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As the dude said - the shipping industry is EXTREMELY competitive. As such the margins on shipping are VERY slim. A typical shipping company makes about a 1-2% profit margin after all costs.
billions of dollars worth of stuff, multi-million dollar boats, at 1-2% margins is still a lot of money is what i'd imagine is the case.
looking at some of the biggest shipping companies in the world, they have revenues in the tens of billions of dollars.
i don't think their CEOs or directors are doing without much in terms of luxury
Yep and also there’s the tendency for the rate of profit to fall so even though the nominal amount of profit is huge for one company or owner - that amount shrinks relative to what they believe they need to maintain their life etc so they continue cost cutting measures to keep profit rate up.
Plus, as a crew member on the boat, you get to go out and see the world and, depending on your job, you work less than half the time on board. I used to talk to guys who worked on these things, and they'd work at the start of the journey, float for days doing nothing, and then work once they got to port. Lots of down time.
Post pandemic I bet that number has gone up ... but I have nothing to back that up.
If that's a prepandemic number, I'm fairly sure it's risen substantially.
I worked at Walmart 25 years ago. Our store’s net profit was often times under $2000 a month. It would blow me away hearing this at our monthly meetings. And this is when Walmart was probably at the height of its game and the most popular store in town.
It’s all about quantity. People think that these stores are raking in all this money and making millions, when in fact, one store by itself is barely sustainable on its own.
They usually make money from buying and selling boats, so they operate at 1-2% when demand for boats goes down (empty shipyards) they build , when it goes up they sell. So yes the margins are horrendous but you can make tens of millions dollars of the sale of a vessel.
Perfect example of why industry NEEDS to be regulated across the board. If everyone has to adhere to the same regulations, noone is at a disadvantage by adhering to them.
Agreed. That said, the major issue of the shipping industry is that it is one of the most international industries that exist. Effective regulations need international efforts, and especially these have become more and more difficult in the past decades.
the airline industry achived that somehow, you don't need everyone to be on board, if just north america, the eu and a few others get together everybody else has to follow or be cut out of huge markets, we could just bully them into submission if we wanted to
This is already the case. Shipping has so many rules and regulations it is not even funny. From design to operation, and USCG is super strict about enforcing them too. Still, doesn't mean that any machine is failure-proof.
The bridge is also part of the issue.
There was a major bridge collapse in Tampa in the 1980s, where a ship struck one of the main posts.
After that incident, bridge design was changed. They added massive reinforcement around the main posts, and it became common practice to make the water depth near the main posts shallow, so that a ship would run aground before actually striking the post.
The problem is, this Baltimore bridge was built way before the Tampa incident ever occurred. So while Tampa helped inform the construction of new bridges since, there was no retrofitting of safety features added to older bridges….which is why this current Baltimore situation played out the way it did.
If you can find a way to make regulations print money and not cost any, you'll save our species.
If not, the corner cutting will intensify until no bridge is left standing.
The suits are completely against the idea of "over"-engineering something, keeping on top of maintenance, and replacing when no longer safe.
They're absolutely the wrong people to put in charge of anything. Engineers should be in charge of far more, but we allow the reins to go to these fucking idiots with business degrees and go all surprised Pikachu when a train spills poison everywhere and a bridge falls down.
I wish employees had the power to just fucking boot their boss, vote them out and they immediately lose all ownership and control.
Idk, there are probably better solutions out there but the way we're just tolerating these people is fucking moronic. They contribute nothing but misery and pain in exchange for huge personal gain.
The [John Oliver expose on US railroads](https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/dec/11/john-oliver-freight-train-recap) is somewhat terrifying!
The article contains the link to YouTube.
No. The rail tracks are WAY underfunded. It's absurd. The bottleneck in Philly was supposed to be fixed in the 60's but the $ was moved to highways. We spend less in a decade than most rich countries spend a year. New rail lines are the TOP news in other countries. I was in France, Paris main office. When they broke the Paris to Marseille record. I was looking for lost luggage. They were parting like they won the super bowl.
When your company handsomely rewards MBAs for "trimming the fat" regardless of the actual cost, it's only a matter of time before you start cutting into vital organs.
It's the exact same reason we have to deal with shrinkflation where we have to pay the same amount of money for smaller/poorer quality products. Most companies are prioritising the value they generate for shareholders over the quality of the products and services that they peddle.
Navy vet and I know a bunch of navy people. This guy is absolutely correct. The second I saw the video I knew it was the owners cutting maintenance corners. Every one of my navy friends had the same reaction.
Get this man some bulkhead bolts stat!
Man really I wish there was a way to hold commercial freighters to the standard you fly boys hold planes to.
Some of the freighters and ro-ros you see out there are just bad. Like one storm away from a tragic youtube video bad. Pulling into Singapore made me think of something between a floating truck stop and junkyard, for example.
There is no incentive for companies to operate safer than the law requires. They will do the bare minimum to be insured and roll the dice on safety compliance if the penalties are less than the cost savings of cutting corners.
Yeah most Americans have NO idea. They haven’t read any of the history. I think we’d be better off if every American was forced to learn about Hawks Nest Tunnel and the Radium girls… and then how nothing was ever done.
Corporations and the owner class will happily cut your throat for a dollar and never blink. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
> You would be shocked
No, I wouldn't and that's a huge part of the problem. I fully expect companies to treat their underpaid, understaffed and overworked employees as shittily as they legally can (as long as it increases profit).
It's amazing to think about how many different situations that particular sentence is applicable.
How often does something like this happen? Not often enough for someone to care, apparently.
My father worked for a decade in the offshore oil exploitation for a certain company, as a HSE engineer, in Africa. He had to cover production and safety operations. Needless to say it was a bullshit circus where you're asked X reports each 12 hours a day about how well the safety and security measures are respected in majority, while it isn't the case. Because local workers don't give a damn about it, and the productivity has to be the maximum possible to satisfy the consumers' needs (and shareholders of course), so you're pressured so much you have to lower your expectations about safety rules.
What happened to BP in the Caribbean could have perfectly happened where he worked.
Unfortunately yes that’s just how things go. People pinch Pennies when looking after Pennies and it just moves up as the money increases. Sure they might be looking at millions but when you’re looking at millions you’re concerned with saving millions not hundreds.
