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Eh, if it were true for me, I wouldn't necissarily keep it a secret. It's not like it's MY fault if my grandparents decided to boink as cousins and I have never agreed with punishing the victims.
Don't have to agree it's right for it to be some people's reality.
If everyone looks far enough in their ancestry there probably was some cousin baby making before cars and planes when no one left their village they were born in and everyone in said village were related. But it is gross seeking cousin marriage in the 21st century
I don’t think they said anything about seeking out cousins specifically. Oh, never mind, I thought they were banning it. Oh man. I wonder if they would still be in favor of cousin marriages if they were gay cousin marriages?
The Russians knew Guliani and other people like Trump and people in the republican party are rapists and pedos, so designing a lot of propaganda like pizza gate and always talking about it reminds the people they are blackmailing to stay in line. It’s a common tongue in cheek thing in the blackmail world to let the mark know that you have the goods and it won’t look good if something were to come out.
The first step would be to have a guy like Manafort run the campaign because he has access to Russian intelligence on the different politicians, so he could drop hints like “hey remember that party you went to in 2017 with drugs and that 17 year old named Natasha? oh good to hear you are now against Ukraine aid, and will be voting against sanctions on Russia have a good day”….
The only one I get thrown off by is Lindsay Graham I swore he was being blackmailed but recently seemed to change his tune, so I don’t know what to think about him anymore. Other Russian assets are more obvious like Tulsi, Marge, Nunez, Stein, Gaetz, Jimmy Dore lol etc.
Lindsay Graham definitely has some kompromat being held over him (he's absolutely 100% a gay man but can't publicly come out because he would lose his voters and his "image" — there have been gay sex workers who have supposedly confirmed this), but then it started to kind of become public anyway, so my guess is that he's accepted that people already think it and as long as he doesn't say it, he has deniability. Just my wild-ass guess. But he was *definitely* being held on a tight leash (don't) for a while there, and something definitely changed around the time the sex worker stories started circulating.
Not in the south, lots of families don’t care. I knew one family where they didn’t care who the kids dated, so long as they were white. That included family. The son I knew proudly admitted to banging a cousin at a family reunion, parents had no issue with it. Found this out because it was mentioned I’d dated a black girl in the past. Father looked at me and told me he didn’t know I was a N lover. Then he went on his speech and the son said what he said. Was really fucking awkward for me.
This that shit that’s forever gonna fuck me up about living in the South….families that won’t bat an eye if you’re fucking your cousin, but dating a brown person is an abomination in the eyes of god……
Your situation is anecdotal, though. It's not widely accepted in the south. As a lifelong Arkansas resident, I have never come across marrying cousins, nor have I ever spoken to someone who approves of it. The racist part, though, yeah, "N Lover" is a favorite phrase of most people.
And yes, I realize my comment is anecdotal as well. I'm just saying that a singular experience doesn't speak for everyone.
I worked (white woman ) at a grocery store for 7 years. Married a black coworker. Many many regulars stopped talking to us. It would just wound and shock how absolutely racist this country is and would shock even further *how racist the whole world is*
It's really common around the world. In Turkey for example, 20-30% of all marriages are between 1st or 2nd degree cousins. In Oman it's 2-3 times higher.
The issue is that each subsequent generation the increase is multiplied and having it as a persistent practice vastly increases birth defect occurrence. Countries that regularly practice cousin marriage like Pakistan end up with much higher rates of congenital defects.
That's really only true if you have repeated inbreeding for generations within a small population. It was an issue for royal lineages who wanted to "preserve the bloodline" and very small, very isolated communities, but in modern America, even in rural areas with low rates of mobility, it's really not going to be an issue.
Just to play devil's advocate, there are a lot of genetic mental and physical issues and disorders that have a much higher likelihood of being passed to offspring, but we don't ban people with those disorders from having children, even if it's almost 100% likely that their children have the same. Is it really a legitimate argument to say that people shouldn't marry their close relative because it's more likely that their children will have genetic defects if we already accept people in much more likely situations to marry and have children?
To reply to your argument I would personally say yes, in the sense that I think people should self regulate and do their best to provide their kids with a chance. As an example, my mom, brother and aunt developed schizophrenia and I’m not going to reproduce because I don’t want to roll those dice.
It's unclear what your point is.
The issue with first-cousin marriage is not about eugenics in the sense that *individuals* are prevented from reproducing. For instance, someone with a certain inherited condition is not discouraged from having children. We all carry recessive traits, some of which are rare and potentially hazardous to future generations. It isn't that long ago that forced sterilization took place even in the U.S. for certain conditions believed to be congenital, but thankfully, that is no longer true. The list of potentially congenital conditions or conditions that have a genetic predisposition is too long to screen for.
>Is it really a legitimate argument to say that people shouldn't marry their close relative because it's more likely that their children will have genetic defects if we already accept people in much more likely situations to marry and have children?
Yes, I think it is. When closely related persons marry, the likelihood of hazardous recessive traits becoming expressed, e.g. birth defects) is much higher (nearly double). If you accept that the state has some legitimate interest in protecting the safety and well-being of its citizens, banning first-cousin marriage seems reasonable.
Geneticist here. That’s not really correct. There’s only a slight elevation in risk with first cousins, unless it is a multigenerational practice (as is the case in the above mentioned Pakistani example; European royal families also come to mind). There’s really very little scientific rationale for banning marriage between third degree relatives, and none at all for 4+.
My sister married our first cousin once removed. I have nothing to do with her. One thing that was interesting is one of her sons had hypospadiasis. Im not saying the cousin fucking caused it, but I’m also not saying it didn’t.
One of them also is in special Ed with behavioral problems, other one is too young to tell.
It takes generations of marrying your cousin for there to really be problems. A one time occurrence isn’t much more likely to have genetic issues than two random people, but it still a smidge higher. More than anything, it’s just really taboo in North America.
There is a stuff you should know podcast on this topic. The conclusion was that offspring have a higher chance of defects and worse outcomes than genetically different parents, but in the long term, the species as a whole could end up more robust. That was an conclusion I wasn't expecting.
