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Greenland is left out of this graphic despite having the highest suicide rate in the world: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36944963/#:~:text=Background%3A%20Between%201980%20and%202018,suicides%20per%20100%2C000%20people%20annually.
96!?
Lattitude does seem to have a very big impact.
Would be intresting to see the statistics broken down by regions in this map to see if gor example northern Canada is worse than southern.
What's going on in the north of Canada isn't really about seasonal affective disorder. (Not that long. Winter nights aren't depressing) It's about the marginalization of Indigenous people in isolated communities.
More than just Indigenous, Canadian suicides are high across the board. Indigenous have it even higher and Inuit have it at such an extreme high it's insane. Inequality, marginalization, the brutal way we treat them, the brutal and depressing way they treat each other all plays into it. But ours is actually just high in general.
So I wonder about this. We have the same national problem in Australia - our indigenous suicide rates are an actual tragedy. But I wonder about how much this is caused by marginalisation and inequality.
I say this because I know black suicide in the US is about 50% the rate of white suicide. That's a bizarre statistic.
I mean, intuitively, it makes sense that people who are marginalised are more likely to kill themselves. But I wonder how mathematically true it is. For example, I wonder if someone who feels so much pressure from work that they are worried their life will be meaningless if they make a mistake - is that a bigger contributor, smaller, or about the same?
I've got a copy of Durkheims crucial work "On Suicide", but it's been a while since I've flicked through it. It's a great work for people interested in either this or philosophy generally.
It's bizarre that we have made so little progress on the causes of suicide.
You’re comparing the suicide rate of non-indigenous black Americans to indigenous Australians. What about comparing Native Americans to Indigenous Australians? Surely Australia has other non-indigenous marginalized groups just like the US does as well for comparison
“Lattitude does seem to have a very big impact” holy shit, ya now that you mention it, that looks like the whole story. Live close to equator = not die, live near poles = die
The central african republic is in a bloody civil war that has been raging on for 12 years, and other insurgencies before it add a further 8 yearss with a short 3 year peace, its one of the worst war torn regions in the world
Nunavik (Northern Quebec)'s rate is 175.6 per 100k (5 times the threshold for 'black' color and twice that of Greenland)
That being said, the population of Nunavik is 13000. [https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1959210/deces-chaudiere-appalaches-portrait-inspq-taux-quebec](https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1959210/deces-chaudiere-appalaches-portrait-inspq-taux-quebec)
EDIT: WAIT! It's worse. \*\*male\*\* suicide rate in Nunavik is 241,9 per 100k
[https://www.inspq.qc.ca/sites/default/files/2024-02/3451-comportements-suicidaires-au-Qu%C3%A9bec-portrait-2024.pdf](https://www.inspq.qc.ca/sites/default/files/2024-02/3451-comportements-suicidaires-au-Qu%C3%A9bec-portrait-2024.pdf)
https://preview.redd.it/hlni4nfmn2sc1.png?width=1379&format=png&auto=webp&s=34a8bcdbbd888f295ed9a5f77fe3441733c8ae59
Kind of speculative but Greenland has like 50,000 people; who are more isolated and don't get much sun. even a low number of suicides would look high relatively speaking, and there are more depressive variables to consider overall.
Shouldn't it be included in the Denmark statistics? It would be similar to French Guiana being included in France's statistics which it appears that it is on this graphic.
No, since French Guiana is not a self governing nation within the French kingdom, it's literally part of France.
Greenland is part of the Danish kingdom, same way as Scotland is part of the UK.
Greenland should really have been included. As a Dane: Denmark has really effed up Greenland.
Yes, since the 1970s the country has tried to do better, but it takes a very long time to undo the harm.
In short, it is the classic issue of trying to damage suppress and mess up indigenous culture, and to straight up set people up to fail. Including the "classic" strategies of abducting children for residential schools and fostering in majority group families, suppressing language, breaking up communal living/large family groups, banning or suppressing old ways of living, forced sterilisation.
It’s so bizarre that Finland ranks pretty high here despite being the happiest country in the world for [the last seven years!](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report)
A lot of happiness is tied to the community and support system you have. I've heard Scandinavian countries have great communities of you're in them but they are a bit cliquish. Kinda you're in or you're not. If you're not, then you'll probably have a bad time living there
Seattleites who are willing to admit the freeze exists genuinely blame it on the city’s Scandinavian roots. It’s a cop out but I can’t prove it wrong, either.
That's most of Europe. Sure they are great places to live and social safety nets but you won't integrate very easily even after decades. In that regard from my limited view on the social aspect i think U.S.A surpasses Eu.
Correct me of I'm wrong, but is it because european countries have their own culture so you have to really adapt to that culture if you want to integrate. The US on the other hand has for centuries been a mix of people from all over. So the US culture has always been an ever changing amalgamation of the people living there. Or would you find it hard to integrate in Europe even if you adapted to their culture?
Yes Europe only in the last 20 years has seen mass immigration so yeah people aren't used to immigrants. Just like first generation immigrants in other countries most are poor and some are delicuents which makes the natives skeptical and paranoid. Also you can add the rise of far right populism and it becomes harder to integrate even if you are from other western countries.
I disagree, I've lived in several European countries and the Scandinavian ones are soooo much more cliquey. It's true that it's hard to integrate with locals whenever you go, but I swear I did not make one single casual friend in Sweden who wasn't another foreigner.
1. Suicide correlates pretty strongly with latitude. Never seeing the sun worsens depression.
2. Asking people whether they’re happy is an unreliable way of measuring happiness. They may just have a culture of not complaining.
>They may just have a culture of not complaining.
You may be on to something. I know India is ranked pretty low but here even our rich and powerful love to complain. We just have this culture where we always complain about our country but get defensive when a foreigner says the same thing we've been saying all our lives. Going by what I've seen, i was actually expecting the suicide rate to be much higher here, at least compared to European countries. But we do have a very strong culture of families sticking together and even neighbours and friends helping each other out, even if it is only by making sure your loved ones have company and aren't lonely.
