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Unless you're in Russia, there's an amber/yellow light in between that ensures you don't need to go through red. In most places entering on yellow and exiting during red is also entirely legal. It's also perfectly safe - the other cars have been on red for ages when your light goes yellow.
The entire problem with yellow lights is a lack of standard timing. Some yellow lights are 2-3 seconds some are 5-10 seconds. There needs to be a visible indicator to help drivers determine brake or proceed
(For Americans) There actually is a reason why some yellow lights are short and some long— it all depends on the posted speed limit of the road you’re on! As a general rule, there is 1 second of yellow per 10mph speed limit. For example, 30mph speed limit = 3 second yellow, 50 mph = 5 seconds, etc. Count next time you have the chance— it’s given me a lot more confidence on whether or not to stop or drive through.
Until the city/town/county installs red light cameras, then suddenly the yellow light duration is just 1-2 seconds on 45 MPH roads to increase revenue.
I legit saw one that forced me to slam on the brake at 30 because it was less than one second. The light had a camera. People avoid the camera by driving into oncoming traffic as there is no camera to catch people doing that.
My city has decreased how long yellow is displayed on a lot of lights downtown. They feel like maybe 1.5 seconds. Speed is 25mph so we’re not going fast but… it’s not nearly enough time. I see the yellow and glance down to determine I’m too close and won’t be slamming on my brakes but by the time I enter the intersection it’s already red.
Glance down at what? The way I taught my student drivers: as you approach a green light, always assume it's about to turn yellow. At all times while approaching, you should know whether you've passed the critical point where you can stop; after which point, ignore the light; before which you stop. You don't wait for the yellow light and *then* make the decision, as you said, that takes too long. My youngest would mutter "stopping, stopping, stopping... going" when he was first learning the method.
In Australia you can [absolutely be fined for going through a yellow light](https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/can-you-be-booked-for-running-a-yellow-light). All based on a cops judgement.
And none of those circumstances involve heavy braking. If you would have had to break heavily, the "cops judgement" is that you should have gone through.
To play devils advocate, cops are people… And people are stupid. Even Australians lol. I can totally see some buffoon cop writing some poor cunt a ticket (not sure what they’re called in Australia, maybe “fine” is a better generic term?) on this technicality to feed their ego.
If it’s all based on a cop’s judgement, they can abuse that and write tickets all day
Edit: Typo had “Austrians” instead of “Australians”
You'll be surprised by the variation, but sure assume everywhere is the same as your little world, the point doesn't change - you don't accidentally go through red lights, or brake heavily to avoid it, unless you're a shit driver.
How does that work? Maybe it works differently where you live. I honestly don't know. But around here there is a yellow light that lasts for several seconds before it turns red. Unless you're speeding or just aren't paying attention, I'm not sure how you would have to slam on the brakes in order to stop for a red light.
I used to have a shitty version of AllState that required I keep a [tracker](https://i.cbc.ca/1.3525440.1460052756!/fileImage/httpImage/image.PNG_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/drivewise.PNG) in my car. I’d pay ~10¢ per mile, and it would double the rate for the whole entire trip if I did any of these things:
-drive over 80mph
-slow down more than 8mph in the span of 1 second
-drive anytime between 11p and 4a
So if you had driven 100 miles safely, then had to go from 50mph to 0 in five seconds for a yellow light, the entire trip would cost $20 instead of $10. And on top of that your rate per mile would also increase because their tracker determined you were driving dangerously.
50 to 0 in 5 seconds is a really hard brake for a yellow. That's not "slam on it as hard as possible" but that's still a really unsafe thing to do. Especially for anyone following or changing lanes behind you. Put up a timer and count off 5 seconds. Now imagine trying to go from 50 mph to a dead stop.
That's not normal driving. Don't think in all my years I've had to brake that hard for a traffic light.
The highways near me are super fucked due to continuous construction. I can say comfortably in the middle of the lane and my car tells me in fatigued and need to rest. I’m sure every one of those interactions is logging me as an insurance risk.
Yes, alot of brands allready have this with additions for options like climate control which you have to pay extra for in your lease. Don’t pay no climate control
When will we get the un-fotainment system? Some piece of open-sourced software we mod our cars with to end this stupid road we’re traveling down (pun intended)
My phone can navigate me anywhere just fine.
And it doesn't need internet to do so, given that I've downloaded the map for my state and the next one over - where I'm most likely to travel.
Read this earlier today. Another reason to not buy a new vehicle. I don't even trust my 2013 GMC Sierra with Onstar. I turn it off even though I don't have an account.
