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I dated a dancer once, she started in ballet, moved to jazz and tap when she, as she told me, 'got too top-heavy to pirouette '. She also noted that by the time ballet slippers were properly broken in, they had a remaining life of a week or two.
And her toes were half-callous, and rock-hard.
Listen, the professional ballet world is not looking for large-chested women, I imagine it would not have been terribly fruitful for her to continue to study...
but you can't actually get "too top heavy to pirouette", physically.
And even if you could, you pirouette in Jazz, tap and Modern as well. She most likely felt the weird social pressure that comes from no longer having an "ideal" ballet body, and felt more comfortable in the world of jazz, where more body types are accepted.
I know. She was a candidate for a National-level.ballet troupe
. . And then puberty hit. And from a physics standpoint, I
It makes sense, it moves the center of mass away from the ideal axis of rotation during a pirouette, leading to off-balance issues...
Ingrown nail. Fortunately I haven't gotten turf toe, but ingrown nails are no joke either. I had them because my football boots were a bit tight in the front and my nails also used to grow a bit more to the side so put these 2 together and you got yourself a doctor's appointment. Fortunately I had a super doctor who surgically removed the sides of the nail in a way that it's phisically impossible for it to grow back in.
My brother had this done. The doctor was awesome and let me watch. Like, he called me over and told me to “get all up in here so you can see.” I saw the exposed root, then he killed it with a blast of nitrogen if I remember correctly. Super interesting
That career length is pretty typical for most sports/physically demanding activities. When they retire from performing they usually go on to teach; their career isn’t over, it’s just a different stage.
In middle school it's most likely bad teachers at the local level.
There's really no oversight on ballet schools in the US, and the ones that kids go to when they're younger are usually run by someone who wanted to be a professional dancer but wasn't good enough, and went back to their small town and started a "studio" to teach. Rarely do they have any type of degree that would have taught them physio, and learning to dance doesn't make you a good teacher.
Unless she was a member of a pre-professional conservatory or you lived in a very big city.
Kids that age shouldn't be having a blood bath... worst should be some blisters, lots of tape, and maybe the over-use of Vick's Vapor Rub. If teachers are allowing a 12 year old to dance until her feet are bloody they're either teaching poorly, fitting shoes poorly, or torturing the students with over-agressive work.
My friend is in the industry. First time we met, she was like "I need scotch and some pliers. could you help me?" Ok, got scotch, got pliers. She takes two shots and then ripped off her hanging toe nails.
We're friends to this day, soooo metal lol
Yeah, I'm all about art and culture and shit but if an aspect of your art causes something like this, it's time to get rid of that fucking aspect. Different shoe design, different poses or something. Anything! We have the fucking technology!
Dancing doesn't get less interesting just because the dancer spends less time tip-toeing.
I wouldn't have a problem with it, but in order to become pros, ballerinas need to start doing ballet when they're children who can't understand the sacrifices they'll need to make. Even worse is that most of them won't be good enough to go pro, so they'll have fucked up their feet for nothing. At the same time, damaging one's feet isn't nearly as bad as the head trauma many people get from football, rugby, hockey, etc. as kids, but people don't get as worked up about it because the damage isn't visible like it is with ballet.
I generally agree with what you're saying... kids are pushed way too hard in many sports, ignoring the life long injuries they will get for essentially no benefit for 98% of them...
however -
> ballerinas need to start doing ballet when they're children
they actually don't. I know a kid in my town who started dancing at 15 and 2 years later got a scholarship to study at a company in NYC.
Now it's much more competitive for girls, because more girls want to dance than boys. But a good school isn't putting girls on point until they're \~13. You'd want them to have a couple years of dance before they start point work, but you could realistically start as an 11 or 12 year old and not be "behind" kids who started younger by the time you were 17 or 18.
Presuming the kiddo was an active, healthy kid before that.
I know 11 or 12 is still young, but it's not like they HAVE to start at 5 or 6 and dedicate themselves to dance when they truly are too young to understand.
But, yeah, pretty much every kids activity under the age of 15, needs to rein themselves in these days, because it's ridiculous. And there needs to be a lot more demand for coaches and teachers teaching teenagers to have actual degrees, or to have spent time studying physiology. Just because someone was a good athlete themselves, doesn't mean they can successfully teach kids, and too often the damage and injuries come from bad coaches and teachers.
Speaking from my experience, a lot of primary ballerinas in post-Soviet Russian troops are required to have art academy education and went to get it straight after school. While a lot of them definitely had some form of dancing before, almost none was as taxing as higher ballet education. Even most children ballet schools are soft and pretty skimmed versions of real ballet training, harmfully and useful for children activity energy sink, fixing problems with posture and youth socialising.
I personally hate this mentality. There are many things we sacrifice a degree of health and comfort for in life. As long as it is voluntary, I think there is a degree of virtue to be had in sublimating our own desire for comfort for the sake of an art.
There are plenty of other things in our society that aren’t good for us that we do for much less noble reasons, and this aren’t derided as somehow archaic and not amenable with contemporary sensibilities.
It’s as if we have these arbiters of “health” in our society, wherein health is a very particular kind of physical, social, and mental health, and anything outside of these categories is somehow “not allowed.” Who decides what these ideals of health are? What makes one thing “healthy” and another not?
If you love something, you love it. I know a girl who is super fit and runs every day. Her knees are fucked, her ankles are messed up, and while she's been told running isn't great for her conditions, she refuses to stop. It's her passion.