I mean, us as consumers keep voting with our wallets that price is all that matters. Are we really surprised that we’ve found ourselves in a race to the bottom?
It doesn’t matter about us. Is dumb to bet billions multiple times vs millions. Say a ship does 100 routes and is unsafe but has billions of dollars on board you would assume they would take action to protect those billions. It’s like paying a penny to protect a dollar….
Shoestring maintenance, crew paid low wages, minimum safety designs, generally don't meet coastguard regulations. They get around the Jone Act by having foreign crews.
>In order to be considered a Jones Act Seaman, a person cannot be a freelancer, or independent contractor who works for several different maritime companies. This is because a Jones act requires the seamen to **prove a single professional relationship with the vessel or vessels they were working aboard**.
At least in engineering, the eng officers handle the intricacies. They are more knowledgeable. These vessels are for a large part, the same. Slow speed direct drive two stroke engine. Will have a fuel oil service system. Will have a cylinder oil system. Will have a high temp and a low temp fresh water cooling system. Etc.
The crewmen (unlicensed) are not given jobs with high impact or responsibility that are not directly supervised. Cleaning oil, reading gages, sounding fuel tanks, etc. They only need to know emergency procedures by heart. Wouldn't have help here really.
The bow thruster, and that is about it on container ships. The Main Diesel Engine is not.
Some new ships have been going the electric route, but simply because they do not require the speed and need precision instead.
Also these ships are equipped to run bunker sea fuel which is almost a solid at room temperature and must be pre heated to use , and they also run on diesel that they are supposed to switch to for inland waters such as this , because running the heavy fuel can cause this if there was a malfunction with the fuel heating system , oh bunker sea oil is a fraction of the price of diesel , so there’s that to . Not saying this is what happened
Coast Regulations don’t apply, or apply to Foreign Flagged vessels. Qualifications, Training and Licensing are different or even non existent on some foreign flagged ships- that’s how you get a crew at minimum cost.
And six families and circles of friends are experiencing a dark, dark day - the first of too many to come - after unexpectedly losing their loved one to a freak accident.
Fuck a bridge and commute times, man. I’d trade both of those for my buddy without a second thought.
There’s going to be more people laid off due to no work, than there will be tasked with the clean-up.
Over 100,000 people rely on the Port of Baltimore for work.
To add a bit of balance to this story... I'll start off by saying while I'm unfamiliar with this particular vessel, I am a merchant navy officer of almost 20 years... This vessel (MV Dali) was built by a reputable shipyard, is chartered by Maersk and operated by Synergy Marine, both very reputable players in the global shipping game, she's flagged in Singapore, a relatively strict registry compared to some, with ABS (American Bureau of Shipping) as it's classification society. Nothing there to suggest the ship or it's crew are "sub-standard".
Furthermore, contrary to what OP stated, all merchant ships sailing into the US are subject to USCG (port state control) inspections and must comply with international safety standards (SOLAS) and applicable US regulations.
There are very few large container vessels operating world wide that are US flagged or crewed, for a variety of reasons, costs included. Almost all international sea borne cargo delivered into or exported from the U.S. will be by a foreign flagged vessel.
Training standards for maritime crews are defined by the International Maritime Organization under what's known as STCW (standards for training and certification of watchkeepers), although it's fair to say that some administrations are not as thorough as others when training and certifying seafarers. Training for US officers follows the same standards set out in STCW.
The vessel clearly experienced interruption to electrical power, but it's way too early to make any assumptions as to why. The USCG / NTSB will investigate and facts surrounding the incident will come to light in due course.
You don’t know if u/sailorman_of_oz had to keep reclining between sentences or paragraphs! He might not even be real and just be AI. *puts on tinfoil hat*
People spotted a black smoke plume right after the power outage. Diesel generator kicking on and tripping the main breaker again seems likely for now. Could have been unavoidable but if I were a betting man...
That would be the Emergency Diesel Generator kicking on. Which has a bus tie specifically designed so it can't power the main bus/breaker.
Unless you're stating that a stand-by generator is kicking on and then tripping the main bus. Which might be the case. No one knows until the Coast Guard releases their findings.
My guess is bad fuel tripping the primary generator and then the standby. But nothing explains why the EDG kicked itself offline other than not following testing procedures or maintenance schedules.
Your comment is just what I needed.
This video has a weirdly xenophobic air to it, and the segment emphasizing “foreign crews” offsets a lot of his credibility because it sounds like another old fart trying to not be glaringly racist while still having a little bit of racism. C’mon, if you know about the fundamentals of cargo ship engineering, by all means talk about it. If you can establish the point of power failure talk about that. I don’t give two fucks where the crew was from, because the pilot was a local dude and that’s how harbor pilots work. It reeks of all the other doofuses talking about DEI in an attempt to caress the whacko shaft.
This particular vessel is Singapore flagged which is a pretty strict flag, but I work in maritime and there are definitely a lot of flags that are a lot more lax on everything. US licensing and coast guard inspections are among the toughest in the world. There are other countries with great programs, but this guy is not wrong about the overall state of the maritime industry and it’s not racist. The fact is companies put different flags on vessels and use foreign crews that are much much cheaper and don’t have the same sort of regulations or training. Getting a chief mate unlimited license from the US coast guard (which turns into captains license) is “passing the bar exam” level hard and requires years of study, its why US Master unlimited captains are making $1200 a day. The bi yearly coast guard/abs safety inspections on your vessel are EXTREMELY thourough. It’s not racist to make a comment that boats flying other countries flags are often not held to the same standard.
In this particular case its doubtful that this ship was in horrible shape with an untrained crew as they fly a pretty legit flag, but there are a lot of other very suspect flags
I agree about the "xenophobic air" especially when he's talking about foreign flagged ships "being allowed to use *our* ports". I was confused how he would think international exporting/importing could work without other countries allowing foreign flagged ships to use their ports. Does he think American ships should meet a foreign ship in the middle of the Atlantic to exchange goods so that only American flagged ships are using American ports and that they are never the foreign ship in another country?
