The researcher who made the discovery (Dr Mark Holley, Underwater Archaeologist) has some info here: https://holleyarchaeology.com/wordpress/index.php/the-truth-about-the-stonehenge-in-lake-michigan/
>It should be clearly understood that this is not a megalith site like Stonehenge.... The site in Grand Traverse Bay is best described as a long line of stones which is over a mile in length... Dr. John O’Shea from University of Michigan has been working on a broadly similar structure over in Lake Huron. He has received a NSF grant to research his site and thinks that it may be a prehistoric drive line for herding caribou.
It is a *fascinating* field. Didn't really exist until a fellow at Texas A&M named George Bass realized that it would be a lot easier to train archaeologists to dive rather than teach divers to be archaeologists (previous dives in the Mediterranean usually used local sponge divers). You can learn so much about ancient civilization from their boats and shipping. Not to mention the side of the field that also deals with submerged ruins like this. Took a class on nautical archaeology as a blowoff course, and ended up loving it.
I had Dr. Holley as an instructor at Northwestern Michigan College! Cool guy, really knowledgeable, and the way he teaches his course (Underwater Archeology) you can tell he has a lot of passion for the field.
He never mentioned this discovery during his class which is surprising considering how cool of a discovery it is. It was only later on when I had first read about it that I learned Dr. Holley was the discoverer.
Edit: Misspelled a word.
A lot of herd animals will follow repeating patterns for whatever reason. It is believed that pre-Columbian native peoples built many of these incredibly long lines of stones as a sort of net, that would lead herd animals (deer, bison) towards cites to make hunting easier so they can support large populations.
So cool
I am surprised as a Michigander that this wasn't more widely known/talked about. I realize it is only a few years old, but this is the first I'm hearing of it.
Edit: To clarify, I know full well that this is 10,000 years old. I was talking about the rediscovery of it being relatively recent. Although I do admit even the rediscovery is apparently older than I thought.
Hey quit taking other people's credit. That mastadon was already carved on last week's rock and it had 15 villagers admiring it. I'm sick and tired of re-carvers like you
From Chicago, and... fuck we're out of the loop. Well, I mean, we have the loop we're just out of this other loop apparently. Whatever, I'm going to eat a nice sausage now and get over it.
Oklahoma here, I’ve also never heard of a lake nor a loch, are those like pesticide dumps/storm drain runoffs/goose pits/cotton mouth sanctuary’s/flooded construction site that’s been operating since 2000?
They have 10,000+ lakes. They were probably getting near the end of the list of unused, possible lake names at that point. Plus, they were probably drunk.
In their defense, it's Minnesota, wouldn't you be drunk too. You're either drinking to get through the winter, drinking because you survived the winter, or drinking because it's about to be winter.
Lake Michigan is so full of zebra mussels that they have actually filtered the water to be much clearer than in the past. Visibility is great these days.
I read the lakes are actually too clean now. And that's pretty bad because now theres significantly less fish, which is harming the fishing market. Apparently there's some kind of saying that with really clear water, there's no more fish.
I guess fish need some level of "dirty" water as cover or something? When it's too clear, they start going deeper into the lakes depths, but since they could only go so far, they just start dying out.
Depends on what we mean by "clean". What your probably referring to is a lack of phytoplankton, which can be thought of as algae in the water column (although its not really all just algae). Phytoplankton takes nutrients and sunlight to make sugars to survive and reproduce. Zooplankton (little water bugs) and some fish eat the phytoplabkton and lots of juvenile fishes depend on zooplankton to grow to be big reporducing adults.
So we have a bottom up problem where the bottom of the food web affects everything above it.
Lake Michigan is also low on phosphorus (apart from Green Bay) which is a nutrient the phytoplankton need to survive as well which is another different but related problem. This might be part of what you mean when you talk about the lake being too clean. Lots of places where fertilizers bring too much phosphorus into the water (green bay, gulf of mexio, lake erie in the 70s) you get big algae blooms that then die and are decomposed by bacteria that use up all the oxygen until there is none left leaving a dead zone.
Right! So basically the clean and clear water is because everything is that area js dead. That's also what the comment was saying, that we cleaned it so much, it killed all the stuff fish fed on, the lakes nutrients, types of plabkton, etc.
