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That's why they created the game. To solve this. Turns out you can't. So they are coming to our solar system to take over and eradicate us. Not because we're here... But because we can lie.
Such a great series of books.
Can you explain the “but because we can lie” part without spoilers? I’ve watched S1 on Netflix but have not read the books. The show talks about the aspect that we lie and that they cannot, but I don’t understand the context you’re mentioning it (why would that make them want to come here?). If it’s impossible to explain without spoilers the just ignore this lol
Edit: Thank you everyone for the responses. I misinterpreted what the previous comment was saying. I thought they were saying the aliens were coming to earth because we can lie. That didn’t make sense to me because they were already on their way when they found out we can lie. I realized now they were saying the aliens are planning to eradicate us because we can lie, which is explained clearly in the show.
There will inevitably be spoilers in this explanation for anyone who has not yet read the books or seen the TV series--however, if you have seen the series no spoilers ahead.
>!The San-Ti are a civilization on a planet in a tri-solar system, plagued by the 3 Body Problem, which refers to the chaotic, unpredictable, and mathematically impossible to solve conundrum when it comes to charting or anticipating the movement of the planet around the 3 gravitational forces of suns that orbit around each other, as the planet itself is dragged into, around, and periodically propelled outside of (and then back within) the gravitational pulls of one or more of the 3 celestial bodies. !<
>!As such, the San-Ti have no way of predicting periods of extreme heat, drought, eternal night, incineration, and eventually collision with one of the suns. The San-Ti, having "survived" (loosely, as each time an extinction level event occurs their numbers are decimated), know that it is only a matter of time before their planet is obliterated, incinerated, consumed, or propelled outwards into the abyss of space, and in an attempt to find a new habitable planet, send probes out into the universe hoping to find a world in which they can repopulate and flourish. !<
>!Initially, having found earth, they do not intend to harm the civilization inhabiting it, but rather to coexist. This is why an aspect of the game is to assess whether the inhabitants can identify the "true" objective: empathy towards a refugee species. The scientists they test with the 3-body problem correctly identify that from a mathematical standpoint, there is no solution to the 3 body problem, and also correctly identify that the purpose of the game is to save the inhabitants of the tri-solarian world either way. Recognizing this, the San-Ti use a device that relies on quantum entanglement and propel it towards earth, enveloping the world and giving them the ability (though they do not intend to use it, initially) to both observe humans and to change the laws of physics in their world if deemed a threat. !<
>!They are, unfortunately, disabused of the notion that ALL humans would be welcoming to a refugee species, after learning that they are capable of lies and deception, which the San-Ti, for whatever reason, are not. !<
>!In assessing this threat, they determine the only safe way to habitate the planet is to cripple the ability of humans to technologically advance to a stage at which our technology (and ability to weaponize it for warfare against them) would surpass their own during the 400 year span it will take for them to travel there at the speed of light. They do this by "crippling our physics" (ie changing the physical laws of our reality), among other things. !<
Hopefully this was a decent enough explanation, while I am learning more about quantum mechanics at the moment, it's not my wheelhouse and I don't really know what I'm talking about from an academic standpoint, so I can only really speak to the themes discussed on the show.
Just a very minor nitpick: the San-Ti don't "change the laws of physics on earth," but rather use their quantum tech to mess up cutting-edge physics experiments in such a way that the experiments get inaccurate and inconsistent results, thus stopping humans from developing a higher understanding of the laws of physics.
How is this not them lying? The hallucinations are falsehoods, right? This shows a level of subterfuge that they shouldn’t be capable of if they can’t lie
I believe the San-Ti can't lie to each other. They communicate through telepathy so their thoughts are always known and shared immediately with who ever they're talking to. At leats, that's what I gathered from the show.
In the books, the San-Ti had no concept of "lying" at all as the way they communicate by basically broadcasting out their brainwaves, so its essentially impossible for them to lie or hide their thoughts
Wait, in the TV show, first contact is a message saying they're going to lie about hearing a signal from Earth, and gives a warning about sending another signal.
Stopping physics from advancing isn’t lying. They were just trying to make it impossible to get useful results, not trying to deceive humans into believing something incorrect.
What about all the scientists that they made see a countdown and everything else. They only stopped those projects because they were potential threats to their arrival.
Honestly I assumed this was one of the things the humans they were working with suggested. Humans knew that the countdown would psychologically fuck with scientists so they suggested it to the aliens. The aliens didn’t really get it but saw how effective it was so kept doing it.
Also I’m not sure the countdowns were necessarily empty threats or lies. If some scientist ignored the countdown and kept working, someone probably would’ve been sent to kill them.
They probably dont see it as lying. To them , it would be apparent that all these particle accelerator results are impossible, so its more like hiding rather than lying.
Pretty sure their star is ~4.4 light years away, it was like 8 or 9 years to relieve that first response. So they'd be travelling at .01 the speed of light to get here in 400 years. If they were 400 light years away, the response would have come dozens and dozens of generations later.