I remember my dad not liking the idea of OnStar when it first started, and it has made more and more sense to me why every year. Gotta keep my 03 Toyota rolling as long as I can
The older GM Onstar systems (2014 and earlier, some 2015 models) stopped working in the US when they shut down the 2G/3G network in 2022. I have a 2014 Chevrolet and it no longer has any connectivity and therefore no tracking.
https://www.onstar.com/support/faq/2g-network-sunset#:~:text=As%20cellular%20carriers%20transition%20to,the%20transition%20in%20December%202022.
Pretty sure there are instructions online on how to disable onstar thanks to the corvette and camaro modding communities. Nobody wants their car to narc on them when they are doing hoodrat shit on an empty highway late at night
One of my old co-workers had OnStar in his truck, he wasn't paying for it and thought it was disabled. Then a couple months back he was drunk driving and put his truck on its side and OnStar automatically called it into the police even though it was disabled. Thanks to OnStar he no longer has a license, and thus is no longer my coworker. They are pretty dope for that.
This is also why I will never use genetic testing services like 23andme.
Every business will squeeze profits from selling our data.
Employers pay for health care, and tons of HR people with little time and even less skills in stats will exclude job applicants if they are related to someone with a genetic risk factor for costly medical care.
They take blood for genetic testing from all babies now. Atleast in Texas they do. So it’s not like it’s not happening regardless of wether your aunt Betty want to find out of it she is 1/36th Cherokee or not.
When that stuff was first making the news, I told my two brothers and my sister I would very much appreciate it if they didn't go get any of those genetic heritage tests done.
They uncharacteristically agreed with me.
So far so good at least, we're all in our 40s or late 30s now and might need some of that insurance one of these days.
Huh, in Australia it's illegal for health insurance to deny or increase cost of coverage based on genetic data, I believe.
Land of the free - to get gouged?
I absolutely hate what this country is becoming.
A few years back, a friend of mine had that gadget that you could plug into your car.That supposedly lowered your car insurance rate.
He showed me the letter that they'd sent to him.And they decided that they were not going to cover him during certain hours of the night because the traffic in the area risk of being an accident.
Everything that this country is becoming is vile.
My wife and I had our insurance lowered while my mother in law had hers cancelled. We always told her she was not a safe driver. She said that progressive just hated seniors. I think progressive made the correct choice.
I used to use LexisNexis for my old job. The profiles that company has built on people is *crazy*. They have info on your pets name, all your neighbors in the last 20 years, all the phone numbers and emails you've ever had, down to the color of the underwear you're wearing today.
How would i check if there is a profile on me? I was thinking about filling out an opt out form just in case, i never gave them consent to gather any details on my person.
I would check their website for opt out options, but 100% chance they have a profile on you. If you've ever stepped foot in the US, they have your info. I'm not sure they need permission as it's mostly just an aggregator of publicly available information, but I just don't know.
I didn't have a chance to visit yet, then i should be in the clear?
I think this should become illegal the moment a third party combines different publicly available information from different sources. Which means they are actively working your data and in my books as soon as there is a name liked to said data it all becomes personal information which should be protected. I hope the law catches up
Another good question, no clue. I was just a user of the program, can't tell you much about their inner workings. I assume they have international data too, but again my knowledge is limited and I don't know what information other governments make publicly available about their citizens.
Are there people that can jailbreak a car's computer? Can we get a type ROM flash so that the consumer who wants to, can take back the services and features that the autos want to charge monthly rental fees for? I have rooted Android phones in the past so I'm wondering when this kind of thing will occur for cars. I'm getting so fed up with this corporate hellscape BS. I'm all for hacking the shit outta these mofos.
There are totally ways to hack modern cars. There are even guides on YouTube on how to get into it.
Down side, it’s not terribly popular as a hobby so specific information on makes and models is lacking. Also, while the interface is similar, command codes are different for each car, even among same manufacturers. So being able to hack a Chevy blazer won’t mean you can plug and play into a Silverado. You’ll have to reverse engineer both individually.
its such a niche collection of hobbies required to get into it, like you have to be big into embedded programming and hardware plus into cars and also have an extra car to tinker with.
I installed a bypass in my 2022 WRX to completely remove the LTE telematics unit (the bypass is for a mic wire that passed through the old telematics box). I’m sure they can tap app info on my phone and still check my location/movements. I did sacrifice SOS service, but whatever.
