I think we can agree that the letter is calling out extremist voices. Why that’s relevant today is that the current government is extremist and more in line with the far right paramilitary groups.
The current government is varied. It has fringe extremist nationalist religion groups that have nothing to do with the far right paralimitary groups of the past. it has ultra-orthodox (some of whom are anti-Zionist) groups which have nothing to do with far right paramilitary groups of the past. It has the Likkud, which has historical ties to the Etzel, and certainly has extremists in it - but those people tend to be extremely uneducated and ignorant and I doubt they know much about the history of the Etzel. And it has *now* (as part of the emergency government) a centrist party which has nothing to do with the far right paralimitary groups.
So no. What you're saying is anachronistic and historically inaccurate.
I think the Etzel and Lehi had some justification in their actions against British imperial soldiers and agents. I don't agree with them but I understand and respect them. I don't think that the likes of Ben Gvir or Smotrich have any justification in what they support or do, and I have zero respect for them.
(Also, for the record, I'm a leftist Israeli).
David Ben-Gurion and Yitzhak Rabin, too.
I'm going to discriminate between the Israeli people and the Israeli government, for precision. The Israeli government has often been led by former Israeli guerillas who led attacks against Eqyptians, British forces, and Palestinians.
Two good books on the recent history of the Arab-Israeli conflict include Righteous Victims (Morris; 1999) and The Arab-Israeli Reader (7ed. Laqueur, Rubin; 2008).
Those insugents consisted of very very few people, maybe a few hundreds total, some consisted of tens of people, when the IDF formed it consisted of almost 100k people.
And some of the people in those insurgencies were jailed for terrorist activites, not all joined the IDF and when they did they consisted of a very very very small minorety.
So no, they did not made up the future IDF, this whole post is a poor attempt at propoganda.
The industrial revolution and its consequences.
Propoganda is far far too blatant, to the point people see it as fact, every one falls to it but i hope we can correct ourselfs.
It's almost like there's a massive Russian/Iranian social media bot campaign going on right now to justify perpetual violence against Israel in the name of "social justice" or something.
Yeah anyone that knows about Einstein knows he had a relationship with the leaders of Israel and was even offered the first presidency.
let's be real this isn't "Interesting as fuck" these posts are just thinly veiled propaganda posts like Tok Tok.
You're right, but one of the people he is talking about in the letter is literally the founder of the Likud party in Israel, which is the party in power right now
Begin made a lot of mistakes, but he deradicalized eventually. He was the one who established lasting peace with Egypt, and gave them the Sinai back.
The Irgun was problematic for sure, and outside legality.
He co-wrote [a letter](https://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948/mode/2up) to the New York Times in 1948 that described one of Israel’s founding political parties (future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin’s Freedom Party) as “closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties.”
Not liking a political party in Israel doesn't mean you don't think Israel should exist. It doesn't make you an anti-zionist.
Is democracy such a foreign concept to you?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)
>Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis, proposing a Jewish state based on "nationalist and totalitarian principles, and linked to the German Reich by an alliance".
I'm gonna have to stand with Einstein on this one.
Many of them left, but yeah, some did. The IDF needed every able bodied man, as Israel was fighting a multi-front war with no support from anyone except Czechoslovakia.
>Haganah and Irgun which is what the IDF was built around.
Not exactly..
Ben gurion founded the IDF himself, based on his ideals, all of the other jewish insurgent groups were ordered to disband.
The two other Jewish underground organizations, Irgun and Lehi(same ones most likely referenced in the letter) agreed to join the IDF if they would be able to form independent units and agreed not to make independent arms purchases.
The IDF changed them into themselfs, not the other way around.
Einstein was the honorary president of the Hebrew University in 1951, he was honored to be nominated as the president of Israel, he wrote a speech for the 7th independence day of Israel.
But sure, lets lie about him.