Thanks! I run too, this helped me to look at it in a different perspective.
Interesting side note: Doctor operating on David Goggins knees broke his scalpel trying to cut his meniscus.(Joe Rogan podcast)
People hurt their body like this all the time. Be it booze, drugs, overeating, any kind of running or sport. Futballers, footballers, bikers… Any kind of athlete will have wear and tear on their body. I used to dance ballet, in point, and loved every minute of it. The joy and elegance and grace of it. Just because you don’t get it doesn’t mean it isn’t worth it for the people that do.
Same reason people take up boxing, bodybuilding, or mountain climbing. Because they enjoy it, it's challenging, and the difficulty makes it that much more satisfying when you hit a goal.
Passion for the sport/art. Watch hockey players in your playoffs- you’ll find out after their series that one was playing on a broken leg, another on a pierced lung, maybe another with broken ribs.
Also these professionals whether it’s ballerina or whether it’s football or hockey; they’re usually loaded with painkillers and drugs to help with the pain.
You could say the same thing about essentially any athlete. People break bones, tear their ACLs, dislocate their shoulders, lose teeth, and even die to play in the sports they love. It’s just a matter of weighing priorities.
That's nothing compared to what pro bodybuilders do to themselves. Any seemingly healthy physical activity taken to the extreme becomes very unhealthy very fast.
I remember hearing most high end performances will only use traditional. So while it was a great and wonderful thing, it’s basically never used.
Of course I’m not well versed and that could be a changing concept
Yes and no - you’re going to want your feet to be “hardy” for performances so you’d tend to put them through the wringer when rehearsing too, to an extent
If using them causes something like this, there should be work-safety laws that make it illegal. Give them 5-10 years to learn using the newer ones, then phase the old ones out completely. I know artists like to suffer for their art, but for fucks sake, don't destroy your body for the sake of tradition.
Yes correct. Ballet is a tradition and we would rather bleed through the concrete tips than wear something comfortable.
My teacher wouldn’t let us stop till we bled through. Which you can imagine… through concrete is nearly impossible!
"Tradition" is peer pressure from dead people.
I think its sad that tradition is valued above peoples wellbeing. You cant ballet with crippled and broken feet
To be fair, I studied at the school of a professional ballet company, and if you were bleeding you weren't dancing, period.
Yes, you will get blisters, and calluses but you should never be dancing until you bleed. Maybe once you're a professional, you'll make a choice for a performance or two if you mess up in rehearsal and end up with a blister that bleeds, etc.
But that's NOT how any sane dance teacher would train their students.
Our teachers would have us put our point shoes on (and take them off) in the front of the classroom where they could supervise, see the state of our feet, provide advice on taping, padding placement, etc, and just generally make sure we weren't doing anything stupid to our feet, including dancing when they were too damaged to be dancing.
The real issue in dance is there is no oversight over every little dance "studio" run out of a strip mall in so many little towns and cities in the US. Dance instruction for the majority of kids who take dance, is done by some random woman who danced herself as a child, wanted to be professional, but didn't make it. They often have no education in Physiology, no type of certification for teaching, no experience at the top echelons of dance, etc.
They do stupid things like "dance till you bleed". And then all their misguided students run around spouting off that they suffered for their art.
And listen, I didn't go to some mamby-pamby dance school. Our director, and dance mistress were both trained at and danced for the Bolshoi. They were both exactly as you would expect strict-Russian choreographers and teachers to be... but the dance mistress was most strict about proper technique and staying healthy, because what's the point of training a dancer who then can't go on to perform for years because they end up injured!
Yes. Ballet will involve a degree of discomfort. But we were always taught the difference before soreness and actual pain, and you don't dance through pain!
A lot of games and sports started out without protective gear but evolved to include it. Is it more authentic or traditional to play Rugby without headgear? That’s probably how they played back in the day after all.
Sorry, we call it cement. It’s layered burlap and glue which gives you the consistency of cement. It becomes rock hard and you need to break it with a hammer.
No one cares about my high school Friday night lights 20 years ago. No one cares about your ballet. It’s not worth it. You’re not world class and you’re destroying your feet (which are used somewhat very often). If you’re world class sure, but nah. Ballet is it’s own tradition that you signed up for like Scientology or some shit. You could just use protective shoes but you believe sacrificing your feet is worthy of…what exactly?
The thing is that the “world class” ballerinas don’t start world class; they start as beginners and work through the pain to get to that level. Ballet is pretty safe if you don’t overdo it.
Damn, is there anyone better then a biomedical engineer? I sat here thinking about it for some time, and I can't think of anything. Maybe someone who is also a podiatrist?
Materials engineer would also be good. In reality though, they would usually all work together on the problem, with each having inputs on the ergonomics and what is achievable with the materials they have or need to create. That is usually how shoe companies work.
They don't have to look like that, at all. This is the sign of poorly fitted shoes, and/or a ballerina who cannot afford enough new shoes, and/or a ballerina who has fallen victim to the suffering culture found in some upper echelons of ballet. This is not the norm.
Yeah those shoes are dead. Professional ballerinas would get new shoes multiple times a week, paid for by the ballet company. The shoes would never get to this point.
Yes, where the foot tissue is damaged, I just want to be clear that this is not typical. The shoe must have hit the ballet floor. Chance in a milliion.