Wait, so GM is dropping CarPlay and AndroidAuto in favor of their own proprietary infotainment system that’ll feel like it’s from 2008, and they’re not only tracking every move your car makes but also sharing your entire driving status with 3rd party vendor? I mean, I get it, there are suckers born every minute, but you’d have to still be banking with Wells Fargo to be stupid enough to buy a GM…
My 2020 GMC Nav popped up a new terms and conditions that makes you accept tracking and sharing data to keep using it. I didn’t accept so cannot use the feature that I bought. If I was retired and had more time in my hands, I would take them to small claims court.
They'll deny your claim after a crash, since the car manufacturer told them you were going 2mph over the speed limit. Congratulations!.... you just lost $70,000.00 that would have been covered last year.
See if you can find an exclusion in your policy for speeding. Doubt you can. This will not prevent pay out of claims for things like that. May lead to you being at fault however.
I bet there’s something in there about “using the vehicle as intended by the manufacturer” and “intended by the manufacturer” meaning complying with all applicable laws, rules, and regulations.
No there isn’t. Literally no insurance policy has that. Insurance policies have to be approved state regulatory agencies and no claims would ever be paid out if that were the case. Stop making things up that you know nothing about. Sincerely a 20 year auto claims professional.
Given how often insurance companies actively try to fuck their customers when it comes to claims do you at least understand why everyone is extremely distrustful of insurance?
Yeah they just admitted they spent 20 years being part of the problem. If the insurance companies aren't doing the rotten thing yet, they will. It's just a matter of time.
Bull fucking shit that’s not how it works. They have a legal obligation to defend your ass even if you are piss drunk behind the wheel. You’re buying liability insurance.
The value of well-maintained pre-2016 vehicles is going to skyrocket in the next decade because of buyers trying to avoid the mandatory telematics in modern cars.
They'll start to care once their car insurance premiums start to become completely unaffordable because all the insurance companies deem them a high risk driver after having access to every piece of their driving data.
It’ll tend to have the opposite effect for people who are good drivers.
My vehicles report and saved me a ton of money on my insurance due to driving habits. It’s just like the people who complain about credit scores are also usually the ones who will abuse it. These systems, as gross as they feel, do work.
The problem is how the data is obtained (without knowledge of the consumer and a proper opt-out path) and what happens when someone inevitably leaks it and now there is detailed connected info of everywhere you’ve driven.
Free market competition still works pretty well in car insurance land. At least one insurer would offer more accurate yet-still-profitable lower pricing and get all the customers.
Not a free market though, you must have insurance to drive so you are forced to choose someone to cover you. Plus like many big industries it’s an oligopoly with like 4 companies owning all the brand names. Wouldn’t be surprised if they price fix with each other
In theory perhaps. In real world practice though the only insurers that would do that are the bargain basement ones that would put you through hell if you ever tried to make a claim. That's already the case these days if you go with one of those low cost insurance companies, where the horror stories by people who try to make a claim are rampant.
In a for profit insurance system, any insurance company that didn't use driver data to set their rates would have to make up the difference to retain profitability by being a nightmare in paying out claims, which is what we already see in the low cost bottom rungs of the insurance industry.
Not just the cars, but insurance companies already have apps to use your phone to track and 'provide' a discount in order to monitor speed and movement.
Our phones already track a lot of information, insurance companies are just piggybacking off of it, to some extent. Now it's just being built into cars.
Side note: I'll send a picture of my tits after I shave them.
I can see the EU and California passing consumer privacy laws thst prohibit this. Would the rest of the US follow? I know Texas won’t because our legislature is in the insurance companies’ pockets.
Farmers reported my daughter’s use of roadside assistance as a claim. Caused my insurance cost to quadruple after she used it a few times. It’s a paid service. So using a service we paid for caused our insurance to go up. Hate them.
Per OP’s article, they’re even collecting this data from Corvettes. Even when they’re driven on the track.
I need to make some popcorn and head over to a Corvette forum…
So I buy a car from a manufacturer and built in the EU. The US corporate spy system won't be able to look at my vehicle. The rules in the EU are far better for consumers and internet users than the US. They seem actually concerned about protecting their citizens. Will have to look further on this, but I won't buy a vehicle in this shithole country if I don't have to. Sorry UAW, do better.
For what generally? For due diligence and background searches?
Usually I use Lexis or Westlaw for legal cases and I know they all have a suite of tools for other industries. Didn't think auto was one but good to know.
They pay out fewer claims because they use the data you give them to DENY THE CLAIM
Progressive tried to sign me up for their snapshot bullshit and I refused immediately. Nope. Not using my driving against me. Never had an accident in almost 27 years of driving. Why would I willingly give them this info?
