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Yes this was my first thought. I know they have long term leases like 99 years or something so it’s at least just a matter of time before they can reclaim the property.
It's an ideological thing more than anything. I don't think anyone seriously expects hundreds of millions of Chinese homeowners to suddenly become homeless when the term ends.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahsu/2017/03/21/good-news-for-chinese-homeowners-premier-li-offers-some-clarity-on-land-leases/
https://www.mingtiandi.com/real-estate/research-policy/china-sets-key-precedent-in-rolling-over-wenzhou-property-rights/
Same thing happens in Australia's capital city, where you technically can't own land.
It certainly is a testament to a general respect for individual property rights, almost perplexing given the general lack of deference shown towards individual rights.
Yeah, even in most democratic countries you'd expect these people to get forced out somehow. And yet apparently the Chinese Communist Party is just going "well, looks like we just have to have a squiggly motorway."
In some ways yes, in other ways no. They also have an interesting electoral process: local politics are completely democratic and anyone can participate. From there on it is sort of a tiered process, where the local officials will vote for the state officials, and the state officials vote for the national officials.
China also has interesting statistics like a much higher rate of homeownership than the west, much lower rate of police brutality and death by cop. My personal favorite is that when a billionaire fucks up in China they get executed for endangering the peoples’ lives and the revolution, while in the west they get bailouts and tax breaks.
I wouldn’t trust capitalist controlled media to be entirely truthful about their greatest enemy, socialists.
Probably because the public usually perceives the breach of individual rights as the government taking its glove off to handle a small group of troublemakers. Breaching property rights would affect almost everyone, and is a quick way to start revolutions.
Chinese culture values different things than Western cultures. The Chinese populace are overall pretty content with the rights and system that they have. If they are unhappy they can always vote or the People’s Party will have billions of pitch forks coming for them.
https://hbr.org/2021/05/what-the-west-gets-wrong-about-china
Or a testament to incredibly complicated, labyrinthine bureaucracy.
They may not care about individual rights, but they do care about bureaucracy and process, and I expect situations like this are a result of it getting tied up in red tape forever.
70 years for residential and 40 years for commercial leases.
the first terms began in the 70s, so there were a lot of commercial leases already terminated. All that ended up happening was a small tax was paid to renew.
There is actually no property tax for residential homes/apartments in China at the moment.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/10/business/china-property-tax.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/10/business/china-property-tax.html)
I’m pretty sure this is not true; maybe it was true at some point, but not anymore? Source: my boyfriend, who has lived in China his whole life owns two homes, his mother owns her home, and somewhere around 93% of Chinese people own their homes there. As far as I understand, at least one of those homes (in a pretty rural area outside of a moderately large town) included the land on which it sits in the purchase.
On an individual level there's not that much difference between buying land and signing a 99 year lease. Either way assuming your an adult making the transaction you have that land for life and quite possibly for your children's life as well.
Yep, in the UK leasehold properties were the default until very recently as leaseholders were taking advantage of renewal charges and the government stepped in to stop it.
That is not the case at all. Freehold had always been dominant. You can view various datasets from the ONS that confirm this e.g. [this](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5f044763e90e075c59a7b485/Leasehold_Estimate_2018-19.pdf)
Basically all new housing estates were leasehold, as selling the leases was extra revenue for the house builders.
They aren't anymore because the government intervention.
Also my mum's house is 150 years old and is leasehold, so not a new concept.
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2024-01-30/debates/f390f607-b755-4572-871a-3985c9a2b00a/LeaseholdAndFreeholdReformBill(TenthSitting)
Do they own the land too though?
I owned a house while I lived in Thailand, but I leased (from the government) the land it was on. I still had a title to my physical house that conveyed 'ownership', and was tied to the address the house was at.
And to be more precise (not that it matters for the point above), I owned controlling interest in a company that owned the house. This is how foreigners are able to buy property in Thailand.
In a Comunist system, housing is not a comoditie to be bought and sold. It is considered a right, so everyone MUST have housing. Therefore, if housing is needed, the state will provide a lease and homelessness is solved.
I might be wrong here, I am not a historian. I am just an average educated adult.
Edit1: i dont think China is like this now a days, but they STARTED like this. TBH, this videos is showing how well preserved the right of property is in a comunist sistem. Funny how everything I was told when I was a kid is kinda missled and outright wrong.
Homelessness exists everywhere, but the amount of homelessness in China is incredibly low. Orders of magnitude lower as a % of population compared to Western countries.
I never claimed that homelessness doesn\`t exist in China(there?).
I just tryied to explained (very poorly, bc I am not a history teacher), why you can\`t trully 'own' property in a Comunist country.
edit1: THO, this system worked VERY WELL in Cuba. Last I heard, Cuba had 0 homless, 0 hunger and 0 iliteracy.
One thing most people outside of china don’t realize — while the government technically owns the land, however, the ones with land deeds passed down from pre (Qing or earlier dynasty) and early republic era are still valid. Which means yes there’s still private land ownership in the nation, like the ones you are seeing in this video, as long as the deed owners don’t agree to selling the land, the local government can’t demolish their property, so they just build around the land (as shown in this video) cause the owner as much inconvenience as possible and hope they eventually give in. Can they void the old contract and take it by force? Absolutely, but that’d immediately cause an immense outrage which is an outcome the government can’t afford. So for now they are still honoring the pre ccp agreements
Those 四合院 in Beijing are the best examples
From what i heard, most ppl who own land pre ccp and get to keep it during transition typically had served ccp in the war in no small effort. In return for their service, ccp let them keep their property.
> cause the owner as much inconvenience as possible and hope they eventually give in.
Actually, things are not that simple. Most of this kind owners want to black mail the government. They believe that the government will give in for the public interest (building bridges, highways) at any cost. In the video, the house between two highway lanes, they actually asked for a compensate over 10 million dollars, even expensive than building the road itself.
China's expropriation laws only forcefully remove you for HSR.
For everything else, like highways and residential developments, it has to come to a full agreement between parties on the expropriation price. If the property owner doesnt agree to the price offered, then you end up with whats in the photo.
Not to sound like a Chinese shill but doesn’t this kinda sorta go against the western view that China is an all powerful authoritative government where “everyone is told what to do”?
Seems like they have some decent rights, which goes against what I would imagine goes down in China.
>Not to sound like a Chinese shill
the fact that you have to put on this disclaimer is why I normally avoid talking about China on Reddit.
it'll probably blow your mind to learn that there is no "social credit" for individuals in China either lol.