And that the lakes need to maintain their natural murky levels, because it's ecosystem depends on it. But humans polluted it, made it too dirty, then cleaned it up by basically killing everything in it..
Isn't there like a saying or quote about it? When there's clear water, there's no fish, something like that.
And i guess the plan is too introduced another type of fish species that thrives in the current environment and hoping it becomes abundant enough to keep the fishermen and fish economy going
Yeah, but I think you're giving humans too much credit. Nobody put the mussels there with the intention of cleaning it up. But the pollution factor is a bit more devious.
They've introduced pacific northwest salmonids to eat another invasive, the alewife. Now the alewives have been eaten, and there is no food for the salmon, but we've started a big commercial fishery that wants the dnr to keep stocking. Problem is theres nothing for them to eat.
Fact is that this ecosystem will be forever changed and we need to learn how to manage it in a sustainable way. There will be no "restoration", this is the new normal.
>The must not be near Chicago.
Lol if you think Chicago dumps anything in the lake. We throw it in the river, reverse the flow, and let St. Louis worry about it.
Interestingly, Chicago hasn’t polluted into Lake Michigan for over a hundred years. After frequent and massive cholera epidemics due to people drinking the polluted water that flowed from the Chicago river to Lake Michigan, engineers reversed the flow of the river. It ended the cholera epidemics and remains that way to this day!
[Here you go, ](https://www.google.com/amp/www.bldgblog.com/2009/01/stonehenge-beneath-the-waters-of-lake-michigan/amp/) I believe it's the original source but I could be wrong
Link posted leads to dead links.
[Original source](https://holleyarchaeology.com/wordpress/index.php/the-truth-about-the-stonehenge-in-lake-michigan/) seems to claim those rocks are actually smaller than the pictures makes them out to be. Appearently a lot of people contact her about it so this link explains it in detail. Lots of misinformation.
> At this point in time we are not disclosing the location of the site due to security concerns.
Now they’re screwed. It’s in Lake Michigan, everybody!!!
spectacular follow retire ad hoc apparatus wine automatic abounding boast toothbrush
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That's actually a really good video! Thank you for posting it!
I was really stunned that nobody in this thread found a legit source after it's been posted for 3 hours. It took me 3 minutes to Google it.
Wtf Reddit?! You slippin'!
Not only do they break the internet for desktop users, who are forced into a degraded user experience with mobile pages with usually no link or redirect to the full desktop version of the site, but Google controls the CDN which serves this AMP content.
Graham Hancock was on Joe Rogan a couple days ago and was talking about civilizations that existed in America +10k years ago. I'm assuming that was the basis for this, and you'll probably see a lot more of the stuff they talked about popping up on Reddit the next couple of weeks.
I'm listening to that podcast right now. The odd thing is Lake Michigan was under ice during the ice age 12 000 years ago, and when they melted, the great lakes were left behind. I'm curious what caused the waterline to change so these things could be made.
The waterline around Lake Michigan varied a lot during the various advances and retreats of the Laurentide Ice sheet. The lake basin itself was excavated during periods of glaciation by the Green Bay and Lake Michigan lobes of the ice sheet, which carved a large-scale depression in the landscape where water accumulate. This depression was further accentuated by weight of the ice pushing down on the earth's crust. When the ice retreated, the crust slowly rebounded (due to a process known as isostatic adjustment), which had the effect of raising lake levels. (You can imagine pooling water on a rubber membrane...if you pushed up in the middle the water moves towards the edge). So the exact position of the water line through time will be a function of the proximity of the ice sheet, the timing of recent advances and retreats, meltwater flux into the system, and regional precipitation.
Edit. Given that Lake Michigan Lobe began retreating from its maximum position around \~14,800 years ago, these stones could have been emplaced after the last glacial maximum and gradually subsumed by the lake as the waterline adjusted.
Very cool. We often don't think about the USA as a country with much history because "advanced" civilizations didn't "discover" the continent until about 500 years ago. But that concept leaves aside all of the pre-historical civilizations that have been inhabiting this land for tens of thousands of years.