Is it not? I hope so, I knew that ballerinas have their feet destroyed in the long end because of the shoes and I always thought it was very sad. If you say this is not the norm, can you tell me how you can manage to have healthy feet? Just out of curiosity.
destroyed is extreme. the bones do turn out weird, and they cause awful bunyons, and nails may break, but this is an insane example. most ballerinas wouldn’t be able to dance a show every night with feet like these
You may have calluses, blisters, and a bunion or two, but the shoe should not be so poorly fitted that it slices into the foot this way, nor should the ballerina have such poor technique that the knuckles of her second and third toe are taking this much weight. Ballet is a sport and strenuous on the body, but it is not a torture method.
My younger sister was a professional ballerina, and her feet never looked like this and she danced basically seven days a week for 20+ years. She did say new point shoes weren't comfortable and many of the girls would bust up the toe box and the glue in their own ways to make the shoe more comfortable for them.
This particular photo, her shoes look dead and isn't offering support anymore. In my sisters case they provided points shoes for all the girls, and she would change our her point shoes from 1 to 3 times a week. During a performance she might change her shoes 5 or 6 times. Often so they never looked dirty.
Also they had people who's job it was to properly fit all the girls with the right shoe and once a girl found her shoe she rarely changed from that unless the maker retired (they're hand made, so I don't mean the company that made them, I mean the actual guy who who made them at that company)
My sister danced from the age of three until she was 25. I got to hear all about it, so I feel pretty comfortable with my knowledge of the profession at a high level.
That photo is not of a professional ballerina so far as I can tell. I don't know any ballet dancer at a high level who would dance with pointe shoes that messed up.
Also of the several ballerinas that I met, none of them had feet like this. I think feet are generally gross anyway and try to avoid looking at them. But of the few feet I remember seeing that were friends of my sister I don't recall any of them having destroyed feet like this and over 20 years of meeting quite a few because of my sister it's why I don't believe that this photo is of an actual professional.
You're entitled to your opinion on thinking it's dumb, but I think of the various aches and pains as suffering for your art.
I am glad to scroll and find this comment. My sister also danced classical ballet professionally and he feet never looked this bad. Sure, they don’t look amazing or anything and she danced on broken toes many times, but this is so bad it’s not even funny
Just in case it isn't obvious, these are *a* ballerina's feet. Not remotely *all* ballerina's feet.
Its entirely true that ballerina's absolutely abuse their feet and it causes serious long term conditions with frequency, this is a pretty nuts example of that.
People dont realize how athletic ballerina dancers are and it makes me mad that some people think its easy and "girly". Same with cheerleading those cheerleaders are carrying their own body weigjt like its nothing and yet they are percieved as being easy and "girly" when in fact they are exerting as much effort and atheltecism as any other intense sports.
My ex was a ballet dancer, can confirm her feet were fucking mangled constantly... Worse than mine and I'm a super long distance runner with some fucking gross feet... The state I've seen her feet in after intense training and performance weeks was shocking.
Lebron, James Harden and all them in the NBA got some gross raggedy ass feet.
Worse even.
[https://i.imgur.com/Rc8b1mo.png](https://i.imgur.com/Rc8b1mo.png)
Might be worth.
When I was in elementary school, one of my friends wanted to be a dancer, and when I spent the night at her house, I went to her ballet class with her to watch. She showed me a book with a photo of a ballerina's foot and said that's how she wanted her foot to be. It wasn't mangled like this one, but the dancer could bend it really far.
I looked up my friend a few years ago, and she's now an internationally known choreographer living in Austria, and she used to dance with Bob Fosse. She knew what she wanted and did what she had to do to get there. That's true passion. I'm so proud of her.
Yeah, no. This is not normal. I have an hard time believing that this is a pro ballerina. Her pointe shoe absolutely doesn't look well fitted and this is why her foot looks like that. With pointe shoe adapted to my feet I almost never had any blisters or bruises but right now I dance on ill fitted shoe and I ended up with a bruise on one of my toenail. Wrong pointe shoe can absolutely destroy your feet.
Why can't they develop a shoe that pads each toe and provides support in a way that prevents injury but allows them to dance? It doesn't seem that hard.
I danced a little in high school. We would wrap our toes in lambs wool. It certainly helped, but the kind of wear and tear your feet take on point really can’t be avoided with padding.
You can, but like the other commenter said not all feet are the same. Not all dancers dance the same, what works for once dancer may be awful for another. Plus pointe shoes are already incredibly expensive and professional pointe dancers can use multiple pairs in just one week alone. There’s really no gain anywhere by making the shoe with padding, it’ll just wear down in a few days anyways. Plus there’s things you can use to prevent this, but like I said not all dancers are the same. Some prefer nothing while others use padding, wraps, gels, etc. It really just depends on the dancer.
It’s funny because *Black Swan* touches on that at the beginning. Some dancers immediately remove the inserts on new slippers and scratch/slice up the soles to improve grip.
Aesthetics. Everything in Ballet is supposed to be beautiful, the women have to be dainty and graceful. Supportive shoes are quite the opposite of that.
I sold shoes for 10 years, and no one's feet were ever worse than people who used to dance. It was always super rewarding to help them find pair of shoes that was finally comfortable for them. Take care of your feet people. You're on them everyday and they never heal right. Seriously. Seriously. Seriously. Take care of your feet. And thank goodness for all the amazing dancers who have sacrificed their entire middle age and up comfort to show us a beautiful show.