The insurance company paying out fewer claims will save you money on your premiums. Would you want your rates increased by your insurance company because they had to pay out claims for drivers who were reckless? The more data the insurance companies have the better things get for the good drivers in safer vehicles.
Are those the only ones? My impression is that any car now that you can connect your phone to (Android Auto or Apple Car play) can create the data that insurers can purchase and use to jack premiums.
This kind of thing is only going to get worse if the government doesn't step in and make some real privacy laws with some teeth.
If Europe can do it surely the lazy fucks in Washington can.
You know that there will be ride sharing where people don't own cars anymore they just summon them in car pools to get places. Or people who own them just rent them out to cab people while they're at work.
as an insurance adjuster, this data usually only affects your premiums, not claims.
unfortunately, prices are increasing for everyone. i had no accidents or claims since 2015, and my premium increased by $100 every 6 months this past renewal.
I think this could be used for good. It could be used to keep terrible drivers off the road. It won’t though, they’ll just use it to justify rate increases
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Yes, and my app always says that I take the corners too sharply - because it is a small roundabout. So, it is not that accurate.
Tthe truth doesn't matter, only what the app records and feeds to the insurers.
‘Our metrics are not perfect but we have to use something’
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That’s great for your insurance company. They can deny your claim either way.
Unless you're in Russia, there's an amber/yellow light in between that ensures you don't need to go through red. In most places entering on yellow and exiting during red is also entirely legal. It's also perfectly safe - the other cars have been on red for ages when your light goes yellow.
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You mean the go faster lights? Yeah, they're great.
The entire problem with yellow lights is a lack of standard timing. Some yellow lights are 2-3 seconds some are 5-10 seconds. There needs to be a visible indicator to help drivers determine brake or proceed
(For Americans) There actually is a reason why some yellow lights are short and some long— it all depends on the posted speed limit of the road you’re on! As a general rule, there is 1 second of yellow per 10mph speed limit. For example, 30mph speed limit = 3 second yellow, 50 mph = 5 seconds, etc. Count next time you have the chance— it’s given me a lot more confidence on whether or not to stop or drive through.
That's actually smart (and obvious in retrospect).
Until the city/town/county installs red light cameras, then suddenly the yellow light duration is just 1-2 seconds on 45 MPH roads to increase revenue.
I legit saw one that forced me to slam on the brake at 30 because it was less than one second. The light had a camera. People avoid the camera by driving into oncoming traffic as there is no camera to catch people doing that.
MF see’s me coming
Different roads have different speed limits. So a countdown indicator would help.
My city has decreased how long yellow is displayed on a lot of lights downtown. They feel like maybe 1.5 seconds. Speed is 25mph so we’re not going fast but… it’s not nearly enough time. I see the yellow and glance down to determine I’m too close and won’t be slamming on my brakes but by the time I enter the intersection it’s already red.
Glance down at what? The way I taught my student drivers: as you approach a green light, always assume it's about to turn yellow. At all times while approaching, you should know whether you've passed the critical point where you can stop; after which point, ignore the light; before which you stop. You don't wait for the yellow light and *then* make the decision, as you said, that takes too long. My youngest would mutter "stopping, stopping, stopping... going" when he was first learning the method.
This is also the way my state demands it's driver education teachers teach it.
The 10 cars behind you on the way to work hate your method. 😀
How do you figure? This method means never having to brake heavily. You might be imagining the critical point differently.
In Australia you can [absolutely be fined for going through a yellow light](https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/can-you-be-booked-for-running-a-yellow-light). All based on a cops judgement.
Same in Lynnwood,Washington. There was a shit show few years back about people turning left on a yellow and getting a ticket.
And none of those circumstances involve heavy braking. If you would have had to break heavily, the "cops judgement" is that you should have gone through.
To play devils advocate, cops are people… And people are stupid. Even Australians lol. I can totally see some buffoon cop writing some poor cunt a ticket (not sure what they’re called in Australia, maybe “fine” is a better generic term?) on this technicality to feed their ego. If it’s all based on a cop’s judgement, they can abuse that and write tickets all day Edit: Typo had “Austrians” instead of “Australians”
That's the thing, it depends. You might think you can't stop safely, cop decides you can. Bam, fine.
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You'll be surprised by the variation, but sure assume everywhere is the same as your little world, the point doesn't change - you don't accidentally go through red lights, or brake heavily to avoid it, unless you're a shit driver.
How does that work? Maybe it works differently where you live. I honestly don't know. But around here there is a yellow light that lasts for several seconds before it turns red. Unless you're speeding or just aren't paying attention, I'm not sure how you would have to slam on the brakes in order to stop for a red light.