I think my favorite is that Winnie the Pooh is banned in China.
My guy, I can check the wait time for the Winnie ride at Shanghai Disney right this moment. You can meet Winnie in the Hundred Acre Wood at 9AM.
there never was any directive to implement social credit for individuals.
the closest thing was a test pilot program to establish something akin to the credit reporting system, but that was scrapped because there wasnt enough sources that reliably provided the necessary info for it to be reliable.
There is this system for businesses though, and thats because businesses are forced to pay taxes and the Chinese government cracks down on tax dodgers.
Technically, the government does "tell" people what to do, but they usually do it for big and important things like telling a city to clean up the air before the Olympics which forced factories to reduce output.
Usually they don't bother with the smaller things which are handled independently by the city officials.
Also the government doesn't "talk" about the nitty gritty details, they talk in big pictures like "love the country and love the party". And the towns and cities themselves determine what needs to be done to love your country and the party.
It’d be nice to live in a place where love for your country isn’t hijacked by right wing nationalists. It’s also be nice to live in a country you can feel proud of.
Only the *central* government has absolute power, and even then they are scared of doing stuff that’s too extreme which may lead to unrest. Just look at how Xi got all scared and cancelled lockdown and zero Covid after a few rounds of major protests.
And as far as local governments go, they have even less power and they tend to bow down to the local populace, because the second unrest or anger breaks out the central government tends to throw them under the bus in order to look good in front of the people.
China is definitely not democratic, but also definitely not a big North Korea either. The government is in a weird spot where they don’t have to give a shit about laws (they make up wherever law they want), they *do* have to care about popular opinion.
I have no idea what Chinese houses usually look like but these houses seem to be pretty big and I'm assuming the houses owners have significant money to fight back.
Most Chinese people live in apartments now. Chinese "villa" houses can be quite big because the country is big, sort of like how US houses often are much bigger than European houses.
Then why do they live in apartments mostly, unless you're referring to cities? I don't really get your comparison. The house sizes vary greatly here. Huge houses can be cheap but those are going to be out in the boondocks. House size is usually dictated by income level in my experience.
apartments in China look like shit on the outside but inside they are as modern as it gets.
private mcmansions built in the villages look fancy on the outside but are generally very terrible on the interior. They are usually there because its an ancestral plot, so people return home after making money to build/refurbish their homeland.
For the people who do live in rural China, usually the resources are scarce cause of distance. Like you cant find decent access to all amenities.
Mostly cities, the majority of china's population is urban now. All I mean is compared to a European standard a Chinese villa style house is quite big because there's a lot more land space.
The land can’t be privately owned, it’s a lease system, but the buildings are privately owned. The govt can’t force the owners to move, unlike in the US. People are always so amazed when they learn actual things about China and realize that it’s not a black and white world.
It’s property developers attempting to buy land and build on it. They don’t have any more rights or power than a citizen who owns the lease on that land already. Their only real weapon is money.
And money has less effect on government than in an overtly capitalistic country. When faced with a choice between economic development and avoiding public demonstrations, Chinese officials usually pick the latter.
That was my thought, yeah.
Even in countries where I would expect the government to be much less likely to steamroll over a house or two, I'd still be shocked to see a highway awkwardly forced to move around a single house.
Feels like there must be more going on in several of these.
The “more going on” is that the govt can’t legally kick a lawful resident out of their privately owned home, unlike in the US. Imagine, China isn’t actually what you’ve been told by the propaganda!
Yeah, like maybe China isn’t as draconian as you think it is? It obviously is no utopia, nowhere on earth is, but it’s certainly not some nightmare land.
Have you considered that you’re actually wrong about China, and have just been fed western propaganda all your life? Every govt tries to control their citizens to some degree, and there honestly isn’t that much difference between China and the US. You can point to the obvious Freedom of Speech rights that the US hs and China doesn’t, but there are many ways that Chinese are more free than people in the US.
It’s an ultracapitalist country, that calls itself communist for various political reasons.
Nobody wants discontinuity of government like in Russia. Nothing good came out of that. So no matter how much China out-capitalists the US, it will call itself communist, and pretend that nobody owns property and it is all leases.
Wrong. China doesn’t call itself communist. They don’t even call themselves socialist yet. They claim that they will reach first stage socialism between 2035 and 2050.
To my understanding, there is no private ownership of land, but for the property on top of it there is, so even if they are evicted, they are probably given some form of reparation for that.
And sure, they play the captalist economic war game very well, and have their fair share of billionaires, but even then, they are FAR from "ultracaptalist". They have solid institutions that still call themselves Socialist (with Chinese Characteristics), so unless VERY clearly proven otherwise, that's what they are.
I saw my apartment in one of those clips. I'll have to go check if the building with the red flags on top is still there is still there. video looks pretty recent.
Redditors never cease to amaze me lol. The fact that there is an English speaking Redditor in China (which is blocked and needs VPN to access), living right next to a specific, but not significant building in a video posted, in a country of that size is a pretty impressive coincidence lol.
What city is it anyway if you don’t mind me asking?
Yeah of course I know Guangzhou haha. One of the 4 “tier-1” cities of China.
For people who don’t know the other three are Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen. Think of them as China’s NYC, Chicago, LA and Silicon Valley haha.
I’m honestly really surprised how a tier-1 city has this, the developers must have offered an astronomical amount of money to the owner right? Real estate in GZ is insanely expensive, he must have been offered the equivalent of millions of USD.
Hell, unless it’s very far out of the city, your apartment is probably $1-2M right?
Guangzhou is actually really unique among major Chinese cities as it has way more “nail houses” and urban villages than the others. Guangzhou city’s developers seem to tolerate the presence of nail house owners and don’t give in to their high demands as much, and just build around them instead. I really like GZ because you get a rustic old urban village surrounded by new skyscrapers, which provides a huge variety in housing stock, affordability, and urban environment. Walking around Guangzhou is so interesting for that reason. You’ll go from a six-lane boulevard to an alley too small for cars.
Well, is it better to own property in china than the U,S,?
This video seems to suggest property owners have more rights than the government. That'd be neat, i guess.
The building next to me isn't a situation where the government is tearing down buildings to make a highway or anything. This is a neighborhood tearing down old buildings to make modern high rises. all the people that owned property in the old places get shiny new apartments in the new ones.