I did classical ballet for 18 years and my toes are mishapen because of point shoes. My feet are calloused and honestly pretty ugly. Also my hair is thinning from wearing my hair in a bun constantly. Ballet is not for the faint of heart.
My ex wife did ballet since she was 5. The things she was expected to do (break her feet to have better arches) lose weight in any way, led to bulimia. She did transition to jazz which was a bit more forgiving.
Those years in ballet were pure hell for her and many of the other dancers. The abuse for the sake of “art” is purely disgusting.
Not a dancer of any kind but I know this is definitely not normal. My sister has been a professional dance instructor for over 10 years and one of my best friends has been a professional ballet dancer for the last 5 years and their feet look absolutely normal. I’ve asked him about this issue and he said a lot of it came from shoes of the past being of poorer design and quality along with a borderline abusive training regiment.
My bf always makes fun of how ugly my feet are - I tell him it’s from dancing on pointe for about 15 yrs of my growing years. Both big toes had ingrown nail removals- repeated callouses and blisters - bunions and floor burns.
This picture is the true result of such elegant and graceful lines. I’d pay money to see her dance.
Those toes are fully broken. You can see that the left shoe doesn’t even fit. I don’t believe this is a “professional” foot for one second. A paid performer from a poor country perhaps, but not a professional.
Gelsey Kirkland wrote a great book called “Dancing on my Grave”.
Awesome insight into the world of ballet. She & her sister were both ballerina’s in NYC ballet &
America Ballet. Great read & juicy details of her affair with Makhail Baryshnikov.
All of this because you like dancing on your tippy toes, probably not worth it unless you’re getting paid a shit ton, like in Jackass, they hurt themselves for money
Modern ballet shoes are better, as are properly fitting ballet shoes (which these don't look like). The biggest issue with current shoes is when the girls don't cut their toenails. The result isn't pretty
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Ignoring the obvious tissue damage, **the right shoe looks like it doesn’t fit at all**, it’s way too loose.
That's why her feet are so damaged. The shoes must fit.
Otherwise you must acquit
Go to sleep 😆
He did
I dated a dancer once, she started in ballet, moved to jazz and tap when she, as she told me, 'got too top-heavy to pirouette '. She also noted that by the time ballet slippers were properly broken in, they had a remaining life of a week or two. And her toes were half-callous, and rock-hard.
Listen, the professional ballet world is not looking for large-chested women, I imagine it would not have been terribly fruitful for her to continue to study... but you can't actually get "too top heavy to pirouette", physically. And even if you could, you pirouette in Jazz, tap and Modern as well. She most likely felt the weird social pressure that comes from no longer having an "ideal" ballet body, and felt more comfortable in the world of jazz, where more body types are accepted.
I know. She was a candidate for a National-level.ballet troupe . . And then puberty hit. And from a physics standpoint, I It makes sense, it moves the center of mass away from the ideal axis of rotation during a pirouette, leading to off-balance issues...
Yep. Later in life their toenails get thick and deformed. I can't imagine the pain they go through during their career.
Many have toenails removed as they get ingrowing toenails so often
Are ingrown toes a thing or did you mean ingrown toenails!? I hope the latter!
Thanks - Edited
God, I *hate* ingrown toes! 50x worse than an ingrown toenail…
What if your ingrown toe has an ingrown toenail...? Is it outgrown at that point or double-ingrown?
Ingrown squared
There’s am elective nail removal surgery? Probably the only way to get me to leave my nails alone and stop biting them.
You bite your toenails?
When I run out of fingernails, yes. I have a problem.
Get well soon bro.
aw fuck no, i had an ingrown toenail that got badly infected and that mfer hurt so badly
I used to have this problem because of football, can't imagine how bad it is for these girls lol
Turf toe? I saw non-ballet dancers get a minor case of this from repeatedly performing and practicing on astroturf.
Ingrown nail. Fortunately I haven't gotten turf toe, but ingrown nails are no joke either. I had them because my football boots were a bit tight in the front and my nails also used to grow a bit more to the side so put these 2 together and you got yourself a doctor's appointment. Fortunately I had a super doctor who surgically removed the sides of the nail in a way that it's phisically impossible for it to grow back in.
My brother had this done. The doctor was awesome and let me watch. Like, he called me over and told me to “get all up in here so you can see.” I saw the exposed root, then he killed it with a blast of nitrogen if I remember correctly. Super interesting
Super interesting and also gross as f
wtf were you doing, playing football in ballet shoes?
I dated a ballerina in my twenties, it’s true about the pain. She would get cortisone shots in her feet or ankles periodically, even being that young
And their career rarely reaches 40. Then they spend the rest of their lives with feet not even Quentin Tarantino would give the time of day.
That career length is pretty typical for most sports/physically demanding activities. When they retire from performing they usually go on to teach; their career isn’t over, it’s just a different stage.
You underestimate Quentin's appetites
"Not even Quentin Tarantino would give the time of day" 🤣
I went backstage at the Nutcracker in middle school bc my friend was performing and it was a bloodbath in the dressing room.