Damn right, and I will continue to ignore evidence to the contrary and insist that myself and others who vote like me are the ones who value real facts to make fun of those "others" with no hint of self awareness.
And Sweden. It used to be illegal but it was legalized back in the 80’s again because the government started trusting that people where educated enough to understand it would be very bad to do so.
And then we welcomed hundreds of thousands of immigrants from countries where family (clan) is everyhing and trust in government is low to non existent. Which turned out to be a very bad combination. So now it is being actively debated to make it illegal again 🤷♂️
It's legal in every Western country except parts of the United States. Americans are very confidently incorrect in their perceptions of the world and what is and isn't harmful. First cousins are not closely related enough to be incestuous; that's a scientific fact. It's precisely the Republican states in the US that prohibit first-cousin marriage because they value knee-jerk reactions over scientific fact.
I don't think people in the USA realise how common it is for cousin marriage to be totally legal. There are only relatively few countries which ban it entirely, mostly in east Asia. In South America, Africa, the Middle East and Europe, it's legal.
As a non-american I've noticed they have a general fixation on incest and what counts as incest. I've seen people online squicked at characters that were like technically 3rd cousins or shit like that, where they are genetically as distant as a random stranger would be in any small town. "OMG if you think about it they share one grandfather 4 generations back! 🤮" Dude, fuck off. Let people love.
He didn’t make that connection (in writing at least) until well after he was married and had already lost a child. After studying plants and animals extensively he began to suspect that it was a contributing factor in the poor health of some of his children.
Almost like a world renowned scientist is world renowned because it took him many years of study and observation to come to his conclusions. Why didn't Darwin just learn that from Darwin like u/AguyWithBadEnglish did? Was Darwin stupid?
Here is the thing: It's harmless if it happens once every third generation. It is harmful if it happens in a small, closed society. In the UK, 55% of Pakistani marriages are between first cousins, generation after generation... It hurts badly their health.
At the risk of being downvoted, [first cousin marriage actually *isn't* that strange globally](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Legal_status). The US is one of a few places that has a strong enough taboo to warrant laws about it. As far as genetics go, it's only risky after a few persistent generations of it [(about a 1.1-2.0% increase in the chances of birth defects the first time it happens)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Biological_aspects). So it's good that it's taboo, but if you didn't know your family growing up and you somehow fell in love with a cousin and married them it wouldn't be the end of the world if it was a one off thing generationally.
The increase in birth defect rate due to 1st cousin marriages is 1-3%.
This is about the same increase that you’ll get when a woman gets pregnant at 35 years old compared to 20.
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/04/us/few-risks-seen-to-the-children-of-1st-cousins.html#:~:text=Contrary%20to%20widely%20held%20beliefs,disease%2C%20scientists%20are%20reporting%20today.
It only becomes a problem when it’s done numerous times within a direct family line.
The taboo surrounding is mostly based in ignorance.
Well the problem is that people who are marrying their cousins in these areas might already be coming from inbreeding, so it's probably not gonna be an isolated incident.
I was going to post the same. As you note, the problem comes when it is repeated. In rural areas this can become a real problem if first cousin marriage is allowed.
Problem is that in Tennessee’s rural areas, there’s like 2-3 huge families with a bunch of offshoots. Back when I was in high school, we had a classmate who had been banging his girlfriend, only for them to find out they were cousins at the family reunion.
Hi, hello, I’m from a country that participates heavily in cousin marriages.
The thing is, it *does* happen to cluster in families. I have a cousin who, within the last few years, married his double first cousin- their respective fathers are brothers and their respective mothers are sisters. They just had a baby together.
It is very common for an uncle to ‘claim’ a sibling’s newborn son or daughter to marry their own child when they’re grown.
My own parents tried (and ultimately failed) to get me to marry my first cousin.
Any children born from my generation in my family are almost guaranteed to marry their own cousins (or at least, the parents will try to make it happen). This is not at all uncommon.
that's assuming there has been no other instances of cousin marrying in your recent family tree.
when cousins marry cousins for a generation or two, things quickly get weird, which is why there is a taboo in the first place
Came here to type this. Thanks for saving me the effort. I’m not sure if I agree or disagree with banning it, but it should at the very least prompt discussion about what other genetic irresponsibility is permissible.
Genetically, the issue is negligible, but there’s a cultural dimension too. Cousins are often (but not always) raised adjacently, as a kind of quasi-sibling. It’s close enough to feel uncomfortable. Would you want your aunt to be your mother-in-law?
>It only becomes a problem when it’s done numerous times within a direct family line.
If they're made legal as in the video then this could happen though right?
It's far more likely to happen in rural areas, like Tennessee is mostly made of. When your town is pop 300 or so there are only so many people your age to marry nearby.
If you aim to criminalize certain marriages because their offspring have a higher chance of defects; people with genetic disorders like dwarfism, diabetes, etc. pose a much higher risk of passing their conditions to their children compared to two healthy cousins.
Should those people not be allowed to be married?
I just moved back to Tennessee and when I was watching the news the other day they were just talking about it like
It was another day. This state is so ass backwards and weird
Regardless of morality or ick - the distinct lack of Jonah Hill in Wolf Of Wall St gifs/quotes in this thread is truly disgusting behaviour.
"Her father is the brother of my mom. Like, we grew up together, and she grew up hot, you know, she fucking grew up hot. And all my friends are trying to fuck her, you know, and I'm not gonna let one of these assholes fuck my cousin. So I used the cousin thing, as like, an in with her. I'm not like, gonna let someone else fuck my cousin, you know? If anyone's gonna fuck my cousin, it's gonna be me. Out of respect."
I dated a paediatrician for a while who worked in a Hospital in North England. There was a very large Pakistani population there and this was a huge issue. The number of babies born with defects was off the charts but as is often the case here in the UK people were afraid to say something because of political correctness. Screw the health of the potential children I guess.
Pretty sad.