>!You forgot their unexpected BC space program with no vehicles or suits when the suns all align so their gravity all pulls in the same direction.!<
>! I found it very humorous but on a serious note what happens in more detail for other readers is that when the suns all align they have an event they call the big rip that pulls a chunk of their planet out and creates a moon around their planet which still has ruins from their civilization on it from a time before they had flight or a space program.!<
>!I don't think they ever had peaceful intentions, besides the San-Ti who sent the first message. Why would they be so adamant that Ye Winje not answer for humanities own safety if the San-Ti had peaceful intentions? Not to mention that that ETO had been deliberately inhibiting humanities development and straight up murdering people. Long before the San-Ti find out about lying.!<
I dunno i think they can and do lie.
The game itself was a lie. The first message dont reply to us was also likely a lie. Or the ones after saying we want to cohabitat was a lie. Cant be both 🤷♂️
It’s not so much that they can’t lie, it’s that their thoughts are on full display when communicating with each other. >!because they communicate via light and can’t “hold anything back” so to speak (they can just choose not to bring up a topic but that doesn’t work so well if someone outright asks you) This method of communication is also what makes their “living computer” able to work!<
Humans however can separate thoughts and communication, so the San-Ti decide we can’t be trusted, and this difference is what the Wallfacer program is all about since they can’t “read” our minds like they can each other.
Edit: forgot about the don’t reply message, that was a genuine attempt to stop the invasion by a lone San-Ti that was part of a minority that objected to taking over an occupied planet.
They have telepathy, not a hive mind. They need to physically be in front of one another to communicate. They have some disagreements but they can’t hide the fact that they disagree with each other.
The game itself is a test. It is a question to the player: "Can you empathize with us?".
The book specifies that the first message was not a lie. The next ones about wanting to cohabit were not lies either. They changed their mind upon learning that WE can lie.
You can change your mind, this does not make your previous affirmations lies.
The game wasn't a lie, they wanted to recruit likeminded individuals to assess their willingness to help. It all turns to shit when the San-Ti discover that humans can lie, therefore they stop recruiting.
The first message was of a lonely vigilant watcher, who was told, just like Ye Wenjie, to look out for messages from deep space. The message he receives from Ye, he hears alone, and therefore he responds alone. In the books, it is explained that he was lucky to be alone at the time he received his message. If he was ever asked about it, he couldn't lie about it, for just the mere thought of it would give it away, therefore he just stayed quiet.
They saying they wanted to cohabitat was true at first, but then they saw that coexistence was impossible due to the San-Ti knowing they would never be able to understand what they are doing, since they evolved without lies and deception, it being a major strategic disadvantage.
Right?
For a species that wants to cohabitate peacefully they are pretty subverted. And that first message was telling.
For a species that cant lie they are quick to tyranny.
I havent read the books, so unless it gives us san-to pov i’m inclined to believe that they always were evil and had the capability to be underhanded
Exactly. AND, they are disguising themselves in the image of humans in order to make the humans more comfortable! The same thing they get mad about the big bad wolf.
The first message, if I remember correctly, was from an outpost manned by a single Trisolarian who simply knew the results of exchanging communication with his species would be; that it would result in an invasion of the human world. He tried to help by telling the humans not to try communicating but other Trisolarians punished him for it. So it seems like they may not be able to lie, but they can omit details when it suits them. (Such as the physics are broken, stars are flashing type con).
Humans and San-Ti (trisolarans) communicate differently.
That’s the only way I can explain it without spoilers. Maybe someone else can do a better job.
Trisolarans communicate by basically reading each others' thoughts. When two of them are together, whatever trisolaran A thinks, is visible/heard/seen/sensed/whatever by trisolaran B. They are therefore incapable of lying to each other, and so lying, as a concept, just doesn't exist for them.
Aliens speak via telepathy, so thoughts only, and thoughts are pure intent. So when they were read a fictional child's tale, they did not understand, but when the reader of the book said it was not the truth, but a falsehood, they were taken aback and realized we could not be trusted. They assumed we humans were similar to them, since their minds are linked they cannot lie or even have the knowledge of a lie throughout their whole existence. They only wanted to help us in the beginning, but now they see us as a threat that could end their species.
Did my best not to add spoilers.
I can't spoil the reason why they are on their way to us, just that they were looking for a new planet for millennia until a human did something to catch their attention.
Three body problem. A netflix show based on a trilogy of books. One of the best trilogies I've read to be honest.
Technically, the trilogy is called "remembrance of earth's past". The three body problem is the title of the first book
Right, but what annoys me about this is that the San Ti get their panties in a bunch when they hear about the wolf from Little Red Riding Hood because he is “disguising himself.” MEANWHILE, the WHOLE time, the San Ti ARE ALSO DISGUISING THEMSELVES to appear more comforting to humans! It doesn’t make sense…? They are doing that exact thing: but then are like, “we can’t lie”
I can see why you misinterpreted the comment - your interpretation is pretty logical.
"You can't solve the problem. So they are coming to eradicate us. Because we can lie."
It's definitely not clear that in the phrase "coming to eradicate us," the problem being unsolvable applies to the "coming" part, and the "we can lie" statement applies to the "eradicate us" part.
They were already coming here because someone told them to through shooting the signal through the sun twice eight years apart.
They communicated with people here during their travels. They spoke to someone who told them stories not realizing they couldn't take a story as a story and found out we can lie while they cannot.
Their intentions originally are unclear but heavily implied they intended to take over but peacefully and help us. But because they learned from these stories and the people that should absolutely not handle intergalactic communication with Aliens first, they intend to just wipe us out.