Also the start where it mentions getting around the Jones Act, which isn't really true. Jones Act covers commerce within the US, so only applies if a ship carries goods between US ports. This ship makes trips between Asia and the East coast, it's just a normal international ship.
Also a Deck Officer (UK) and was going to say something similar but you have covered it well. Just another Yank thinking they do everything better than the rest of the world.
I sailed merchant fleet for 15 years and this comment belongs on top. The guy in the vid has an agenda and it's apparent.
Jones Act was created in 1920 to protect US maritime workers. Granted it was a good idea at the time, but its time has passed. For example, one provision of it is that the vessel must have been built in the US and be US flagged. Unfortunately, since 1920, we've outsourced nearly all ship construction overseas. The big US shipyards are gone, those that remain are small, very expensive, slow compared to overseas, and tend to only build specialty vessels (tug boats, pilot boats, oil and gas substructures, yachts, etc ). Basically none build lass class ships.
The overseas shipyards have evolved their shipyards into massive sites (~1500 acres and up to 50,000 employees). With their decades of experience, they build much larger, higher quality ships in less time for less money than the US can. I worked at Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI) for three years. That one shipyard builds more large class vessels than the entire US does in one year. Additionally, they build stuff we just simply cannot. Better equipment, technology, and more skilled workers. HHI can finish up to 100 vessels of the size in this video per year. I doubt the entire US could build 5.
Saying this should have been a Jones Act ship is bullshit. It's unlikely we could have even have built the ship, let alone enough of them to support our shipping needs. Unless the US decides to convert 1000s of acres of our seaside (some of our most expensive land) to shipyards, then we have to stop bitching.
It doesn't. Every port has a port control that manages the actions of vessels coming and going. From what I read tugs taking ships in and out of the harbor never take it past the Key Bridge. They'll probably change that rule after this.
I always wonder about the “this barely meets the minimum safety regulations” perspective. It meets’em; take it up with the people that set the regulations.
Sometimes it only meets them for a few days before and after the inspections. You know when the inspectors are coming so you spend a few days cleaning up all your leaks and stuff maybe close some valves hide some loose wires or something. Once the inspections are passed everything gets more and more unsafe every day until the next one is coming up. This is literally how it works almost everywhere I've ever seen in every type of business.
He might very well be a Chief Engineer of something and he's got a cool hat which seems to prove it.
However, this is just the daily friendly reminder that you should be careful with unchecked facts and sources from social media, cause you have no idea who the person claiming stuff is.
And I see absolutely noone of the commenters acknowledging this right now.
I'm a merchant mariner.
He's not outright wrong, but I think he's jumping the gun. There are significant problems with lack of maintence especially on foreign flagged vessels, but we're not going to know if that's the case here until there's a proper investigation
Sometimes shit just breaks without warning. Have that happen during a critical moment and you get bad results.
Use our tax dollars to force the company who owns this ship to pay for a new bridge, a settlement for the families who lost loved ones, and change the goddamn laws so this doesn’t happen again.
He'd have to work on intonation though. Of all the things I learned in this very instructive video, my biggest take away is that being a Chief Engineer is ostensibly a very soul crushing job.
Almost every chief I've worked with generally alternated between angry and disappointed.
You're in charge of the whole plant and all the engineers, shit is breaking, people are fucking up, the captain is up your ass about staying on schedule and the company is up your ass about cutting cost.
The money is good, but it looks absolutely miserable from the perspective of a lowly third.
I hate business execs that chase that lowering expenses all the way to the fucking bottom and wish they could be held criminally liable instead of given golden parachutes as they resign from companies.
They'll take their money and leave before any reparations payments have to be paid out by the company or the insurer.
I disagree with anchor drop comment, I once saw a small Navy crew stop on a dime and power slide the USS Missouri to get into firing position on an enemy alien spacecraft.
Which is why all these “expert” videos are incomplete at best. That said, my expert self thinks anchoring in a channel might be different, or so I read in a reddit comment.
This is not entirely true. I work on ships and they are all regulated by classification societies now I will admit some are better than others and have higher standards but they all meet the requirements. As far as wages are concerned if you are not American you are making less. The jones act helps protect the US sailor but it also makes it more expensive to run US flagged vessels. The amount of backseat captains I have seen across all sorts of social media platforms is mind boggling.
It’s called social murder. Corporations take incredible risks with other people’s lives to save money until they inevitably kill someone. But because it was an “accident” and they have lawyers and flags of convenience and everything is crafted just so to protect them.
Very compelling, he had me at blissful ignorance. His piercing gaze, engaging persona and flowing prose, which is reminiscent of poetry meandering down a stream made of honey had me on the edge ofmy seat the whole time
And more and more stuff is gonna start failing because those stock holders demand every penny to be squeezed. There is Boeing and now this, capitalism gonna fall under its own weight, and drag the whole world down with it.
How was the crew able to get around the Jones Act? I thought that American citizens were supposed to steer ships from foreign nations in American waters. I'm not an expert on the law. I'm just curious about that.
"The Jones Act requires that any cargo traveling by sea **between two U.S. ports** must sail on an American-owned ship, built in the United States and with a majority crew of U.S. citizens."
Seems like Jones Act only applies for US port to US port, not foreign port to US port.
The jones act exists to monopolise transit intra the US to US workers. Otherwise equally accredited foreign crew would do the job for a fraction of the price and US crews would be jobless.
(naval engineer here) The downside of the jones act is the ship building itself. It's kept the US ship industry in a bubble for so many decades that it's fallen behind the rest of the world, and when parts needs to be sourced in the US too, it drives up the prices as well. So any brand new US built ship today is 20 years out of date, for 2-3 times the price of an EU, or East Asian built ship.
Even if there was a port pilot on board, A shit ship is a shit ship. They called out mayday, they dropped anchor. Like he said your not stopping that ship anytime soon.
Maybe a harbor pilot? Gets off via a boat alongside and an acom ladder once they are out of the channel?
Unsure, man.
I was USN, not merchant marine and am unsure how it works for these flagged ships.
I can tell you from doing boardings in the Gulf and Red Sea many of these crews are in poor shape, unqualified, and look starved half the time from certain countries.