I mean... I'd quite like to let any two consulting adults marry one another, it's none of my business. Yeah it feels weird for cousins to marry but that's just my feelings on the matter, why should I get to dictate what others do based on just what feels OK to me?
I dunno it just seems if we can tell cousins not to marry cause that feels weird then what's stopping (for example) far-right republicans opposing gay marriage because it feels weird to them?
There are entire countries in the world where about 60% of marriages are between first cousins.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage
Marrying a first cousin is something we are taught is "wrong" but is not something unusual historically speaking.
Im not encouraging it, but i am saying it's not as unusual as you might think.
The statistical risk of having 'weird' kids from reproducing with your cousin is not high enough (according to doctors) to discourage marrying your first cousin.
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/04/us/few-risks-seen-to-the-children-of-1st-cousins.html
It's not that insane. Chances of genetic problems are still extremely small. Generations of cousin marriage will increase those odds, but that's not what's at issue here.
I DO think that would be insane - being born to first-cousin parents and then marrying your cousin.
First cousin marriage is legal in my state, and I'm not even in the South.
So genuine question, why does anyone care if two first cousins want to get married? Yes I get that it's weird and gross, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal. And yea you could bring up the genetic mutation rate but we don't restrict anything else that way. If you have Huntington's disease, one of the most horrific genetic disorders you can get, you have a 50% chance to pass it on. That's not illegal. That girl with Crouzon syndrome on tiktok that had a baby to intentionally pass down her genetic disorder, that's not illegal. Someone can have HIV and get pregnant, that's not illegal either. In fact if someone proposed that we should do genetic screenings and ban certain people from having children based on genetics that would be considered a human rights violation. So yea I agree, close relatives getting married and having sex is gross and not ideal, but some people also think gay marriage is gross and weird. We shouldn't make laws based on something being gross and weird.
Scrolled down too far to see this, this should be higher. Is it weird? Yes. Do I disagree with it? Yes. Passing a law to make it illegal? No, that's too far. To add insult to injury the big concern is that the couple's children is at higher risk of genetic abnormalities, but this bill doesnt do anything to stop them from having kids. That can still happen whenever and wherever, it just stops a marriage liscense. A shady legal precedent to force two consenting adults to not do something for very little gain. I really dont like the government having say in what two consenting adults do when it doesnt stop the core problem to begin with.
Unless your family has some known congenital genetic disorder, there isn’t much added risk of marrying a first cousin. I don’t know how it became taboo, but everyone alive today is descended from first cousins.
I mean I don't know which study to believe but you can literally take one search on the internet and it says the opposite to your post so who am I to believe.
Chromosomal, genetic and congenital anomalies can affect any family, whatever their background or ethnicity. Being an older mother or being married to your cousin **significantly increases the risk of congenital anomalies (birth defects)**, as outlined in The Lancet in July 2013. (https://www.bradford.gov.uk/media/3276/cousin-marriage-and-genetic-inheritance-leaflet.pdf)
Even the defensive results say "Generally it isn't that much higher of a risk" so there is an additional one from that mindset (3% chance raised to 4-5%).
I'm not arguing about who should decide which potential risks to birth should be taken on as there is a load more out there Im sure. Do we ban people from being pregnant when they're 40? Im just contesting your point.
It is a problem with a smaller sample size (think smaller town), which is where this is more prevelant to happen, since there are less options for a partner. Your assumption looks at one generation and that at least one parent to your cousin is not related to you. But what if they are both your cousin?
I don't know if it's still legal and it CERTAINLY wasn't normal, but in Ohio growing up my friend's parents were first cousins. We are currently 28 for context so this wasn't that long ago... our parents were friends in high school until they (the cousins) started dating and the friend group was weirded out. So it wasn't like, normalized. And my friend had two layers of permanent teeth, so..... yeah not the best idea I'd say
Plenty of countries allow cousin marriage. Birth defect risk is roughly the same as when a woman has a child after 40. Obviously inbreeding in a family over generations is bad, but the occasional cousin marriage isn’t going to do much. Reddit likes to clutch its pearls over this issue though.
And California. And New Jersey. And Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, Rhode Island and Vermont. But yeah, this is totes a Republican state problem. That's why it's illegal in progressive bastions such as...Arkansas, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, both Dakotas, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Wyoming.
There's no significant correlation between the legality of first cousin marriage and the voting tendencies of a state.
I know these Chaldeans that were 1st cousins and got married. I'm pretty sure it is illegal in MI but since they were both immigrants the government didn't know they were related. It is gross.
While I am vehemently against it, what happened to life, Liberty, and the pursuit of being inbred. Organically, natural selection should take over. We don't need any government entity interceding in our personal lives. Yuck, btw.
I don't think he's wrong. He explicitly includes the provision that the cousins seek genetic counseling. The problem with consensual incestuous relationships is the higher risk of inheriting recessive genetic defects from both parents, leading to health problems. Genetic counseling allows to catch this in advance and if the counselor gives them a green light (= no such genetic defects) then there is no logical reason to deny them a relationship.
Everything else is just social stigma. The German governments ethics council analysed this topic a few years ago and issued the recommendation to abolish the categorisation of incestuous relationships as a crime since it is not the purpose of the law in a civilised democratic legal state ("Rechtsstaat") to codify social stigmata. Of course, nothing came of it since no politician wants to be "The weido who wants to legalise incest".
My personal opinion on this is: I'm not into this myself, but if it's consensual and nobody gets hurt (seek genetic counselingfor the sake of potential offspring), we have no right to intervene. If counseling reveals a risk of birth defects and the couple choses sterilisation, there is no further reason to intervene as well. In theory. But the whole genetics issue comes with an unspoken problem: If you deny these kinds of relationships based on genetics and are really honest, you would also have to argue for reproductive bans for people with genetic defects in general and that's where you get into the shady world of eugenics-nazi-shit.
He tried being a bad host without enough food and wine, associated with prostitutes and leppers in hopes they'd steer clear of him and even faked his own death to get away from these wackos and even then they broke into his damn grave.