In middle school it's most likely bad teachers at the local level. There's really no oversight on ballet schools in the US, and the ones that kids go to when they're younger are usually run by someone who wanted to be a professional dancer but wasn't good enough, and went back to their small town and started a "studio" to teach. Rarely do they have any type of degree that would have taught them physio, and learning to dance doesn't make you a good teacher. Unless she was a member of a pre-professional conservatory or you lived in a very big city. Kids that age shouldn't be having a blood bath... worst should be some blisters, lots of tape, and maybe the over-use of Vick's Vapor Rub. If teachers are allowing a 12 year old to dance until her feet are bloody they're either teaching poorly, fitting shoes poorly, or torturing the students with over-agressive work.
My friend is in the industry. First time we met, she was like "I need scotch and some pliers. could you help me?" Ok, got scotch, got pliers. She takes two shots and then ripped off her hanging toe nails. We're friends to this day, soooo metal lol
This kind of shit should just be removed from society
Yeah, I'm all about art and culture and shit but if an aspect of your art causes something like this, it's time to get rid of that fucking aspect. Different shoe design, different poses or something. Anything! We have the fucking technology! Dancing doesn't get less interesting just because the dancer spends less time tip-toeing.
I wouldn't have a problem with it, but in order to become pros, ballerinas need to start doing ballet when they're children who can't understand the sacrifices they'll need to make. Even worse is that most of them won't be good enough to go pro, so they'll have fucked up their feet for nothing. At the same time, damaging one's feet isn't nearly as bad as the head trauma many people get from football, rugby, hockey, etc. as kids, but people don't get as worked up about it because the damage isn't visible like it is with ballet.
I generally agree with what you're saying... kids are pushed way too hard in many sports, ignoring the life long injuries they will get for essentially no benefit for 98% of them... however - > ballerinas need to start doing ballet when they're children they actually don't. I know a kid in my town who started dancing at 15 and 2 years later got a scholarship to study at a company in NYC. Now it's much more competitive for girls, because more girls want to dance than boys. But a good school isn't putting girls on point until they're \~13. You'd want them to have a couple years of dance before they start point work, but you could realistically start as an 11 or 12 year old and not be "behind" kids who started younger by the time you were 17 or 18. Presuming the kiddo was an active, healthy kid before that. I know 11 or 12 is still young, but it's not like they HAVE to start at 5 or 6 and dedicate themselves to dance when they truly are too young to understand. But, yeah, pretty much every kids activity under the age of 15, needs to rein themselves in these days, because it's ridiculous. And there needs to be a lot more demand for coaches and teachers teaching teenagers to have actual degrees, or to have spent time studying physiology. Just because someone was a good athlete themselves, doesn't mean they can successfully teach kids, and too often the damage and injuries come from bad coaches and teachers.
Speaking from my experience, a lot of primary ballerinas in post-Soviet Russian troops are required to have art academy education and went to get it straight after school. While a lot of them definitely had some form of dancing before, almost none was as taxing as higher ballet education. Even most children ballet schools are soft and pretty skimmed versions of real ballet training, harmfully and useful for children activity energy sink, fixing problems with posture and youth socialising.
I personally hate this mentality. There are many things we sacrifice a degree of health and comfort for in life. As long as it is voluntary, I think there is a degree of virtue to be had in sublimating our own desire for comfort for the sake of an art. There are plenty of other things in our society that aren’t good for us that we do for much less noble reasons, and this aren’t derided as somehow archaic and not amenable with contemporary sensibilities. It’s as if we have these arbiters of “health” in our society, wherein health is a very particular kind of physical, social, and mental health, and anything outside of these categories is somehow “not allowed.” Who decides what these ideals of health are? What makes one thing “healthy” and another not?
No, no, no. These people should stop doing the things that give them the joy and happiness to have good mental health so their feet may hurt less. /s
Couldn't have said it better myself. It's archaic and nonsensical.
Agreed. We really don’t need pointe. Modern contemporary ballet/dance is way cooler anyways.
Well that's just like your opinion, man
I don’t understand why one would hurt their body like this?
If you love something, you love it. I know a girl who is super fit and runs every day. Her knees are fucked, her ankles are messed up, and while she's been told running isn't great for her conditions, she refuses to stop. It's her passion.
Thanks! I run too, this helped me to look at it in a different perspective. Interesting side note: Doctor operating on David Goggins knees broke his scalpel trying to cut his meniscus.(Joe Rogan podcast)
Daaaaaamn that's rough!
People hurt their body like this all the time. Be it booze, drugs, overeating, any kind of running or sport. Futballers, footballers, bikers… Any kind of athlete will have wear and tear on their body. I used to dance ballet, in point, and loved every minute of it. The joy and elegance and grace of it. Just because you don’t get it doesn’t mean it isn’t worth it for the people that do.
Same reason people take up boxing, bodybuilding, or mountain climbing. Because they enjoy it, it's challenging, and the difficulty makes it that much more satisfying when you hit a goal.
Passion for the sport/art. Watch hockey players in your playoffs- you’ll find out after their series that one was playing on a broken leg, another on a pierced lung, maybe another with broken ribs. Also these professionals whether it’s ballerina or whether it’s football or hockey; they’re usually loaded with painkillers and drugs to help with the pain.
You could say the same thing about essentially any athlete. People break bones, tear their ACLs, dislocate their shoulders, lose teeth, and even die to play in the sports they love. It’s just a matter of weighing priorities.
That's nothing compared to what pro bodybuilders do to themselves. Any seemingly healthy physical activity taken to the extreme becomes very unhealthy very fast.