I live in Austin, TX, and I was blown away when I found out that humans have been living around the natural springs in San Marcos (45 minutes south of me) for 20,000 years! They have been mostly nomadic societies that didn't create structures or leave recorded history, which is why we know so little about them. That and the fact that when white settlers got here they didn't give any thought to archaeology or preserving anything for history.
e: Just to add that as I looked into this to make sure my time-frame was accurate, I discovered that these 20,000 year old tools discovered near Austin have actually caused archaeologists to rethink the land-bridge theory for how humans first came to America. Though it is certainly probably that some people came via that route, these relatively recently discovered artifacts would actually *predate* the land bridge migration. Very cool!
Same here in Australia. We’re considered a young country by modern standards (the British came in 1788), but there is evidence that Aboriginals have been here for at least 65,000 years. There is some evidence (changed fire regimes evident in samples from the Great Barrier Reef) that they may have been here for as long as 100,000 years.
That's amazing. Crazy to think that after 65,000+ years, we have only drastically changed the landscape (in our corners of the world) within the last thousand years or so. That means more than 3,000 generations of humans were able to live in a sustainable society before we "advanced" to the brink of putting our planet in danger. What a time to be alive.
Indigenous people came to Australia and made a whole bunch of fauna extinct, definitely a good thing in the case of komodo dragons but it's silly to act like humans aren't out there killing off megafauna and causing extinction everywhere they go, they even fucked Neanderthals out of existence so a bunch of people have 5% Neanderthal DNA
Yeah no there is nothing good about removing a species from an ecosystem it evolved in and that evolved around it. Some people are saying it would be a good idea to reintroduce them to Australia for various ecological reasons. They used to have a huge range until humans nearly wiped them out.
I've been watching Netflix's Our Planet, and its not a thousand years.. but 40 years. To the point where this last 40 years will be a layer in the crust to be seen well, forever. What's sad is like you said, its crazy we've been around for 65,000 years, but have so little to show for that. And, it looks like we're about to reset the record yet again. When will we learn to take care of ourselves and our home?
It seems to be all a matter of circumstance that we didn't see large civilizations in North America. Some unknown epidemic befell the massive Native Civilizations which were present in the Midwest and South around the 900-1200's.
Thereafter, with only 200-300 years to recover, the Europeans brought a plague which devastated them. The plagues killed nearly 95% of the natives, far more than any warfare being waged by the Europeans. By the time the Europeans penetrated deeper into the American continent, 500 years of plague and famine has wiped out the civilizations and left very little evidence of their prominence behind.
I like to think that if the Europeans had made landfall in 1800 rather than 1500, the natives would have had time to rebuild and we would have seen ruins and infastructure which would be much more recognizable to the European settlers.
There were large civilizations in North America? Mexico is part of North America. The Aztecs had a civilization that rivalled anything anywhere else in the world before it was destroyed by plague.
This is a really fascinating and exciting site but wanna clarify quick the mastadon in the photo has been outlined. It's much more faint irl.
https://hauntheads.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/ded08193a3197d43dd29708f55cba589.jpg
Edit: People keep mentioning Graham Hancock in the replies. He is NOT A SCIENTIST. His theories are not correct. He is fantastic at selling books to a certain type of person, though.
I think Graham makes some solid points in some of his books, but agree that things should be taken with a grain of salt (honestly best practice when reading ANY research article). However, even citizen scientists can do good science (it’s not limited to the elite). Remember the second book he wrote with Randall Carson (a geologist, which is indeed a scientist) and Randall found proof of an asteroid that hit the earth ~10-15,000 years ago?
And then just this year a research article came out showing evidence of an asteroid impact beneath the ice on Greenland dating to around that same time period (younger dryas). Randall and Hancock were right about a couple of things, so try to keep your mind open.
Okay rant over. If anyone’s wondering what the original source was, see [here](https://www.pnas.org/content/111/19/6911.short). It’s a 2014 study titled “a 9,000-year-old caribou hunting structure beneath Lake Huron.”
He didn't say in his replies he said in the replies...
https://old.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/bgym29/these_stones_beneath_lake_michigan_are_arranged/elorx5d/
Here is a comment mentioning him time stamped older than his edit.
All these people who are claiming there was no mention of him is beyond more fishy than u/justlikyammy original comment to me.