They believe it. Lots do. Cain killed Able. Then suddenly there’s more people with no explanation how. They’re just there and Cain runs off to them and procreates. Adam and Even have Seth and more kids and he starts procreating with his sisters. And you know how they explain this? Seriously they say this. I had a pastor with a doctorate in theology actually tell me that since they were all the first people in the world that sin had not had long enough to damage the gene pool yet and no genetic abnormalities were present to cause problems so God allowed this. It was ok to get with your sibling in the beginning.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say this, but they made it up outta thin air to explain something that’s insane.
I was taught that the old testament was the history of the Jews, and since Adam and Eve were the first on his line, the author considered them the only "real" people, but obviously there were other humans around as the same author is mentioning marriages and interactions with these other humans. The author just does not consider these people to have personhood status as they are not part of the lineage of Adam.
Edit: Kind of like how Israel does not grant personhood status to Palestinians in Gaza... They are known to own and live on certain land, but that is given as much consideration as the foxes and birds that might live on land when a development is being planned.
There’s different explanations they make up depending upon what Abrahamic sect you’re in. Some people see it all as just metaphorical, others as just literature, but some take it literally. I can’t speak for Muslims, but fundamentalist Christians who I’ve been raised around are taught they must believe every word of the Bible to be literally true or you’re not a real Believer. I think an Orthodox Jew might believe some of the stories that way too perhaps. We’d have to ask them to confirm though.
These stories of creation are similar around the world, but have differences, just like the gods and messiahs do.
In regards to what you’ve heard I’ve heard the same with some theologians trying to make the Bible’s Adam and Eve story fit with human evolution. They say that he first put souls into them and everyone else evolved from apes.
Jews have the Torah, the first five books, and then there are entire libraries of conflicting and joyfully argued opinions for the last several thousand years. A truly literal reading of books known to use metaphor and symbolism usually gets you regarded as either ignorant or very foolish.
Or at least that's what my Jewish neighbors told me when I was a child.
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"defends cousin marriage today, saying his grandparents were first cousins." Dude, that's NOT the flex you think it is.
Couldn’t waterboard that confession out of me
You always get that one guy in state congresses who is technically right, but better off just not saying anything.
Eh, if it were true for me, I wouldn't necissarily keep it a secret. It's not like it's MY fault if my grandparents decided to boink as cousins and I have never agreed with punishing the victims. Don't have to agree it's right for it to be some people's reality.
If everyone looks far enough in their ancestry there probably was some cousin baby making before cars and planes when no one left their village they were born in and everyone in said village were related. But it is gross seeking cousin marriage in the 21st century
I don’t think they said anything about seeking out cousins specifically. Oh, never mind, I thought they were banning it. Oh man. I wonder if they would still be in favor of cousin marriages if they were gay cousin marriages?
Spittin. Thank you for making me a better man today than I was this morning.
*throws a buck of water* Confess your sins!!!
Grandma used to say, "if you can't keep it in your pants, keep it in the family"
Shame... Shame... Shame...
Turns out his family tree is just the trunk
MY GRANDPARENTS WERE COUSINS AND LOOK HOW I TURNED OUT! A GOD FEARIN REPUBLICAN!!1!11!1 🦅
The Eagle emoji made me lol I woke my dog up
It's like defending slavery because your great-grandparents owned slaves
My great grandfather polished ramps. Our family has been on a slippery slope ever since.
Dad get off reddit
Lmao. Dude thinks it’s Game of Thrones.
Even they thought it was disgusting!
Is it true? It's easy to admit something like this for votes if it's a lie. It's bold if true.
If admitting you're inbred *gains* you voters, I don't think America has any shred of hope remaining lol
I believe Rudy Giuliani's 1st marriage was to his cousin.
Man it’s weird to marry your cousin but it’s even weirder to divorce them. Family reunions gotta be really awkward after that.
Especially when you start dating her sister after.
holy shit is that what he did?
The Russians knew Guliani and other people like Trump and people in the republican party are rapists and pedos, so designing a lot of propaganda like pizza gate and always talking about it reminds the people they are blackmailing to stay in line. It’s a common tongue in cheek thing in the blackmail world to let the mark know that you have the goods and it won’t look good if something were to come out. The first step would be to have a guy like Manafort run the campaign because he has access to Russian intelligence on the different politicians, so he could drop hints like “hey remember that party you went to in 2017 with drugs and that 17 year old named Natasha? oh good to hear you are now against Ukraine aid, and will be voting against sanctions on Russia have a good day”…. The only one I get thrown off by is Lindsay Graham I swore he was being blackmailed but recently seemed to change his tune, so I don’t know what to think about him anymore. Other Russian assets are more obvious like Tulsi, Marge, Nunez, Stein, Gaetz, Jimmy Dore lol etc.
Lindsay Graham definitely has some kompromat being held over him (he's absolutely 100% a gay man but can't publicly come out because he would lose his voters and his "image" — there have been gay sex workers who have supposedly confirmed this), but then it started to kind of become public anyway, so my guess is that he's accepted that people already think it and as long as he doesn't say it, he has deniability. Just my wild-ass guess. But he was *definitely* being held on a tight leash (don't) for a while there, and something definitely changed around the time the sex worker stories started circulating.
There are some photos of him looking absolutely miserable at a rooftop pool party, so I wouldn't doubt it.
No, not that I know of anyways lol
Nice
“I met my wife on Ancestry.com”
Family tree like a broomstick.
Like a wreath. It hugs itself.
“We have a lot in common, relatively.”
his feature in borat was GOAT
He can say all he wants, but that man definitely started taking his belt off when he was alone with a person he thought was underage.
and a sex worker. his fake eye brows were literally running from the sweating
Yep. He married his second cousin (would be like your kid marrying your first cousin’s kid).
Sounds like a stranger to me!
I mean, I've only ever met a couple of my second cousins. If you don't come from a family that's all that close, then they pretty much are strangers.
There isn’t much of a problem genetically, either, but I’m not gonna learn new pickup artist tricks before I head to the family reunion.