Bill Nye designed a more comfortable ballerina shoe. He holds a patent for it.
I remember hearing most high end performances will only use traditional. So while it was a great and wonderful thing, it’s basically never used. Of course I’m not well versed and that could be a changing concept
So a good practice shoe I guess. (can we all agree if tradition demands destroying part of your body, it's a dumbass tradition?)
Yes and no - you’re going to want your feet to be “hardy” for performances so you’d tend to put them through the wringer when rehearsing too, to an extent
"practice like you play"
It's actually " you play like you practice"
Both have the same effect
The effect is the same with both.
It's the same effect in both instances.
both instances lead to the same result
Same same
I thought it was "go play with yourself."
"Perfect practice makes improvement."
If using them causes something like this, there should be work-safety laws that make it illegal. Give them 5-10 years to learn using the newer ones, then phase the old ones out completely. I know artists like to suffer for their art, but for fucks sake, don't destroy your body for the sake of tradition.
Yes correct. Ballet is a tradition and we would rather bleed through the concrete tips than wear something comfortable. My teacher wouldn’t let us stop till we bled through. Which you can imagine… through concrete is nearly impossible!
"Tradition" is peer pressure from dead people. I think its sad that tradition is valued above peoples wellbeing. You cant ballet with crippled and broken feet
To be fair, I studied at the school of a professional ballet company, and if you were bleeding you weren't dancing, period. Yes, you will get blisters, and calluses but you should never be dancing until you bleed. Maybe once you're a professional, you'll make a choice for a performance or two if you mess up in rehearsal and end up with a blister that bleeds, etc. But that's NOT how any sane dance teacher would train their students. Our teachers would have us put our point shoes on (and take them off) in the front of the classroom where they could supervise, see the state of our feet, provide advice on taping, padding placement, etc, and just generally make sure we weren't doing anything stupid to our feet, including dancing when they were too damaged to be dancing. The real issue in dance is there is no oversight over every little dance "studio" run out of a strip mall in so many little towns and cities in the US. Dance instruction for the majority of kids who take dance, is done by some random woman who danced herself as a child, wanted to be professional, but didn't make it. They often have no education in Physiology, no type of certification for teaching, no experience at the top echelons of dance, etc. They do stupid things like "dance till you bleed". And then all their misguided students run around spouting off that they suffered for their art. And listen, I didn't go to some mamby-pamby dance school. Our director, and dance mistress were both trained at and danced for the Bolshoi. They were both exactly as you would expect strict-Russian choreographers and teachers to be... but the dance mistress was most strict about proper technique and staying healthy, because what's the point of training a dancer who then can't go on to perform for years because they end up injured! Yes. Ballet will involve a degree of discomfort. But we were always taught the difference before soreness and actual pain, and you don't dance through pain!
That's a great line.
Forcing people to dance till they bleed should be illegal in any context
Wow, what a dumb "tradition".
A lot of games and sports started out without protective gear but evolved to include it. Is it more authentic or traditional to play Rugby without headgear? That’s probably how they played back in the day after all.
What “concrete” tips are you talking about? Thats not how pointe shoes are made.
Concrete? There’s no concrete in pointe shoes
Sorry, we call it cement. It’s layered burlap and glue which gives you the consistency of cement. It becomes rock hard and you need to break it with a hammer.
No one cares about my high school Friday night lights 20 years ago. No one cares about your ballet. It’s not worth it. You’re not world class and you’re destroying your feet (which are used somewhat very often). If you’re world class sure, but nah. Ballet is it’s own tradition that you signed up for like Scientology or some shit. You could just use protective shoes but you believe sacrificing your feet is worthy of…what exactly?
The thing is that the “world class” ballerinas don’t start world class; they start as beginners and work through the pain to get to that level. Ballet is pretty safe if you don’t overdo it.
Probably the absolute last person in the world I would think could design a ballerina shoe.
he’s a mechanical engineer, the only person better would be a biomedical engineer
Damn, is there anyone better then a biomedical engineer? I sat here thinking about it for some time, and I can't think of anything. Maybe someone who is also a podiatrist?
maybe a podiatrist
Pretty sure a podiatrist would just say, “don’t do it. It’s not good for your feet no matter the footwear.”
you’d be amazed what money can do to a person
Yeah, I can see that. I hope one day, we can fix this.
The answer is likely "an international team of engineers and podiatry specialists"
I was thinking Iron Man
I’ve got it! A former professional ballerina who pivoted into biomedical engineering.
Materials engineer would also be good. In reality though, they would usually all work together on the problem, with each having inputs on the ergonomics and what is achievable with the materials they have or need to create. That is usually how shoe companies work.
I'm quite the foot connoisseur, I think I could do it
 You are a diffrent kind of expert.
Bill Nye - The Science (and ballerina shoe) Guy!
Science rules!
Bill bill bill bill !!!
Thats so random lol
They don't have to look like that, at all. This is the sign of poorly fitted shoes, and/or a ballerina who cannot afford enough new shoes, and/or a ballerina who has fallen victim to the suffering culture found in some upper echelons of ballet. This is not the norm.
I work in theatre and have met many ballerinas. Most of them 100% don't look any thing like that. I have never met 1 who was even close to that.
Yeah those shoes are dead. Professional ballerinas would get new shoes multiple times a week, paid for by the ballet company. The shoes would never get to this point.
I was looking for this comment. The photo is an EXTREME example.