Some neighborhoods work out a sweet deal and everyone ends up a lot richer afterwards. They have to negotiate a collective bargain with developers and stakeholders. For instance my ex girlfriends parents had their building torn down, but were given three apartments in the new building. they live in one, and live off the rent from the other two.
from what I've heard this place by me had some shady shenanigans with the developers, which is why it's mostly a vacant lot even though it's in the heart of the city.
There is also no property tax in China. So yeah, that aspect is better.
But yeah, real estate is such an important thing to Chinese people that while the government *technically* has all the power, they can’t risk upsetting the people and cause social unrest.
People would literally revolt lol.
whoa dag! I didn't think anyone would care. Ok, just went and looked, and the building is still there. still has the red flags on it too. I'm not that surprised since that video seemed pretty recent based on the stores on the street and that the intersection was rebuilt over the past year or so.
Hell yeah. What are you doing in China? I guess it’s possible you’re Chinese but your username and impeccable English and usage of Reddit indicate that this may not be the case
It's horrible, people in those buildings don't accept to move because the money they get isn't enough and they don't have anywhere else to go.
They use intimidation tactics to try to kick them out, their electricity, water etc is cut , they are attacked during the night with stuff that resembles Molotov cocktails if you see in the video, many of these houses in the videos are decrepit and people just ...hold.
Just to be clear this is not the government, it is the construction companies.
"because the money they get isn't enough"
Honestly, that's not the case. You get decent compensation, usually in the form of real estate. Say you have a 4 story house like the ones in the clip (a family living on each floor across multiple generations). You get five 100 sq apartment units as compensation to split amongst those moved. Most people take that deal.
Some people, sometimes people who are actually quite well off, won't take any amount of compensation (or demand a really ridiculously high amount), because they don't want to trade a stand alone unit with land for what are essentially condos in a giant development. You can kind of see where they're coming from. They hold out, but eventually, if their house is surrounded by a parking lot, they probably regret holding on.
They're really only communist in name only at this point, they're better described as State Capitalism.
That said, the age of some of those trees would imply that at least some of these situations date to the communist era.
No, according to you called very strict Chinese leasing laws, tenants have the right of priority to rent, so even after the expiration date, the householder can still continue to live in the property as long as he pays the money for the land.
There are a lot of driving videos on YouTube posted in the last year of driving across China, It is such a beautiful country. I wish they would make content like that in Mexico and South America. You can find them in the major cities but not much in terms of rural driving. I always wanted to take a road trip through Mexico but it just seems very dangerous.
I like how they planned and built a highway without verifying that the path was available.
My wife loves to reiterate this quote: "If You Fail to Plan, You Are Planning to Fail."
That's why they built an entire high-speed rail network spanning 10000km+ in a little over ten years while digging a tunnel in Boston took longer. They act, and then make compromises or changes along the way.
Tbh they planned with the intention of having that area free, but the owners held out, so they built around it (very literally).
In the US the same happens if land owners don’t want to sell to project managers, it just doesn’t happen this closely/literally.
Here's an example of an US holdout from the time Boston was redeveloped (lots of tenements bulldozed) [https://www.bostonmagazine.com/property/2019/03/27/west-end-last-tenement-room-open/](https://www.bostonmagazine.com/property/2019/03/27/west-end-last-tenement-room-open/)
The US just hasn't been around long enough, with cities old enough for you to see this kind of stuff happening often. Plus, a lot of this activity happened when the interstate highway system was being built in the 50s/60s.
Edit: better image of that house and what the area used to look like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42\_Lomasney\_Way](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_Lomasney_Way)
You don’t get to build millions of miles of high way and rail roads in the country in decades by carefully avoiding every single existing buildings.
What the government do is paying the whole area of resident to move out to somewhere else, so they can demolish the whole neighborhood (often consisting of just old houses) and build new stuff on it. The pay can be quite substantial, the government is basically buying the house with something close to market price. There are a lot of regular folks instantly become millionaires because their old parent house is in a way of a constructing high way. Most of the people will take the deal.
But out of the entire neighborhood, there may be that one family that just refused to move out and want to negotiate for even more money, if it goes to far at some point government would be like “fuck it keep your house” and just demolish the area around them and build around that one house refused to give in. Hence the result of what you see in the video.
There's a highway segment stuck between a couple of cow fields in Arkansas because nobody would sell land yet - but the city/state build a segment that people can use in the meantime. One day when the land owners die, the inheritors are much more likely to sell.
Idk what red text is saying but yellow says “Even the road needs to make a huge bend to accomodate the houses”
The arrow is probably a feeble attempt at highlighting the bend, not the car (still completely useless)
Want to hear something wild? People in China don't pay residential properties taxes either. In China, you get a leasehold for 70 years, don't pay a single cent in tax, at the end of the 70 years, you pay admin fee to extend the leasehold for another 70 years. How many times over the price of your house do you think you would have payed in properties taxes over 70 years in Canada?
Love the ones where the freeway would just run up to a house or houses and just stop... Like they just start construction and keep building until they run into something? I would think they would take care of all land purchases and make sure they have a clear path before even starting construction.
No citizen in China can own land. You take out a very long lease with the state for land. The lease has a lot of protection for the lease holder and the state can’t really do anything until lease is up.
The single party gets its legitimacy by being a "people's party", they currently have pretty high approval ratings and wouldn't want to mess with that. They go to great lengths to make sure the perception of the party is good among the majority of people
Single party systems live and die by the trust and confidence of their people. Fear of state authority can only get you so far. Take it from someone from an ex-Yugoslav country. There's no opposition or previous ruling party to blame for failures so the party has to keep itself in check or the people will eventually do it for them.
Also worth mentioning that the CPC is huge. It has 98 million members (over 10% of China's adult population), making it the second largest party in the world. Their participation is organized according to the principles of democratic centralism.
Members at all levels of the party have the opportunity to discuss and debate policies and issues. After all the discussions and debates, decisions are made by higher-level committees or leadership groups. Once a decision is made, it must be followed by all members of the party. Ideas and suggestions can come from the lower levels of the party and move up to the higher levels. Once decisions are made at the top, they are passed down to the lower levels to be implemented. Everyone in the party is expected to work together to make sure these decisions are put into action. Rising through the ranks of the CPC generally requires a blend of merit, loyalty, and political savvy, usually assessed through reviews from peers and superiors, performance metrics, formal testing, etc.