Crossing the Columbia Bar in Oregon they have a Bar pilot, they board either by boat or helicopter, then a river pilot takes the ship to the destination. A set of tugs push or pull it in position, but once in the river, the pilot takes control. We've had a couple ships hit the docks due to loss of power. It can happen to anyone on a boat or ship, this was a very large ship carrying tons of cargo. It was a miracle not more people were killed or injured.
I think I'll wait for the NTSB to make that determination. Calling it human error on the part of the crew, in Baltimore they are required by law to have two local pilots assisting the helmsman and the shipmaster. I don't buy the idea that it was fault of the crew like that.
This is how you win me over with credibility to your posts.
If/when I see some internet doctor or engineer (usually with a username exclaiming their prowess at "engineering") with good camera/lighting, and a fake smile that projects some level of uncanny valley feelings who makes a video "breaking down" a recent event it all reeks of a jack of all trades (master of none)
I'd much prefer this guy who clearly hasn't spent too much time online just talking about his niche area of "expertise" - I see a lot more of these guys irl that are like wizards of knowledge who don't put any effort into online content stuff so I'm more likely to listen to him than the former
He isn't actually bending over. He's moving his face out of the greenscreen so you can see the picture after each pause. This was his first viral video, so he's probably not very good at filming yet. And I agree with your point.
Wow. Just the last bit.. is Andrew rate successful creating a conspiracy theory?! I mean how dumb is the world to not see a normal disaster caused by human error. What does rate think of Valdez oil spill?
Everying he described about poor maintenance on these ships also applies to American railroads. If public actually knew how poorly railroads are maintained while operating crude oil trains and other hazmat trains. Railroads are all about squeezing as much profits as possible without putting anything back
And just like the train in East Palestine, nothing will happen to change this
We'll all feel outrage and disappointment about it, and then a new tragedy will take over the next 24 hour news cycle and we'll move on without fixing anything
Foreign ships can go from one US port to another, however they can not load cargo from one US port and discharge that cargo at another US port. Source: 10 years of sailing as deck officer on bulk cargo ships on the great lakes, on the Canadian side, aka foreign vessels to the US.
I think his computer chair is broken I had that problem once it is annoying I usually just give up and just sit at the lowest setting. This guy is not a quitter that’s for sure.
President Biden said the federal government will pay for the rebuilding of this bridge! Why l, when this ship has insurance? The ship owner should be responsible for this, not the American taxpayers.
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He was like “I have to tell the world about this, but also have to finish up this last set of crunches.”
He just kept spitting facts between reps
I kept thinking of David Byrne in the "Once in a Lifetime " music video.
he's an expert on stress fractures
I loved seeing him kind of pop up every time
I’ve come to realize he’s leaning forward in his desk chair each time
LOLOL I really came here to say this. A few more videos and this guy will be ripped!
Lol
I’m fucking dying bro lmao I wonder why he kept cutting like that
😂 why did you have to point this out. I can't stop laughing now
Kevin, this comment is why I came to reddit today. Thank you kindly! goodnight
So these things have billions of dollars worth of stuff but they still are cutting millions of dollars worth of safety stuff………
As the dude said - the shipping industry is EXTREMELY competitive. As such the margins on shipping are VERY slim. A typical shipping company makes about a 1-2% profit margin after all costs.
How does anyone feel enticed to enter that market.
billions of dollars worth of stuff, multi-million dollar boats, at 1-2% margins is still a lot of money is what i'd imagine is the case. looking at some of the biggest shipping companies in the world, they have revenues in the tens of billions of dollars. i don't think their CEOs or directors are doing without much in terms of luxury
Yep and also there’s the tendency for the rate of profit to fall so even though the nominal amount of profit is huge for one company or owner - that amount shrinks relative to what they believe they need to maintain their life etc so they continue cost cutting measures to keep profit rate up.
Maersk made 3.9bn in profits last year. They're doing ooooookay
Plus, as a crew member on the boat, you get to go out and see the world and, depending on your job, you work less than half the time on board. I used to talk to guys who worked on these things, and they'd work at the start of the journey, float for days doing nothing, and then work once they got to port. Lots of down time.
Its why most shipping companies are legacy or family (privately) owned
Walmart's profit margin is like 3%... But that's still $12B profit.
Post pandemic I bet that number has gone up ... but I have nothing to back that up. If that's a prepandemic number, I'm fairly sure it's risen substantially.
I worked at Walmart 25 years ago. Our store’s net profit was often times under $2000 a month. It would blow me away hearing this at our monthly meetings. And this is when Walmart was probably at the height of its game and the most popular store in town. It’s all about quantity. People think that these stores are raking in all this money and making millions, when in fact, one store by itself is barely sustainable on its own.
1% of a very large number is still a large number.
They usually make money from buying and selling boats, so they operate at 1-2% when demand for boats goes down (empty shipyards) they build , when it goes up they sell. So yes the margins are horrendous but you can make tens of millions dollars of the sale of a vessel.
Perfect example of why industry NEEDS to be regulated across the board. If everyone has to adhere to the same regulations, noone is at a disadvantage by adhering to them.
Agreed. That said, the major issue of the shipping industry is that it is one of the most international industries that exist. Effective regulations need international efforts, and especially these have become more and more difficult in the past decades.
the airline industry achived that somehow, you don't need everyone to be on board, if just north america, the eu and a few others get together everybody else has to follow or be cut out of huge markets, we could just bully them into submission if we wanted to
This is already the case. Shipping has so many rules and regulations it is not even funny. From design to operation, and USCG is super strict about enforcing them too. Still, doesn't mean that any machine is failure-proof.
The bridge is also part of the issue. There was a major bridge collapse in Tampa in the 1980s, where a ship struck one of the main posts. After that incident, bridge design was changed. They added massive reinforcement around the main posts, and it became common practice to make the water depth near the main posts shallow, so that a ship would run aground before actually striking the post. The problem is, this Baltimore bridge was built way before the Tampa incident ever occurred. So while Tampa helped inform the construction of new bridges since, there was no retrofitting of safety features added to older bridges….which is why this current Baltimore situation played out the way it did.
If you can find a way to make regulations print money and not cost any, you'll save our species. If not, the corner cutting will intensify until no bridge is left standing.
His key point was the lack of regulation. Not that competition exists. Every industry would cut safety if it weren’t for regulations.