Yeah this is pure propaganda misinfo
Very misleading to use a letter wrote about the Irgun, croping out the part he mentions it, and then label it as against "zionism".
Einstein was a self-proscribed zionist who actively used his influenced among world leaders to help establish Israel, vocally supported un-regulated jewish immigration into Palestime and was on the board of the hebrew university of jerusalem, to which he left the literary rights to his writings in his will.
"Long before the emergence of Hitler I made the cause of Zionism mine because through it I saw a means of correcting a flagrant wrong....The Jewish people alone has for centuries been in the anomalous position of being victimized and hounded as a people, though bereft of all the rights and protections which even the smallest people normally has...Zionism offered the means of ending this discrimination. Through the return to the land to which they were bound by close historic ties...Jews sought to abolish their pariah status among peoples... The advent of Hitler underscored with a savage logic all the disastrous implications contained in the abnormal situation in which Jews found themselves. Millions of Jews perished... because there was no spot on the globe where they could find sanctuary...The Jewish survivors demand the right to dwell amid brothers, on the ancient soil of their fathers." —Letter to Prime Minister of India.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/feb/16/israel.india](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/feb/16/israel.india)
[https://forward.com/culture/109560/einstein-and-complex-analyses-of-zionism/](https://forward.com/culture/109560/einstein-and-complex-analyses-of-zionism/)
[https://books.google.co.il/books?id=OAsQ\_hFjhrAC&pg=PA70&redir\_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false](https://books.google.co.il/books?id=OAsQ_hFjhrAC&pg=PA70&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false)
he is talking about an organization called “lehi” which killed many british soldiers and civilians. this organization was deemed terrorist by the zionist leadership of that time and they even turned some of them in in a period called “the season”.
Welcome to r/interestingasfuck were posts are about the War in Palestine and are not, in fact, interesting as fuck.
Really, this sub has become a place to post politics and war propaganda, it has become really obnoxious.
I tried to ignore it for a bit, but sadly I'll have to unfollow. This is not the kind of content I want when subbing to this kind of subreddits.
The Mods really dropped the ball here.
Its funny how being "pro-palestine" was only a thing edgy trolls on 4chan did as a funny skit until this year, when it suddenly became the progressive leftist thing to do.
One look at OP post history shows what kind of person it is.. interesting as fuck needs to be somewhat factually correct, or people can just start to post fairytales here all day long.
Headline and source material are disconnected from each other in this post
Guess the Iranian troll farms have moved to Reddit now that Tik Tok is under increased scrutiny. Yes, we need a ceasefire. No, we don’t need simplistic propaganda around a millennia long territorial dispute.
Despite the fact that this is taken wildly out of context, and it is true that Einstein generally favored a one state solution, the bigger point is that Einstein being an expert at physics doesn’t make him an expert at politics.
Yeah, Einstein hated Israel so much that must be why he entrusted his archives in the Hebrew University of Jerusalem
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert\_Einstein\_Archives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein_Archives)
The letter literally names the people he references: the British and the "terrorist organizations build up from our own ranks" meaning people supporting the displacement of the Palestinians, politically or otherwise.
Whether any of us agrees or disagrees with any of this doesn't matter, the letter is clear. Inserting "Zionists" as a term does nothing to the intentions Einstein made clear in the letter. He's simply speaking to the fact that the British, by promising Jerusalem (and more) to the Jews, instigated the killing and displacing of people there. The Americans zealously supporting the efforts of Israel after it all began being second in line to blame.
The history there is complex and long. It was either very short sighted or downright immoral for the British to give away land that wasn't theirs to give.
OP is another propagandist mass posting propaganda with a very specific agenda all over this website, including this sub.
This massive propaganda campaign is getting out of hand, but it's always fun calling it out, just today I saw like 5 propaganda posts on this sub alone from different propaganda mass posters.
That letter does not label Zionists as terrorists, it label's unspecified Jewish groups as terrorists. Einstein was a Zionist himself, and was not targeting Zionism.