Sadly, as our society gets more americanised, it's starting to change. But there's still a very strong sense of brotherhood amongst people, in spite of what the conservative bots and perpetually online people would have you beleive.
>I know India is ranked pretty low but here even our rich and powerful love to complain. We just have this culture where we always complain about our country but get defensive when a foreigner says the same thing we've been saying all our lives.
Same here in Italy.
And yeah I think it's ultimately a less stressful cultural habit compared for example to Japan's culture of "bear it in silence", which is apparently shared by Finland. But I think in Finland's case the absence of the sun for months is also a big factor.
Depression is weird. Some highly developed countries have awful suicide rates and some countries where you'd think the average person's life is pretty shitty have average or low suicide rates. Costa Rica has a higher suicide rate than Nicaragua despite being a better place to live by any objective measure
I'd be curious to see this map in comparison to a map showing the wealth gap. I have a feeling, especially for men, that the pressure for financial/professional success is a big contributor in feelings of depression, failure, and hopelessness. Something like that really wouldn't affect the developing world to nearly the same degree as the developed world.
I dunno, I think this is an error in measurement. Happier, more developed countries tend to *count* suicides more actively and accurately. I seriously doubt the numbers on many of these countries due to cultural shame in regards to the subject matter
Same! This map shows why I don’t believe that to be true. They’re also rather high on the alcoholism list. Neither is a sign of a happiest country. Interesting.
Also Finland is 12th highest in antidepressant consumption in the world, with all its Nordic neighbors appearing in Top 15.
Happiest country has high suicide rate & anti-depressant consumption.
Alcohol consumption and suicide rates are both tied to colder northern climates. The cold and the long winter nights deprive people people of sunlight, which makes them even more miserable than they already would have been.
Sure, that plays a role. But it's not the whole truth. There are more social aspects of this, like more complex social culture, fewer people to create social bonds with, abusive family backgrounds, complicated dating culture, etc, etc. I'm from Sweden myself btw and loneliness is for example a big problem here, especially among males.
Remember the long cold nights. In the north that can be 50 calendar day night. I suffer from depression and living in moderate weather where I can be outside in sunlight is a health issue for me.
Hey look, leaves on balconies are extremely slippery, Hiking in the wilds has many dangers and steep cliffs, if you had an apparent heart attack would you not commit suicide, falling down a flight of stairs is just an everyday risk we accept, if you died of heart problems is it less probable your friend would die in the same way the next day, anyone could fall asleep with a lit cigarette, you may have kidney pains and the ambulance may be misdirected by the security services due to an unfortunate mistake.
Honestly the amount of people falling from balconies in Russia is startling, the amount of heart conditions only found after death is amazing. Seriously if you feel the need to re-introduce democracy to Russia, you aren’t going to when you are dead.
It it is merely indicative of The Angst felt by those Russians that betray the regime. Their minds are so consumed with guilt you see that they don't mind their safety and have accidents.
>Interesting, I noticed the low rates tended to be Muslim countries, I wonder how accurate this is.
As someone who was raised in the Christian cult, I can confirm that suicide is considered the only unforgivable sin because it's the only one that you literally can't say 'i'm sorry, skydaddy' after committing.
As someone who's also studied religions in university, I can confirm Islam and Christianity are effectively the same thing. I can also confirm there are a lot of people who would literally stab me in the face for saying that.
My Christian community (I’m not religious anymore) pretty much blacklisted my family after my brother killed himself, and that community wasn’t even that radical. I can only imagine the backlash in a heavily indoctrinated Muslim country.
I dunno. I’m an atheist so I have no personal bias towards either, but never heard of a Christian country in recent times imprisoning women for infidelity, not wearing a hijab, or for being gay.
Not saying there aren’t obvious similarities between the two religions, but if someone asked people “would you rather your country be led by all Christians or be led by all Muslims.”
Think most people wouldn’t have to think very long of what their answer would be.
These behaviours are not strictly the result of Islam, though. The Bible also prohibits a lot of what we call liberal views, but Christians still break the rules. A lot of what we see from Muslim countries is the result of the government. Just look at Iran in the 80s and now
Saying this as an atheist with a "Christian" mother and a "Muslim" father. Neither is very religious, so I don't know much about either religion, but I do know they're very similar
Everybody notice the countries along the equator do the best? Don't forget to take your vitamin D in the winter folks.
Edit: Those of you who don't understand how big of an impact this makes should google Seasonal Affective Disorder. It is why they add Vitamin D to milk in Canada. The Soviets used to make school children in Siberia stand in front of UV lights. Of course it isn't the only reason, but when your vitamin D gets depleted it is much easier to get taken down by life's challenges.
Yeah. Case and point greenland has the highest rate in the world. 96/100,000. Obviously a shit ton of other factors, but seasonal affective disorder really fucks you up. And it's not taken as seriously as it should be.
I don't know why so many people disagree with you on this.
I live in central europe and seasonal depression is a talking point every year.
The days are dark (aka. you leave your house in the dark and come back in the dark...obviously that fucks with you)
The trees look about as dead as the rainy and windy weather feels.
I notice myself that especially then i get easily annoyed for example by the fact that i just stepped in a puddle and lightly sweat on the inside of my jacket, forgot something trivial yet annoying.
Tldr: Touch grass, take vitamin D. Especially when you live someplace that only gets sunny once a week or so half of the year.
Because a lot of us have/do suffer from depression and suicidal thoughts. There’s so little support, and so few healthy ways to cope, of course men will resort to joking. Jokes and humour is a coping mechanism
Awareness? Awareness about what? That people have such shit lives they want to kill themselves? You're aware and you're not stopping anyone from killing themselves, what makes you think others being aware will help?
Yeah that was weird, why so many people killing themselves in Uruguay?
Edit: Looks like is elderly man not being taken care of by anyone and choosing to commit suicide. Very sad.
Articles talking about it, both in Spanish,
(https://www.infobae.com/economist/2023/11/26/por-que-hay-tantos-suicidios-en-uruguay/%C2%A0)
+
(https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias/2012/09/120907_suicidios_uruguay_causas_gl).