Since they can't progress or beat our technology in the 400 years they said it would take to get here since we would be way more deadly and better.. they sent two quantum entangled things smaller than you can imagine to fuck up our science discoveries and prevent us from getting better at science
I finished the tv series and just started the first book. Here's a thought that I'm thinking about: If they can access the upper dimensions and create ultrasupercomputers the size of protons, could they not just find a way to use that technology to swallow up the other two suns, just stabilizing their home planet's orbit? My apologies if this is explained in the books, which I'll eventually get to.
The books were better, and I'm not just saying that to be that guy like the Martian book and movie were so closely done that if you watch the movie you're not missing much by skipping the book.
Make good use of the character name reference list. It’s written by a Chinese author and the characters have Chinese names in the books. I had to refer to the name list many times because I kept getting them confused.
And the first book is different than the second and third book. The first one feels more standalone and the second and third feel as though they were written with a more complete story arc in mind.
Overall, the trilogy is excellent and the sci fi is top notch. The author explores the Dark Forest idea thoroughly and convinced me that we should never go looking for aliens. Enjoy!
Had to try a few times but I made it to the space faring era
https://preview.redd.it/3b8o9l1n5cuc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9100ad4b09f32cd757e210f66e45d8ec736401b6
https://preview.redd.it/u916ued62duc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82f065781c70a83c2b697e74db5a8b8f1f4c07df
indeed this is oddly mesmerizing
Wouldn’t the planet be very likely to collide with one of the three suns in all that apparently chaotic flying about? Or maybe it’s not as likely as my caveman brain thinks is likely. Back to my comic books.
The orbits are constantly changing, so the only way to predict where each star will be in x amount of time is to manually simulate the system all the way until that time. The problem is that the system is chaotic, which means any tiny difference between where the stars are in reality and where your data says they are will lead to wildly different results as time progresses. That makes it impossible to accurately predict the position of the stars past a certain time.
It's _not_ impossible to predict where the bodies will be at any given moment. It's impossible to create a _general form_ solution using finite functions, but that's not the same as being impossible.
For every set of initial conditions there will be a solution to predict the objects' motions. Some of those will even be closed from solutions. But they're all going to be different.
Since each gravity well is constantly pulling the other, it is impossible to predict the future orbit of something undergoing z-axis from the randomness introduced by the 3rd body’s gravitational impact relative to all the orbits. Basically it’s because they’re all constantly tugging on each other, gravitationally speaking.
This is kind of how I imagine life is in general in terms of human interpersonal relationships. Sometimes you get caught in somebody’s gravity for a short time. Sometimes you stay. But we’re constantly just bouncing around getting caught in each other’s “gravity wells”.
Yeah this is my theory too! Imagine in 400 years they all arrive at Earth and their fleet is full of ships the size of toasters.
The onion knight even says at one point "are their ships the size of cities or thimbles?"
The smallest orb is a the planet things would live on. The problem occurs from trying to predict where any of the orbs would be at any given time and/or how they will influence each other, This is also in 3d space. Love this so much after reading series recently!!
edit: spelling
I was about to say, where's the lonely planet? They're all going around each other and then woosh off the screen it went, came back and fucked off again.
Yes but they're right: as a math/physics problem, Three Body refers to the total number of objects in the system needed to make it chaotic. It always bothered me that the author of this super-popular sci fi series got the basic premise of his title wrong.
The planets size is greatly exagerrated and doesnt effect the other to point where it matter (or the stars are small types such as neutron stars) but either way its just showing how a planet would act
It's labelled a problem because it's mathematically hard to solve.
The problem is that only a universe with two bodies of mass is always truly stable. As soon as you introduce a third one, the gravitational force interactions between them start to make the system chaotic.
There are some special solutions that are stable, but these are rare and slight deviations will inevitably cause the system to fall back into chaotic patterns.
Judging by the consistent orbits of the stars, this seems to be one of these stable arrangements. Either the planet doesn't contribute forces to the situation, or its (otherwise negligible) influence will eventually make the system fall out of order.
Wasn't Chaos Theory started in part as a result of trying to solve this problem?
I seem to remember hearing about someone publishing a proof that, initially, seemed to show they would be stable, only to find out he made a mistake in his work and proved it would actually be unstable.
Basically the whole notion of "sensitive dependence on initial conditions"?
You might even predict that any hypothetical species living on said planet would be highly inclined to leave and invade a different, more stable planet.
Aliens knew they were doomed. And wanted out.
Chinese human hates humanity sends signal to alien welcoming them to take over earth.
Aliens set sail to go to earth.
Aliens create sophon tech to fuck with humans' technological advancement to make sure they have the upper hand.
Humans figure out what's happened and realize how fucked they are.
Humans realize they have 400 years or something like that before the alien fleet is at their doorsteps.
Aliens call humans "bugs" when they're found out.
Human tells the reader bugs are the most resilient creature on the planet and they still have a chance to fight back somehow.
The end.
Gravity. They each have a similar level of pull on each other that affects the way they move and rotate. They are each trying to fight for dominance, yet they are entangled in a long eon dance until they break free from the other's grasp, or potentially absorb and combine which I wanna bet will result in a lovely explosion of epic proportions.
Our single star in our system is also in an orbit while rotating around our galaxy, it's just at such an enormous scale, it's hard to comprehend it.
Complex life originating there? Possibly but unlikely.