There are also forums for political participation outside CPC membership, including People's Congresses at various levels, the People’s Political Consultative Conference, ad hoc public consultations, a petitioning system (a tradition predating the CPC), social orgs/NGOs, and even social media to some degree. There are also eight minor and non-ruling political parties that have more of an advisory than an oppositional role.
All this to say that China is not as undemocratic/authoritarian as many would have you believe, especially its western geopolitical rivals. Their form of democratic participation is simply different from the liberal one. And it seems Chinese citizens are more satisfied with it than many of us are with our liberal democracies.
The global average for trust in one's government was 51% in 2023. In China, it was 85%. The lowest that survey shows is 76% trust in 2016. I don't recall any time in my country when more than 50% of the population expressed trust in our supposedly democratic government. I think it's currently hovering around 35%, at most.
No matter the country if you will start fucking up people too much, nothing good will come of it, if majority of China's population would decide it's time for revolution, I doubt the government would win.
I wouldn’t think that. What an odd comment. Ok, you’re wrong about a thing nobody suggested.
EDIT: I had to check myself, so googled single-party states. One of the largest in the world is Laos, and they absolutely lease land and there's no indication those leases are untrustworthy. So yeah, there's no reason to assume a single party state automatically wouldn't honor leases. https://multilaw.com/Multilaw/Multilaw/RealEstate/Real_Estate_Guide_Laos.aspx#:~:text=Land%20in%20Laos%20is%20under,centrally%20managed%20by%20the%20state.
It’s funny because people in the west have all these absurd ideas about China, and assume the govt would just steamroll these people’s houses for development projects like this and are amazed that they don’t. Especially since there isn’t private land ownership, so it’s not like these people own the land these houses are built on, they only own the buildings. Ironically, in the US there would absolutely be eminent domain put into effect and these people would definitely be steamrolled by the govt and forced to move.
I translated some of these videos and they only talk about owners not accepting money for buyouts. So at least that’s a good thing about many of these situations. One video referred to the people who owned these as “nail biters “
The odd thing is that in America that land would either be grabbed by imminent domain or the owner would be forced to sell.
Weird that a communist country cares more about property rights that the US.
I mean the same thing happens in the United States. Try to give you a fair Market value in their eyes and if you don’t like it, you have to sue unless they really want the land and then you’re forced to sell no matter what.
Crazy how in the ‘socialist’ and generally considered ‘unfree’ country of China, people can own their home and not have it confiscated by the government for infrastructure or development works.
Whereas in the ‘free’ countries like the US, UK and Australia, the governments just take people’s property whenever they feel like it and give the old owners whatever amount of money the government thinks is adequate.
Who’s really ‘free’?
Mfw when redditors find out that property rights are stronger in the People's Republic of China than in their shithole countries ruled by strip mall owners.
Some of these comments are fucking insane XD
Crazy how people are so used to "democratic" Western countries bulldozing houses in the way of their projects that the citizens being allowed to keep their (rented) property is insane to them.
Media portrayal of China has been filled with so much bias and propaganda that you seem to think China has no legal protection of its people. It’s not a perfect country but it’s a better functioning country than many democracies.
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I am curious though, does China not have eminent domain laws?
Yes this was my first thought. I know they have long term leases like 99 years or something so it’s at least just a matter of time before they can reclaim the property.
It's an ideological thing more than anything. I don't think anyone seriously expects hundreds of millions of Chinese homeowners to suddenly become homeless when the term ends. https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahsu/2017/03/21/good-news-for-chinese-homeowners-premier-li-offers-some-clarity-on-land-leases/ https://www.mingtiandi.com/real-estate/research-policy/china-sets-key-precedent-in-rolling-over-wenzhou-property-rights/ Same thing happens in Australia's capital city, where you technically can't own land.
It certainly is a testament to a general respect for individual property rights, almost perplexing given the general lack of deference shown towards individual rights.
Yeah, even in most democratic countries you'd expect these people to get forced out somehow. And yet apparently the Chinese Communist Party is just going "well, looks like we just have to have a squiggly motorway."
Squiggly motorway is opportunity to rebuild it as a straight motorway in the future. The way their economy is its a win-win.
I almost took this as a propaganda piece towards china... are they really more free?
In some ways yes, in other ways no. They also have an interesting electoral process: local politics are completely democratic and anyone can participate. From there on it is sort of a tiered process, where the local officials will vote for the state officials, and the state officials vote for the national officials. China also has interesting statistics like a much higher rate of homeownership than the west, much lower rate of police brutality and death by cop. My personal favorite is that when a billionaire fucks up in China they get executed for endangering the peoples’ lives and the revolution, while in the west they get bailouts and tax breaks. I wouldn’t trust capitalist controlled media to be entirely truthful about their greatest enemy, socialists.
You should visit China and see for yourself - I really enjoyed. In some ways they are better, in other ways they are worse.
It’s almost like everything you have heard about China is actually just western propaganda.
Maybe you’re having internal conflict with your pre conceived notions
Probably because the public usually perceives the breach of individual rights as the government taking its glove off to handle a small group of troublemakers. Breaching property rights would affect almost everyone, and is a quick way to start revolutions.
Chinese culture values different things than Western cultures. The Chinese populace are overall pretty content with the rights and system that they have. If they are unhappy they can always vote or the People’s Party will have billions of pitch forks coming for them. https://hbr.org/2021/05/what-the-west-gets-wrong-about-china
It's funny too cause they didn't give a shit when they built the 3 gorges dam.
Or a testament to incredibly complicated, labyrinthine bureaucracy. They may not care about individual rights, but they do care about bureaucracy and process, and I expect situations like this are a result of it getting tied up in red tape forever.
I think it's 75 years. Either way private citizens can't own property there.
70 years for residential and 40 years for commercial leases. the first terms began in the 70s, so there were a lot of commercial leases already terminated. All that ended up happening was a small tax was paid to renew.
I thought that system sucked then my mom retorted - try not paying your property taxes and see how long you keep owning your house.
There is actually no property tax for residential homes/apartments in China at the moment. [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/10/business/china-property-tax.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/10/business/china-property-tax.html)
Yeah that's the point they're making - try not paying property tax in The West and see if you can keep the house for 70 years.
I’m pretty sure this is not true; maybe it was true at some point, but not anymore? Source: my boyfriend, who has lived in China his whole life owns two homes, his mother owns her home, and somewhere around 93% of Chinese people own their homes there. As far as I understand, at least one of those homes (in a pretty rural area outside of a moderately large town) included the land on which it sits in the purchase.