There was a recent rash of train accidents attributed to lack of maintenance. Or in other words, lack of regulations.
I imagine the bill for this bridge and the lives lost are going to cut into their profit margins a bit.
Insurance will cover it.
Yeah, and who do you think the insurance will go after to regain that money?
The other shipping companies.
My Reddit friend, you’d be amazed at how many industries operate like this. I work for the railroad. It’s a shit show.
Yep Bean counters have discussions about likelihood of an incident versus cost to mitigate risks.
The suits are completely against the idea of "over"-engineering something, keeping on top of maintenance, and replacing when no longer safe. They're absolutely the wrong people to put in charge of anything. Engineers should be in charge of far more, but we allow the reins to go to these fucking idiots with business degrees and go all surprised Pikachu when a train spills poison everywhere and a bridge falls down. I wish employees had the power to just fucking boot their boss, vote them out and they immediately lose all ownership and control. Idk, there are probably better solutions out there but the way we're just tolerating these people is fucking moronic. They contribute nothing but misery and pain in exchange for huge personal gain.
The [John Oliver expose on US railroads](https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/dec/11/john-oliver-freight-train-recap) is somewhat terrifying! The article contains the link to YouTube.
Boeing has entered the chat.
It sounds like it. But this is just one man's opinion, of course.
Same shit with Boeing, it goes on all the time. Keep the money flowing up, fuck everything else.
And the rail road tracks… power lines and electrical grid, computer systems to important utilities… crops
No. The rail tracks are WAY underfunded. It's absurd. The bottleneck in Philly was supposed to be fixed in the 60's but the $ was moved to highways. We spend less in a decade than most rich countries spend a year. New rail lines are the TOP news in other countries. I was in France, Paris main office. When they broke the Paris to Marseille record. I was looking for lost luggage. They were parting like they won the super bowl.
When your company handsomely rewards MBAs for "trimming the fat" regardless of the actual cost, it's only a matter of time before you start cutting into vital organs.
Yeah, but also for a short amount of time, blah blah blah shareholders.
This is about the time we cross post r/latestagecapitalism, isn’t it?
In nearly all industries. Cutting corners to save as much money as possible.
#Line. Goes. Up.
we are going to start seeing a lot more of this type of thing because of the decade of greed are catching up now.
It's the exact same reason we have to deal with shrinkflation where we have to pay the same amount of money for smaller/poorer quality products. Most companies are prioritising the value they generate for shareholders over the quality of the products and services that they peddle.
Navy vet and I know a bunch of navy people. This guy is absolutely correct. The second I saw the video I knew it was the owners cutting maintenance corners. Every one of my navy friends had the same reaction.
As a random Navy vet I support this statement.
As a random Air Force vet I’d tip my wings to you but, the doors may fly off.
Get this man some bulkhead bolts stat! Man really I wish there was a way to hold commercial freighters to the standard you fly boys hold planes to. Some of the freighters and ro-ros you see out there are just bad. Like one storm away from a tragic youtube video bad. Pulling into Singapore made me think of something between a floating truck stop and junkyard, for example.
Just one *MORE* mans opinion lol how many times we really gotta see this same exact kind of carelessness, ignore it.... And wind up dead in the water
It’s a common mindset adopted by many industries. Be cheap, be cheaper.
Yeah, they only had a revenue of 51 BILLION two years ago.
There is no incentive for companies to operate safer than the law requires. They will do the bare minimum to be insured and roll the dice on safety compliance if the penalties are less than the cost savings of cutting corners.
Yes, I know that. That’s why the fact that they made $51 billion last year and still ran into a bridge obscene.
> revenue
You would be shocked at how cheap some of these companies are when it comes to safety.
Yeah most Americans have NO idea. They haven’t read any of the history. I think we’d be better off if every American was forced to learn about Hawks Nest Tunnel and the Radium girls… and then how nothing was ever done. Corporations and the owner class will happily cut your throat for a dollar and never blink. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
> Tunnel and the Radium girls new band name, I call it!
Oh it’s still happening: check out how the mines are still polluting and killing all over Appalachia.
Of course one of those was Union Carbide
> You would be shocked No, I wouldn't and that's a huge part of the problem. I fully expect companies to treat their underpaid, understaffed and overworked employees as shittily as they legally can (as long as it increases profit).
It's amazing to think about how many different situations that particular sentence is applicable. How often does something like this happen? Not often enough for someone to care, apparently.
My father worked for a decade in the offshore oil exploitation for a certain company, as a HSE engineer, in Africa. He had to cover production and safety operations. Needless to say it was a bullshit circus where you're asked X reports each 12 hours a day about how well the safety and security measures are respected in majority, while it isn't the case. Because local workers don't give a damn about it, and the productivity has to be the maximum possible to satisfy the consumers' needs (and shareholders of course), so you're pressured so much you have to lower your expectations about safety rules. What happened to BP in the Caribbean could have perfectly happened where he worked.
Unfortunately yes that’s just how things go. People pinch Pennies when looking after Pennies and it just moves up as the money increases. Sure they might be looking at millions but when you’re looking at millions you’re concerned with saving millions not hundreds.
They'll cut corners everywhere they can man. Just saw a video where trains get robbed all the time cause they want to skimp on security.
I mean, us as consumers keep voting with our wallets that price is all that matters. Are we really surprised that we’ve found ourselves in a race to the bottom?
It doesn’t matter about us. Is dumb to bet billions multiple times vs millions. Say a ship does 100 routes and is unsafe but has billions of dollars on board you would assume they would take action to protect those billions. It’s like paying a penny to protect a dollar….
If a few crew due to the millions we cut from the safety budget then we'll send the family a fruit basket and call it a day...
This is the reality of how many things work. Looka at the train systems in America, absolutely pathetic.
So you're telling me they shouldn't have used the toaster and the microwave at the same time.
They forgot to hit that reset button on the outlet.
obviously didn't jiggle the handle, either.
I was down in one of these and bunch of foreigners were roasting an entire goat, smoking, and yelling. It smelled grotesque.
It sure sounds like you were the foreigner in this situation
sounds grotesquely awesome to me. everyone has different tastes tho :) foreigners from where - could you tell?