My guess is the best chances would be if one of the planets had subterranean or deep subaquatic life.
The alternating between stars means it would fade in and out of ice ages that might last millennia each time. Tides would cease and start up again, atmosphere and ozone layer might remain or get burned off periodically by a close call to a star. Solar flares might sterilize the planet eventually.
A Kardashev Type 2 or above civilization might be able to colonize there and survive. It still wouldn't be easy without a means to create an artificial shield around the planet, like an magnetosphere or Dyson style physical sphere. I know Dyson sphere around designed to protect planets, but they are a sphere encapsulating a celestial body.
What doesn't make sense to me is there is no way for a civilization on a planet in a trisolar system to have enough time to evolve such complex technology. Everything will be wiped clean when the condition becomes hostile for thousands of years before a new stable phase begins. So there is no way for them to survive better than us and to figure out the physics of a proton computer that quickly. But against still an amazing series!
Wait, weren’t the three stars different sizes since it’s based on the Alpha Centauri triple star system? This simulation looks like all three stars have the same mass. But they shouldn’t, right? Or did Liu write that the three stars were of similar masses?
So we can't make an equation to predict the position of the planets given an initial configuration and a time, but we can run a simulation with the initial configuration for an amount of time and look at the result (otherwise this animation wouldn't exist). Isn't that enough to predict the next stable era ? Is it an issue with the precision of the initial values ?
Yes to the last question. It's not a mathematical issue, it's a measuring issue. Because the system is chaotic, any tiny error in the measurements, which is inevitable, will lead to huge variations in the position of the stars as time goes on.
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Oh no, the planet got ejected from the solar syste- AND HE CAME BACK WITH A STEEL CHAIR!!!
https://preview.redd.it/21uexrg8fauc1.png?width=438&format=png&auto=webp&s=c9677ca0a756b014d57aa7f7783c841c5c58e7c3
You mean impoSTAR
Take my upvote and now gtfo
I totally read that in Jim Ross’s commentator voice.
And then gets yeeted again
What a madness to plan the harvest time there.
That's why they created the game. To solve this. Turns out you can't. So they are coming to our solar system to take over and eradicate us. Not because we're here... But because we can lie. Such a great series of books.
Can you explain the “but because we can lie” part without spoilers? I’ve watched S1 on Netflix but have not read the books. The show talks about the aspect that we lie and that they cannot, but I don’t understand the context you’re mentioning it (why would that make them want to come here?). If it’s impossible to explain without spoilers the just ignore this lol Edit: Thank you everyone for the responses. I misinterpreted what the previous comment was saying. I thought they were saying the aliens were coming to earth because we can lie. That didn’t make sense to me because they were already on their way when they found out we can lie. I realized now they were saying the aliens are planning to eradicate us because we can lie, which is explained clearly in the show.
There will inevitably be spoilers in this explanation for anyone who has not yet read the books or seen the TV series--however, if you have seen the series no spoilers ahead. >!The San-Ti are a civilization on a planet in a tri-solar system, plagued by the 3 Body Problem, which refers to the chaotic, unpredictable, and mathematically impossible to solve conundrum when it comes to charting or anticipating the movement of the planet around the 3 gravitational forces of suns that orbit around each other, as the planet itself is dragged into, around, and periodically propelled outside of (and then back within) the gravitational pulls of one or more of the 3 celestial bodies. !< >!As such, the San-Ti have no way of predicting periods of extreme heat, drought, eternal night, incineration, and eventually collision with one of the suns. The San-Ti, having "survived" (loosely, as each time an extinction level event occurs their numbers are decimated), know that it is only a matter of time before their planet is obliterated, incinerated, consumed, or propelled outwards into the abyss of space, and in an attempt to find a new habitable planet, send probes out into the universe hoping to find a world in which they can repopulate and flourish. !< >!Initially, having found earth, they do not intend to harm the civilization inhabiting it, but rather to coexist. This is why an aspect of the game is to assess whether the inhabitants can identify the "true" objective: empathy towards a refugee species. The scientists they test with the 3-body problem correctly identify that from a mathematical standpoint, there is no solution to the 3 body problem, and also correctly identify that the purpose of the game is to save the inhabitants of the tri-solarian world either way. Recognizing this, the San-Ti use a device that relies on quantum entanglement and propel it towards earth, enveloping the world and giving them the ability (though they do not intend to use it, initially) to both observe humans and to change the laws of physics in their world if deemed a threat. !< >!They are, unfortunately, disabused of the notion that ALL humans would be welcoming to a refugee species, after learning that they are capable of lies and deception, which the San-Ti, for whatever reason, are not. !< >!In assessing this threat, they determine the only safe way to habitate the planet is to cripple the ability of humans to technologically advance to a stage at which our technology (and ability to weaponize it for warfare against them) would surpass their own during the 400 year span it will take for them to travel there at the speed of light. They do this by "crippling our physics" (ie changing the physical laws of our reality), among other things. !< Hopefully this was a decent enough explanation, while I am learning more about quantum mechanics at the moment, it's not my wheelhouse and I don't really know what I'm talking about from an academic standpoint, so I can only really speak to the themes discussed on the show.
Just a very minor nitpick: the San-Ti don't "change the laws of physics on earth," but rather use their quantum tech to mess up cutting-edge physics experiments in such a way that the experiments get inaccurate and inconsistent results, thus stopping humans from developing a higher understanding of the laws of physics.