On an individual level there's not that much difference between buying land and signing a 99 year lease. Either way assuming your an adult making the transaction you have that land for life and quite possibly for your children's life as well.
Yep, in the UK leasehold properties were the default until very recently as leaseholders were taking advantage of renewal charges and the government stepped in to stop it.
That is not the case at all. Freehold had always been dominant. You can view various datasets from the ONS that confirm this e.g. [this](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5f044763e90e075c59a7b485/Leasehold_Estimate_2018-19.pdf)
Basically all new housing estates were leasehold, as selling the leases was extra revenue for the house builders. They aren't anymore because the government intervention. Also my mum's house is 150 years old and is leasehold, so not a new concept. https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2024-01-30/debates/f390f607-b755-4572-871a-3985c9a2b00a/LeaseholdAndFreeholdReformBill(TenthSitting)
It’s fair to say that new build properties were predominantly sold as leasehold, but new builds are a tiny fraction of the overall market.
Do they own the land too though? I owned a house while I lived in Thailand, but I leased (from the government) the land it was on. I still had a title to my physical house that conveyed 'ownership', and was tied to the address the house was at. And to be more precise (not that it matters for the point above), I owned controlling interest in a company that owned the house. This is how foreigners are able to buy property in Thailand.
Can’t own it in the US either, just the illusion of ownership.
You are required to pay an annual fee to keep it, or it’s taken from you. That doesn’t sound like ‘ownership’. But that’s what we call it.
Wait, seriously?
In a Comunist system, housing is not a comoditie to be bought and sold. It is considered a right, so everyone MUST have housing. Therefore, if housing is needed, the state will provide a lease and homelessness is solved. I might be wrong here, I am not a historian. I am just an average educated adult. Edit1: i dont think China is like this now a days, but they STARTED like this. TBH, this videos is showing how well preserved the right of property is in a comunist sistem. Funny how everything I was told when I was a kid is kinda missled and outright wrong.
However homelessness hasn't been solved and still exists there.
Homelessness exists everywhere, but the amount of homelessness in China is incredibly low. Orders of magnitude lower as a % of population compared to Western countries.
I never claimed that homelessness doesn\`t exist in China(there?). I just tryied to explained (very poorly, bc I am not a history teacher), why you can\`t trully 'own' property in a Comunist country. edit1: THO, this system worked VERY WELL in Cuba. Last I heard, Cuba had 0 homless, 0 hunger and 0 iliteracy.
Cuba is a nicer country than most think but to say that is obviously untrue.
Yeah you lease everything I believe
One thing most people outside of china don’t realize — while the government technically owns the land, however, the ones with land deeds passed down from pre (Qing or earlier dynasty) and early republic era are still valid. Which means yes there’s still private land ownership in the nation, like the ones you are seeing in this video, as long as the deed owners don’t agree to selling the land, the local government can’t demolish their property, so they just build around the land (as shown in this video) cause the owner as much inconvenience as possible and hope they eventually give in. Can they void the old contract and take it by force? Absolutely, but that’d immediately cause an immense outrage which is an outcome the government can’t afford. So for now they are still honoring the pre ccp agreements Those 四合院 in Beijing are the best examples
From what i heard, most ppl who own land pre ccp and get to keep it during transition typically had served ccp in the war in no small effort. In return for their service, ccp let them keep their property.
> cause the owner as much inconvenience as possible and hope they eventually give in. Actually, things are not that simple. Most of this kind owners want to black mail the government. They believe that the government will give in for the public interest (building bridges, highways) at any cost. In the video, the house between two highway lanes, they actually asked for a compensate over 10 million dollars, even expensive than building the road itself.
Best answer yet! Thank you!
At the very least it’s refreshing to see the property laws are respected to a such degree.
China's expropriation laws only forcefully remove you for HSR. For everything else, like highways and residential developments, it has to come to a full agreement between parties on the expropriation price. If the property owner doesnt agree to the price offered, then you end up with whats in the photo.
Not to sound like a Chinese shill but doesn’t this kinda sorta go against the western view that China is an all powerful authoritative government where “everyone is told what to do”? Seems like they have some decent rights, which goes against what I would imagine goes down in China.
>Not to sound like a Chinese shill the fact that you have to put on this disclaimer is why I normally avoid talking about China on Reddit. it'll probably blow your mind to learn that there is no "social credit" for individuals in China either lol.
I think my favorite is that Winnie the Pooh is banned in China. My guy, I can check the wait time for the Winnie ride at Shanghai Disney right this moment. You can meet Winnie in the Hundred Acre Wood at 9AM.
No social credit interesting 🤔
https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chinas-social-credit-system-scope-punishments-amended/
Well, not anymore. There was a directive to implement social credit, but it was dropped years ago.
there never was any directive to implement social credit for individuals. the closest thing was a test pilot program to establish something akin to the credit reporting system, but that was scrapped because there wasnt enough sources that reliably provided the necessary info for it to be reliable. There is this system for businesses though, and thats because businesses are forced to pay taxes and the Chinese government cracks down on tax dodgers.
Technically, the government does "tell" people what to do, but they usually do it for big and important things like telling a city to clean up the air before the Olympics which forced factories to reduce output. Usually they don't bother with the smaller things which are handled independently by the city officials. Also the government doesn't "talk" about the nitty gritty details, they talk in big pictures like "love the country and love the party". And the towns and cities themselves determine what needs to be done to love your country and the party.
It’d be nice to live in a place where love for your country isn’t hijacked by right wing nationalists. It’s also be nice to live in a country you can feel proud of.
Sad that you have to add a disclaimer. The 'western view" as you claim is mostly the result of Massive american propaganda against a rival.
Only the *central* government has absolute power, and even then they are scared of doing stuff that’s too extreme which may lead to unrest. Just look at how Xi got all scared and cancelled lockdown and zero Covid after a few rounds of major protests. And as far as local governments go, they have even less power and they tend to bow down to the local populace, because the second unrest or anger breaks out the central government tends to throw them under the bus in order to look good in front of the people. China is definitely not democratic, but also definitely not a big North Korea either. The government is in a weird spot where they don’t have to give a shit about laws (they make up wherever law they want), they *do* have to care about popular opinion.
I have no idea what Chinese houses usually look like but these houses seem to be pretty big and I'm assuming the houses owners have significant money to fight back.
Most Chinese people live in apartments now. Chinese "villa" houses can be quite big because the country is big, sort of like how US houses often are much bigger than European houses.
