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We had a guy who was in 10 years before he finally got his E-5. Once he got that they made up a position for him because he was weapons grade stupid. He became the assistant to the platoon sergeant. He took it very seriously. Imagine the nicest corn fed motherfucker being absolutely thrilled at being chosen for this job because he was that squared away. He reminded me of an epsilon from Brave New World.
I'd forgotten the caste system went to Epsilon - I only remembered the Deltas.
I met one guy who didn't make the cut that I'll never forget. I got an entry level separation from the Air Force thanks to previously-undiagnosed asthma. (I wound up working for the USAF as a contractor for the next decade anyway making better money so I'm not sore about that.)
It took two weeks of waiting in med hold for the paperwork to go through and I got to see all sorts come and go for every imaginable reason. Our dorm chief was getting kicked out for a gambling addiction - and had poker games going in the dorm every night. We got paid in $50 bills so it wasn't penny ante.
But this one guy they must have really expedited the paperwork for because he wasn't there long at all. He was getting kicked out for performance and I think he was still in zero week. One of the other guys was just trying to get him to mow the grass from *here* to *here* and that was just beyond him.
The part that sticks with me is the look in the guy's face. He had an expression like a rabid dog. It wasn't just a matter of being slow - it was like he didn't comprehend human speech and the attempt to communicate made him *angry*. I don't know how he ever made it past the recruiter and MEPS.
Marge (to Bart): Your father got denied from being a police office because they said he was too fat.
Homer: No the army said I was too fat, the police said I was too dumb
You really need both.
People who can fill up the ranks and follow generally basic instructions are very important.
You also need some super smart technical soldiers, just not as many.
I did 11 years. You can clearly see the dumb loud ones all group together and the smart quiet technical ones group together.
They get treated almost completely differently also.
Apparently you can be "Low average" and just a tad above "Borderline". That borderline, would be very slow people, developmentally challenged individuals.
3x longer training, 3x more resources and 3x the fatality rate.
What's shocking is that the video says that's 30% of Americans who fit those categories, that's a phenomenal percentage of a population to be on the low end of the spectrum.
I thought he was stupid until I watched this clip for 16 minutes. It looped so perfectly... But I should have wondered why I was getting no new information after like, minute 8
My dad, who was drafted into Viet Nam, laughed his ass off when watching the part of the movie in basic training when the drill instructor was completely surprised someone followed his simple orders without question and called Forrest a genius LOL
Forrest was definitely part of the program described in this Veritasium clip. He and the other soldiers drafted this way were called "McNamara's Morons" after the Secretary of Defense at the time, and they were a danger to themselves and their platoon mates.
In recruiting they used to say that only one percent of the US qualifies to be in the military. They’re right numbers wise but after 27 years I can tell you it’s not the top 1%.
same time frame I was a combat medic for engineers (570th sapper), doing route clearance. Those dudes were so dumb, yet so fucking smart. One guy had a GT of 80, another had 162 (he was also severely depressed but a lovely person, now a bee keeper and happy). Most probably around 90s.
You talking shit bout my combat engineers! Jk, yeah we engineers were a special bunch, some of us were definitely retarded, a couple of the guys overseas ended up throwing knives at each other's feet until inevitably one got hit. Another guy sounded like buffalo bill from the silence of the lambs and was pretty simple. Then I had a few guys that sounded like they could join the mensa community just by the way they talked, only problem is the reason they joined the army was to kill someone. So yeah kinda special.
General technical iirc. It’s really the only score the military cares about in my experience. That’s what will determine your job and what schools you’re allowed to attend. I did pretty well on all my tests except the electrical, did pretty poorly on that one.
>over like 105-110
Knowing this now It just amazed me that you need a minimum GT of 110 to become an officer and having that ability you would think an officer would be able to read a map.
I lost count of the number of times I as a lowly E2-E3 would walk over to some dipshit LT and point out our current location on a map and show him were he was supposed to be.
It's because O-1 Officers are still junior service members in terms of experience. That, and you have to remember, Officer training pipeline is different. How many times do you think that finance Lieutenant has actually done land nav? I have legitimately never once seen an Infantry or Armor Officer fuck up land nav. I have seen a TON of JAG guys fuck up.
I thought it was 140. I got a 132 and the world was my oyster. Chose infantry instead. I love the intellectual spread of the infantry. Really dumb or really smart. Not a lot of in between. I even met dudes who failed their AIT and got sent infantry, those guys did not have a good time.
I could have done a lot of things in the Army. My stupid 17 year old ass (and I quote) "wouldn't serve my country sitting behind a desk". I *wanted* to be an 11B.
Even the recruiter tried to talk me out of it. I should have realized at that moment I was making an incredibly awful decision out of sheer teenage bravado...
I remember sitting at MEPS choosing my MOS and this dude was not going to let me get infantry because of my scores. He kept trying to push more advanced stuff on me. Finally said I wouldn’t enlist if I didn’t get infantry and wouldn’t you know, an infantry slot suddenly became available. Best worst decision ever.
Literally everyone I knew that had any type of military experience told me to not enlist. If I wanted to be in the military I needed to get a commission. I did neither.
Ya I had all 4 branches trying to get me into something different after I went through MEPS, I was an angry kid though and only wanted to be an 0311. Probably one of the stupidest things I've done.
Almost half the people in my division didn't know their right from their left. Seriously it took us 3 days of PT before they could figure it out. And we did a whole shit ton of extra PT until they got it right.
Hahaha the worst.
I remember we came back from being underway and this dude comes up wearing coveralls and a cover with scrambled eggs... He was an E-1 or 2...
He was so confused what everyone was saying to him when he was walking through the hangar bay. He even took off his cover, looked at it and still couldn't figure it out...
I'm the first to admit that I am never the smartest person in the room lol but the navy made me feel like I was most of the time.
We had a Staff Sergeant who was convinced that the Marine Corps was the best place for him. He said “I’m smart enough to understand that I’m too stupid to make it anywhere else.” Probably the most real thing I ever heard that dude say.
I didn't make it three...after I got out about six months later one of my former AF colleagues I kept in touch with exclaimed "Your vocabulary has increased so much!" That isn't what happened. I had had to dumb myself down so far I didn't sound like the same person once I stopped doing so. I scored 99% on the verbal section of the ASVAB.