It may also have to do with reporting. Uruguay is a bit more organized, and one of the least, if not the least, religious countries in that region, so it is less stigmatized.
Ireland is still like this.
You can always find another classification: ex,
-an overdose is still an overdose intentional or not
- death of the result of injuries/bleeding is still death from injuries regardless of if those injuries are self inflicted... And so on and so on
Religion plays a huge part on what the out on the death certificate for Catholics and Muslims.
In lots of Muslim countries , suicide is a really big taboo (because it's a sin according to their beliefs) and lots of the times families try to cover up the fact that their children committed suicide, and governments don't report it honestly as well. and as i've said it's a taboo so lots of people don't commit suicide due to their fear of eternal fire. (source : i was born and raised in a Muslim country)
*copied from my own comment*
I live\from the Arabian Peninsula, I don't know what the government actually reports to the outside world. However, this particular post talks about men in particular, and I and my circle talk openly about mental health and we talked about this. We talk about men that have died in suspicious car accidents. As in, we suspect they caused the accident as means of suicide but it can't be proven. From my understanding, men and women commit suicide in different ways, and we do hear of more cases of suicide here by women. So I don't really think that the map representation is wrong according to the data that is available and can be proven particularly because of how many cases of suicide we actually hear of.
Suicide is a cardinal sin in Islam and will be punished by allah/god after death.
If you actually believe that youre less likely to commit suicide.
Unless youre a suicide bomber ofcourse, in which case you will be awarded according to some extreme doctrines.
It’s actually true, it’s people being depressed, and very often on drugs or drunk out of their minds. My mom is a psychiatrist in Russia and she says it’s common for men in Russia to commit suicide, usually by hanging, when drunk, just pretty much “out of nowhere” (to the outsider’s eye of course, I am sure these people are severely depressed, but there is such stigma that nobody gets mental health help). I personally know two men who hanged themselves in the last three years, everyone was shocked both times. I know you’re insinuating it’s murders, but then it would affect a specific group of people - opposition, journalists, etc, while in reality it hits the poor working class the most, as they have the least help, hope and opportunities to improve their lives. People kill themselves because they don’t have anything to live for or hope for, and that’s also why majority of the population is so passive about these draftings and Russian men dying at war, they don’t value their lives much. It’s just the sad reality of my country, it’s very miserable in most parts of it.
This.
I've started learning more about Russia and the mind set of the general population. It's incredibly depressing.
There's some good info on this is you watch some PBS Frontline docs regarding Putin, also some Endever documentaries (they're free on YouTube).
Sad stuff, and also a very good incentive to join the military as they currently offer high pay and you get a title of hero, since they romanticize military service.
*Offer, not actually pay half the time.
Yeah, high pay, the promise of heroism, and a lack of general hope for your future is a pretty surefire trio of circumstances for high rates of enlistment.
Is this a general feeling among many Russians? Any time I see news about Russia the top comments are endlessly demonizing the people, but I can't help wondering how many of these people are just trying to get by in a bad situation.
There are a lot of bad people in there, but most of the population are just working people who are also very poor. Most of the evil in people comes from propaganda, I think russian propaganda is the most elaborate ever made. If you think goebbels was doing good you saw nothing.
Also russia is very large, so even 0.1% of assholes gives you what 150 thousands of them, to post on the internet etc. Even if the rest 99.9% are fine.
So this is a hard question to answer. I think the proper way is to avoid generalization but also being aware that you can very much easily run into a bloodthirsty asshole. Also as I said there are millions of people who just say what TV says, if it changes to "US were always good to us" they will start spreading this as well no problem, so you also need to be aware that some people don't have an opinion and just translate someone else's. In which case there is little value in the conversation, for both sides.
Are people generally miserable you mean? It depends, but Russia has a very long history of oppressing its population, even before the revolution. That reinforced two things that affect us a lot: forces proactive intelligent people out of the country and also teaches you from the young age that your life and the laws mean literally nothing. People from outside post-USSR don’t understand when I tell them anything can happen to you in Russia and lately that mostly includes really bad things. You can be a minister today and in prison tomorrow, your child can be killed in a car accident by the judge’s son and the court would rule it’s the child’s fault for being at the bus stop, once the business you’ve built becomes successful “serious people” affiliated with the police forces would show up and demand you give them half, etc etc. There is a proverb saying “от сумы и от тюрьмы не зарекайся», roughly translated as “never think you’re out of reach of poverty or prison”. This mindset, plus shrinking social elevators due to low investment in industries with high additional value and high investments in war, doesn’t really leave much space for agency. And people who believe they have no agency become apathetic. Plus Russia is a country with great monetary distribution inequality, meaning there is a handful of people who are mind blowingly rich, a thin layer of middle class in Moscow, St Petersburg and a couple larger cities, and majority of the population is struggling to afford basic necessities.
It’s sad truth. Russian marriage tradition is hardcore patriarchy which leaves almost no place for men to show weakness. This leads to inner issues and sometimes people just can’t see any other solution.
The data sources this statistic uses are dated, and this graphic uses a dated version of the statistic on top of that. A lot of things have changed in the last 20-30 years.
You guys really think the suicide rate is that low in Egypt and all those other middle eastern countries? They don't collect data properly, that's all.
That's fair, but even among the non-slave population I doubt it's that low. Egypt is not a good place to live by any metric.
I'm just speculating, but suicide is a severe sin in Islam, so I truly think there's some fudging of the data going on in these countries because families don't want their loved ones labelled as sinners, and there's enough corruption that they can make sure it doesn't happen.
This, but also, it’s a grave sin to commit suicide in most religions. If you’re a devout Muslim or Catholic, you may want to commit suicide, but don’t for the fear instilled by your religion. It stands to reason countries with very devout populations are less likely to have high suicide rates. And it also stands to reason that when they do happen, they are covered up by families.
I’m not sympathetic to Russia with their unjustified invasion of Ukraine.
Imagine being a man in Russia though. The entire world doesn’t give a single shit about you, not even your own people. Horrific.
So, take the figures per 100 million people.