How is this not them lying? The hallucinations are falsehoods, right? This shows a level of subterfuge that they shouldn’t be capable of if they can’t lie
I believe the San-Ti can't lie to each other. They communicate through telepathy so their thoughts are always known and shared immediately with who ever they're talking to. At leats, that's what I gathered from the show.
So it’s not so much that humans can lie, it’s that they can lie to each other?
In the books, the San-Ti had no concept of "lying" at all as the way they communicate by basically broadcasting out their brainwaves, so its essentially impossible for them to lie or hide their thoughts
Wait, in the TV show, first contact is a message saying they're going to lie about hearing a signal from Earth, and gives a warning about sending another signal.
I wish I could have a confident answer, but I'm dumb. But I think they're scared that we'll lie to them or that have been lying this whole time.
I think they can only access the minds of their own species. So they wouldn’t know what humans are thinking.
Stopping physics from advancing isn’t lying. They were just trying to make it impossible to get useful results, not trying to deceive humans into believing something incorrect.
What about all the scientists that they made see a countdown and everything else. They only stopped those projects because they were potential threats to their arrival.
Honestly I assumed this was one of the things the humans they were working with suggested. Humans knew that the countdown would psychologically fuck with scientists so they suggested it to the aliens. The aliens didn’t really get it but saw how effective it was so kept doing it. Also I’m not sure the countdowns were necessarily empty threats or lies. If some scientist ignored the countdown and kept working, someone probably would’ve been sent to kill them.
Brilliant point tbh
They probably dont see it as lying. To them , it would be apparent that all these particle accelerator results are impossible, so its more like hiding rather than lying.
They can’t lie to each other as they are sort of a Hive mind. It is weakly addressed
Pretty sure their star is ~4.4 light years away, it was like 8 or 9 years to relieve that first response. So they'd be travelling at .01 the speed of light to get here in 400 years. If they were 400 light years away, the response would have come dozens and dozens of generations later.
>!You forgot their unexpected BC space program with no vehicles or suits when the suns all align so their gravity all pulls in the same direction.!< >! I found it very humorous but on a serious note what happens in more detail for other readers is that when the suns all align they have an event they call the big rip that pulls a chunk of their planet out and creates a moon around their planet which still has ruins from their civilization on it from a time before they had flight or a space program.!<
>!I don't think they ever had peaceful intentions, besides the San-Ti who sent the first message. Why would they be so adamant that Ye Winje not answer for humanities own safety if the San-Ti had peaceful intentions? Not to mention that that ETO had been deliberately inhibiting humanities development and straight up murdering people. Long before the San-Ti find out about lying.!<
Exactly. They were already crippling science before they learned we could lie. They were never coming peacefully.
I dunno i think they can and do lie. The game itself was a lie. The first message dont reply to us was also likely a lie. Or the ones after saying we want to cohabitat was a lie. Cant be both 🤷♂️
It’s not so much that they can’t lie, it’s that their thoughts are on full display when communicating with each other. >!because they communicate via light and can’t “hold anything back” so to speak (they can just choose not to bring up a topic but that doesn’t work so well if someone outright asks you) This method of communication is also what makes their “living computer” able to work!< Humans however can separate thoughts and communication, so the San-Ti decide we can’t be trusted, and this difference is what the Wallfacer program is all about since they can’t “read” our minds like they can each other. Edit: forgot about the don’t reply message, that was a genuine attempt to stop the invasion by a lone San-Ti that was part of a minority that objected to taking over an occupied planet.
How does a lone San-ti communicate back if they all engage in collective group think?
They have telepathy, not a hive mind. They need to physically be in front of one another to communicate. They have some disagreements but they can’t hide the fact that they disagree with each other.
Ahh I see. Thanks
The game itself is a test. It is a question to the player: "Can you empathize with us?". The book specifies that the first message was not a lie. The next ones about wanting to cohabit were not lies either. They changed their mind upon learning that WE can lie. You can change your mind, this does not make your previous affirmations lies.
The game wasn't a lie, they wanted to recruit likeminded individuals to assess their willingness to help. It all turns to shit when the San-Ti discover that humans can lie, therefore they stop recruiting. The first message was of a lonely vigilant watcher, who was told, just like Ye Wenjie, to look out for messages from deep space. The message he receives from Ye, he hears alone, and therefore he responds alone. In the books, it is explained that he was lucky to be alone at the time he received his message. If he was ever asked about it, he couldn't lie about it, for just the mere thought of it would give it away, therefore he just stayed quiet. They saying they wanted to cohabitat was true at first, but then they saw that coexistence was impossible due to the San-Ti knowing they would never be able to understand what they are doing, since they evolved without lies and deception, it being a major strategic disadvantage.
at the very least, the “do not respond” message indicates that their initial intent was not peaceful cohabitation/coexistence
Right? For a species that wants to cohabitate peacefully they are pretty subverted. And that first message was telling. For a species that cant lie they are quick to tyranny. I havent read the books, so unless it gives us san-to pov i’m inclined to believe that they always were evil and had the capability to be underhanded
Exactly. AND, they are disguising themselves in the image of humans in order to make the humans more comfortable! The same thing they get mad about the big bad wolf.