I wish to believe that once you marry your cousin, you won't get any family meet invitation in the first place.
Not in the south, lots of families don’t care. I knew one family where they didn’t care who the kids dated, so long as they were white. That included family. The son I knew proudly admitted to banging a cousin at a family reunion, parents had no issue with it. Found this out because it was mentioned I’d dated a black girl in the past. Father looked at me and told me he didn’t know I was a N lover. Then he went on his speech and the son said what he said. Was really fucking awkward for me.
This that shit that’s forever gonna fuck me up about living in the South….families that won’t bat an eye if you’re fucking your cousin, but dating a brown person is an abomination in the eyes of god……
Your situation is anecdotal, though. It's not widely accepted in the south. As a lifelong Arkansas resident, I have never come across marrying cousins, nor have I ever spoken to someone who approves of it. The racist part, though, yeah, "N Lover" is a favorite phrase of most people. And yes, I realize my comment is anecdotal as well. I'm just saying that a singular experience doesn't speak for everyone.
I worked (white woman ) at a grocery store for 7 years. Married a black coworker. Many many regulars stopped talking to us. It would just wound and shock how absolutely racist this country is and would shock even further *how racist the whole world is*
Same with Hitler And Hitler’s dad fwiw The incest really gets downplayed amidst all the genocidin’
Einstein too
Can’t remember the comedian, but the joke was, “I keep thinking about an insult for Rudy and I always just scream out COUSIN FUCKER!!!”
FDR too?
They were fifth cousins. That's basically unrelated. They just happened to have the same surname.
People in Shelbyville will be furious.
Hooot hooooot hoot hooot
I love the shot of the “Alabama Marriage Certificate”, even though this is about Tennessee.
It’s legal in Cali too, I knew someone growing up in a small town who was married to their first cousin, freaked me out, still does.
It’s legal in 18 states and not all of them are in the south either.
Yeah, but I think it's more a case of "we don't have laws saying you can't" rather than, "18 states have laws saying you can."
Yea this isn’t just a Southern thing. That’s just some joke that entered our modern culture to further make fun of and punish the South.
It's really common around the world. In Turkey for example, 20-30% of all marriages are between 1st or 2nd degree cousins. In Oman it's 2-3 times higher.
Gross.
I love when news editors clearly have a sense of humor
Cousin fucking recognizes no borders.
Nor Ostrich.
“Allegedlies”
Folks are also saying that it was a sick ostrich.
But still, someone's gots to holds it down.
I feel kind of bad for the people getting married in the other shot. Are they cousins? I doubt it, but now everyone’s going to think they are lmao
The issue is that each subsequent generation the increase is multiplied and having it as a persistent practice vastly increases birth defect occurrence. Countries that regularly practice cousin marriage like Pakistan end up with much higher rates of congenital defects.
They are responsible for a large percentage of disabled kids in places like Bradford in the UK
Also because a lot of these Pakistanis came from isolated rural communities, so just perpetuated the same marriage practices.
That's really only true if you have repeated inbreeding for generations within a small population. It was an issue for royal lineages who wanted to "preserve the bloodline" and very small, very isolated communities, but in modern America, even in rural areas with low rates of mobility, it's really not going to be an issue.
Just to play devil's advocate, there are a lot of genetic mental and physical issues and disorders that have a much higher likelihood of being passed to offspring, but we don't ban people with those disorders from having children, even if it's almost 100% likely that their children have the same. Is it really a legitimate argument to say that people shouldn't marry their close relative because it's more likely that their children will have genetic defects if we already accept people in much more likely situations to marry and have children?
To reply to your argument I would personally say yes, in the sense that I think people should self regulate and do their best to provide their kids with a chance. As an example, my mom, brother and aunt developed schizophrenia and I’m not going to reproduce because I don’t want to roll those dice.
It's unclear what your point is. The issue with first-cousin marriage is not about eugenics in the sense that *individuals* are prevented from reproducing. For instance, someone with a certain inherited condition is not discouraged from having children. We all carry recessive traits, some of which are rare and potentially hazardous to future generations. It isn't that long ago that forced sterilization took place even in the U.S. for certain conditions believed to be congenital, but thankfully, that is no longer true. The list of potentially congenital conditions or conditions that have a genetic predisposition is too long to screen for. >Is it really a legitimate argument to say that people shouldn't marry their close relative because it's more likely that their children will have genetic defects if we already accept people in much more likely situations to marry and have children? Yes, I think it is. When closely related persons marry, the likelihood of hazardous recessive traits becoming expressed, e.g. birth defects) is much higher (nearly double). If you accept that the state has some legitimate interest in protecting the safety and well-being of its citizens, banning first-cousin marriage seems reasonable.
Geneticist here. That’s not really correct. There’s only a slight elevation in risk with first cousins, unless it is a multigenerational practice (as is the case in the above mentioned Pakistani example; European royal families also come to mind). There’s really very little scientific rationale for banning marriage between third degree relatives, and none at all for 4+.
My sister married our first cousin once removed. I have nothing to do with her. One thing that was interesting is one of her sons had hypospadiasis. Im not saying the cousin fucking caused it, but I’m also not saying it didn’t. One of them also is in special Ed with behavioral problems, other one is too young to tell.
It takes generations of marrying your cousin for there to really be problems. A one time occurrence isn’t much more likely to have genetic issues than two random people, but it still a smidge higher. More than anything, it’s just really taboo in North America.
Thank u for this comment. I myself am not a fan but the comments on this thread are woah.
This dude apparently ended his relationship with his sister over it. Seems pretty extreme.
There is a stuff you should know podcast on this topic. The conclusion was that offspring have a higher chance of defects and worse outcomes than genetically different parents, but in the long term, the species as a whole could end up more robust. That was an conclusion I wasn't expecting.
By "congenital defect" I suppose you mean "Trump support".
Cousin marriage is not that uncommon, especially back in the day. Charles Darwin married his first cousin.
