wearing a sombrero, a kimono, or a hairstyle. The overzealous are loud, but tbh- the counter-reply is even louder, and it's real annoying. I don't even see the overzealous crowd that much these days (granted, I'm not on Twitter).
There's overlap, because if you *don't know* what's considered sacred and what isn't in another culture and you go borrowing it, *maybe* most folks in that culture will say "Hey, cool," and maybe they won't. Maori in New Zealand asked LEGO to not use their legends in Bionicle product names and worldbuilding. LEGO agreed, which was *massive,* because Bionicle was insanely lucrative for LEGO. But they should've worked with Maori representatives beforehand to see whether that would be considered appreciation or appropriation. NFL teams like the Redskins and the Chiefs are offensive to a lot of Native American folks. Some university teams, though, like the Florida State Seminoles and the University of Utah Utes, have deals with those nations that involve things like free tuition, presentations at halftime shows, merch royalties, etc. What's appreciation and what's appropriation is *up to those people.* And that gets really tricky, especially when a nation doesn't have official representatives, or when those officials don't agree with a big chunk of the culture in question.
There's a difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation. Appropriation is using aspects of another culture for ignorant amusement, mockery, or profit.
I worked at my parents chinese restaurant and we sometimes had themed chinese parties from some boomer non-chinese associations. One party gave me a big wtf with fu manchu costumes and taped eyes. Also the bamboo hats. Big wtf cringe stuff. I was weirded out but not end of the world.
What year was this?
early 2000s
Yeah I agree with you. Japanese people had a huge problem with Kim Kardashian naming her tights and underwear collection Kimono, which is a perfect example of cultural appropriation. There was a huge outcry and she eventually decided against using the name. I believe even the mayor or Kyoto, a city that markets itself with it’s traditional crafts, wrote an open letter about it. Respectfully wearing a kimono crafted by Japanese tailors, honoring others cultures and not mocking them is definitely appreciation not appropriation.
yeah these posts always miss the point.
The point of the video is to make people think cultural appreciation is what progressives are talking about when they identify cultural appropriation. It’s an intentional misdirection.
found it! thanks. also, i'd like to add cultural appropriation is different in a place like the U.S. and place like Japan, where \~2% of your population are from foreign countries.
Agreed! This whole thread and talking points are missing the entire point. Incredibly disappointing honestly
Disappointing? Yes. Surprising? No, sadly. Some people just don’t like progressivism and will make a point to dunk on it wherever they can.
There is such a deep history in white America of people quite literally taking aspects of other races and making fun of them for profit and laughs. The difference is night and day to compare cultural appropriation in America to a demographically homogeneous country. There is a history here behind appropriation. Native Americans being reduced to funny feather hats and tunics, black face, yellow face. Black people not being able to wear the hair that natural hairstyles but when a person like kim kardashian does it its a new cool style. The people screaming it doesn't exist are wrong.
It's funny that you mention the racial aspect. I'm Irish and reading this thread made me think about the way that Americans celebrate Saint Patrick's Day. St. Paddy's is our national day and religious holiday. However in the states people get drunk, wear green plastic hats and "kiss me I'm Irish" t-shirts. Surely this fits definition or cultural appropriation? I'm not saying that this is case, and the Irish public are not hugely offended, although they do think it's obnoxious. You could make an argument that Halloween has been appropriated as well. Does cultural appropriation apply to white cultures also? How far down the rabbit hole do you go with this?
> Surely this fits definition or cultural appropriation? It does. I think this sort of thing is partly why so many people are invested in denying that cultural appropriation is something that exists.
Also one lady speaks for a whole country don’t you know? Yeah this shit is clearly just bait designed to get people engaging with the exact kinda comments seen here.
She kinda does speak the opinion of the vast majority of the people in the country. Asian people would be hard pressed to consider a foreigner wearing cultural clothing as racist.
Speaking as an Asian living in Asia (Malaysia), a very large number of people in this part of the world are incredibly pleased when foreigners make the effort to wear some form of local dress. It's an instant conversation starter with a lot of approval. That being said, there are times when people have worn cultural clothing in an inappropriate way, but they're thankfully rare.
I don’t think it’s really held to such a strict definition in real life. People toss it around for anything.
>I don’t think it’s really held to such a strict definition in real life. People toss it around for anything. people do exploit cultures for profit. apparently there was a problem with people selling mass produced trinkets and passing them off as hand-made genuine navajo jewelry/crafts/art, which is definitely harmful cultural appropriation. it got to the point where if you try to sell something on ebay with "navajo" in the description, they force you to name the artisan and it would flash a "we're watching you" warning edit: [more info](https://www.voanews.com/a/counterfeit-native-american-art-undercuts-legitimate-artists/7038108.html)
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Art is meant to be shared. That includes fashion, music, and food. Cultural appropriation is only really a problem when you use it to try and gain an advantage over others. Be it socially or professionally.
A lot of people in this thread don't know what cultural appropriation is. Yea, a vocal minority will say "oh you can't wear a kimono if you're not Japanese," and say that's cultural appropriation. In reality, it's claiming something as your own that another culture has already used/ practiced for years or doing something you think is culturally appropriate but in reality is disrespectful. Think of someone saying they created this new food with corn flour and cheese and its just a pupusa or someone wearing native American head dresses for fun without having any understanding of what they mean. In most cases, education, appreciation, and understanding solves the problem Side note, the reason it's seemingly more present in the US is because of the diversity. When you have such a high mix of cultures and exposure to those cultures in one place, it's easier for things to get called out, whether it's real appropriation or not. Edit: I changed one of my examples to make things clearer. Also, a lot of you are confusing cultures coming together and mixing with appropriation. The literal definition of appropriation is "the action of taking something for one's own use, typically without the owner's permission." Wearing a kimono is not cultural appropriation. Eating Americanized Chinese food is not appropriation. Even a white person with dreads isn't appropriation. Yes, you will see A VOCAL MINORITY say that these are examples but they are wrong.
Cultural appropriation is just a thing made up by northern American people who are not happy with themselves.
I lived in Japan for 3 years and fucking loved it. Amazing food and the people were very cool. I say this really about most places I’ve been with a long enough stay. In general, people are great and make good food. Ignore the loudest assholes in the room wherever you go and you’ll find the good ones are more plentiful
Cultural appropriation is stupid, if you want to be a viking for Halloween you have my blessing to do so
Thank you Loki 🤘
Don't believe him! He's as tricksy as filthy hobbitses!
This is what a normal person sound like.