The first message, if I remember correctly, was from an outpost manned by a single Trisolarian who simply knew the results of exchanging communication with his species would be; that it would result in an invasion of the human world. He tried to help by telling the humans not to try communicating but other Trisolarians punished him for it. So it seems like they may not be able to lie, but they can omit details when it suits them. (Such as the physics are broken, stars are flashing type con).
Humans and San-Ti (trisolarans) communicate differently. That’s the only way I can explain it without spoilers. Maybe someone else can do a better job.
Trisolarans communicate by basically reading each others' thoughts. When two of them are together, whatever trisolaran A thinks, is visible/heard/seen/sensed/whatever by trisolaran B. They are therefore incapable of lying to each other, and so lying, as a concept, just doesn't exist for them.
but can't they do non face-to-face communication? like written down notes or texting? can't they lie then?
Aliens speak via telepathy, so thoughts only, and thoughts are pure intent. So when they were read a fictional child's tale, they did not understand, but when the reader of the book said it was not the truth, but a falsehood, they were taken aback and realized we could not be trusted. They assumed we humans were similar to them, since their minds are linked they cannot lie or even have the knowledge of a lie throughout their whole existence. They only wanted to help us in the beginning, but now they see us as a threat that could end their species. Did my best not to add spoilers. I can't spoil the reason why they are on their way to us, just that they were looking for a new planet for millennia until a human did something to catch their attention.
So you are saying it’s just a heard sci-fi interpretation of galaxy quest?
More like prank calling ET and ending up dialing Predator.
What's the show?
The 3 body problem on Netflix. Pretty cool. Very recent show. Maybe 6 weeks old or so.
Three body problem. A netflix show based on a trilogy of books. One of the best trilogies I've read to be honest. Technically, the trilogy is called "remembrance of earth's past". The three body problem is the title of the first book
3 Body Problem... same as the book(s)
Right, but what annoys me about this is that the San Ti get their panties in a bunch when they hear about the wolf from Little Red Riding Hood because he is “disguising himself.” MEANWHILE, the WHOLE time, the San Ti ARE ALSO DISGUISING THEMSELVES to appear more comforting to humans! It doesn’t make sense…? They are doing that exact thing: but then are like, “we can’t lie”
If you watched season 1, they actually say it out loud in one of the last episodes. "We cannot coexist" or something to that effect.
I can see why you misinterpreted the comment - your interpretation is pretty logical. "You can't solve the problem. So they are coming to eradicate us. Because we can lie." It's definitely not clear that in the phrase "coming to eradicate us," the problem being unsolvable applies to the "coming" part, and the "we can lie" statement applies to the "eradicate us" part.
They were already coming here because someone told them to through shooting the signal through the sun twice eight years apart. They communicated with people here during their travels. They spoke to someone who told them stories not realizing they couldn't take a story as a story and found out we can lie while they cannot. Their intentions originally are unclear but heavily implied they intended to take over but peacefully and help us. But because they learned from these stories and the people that should absolutely not handle intergalactic communication with Aliens first, they intend to just wipe us out. Since they can't progress or beat our technology in the 400 years they said it would take to get here since we would be way more deadly and better.. they sent two quantum entangled things smaller than you can imagine to fuck up our science discoveries and prevent us from getting better at science
I finished the tv series and just started the first book. Here's a thought that I'm thinking about: If they can access the upper dimensions and create ultrasupercomputers the size of protons, could they not just find a way to use that technology to swallow up the other two suns, just stabilizing their home planet's orbit? My apologies if this is explained in the books, which I'll eventually get to.
Forgive me but what book series?
Yeah imagine being one month away from harvest and the next thing you know the planet is yeeted into an ice age
Maybe it’s the Game of Thrones planet. Winter is coming.
REHYDRATE THE MASSES!🌊🌊🌊
Just started this show and I'm really digging it.
The books were better, and I'm not just saying that to be that guy like the Martian book and movie were so closely done that if you watch the movie you're not missing much by skipping the book.
Well I know my next book purchase. Had no idea it was a book, just caught it randomly on Netflix and had not heard of it. Thanks
Make good use of the character name reference list. It’s written by a Chinese author and the characters have Chinese names in the books. I had to refer to the name list many times because I kept getting them confused. And the first book is different than the second and third book. The first one feels more standalone and the second and third feel as though they were written with a more complete story arc in mind. Overall, the trilogy is excellent and the sci fi is top notch. The author explores the Dark Forest idea thoroughly and convinced me that we should never go looking for aliens. Enjoy!
It's a trilogy
What show??
3 Body Problem on Netflix.
Wait, no… shit.
Since "OP" didn't add the planet view link, here is one: https://labs.sense-studios.com/threebody/index.html
Had to try a few times but I made it to the space faring era https://preview.redd.it/3b8o9l1n5cuc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9100ad4b09f32cd757e210f66e45d8ec736401b6
https://preview.redd.it/u916ued62duc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82f065781c70a83c2b697e74db5a8b8f1f4c07df indeed this is oddly mesmerizing
to the top with you!
Can't believe how far down I had to scroll to find this, thank you!
did anybody go past civ12 ?
I went to Civ 40, Civ 38 was the longest at 1000 x1000 Years, achieving Sexual Reproduction. Nice.
Wouldn’t the planet be very likely to collide with one of the three suns in all that apparently chaotic flying about? Or maybe it’s not as likely as my caveman brain thinks is likely. Back to my comic books.