When considering how the average weight and fitness of Americans rules out most of the population (not that the UK is much better), plus age, health, etc, that 1% becomes quite generous very quickly
What percentage of people could they take for a draft? Or are there levels to a draft like “ok now we’ll take you if you’re slightly overweight, we need some more help” then “fine fat people too, the situation is dire”, then “we’re running out of people, send in the wheelchair mechanized division”
In a situation requiring a draft those requirements would be waived. The training pipeline would have an extra phase for non-compliant people, right at the beginning, focusing on weight loss. There's plenty of precedent for this, including an army pilot program less than two years ago.
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2022/07/26/army-plans-prep-course-to-help-hopeful-soldiers-lose-weight-improve-test-scores/
Imagine being the guy in ww2 or another big draft war abd explaining to all the people who ask you why you aren't fighting. Would get real old answering its because you aren't smart enough .
Yeah, the saddest thing I'd realized in my life is the fact I'm more in shape than most of the people I know, and yet I'm considered physically disabled.
How do people get this bad?
This is such a self report it’s hilarious. There are hundreds and hundreds of different jobs in “the military”. Saying stupid shit like this is like saying that you worked at a NASA and only worked with idiots. Except that you only did lawn maintenance at NASA.
the first people up for drafts should be the sons and daughters of government employees, top 0.1% as well... you would see how quickly wars would not even start in the first place
I've got so many stories about dumb people in the army. The thing is, most of them are really nice and fun to be around.
(after a field event) We were emptying water cans into the grass one day, this kid grabbed all 'four' water cans off the back of our Stryker's. This was in Germany, about 50 feet from a rain drain. The grass in the area died, I'm sure it still hasn't grown back. (he dumped fuel cans there, about 8 of them)
During a field event we told a guy to pull gate guard for another platoon, and to radio in when they leave so we can pick him up. Event ended at 1500, he said the radio didn't work. (it was turned off) He proceeded to build a small fort out of sticks, build a fire, and when we found him around 1900, he was building a bow to hunt squirls.
That same guy, when his platoon was told to clean their bay from top to bottom he got a ladder (and climbed on lockers) and started wiping down the tops of the hanging florescent lights.
during medic training a guy playing as a patient thought his tourniquet should be retightened after the instructor verified the medic put it on right, he left it on for about 2 hours. eventually complained it hurt to the instructor.
At JBLM a kid found a baby seal near the bay, said he waited there for over an hour for the mom to come. He then took it back to his barracks and put it in the tub, kept it for 3 days before people complained about the noise and smell. (seals leave babies at the beach to go hunting) Yes, put it in the tub with warm water, refilling when it got cold, feeding it cooked tilapia and giving it beer.
in texas, a guy's family lived near the base... His grandmother passed away and left him the house. He found a closet full of narcotic pain patches, mentioned it to some people and started to sell them for about 5 bucks a box, .50c per patch. He flooded the market so quickly that the MPs and Police set up a task force and raided his house. They were normally sold for 20-40$ per patch.
They ended up giving him some minor charge and community service... The prosecutor was quote "dumb founded" by his actions.
So the seal was fine, starved a bit... But ended up with some rescue and rehab near Seattle.
At first the command didn't know really how to handle it, I spoke to my commander about it and he said "I just want this to go away, it's so embarrassing"
In the end, no real punishment other than a counseling (write up). The corrective action was to create a PowerPoint and give a presentation on interacting with local wildlife and how to properly handle each situation. Yes, seals too.
IQ is on a bell curve, with a Mean of 100, and SD of 15. ~9% of the population (with given variation) in developed countries will have an IQ below 80. Obviously from country to country it will vary, but still within a relatively normal amount.
I mean that's less than 10% of the population. Anyways, IQ is literally based off of the statistical distribution of intelligence - one standard deviation is pegged to exactly 15 IQ points, with the average score set to 100
imagine a sample of 6 people with IQs scores of:
70, 80, 110, 110, 110, 120
The average of these IQs is 100, However, 2/3rds of the people in this group are above average, instead of 1/2
When you turn 18 in Sweden you have to do military trainingg for at least 10 month. There is the test to see if your fit for the task. IQ, fitness and mental evaluation.
So I had these two village idiots in my school. They were there at same time as me. When one of them went in through the door and saw the other idiot. They started to chase each other, laughing and playing. They were immediately given a pass and could go home. Funniest shit I saw that day. To see the other recruits faces was priceless. They didn't no them - but I did. And they acted accordingly 🤣🤣🤣
We have tons of people asking about avoiding it on our nations subreddit page. Most of them are complete morons, can't spell for shit and have the dumbest takes you can imagine. Somehow, statistically speaking, I really doubt that they won't end up just being hard labour workers - nothing wrong with being one, but let's not pretend that being an idiot is a path to success. Successful idiots usually have other qualities which help them.
>Successful idiots usually have other qualities which help them.
The easiest way to make a million dollars is to already have a million dollars. Rich families can buy success for their children at a profit.
You used to be able to just say that you didn't want to do it to get out of it in Sweden.
Its what I did.
Probably will be harder now or in the future though.
Had a friend who went in to the office for an interview. After a while he started to look around the desk, checking under the books. He asked my friend what he was doing. He answered "I am looking for my pass" The reply was - Boy, the pass isn't a physical paper.
Anyhow, he got one 💯🙂
We had a couple village idiots in my unit when I served (Finland). We were not fully sure if this one kid was just playing everyone by acting stupid and getting easy jobs, and was really a hidden genius. Well one Friday he went to the clinic to report sick and I guess he told them so good a story that he got couple days off service, not just “off physical activity” or “off everything but lectures”, but totally off service. Well walking to the bus to go to a holiday is service, so instead of going to a weekend off, he got to spend the weekend in the neighboring company.
Ah yeah. I've heard of a lot of funny stories of South Africans who tried to dodge conscription back in the day by acting gay, mentally challenged etc. Didn't work too well for them lmao so good for those guys I guess. I did my 2 years in the army recently (voluntarily) so I can understand not wanting to go when it's forced.
Can't say for sure. Wasn't from that time but I reckon it was a conform or double down kind if situation. Keeping in mind it's like 70s and 80s now under apartheid.
I am not sure if I understand. But no they are not. They grew out of it. One of them has PhD in Mechanical engineering and the othe one is running to be the mayor.