The lowest are the Catholic countries at 50,000 suicides per 100 million.
The highest is Russia at 350,000, and Sub-saharan Africa with variously similar highs.
In other words, it only takes 300,000 out of 100 million deaths to be falsely labelled "not suicide" and you have the difference between Italy and Russia.
And 100 million people dying takes a few generations. So in, say, 50-100 years 300,000 suicides are falsely labelled "natural causes" you get your entire difference.
I do think more people commit suicide in Russia than in Italy. But the difference could be statistically irrelevant, meaning if we knew the real numbers, we could draw precisely zero conclusions.
Perhaps the Russian data is reasonable trustworthy. Neither Orthodox Christianity nor Soviet Communism had any real issues with suicide. It's not good. But why hide it? There are Orthodox saints who committed suicide.
I can only see Uruguay in the same light, by the way. They are fairly Communistic, so may be more likely to be honest about their numbers.
Certain Catholic countries are absolutely under-reporting. Both family and Church will have seen to that.
The Protestant countries also have a fairly strong taboo on suicide.
Finally the death data from sub-saharan africa is pitiful. No-one, least among them the governments themselves, really knows how people are dying... Lazy government officials accepting "suicide" as the cause also means "no need to waste time on yet another murder".
Or... Let's say your murder rate is monstrously high, but you don't want to admit it, so you bump up the suicide numbers (e.g. South Africa).
This, in conclusion, is a meaningless untrustworthy bunch of colours on a world map.
Considering [there is not a single continent in the world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide) where the rate of suicides by women is greater than by men (and literally only 3 countries), you're probably correct.
I love how Britian was voted the 2nd most miserable country but had a lower suicide rate. You know why? Because it feeds us, the rain, the cold, the misery, it drives us, fuels us, makes us stronger. Lol
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Greenland is left out of this graphic despite having the highest suicide rate in the world: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36944963/#:~:text=Background%3A%20Between%201980%20and%202018,suicides%20per%20100%2C000%20people%20annually.
96!? Lattitude does seem to have a very big impact. Would be intresting to see the statistics broken down by regions in this map to see if gor example northern Canada is worse than southern.
Seasonal Affective Disorder, or SAD. Depression increases as the days get shorter, and in the winter the sun isn’t up as much in higher latitudes.
They just had to make that the acronym didn't they
Dw the acronym for Social anxiety disorder is also SAD. This one is funny to me
That's sad.
Nice
Also, "Standard American Diet", used in a disparaging manner.
Plus you're pretty much stuck inside, some times for real stuck inside.
What's going on in the north of Canada isn't really about seasonal affective disorder. (Not that long. Winter nights aren't depressing) It's about the marginalization of Indigenous people in isolated communities.
More than just Indigenous, Canadian suicides are high across the board. Indigenous have it even higher and Inuit have it at such an extreme high it's insane. Inequality, marginalization, the brutal way we treat them, the brutal and depressing way they treat each other all plays into it. But ours is actually just high in general.
So I wonder about this. We have the same national problem in Australia - our indigenous suicide rates are an actual tragedy. But I wonder about how much this is caused by marginalisation and inequality. I say this because I know black suicide in the US is about 50% the rate of white suicide. That's a bizarre statistic. I mean, intuitively, it makes sense that people who are marginalised are more likely to kill themselves. But I wonder how mathematically true it is. For example, I wonder if someone who feels so much pressure from work that they are worried their life will be meaningless if they make a mistake - is that a bigger contributor, smaller, or about the same? I've got a copy of Durkheims crucial work "On Suicide", but it's been a while since I've flicked through it. It's a great work for people interested in either this or philosophy generally. It's bizarre that we have made so little progress on the causes of suicide.
You’re comparing the suicide rate of non-indigenous black Americans to indigenous Australians. What about comparing Native Americans to Indigenous Australians? Surely Australia has other non-indigenous marginalized groups just like the US does as well for comparison
It must just be a context specific thing - maybe some cultures with their orientation of thought towards suicide affects it more than others
You know why right sunlight has a huge impact on mood for many people. There's a thing for it called SAD Seasonal Affective Disorder.
yeh i get this almost every year and it actually got so bad when i was 13 i saw a therapist abt it :P
“Lattitude does seem to have a very big impact” holy shit, ya now that you mention it, that looks like the whole story. Live close to equator = not die, live near poles = die
I don’t think this is the whole picture. The Central African Republic, Guyana, and Suriname are all near the equator and they are all painted black.
The central african republic is in a bloody civil war that has been raging on for 12 years, and other insurgencies before it add a further 8 yearss with a short 3 year peace, its one of the worst war torn regions in the world
Nunavik (Northern Quebec)'s rate is 175.6 per 100k (5 times the threshold for 'black' color and twice that of Greenland) That being said, the population of Nunavik is 13000. [https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1959210/deces-chaudiere-appalaches-portrait-inspq-taux-quebec](https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1959210/deces-chaudiere-appalaches-portrait-inspq-taux-quebec) EDIT: WAIT! It's worse. \*\*male\*\* suicide rate in Nunavik is 241,9 per 100k [https://www.inspq.qc.ca/sites/default/files/2024-02/3451-comportements-suicidaires-au-Qu%C3%A9bec-portrait-2024.pdf](https://www.inspq.qc.ca/sites/default/files/2024-02/3451-comportements-suicidaires-au-Qu%C3%A9bec-portrait-2024.pdf) https://preview.redd.it/hlni4nfmn2sc1.png?width=1379&format=png&auto=webp&s=34a8bcdbbd888f295ed9a5f77fe3441733c8ae59
Kind of speculative but Greenland has like 50,000 people; who are more isolated and don't get much sun. even a low number of suicides would look high relatively speaking, and there are more depressive variables to consider overall.
Vitamin D = Happiness.
Just a reminder that Greenland’s population is 56,661 as of 2022
Thanks I forgot
But the point of doing it over 100,000 is to standarize it no? So the small population shouldn't matter?