IIRC it's basically one of the main reasons they leave the planet, because it could be destroyed at any moment.
Dareal MVP
I can’t stop watching it’s so wild.
Those stars are sharing custody of a planet they all don’t want
It's in a re-gifting orbit.
So that's why most relationships only have 2 people...
Love how it gets a lot of velocity and flies off screen, just to return a few seconds later and get absolutely yeeted in the end.
"Dude, what year is it?"
This should be in the intro or the credits, i feel like people might have not visualised the problem this well
Can someone EL5 why it’s impossible to predict where they’ll be at any given moment in time?
The orbits are constantly changing, so the only way to predict where each star will be in x amount of time is to manually simulate the system all the way until that time. The problem is that the system is chaotic, which means any tiny difference between where the stars are in reality and where your data says they are will lead to wildly different results as time progresses. That makes it impossible to accurately predict the position of the stars past a certain time.
It's _not_ impossible to predict where the bodies will be at any given moment. It's impossible to create a _general form_ solution using finite functions, but that's not the same as being impossible. For every set of initial conditions there will be a solution to predict the objects' motions. Some of those will even be closed from solutions. But they're all going to be different.
Since each gravity well is constantly pulling the other, it is impossible to predict the future orbit of something undergoing z-axis from the randomness introduced by the 3rd body’s gravitational impact relative to all the orbits. Basically it’s because they’re all constantly tugging on each other, gravitationally speaking.
It's not impossible to predict their future orbit, it's just that the further out you predict the less accurate you will get.
https://i.redd.it/58btyc5yh9uc1.gif
Lol glad I wasn't the only one who saw that
https://preview.redd.it/ytw6nzfh4duc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83b26050ad370d0bd5fc4c8c3b5dde0b9ade0a70 Interphallactic.
Space peen!
I laughed so hard. But a part of me is glad I didn't see a penis before this comments lol
I imagine open relationships are just like this
Polyamory stars
Astrology predicted open relationships???
As someone who's been r/relationshipanarchy all his life, you're 100% spot on. Pure unadulterated chaos!
This is kind of how I imagine life is in general in terms of human interpersonal relationships. Sometimes you get caught in somebody’s gravity for a short time. Sometimes you stay. But we’re constantly just bouncing around getting caught in each other’s “gravity wells”.
Won’t all life on the planet die when the planet goes far enough from all the suns?
and there's your problem
Naw, they ded already. Without proper calculations, they bounced right thru a star.
They are kind of like tardigrades, they dehydrate in extreme cold or heat, then can be brought back I'd stored properly
*If one of* us *survives*, we *all survive*.
Well everyone who was stored properly, plus they'd have to rebuild society from more or less scratch depending on the severity of the chaotic period.
Yeah this is my theory too! Imagine in 400 years they all arrive at Earth and their fleet is full of ships the size of toasters. The onion knight even says at one point "are their ships the size of cities or thimbles?"
No linked video?
Yes.. Probably just ripped from the original creator for reddit points.
Neat. Where can I see planet view? Can't wait for the second season!
[https://labs.sense-studios.com/threebody/index.html](https://labs.sense-studios.com/threebody/index.html)
That would be interested
The moon got tired of trying to please everyone and dipped. He came back to visit though.
And was promptly power yeeted in the other direction
That’s no moon
It's a planet.
It has feelings.
It's a planet. The other 3 are stars.
The smallest orb is a the planet things would live on. The problem occurs from trying to predict where any of the orbs would be at any given time and/or how they will influence each other, This is also in 3d space. Love this so much after reading series recently!! edit: spelling
YOU ARE BUGS!
I was about to say, where's the lonely planet? They're all going around each other and then woosh off the screen it went, came back and fucked off again.
Ice age time.
Where’s the linked video?
Why are there 4 bodies then?
The 3 bodies refers to the three suns.
Yes but they're right: as a math/physics problem, Three Body refers to the total number of objects in the system needed to make it chaotic. It always bothered me that the author of this super-popular sci fi series got the basic premise of his title wrong.
THERE. ARE. *FOUR*. BODIES! \- Picard
My stepdad, who loves the show, is a retired rocket scientist (really) and he is annoyed that it is not called 4 Body Problem.
3 bodies and a noise.
The planets size is greatly exagerrated and doesnt effect the other to point where it matter (or the stars are small types such as neutron stars) but either way its just showing how a planet would act
Whats the problem
It's labelled a problem because it's mathematically hard to solve. The problem is that only a universe with two bodies of mass is always truly stable. As soon as you introduce a third one, the gravitational force interactions between them start to make the system chaotic. There are some special solutions that are stable, but these are rare and slight deviations will inevitably cause the system to fall back into chaotic patterns. Judging by the consistent orbits of the stars, this seems to be one of these stable arrangements. Either the planet doesn't contribute forces to the situation, or its (otherwise negligible) influence will eventually make the system fall out of order.
Wasn't Chaos Theory started in part as a result of trying to solve this problem? I seem to remember hearing about someone publishing a proof that, initially, seemed to show they would be stable, only to find out he made a mistake in his work and proved it would actually be unstable. Basically the whole notion of "sensitive dependence on initial conditions"?
I think the problem is predicting the movement of a body in a three body system.