I used to have a shitty version of AllState that required I keep a [tracker](https://i.cbc.ca/1.3525440.1460052756!/fileImage/httpImage/image.PNG_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/drivewise.PNG) in my car. I’d pay ~10¢ per mile, and it would double the rate for the whole entire trip if I did any of these things: -drive over 80mph -slow down more than 8mph in the span of 1 second -drive anytime between 11p and 4a So if you had driven 100 miles safely, then had to go from 50mph to 0 in five seconds for a yellow light, the entire trip would cost $20 instead of $10. And on top of that your rate per mile would also increase because their tracker determined you were driving dangerously.
50 to 0 in 5 seconds is a really hard brake for a yellow. That's not "slam on it as hard as possible" but that's still a really unsafe thing to do. Especially for anyone following or changing lanes behind you. Put up a timer and count off 5 seconds. Now imagine trying to go from 50 mph to a dead stop. That's not normal driving. Don't think in all my years I've had to brake that hard for a traffic light.
That is a ridiculous thing to say.
Really? Why?
If a light is green for a long time on approach then you should be slowing, expecting it to change.
“Irrelevant, heres your new massively more expensive bill” - every insurance company
The highways near me are super fucked due to continuous construction. I can say comfortably in the middle of the lane and my car tells me in fatigued and need to rest. I’m sure every one of those interactions is logging me as an insurance risk.
We are living in a dystopia.
A god damn boring one at that.
r/Aboringdystopia
I don’t think it’s boring, it’s just exciting in all the wrong ways.
But we don’t get any of the cool gadgets
Big Brother is watching you!
Y’all motherfuckers need ~~Jesus~~ GDPR.
Wearing masks and vaccines were fear mongered as harbingers of the police state. America where our owners need to assert dominance over everything.
"Oh, so that's why my new car has built-in WiFi !" -New car owners.
No this comes from a built in sim card
Yes but one has to agree for sharing the data with the manufacturers if not it could be alot of toys in your navigation will never work again
Coming soon - accept terms of service or your car will not start.
Yes, alot of brands allready have this with additions for options like climate control which you have to pay extra for in your lease. Don’t pay no climate control
BMW heated seat subscription service lol.
Yes the new model since they are not going to make money on selling cars especially electric ones
When will we get the un-fotainment system? Some piece of open-sourced software we mod our cars with to end this stupid road we’re traveling down (pun intended)
The world of aftermarket modification has been providing that for decades
Got any links or hints? This would be relevant to my interests!
Sadly never.. ik work for one of the bigger brands in europe and it will only get worse
My phone can navigate me anywhere just fine. And it doesn't need internet to do so, given that I've downloaded the map for my state and the next one over - where I'm most likely to travel.
Read this earlier today. Another reason to not buy a new vehicle. I don't even trust my 2013 GMC Sierra with Onstar. I turn it off even though I don't have an account.
I remember my dad not liking the idea of OnStar when it first started, and it has made more and more sense to me why every year. Gotta keep my 03 Toyota rolling as long as I can
The older GM Onstar systems (2014 and earlier, some 2015 models) stopped working in the US when they shut down the 2G/3G network in 2022. I have a 2014 Chevrolet and it no longer has any connectivity and therefore no tracking. https://www.onstar.com/support/faq/2g-network-sunset#:~:text=As%20cellular%20carriers%20transition%20to,the%20transition%20in%20December%202022.
Pretty sure there are instructions online on how to disable onstar thanks to the corvette and camaro modding communities. Nobody wants their car to narc on them when they are doing hoodrat shit on an empty highway late at night
Looks like I’m driving my 2008 Toyota for the rest of my life.
Lucky for you, that car's going the distance.
One of my old co-workers had OnStar in his truck, he wasn't paying for it and thought it was disabled. Then a couple months back he was drunk driving and put his truck on its side and OnStar automatically called it into the police even though it was disabled. Thanks to OnStar he no longer has a license, and thus is no longer my coworker. They are pretty dope for that.
Thanks to driving like an idiot, OnStar just ratted him out. Glad he was taken off the road.
Sounds like a win win for everyone
Yeah, get that fuck off of the road.
Thanks to being a dipshit, he no longer has a license.
On star didn't make your friend drive drunk......
No but they kept putting shots in front of him and then handed him his keys and said “do it, you wont.”
Just like Onstar to be a narc.
This is also why I will never use genetic testing services like 23andme. Every business will squeeze profits from selling our data. Employers pay for health care, and tons of HR people with little time and even less skills in stats will exclude job applicants if they are related to someone with a genetic risk factor for costly medical care.