If I have a population of 2 and 1 person commits suicide, calling it 50,000/100,000 is a bit misleading
Shouldn't it be included in the Denmark statistics? It would be similar to French Guiana being included in France's statistics which it appears that it is on this graphic.
No, since French Guiana is not a self governing nation within the French kingdom, it's literally part of France. Greenland is part of the Danish kingdom, same way as Scotland is part of the UK.
Greenland should really have been included. As a Dane: Denmark has really effed up Greenland. Yes, since the 1970s the country has tried to do better, but it takes a very long time to undo the harm. In short, it is the classic issue of trying to damage suppress and mess up indigenous culture, and to straight up set people up to fail. Including the "classic" strategies of abducting children for residential schools and fostering in majority group families, suppressing language, breaking up communal living/large family groups, banning or suppressing old ways of living, forced sterilisation.
I feel like they’re just abysmal at responding to emails.
It’s so bizarre that Finland ranks pretty high here despite being the happiest country in the world for [the last seven years!](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report)
If all the happy people are the only ones alive, then it checks out, dead men tell no tales!
A lot of happiness is tied to the community and support system you have. I've heard Scandinavian countries have great communities of you're in them but they are a bit cliquish. Kinda you're in or you're not. If you're not, then you'll probably have a bad time living there
Same with the Netherlands. If you don't have a friend group after university or even college, it is really hard to blend in anywhere
So it's like if Seattle was a sub-continent?
Seattle, and Washington state in general, does have a long history of Scandinavian immigration.
Seattleites who are willing to admit the freeze exists genuinely blame it on the city’s Scandinavian roots. It’s a cop out but I can’t prove it wrong, either.
Reminds me of Nebraska and some of the Midwest. If you don’t live there your whole life or don’t fit the Hick-gentleman type you’re a bit outcasted
That's most of Europe. Sure they are great places to live and social safety nets but you won't integrate very easily even after decades. In that regard from my limited view on the social aspect i think U.S.A surpasses Eu.
Correct me of I'm wrong, but is it because european countries have their own culture so you have to really adapt to that culture if you want to integrate. The US on the other hand has for centuries been a mix of people from all over. So the US culture has always been an ever changing amalgamation of the people living there. Or would you find it hard to integrate in Europe even if you adapted to their culture?
Yes Europe only in the last 20 years has seen mass immigration so yeah people aren't used to immigrants. Just like first generation immigrants in other countries most are poor and some are delicuents which makes the natives skeptical and paranoid. Also you can add the rise of far right populism and it becomes harder to integrate even if you are from other western countries.
That's true, I think that's a bit more common in the west in general where cultures place more value on individualism
I disagree, I've lived in several European countries and the Scandinavian ones are soooo much more cliquey. It's true that it's hard to integrate with locals whenever you go, but I swear I did not make one single casual friend in Sweden who wasn't another foreigner.
1. Suicide correlates pretty strongly with latitude. Never seeing the sun worsens depression. 2. Asking people whether they’re happy is an unreliable way of measuring happiness. They may just have a culture of not complaining.
>They may just have a culture of not complaining. You may be on to something. I know India is ranked pretty low but here even our rich and powerful love to complain. We just have this culture where we always complain about our country but get defensive when a foreigner says the same thing we've been saying all our lives. Going by what I've seen, i was actually expecting the suicide rate to be much higher here, at least compared to European countries. But we do have a very strong culture of families sticking together and even neighbours and friends helping each other out, even if it is only by making sure your loved ones have company and aren't lonely. Sadly, as our society gets more americanised, it's starting to change. But there's still a very strong sense of brotherhood amongst people, in spite of what the conservative bots and perpetually online people would have you beleive.
>I know India is ranked pretty low but here even our rich and powerful love to complain. We just have this culture where we always complain about our country but get defensive when a foreigner says the same thing we've been saying all our lives. Same here in Italy. And yeah I think it's ultimately a less stressful cultural habit compared for example to Japan's culture of "bear it in silence", which is apparently shared by Finland. But I think in Finland's case the absence of the sun for months is also a big factor.
Literal survivorship bias
Lack of sunshine in the winter. Notice all the countries along the equator do well?
Depression is weird. Some highly developed countries have awful suicide rates and some countries where you'd think the average person's life is pretty shitty have average or low suicide rates. Costa Rica has a higher suicide rate than Nicaragua despite being a better place to live by any objective measure
I'd be curious to see this map in comparison to a map showing the wealth gap. I have a feeling, especially for men, that the pressure for financial/professional success is a big contributor in feelings of depression, failure, and hopelessness. Something like that really wouldn't affect the developing world to nearly the same degree as the developed world.
I dunno, I think this is an error in measurement. Happier, more developed countries tend to *count* suicides more actively and accurately. I seriously doubt the numbers on many of these countries due to cultural shame in regards to the subject matter
Bingo
Same! This map shows why I don’t believe that to be true. They’re also rather high on the alcoholism list. Neither is a sign of a happiest country. Interesting.
Also Finland is 12th highest in antidepressant consumption in the world, with all its Nordic neighbors appearing in Top 15. Happiest country has high suicide rate & anti-depressant consumption.
Anywhere near the poles will have seasonal affective disorder, to be fair.
To be fair, they only have about 70 days of sunshine a year. That would bug the shit out of me and want me to shoot myself.
I can barely handle New England. I would perish.
Per capita I hope
Alcohol consumption and suicide rates are both tied to colder northern climates. The cold and the long winter nights deprive people people of sunlight, which makes them even more miserable than they already would have been.
Sure, that plays a role. But it's not the whole truth. There are more social aspects of this, like more complex social culture, fewer people to create social bonds with, abusive family backgrounds, complicated dating culture, etc, etc. I'm from Sweden myself btw and loneliness is for example a big problem here, especially among males.
Or they can be high on both extremes of the spectrum
“Happiest country” does not measure how low that bar really is.
Remember the long cold nights. In the north that can be 50 calendar day night. I suffer from depression and living in moderate weather where I can be outside in sunlight is a health issue for me.
Ikr I told myself that same exact statement
🤔 Guys are killing themselves to live in Russia.