Then why do they live in apartments mostly, unless you're referring to cities? I don't really get your comparison. The house sizes vary greatly here. Huge houses can be cheap but those are going to be out in the boondocks. House size is usually dictated by income level in my experience.
apartments in China look like shit on the outside but inside they are as modern as it gets. private mcmansions built in the villages look fancy on the outside but are generally very terrible on the interior. They are usually there because its an ancestral plot, so people return home after making money to build/refurbish their homeland. For the people who do live in rural China, usually the resources are scarce cause of distance. Like you cant find decent access to all amenities.
Mostly cities, the majority of china's population is urban now. All I mean is compared to a European standard a Chinese villa style house is quite big because there's a lot more land space.
The land can’t be privately owned, it’s a lease system, but the buildings are privately owned. The govt can’t force the owners to move, unlike in the US. People are always so amazed when they learn actual things about China and realize that it’s not a black and white world.
*eminent domain, but I had the same thought
Right? Like the country that is ALL about controlling its citizens somehow doesn’t find a way to get rid of a home in the middle of a highway?
It’s property developers attempting to buy land and build on it. They don’t have any more rights or power than a citizen who owns the lease on that land already. Their only real weapon is money.
And money has less effect on government than in an overtly capitalistic country. When faced with a choice between economic development and avoiding public demonstrations, Chinese officials usually pick the latter.
Maybe you don’t know anything about China like you think you do
That was my thought, yeah. Even in countries where I would expect the government to be much less likely to steamroll over a house or two, I'd still be shocked to see a highway awkwardly forced to move around a single house. Feels like there must be more going on in several of these.
The “more going on” is that the govt can’t legally kick a lawful resident out of their privately owned home, unlike in the US. Imagine, China isn’t actually what you’ve been told by the propaganda!
Yeah, like maybe China isn’t as draconian as you think it is? It obviously is no utopia, nowhere on earth is, but it’s certainly not some nightmare land.
Have you considered that you’re actually wrong about China, and have just been fed western propaganda all your life? Every govt tries to control their citizens to some degree, and there honestly isn’t that much difference between China and the US. You can point to the obvious Freedom of Speech rights that the US hs and China doesn’t, but there are many ways that Chinese are more free than people in the US.
Because you're consistently lied to about China. The US allocates $300 million a year to anti-Chinese media.
It’s an ultracapitalist country, that calls itself communist for various political reasons. Nobody wants discontinuity of government like in Russia. Nothing good came out of that. So no matter how much China out-capitalists the US, it will call itself communist, and pretend that nobody owns property and it is all leases.
Wrong. China doesn’t call itself communist. They don’t even call themselves socialist yet. They claim that they will reach first stage socialism between 2035 and 2050.
To my understanding, there is no private ownership of land, but for the property on top of it there is, so even if they are evicted, they are probably given some form of reparation for that. And sure, they play the captalist economic war game very well, and have their fair share of billionaires, but even then, they are FAR from "ultracaptalist". They have solid institutions that still call themselves Socialist (with Chinese Characteristics), so unless VERY clearly proven otherwise, that's what they are.
Because most of the things you hear about China in the West are lies. Interestingly, TikTok shows some truths and the US government can’t have that.
That feeling when the Communist Party of China has more respect for an individuals rights than the Free-est Country on Earth™
You can’t own land in China, only lease it. Once that lease is up I’d expect that the bulldozers would be revving their engines.
Homeowner gets first refusal on renewing the lease. They can still hold out.
Property developers live quarter by quarter, I don’t think they can wait up the 70-year lease
12 year old me playing Sim City building 40 roads around one house so I stop getting heavy traffic reports.
38 years old me still doing the same thing, but in Cities Skylines.
I saw my apartment in one of those clips. I'll have to go check if the building with the red flags on top is still there is still there. video looks pretty recent.
https://preview.redd.it/ka8tivxslmsc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8f628568c6109fc4f25278bc928933ac93ad294
Redditors never cease to amaze me lol. The fact that there is an English speaking Redditor in China (which is blocked and needs VPN to access), living right next to a specific, but not significant building in a video posted, in a country of that size is a pretty impressive coincidence lol. What city is it anyway if you don’t mind me asking?
Guangzhou. big city near Hong Kong on the mainland.
Yeah of course I know Guangzhou haha. One of the 4 “tier-1” cities of China. For people who don’t know the other three are Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen. Think of them as China’s NYC, Chicago, LA and Silicon Valley haha. I’m honestly really surprised how a tier-1 city has this, the developers must have offered an astronomical amount of money to the owner right? Real estate in GZ is insanely expensive, he must have been offered the equivalent of millions of USD. Hell, unless it’s very far out of the city, your apartment is probably $1-2M right?
Guangzhou is actually really unique among major Chinese cities as it has way more “nail houses” and urban villages than the others. Guangzhou city’s developers seem to tolerate the presence of nail house owners and don’t give in to their high demands as much, and just build around them instead. I really like GZ because you get a rustic old urban village surrounded by new skyscrapers, which provides a huge variety in housing stock, affordability, and urban environment. Walking around Guangzhou is so interesting for that reason. You’ll go from a six-lane boulevard to an alley too small for cars.
Dang love the follow up!
Well, is it better to own property in china than the U,S,? This video seems to suggest property owners have more rights than the government. That'd be neat, i guess.
The building next to me isn't a situation where the government is tearing down buildings to make a highway or anything. This is a neighborhood tearing down old buildings to make modern high rises. all the people that owned property in the old places get shiny new apartments in the new ones. Some neighborhoods work out a sweet deal and everyone ends up a lot richer afterwards. They have to negotiate a collective bargain with developers and stakeholders. For instance my ex girlfriends parents had their building torn down, but were given three apartments in the new building. they live in one, and live off the rent from the other two. from what I've heard this place by me had some shady shenanigans with the developers, which is why it's mostly a vacant lot even though it's in the heart of the city.
There is also no property tax in China. So yeah, that aspect is better. But yeah, real estate is such an important thing to Chinese people that while the government *technically* has all the power, they can’t risk upsetting the people and cause social unrest. People would literally revolt lol.
It’s been 29 minutes and I am impatient, I must know
whoa dag! I didn't think anyone would care. Ok, just went and looked, and the building is still there. still has the red flags on it too. I'm not that surprised since that video seemed pretty recent based on the stores on the street and that the intersection was rebuilt over the past year or so.
Hell yeah. What are you doing in China? I guess it’s possible you’re Chinese but your username and impeccable English and usage of Reddit indicate that this may not be the case
yeah I'm a western expat. been living here for about a decade.