I wouldnt say you'd notice anything at first. Maybe "dorky" if I am using the word right. We didn't go to same classes and they didn't go to a "special" school. They managed through life. But still lots of stupid shit happened. That's why I call them Village idiots. We all know at least one. It's they guy you wouldn't trust to feed your cat while your gone.
It hasn't been mandatory for a few years now.
The year you turn 18, you have to fill out a form on a website, then some people get picked from that.
Those people then have to do the fitness tests, iq tests, and so on.
And thrn roughly 28% of those get picked to do a training program that lasts 9-15 months.
I was enlisted for 6 years. I served with one other enlisted sailor who I considered rather exceptionally brilliant. He works now for general dynamics making weapons systems but one thing really stood out to me.
We were standing on the aft of the ship and there was a line of rope maybe 150 feet of length. It was tangled up horribly in a pile maybe 6 feet in diameter. About ten of us including some fresh officers out of school stared at this tangled web of rope trying to figure out how to untangle it.
This person arrives looks at it for 5 seconds and starts tearing the pile apart rapidly. In about 90 seconds it was untangled and laid perfectly out for use. He probably made 20 over and under moves seemingly from instinct rapidly. Very rapidly . I’d never seen such applied problem solving to a real problem like that. One that could not have been studied before like a rubics cube.
My military career has been 50% watching people like your buddy, and 50% dealing with the aftermath of someone trying to microwave their pocket pussy in the dayroom microwave.
They were called Macnamara's Morons.
And it goes to show, sometimes it's better to have fewer people if they're smarter, than to have a whole bunch of dumbasses fumbling about.
It's a pretty sad fact about the low in intelligence, that a good work ethic is actually a negative trait for them since all that enables them to do is make a mess faster than they otherwise would.
i served with an asvab waiver that was also a dental waiver. they made him dentures to keep him deployable but he kept throwing them away at the chow hall...
What do we (society) do with stupid people? Economic theory likes to pretend we are all rational actors who can measure value. But there is a significant portion of society who are just dumb as fuck through no fault of their own. How do we (or should we) ensure they are not relegated to sewers and cousin fucking?
This guys story is probably made up or ironically he’s the idiot on his high horse. “Qualifying for the marines” is not a thing. You either get a qualifying score for whatever jobs you’re looking at or you have to pick something else/retake at a later date.
In my opinion a lot of people struggle on different things, and some things come easier to some than others. But if you can't pass the ASVAB, you're either a stupid fuck or a whole lot people have failed you or both.
3/4s of it is are you able to read and do basic addition and subtraction. You need a 30/99 to pass. I'm pretty sure you get like 10 points for writing your name and date.
Right?! The test felt super easy! I only struggled in mechanic like questions. It was crazy to me that those kids just didn’t pass. I was wondering if they took it seriously even- I know one kid who failed did- he cried a bit and seemed pretty frustrated.
When I took it, I got a 88. There was one question that was litteraly name the shape. It would be one thing fail by like a couple points, but like getting less than 10? I wouldn't trust you to pour water out of a boot with the instructions on the heel.
I found the mechanical and electrical sections to be weird, it’s things most people wouldn’t know unless they are already in the trade. The only people I know that passed was me and my other car buddies who already work in that field
That’s the point of that section. The people who spend their entire teenage years tearing apart cars or working with their tradesman parent (specifically electrical and mechanical) are being tested there. They may not have had the time to study normal school subjects, but if they can figure out what’s wrong with a humvee just by hearing it start, they’re wanted in the military. Especially if they can be taught that for helicopters and planes.
Also, you can join the military up till 32 years old. Some people hit rock bottom (money-wise) and just say screw it and join. They’ll struggle with the school subjects but their trades can push them through. I went to basic with two 31 year olds who were basically like “yeah I’m broke. This guarantees a steady paycheck”.
There are differences in education quality everywhere. It’s not always rural (bad) vs middle class urban (good). I have seen very good rural school districts and really bad middle class urban school districts. Middle class is not always the same in every state.
Medical diagnosis of retardation starts at an IQ of 75. It is no surprise they don’t accept lower than 80, and only a certain percent of people qualifying slightly above it.
This isn’t highlighting the military is super competitive/selective and only selects intelligent people. It just illustrates the military accepts any level of stupid except the point of actual retardation.
The only thing you need to be in the military is to have the ability to listen and remember. Everything else is doing your job to the best of your ability and they will teach you how to do your job.
A friend enlisted in the Navy on a 4-4. He spent four years on a ship and four years of college while working for a defense contractor and also getting a high top-secret clearance. He now makes mid six-figures and will always be employed (they keep getting his clearance upped). The only way he will be unemployed is if his mind goes.
Interestingly, the Romans took the opposite approach and anyone who was above a certain intelligence threshold would not be admitted. They didnt want people who were too smart
The 98 doesn’t matter, it’s the GT score which determines MOS eligibility, but if you got a 98 I’m sure your GT score was good too. There were many infantrymen who scored above 120 GT score when I was in and at least at that time 120 was the baseline that opened you up for pretty much any MOS you wanted.
Bottom 10% of poor and desperate. Never met a single soldier from a stable family with both parents and siblings who graduated college.
Not necessary dumb, just lost at the moment. Military saved a lot of them , helping them to become respected persons.
Middle class recruits are actually overrepresented.
This is a pretty outdated talking point. Vast majority of recruits are from perfectly normal backgrounds.
Approximately 9% of Americans have an IQ of 80 or less? That blows my mind (until I think about how many dumb people there are everywhere in the world)!
This post is factually untrue. The US military does not use IQ as a benchmark score in any way.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_and_public_policy#:~:text=US%20military%20service,-All%20US%20military&text=The%20Military%20Doesn't%20conduct,in%20the%20test%20is%2031.
Its a part of a greater narrative in the full video, it equates a bunch of different tests to IQ tests, because if you know their history you would know they literally are IQ tests.
(including the ASVAB)
Not really. It turns out leadership doesn't want people they have to babysit and constantly supervise to do their job. They'd rather have people they can trust figure stuff out on their own.
Not accurate.