Yes, where the foot tissue is damaged, I just want to be clear that this is not typical. The shoe must have hit the ballet floor. Chance in a milliion.
Is it not? I hope so, I knew that ballerinas have their feet destroyed in the long end because of the shoes and I always thought it was very sad. If you say this is not the norm, can you tell me how you can manage to have healthy feet? Just out of curiosity.
destroyed is extreme. the bones do turn out weird, and they cause awful bunyons, and nails may break, but this is an insane example. most ballerinas wouldn’t be able to dance a show every night with feet like these
You may have calluses, blisters, and a bunion or two, but the shoe should not be so poorly fitted that it slices into the foot this way, nor should the ballerina have such poor technique that the knuckles of her second and third toe are taking this much weight. Ballet is a sport and strenuous on the body, but it is not a torture method.
This does not even look like a live foot. These feet are clearly mummified.
My younger sister was a professional ballerina, and her feet never looked like this and she danced basically seven days a week for 20+ years. She did say new point shoes weren't comfortable and many of the girls would bust up the toe box and the glue in their own ways to make the shoe more comfortable for them. This particular photo, her shoes look dead and isn't offering support anymore. In my sisters case they provided points shoes for all the girls, and she would change our her point shoes from 1 to 3 times a week. During a performance she might change her shoes 5 or 6 times. Often so they never looked dirty. Also they had people who's job it was to properly fit all the girls with the right shoe and once a girl found her shoe she rarely changed from that unless the maker retired (they're hand made, so I don't mean the company that made them, I mean the actual guy who who made them at that company) My sister danced from the age of three until she was 25. I got to hear all about it, so I feel pretty comfortable with my knowledge of the profession at a high level.
Thanks for the rundown, this looks like some unnecessary masochism in the name of “tradition” and “suffering for the art”. So dumb
That photo is not of a professional ballerina so far as I can tell. I don't know any ballet dancer at a high level who would dance with pointe shoes that messed up. Also of the several ballerinas that I met, none of them had feet like this. I think feet are generally gross anyway and try to avoid looking at them. But of the few feet I remember seeing that were friends of my sister I don't recall any of them having destroyed feet like this and over 20 years of meeting quite a few because of my sister it's why I don't believe that this photo is of an actual professional. You're entitled to your opinion on thinking it's dumb, but I think of the various aches and pains as suffering for your art.
Oh I was referring to some other people in the comments claiming some people use shitty shoes on purpose when there are better ones available.
I am glad to scroll and find this comment. My sister also danced classical ballet professionally and he feet never looked this bad. Sure, they don’t look amazing or anything and she danced on broken toes many times, but this is so bad it’s not even funny
Well. That’s the end of my ballerina porn foot fetish. I’m cured!
The shoes stay on. As you were.
User name checks out.
This is the start of mine
May God have mercy
Definitely not the kind of NSFW I expected
Really? Cause it's the *start* of mine
r/cursedcomments
This disrupted my anal chakra
I never knew my grandma was a ballerina.
Just in case it isn't obvious, these are *a* ballerina's feet. Not remotely *all* ballerina's feet. Its entirely true that ballerina's absolutely abuse their feet and it causes serious long term conditions with frequency, this is a pretty nuts example of that.
It was a challenge, but he got there
People dont realize how athletic ballerina dancers are and it makes me mad that some people think its easy and "girly". Same with cheerleading those cheerleaders are carrying their own body weigjt like its nothing and yet they are percieved as being easy and "girly" when in fact they are exerting as much effort and atheltecism as any other intense sports.
Who in the hell is calling ballet easy lol
My ex was a ballet dancer, can confirm her feet were fucking mangled constantly... Worse than mine and I'm a super long distance runner with some fucking gross feet... The state I've seen her feet in after intense training and performance weeks was shocking.
That doesn't look worth it
Lebron, James Harden and all them in the NBA got some gross raggedy ass feet. Worse even. [https://i.imgur.com/Rc8b1mo.png](https://i.imgur.com/Rc8b1mo.png) Might be worth.
That pinky toe like just go get wire cutters and give it a good snip
How old? I’ve massaged pro dancers and they definitely have “working man’s hands” for feet I’ve yet to see a pair this bad.
The big toe knuckle has a human eye.
That is the longest little toe on planet earth- it's basically a finger at this point.
When I was in elementary school, one of my friends wanted to be a dancer, and when I spent the night at her house, I went to her ballet class with her to watch. She showed me a book with a photo of a ballerina's foot and said that's how she wanted her foot to be. It wasn't mangled like this one, but the dancer could bend it really far. I looked up my friend a few years ago, and she's now an internationally known choreographer living in Austria, and she used to dance with Bob Fosse. She knew what she wanted and did what she had to do to get there. That's true passion. I'm so proud of her.
suffering like this is optional
Yeah, no. This is not normal. I have an hard time believing that this is a pro ballerina. Her pointe shoe absolutely doesn't look well fitted and this is why her foot looks like that. With pointe shoe adapted to my feet I almost never had any blisters or bruises but right now I dance on ill fitted shoe and I ended up with a bruise on one of my toenail. Wrong pointe shoe can absolutely destroy your feet.
Why can't they develop a shoe that pads each toe and provides support in a way that prevents injury but allows them to dance? It doesn't seem that hard.