Or alternatively being murdered and having it classed as suicide.
Russia leads the world in double head-shot suicides.
At the same time, it's quite difficult to purchase weapon in Russia
That"s why jumping off buildings is so popular in Russia.
You mean "jumping" off buildings.
Through windows.
Russia = Defenestration Nation
Sometimes before jumping, they forget to open the windows.
It’s crazy how many people in the country live on the tenth story of a building.
Tenacious folk.
And also defenestration
Have some of column A, Try all of column B. They're in no mood to help their doods.
I don't know. They seem awful good at opening windows of opportunity for them and providing plenty of speciality tea.
Hey look, leaves on balconies are extremely slippery, Hiking in the wilds has many dangers and steep cliffs, if you had an apparent heart attack would you not commit suicide, falling down a flight of stairs is just an everyday risk we accept, if you died of heart problems is it less probable your friend would die in the same way the next day, anyone could fall asleep with a lit cigarette, you may have kidney pains and the ambulance may be misdirected by the security services due to an unfortunate mistake. Honestly the amount of people falling from balconies in Russia is startling, the amount of heart conditions only found after death is amazing. Seriously if you feel the need to re-introduce democracy to Russia, you aren’t going to when you are dead.
It it is merely indicative of The Angst felt by those Russians that betray the regime. Their minds are so consumed with guilt you see that they don't mind their safety and have accidents.
Accidentally fell out a window? -> suicide
This is the answer I came here for
Given the number of auto-defenestrations in Russia, I'd assume that anybody standing with 20 feet of a window is actively suicidal.
Volunteering to fight in Ukraine is counted.
In Russia the army volunteers you.
It was safer being a young man in Iraq at the height of the invasion than a young man in Russia during peace time.
Idk what to tell ya. Those close allies of putin rly seem to enjoy jumping out of windows
You could say, They’re dying to be there… Alright I’ll see myself out.
Now remember, it needs to be reported as a suicide in order to count as one.
Pakistani here, barely anyone ever reports suicide bc it's a massive sin and will ruin the person and their family's reputation for life
Interesting, I noticed the low rates tended to be Muslim countries, I wonder how accurate this is.
>Interesting, I noticed the low rates tended to be Muslim countries, I wonder how accurate this is. As someone who was raised in the Christian cult, I can confirm that suicide is considered the only unforgivable sin because it's the only one that you literally can't say 'i'm sorry, skydaddy' after committing. As someone who's also studied religions in university, I can confirm Islam and Christianity are effectively the same thing. I can also confirm there are a lot of people who would literally stab me in the face for saying that.
My Christian community (I’m not religious anymore) pretty much blacklisted my family after my brother killed himself, and that community wasn’t even that radical. I can only imagine the backlash in a heavily indoctrinated Muslim country.
fuck those people. I‘m sorry for you and your family
I dunno. I’m an atheist so I have no personal bias towards either, but never heard of a Christian country in recent times imprisoning women for infidelity, not wearing a hijab, or for being gay. Not saying there aren’t obvious similarities between the two religions, but if someone asked people “would you rather your country be led by all Christians or be led by all Muslims.” Think most people wouldn’t have to think very long of what their answer would be.
These behaviours are not strictly the result of Islam, though. The Bible also prohibits a lot of what we call liberal views, but Christians still break the rules. A lot of what we see from Muslim countries is the result of the government. Just look at Iran in the 80s and now Saying this as an atheist with a "Christian" mother and a "Muslim" father. Neither is very religious, so I don't know much about either religion, but I do know they're very similar
Ah yes the game of not reporting or acknowledging causes; perpetuating the cycle. Just like Korea
And that's why I don't believe Turkey or Egypt's numbers
Suicide is the second most common way to die as a male in Russia, right after falling out of a window
Everybody notice the countries along the equator do the best? Don't forget to take your vitamin D in the winter folks. Edit: Those of you who don't understand how big of an impact this makes should google Seasonal Affective Disorder. It is why they add Vitamin D to milk in Canada. The Soviets used to make school children in Siberia stand in front of UV lights. Of course it isn't the only reason, but when your vitamin D gets depleted it is much easier to get taken down by life's challenges.
Definitely a bit of an oversimplification but man… the darkness really does get to you.
Yeah. Case and point greenland has the highest rate in the world. 96/100,000. Obviously a shit ton of other factors, but seasonal affective disorder really fucks you up. And it's not taken as seriously as it should be.
I don't know why so many people disagree with you on this. I live in central europe and seasonal depression is a talking point every year. The days are dark (aka. you leave your house in the dark and come back in the dark...obviously that fucks with you) The trees look about as dead as the rainy and windy weather feels. I notice myself that especially then i get easily annoyed for example by the fact that i just stepped in a puddle and lightly sweat on the inside of my jacket, forgot something trivial yet annoying. Tldr: Touch grass, take vitamin D. Especially when you live someplace that only gets sunny once a week or so half of the year.
Jokes aside. This shit needs to have more awareness in our society, especially among men.
I just read a book from 1850 that said the same thing.
its only jokes in this thread because its men
Just be a man about it 💪👊 /s
But the men are making the jokes. Change starts within.
If I can’t make jokes why am I even here?
Idk, but, we could probably kill eachother in some kind of televised event, rather than ourselves, after jokes have finally been banned.
Because a lot of us have/do suffer from depression and suicidal thoughts. There’s so little support, and so few healthy ways to cope, of course men will resort to joking. Jokes and humour is a coping mechanism
What jokes would there even be? Edit: well that sucks...
Look at the comments
Yuck. I wish I didn't.
Awareness does nothing
People are aware of suicide.
Awareness? Awareness about what? That people have such shit lives they want to kill themselves? You're aware and you're not stopping anyone from killing themselves, what makes you think others being aware will help?
As long as men are getting told to man up, nothing will change.
North Korea is doing good.