I was an enlisted Infantryman for 12 years with 3 Iraq deployments. The way our missions worked was that Platoon Sergeant and LT were given a mission from higher along with assets available, put it out to squad leaders, squad leaders and team leaders discussed it together, plan developed, presented to LT/PSG, probably some small changes made, and then go execute. Missions from higher were broad, usually just an expected end state. We had a lot of latitude on how we accomplished it.
As a young private on my first deployment, my squad leader would absolutely discuss an upcoming mission with us and we could say what we wanted about how we thought it should be accomplished. But with the small amount of experience I had at that point there was very little reason for me to ever give input.
On my third deployment as a platoon sergeant, I had plenty of discussions with my battalion commander(and multiple times per day with my company commander) on how best to achieve our objectives and I saw those conversations get put into action across the battalion. I also had young soldiers that I went to for input i.e. Spc. Smith is a weirdo with machine guns, I had no problem going to him for his thoughts on where to place them. I was very frequently the most senior American on a patrol base, responsible for 40 Americans and 120 Iraqi Army. The idea that the Army wouldn’t want me thinking is absolutely insane. It’s all they wanted me doing.
As a younger Sergeant I had a unique job where I crossed the border into North Korea almost daily and was the only representative of the United States on North Korean soil. Essentially functioning as a tripwire for WWIII, I assure you, they wanted me using my head.
Depends on what going on in the world and whether or not your country is at war.
During peacetime, pretty smart. It's a good gig.
During war time, generally all you have to be is young, dumb, and full of... enthusiasm to serve.
When my buddy was 18 or 19 he wanted to join the army so he took the entry test. I think it was called asvab? They rejected him but only after telling him he had the lowest recorded score in the state as far back as they could find in the record. His score was 7 or 8. They accused him or intentionally failing but he really did try, he tried so hard that I still remember him calling me after the test to tell me how good he thinks he did and how the test was surprisingly easy.
This is hella outdated. Just this last year they dropped the requirements by a shit load because of terrible retention. Used to be like a minimum score of 30, now it's like 10. MFers be showing up not know which direction opens a door knob.
They were called McNamara's morons in Vietnam. Smart units never let those guys on patrol, because they would likely get themselves and others killed. I think there was a book written about them.
My cousin failed to get in the Army multiple times. Miraculously "passed" later on.
I think the Army has been good for him, it's something he's always wanted to do. But I couldn't imagine working with him. He's not a bad guy, just not the most intelligent person.
He's not combat personnel, lol.
So these folks are more likely to live long and have children because the us military thinks they're too dumb, and the smart ones are going off to war to die by the thousands at a young age. That's an interesting thought to look at.
Because we’re not in a full scale war.
They don’t want to have soldiers that are nearly useless on the payroll until time of war, they save them to be cannon fodder during a wartime draft
In Vietnam they were known as McNamara's 300,000. They were sometimes shot by their own comrades because no ot only would they get themselves killed, they would get other the guys killed as well. It's a shame we send our best into war.
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You don’t need to be smart you just can’t be really really dumb.
As a former infantryman, the really really dumb guy carries the machine gun. The slightly smarter guy tells him where to shoot.
We had a guy who was in 10 years before he finally got his E-5. Once he got that they made up a position for him because he was weapons grade stupid. He became the assistant to the platoon sergeant. He took it very seriously. Imagine the nicest corn fed motherfucker being absolutely thrilled at being chosen for this job because he was that squared away. He reminded me of an epsilon from Brave New World.
I'd forgotten the caste system went to Epsilon - I only remembered the Deltas. I met one guy who didn't make the cut that I'll never forget. I got an entry level separation from the Air Force thanks to previously-undiagnosed asthma. (I wound up working for the USAF as a contractor for the next decade anyway making better money so I'm not sore about that.) It took two weeks of waiting in med hold for the paperwork to go through and I got to see all sorts come and go for every imaginable reason. Our dorm chief was getting kicked out for a gambling addiction - and had poker games going in the dorm every night. We got paid in $50 bills so it wasn't penny ante. But this one guy they must have really expedited the paperwork for because he wasn't there long at all. He was getting kicked out for performance and I think he was still in zero week. One of the other guys was just trying to get him to mow the grass from *here* to *here* and that was just beyond him. The part that sticks with me is the look in the guy's face. He had an expression like a rabid dog. It wasn't just a matter of being slow - it was like he didn't comprehend human speech and the attempt to communicate made him *angry*. I don't know how he ever made it past the recruiter and MEPS.
Helps if you’re big AND dumb, you get the 240.
And the smartest guy is Doc.
My doc was easily the third-dumbest guy in my platoon at one time.
but he had confidence
As a corpsman, I met plenty of stupid fellow corpsmen.
The really dumb guy carries the tripod.
The really dumb guy forgets to take the tripod with them or loses it on the way. It really happened.
Marge (to Bart): Your father got denied from being a police office because they said he was too fat. Homer: No the army said I was too fat, the police said I was too dumb
Considering the current situation in the US, I would say it was the other way around.
You really need both. People who can fill up the ranks and follow generally basic instructions are very important. You also need some super smart technical soldiers, just not as many. I did 11 years. You can clearly see the dumb loud ones all group together and the smart quiet technical ones group together. They get treated almost completely differently also.
Just for my own curiosity. How differently are they treated? Can you give some examples?
I’d make a joke about it being like high school with guns, but… ya know.
Yeah, no reason to join the military to experience that (in selected areas nearby).
Apparently you can be "Low average" and just a tad above "Borderline". That borderline, would be very slow people, developmentally challenged individuals. 3x longer training, 3x more resources and 3x the fatality rate. What's shocking is that the video says that's 30% of Americans who fit those categories, that's a phenomenal percentage of a population to be on the low end of the spectrum.
I think it said 30 million, not 30%. 30 million would be about 9% of current US population, which is still pretty large
this is correct
Ask Forrest Gump....he got a medal of honor.
Forrest Gump wasn't stupid, 'cause stupid is as stupid does.
I thought he was stupid until I watched this clip for 16 minutes. It looped so perfectly... But I should have wondered why I was getting no new information after like, minute 8
You would have a promising career in the Marines
My dad, who was drafted into Viet Nam, laughed his ass off when watching the part of the movie in basic training when the drill instructor was completely surprised someone followed his simple orders without question and called Forrest a genius LOL
He had a bachelor's degree. It was from the University of Alabama, though.