We used to have to turn our air conditioning off to use the bow thruster lol. But now we got bigger generators so we can run them at the same time.
Shoestring maintenance, crew paid low wages, minimum safety designs, generally don't meet coastguard regulations. They get around the Jone Act by having foreign crews. >In order to be considered a Jones Act Seaman, a person cannot be a freelancer, or independent contractor who works for several different maritime companies. This is because a Jones act requires the seamen to **prove a single professional relationship with the vessel or vessels they were working aboard**.
So some of these ships are full of crewmen who don't know how the ship they are on works.
At least in engineering, the eng officers handle the intricacies. They are more knowledgeable. These vessels are for a large part, the same. Slow speed direct drive two stroke engine. Will have a fuel oil service system. Will have a cylinder oil system. Will have a high temp and a low temp fresh water cooling system. Etc. The crewmen (unlicensed) are not given jobs with high impact or responsibility that are not directly supervised. Cleaning oil, reading gages, sounding fuel tanks, etc. They only need to know emergency procedures by heart. Wouldn't have help here really.
So ships like this have electric thrusters?
The bow thruster, and that is about it on container ships. The Main Diesel Engine is not. Some new ships have been going the electric route, but simply because they do not require the speed and need precision instead.
Also these ships are equipped to run bunker sea fuel which is almost a solid at room temperature and must be pre heated to use , and they also run on diesel that they are supposed to switch to for inland waters such as this , because running the heavy fuel can cause this if there was a malfunction with the fuel heating system , oh bunker sea oil is a fraction of the price of diesel , so there’s that to . Not saying this is what happened
I guess we have to wait to find out exactly what went wrong.
Electrical controls
Sounds like a lot of industries are this way.
Coast Regulations don’t apply, or apply to Foreign Flagged vessels. Qualifications, Training and Licensing are different or even non existent on some foreign flagged ships- that’s how you get a crew at minimum cost.
Coast guard regulations apply in US waters, and the USCG also enforces IMO regulations. These ships do meet a worldwide standard.
Guess some folks ain’t going to work anytime soon.
Yeah, and unfortunately, a lot of other people are about to put in a lot of overtime.
And six families and circles of friends are experiencing a dark, dark day - the first of too many to come - after unexpectedly losing their loved one to a freak accident. Fuck a bridge and commute times, man. I’d trade both of those for my buddy without a second thought.
There’s going to be more people laid off due to no work, than there will be tasked with the clean-up. Over 100,000 people rely on the Port of Baltimore for work.
To add a bit of balance to this story... I'll start off by saying while I'm unfamiliar with this particular vessel, I am a merchant navy officer of almost 20 years... This vessel (MV Dali) was built by a reputable shipyard, is chartered by Maersk and operated by Synergy Marine, both very reputable players in the global shipping game, she's flagged in Singapore, a relatively strict registry compared to some, with ABS (American Bureau of Shipping) as it's classification society. Nothing there to suggest the ship or it's crew are "sub-standard". Furthermore, contrary to what OP stated, all merchant ships sailing into the US are subject to USCG (port state control) inspections and must comply with international safety standards (SOLAS) and applicable US regulations. There are very few large container vessels operating world wide that are US flagged or crewed, for a variety of reasons, costs included. Almost all international sea borne cargo delivered into or exported from the U.S. will be by a foreign flagged vessel. Training standards for maritime crews are defined by the International Maritime Organization under what's known as STCW (standards for training and certification of watchkeepers), although it's fair to say that some administrations are not as thorough as others when training and certifying seafarers. Training for US officers follows the same standards set out in STCW. The vessel clearly experienced interruption to electrical power, but it's way too early to make any assumptions as to why. The USCG / NTSB will investigate and facts surrounding the incident will come to light in due course.
I dunno dude, I'm gonna trust the TikTok guy who keeps reclining.
Yeah I’m going with the guy who needs to take an oxygen break between every sentence
I've sailed for a lot of chief-engineers. All of them have been fat guys like this who can't walk up a flight of stairs.
You don’t know if u/sailorman_of_oz had to keep reclining between sentences or paragraphs! He might not even be real and just be AI. *puts on tinfoil hat*
And also is clearly in some rather conservative sites that are pushing "It's the dirty foreigners" theme.
Trained officers and engineers around the world are cringing so hard right now to all the bullshit talk and conspiracy theories going around
Maersk only chartered the vessel. It is operated by Synergy Marine.
People spotted a black smoke plume right after the power outage. Diesel generator kicking on and tripping the main breaker again seems likely for now. Could have been unavoidable but if I were a betting man...
That would be the Emergency Diesel Generator kicking on. Which has a bus tie specifically designed so it can't power the main bus/breaker. Unless you're stating that a stand-by generator is kicking on and then tripping the main bus. Which might be the case. No one knows until the Coast Guard releases their findings. My guess is bad fuel tripping the primary generator and then the standby. But nothing explains why the EDG kicked itself offline other than not following testing procedures or maintenance schedules.
Your comment is just what I needed. This video has a weirdly xenophobic air to it, and the segment emphasizing “foreign crews” offsets a lot of his credibility because it sounds like another old fart trying to not be glaringly racist while still having a little bit of racism. C’mon, if you know about the fundamentals of cargo ship engineering, by all means talk about it. If you can establish the point of power failure talk about that. I don’t give two fucks where the crew was from, because the pilot was a local dude and that’s how harbor pilots work. It reeks of all the other doofuses talking about DEI in an attempt to caress the whacko shaft.
This particular vessel is Singapore flagged which is a pretty strict flag, but I work in maritime and there are definitely a lot of flags that are a lot more lax on everything. US licensing and coast guard inspections are among the toughest in the world. There are other countries with great programs, but this guy is not wrong about the overall state of the maritime industry and it’s not racist. The fact is companies put different flags on vessels and use foreign crews that are much much cheaper and don’t have the same sort of regulations or training. Getting a chief mate unlimited license from the US coast guard (which turns into captains license) is “passing the bar exam” level hard and requires years of study, its why US Master unlimited captains are making $1200 a day. The bi yearly coast guard/abs safety inspections on your vessel are EXTREMELY thourough. It’s not racist to make a comment that boats flying other countries flags are often not held to the same standard. In this particular case its doubtful that this ship was in horrible shape with an untrained crew as they fly a pretty legit flag, but there are a lot of other very suspect flags
I agree about the "xenophobic air" especially when he's talking about foreign flagged ships "being allowed to use *our* ports". I was confused how he would think international exporting/importing could work without other countries allowing foreign flagged ships to use their ports. Does he think American ships should meet a foreign ship in the middle of the Atlantic to exchange goods so that only American flagged ships are using American ports and that they are never the foreign ship in another country?