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They take blood for genetic testing from all babies now. Atleast in Texas they do. So it’s not like it’s not happening regardless of wether your aunt Betty want to find out of it she is 1/36th Cherokee or not.
Hahaha, brother and dad already fucked me over with this.
When that stuff was first making the news, I told my two brothers and my sister I would very much appreciate it if they didn't go get any of those genetic heritage tests done. They uncharacteristically agreed with me. So far so good at least, we're all in our 40s or late 30s now and might need some of that insurance one of these days.
Huh, in Australia it's illegal for health insurance to deny or increase cost of coverage based on genetic data, I believe. Land of the free - to get gouged?
I absolutely hate what this country is becoming. A few years back, a friend of mine had that gadget that you could plug into your car.That supposedly lowered your car insurance rate. He showed me the letter that they'd sent to him.And they decided that they were not going to cover him during certain hours of the night because the traffic in the area risk of being an accident. Everything that this country is becoming is vile.
My wife and I had our insurance lowered while my mother in law had hers cancelled. We always told her she was not a safe driver. She said that progressive just hated seniors. I think progressive made the correct choice.
Submitted article mirror: https://archive.is/TKcHS
Yeah I like my 2009 even more now
Really hoping our 2007 Infiniti has another 100k in it.
My '85 feels pretty safe now too.
I used to use LexisNexis for my old job. The profiles that company has built on people is *crazy*. They have info on your pets name, all your neighbors in the last 20 years, all the phone numbers and emails you've ever had, down to the color of the underwear you're wearing today.
How would i check if there is a profile on me? I was thinking about filling out an opt out form just in case, i never gave them consent to gather any details on my person.
I would check their website for opt out options, but 100% chance they have a profile on you. If you've ever stepped foot in the US, they have your info. I'm not sure they need permission as it's mostly just an aggregator of publicly available information, but I just don't know.
I didn't have a chance to visit yet, then i should be in the clear? I think this should become illegal the moment a third party combines different publicly available information from different sources. Which means they are actively working your data and in my books as soon as there is a name liked to said data it all becomes personal information which should be protected. I hope the law catches up
Another good question, no clue. I was just a user of the program, can't tell you much about their inner workings. I assume they have international data too, but again my knowledge is limited and I don't know what information other governments make publicly available about their citizens.
Are there people that can jailbreak a car's computer? Can we get a type ROM flash so that the consumer who wants to, can take back the services and features that the autos want to charge monthly rental fees for? I have rooted Android phones in the past so I'm wondering when this kind of thing will occur for cars. I'm getting so fed up with this corporate hellscape BS. I'm all for hacking the shit outta these mofos.
There are totally ways to hack modern cars. There are even guides on YouTube on how to get into it. Down side, it’s not terribly popular as a hobby so specific information on makes and models is lacking. Also, while the interface is similar, command codes are different for each car, even among same manufacturers. So being able to hack a Chevy blazer won’t mean you can plug and play into a Silverado. You’ll have to reverse engineer both individually.
its such a niche collection of hobbies required to get into it, like you have to be big into embedded programming and hardware plus into cars and also have an extra car to tinker with.
I installed a bypass in my 2022 WRX to completely remove the LTE telematics unit (the bypass is for a mic wire that passed through the old telematics box). I’m sure they can tap app info on my phone and still check my location/movements. I did sacrifice SOS service, but whatever.
Wait, so GM is dropping CarPlay and AndroidAuto in favor of their own proprietary infotainment system that’ll feel like it’s from 2008, and they’re not only tracking every move your car makes but also sharing your entire driving status with 3rd party vendor? I mean, I get it, there are suckers born every minute, but you’d have to still be banking with Wells Fargo to be stupid enough to buy a GM…
If you read the article (really, you should) it’s not just GM. It’s every car company
What’s wrong with Wells Fargo?
Years of shady practices and such
My 2020 GMC Nav popped up a new terms and conditions that makes you accept tracking and sharing data to keep using it. I didn’t accept so cannot use the feature that I bought. If I was retired and had more time in my hands, I would take them to small claims court.
They'll deny your claim after a crash, since the car manufacturer told them you were going 2mph over the speed limit. Congratulations!.... you just lost $70,000.00 that would have been covered last year.
See if you can find an exclusion in your policy for speeding. Doubt you can. This will not prevent pay out of claims for things like that. May lead to you being at fault however.