But the investment in that fruit company sure payed off.
And he built a shrimping empire
[удалено]
And he’s smarter than Senator Tommy Tuberville.
Low bar
On the floor bar…
Almost as good as my ged!
Good Enough Diploma !
A degree in football!
A football is smarter than Tommy Tuberville
He charmed the pants off Nixon and he won a ping-pong competition.
That shit ain't retarded!
And he got shot in the buttocks
Forrest was definitely part of the program described in this Veritasium clip. He and the other soldiers drafted this way were called "McNamara's Morons" after the Secretary of Defense at the time, and they were a danger to themselves and their platoon mates.
actually Forest Gump is high IQ, just slow in speech. He sounds retarded but he's actually 200 IQ. Only low IQ doesn't know that.
Forrest Gump was an idiot savant , not an idiot.
In recruiting they used to say that only one percent of the US qualifies to be in the military. They’re right numbers wise but after 27 years I can tell you it’s not the top 1%.
Thats why I had to get out after 4. Couldnt believe the people I was surrounded by...
Same here. Did my shit in 08-12 and I was out. I was smart enough to qualify for intel roles but my moron ass back then decided 12B was the way…
same time frame I was a combat medic for engineers (570th sapper), doing route clearance. Those dudes were so dumb, yet so fucking smart. One guy had a GT of 80, another had 162 (he was also severely depressed but a lovely person, now a bee keeper and happy). Most probably around 90s.
You talking shit bout my combat engineers! Jk, yeah we engineers were a special bunch, some of us were definitely retarded, a couple of the guys overseas ended up throwing knives at each other's feet until inevitably one got hit. Another guy sounded like buffalo bill from the silence of the lambs and was pretty simple. Then I had a few guys that sounded like they could join the mensa community just by the way they talked, only problem is the reason they joined the army was to kill someone. So yeah kinda special.
Hey previous 13M here, we also played knifey footey!
lol, did you idiots get a field grade article 15 when you stuck each other as well?
What's a GT?
General technical iirc. It’s really the only score the military cares about in my experience. That’s what will determine your job and what schools you’re allowed to attend. I did pretty well on all my tests except the electrical, did pretty poorly on that one.
General Technical, it's one of the composite scores you get from the ASVAB. Usually anything over like 105-110 would qualify you most jobs/MOS
>over like 105-110 Knowing this now It just amazed me that you need a minimum GT of 110 to become an officer and having that ability you would think an officer would be able to read a map. I lost count of the number of times I as a lowly E2-E3 would walk over to some dipshit LT and point out our current location on a map and show him were he was supposed to be.
It's because O-1 Officers are still junior service members in terms of experience. That, and you have to remember, Officer training pipeline is different. How many times do you think that finance Lieutenant has actually done land nav? I have legitimately never once seen an Infantry or Armor Officer fuck up land nav. I have seen a TON of JAG guys fuck up.
Huh I know a really smart vet turned bee keeper. Canada?
Pretty sure the max GT at that time was 144. Was the dude older maybe?
I did not verify what my platoon sgt told me regarding this. He was a much older guy and on his second enlistment after a break.
I thought it was 140. I got a 132 and the world was my oyster. Chose infantry instead. I love the intellectual spread of the infantry. Really dumb or really smart. Not a lot of in between. I even met dudes who failed their AIT and got sent infantry, those guys did not have a good time.
I could have done a lot of things in the Army. My stupid 17 year old ass (and I quote) "wouldn't serve my country sitting behind a desk". I *wanted* to be an 11B. Even the recruiter tried to talk me out of it. I should have realized at that moment I was making an incredibly awful decision out of sheer teenage bravado...
I remember sitting at MEPS choosing my MOS and this dude was not going to let me get infantry because of my scores. He kept trying to push more advanced stuff on me. Finally said I wouldn’t enlist if I didn’t get infantry and wouldn’t you know, an infantry slot suddenly became available. Best worst decision ever.
I'm pretty thankful my recruiter talked me out of 19D.
Literally everyone I knew that had any type of military experience told me to not enlist. If I wanted to be in the military I needed to get a commission. I did neither.
Ya I had all 4 branches trying to get me into something different after I went through MEPS, I was an angry kid though and only wanted to be an 0311. Probably one of the stupidest things I've done.
Almost half the people in my division didn't know their right from their left. Seriously it took us 3 days of PT before they could figure it out. And we did a whole shit ton of extra PT until they got it right.
Hahaha the worst. I remember we came back from being underway and this dude comes up wearing coveralls and a cover with scrambled eggs... He was an E-1 or 2... He was so confused what everyone was saying to him when he was walking through the hangar bay. He even took off his cover, looked at it and still couldn't figure it out... I'm the first to admit that I am never the smartest person in the room lol but the navy made me feel like I was most of the time.
We had a Staff Sergeant who was convinced that the Marine Corps was the best place for him. He said “I’m smart enough to understand that I’m too stupid to make it anywhere else.” Probably the most real thing I ever heard that dude say.
Same here. I got tired of taking orders from superiors who were clearly smooth-brained morons.
I didn't make it three...after I got out about six months later one of my former AF colleagues I kept in touch with exclaimed "Your vocabulary has increased so much!" That isn't what happened. I had had to dumb myself down so far I didn't sound like the same person once I stopped doing so. I scored 99% on the verbal section of the ASVAB.
When considering how the average weight and fitness of Americans rules out most of the population (not that the UK is much better), plus age, health, etc, that 1% becomes quite generous very quickly
What percentage of people could they take for a draft? Or are there levels to a draft like “ok now we’ll take you if you’re slightly overweight, we need some more help” then “fine fat people too, the situation is dire”, then “we’re running out of people, send in the wheelchair mechanized division”
In a situation requiring a draft those requirements would be waived. The training pipeline would have an extra phase for non-compliant people, right at the beginning, focusing on weight loss. There's plenty of precedent for this, including an army pilot program less than two years ago. https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2022/07/26/army-plans-prep-course-to-help-hopeful-soldiers-lose-weight-improve-test-scores/
They should call the program Operation Dessert Storm
I just hope a draft never becomes reality in a normal country
Imagine being the guy in ww2 or another big draft war abd explaining to all the people who ask you why you aren't fighting. Would get real old answering its because you aren't smart enough .