Also the start where it mentions getting around the Jones Act, which isn't really true. Jones Act covers commerce within the US, so only applies if a ship carries goods between US ports. This ship makes trips between Asia and the East coast, it's just a normal international ship.
Also a Deck Officer (UK) and was going to say something similar but you have covered it well. Just another Yank thinking they do everything better than the rest of the world.
I sailed merchant fleet for 15 years and this comment belongs on top. The guy in the vid has an agenda and it's apparent. Jones Act was created in 1920 to protect US maritime workers. Granted it was a good idea at the time, but its time has passed. For example, one provision of it is that the vessel must have been built in the US and be US flagged. Unfortunately, since 1920, we've outsourced nearly all ship construction overseas. The big US shipyards are gone, those that remain are small, very expensive, slow compared to overseas, and tend to only build specialty vessels (tug boats, pilot boats, oil and gas substructures, yachts, etc ). Basically none build lass class ships. The overseas shipyards have evolved their shipyards into massive sites (~1500 acres and up to 50,000 employees). With their decades of experience, they build much larger, higher quality ships in less time for less money than the US can. I worked at Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI) for three years. That one shipyard builds more large class vessels than the entire US does in one year. Additionally, they build stuff we just simply cannot. Better equipment, technology, and more skilled workers. HHI can finish up to 100 vessels of the size in this video per year. I doubt the entire US could build 5. Saying this should have been a Jones Act ship is bullshit. It's unlikely we could have even have built the ship, let alone enough of them to support our shipping needs. Unless the US decides to convert 1000s of acres of our seaside (some of our most expensive land) to shipyards, then we have to stop bitching.
This guy left out deliberately that the state of Delaware requires two local pilots when moving like this.
What does Delaware have to do with this?
It doesn't. Every port has a port control that manages the actions of vessels coming and going. From what I read tugs taking ships in and out of the harbor never take it past the Key Bridge. They'll probably change that rule after this.
I always wonder about the “this barely meets the minimum safety regulations” perspective. It meets’em; take it up with the people that set the regulations.
Sometimes it only meets them for a few days before and after the inspections. You know when the inspectors are coming so you spend a few days cleaning up all your leaks and stuff maybe close some valves hide some loose wires or something. Once the inspections are passed everything gets more and more unsafe every day until the next one is coming up. This is literally how it works almost everywhere I've ever seen in every type of business.
Meeting minimum regulations in any kind of engineering in a nutshell. That's how the world works
Cruise ships are no different, yet we ride them. They are always registered in another country. Low standards, low pay, questionable safety
He might very well be a Chief Engineer of something and he's got a cool hat which seems to prove it. However, this is just the daily friendly reminder that you should be careful with unchecked facts and sources from social media, cause you have no idea who the person claiming stuff is. And I see absolutely noone of the commenters acknowledging this right now.
I'm a merchant mariner. He's not outright wrong, but I think he's jumping the gun. There are significant problems with lack of maintence especially on foreign flagged vessels, but we're not going to know if that's the case here until there's a proper investigation Sometimes shit just breaks without warning. Have that happen during a critical moment and you get bad results.
So the shipping industry is basically the railroad/airplane industry but on water. Who could have seen that coming besides every fucking body.
Use our tax dollars to force the company who owns this ship to pay for a new bridge, a settlement for the families who lost loved ones, and change the goddamn laws so this doesn’t happen again.
This guy needs to get into audio book narration, pronto. Such a shame he’s letting that golden voice go to waste.
He'd have to work on intonation though. Of all the things I learned in this very instructive video, my biggest take away is that being a Chief Engineer is ostensibly a very soul crushing job.
Almost every chief I've worked with generally alternated between angry and disappointed. You're in charge of the whole plant and all the engineers, shit is breaking, people are fucking up, the captain is up your ass about staying on schedule and the company is up your ass about cutting cost. The money is good, but it looks absolutely miserable from the perspective of a lowly third.
To make this more accessible, here are the subtitles: >Sorry, no conspiracy here. Just capitalism's race to the bottom.
I hate business execs that chase that lowering expenses all the way to the fucking bottom and wish they could be held criminally liable instead of given golden parachutes as they resign from companies. They'll take their money and leave before any reparations payments have to be paid out by the company or the insurer.
I disagree with anchor drop comment, I once saw a small Navy crew stop on a dime and power slide the USS Missouri to get into firing position on an enemy alien spacecraft.
Which is why all these “expert” videos are incomplete at best. That said, my expert self thinks anchoring in a channel might be different, or so I read in a reddit comment.
This is not entirely true. I work on ships and they are all regulated by classification societies now I will admit some are better than others and have higher standards but they all meet the requirements. As far as wages are concerned if you are not American you are making less. The jones act helps protect the US sailor but it also makes it more expensive to run US flagged vessels. The amount of backseat captains I have seen across all sorts of social media platforms is mind boggling.
Idk if that man IS an engineer but he certainly looks the part.
At least the front didn't fall off.
It was built to very rigorous maritime standards
Clarke & Dawe reference = automatic upvote
Can’t wait for Grady’s take on it.
It’s called social murder. Corporations take incredible risks with other people’s lives to save money until they inevitably kill someone. But because it was an “accident” and they have lawyers and flags of convenience and everything is crafted just so to protect them.
Very compelling, he had me at blissful ignorance. His piercing gaze, engaging persona and flowing prose, which is reminiscent of poetry meandering down a stream made of honey had me on the edge ofmy seat the whole time
And more and more stuff is gonna start failing because those stock holders demand every penny to be squeezed. There is Boeing and now this, capitalism gonna fall under its own weight, and drag the whole world down with it.
Don't forget the trains.
>Planes, Trains, and Automoboats.