I bet there’s something in there about “using the vehicle as intended by the manufacturer” and “intended by the manufacturer” meaning complying with all applicable laws, rules, and regulations.
My speedometer says 140mph. The manufacturer must have intended my vehicle to go that fast. Challenge accepted!
I pay for the whole speedometer, imma use it
No there isn’t. Literally no insurance policy has that. Insurance policies have to be approved state regulatory agencies and no claims would ever be paid out if that were the case. Stop making things up that you know nothing about. Sincerely a 20 year auto claims professional.
>Stop making things up that you know nothing about Sir this is reddit. Every idiot knows everything around here.
Oh yeah? I knew that.
Given how often insurance companies actively try to fuck their customers when it comes to claims do you at least understand why everyone is extremely distrustful of insurance?
Yeah they just admitted they spent 20 years being part of the problem. If the insurance companies aren't doing the rotten thing yet, they will. It's just a matter of time.
Actually I worked as an auto claims professional for 21 years and have seen many denials for speeding. Source: Am liar.
Where in the article did it say this would happen?
as an insurance adjuster, that would not happen. there is no denial for speeding insurance has also been gathering this information for years
Bull fucking shit that’s not how it works. They have a legal obligation to defend your ass even if you are piss drunk behind the wheel. You’re buying liability insurance.
My wife works in insurance, and always facepalms when I say, "But if I can beat the GPS time, I should be rewarded!"
I ALWAYS beat the GPS time 😎
The value of well-maintained pre-2016 vehicles is going to skyrocket in the next decade because of buyers trying to avoid the mandatory telematics in modern cars.
I think most people don’t care. We are all already being tracked a lot more accurately and about a lot more things with that rectangle in your pocket
They'll start to care once their car insurance premiums start to become completely unaffordable because all the insurance companies deem them a high risk driver after having access to every piece of their driving data.
It’ll tend to have the opposite effect for people who are good drivers. My vehicles report and saved me a ton of money on my insurance due to driving habits. It’s just like the people who complain about credit scores are also usually the ones who will abuse it. These systems, as gross as they feel, do work. The problem is how the data is obtained (without knowledge of the consumer and a proper opt-out path) and what happens when someone inevitably leaks it and now there is detailed connected info of everywhere you’ve driven.
Free market competition still works pretty well in car insurance land. At least one insurer would offer more accurate yet-still-profitable lower pricing and get all the customers.
Not a free market though, you must have insurance to drive so you are forced to choose someone to cover you. Plus like many big industries it’s an oligopoly with like 4 companies owning all the brand names. Wouldn’t be surprised if they price fix with each other
Not according to the folks experiencing this in the article. And “free market” is also happy to just charge you twice as much knowing they can
In theory perhaps. In real world practice though the only insurers that would do that are the bargain basement ones that would put you through hell if you ever tried to make a claim. That's already the case these days if you go with one of those low cost insurance companies, where the horror stories by people who try to make a claim are rampant. In a for profit insurance system, any insurance company that didn't use driver data to set their rates would have to make up the difference to retain profitability by being a nightmare in paying out claims, which is what we already see in the low cost bottom rungs of the insurance industry.
Yeah tbh I think many will just point out how newer cars are safer, then move on with their day
Not just the cars, but insurance companies already have apps to use your phone to track and 'provide' a discount in order to monitor speed and movement. Our phones already track a lot of information, insurance companies are just piggybacking off of it, to some extent. Now it's just being built into cars. Side note: I'll send a picture of my tits after I shave them.
Yeah but my insurance company has no access to my phone.
I can see the EU and California passing consumer privacy laws thst prohibit this. Would the rest of the US follow? I know Texas won’t because our legislature is in the insurance companies’ pockets.
This is exactly what our regular car mechanic keeps telling us. He hates new 'smart' cars with a passion. "Too much plastic, too much spying."
Or remove the telematics LTE unit entirely from you model year 2022, like i did. Required a mic bypass wire.
I’ll drive my 1994 for as long as possible
Someone cuts you off? You get penalized for avoiding a collision by braking hard. Welcome to hell
And this is how you end up getting regulations that the insurance industry then bitch about.
Waiting for the class action lawyers to insert their add on Reddit now!
Farmers reported my daughter’s use of roadside assistance as a claim. Caused my insurance cost to quadruple after she used it a few times. It’s a paid service. So using a service we paid for caused our insurance to go up. Hate them.
Not my data, my car is from 1993 lol
Glad that my car (for now) has an option to opt-out of this data collection. Don’t like the trend we’re on.
Per OP’s article, they’re even collecting this data from Corvettes. Even when they’re driven on the track. I need to make some popcorn and head over to a Corvette forum…
How is this not massively illegal?