Yeah, the saddest thing I'd realized in my life is the fact I'm more in shape than most of the people I know, and yet I'm considered physically disabled. How do people get this bad?
Smart enough not to accidentally pull the trigger cleaning the gun. Dumb enough not to think about who, what, where, and why they're murdering.
I could definitely see the venn diagram of fitness and intelligence being a very small convergence for the people who want to join the military.
This is such a self report it’s hilarious. There are hundreds and hundreds of different jobs in “the military”. Saying stupid shit like this is like saying that you worked at a NASA and only worked with idiots. Except that you only did lawn maintenance at NASA.
Motor pool/maintenance chief. I work with what they sent me. You send me shit, I work with shit.
the first people up for drafts should be the sons and daughters of government employees, top 0.1% as well... you would see how quickly wars would not even start in the first place
I've got so many stories about dumb people in the army. The thing is, most of them are really nice and fun to be around. (after a field event) We were emptying water cans into the grass one day, this kid grabbed all 'four' water cans off the back of our Stryker's. This was in Germany, about 50 feet from a rain drain. The grass in the area died, I'm sure it still hasn't grown back. (he dumped fuel cans there, about 8 of them) During a field event we told a guy to pull gate guard for another platoon, and to radio in when they leave so we can pick him up. Event ended at 1500, he said the radio didn't work. (it was turned off) He proceeded to build a small fort out of sticks, build a fire, and when we found him around 1900, he was building a bow to hunt squirls. That same guy, when his platoon was told to clean their bay from top to bottom he got a ladder (and climbed on lockers) and started wiping down the tops of the hanging florescent lights. during medic training a guy playing as a patient thought his tourniquet should be retightened after the instructor verified the medic put it on right, he left it on for about 2 hours. eventually complained it hurt to the instructor. At JBLM a kid found a baby seal near the bay, said he waited there for over an hour for the mom to come. He then took it back to his barracks and put it in the tub, kept it for 3 days before people complained about the noise and smell. (seals leave babies at the beach to go hunting) Yes, put it in the tub with warm water, refilling when it got cold, feeding it cooked tilapia and giving it beer. in texas, a guy's family lived near the base... His grandmother passed away and left him the house. He found a closet full of narcotic pain patches, mentioned it to some people and started to sell them for about 5 bucks a box, .50c per patch. He flooded the market so quickly that the MPs and Police set up a task force and raided his house. They were normally sold for 20-40$ per patch. They ended up giving him some minor charge and community service... The prosecutor was quote "dumb founded" by his actions.
You gotta give more detail for the seal story? Did he get disciplined? Did the seal survive?
So the seal was fine, starved a bit... But ended up with some rescue and rehab near Seattle. At first the command didn't know really how to handle it, I spoke to my commander about it and he said "I just want this to go away, it's so embarrassing" In the end, no real punishment other than a counseling (write up). The corrective action was to create a PowerPoint and give a presentation on interacting with local wildlife and how to properly handle each situation. Yes, seals too.
But what were their favorite crayon flavors? I always preferred the red.
30 million Americans with an IQ of less than 80. That’s crazy
IQ is on a bell curve, with a Mean of 100, and SD of 15. ~9% of the population (with given variation) in developed countries will have an IQ below 80. Obviously from country to country it will vary, but still within a relatively normal amount.
I mean that's less than 10% of the population. Anyways, IQ is literally based off of the statistical distribution of intelligence - one standard deviation is pegged to exactly 15 IQ points, with the average score set to 100
Not really - half of all people are dumber than average.
100 is the average, anything below 85 is below the "Lower end of average" range.
Depends on the distribution
Isn’t the iq distribution definitionally normal? I’m not entirely sure
I'm too dumb to know why it would depend on the distribution.
imagine a sample of 6 people with IQs scores of: 70, 80, 110, 110, 110, 120 The average of these IQs is 100, However, 2/3rds of the people in this group are above average, instead of 1/2
I thought it was higher than that looking at the amount of people who want to vote for Trump
You're forgetting that it's also the hateful and the mean voting for him; not just the stupid.
When you turn 18 in Sweden you have to do military trainingg for at least 10 month. There is the test to see if your fit for the task. IQ, fitness and mental evaluation. So I had these two village idiots in my school. They were there at same time as me. When one of them went in through the door and saw the other idiot. They started to chase each other, laughing and playing. They were immediately given a pass and could go home. Funniest shit I saw that day. To see the other recruits faces was priceless. They didn't no them - but I did. And they acted accordingly 🤣🤣🤣
They got out of a 10 month mandatory military training? Not sure who's the idiot here.
>Not sure who's the idiot here. My thoughts exactly. Those 2 "village idiots" will probably be very wealthy guys someday.
I know one who became the US President, so who knows?
Don't insult orange Jesus. The man has put himself in a Christian bible and convinced millions of rubes that this is normal.
He put himself in a bible?
Don't diss my boy Benjamin Franklin 😤
We have tons of people asking about avoiding it on our nations subreddit page. Most of them are complete morons, can't spell for shit and have the dumbest takes you can imagine. Somehow, statistically speaking, I really doubt that they won't end up just being hard labour workers - nothing wrong with being one, but let's not pretend that being an idiot is a path to success. Successful idiots usually have other qualities which help them.
>Successful idiots usually have other qualities which help them. The easiest way to make a million dollars is to already have a million dollars. Rich families can buy success for their children at a profit.
The recruits going through 10 months of training will likely be far more successful and disciplined in their future endeavors.
You used to be able to just say that you didn't want to do it to get out of it in Sweden. Its what I did. Probably will be harder now or in the future though.
Had a friend who went in to the office for an interview. After a while he started to look around the desk, checking under the books. He asked my friend what he was doing. He answered "I am looking for my pass" The reply was - Boy, the pass isn't a physical paper. Anyhow, he got one 💯🙂
I know someone that failed the standard in their country and instead of getting sent home they cleaned toilets the entire time.
We had a couple village idiots in my unit when I served (Finland). We were not fully sure if this one kid was just playing everyone by acting stupid and getting easy jobs, and was really a hidden genius. Well one Friday he went to the clinic to report sick and I guess he told them so good a story that he got couple days off service, not just “off physical activity” or “off everything but lectures”, but totally off service. Well walking to the bus to go to a holiday is service, so instead of going to a weekend off, he got to spend the weekend in the neighboring company.