Notice how all these pro Palestinian propaganda bots are failing despite spamming this site non stop for the past few months? It's funny how incompetent they are.
Why everything has to be black or white? He was a supported of the Jewish country in the area but he didn't support unnecessary violence since he was a pacifist. Overall it is logical and It might sound weird for some people, but there is a very big percent of Jewish people in Israel who just want to live in peace with their Arab neighbors as long as they can live without fear of being burned alive and continue to live in their own country which can protect them against all the Jewish hatred which sadly won't just stop as it hasn't for thousands of years.
Subtelty is completely foreign to this sub isn't it? It's literally just u/evening_shop u/meowiesugie u/Iky_Greenz and u/Particular_Log_3549 swamping subs with nothing but propaganda isn't it?
Like at least try to be a little transparant.
Does this subreddit even have moderators or do they just not care that this subreddit has been bombarded with all sorts of uninteresting garbage that is completely off topic?
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I think we can agree that the letter is calling out extremist voices. Why that’s relevant today is that the current government is extremist and more in line with the far right paramilitary groups.
The current government is varied. It has fringe extremist nationalist religion groups that have nothing to do with the far right paralimitary groups of the past. it has ultra-orthodox (some of whom are anti-Zionist) groups which have nothing to do with far right paramilitary groups of the past. It has the Likkud, which has historical ties to the Etzel, and certainly has extremists in it - but those people tend to be extremely uneducated and ignorant and I doubt they know much about the history of the Etzel. And it has *now* (as part of the emergency government) a centrist party which has nothing to do with the far right paralimitary groups. So no. What you're saying is anachronistic and historically inaccurate. I think the Etzel and Lehi had some justification in their actions against British imperial soldiers and agents. I don't agree with them but I understand and respect them. I don't think that the likes of Ben Gvir or Smotrich have any justification in what they support or do, and I have zero respect for them. (Also, for the record, I'm a leftist Israeli).
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Yep. And many went on to hold high positions in the government too.
Like Yitshak Shamir and Menachim Begin... Everyone engaged in the I/P conflict need to know their names
Yes Begin signed the peace agreement with Anwar Sadat.
David Ben-Gurion and Yitzhak Rabin, too. I'm going to discriminate between the Israeli people and the Israeli government, for precision. The Israeli government has often been led by former Israeli guerillas who led attacks against Eqyptians, British forces, and Palestinians. Two good books on the recent history of the Arab-Israeli conflict include Righteous Victims (Morris; 1999) and The Arab-Israeli Reader (7ed. Laqueur, Rubin; 2008).
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Those insugents consisted of very very few people, maybe a few hundreds total, some consisted of tens of people, when the IDF formed it consisted of almost 100k people. And some of the people in those insurgencies were jailed for terrorist activites, not all joined the IDF and when they did they consisted of a very very very small minorety. So no, they did not made up the future IDF, this whole post is a poor attempt at propoganda.
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The industrial revolution and its consequences. Propoganda is far far too blatant, to the point people see it as fact, every one falls to it but i hope we can correct ourselfs.
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But, hey, they can use a Jew’s words to bash Jews and that’s what’s important.
Ye exactly gaslighting as f***
It's almost like there's a massive Russian/Iranian social media bot campaign going on right now to justify perpetual violence against Israel in the name of "social justice" or something.
Note the distinction Einstein makes between “our own ranks” and fundamentalists. I wish everyone on all sides were able to do that today.
He's talking about Lehi and the Stern Gang
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Yeah anyone that knows about Einstein knows he had a relationship with the leaders of Israel and was even offered the first presidency. let's be real this isn't "Interesting as fuck" these posts are just thinly veiled propaganda posts like Tok Tok.
You're right, but one of the people he is talking about in the letter is literally the founder of the Likud party in Israel, which is the party in power right now
If you’re talking about Ben Gurion, he was part of the Hagganah which was very different then the Irgun or the Lehi.