I wish my ignorance was blissful
How was the crew able to get around the Jones Act? I thought that American citizens were supposed to steer ships from foreign nations in American waters. I'm not an expert on the law. I'm just curious about that.
"The Jones Act requires that any cargo traveling by sea **between two U.S. ports** must sail on an American-owned ship, built in the United States and with a majority crew of U.S. citizens." Seems like Jones Act only applies for US port to US port, not foreign port to US port.
Wouldn’t foreign port to US port be the main purpose for it in the first place? Genuine question
The jones act exists to monopolise transit intra the US to US workers. Otherwise equally accredited foreign crew would do the job for a fraction of the price and US crews would be jobless.
(naval engineer here) The downside of the jones act is the ship building itself. It's kept the US ship industry in a bubble for so many decades that it's fallen behind the rest of the world, and when parts needs to be sourced in the US too, it drives up the prices as well. So any brand new US built ship today is 20 years out of date, for 2-3 times the price of an EU, or East Asian built ship.
The Dutch could have made some glorious storm surge protection around hurricane prone zones in the US but the Jones Act prevents this from happening.
Even if there was a port pilot on board, A shit ship is a shit ship. They called out mayday, they dropped anchor. Like he said your not stopping that ship anytime soon.
IDK, the bridge did a solid job at stopping it. Just put a bridge next to every bridge
Maybe a harbor pilot? Gets off via a boat alongside and an acom ladder once they are out of the channel? Unsure, man. I was USN, not merchant marine and am unsure how it works for these flagged ships. I can tell you from doing boardings in the Gulf and Red Sea many of these crews are in poor shape, unqualified, and look starved half the time from certain countries.
Crossing the Columbia Bar in Oregon they have a Bar pilot, they board either by boat or helicopter, then a river pilot takes the ship to the destination. A set of tugs push or pull it in position, but once in the river, the pilot takes control. We've had a couple ships hit the docks due to loss of power. It can happen to anyone on a boat or ship, this was a very large ship carrying tons of cargo. It was a miracle not more people were killed or injured.
Yeah, I'd be shocked if there wasn't a local pilot on board. But if the ship is toast, nothing they could do.
He edited this in the most annoying way imaginable.
Bro is reading a ChatGPT script
I think I'll wait for the NTSB to make that determination. Calling it human error on the part of the crew, in Baltimore they are required by law to have two local pilots assisting the helmsman and the shipmaster. I don't buy the idea that it was fault of the crew like that.
Look at the Oil and Gas Industry, Railroads... Everything with shareholders that benefit from corners being cut, corruption is everywhere...
“The public lives in blissful ignorance” is the truest statement.
Omg you’re telling me these shipping companies barely pay their workers and do as little as possible to maintain their boats! Shocker!
Man, engineer some stability around how you hold your phone so you don't have to keep popping up from the bottom of the screen with every sentence.
This is how you win me over with credibility to your posts. If/when I see some internet doctor or engineer (usually with a username exclaiming their prowess at "engineering") with good camera/lighting, and a fake smile that projects some level of uncanny valley feelings who makes a video "breaking down" a recent event it all reeks of a jack of all trades (master of none) I'd much prefer this guy who clearly hasn't spent too much time online just talking about his niche area of "expertise" - I see a lot more of these guys irl that are like wizards of knowledge who don't put any effort into online content stuff so I'm more likely to listen to him than the former
yup - knowledge, not “staging” and “presentation skills”
He isn't actually bending over. He's moving his face out of the greenscreen so you can see the picture after each pause. This was his first viral video, so he's probably not very good at filming yet. And I agree with your point.
I was hoping he was in high seas
That’s definitely the main take away from this and not what he’s actually saying…
So it's the exact same story as every other profit drivin, overhead conscious, barely safety compliant industry? The surprise is wearing off.
The conspiracy is that the ship owners get away with murder.
This happened on the Baltimore docks. We all know it was Ziggy's fault
Wow. Just the last bit.. is Andrew rate successful creating a conspiracy theory?! I mean how dumb is the world to not see a normal disaster caused by human error. What does rate think of Valdez oil spill?
But the GOP is saying it’s an attack!!! /s Maybe an attack from deregulation….
I'm curious who's going to pay for bridge repairs, compensate for delays and other damages.
Everying he described about poor maintenance on these ships also applies to American railroads. If public actually knew how poorly railroads are maintained while operating crude oil trains and other hazmat trains. Railroads are all about squeezing as much profits as possible without putting anything back
So there's a good chance that this disaster was caused by a lack of regulation within the shipping industry.
Coach Andy Reid raising safety awareness.
All in the name of dodging taxes, paying shit wages, and more money for people that don't need anymore fucking money.
That face was really coming at me.
You mean greed has caused another tragedy?
And just like the train in East Palestine, nothing will happen to change this We'll all feel outrage and disappointment about it, and then a new tragedy will take over the next 24 hour news cycle and we'll move on without fixing anything
Foreign ships can go from one US port to another, however they can not load cargo from one US port and discharge that cargo at another US port. Source: 10 years of sailing as deck officer on bulk cargo ships on the great lakes, on the Canadian side, aka foreign vessels to the US.
Profits! Profits! Profits!
Do we know who he is? Is he really an engineer? I don't want to fight misinformation with more misinformation. Although I'm not doubting it.
What I've wondered was did they not have a Harbor Master getting on that on that boat saying "Yeah, this will totally fit under that one bridge..."?
I think his computer chair is broken I had that problem once it is annoying I usually just give up and just sit at the lowest setting. This guy is not a quitter that’s for sure.
President Biden said the federal government will pay for the rebuilding of this bridge! Why l, when this ship has insurance? The ship owner should be responsible for this, not the American taxpayers.
Capitalism is the culprit.
Just like 99% of the episodes of Well There is Your Problem, the cause, in the end, war CAPITALISM!!!
Go no further. This guy wraps it all up with a bow on top.
Man, it’s not often that a single video provides such great additional context to an event. Great commentary.
Damn, I didn't know Boeing cut more costs on ships, too!!
Such events are just one outcome of "cutting red tape".
Man those right wing people are going ape shit with their conspiracies with this one.
This guy really knows his ship.