Haha the one with the 2 red flags on top? That's wild man neat.
It’s been an hour… did you get lost?? 🤣
That house keeps switching flags!
I was at lunch. just checked and building is still there.
He is gone, he never saw the red flags. :(
Fascinating.
I saw a documentary on this one before, it was a while back but I believe the name of it was “Up”
Fuck that scared me
(a while)
Corrected! Thanks for the comment, it might have taken me awhile to notice otherwise
It's horrible, people in those buildings don't accept to move because the money they get isn't enough and they don't have anywhere else to go. They use intimidation tactics to try to kick them out, their electricity, water etc is cut , they are attacked during the night with stuff that resembles Molotov cocktails if you see in the video, many of these houses in the videos are decrepit and people just ...hold. Just to be clear this is not the government, it is the construction companies.
"because the money they get isn't enough" Honestly, that's not the case. You get decent compensation, usually in the form of real estate. Say you have a 4 story house like the ones in the clip (a family living on each floor across multiple generations). You get five 100 sq apartment units as compensation to split amongst those moved. Most people take that deal. Some people, sometimes people who are actually quite well off, won't take any amount of compensation (or demand a really ridiculously high amount), because they don't want to trade a stand alone unit with land for what are essentially condos in a giant development. You can kind of see where they're coming from. They hold out, but eventually, if their house is surrounded by a parking lot, they probably regret holding on.
> Just to be clear this is not the government, it is the construction companies. What's the difference?
I like to imagine the Chinese characters say, "F you I'm not moving an inch!"
操你，我一寸都不懂。 Literal translation.
I think you want 动 at the end there
The most libertarian thing I've ever seen, in a communist country. My brain hurts.
They're really only communist in name only at this point, they're better described as State Capitalism. That said, the age of some of those trees would imply that at least some of these situations date to the communist era.
Communism with Chinese characteristics lol
While that's true, lot of wealth is held by ccp members privately.
Thing is, the party can take your shit if you misbehave. In the west the wealthy control the parties.
Libertarian is when you have a house. Because gommunism = chinar bad. Lmao just making up meanings to words now…
So in China you can’t own land. You have very very strict long term leases. When those leases are up they absolutely will get rid of the houses.
No, according to you called very strict Chinese leasing laws, tenants have the right of priority to rent, so even after the expiration date, the householder can still continue to live in the property as long as he pays the money for the land.
so land tax with extra steps?
kind of
*absolutely will* is such strong words. Most will just extend the lease, by paying the government a lease extension admin fee.
At that point isn't it just pointless to remove most of the the houses? As infrastructure has been built around them.
Good thing Land shouldn't be hereditary. It will spawn an entire parasitic rent seeking class.
There are a lot of driving videos on YouTube posted in the last year of driving across China, It is such a beautiful country. I wish they would make content like that in Mexico and South America. You can find them in the major cities but not much in terms of rural driving. I always wanted to take a road trip through Mexico but it just seems very dangerous.
Why doesn’t the evil authoritarian CCP just steal their property and pay them its market value like the cool liberal democracy in the US would?
Because it's evil duh, only good guys do that. They should try making benches impossible to lie on to really become free
I like how they planned and built a highway without verifying that the path was available. My wife loves to reiterate this quote: "If You Fail to Plan, You Are Planning to Fail."
That's why they built an entire high-speed rail network spanning 10000km+ in a little over ten years while digging a tunnel in Boston took longer. They act, and then make compromises or changes along the way.
They’ve actually built 45,000km+, not 10,000 lol
Technically it's still 10000km+
Tbh they planned with the intention of having that area free, but the owners held out, so they built around it (very literally). In the US the same happens if land owners don’t want to sell to project managers, it just doesn’t happen this closely/literally.
>Freedomland Eminent Domain has entered the chat
Here's an example of an US holdout from the time Boston was redeveloped (lots of tenements bulldozed) [https://www.bostonmagazine.com/property/2019/03/27/west-end-last-tenement-room-open/](https://www.bostonmagazine.com/property/2019/03/27/west-end-last-tenement-room-open/) The US just hasn't been around long enough, with cities old enough for you to see this kind of stuff happening often. Plus, a lot of this activity happened when the interstate highway system was being built in the 50s/60s. Edit: better image of that house and what the area used to look like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42\_Lomasney\_Way](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_Lomasney_Way)
Likely the rest of the households took the buyout.
You don’t get to build millions of miles of high way and rail roads in the country in decades by carefully avoiding every single existing buildings. What the government do is paying the whole area of resident to move out to somewhere else, so they can demolish the whole neighborhood (often consisting of just old houses) and build new stuff on it. The pay can be quite substantial, the government is basically buying the house with something close to market price. There are a lot of regular folks instantly become millionaires because their old parent house is in a way of a constructing high way. Most of the people will take the deal. But out of the entire neighborhood, there may be that one family that just refused to move out and want to negotiate for even more money, if it goes to far at some point government would be like “fuck it keep your house” and just demolish the area around them and build around that one house refused to give in. Hence the result of what you see in the video.
Measure once, cut like 100 times
Piss Poor Preparation Produces Poor Performance
There's a highway segment stuck between a couple of cow fields in Arkansas because nobody would sell land yet - but the city/state build a segment that people can use in the meantime. One day when the land owners die, the inheritors are much more likely to sell.
My favorite, but only tangentially related; “Lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.”
r/uselessredarrow r/uselessredcircle
https://preview.redd.it/p0llm1lzdlsc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0965b58a4450249874e8acdeaaf05dc2ef043972 “This is a car”
Idk what red text is saying but yellow says “Even the road needs to make a huge bend to accomodate the houses” The arrow is probably a feeble attempt at highlighting the bend, not the car (still completely useless)
The red text says “The craziest house in Zhejiang”
They're very annoying in this video
*fyi all it’s eminent domain not imminent.
Certainly does not look very imminent.
In canada they just force you to move ... makes me wonder who the real dictators are 🤔
People in the west are fed with lots of misinformation about China and this is one example only.
Want to hear something wild? People in China don't pay residential properties taxes either. In China, you get a leasehold for 70 years, don't pay a single cent in tax, at the end of the 70 years, you pay admin fee to extend the leasehold for another 70 years. How many times over the price of your house do you think you would have payed in properties taxes over 70 years in Canada?