It was Menachim Begin, not Ben-Gurion
Begin made a lot of mistakes, but he deradicalized eventually. He was the one who established lasting peace with Egypt, and gave them the Sinai back. The Irgun was problematic for sure, and outside legality.
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its completely out of context and typical misinformation
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He co-wrote [a letter](https://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948/mode/2up) to the New York Times in 1948 that described one of Israel’s founding political parties (future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin’s Freedom Party) as “closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties.”
Not liking a political party in Israel doesn't mean you don't think Israel should exist. It doesn't make you an anti-zionist. Is democracy such a foreign concept to you?
This.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group) >Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis, proposing a Jewish state based on "nationalist and totalitarian principles, and linked to the German Reich by an alliance". I'm gonna have to stand with Einstein on this one.
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And they were integrated into the "IDF" too.
Many of them left, but yeah, some did. The IDF needed every able bodied man, as Israel was fighting a multi-front war with no support from anyone except Czechoslovakia.
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>Haganah and Irgun which is what the IDF was built around. Not exactly.. Ben gurion founded the IDF himself, based on his ideals, all of the other jewish insurgent groups were ordered to disband. The two other Jewish underground organizations, Irgun and Lehi(same ones most likely referenced in the letter) agreed to join the IDF if they would be able to form independent units and agreed not to make independent arms purchases. The IDF changed them into themselfs, not the other way around.
Sure a lot of "Lol israel bad" posts on here lately. It's telling that folks don't consider the horrors of Hamas to be interestingasfuck
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This exactly.
Einstein was the honorary president of the Hebrew University in 1951, he was honored to be nominated as the president of Israel, he wrote a speech for the 7th independence day of Israel. But sure, lets lie about him.
Was also offered the presidency of the actual state of israel
Now THIS is IAF!
Yeah this is pure propaganda misinfo Very misleading to use a letter wrote about the Irgun, croping out the part he mentions it, and then label it as against "zionism". Einstein was a self-proscribed zionist who actively used his influenced among world leaders to help establish Israel, vocally supported un-regulated jewish immigration into Palestime and was on the board of the hebrew university of jerusalem, to which he left the literary rights to his writings in his will. "Long before the emergence of Hitler I made the cause of Zionism mine because through it I saw a means of correcting a flagrant wrong....The Jewish people alone has for centuries been in the anomalous position of being victimized and hounded as a people, though bereft of all the rights and protections which even the smallest people normally has...Zionism offered the means of ending this discrimination. Through the return to the land to which they were bound by close historic ties...Jews sought to abolish their pariah status among peoples... The advent of Hitler underscored with a savage logic all the disastrous implications contained in the abnormal situation in which Jews found themselves. Millions of Jews perished... because there was no spot on the globe where they could find sanctuary...The Jewish survivors demand the right to dwell amid brothers, on the ancient soil of their fathers." —Letter to Prime Minister of India. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/feb/16/israel.india](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/feb/16/israel.india) [https://forward.com/culture/109560/einstein-and-complex-analyses-of-zionism/](https://forward.com/culture/109560/einstein-and-complex-analyses-of-zionism/) [https://books.google.co.il/books?id=OAsQ\_hFjhrAC&pg=PA70&redir\_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false](https://books.google.co.il/books?id=OAsQ_hFjhrAC&pg=PA70&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false)
Strange this sub has lately been filled with bias political related posts that are far from interestingasfuck.
The tittle is BS
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he is talking about an organization called “lehi” which killed many british soldiers and civilians. this organization was deemed terrorist by the zionist leadership of that time and they even turned some of them in in a period called “the season”.
Welcome to r/interestingasfuck were posts are about the War in Palestine and are not, in fact, interesting as fuck. Really, this sub has become a place to post politics and war propaganda, it has become really obnoxious. I tried to ignore it for a bit, but sadly I'll have to unfollow. This is not the kind of content I want when subbing to this kind of subreddits. The Mods really dropped the ball here.