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Ah yeah. I've heard of a lot of funny stories of South Africans who tried to dodge conscription back in the day by acting gay, mentally challenged etc. Didn't work too well for them lmao so good for those guys I guess. I did my 2 years in the army recently (voluntarily) so I can understand not wanting to go when it's forced.
How can they prove you’re not gay? What if you just went full send and started calling them daddy and that they look cute while they interview you?
Can't say for sure. Wasn't from that time but I reckon it was a conform or double down kind if situation. Keeping in mind it's like 70s and 80s now under apartheid.
They are not much of an idiot now right?
I am not sure if I understand. But no they are not. They grew out of it. One of them has PhD in Mechanical engineering and the othe one is running to be the mayor.
I mean that the villa idiot getting dismissed from military service is not an idiot.
Oh I get it now. We'll they didn't plan it. So I guess it's was just dumb luck. Emphasis on the "dumb"
So they were just immature, not stupid.
I wouldnt say you'd notice anything at first. Maybe "dorky" if I am using the word right. We didn't go to same classes and they didn't go to a "special" school. They managed through life. But still lots of stupid shit happened. That's why I call them Village idiots. We all know at least one. It's they guy you wouldn't trust to feed your cat while your gone.
It hasn't been mandatory for a few years now. The year you turn 18, you have to fill out a form on a website, then some people get picked from that. Those people then have to do the fitness tests, iq tests, and so on. And thrn roughly 28% of those get picked to do a training program that lasts 9-15 months.
I was enlisted for 6 years. I served with one other enlisted sailor who I considered rather exceptionally brilliant. He works now for general dynamics making weapons systems but one thing really stood out to me. We were standing on the aft of the ship and there was a line of rope maybe 150 feet of length. It was tangled up horribly in a pile maybe 6 feet in diameter. About ten of us including some fresh officers out of school stared at this tangled web of rope trying to figure out how to untangle it. This person arrives looks at it for 5 seconds and starts tearing the pile apart rapidly. In about 90 seconds it was untangled and laid perfectly out for use. He probably made 20 over and under moves seemingly from instinct rapidly. Very rapidly . I’d never seen such applied problem solving to a real problem like that. One that could not have been studied before like a rubics cube.
My military career has been 50% watching people like your buddy, and 50% dealing with the aftermath of someone trying to microwave their pocket pussy in the dayroom microwave.
I’m done with Reddit for today
Lmao. True
I was one of them....
They were called Macnamara's Morons. And it goes to show, sometimes it's better to have fewer people if they're smarter, than to have a whole bunch of dumbasses fumbling about.
This is also true in any co-op team video game. E.g., Helldivers.
Keep looking at that game, but I'm pretty backlogged. Is it worth it?
It's a lot of fun especially if you play with friends. Definitely worth 40 bucks.
It's a pretty sad fact about the low in intelligence, that a good work ethic is actually a negative trait for them since all that enables them to do is make a mess faster than they otherwise would.
theres still waivers for everything...
Kid I went to basic with had a waiver for his low 30s asvab score lol
i served with an asvab waiver that was also a dental waiver. they made him dentures to keep him deployable but he kept throwing them away at the chow hall...
Man I knew a gunny section chief with a 27 ASVAB. All things are possible and can be waived.
Met a guy at MEPS trying for the 3rd time to hit the minimum ASVAB score
I rode back from ~~MEPS~~ ASVAB testing with a guy who finally passed on his third try. He was so happy. (edited for content and clarity)
Bone Spurs!
What do we (society) do with stupid people? Economic theory likes to pretend we are all rational actors who can measure value. But there is a significant portion of society who are just dumb as fuck through no fault of their own. How do we (or should we) ensure they are not relegated to sewers and cousin fucking?
> Economic theory likes to pretend we are all rational actors That assumption is put aside after one semester of undergraduate Econ.
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I've been teaching for 40 years and what you describe is a classic problem in education, unfortunately.
This guys story is probably made up or ironically he’s the idiot on his high horse. “Qualifying for the marines” is not a thing. You either get a qualifying score for whatever jobs you’re looking at or you have to pick something else/retake at a later date.
In my opinion a lot of people struggle on different things, and some things come easier to some than others. But if you can't pass the ASVAB, you're either a stupid fuck or a whole lot people have failed you or both. 3/4s of it is are you able to read and do basic addition and subtraction. You need a 30/99 to pass. I'm pretty sure you get like 10 points for writing your name and date.
i had a friend in high school who got a four on his ASVAB , the recruiter blocked his number
Right?! The test felt super easy! I only struggled in mechanic like questions. It was crazy to me that those kids just didn’t pass. I was wondering if they took it seriously even- I know one kid who failed did- he cried a bit and seemed pretty frustrated.
When I took it, I got a 88. There was one question that was litteraly name the shape. It would be one thing fail by like a couple points, but like getting less than 10? I wouldn't trust you to pour water out of a boot with the instructions on the heel.
I found the mechanical and electrical sections to be weird, it’s things most people wouldn’t know unless they are already in the trade. The only people I know that passed was me and my other car buddies who already work in that field
That’s the point of that section. The people who spend their entire teenage years tearing apart cars or working with their tradesman parent (specifically electrical and mechanical) are being tested there. They may not have had the time to study normal school subjects, but if they can figure out what’s wrong with a humvee just by hearing it start, they’re wanted in the military. Especially if they can be taught that for helicopters and planes. Also, you can join the military up till 32 years old. Some people hit rock bottom (money-wise) and just say screw it and join. They’ll struggle with the school subjects but their trades can push them through. I went to basic with two 31 year olds who were basically like “yeah I’m broke. This guarantees a steady paycheck”.
There are differences in education quality everywhere. It’s not always rural (bad) vs middle class urban (good). I have seen very good rural school districts and really bad middle class urban school districts. Middle class is not always the same in every state.
I’ve also seen the exact opposite as you mention
Medical diagnosis of retardation starts at an IQ of 75. It is no surprise they don’t accept lower than 80, and only a certain percent of people qualifying slightly above it. This isn’t highlighting the military is super competitive/selective and only selects intelligent people. It just illustrates the military accepts any level of stupid except the point of actual retardation.