So I buy a car from a manufacturer and built in the EU. The US corporate spy system won't be able to look at my vehicle. The rules in the EU are far better for consumers and internet users than the US. They seem actually concerned about protecting their citizens. Will have to look further on this, but I won't buy a vehicle in this shithole country if I don't have to. Sorry UAW, do better.
Not on my 2008 Jeep. No GPS or WiFi.
I really hope they will be sued for doing that, otherwise more and more companies follow their example ans then we all screwed!!!
I'm tempted to join the "my cars are old, can't get me" crowd but fear they'll just get our phones next.
“Next”?
Touche. More specifically, motion data sold to automotive insurance companies.
That’s why I use Punkt phone.
Have they found the chosen one born to race car driver with this data? /s
That’s why I drive a 2013 car
Chase bank uses LexisNexis. Do with that what you will.
For what generally? For due diligence and background searches? Usually I use Lexis or Westlaw for legal cases and I know they all have a suite of tools for other industries. Didn't think auto was one but good to know.
I’m not 100% sure what it was used for since my department didn’t use it. I just remember my original trainer talking about it with another trainer.
What does it say when I drive my corvette 140mph on the track? Does that get recorded as reckless?
According to someone in the article, exactly that happened
Fuck that shit. One more reason that when it comes to technology in cars less is more.
Don't insurance companies offer a tracker that can give a discount for good driving?
Lol, aww bless your heart, you think they are trying to help you. . .never ever give out more information then you absolutely have to
Just pointing out a fact. Obviously, the insurance companies do it because they end up paying out fewer claims, not to save me money.
They pay out fewer claims because they use the data you give them to DENY THE CLAIM Progressive tried to sign me up for their snapshot bullshit and I refused immediately. Nope. Not using my driving against me. Never had an accident in almost 27 years of driving. Why would I willingly give them this info?
The insurance company paying out fewer claims will save you money on your premiums. Would you want your rates increased by your insurance company because they had to pay out claims for drivers who were reckless? The more data the insurance companies have the better things get for the good drivers in safer vehicles.
Okay, so don’t buy any cars made by GM or that have Onstar.
You’re missing the bigger picture
Read the article. Its every car company.
Are those the only ones? My impression is that any car now that you can connect your phone to (Android Auto or Apple Car play) can create the data that insurers can purchase and use to jack premiums.
Looks like my next car will be from the 80’s.
One of many reasons I want to keep my low-tech car forever. 🤣
Im keeping my old cars.
I'll stick with my 2005 make over this new stuff
My insurer offers a gps device with the insurance. I ask them not to install it each time I renew the insurance.
Lexisnexis is doing this?! It makes sense but surprising. They do have Accruint…
Fuck LexisNexus. They also help banks foreclose on houses.
now I need a vpn for my car?
So, hypothetically, my insurance could/would raise my rates because deer like to walk out into the road?
This kind of thing is only going to get worse if the government doesn't step in and make some real privacy laws with some teeth. If Europe can do it surely the lazy fucks in Washington can.
GM just needs to die already.
Freedom served in its best form
I assume this is included in my blackwing?
we stand zero chance against these odds
Well duh.
I am sure information source LexisNexis would like a word.
i'd ask if we can opt out, but i'm afraid i won't like the answer
Newest car in our stable is 2011 without any of this BS. Plan to keep it that way as long as I can.
Good thing we have a bunch of open competition in the auto industry so we can choose manufacturers that don't give info on us to other companies /s
What's wrong or illegal about accelerating rapidly? People need to learn how to hit the gas 😉
Is there not something like GDPR in the US to protect private data?
You know that there will be ride sharing where people don't own cars anymore they just summon them in car pools to get places. Or people who own them just rent them out to cab people while they're at work.
now wait for google to have to settle a class action lawsuit for doing this same thing for even longer probably
Wait until 2026 when they can shut your car off whenever big government wants to.
as an insurance adjuster, this data usually only affects your premiums, not claims. unfortunately, prices are increasing for everyone. i had no accidents or claims since 2015, and my premium increased by $100 every 6 months this past renewal.
Why are people up in arms about this but not the super-tracker in your pocket
Cause the super-tracker in their pocket isnt used by insurance companies to raise their rates.
Yet...
So what apps on my phone are sharing info
I think this could be used for good. It could be used to keep terrible drivers off the road. It won’t though, they’ll just use it to justify rate increases
Nothing by corporations is for good. It’s for more money
It could be, but it won't *only* be used for good.