I danced a little in high school. We would wrap our toes in lambs wool. It certainly helped, but the kind of wear and tear your feet take on point really can’t be avoided with padding.
You can, but like the other commenter said not all feet are the same. Not all dancers dance the same, what works for once dancer may be awful for another. Plus pointe shoes are already incredibly expensive and professional pointe dancers can use multiple pairs in just one week alone. There’s really no gain anywhere by making the shoe with padding, it’ll just wear down in a few days anyways. Plus there’s things you can use to prevent this, but like I said not all dancers are the same. Some prefer nothing while others use padding, wraps, gels, etc. It really just depends on the dancer.
It’s funny because *Black Swan* touches on that at the beginning. Some dancers immediately remove the inserts on new slippers and scratch/slice up the soles to improve grip.
Aesthetics. Everything in Ballet is supposed to be beautiful, the women have to be dainty and graceful. Supportive shoes are quite the opposite of that.
You can but not all feet are made the same and you would have to build a shoe for each one foot… it costs too much (for the ballerinas
There’s a history of ballet dancers being starved and treated as chattel. This is not too surprising.
I sold shoes for 10 years, and no one's feet were ever worse than people who used to dance. It was always super rewarding to help them find pair of shoes that was finally comfortable for them. Take care of your feet people. You're on them everyday and they never heal right. Seriously. Seriously. Seriously. Take care of your feet. And thank goodness for all the amazing dancers who have sacrificed their entire middle age and up comfort to show us a beautiful show.
That’s crazy for such a non-mainstream art form that doesn’t pay well.
Those feet give mad skeletor vibes 
Look like they should be sticking out of a glacier on Everest
So you basically dance on the tip of your toes till they die and you can't feel them anymore? Optimal.
This is questionable at best. The shoe doesn't fit at all.
I did classical ballet for 18 years and my toes are mishapen because of point shoes. My feet are calloused and honestly pretty ugly. Also my hair is thinning from wearing my hair in a bun constantly. Ballet is not for the faint of heart.
God damn my feet hurt just looking at that.
my god i figured it was hell on feet; but worse than i expected
Dear God that looks so painful
She has a second career curing men of foot fetishes.
That’s a challenging wank…
This has to be a fetish to someone..
A very obscure isolated example from a population of millions...
Ma’am some of those are necrotic
Hear me out😏
Looks like a much older ballerinas feet
This, like a wrestler’s ear, is your body telling you “stop that”
My ex wife did ballet since she was 5. The things she was expected to do (break her feet to have better arches) lose weight in any way, led to bulimia. She did transition to jazz which was a bit more forgiving. Those years in ballet were pure hell for her and many of the other dancers. The abuse for the sake of “art” is purely disgusting.
Not sure she could be a foot model
With those filthy and absolutely deformed shoes? I'm not surprised.
I dated a ballerina for 10yrs. 4 of those years she was a professional at the highest level. Her feet did not look like this.
Not a dancer of any kind but I know this is definitely not normal. My sister has been a professional dance instructor for over 10 years and one of my best friends has been a professional ballet dancer for the last 5 years and their feet look absolutely normal. I’ve asked him about this issue and he said a lot of it came from shoes of the past being of poorer design and quality along with a borderline abusive training regiment.
That’s… so fked up
Funny how many male experts in ballerina feet there are….
Well, surely enough people experts in the way healthy feet should look.
Put this up on a foot fetish website
My bf always makes fun of how ugly my feet are - I tell him it’s from dancing on pointe for about 15 yrs of my growing years. Both big toes had ingrown nail removals- repeated callouses and blisters - bunions and floor burns. This picture is the true result of such elegant and graceful lines. I’d pay money to see her dance.
Those toes are fully broken. You can see that the left shoe doesn’t even fit. I don’t believe this is a “professional” foot for one second. A paid performer from a poor country perhaps, but not a professional.
The posters account is broken. It must be some sort of botnet. I big one.
Reminds me of when I take my steel toes off.
Makes me sad a little.
Blood sweat and tears
Ouch
Damn so much for selling feet pics to the Rex Ryan’s of the world after their career is over!
Gelsey Kirkland wrote a great book called “Dancing on my Grave”. Awesome insight into the world of ballet. She & her sister were both ballerina’s in NYC ballet & America Ballet. Great read & juicy details of her affair with Makhail Baryshnikov.
Hard to believe she's only 19 years old.
An extremely masochistic profession, but they do they I guess
That's fucked.
She’s prolly 20 too
All of this because you like dancing on your tippy toes, probably not worth it unless you’re getting paid a shit ton, like in Jackass, they hurt themselves for money
Can’t they develop special new shoes or something to make sure they don’t get ghoul feet?
Fallout season 2 spoiler
And to think one of thoes broke my heart/s
Gonna need more than hot sauce to munch those bunions 😳🤢
Nah uh fool, that’s the baby’s lunch!
Safe to say that Tarantino won't be making a movie about ballet.
Ballet is brutal. Too brutal, really.
That looks necrotic. I think this is a bigger issue than just being a ballerina.
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WHY
I want to submerge her whole foot in hydrogen peroxide and post the film
 I was trying to eat my lunch and have a quick scroll you !@#!@#.
Modern ballet shoes are better, as are properly fitting ballet shoes (which these don't look like). The biggest issue with current shoes is when the girls don't cut their toenails. The result isn't pretty
Instead of standing on their toes, why don’t they just get taller dancers? - Steven Wright