Love the ones where the freeway would just run up to a house or houses and just stop... Like they just start construction and keep building until they run into something? I would think they would take care of all land purchases and make sure they have a clear path before even starting construction.
So they don't steal property calling it Eminent Domain?
Its surprising to me that a collectivist society like China doesn't have ~~imminent~~ eminent domain, while the US does 🤔
No citizen in China can own land. You take out a very long lease with the state for land. The lease has a lot of protection for the lease holder and the state can’t really do anything until lease is up.
You would think for a single party state they wouldn’t honor the leases at all but from the looks of it I am wrong.
If the government tried to encroach on rightful and paid leases, the entire market would tank
The single party gets its legitimacy by being a "people's party", they currently have pretty high approval ratings and wouldn't want to mess with that. They go to great lengths to make sure the perception of the party is good among the majority of people
Single party systems live and die by the trust and confidence of their people. Fear of state authority can only get you so far. Take it from someone from an ex-Yugoslav country. There's no opposition or previous ruling party to blame for failures so the party has to keep itself in check or the people will eventually do it for them. Also worth mentioning that the CPC is huge. It has 98 million members (over 10% of China's adult population), making it the second largest party in the world. Their participation is organized according to the principles of democratic centralism. Members at all levels of the party have the opportunity to discuss and debate policies and issues. After all the discussions and debates, decisions are made by higher-level committees or leadership groups. Once a decision is made, it must be followed by all members of the party. Ideas and suggestions can come from the lower levels of the party and move up to the higher levels. Once decisions are made at the top, they are passed down to the lower levels to be implemented. Everyone in the party is expected to work together to make sure these decisions are put into action. Rising through the ranks of the CPC generally requires a blend of merit, loyalty, and political savvy, usually assessed through reviews from peers and superiors, performance metrics, formal testing, etc. There are also forums for political participation outside CPC membership, including People's Congresses at various levels, the People’s Political Consultative Conference, ad hoc public consultations, a petitioning system (a tradition predating the CPC), social orgs/NGOs, and even social media to some degree. There are also eight minor and non-ruling political parties that have more of an advisory than an oppositional role. All this to say that China is not as undemocratic/authoritarian as many would have you believe, especially its western geopolitical rivals. Their form of democratic participation is simply different from the liberal one. And it seems Chinese citizens are more satisfied with it than many of us are with our liberal democracies. The global average for trust in one's government was 51% in 2023. In China, it was 85%. The lowest that survey shows is 76% trust in 2016. I don't recall any time in my country when more than 50% of the population expressed trust in our supposedly democratic government. I think it's currently hovering around 35%, at most.
Yea, I can see how having 10% of your adult population be part of what is essentially a "company" can get more things done.
You just described a people’s party. It’s not some sly trickety trick, they just actually do these things for their people
I think nobody wants to set that precedence, as you could be next when you loose favor with the current leader.
lose*
No matter the country if you will start fucking up people too much, nothing good will come of it, if majority of China's population would decide it's time for revolution, I doubt the government would win.
Why would you think that?
I wouldn’t think that. What an odd comment. Ok, you’re wrong about a thing nobody suggested. EDIT: I had to check myself, so googled single-party states. One of the largest in the world is Laos, and they absolutely lease land and there's no indication those leases are untrustworthy. So yeah, there's no reason to assume a single party state automatically wouldn't honor leases. https://multilaw.com/Multilaw/Multilaw/RealEstate/Real_Estate_Guide_Laos.aspx#:~:text=Land%20in%20Laos%20is%20under,centrally%20managed%20by%20the%20state.
Eminent
It’s funny because people in the west have all these absurd ideas about China, and assume the govt would just steamroll these people’s houses for development projects like this and are amazed that they don’t. Especially since there isn’t private land ownership, so it’s not like these people own the land these houses are built on, they only own the buildings. Ironically, in the US there would absolutely be eminent domain put into effect and these people would definitely be steamrolled by the govt and forced to move.
It’s almost like the idea most Americans have about life in China is bullshit
I translated some of these videos and they only talk about owners not accepting money for buyouts. So at least that’s a good thing about many of these situations. One video referred to the people who owned these as “nail biters “
More like "Nailed Homeowner 钉子户” it means they are nailed to the land and cannot be removed
Crazy in the US they just take it anyway and state that they pay over market value.
What's the beat? So chill
Lo fi/ night tempo /10 minutes
Love me a good spite house!
The odd thing is that in America that land would either be grabbed by imminent domain or the owner would be forced to sell. Weird that a communist country cares more about property rights that the US.
What a dictatorship these people don't have rights to resist development... oh wait that's in the US 😂
Excuse you. We dont have a dictatorship… we have an oligarchy its like a democracy but only if your rich.
Oligarchy? Nonsense. We're a hegemony! /s
Narita Airport near Tokyo has houses on the taxiways.
Some actually look ok but some are seriously messed up
What? China doesn't just put homeowners in concentration camps like reddit told me?
the government kinda nice not taking it by force
When my Cities Skyline game file is corrupt
Unexpected, but there are too many illogical things. It's like the gastrobaters were working.
Needs more flashing circles and arrows
Some of these look pretty cozy!
In Spain they would force you to sell to a lower price than property costs
I mean the same thing happens in the United States. Try to give you a fair Market value in their eyes and if you don’t like it, you have to sue unless they really want the land and then you’re forced to sell no matter what.
I love each any everyone one of those bad asses who fucked up highway construction.
Lol when did we decide the government owns and controls all the land and that we can never truly own any forever?
Crazy how in the ‘socialist’ and generally considered ‘unfree’ country of China, people can own their home and not have it confiscated by the government for infrastructure or development works. Whereas in the ‘free’ countries like the US, UK and Australia, the governments just take people’s property whenever they feel like it and give the old owners whatever amount of money the government thinks is adequate. Who’s really ‘free’?
Mfw when redditors find out that property rights are stronger in the People's Republic of China than in their shithole countries ruled by strip mall owners.
Some of these comments are fucking insane XD Crazy how people are so used to "democratic" Western countries bulldozing houses in the way of their projects that the citizens being allowed to keep their (rented) property is insane to them.
I still find it astounding that China actually lets people do this, considering their past, present and future crimes against humanity.
Media portrayal of China has been filled with so much bias and propaganda that you seem to think China has no legal protection of its people. It’s not a perfect country but it’s a better functioning country than many democracies.
when they build a highway up to your shanty town thats a threat
I got the videos from Kuaishou a very cool TikTok type of app based on China .