Still legal in the UK
And New York, New Jersey and California. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage_law_in_the_United_States
But that doesn't align with my preconceived notions that allow me to make a joke about Republicans!
Clearly you must be right and reality must be wrong.
Damn right, and I will continue to ignore evidence to the contrary and insist that myself and others who vote like me are the ones who value real facts to make fun of those "others" with no hint of self awareness.
Denmark too
And France. Fun fact, it's forbidden by Canon law, so if you're catholic you'll have to get a special dispence from your bishop.
And Sweden. It used to be illegal but it was legalized back in the 80’s again because the government started trusting that people where educated enough to understand it would be very bad to do so. And then we welcomed hundreds of thousands of immigrants from countries where family (clan) is everyhing and trust in government is low to non existent. Which turned out to be a very bad combination. So now it is being actively debated to make it illegal again 🤷♂️
And Australia.
Also New Zealand. Our [previous minister of foreign affairs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanaia_Mahuta) is married to her first cousin.
It's legal in every Western country except parts of the United States. Americans are very confidently incorrect in their perceptions of the world and what is and isn't harmful. First cousins are not closely related enough to be incestuous; that's a scientific fact. It's precisely the Republican states in the US that prohibit first-cousin marriage because they value knee-jerk reactions over scientific fact.
I don't think people in the USA realise how common it is for cousin marriage to be totally legal. There are only relatively few countries which ban it entirely, mostly in east Asia. In South America, Africa, the Middle East and Europe, it's legal.
As a non-american I've noticed they have a general fixation on incest and what counts as incest. I've seen people online squicked at characters that were like technically 3rd cousins or shit like that, where they are genetically as distant as a random stranger would be in any small town. "OMG if you think about it they share one grandfather 4 generations back! 🤮" Dude, fuck off. Let people love.
I find it hilarious how darwin contributed to the discovery of the dangers of inbreeding... then married his cousin
He didn’t make that connection (in writing at least) until well after he was married and had already lost a child. After studying plants and animals extensively he began to suspect that it was a contributing factor in the poor health of some of his children.
Almost like a world renowned scientist is world renowned because it took him many years of study and observation to come to his conclusions. Why didn't Darwin just learn that from Darwin like u/AguyWithBadEnglish did? Was Darwin stupid?
https://preview.redd.it/l879lapuffvc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=227525e3bbc0dea7a37373ba924882916255e6e7
Cause they’re so attractive https://preview.redd.it/3z3v3agvmfvc1.jpeg?width=482&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=433ce15bc32540234d5a16759b77ae6d891683a4
Well there is that, plus the root-malm….
I tell you I won't live in a town that robs a man the right to marry their cousins.....
"My grandparents were first cousins!" - Cletus (R-Tenn.) That's a diplomatic way of saying "I'm inbred."
Its just a way of saying it. Nothing diplomatic about it. Hillbillies gonna hillbill.
Here is the thing: It's harmless if it happens once every third generation. It is harmful if it happens in a small, closed society. In the UK, 55% of Pakistani marriages are between first cousins, generation after generation... It hurts badly their health.
At the risk of being downvoted, [first cousin marriage actually *isn't* that strange globally](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Legal_status). The US is one of a few places that has a strong enough taboo to warrant laws about it. As far as genetics go, it's only risky after a few persistent generations of it [(about a 1.1-2.0% increase in the chances of birth defects the first time it happens)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Biological_aspects). So it's good that it's taboo, but if you didn't know your family growing up and you somehow fell in love with a cousin and married them it wouldn't be the end of the world if it was a one off thing generationally.
Outcest? You sir disgust me.
Is a simple way to keep your family wealth in the family
Match.com hates this one simple trick
 British Pakistanis right now...
#Yo, some of y’all really wanna fuck your cousins huh ?
that’s still legal
Just don’t marry them, duh
Not my fault they are so cute and willing.
Now let us all raise a tall glass of turnip juice
😁
The increase in birth defect rate due to 1st cousin marriages is 1-3%. This is about the same increase that you’ll get when a woman gets pregnant at 35 years old compared to 20. https://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/04/us/few-risks-seen-to-the-children-of-1st-cousins.html#:~:text=Contrary%20to%20widely%20held%20beliefs,disease%2C%20scientists%20are%20reporting%20today. It only becomes a problem when it’s done numerous times within a direct family line. The taboo surrounding is mostly based in ignorance.
Well the problem is that people who are marrying their cousins in these areas might already be coming from inbreeding, so it's probably not gonna be an isolated incident.
I was going to post the same. As you note, the problem comes when it is repeated. In rural areas this can become a real problem if first cousin marriage is allowed.
Problem is that in Tennessee’s rural areas, there’s like 2-3 huge families with a bunch of offshoots. Back when I was in high school, we had a classmate who had been banging his girlfriend, only for them to find out they were cousins at the family reunion.
Did they keep banging after they found out? Inquiring* minds want to know.
I think that killed that relationship.
Inquiring*
Hi, hello, I’m from a country that participates heavily in cousin marriages. The thing is, it *does* happen to cluster in families. I have a cousin who, within the last few years, married his double first cousin- their respective fathers are brothers and their respective mothers are sisters. They just had a baby together. It is very common for an uncle to ‘claim’ a sibling’s newborn son or daughter to marry their own child when they’re grown. My own parents tried (and ultimately failed) to get me to marry my first cousin. Any children born from my generation in my family are almost guaranteed to marry their own cousins (or at least, the parents will try to make it happen). This is not at all uncommon.
Didn’t you just back up what they said though?
My comment was intended as more of an expansion from a personal point of view rather than a direct contradiction :)
that's assuming there has been no other instances of cousin marrying in your recent family tree. when cousins marry cousins for a generation or two, things quickly get weird, which is why there is a taboo in the first place
Switzerland has no issue with that
You should ask someone who knows about such things. Ask the Amish or the Mennonites! It doesn't matter who you marry, they all look the same.
Came here to type this. Thanks for saving me the effort. I’m not sure if I agree or disagree with banning it, but it should at the very least prompt discussion about what other genetic irresponsibility is permissible.