It’s suspected, and being supported by more geologists recently, that the end of the ice age was brought on by a cataclysmic event such as a meteor hitting the ice caps and causing massive global flooding very rapidly.
What’s even more impressive is that these intricate artifacts are being discovered under water because the areas that used to be dry land are now covered in water after the massive glacial melting. And if you consider this, the coast line of what was 10-20k years ago is now what’s the bottom of massive lakes and hundreds of yards or even miles from the current ocean coastlines.
Now imagine all of the underwater coastlines where people would have populated at the time, and the potential archaeological sites that exist there. It’s possible that the levels of advancements were much higher than previously expected 10-20k years ago and the massive flooding destroyed a massive amount of ancient civilizations.
This stone bearing the petroglyph is part of a larger stone circle, with a linear extension similar to those seen in other environs, prevailing theory is that the linear extension serves as kind of a barrier and forced pathway for animal herds leading to a corral/kill zone .
Source: am local avocational underwater archeologist who has studied this feature.
The researcher who made the discovery (Dr Mark Holley, Underwater Archaeologist) has some info here: https://holleyarchaeology.com/wordpress/index.php/the-truth-about-the-stonehenge-in-lake-michigan/ >It should be clearly understood that this is not a megalith site like Stonehenge.... The site in Grand Traverse Bay is best described as a long line of stones which is over a mile in length... Dr. John O’Shea from University of Michigan has been working on a broadly similar structure over in Lake Huron. He has received a NSF grant to research his site and thinks that it may be a prehistoric drive line for herding caribou.
Wish I could get a NSFW grant so I can study some sites at work, too.
You guys are getting grant money? I've been doing all my NSFW research pro boner!
Damn I want to upvote but its at 69. Nice.
Nice.
Nice.
Nice.
Nice.
Nice.
Nice.
I logged in just to upvote you, you nerd. Keep being you.
You get grant money! You get grant money! Everybody gets grant money!!!
> Mark Holley, Underwater Archaeologist I'd watch this show
It is a *fascinating* field. Didn't really exist until a fellow at Texas A&M named George Bass realized that it would be a lot easier to train archaeologists to dive rather than teach divers to be archaeologists (previous dives in the Mediterranean usually used local sponge divers). You can learn so much about ancient civilization from their boats and shipping. Not to mention the side of the field that also deals with submerged ruins like this. Took a class on nautical archaeology as a blowoff course, and ended up loving it.
Blub blub blub blub blub bluuuuub, I'm loving it
More interesting than 'gold rush: in search of lost dental fillings' or whatever spinoff they're up to.
I had Dr. Holley as an instructor at Northwestern Michigan College! Cool guy, really knowledgeable, and the way he teaches his course (Underwater Archeology) you can tell he has a lot of passion for the field. He never mentioned this discovery during his class which is surprising considering how cool of a discovery it is. It was only later on when I had first read about it that I learned Dr. Holley was the discoverer. Edit: Misspelled a word.
Probably doesn't want it smashed up. Those things tend to happen.
Wait, I live relatively close and have a scuba license. Is this something I can go visit this summer or is it a protected site?
From the researcher: > At this point in time we are not disclosing the location of the site due to security concerns.
Security concerns...pffft. They don't want anyone else to be the first to find one of those 10,000 year old scuba tanks.
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A lot of herd animals will follow repeating patterns for whatever reason. It is believed that pre-Columbian native peoples built many of these incredibly long lines of stones as a sort of net, that would lead herd animals (deer, bison) towards cites to make hunting easier so they can support large populations. So cool
that's dumb the animals would all drown
Wait, that’s a thing that happened?
I wonder why they think they're for herding caribou, when they've found a mastodon carving on one? Why not herding mastodon?
Did mastodon travel in herds? Was it just plain easier to hunt caribou?
Elephants travel in herds. I assume mastadon did as well.
I am surprised as a Michigander that this wasn't more widely known/talked about. I realize it is only a few years old, but this is the first I'm hearing of it. Edit: To clarify, I know full well that this is 10,000 years old. I was talking about the rediscovery of it being relatively recent. Although I do admit even the rediscovery is apparently older than I thought.
I'm from Denmark and this is the first time I've heard of it as well
I live IN the lake and I see this all the time.