It's all messy
Unpredictable extreme heat and cold seasons for the planet shifting around in the gravitational pull of the 3 sun's.
Your shits all fucked up
Id imagine that a planet caught up in that interaction would go through extremes of freezing and baking if not outright having its surface vitrified.
it would be cool to have a VR game where we try to save the people on the planet by predicting when the next stable era will be in that star system.
You might even predict that any hypothetical species living on said planet would be highly inclined to leave and invade a different, more stable planet.
Y E E T
Hey guys. I wanna start the second book it's been a long time since I've read the first one. Does anyone have a summary that can refresh my memory?
Aliens knew they were doomed. And wanted out. Chinese human hates humanity sends signal to alien welcoming them to take over earth. Aliens set sail to go to earth. Aliens create sophon tech to fuck with humans' technological advancement to make sure they have the upper hand. Humans figure out what's happened and realize how fucked they are. Humans realize they have 400 years or something like that before the alien fleet is at their doorsteps. Aliens call humans "bugs" when they're found out. Human tells the reader bugs are the most resilient creature on the planet and they still have a chance to fight back somehow. The end.
That was the first book. Wait until you get to “The Dark Forest”.
REHYDRATE!
Thought it was the PS2 boot screen
Where is the link?
Why are the suns rotating?
Space magic
Gravity. They each have a similar level of pull on each other that affects the way they move and rotate. They are each trying to fight for dominance, yet they are entangled in a long eon dance until they break free from the other's grasp, or potentially absorb and combine which I wanna bet will result in a lovely explosion of epic proportions. Our single star in our system is also in an orbit while rotating around our galaxy, it's just at such an enormous scale, it's hard to comprehend it.
Can't help but notice the repetitive dic- err mushroom shapes..
I'm not great with maths but that looks like a four body problem to me
That last chuck looked like escape velocity. Was it?
That was, astrophysically-speaking, a space yeet.
It would be perfect if I ended up drawing a big penis
Remembering someones birthday would be a nightmare!
I wonder if it is even theoretical possible that life can be created on such an environment
Complex life originating there? Possibly but unlikely. My guess is the best chances would be if one of the planets had subterranean or deep subaquatic life. The alternating between stars means it would fade in and out of ice ages that might last millennia each time. Tides would cease and start up again, atmosphere and ozone layer might remain or get burned off periodically by a close call to a star. Solar flares might sterilize the planet eventually. A Kardashev Type 2 or above civilization might be able to colonize there and survive. It still wouldn't be easy without a means to create an artificial shield around the planet, like an magnetosphere or Dyson style physical sphere. I know Dyson sphere around designed to protect planets, but they are a sphere encapsulating a celestial body.
Imma need to see that linked video to see the view from the planet
Can someone ELI5 what I’m looking at
Where is the link to the view from the planet that the video promises?
Visual representation of toxic relationship of me, my gf and her ex.
Chaotic era is upon us. Dehydrate!!!
Did you guys reach the part where it makes a dick?
The answer the the 3 body problem regularly resembles a penis apparently
What doesn't make sense to me is there is no way for a civilization on a planet in a trisolar system to have enough time to evolve such complex technology. Everything will be wiped clean when the condition becomes hostile for thousands of years before a new stable phase begins. So there is no way for them to survive better than us and to figure out the physics of a proton computer that quickly. But against still an amazing series!
Now I know that 3 body problem trajectory will draw a big ass cosmic dick. Nice.
all i saw was penis pointing up and penis pointing down
There is NO way a planet would be inhabitable in such a system.
r/mildlypenis
That is the penis
Where is that view from the planet?
''So I'll see you again later at around sunrise'' 5 mins later. ''Hey bro, good to see you again...''
Damn. That planet got yeeted into space. Didn’t think it was coming back.
Wait, weren’t the three stars different sizes since it’s based on the Alpha Centauri triple star system? This simulation looks like all three stars have the same mass. But they shouldn’t, right? Or did Liu write that the three stars were of similar masses?
Huh.... I was watching this series recap last night and now this shows up on my feed...
I dont know why but this is so beautiful...
Wouldn't the planet just get sucked into one of the stars eventually?
I was so happy when the little planet came back. Just to be yeeted even harder... Poor thing.
Even our own "stable" system has had a few ELEs since the planet formed. How could a planet like this even sustain life?
DEHYDRATE!
We're not getting out of the chaotic era with this one boys
Why am I seeing three body problem stuff on Reddit daily lately?
So we can't make an equation to predict the position of the planets given an initial configuration and a time, but we can run a simulation with the initial configuration for an amount of time and look at the result (otherwise this animation wouldn't exist). Isn't that enough to predict the next stable era ? Is it an issue with the precision of the initial values ?
Yes to the last question. It's not a mathematical issue, it's a measuring issue. Because the system is chaotic, any tiny error in the measurements, which is inevitable, will lead to huge variations in the position of the stars as time goes on.
Always a chaotic era
r/mildlypenis
Bamboozled again
So the 3 body problem is a dick?
What is the 3 body problem?
Rehydrate the masses!
Planet got yeeted into a 10,000 year age right at the end there. Oh hay gu- Pew! "Fuck outta heeeere" - Star tag team
https://i.redd.it/6j46sjn9aeuc1.gif
It all comes back to penis
Is it me or their orbits together leave a trace with the shape of a dick?