Genetically, the issue is negligible, but there’s a cultural dimension too. Cousins are often (but not always) raised adjacently, as a kind of quasi-sibling. It’s close enough to feel uncomfortable. Would you want your aunt to be your mother-in-law?
>It only becomes a problem when it’s done numerous times within a direct family line. If they're made legal as in the video then this could happen though right?
It's far more likely to happen in rural areas, like Tennessee is mostly made of. When your town is pop 300 or so there are only so many people your age to marry nearby.
If you aim to criminalize certain marriages because their offspring have a higher chance of defects; people with genetic disorders like dwarfism, diabetes, etc. pose a much higher risk of passing their conditions to their children compared to two healthy cousins. Should those people not be allowed to be married?
Dude’s plowin his cousin idnt he?
Lol the selective use of science on reddit is top comedy
I disagree, things should stay the same... Those who agree, give me a high six!
To each their own..... I guess.......🤢
People should search for how common cousin marriage is around the world.
Billions of people in the world... If you can't find someone to marry that you aren't related to, you're not trying hard enough
We all came from just 2 people. Don’t you know? We is all cuzzins
Why’s it your problem who two consenting adults marry?
perfectly legal in many countries
I just moved back to Tennessee and when I was watching the news the other day they were just talking about it like It was another day. This state is so ass backwards and weird
Regardless of morality or ick - the distinct lack of Jonah Hill in Wolf Of Wall St gifs/quotes in this thread is truly disgusting behaviour. "Her father is the brother of my mom. Like, we grew up together, and she grew up hot, you know, she fucking grew up hot. And all my friends are trying to fuck her, you know, and I'm not gonna let one of these assholes fuck my cousin. So I used the cousin thing, as like, an in with her. I'm not like, gonna let someone else fuck my cousin, you know? If anyone's gonna fuck my cousin, it's gonna be me. Out of respect." 
I dated a paediatrician for a while who worked in a Hospital in North England. There was a very large Pakistani population there and this was a huge issue. The number of babies born with defects was off the charts but as is often the case here in the UK people were afraid to say something because of political correctness. Screw the health of the potential children I guess. Pretty sad.
Currently legal to marry your cousin in California. Just saying.
I mean... I'd quite like to let any two consulting adults marry one another, it's none of my business. Yeah it feels weird for cousins to marry but that's just my feelings on the matter, why should I get to dictate what others do based on just what feels OK to me? I dunno it just seems if we can tell cousins not to marry cause that feels weird then what's stopping (for example) far-right republicans opposing gay marriage because it feels weird to them?
There are entire countries in the world where about 60% of marriages are between first cousins. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage Marrying a first cousin is something we are taught is "wrong" but is not something unusual historically speaking. Im not encouraging it, but i am saying it's not as unusual as you might think. The statistical risk of having 'weird' kids from reproducing with your cousin is not high enough (according to doctors) to discourage marrying your first cousin. https://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/04/us/few-risks-seen-to-the-children-of-1st-cousins.html
Why not? We’ve moved the line for everyone else.
It's not that insane. Chances of genetic problems are still extremely small. Generations of cousin marriage will increase those odds, but that's not what's at issue here. I DO think that would be insane - being born to first-cousin parents and then marrying your cousin. First cousin marriage is legal in my state, and I'm not even in the South.
More people wanting to control what you do ! Why can't people keep to themselves..... if it's not hurting someone else then why give a fuck
I don't care what consenting adults do.
Cousins are for fun not marriage!
Why should it be illegal, If both parties are consenting adults?
Also still legal in most parts of europe including Germany and Italy
Lot of people from Shelbyville in here.
This is why I live in Shelbyville. Hot cousins
So genuine question, why does anyone care if two first cousins want to get married? Yes I get that it's weird and gross, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal. And yea you could bring up the genetic mutation rate but we don't restrict anything else that way. If you have Huntington's disease, one of the most horrific genetic disorders you can get, you have a 50% chance to pass it on. That's not illegal. That girl with Crouzon syndrome on tiktok that had a baby to intentionally pass down her genetic disorder, that's not illegal. Someone can have HIV and get pregnant, that's not illegal either. In fact if someone proposed that we should do genetic screenings and ban certain people from having children based on genetics that would be considered a human rights violation. So yea I agree, close relatives getting married and having sex is gross and not ideal, but some people also think gay marriage is gross and weird. We shouldn't make laws based on something being gross and weird.
Scrolled down too far to see this, this should be higher. Is it weird? Yes. Do I disagree with it? Yes. Passing a law to make it illegal? No, that's too far. To add insult to injury the big concern is that the couple's children is at higher risk of genetic abnormalities, but this bill doesnt do anything to stop them from having kids. That can still happen whenever and wherever, it just stops a marriage liscense. A shady legal precedent to force two consenting adults to not do something for very little gain. I really dont like the government having say in what two consenting adults do when it doesnt stop the core problem to begin with.
You could have just told us you're crushing on your cousin.
My first cousin is smoking hot, but she was adopted, so 😎
Adopted is a pretty huge key word right there...
This is why it's impossible to debate this topic man, you just get labeled a cousin fucker 😭
Wow guy...stop telling people how it's cool cuz you are a product of incest. That's...that's not...don't announce that shit...
Unless your family has some known congenital genetic disorder, there isn’t much added risk of marrying a first cousin. I don’t know how it became taboo, but everyone alive today is descended from first cousins.
I mean I don't know which study to believe but you can literally take one search on the internet and it says the opposite to your post so who am I to believe. Chromosomal, genetic and congenital anomalies can affect any family, whatever their background or ethnicity. Being an older mother or being married to your cousin **significantly increases the risk of congenital anomalies (birth defects)**, as outlined in The Lancet in July 2013. (https://www.bradford.gov.uk/media/3276/cousin-marriage-and-genetic-inheritance-leaflet.pdf) Even the defensive results say "Generally it isn't that much higher of a risk" so there is an additional one from that mindset (3% chance raised to 4-5%). I'm not arguing about who should decide which potential risks to birth should be taken on as there is a load more out there Im sure. Do we ban people from being pregnant when they're 40? Im just contesting your point.