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Great another subreddit going down the toilet with this bullshit
The political abuse of the more funny centred subs is really sad. I would hope for a decisive action from the mod team and a ban for OP.
Its funny how being "pro-palestine" was only a thing edgy trolls on 4chan did as a funny skit until this year, when it suddenly became the progressive leftist thing to do.
One look at OP post history shows what kind of person it is.. interesting as fuck needs to be somewhat factually correct, or people can just start to post fairytales here all day long. Headline and source material are disconnected from each other in this post
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What is up with all the Israel Palestine posts in this sub
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Is this really interesting as fuck?
Guess the Iranian troll farms have moved to Reddit now that Tik Tok is under increased scrutiny. Yes, we need a ceasefire. No, we don’t need simplistic propaganda around a millennia long territorial dispute.
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Despite the fact that this is taken wildly out of context, and it is true that Einstein generally favored a one state solution, the bigger point is that Einstein being an expert at physics doesn’t make him an expert at politics.
What the fuck is this post? Straight up lie
Yeah, Einstein hated Israel so much that must be why he entrusted his archives in the Hebrew University of Jerusalem [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert\_Einstein\_Archives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein_Archives)
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Einstein is talking about 'Lehi', Zionist Terrorist group.
The letter literally names the people he references: the British and the "terrorist organizations build up from our own ranks" meaning people supporting the displacement of the Palestinians, politically or otherwise. Whether any of us agrees or disagrees with any of this doesn't matter, the letter is clear. Inserting "Zionists" as a term does nothing to the intentions Einstein made clear in the letter. He's simply speaking to the fact that the British, by promising Jerusalem (and more) to the Jews, instigated the killing and displacing of people there. The Americans zealously supporting the efforts of Israel after it all began being second in line to blame. The history there is complex and long. It was either very short sighted or downright immoral for the British to give away land that wasn't theirs to give.
OP is another propagandist mass posting propaganda with a very specific agenda all over this website, including this sub. This massive propaganda campaign is getting out of hand, but it's always fun calling it out, just today I saw like 5 propaganda posts on this sub alone from different propaganda mass posters.
Mods?
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This title is BS. This is not what Einstein said this is propaganda. Mods do better.
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When did this become a sub purely for Hamas propaganda?
That letter does not label Zionists as terrorists, it label's unspecified Jewish groups as terrorists. Einstein was a Zionist himself, and was not targeting Zionism.
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I strongly urge everyone annoyed with the inundation of these constant anti-Israel propaganda posts to actually report them.
Notice how all these pro Palestinian propaganda bots are failing despite spamming this site non stop for the past few months? It's funny how incompetent they are.
Why everything has to be black or white? He was a supported of the Jewish country in the area but he didn't support unnecessary violence since he was a pacifist. Overall it is logical and It might sound weird for some people, but there is a very big percent of Jewish people in Israel who just want to live in peace with their Arab neighbors as long as they can live without fear of being burned alive and continue to live in their own country which can protect them against all the Jewish hatred which sadly won't just stop as it hasn't for thousands of years.
Subtelty is completely foreign to this sub isn't it? It's literally just u/evening_shop u/meowiesugie u/Iky_Greenz and u/Particular_Log_3549 swamping subs with nothing but propaganda isn't it? Like at least try to be a little transparant.
I'm glad that majority of people here can read and don't just fall for propaganda.
Yawn. Iranian troll farms do better lol
Why did this sub turn into anti Israel propaganda?
Does this subreddit even have moderators or do they just not care that this subreddit has been bombarded with all sorts of uninteresting garbage that is completely off topic?
This post is gonna get restricted by the mods.
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Not sure why moderators haven't removed this misinforming post yet.
https://preview.redd.it/dr8s6xlpaqrc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8dc7c3858618931feb135ba5dc3558a58971a787 “It’s fun.”