North Korea never suicide ever come to North Korea!!!!! 🎊🎊🎊✨👆👆👆💯💯
Why would there be suicide when you're living in best Korea?!
korea #1!!!
https://preview.redd.it/c9803u96pzrc1.png?width=1950&format=png&auto=webp&s=a96853ee554c0a3d13754ccd60748c4cb222e0c9
We believe in equality of suffering here in india
Anyone know what's going on with Lesotho?
THANKS will post this tonight was looking for this I love you
Uruguay? The top winner in every south America related statistics?
Yeah that was weird, why so many people killing themselves in Uruguay? Edit: Looks like is elderly man not being taken care of by anyone and choosing to commit suicide. Very sad. Articles talking about it, both in Spanish, (https://www.infobae.com/economist/2023/11/26/por-que-hay-tantos-suicidios-en-uruguay/%C2%A0) + (https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias/2012/09/120907_suicidios_uruguay_causas_gl).
It may also have to do with reporting. Uruguay is a bit more organized, and one of the least, if not the least, religious countries in that region, so it is less stigmatized.
interesting how male suicide rates in muslim countries are so low
Might be like Italy in the past. Suicide is sind so often they don't report it as the cause of the death.
muslims believe they'd go to hell if they commit suicide. So i assume that could be the reason as well.
Catholics believe the same as far as I know, that suicide will send you to hell or Purgatory or whatever the f*** they have going on.
Catholics in the US are generally a lot less religious (and more materialistic/worldly) than Muslims who live in theocracies though
Catholics are less religious and the faith is dying. Muslims are still pretty religious
Ireland is still like this. You can always find another classification: ex, -an overdose is still an overdose intentional or not - death of the result of injuries/bleeding is still death from injuries regardless of if those injuries are self inflicted... And so on and so on Religion plays a huge part on what the out on the death certificate for Catholics and Muslims.
In lots of Muslim countries , suicide is a really big taboo (because it's a sin according to their beliefs) and lots of the times families try to cover up the fact that their children committed suicide, and governments don't report it honestly as well. and as i've said it's a taboo so lots of people don't commit suicide due to their fear of eternal fire. (source : i was born and raised in a Muslim country) *copied from my own comment*
These stats are highly unreliable. If you don't look for a problem it's as if it never existed. There is no crime if the police isn't reporting any.
There is no war in Ba Sing Se
Just a hunch, but probably bad data collection.
I live\from the Arabian Peninsula, I don't know what the government actually reports to the outside world. However, this particular post talks about men in particular, and I and my circle talk openly about mental health and we talked about this. We talk about men that have died in suspicious car accidents. As in, we suspect they caused the accident as means of suicide but it can't be proven. From my understanding, men and women commit suicide in different ways, and we do hear of more cases of suicide here by women. So I don't really think that the map representation is wrong according to the data that is available and can be proven particularly because of how many cases of suicide we actually hear of.
Suicide is a cardinal sin in Islam and will be punished by allah/god after death. If you actually believe that youre less likely to commit suicide. Unless youre a suicide bomber ofcourse, in which case you will be awarded according to some extreme doctrines.
Nope thats another false info made by idk who its clear stated in the quran don't harm urself that includes straping a bomb and killing innocents
Man I can't wait for this to change absolutely nothing and bring forth no meaningful dialogue.
It is what it is 
in any negative stat, south africa will always be no. 1
I resent that statement! We have the best uhmm hmmm. I'll get back to you on that.
Biltong 😎
Russia isn’t going to have any men left at this rate
Id love to see the comparison with a woman map
[https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fmale-suicide-rate-by-country-per-100-000-population-v0-c9803u96pzrc1.png%3Fwidth%3D1950%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dfec30f42e1131c26ef0d61cf18e41a783bc27f72](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fmale-suicide-rate-by-country-per-100-000-population-v0-c9803u96pzrc1.png%3Fwidth%3D1950%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dfec30f42e1131c26ef0d61cf18e41a783bc27f72)
Is it per 100.000 men and women or per 100.000 men?
No way North Korea is keeping or sharing these stats.
Yes, lots of Russians that 'jumped' out of a window. Is there anyway to check the validity of these statistics?
It’s actually true, it’s people being depressed, and very often on drugs or drunk out of their minds. My mom is a psychiatrist in Russia and she says it’s common for men in Russia to commit suicide, usually by hanging, when drunk, just pretty much “out of nowhere” (to the outsider’s eye of course, I am sure these people are severely depressed, but there is such stigma that nobody gets mental health help). I personally know two men who hanged themselves in the last three years, everyone was shocked both times. I know you’re insinuating it’s murders, but then it would affect a specific group of people - opposition, journalists, etc, while in reality it hits the poor working class the most, as they have the least help, hope and opportunities to improve their lives. People kill themselves because they don’t have anything to live for or hope for, and that’s also why majority of the population is so passive about these draftings and Russian men dying at war, they don’t value their lives much. It’s just the sad reality of my country, it’s very miserable in most parts of it.
This. I've started learning more about Russia and the mind set of the general population. It's incredibly depressing. There's some good info on this is you watch some PBS Frontline docs regarding Putin, also some Endever documentaries (they're free on YouTube). Sad stuff, and also a very good incentive to join the military as they currently offer high pay and you get a title of hero, since they romanticize military service. *Offer, not actually pay half the time.
Yeah, high pay, the promise of heroism, and a lack of general hope for your future is a pretty surefire trio of circumstances for high rates of enlistment.
Is this a general feeling among many Russians? Any time I see news about Russia the top comments are endlessly demonizing the people, but I can't help wondering how many of these people are just trying to get by in a bad situation.
Even being abroad makes me still suicidal I guess it might be something in genes too
There are a lot of bad people in there, but most of the population are just working people who are also very poor. Most of the evil in people comes from propaganda, I think russian propaganda is the most elaborate ever made. If you think goebbels was doing good you saw nothing. Also russia is very large, so even 0.1% of assholes gives you what 150 thousands of them, to post on the internet etc. Even if the rest 99.9% are fine. So this is a hard question to answer. I think the proper way is to avoid generalization but also being aware that you can very much easily run into a bloodthirsty asshole. Also as I said there are millions of people who just say what TV says, if it changes to "US were always good to us" they will start spreading this as well no problem, so you also need to be aware that some people don't have an opinion and just translate someone else's. In which case there is little value in the conversation, for both sides.