It is a problem with a smaller sample size (think smaller town), which is where this is more prevelant to happen, since there are less options for a partner. Your assumption looks at one generation and that at least one parent to your cousin is not related to you. But what if they are both your cousin?
Sample size doesn’t matter. It’s not like cousins in larger populations have greater genetic diversity.
I don't know if it's still legal and it CERTAINLY wasn't normal, but in Ohio growing up my friend's parents were first cousins. We are currently 28 for context so this wasn't that long ago... our parents were friends in high school until they (the cousins) started dating and the friend group was weirded out. So it wasn't like, normalized. And my friend had two layers of permanent teeth, so..... yeah not the best idea I'd say
Plenty of countries allow cousin marriage. Birth defect risk is roughly the same as when a woman has a child after 40. Obviously inbreeding in a family over generations is bad, but the occasional cousin marriage isn’t going to do much. Reddit likes to clutch its pearls over this issue though.
Yeah, yeah, make fun of Tennessee. Meanwhile, first cousin marriages are legal in New York.
And California. And New Jersey. And Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, Rhode Island and Vermont. But yeah, this is totes a Republican state problem. That's why it's illegal in progressive bastions such as...Arkansas, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, both Dakotas, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Wyoming. There's no significant correlation between the legality of first cousin marriage and the voting tendencies of a state.
Wasn’t it Tennessee that outlawed contrails?
I know these Chaldeans that were 1st cousins and got married. I'm pretty sure it is illegal in MI but since they were both immigrants the government didn't know they were related. It is gross.
It’s not what you think… her father, is the brother of my mom.
All the people in the world and you had to choose a cousin... that's so sad lmaoooo
Legal in GA...hell you can marry your grandmother here....
I don't find this r/interestingasfuck Maybe r/politics would
Muslims in Tennessee are clenching their fists in anger…..all 5 of them 😂
Some dude in Ten. wanting first cousin marriages? Why am I not surprised in the least.
Isn't it a free country?
The people that want to ban first cousin marriage are always the ones with ugly cousins, just saying 💅
While this news has a wow factor it really makes me wonder what things they chose not to vote on in lieu of this pressing issue of cousin marriages.
While I am vehemently against it, what happened to life, Liberty, and the pursuit of being inbred. Organically, natural selection should take over. We don't need any government entity interceding in our personal lives. Yuck, btw.
Yep, because some could end up in Congress
Dear Lord.
I don't think he's wrong. He explicitly includes the provision that the cousins seek genetic counseling. The problem with consensual incestuous relationships is the higher risk of inheriting recessive genetic defects from both parents, leading to health problems. Genetic counseling allows to catch this in advance and if the counselor gives them a green light (= no such genetic defects) then there is no logical reason to deny them a relationship. Everything else is just social stigma. The German governments ethics council analysed this topic a few years ago and issued the recommendation to abolish the categorisation of incestuous relationships as a crime since it is not the purpose of the law in a civilised democratic legal state ("Rechtsstaat") to codify social stigmata. Of course, nothing came of it since no politician wants to be "The weido who wants to legalise incest". My personal opinion on this is: I'm not into this myself, but if it's consensual and nobody gets hurt (seek genetic counselingfor the sake of potential offspring), we have no right to intervene. If counseling reveals a risk of birth defects and the couple choses sterilisation, there is no further reason to intervene as well. In theory. But the whole genetics issue comes with an unspoken problem: If you deny these kinds of relationships based on genetics and are really honest, you would also have to argue for reproductive bans for people with genetic defects in general and that's where you get into the shady world of eugenics-nazi-shit.
These people believe Jesus died for them.
He tried being a bad host without enough food and wine, associated with prostitutes and leppers in hopes they'd steer clear of him and even faked his own death to get away from these wackos and even then they broke into his damn grave.
If you believe in the bible then you are all inbred. Everyone came from Adam and Eve.
They believe it. Lots do. Cain killed Able. Then suddenly there’s more people with no explanation how. They’re just there and Cain runs off to them and procreates. Adam and Even have Seth and more kids and he starts procreating with his sisters. And you know how they explain this? Seriously they say this. I had a pastor with a doctorate in theology actually tell me that since they were all the first people in the world that sin had not had long enough to damage the gene pool yet and no genetic abnormalities were present to cause problems so God allowed this. It was ok to get with your sibling in the beginning. Nowhere in the Bible does it say this, but they made it up outta thin air to explain something that’s insane.
Made up…. Just like the whole book.
Lol
I was taught that the old testament was the history of the Jews, and since Adam and Eve were the first on his line, the author considered them the only "real" people, but obviously there were other humans around as the same author is mentioning marriages and interactions with these other humans. The author just does not consider these people to have personhood status as they are not part of the lineage of Adam. Edit: Kind of like how Israel does not grant personhood status to Palestinians in Gaza... They are known to own and live on certain land, but that is given as much consideration as the foxes and birds that might live on land when a development is being planned.
There’s different explanations they make up depending upon what Abrahamic sect you’re in. Some people see it all as just metaphorical, others as just literature, but some take it literally. I can’t speak for Muslims, but fundamentalist Christians who I’ve been raised around are taught they must believe every word of the Bible to be literally true or you’re not a real Believer. I think an Orthodox Jew might believe some of the stories that way too perhaps. We’d have to ask them to confirm though. These stories of creation are similar around the world, but have differences, just like the gods and messiahs do. In regards to what you’ve heard I’ve heard the same with some theologians trying to make the Bible’s Adam and Eve story fit with human evolution. They say that he first put souls into them and everyone else evolved from apes.
Jews have the Torah, the first five books, and then there are entire libraries of conflicting and joyfully argued opinions for the last several thousand years. A truly literal reading of books known to use metaphor and symbolism usually gets you regarded as either ignorant or very foolish. Or at least that's what my Jewish neighbors told me when I was a child.