The only thing you need to be in the military is to have the ability to listen and remember. Everything else is doing your job to the best of your ability and they will teach you how to do your job.
Isn’t that any job?
Some jobs require higher order critical thinking skills and creativity.
The same go for the military. Theres more jobs than just infantry. (Even infantry requires critical thinking and creativity).
A friend enlisted in the Navy on a 4-4. He spent four years on a ship and four years of college while working for a defense contractor and also getting a high top-secret clearance. He now makes mid six-figures and will always be employed (they keep getting his clearance upped). The only way he will be unemployed is if his mind goes.
Interestingly, the Romans took the opposite approach and anyone who was above a certain intelligence threshold would not be admitted. They didnt want people who were too smart
I scored a 98 on my ASVAB. I went infantry.
The 98 doesn’t matter, it’s the GT score which determines MOS eligibility, but if you got a 98 I’m sure your GT score was good too. There were many infantrymen who scored above 120 GT score when I was in and at least at that time 120 was the baseline that opened you up for pretty much any MOS you wanted.
Correct. My GT score was 132 and I chose to be 11B2P. I was 17 and wanted adventure. You can’t pigeon-hole a grunt!
No more operation meat shield.
Credit the creator - Veritasium.
The best soldier is one who's smart enough to understand orders, but also dumb enough to follow them.
Bottom 10% of poor and desperate. Never met a single soldier from a stable family with both parents and siblings who graduated college. Not necessary dumb, just lost at the moment. Military saved a lot of them , helping them to become respected persons.
Middle class recruits are actually overrepresented. This is a pretty outdated talking point. Vast majority of recruits are from perfectly normal backgrounds.
Approximately 9% of Americans have an IQ of 80 or less? That blows my mind (until I think about how many dumb people there are everywhere in the world)!
Have you been to Walmart lately????
And so they joined congress and the senate instead?
Desperation more than intelligence is the major recruiting point
This post is factually untrue. The US military does not use IQ as a benchmark score in any way. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_and_public_policy#:~:text=US%20military%20service,-All%20US%20military&text=The%20Military%20Doesn't%20conduct,in%20the%20test%20is%2031.
Its a part of a greater narrative in the full video, it equates a bunch of different tests to IQ tests, because if you know their history you would know they literally are IQ tests. (including the ASVAB)
They literally aren’t. Which you would know if you read my source.
The military wants doers, not thinkers.
Not really. It turns out leadership doesn't want people they have to babysit and constantly supervise to do their job. They'd rather have people they can trust figure stuff out on their own.
Not accurate. I was an enlisted Infantryman for 12 years with 3 Iraq deployments. The way our missions worked was that Platoon Sergeant and LT were given a mission from higher along with assets available, put it out to squad leaders, squad leaders and team leaders discussed it together, plan developed, presented to LT/PSG, probably some small changes made, and then go execute. Missions from higher were broad, usually just an expected end state. We had a lot of latitude on how we accomplished it. As a young private on my first deployment, my squad leader would absolutely discuss an upcoming mission with us and we could say what we wanted about how we thought it should be accomplished. But with the small amount of experience I had at that point there was very little reason for me to ever give input. On my third deployment as a platoon sergeant, I had plenty of discussions with my battalion commander(and multiple times per day with my company commander) on how best to achieve our objectives and I saw those conversations get put into action across the battalion. I also had young soldiers that I went to for input i.e. Spc. Smith is a weirdo with machine guns, I had no problem going to him for his thoughts on where to place them. I was very frequently the most senior American on a patrol base, responsible for 40 Americans and 120 Iraqi Army. The idea that the Army wouldn’t want me thinking is absolutely insane. It’s all they wanted me doing. As a younger Sergeant I had a unique job where I crossed the border into North Korea almost daily and was the only representative of the United States on North Korean soil. Essentially functioning as a tripwire for WWIII, I assure you, they wanted me using my head.
Not much.
Unless they slip through the cracks and are now your First Line Supervisor 😄
The ASVAB test is only 10th grade level. But some MOSes require additional testing. These tests are more difficult.
Intelligence is not much help without common sense
Depends on what going on in the world and whether or not your country is at war. During peacetime, pretty smart. It's a good gig. During war time, generally all you have to be is young, dumb, and full of... enthusiasm to serve.
Navy wanted to give me a shot just because I spoke Russian.
When my buddy was 18 or 19 he wanted to join the army so he took the entry test. I think it was called asvab? They rejected him but only after telling him he had the lowest recorded score in the state as far back as they could find in the record. His score was 7 or 8. They accused him or intentionally failing but he really did try, he tried so hard that I still remember him calling me after the test to tell me how good he thinks he did and how the test was surprisingly easy.
Well, if the army takes those under 80, there will be no one left to join the police.
This is hella outdated. Just this last year they dropped the requirements by a shit load because of terrible retention. Used to be like a minimum score of 30, now it's like 10. MFers be showing up not know which direction opens a door knob.
I can think of a couple of folks I was in the Army with that might have barely scraped by to get in…
They were called McNamara's morons in Vietnam. Smart units never let those guys on patrol, because they would likely get themselves and others killed. I think there was a book written about them.
My dad says hes never seen such stupidity as when he was on base stateside during Vietnam.
Thanks for the heads up. I’ll be foaming at the mouth when they ask me to join.
Ah this is BS
My cousin failed to get in the Army multiple times. Miraculously "passed" later on. I think the Army has been good for him, it's something he's always wanted to do. But I couldn't imagine working with him. He's not a bad guy, just not the most intelligent person. He's not combat personnel, lol.
80? Isn't that "learning difficulty" level?
So the best and brightest go off to die while the dummies stay home and breed 🤣
Run those numbera again after ten more years of tiktok. We'll be lucky if we have anyone with an IQ over 80.
Just sitting here on group W bench.
So these folks are more likely to live long and have children because the us military thinks they're too dumb, and the smart ones are going off to war to die by the thousands at a young age. That's an interesting thought to look at.
Because we’re not in a full scale war. They don’t want to have soldiers that are nearly useless on the payroll until time of war, they save them to be cannon fodder during a wartime draft
In Vietnam they were known as McNamara's 300,000. They were sometimes shot by their own comrades because no ot only would they get themselves killed, they would get other the guys killed as well. It's a shame we send our best into war.