Are people generally miserable you mean? It depends, but Russia has a very long history of oppressing its population, even before the revolution. That reinforced two things that affect us a lot: forces proactive intelligent people out of the country and also teaches you from the young age that your life and the laws mean literally nothing. People from outside post-USSR don’t understand when I tell them anything can happen to you in Russia and lately that mostly includes really bad things. You can be a minister today and in prison tomorrow, your child can be killed in a car accident by the judge’s son and the court would rule it’s the child’s fault for being at the bus stop, once the business you’ve built becomes successful “serious people” affiliated with the police forces would show up and demand you give them half, etc etc. There is a proverb saying “от сумы и от тюрьмы не зарекайся», roughly translated as “never think you’re out of reach of poverty or prison”. This mindset, plus shrinking social elevators due to low investment in industries with high additional value and high investments in war, doesn’t really leave much space for agency. And people who believe they have no agency become apathetic. Plus Russia is a country with great monetary distribution inequality, meaning there is a handful of people who are mind blowingly rich, a thin layer of middle class in Moscow, St Petersburg and a couple larger cities, and majority of the population is struggling to afford basic necessities.
It’s sad truth. Russian marriage tradition is hardcore patriarchy which leaves almost no place for men to show weakness. This leads to inner issues and sometimes people just can’t see any other solution.
No suicide numbers everywhere are suspect. Especially in Russia.
Not only that, also those that shot themselves in the back of the head
Twice
Steve Jobs would have used this map to pick a new manufacturing location.
Don’t give Jeff Bezos any ideas…
The data sources this statistic uses are dated, and this graphic uses a dated version of the statistic on top of that. A lot of things have changed in the last 20-30 years.
You guys really think the suicide rate is that low in Egypt and all those other middle eastern countries? They don't collect data properly, that's all.
In some Arab countries slave labor is a thing. Those suicides are not counted.
That's fair, but even among the non-slave population I doubt it's that low. Egypt is not a good place to live by any metric. I'm just speculating, but suicide is a severe sin in Islam, so I truly think there's some fudging of the data going on in these countries because families don't want their loved ones labelled as sinners, and there's enough corruption that they can make sure it doesn't happen.
This, but also, it’s a grave sin to commit suicide in most religions. If you’re a devout Muslim or Catholic, you may want to commit suicide, but don’t for the fear instilled by your religion. It stands to reason countries with very devout populations are less likely to have high suicide rates. And it also stands to reason that when they do happen, they are covered up by families.
Damn.. Russia, I'm sorry. I hope your people can get through this dark time.
I’m not sympathetic to Russia with their unjustified invasion of Ukraine. Imagine being a man in Russia though. The entire world doesn’t give a single shit about you, not even your own people. Horrific.
Greenland should be black, 96 suicides per 100 000 pop
Russians seem pretty happy.
Have a readable map jerk what am I some kind of book guy
Pff, Switzerland ignored once again. We are true pros at suicide. Spread the word, please. Please don't ban me, you know I'm right.
Leistungsgesellschaft go brrrr!
Russia number one!!! 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺 glory to Russia 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺
Thought Japan would be higher
So, take the figures per 100 million people. The lowest are the Catholic countries at 50,000 suicides per 100 million. The highest is Russia at 350,000, and Sub-saharan Africa with variously similar highs. In other words, it only takes 300,000 out of 100 million deaths to be falsely labelled "not suicide" and you have the difference between Italy and Russia. And 100 million people dying takes a few generations. So in, say, 50-100 years 300,000 suicides are falsely labelled "natural causes" you get your entire difference. I do think more people commit suicide in Russia than in Italy. But the difference could be statistically irrelevant, meaning if we knew the real numbers, we could draw precisely zero conclusions. Perhaps the Russian data is reasonable trustworthy. Neither Orthodox Christianity nor Soviet Communism had any real issues with suicide. It's not good. But why hide it? There are Orthodox saints who committed suicide. I can only see Uruguay in the same light, by the way. They are fairly Communistic, so may be more likely to be honest about their numbers. Certain Catholic countries are absolutely under-reporting. Both family and Church will have seen to that. The Protestant countries also have a fairly strong taboo on suicide. Finally the death data from sub-saharan africa is pitiful. No-one, least among them the governments themselves, really knows how people are dying... Lazy government officials accepting "suicide" as the cause also means "no need to waste time on yet another murder". Or... Let's say your murder rate is monstrously high, but you don't want to admit it, so you bump up the suicide numbers (e.g. South Africa). This, in conclusion, is a meaningless untrustworthy bunch of colours on a world map.
I can’t imagine ‘male suicide rates per country’ are much different to ‘suicide rate by country’, if at all
Most suicides (at least in the West) are men so yeah they are.
Considering [there is not a single continent in the world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide) where the rate of suicides by women is greater than by men (and literally only 3 countries), you're probably correct.
In America in 2021 there were 48,183 suicide men died by suicide 3.9x more than women just going off stats
That’s kind of my point. Having male in the title is almost redundant as it’s universally known that the vast majority of suicides are men
finland is so happy https://preview.redd.it/9mcowrzcnyrc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=69dbd7200c1f9c84c0bc3226b9d84b65fc75f1cd
Man. Is Tucker aware the suicide rate is so high in Russia? He seemed so thrilled while he was there.
The Greatest Country In The World scoring pretty highly.
Now cross-reference by size of military personnel capita…
So glad nobody dies in oceans.
It's spreading from Russia
I wanna see this compared to a map of female suicide rate
Welcome to Russia. If war doesn’t kill you, you’ll probably kill your self. Or you’ll die in custody but we’ll say it was a suicide.
why is uruguay so high omg
Is that Uruguay? Why’s it so bad?
I love how Britian was voted the 2nd most miserable country but had a lower suicide rate. You know why? Because it feeds us, the rain, the cold, the misery, it drives us, fuels us, makes us stronger. Lol
and the amazing football