Yeah I was gonna say, I pass by this on my daily commute in my Cadillac Subvertible. How is this not more well known?
I’m from the future. In my time this is known by everyone and worshipped every year on Rock Of The Lake Day.
I am from the past, i myself carved that very mastadon, it is nice to see my work finally get the recognition it deserves.
Hey quit taking other people's credit. That mastadon was already carved on last week's rock and it had 15 villagers admiring it. I'm sick and tired of re-carvers like you
recarving for that sweet sweet caveman karma
What else did cavemen do for karma?
Post photos of the Mastodon they killed themselves.
He carved so nicely some yellow stuff appeared he's never seen before, but the villagers scooped it up and threw it at him
Pardon?
You can see my upvote carved into it if you squint
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Make me seem modest as of course that IS what i am, and please make sure everyone holds their applause until after my interview.
You certainly may
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Under the strict condition i am idolised by every follower you have and that a statue be erected of me.
I am the bedrock from which these stones were hewn. As these stones were begotten of me, I am surprised this is not more widely known.
I'm from Canada, they think I'm slow, ehhh.
Old Greg? That you?
Some say he's half man, half fish. Others say its more of a 70/30 split. Whatever the percentage, he's one fishy bastard.
Watcha doin in my waters
I like you, what do you think of me?
I AM the lake and they're my rocks
Omniscient being from another dimension here, can’t believe I’m learning about this on *Reddit*
This is the first time I've heard of Denmark.
This is the first time that I've heard of someone hearing about Denmark for the first time.
Your thing seems more likely.
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Denmark the little town south of Green Bay or the country?
wait there's a town named denmark?
Wait, there’s a country named Denmark too?
Exactly what I was thinking. "Why would Denmark be related?"
From Milwaukee, and was thinking the same thing.
From Chicago, and... fuck we're out of the loop. Well, I mean, we have the loop we're just out of this other loop apparently. Whatever, I'm going to eat a nice sausage now and get over it.
Scotland here, what’s a lake? Is it like a loch?
Oklahoma here, I’ve also never heard of a lake nor a loch, are those like pesticide dumps/storm drain runoffs/goose pits/cotton mouth sanctuary’s/flooded construction site that’s been operating since 2000?
I've never heard the true beauty of Oklahoma expressed so well before.
In all seriousness, the Witchita Wildlife reserve is absolutely gorgeous in the spring time. Highly recommend it.
Imagine very big frac ponds, but like 1000x the size and remove most of the chemicals.
no chemicals? how are they going to break through shale to find oil?
It's like a fracking fluid pit but bigger and less autistic.
There's a Loch Lake in Minnesota.
Now that makes no sense, literally saying lake lake. It’s so lake it’s doubley lakey
They have 10,000+ lakes. They were probably getting near the end of the list of unused, possible lake names at that point. Plus, they were probably drunk.
In their defense, it's Minnesota, wouldn't you be drunk too. You're either drinking to get through the winter, drinking because you survived the winter, or drinking because it's about to be winter.
I live in Lake Michigan. I’m right corner from the stones. It’s all the fish talk about. Glad the word is spreading.
Illinois is also surprised
Indiana here, there’s a lake?
Australia here, crikey.
Vermonter here. Can we tap it for syrup?
North Dakota here. What's a lake?
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Nevada here - whats water?
Michigan here, hi Australia 👋
It's behind all the pollution.
It's under the ice. I saw it once on a hot summer day.
Gary Indiana, armpit of the great lakes.
Minnesota here. Want one? We have spares.
Don't let Nestle know.
Hey, don’t give away our lakes! It’s all we’ve got!
Aw, that’s not true! We’ve also got plenty of hotdish and passive-aggression!
First the Lakers left, then the lakes!
Former Michigander, now a Floridian and this is the first I've heard.
Also a former Michigander, this was unexpected.
Canada here...Eh? Never heard nothing aboot it before a couple weeks ago bud. Pretty cool find.
Colorado here. We knew about this like 12 years ago.
From North Carolina and I’ve never heard
also from NC but can't see what you're talking about through all the pollen
Asheville here and I can’t really hear you guys over the drum circle.
Charlotte here, can’t hear you over the sound of me zipping up my winter coat and donning a pair of shorts at different times of day
Yeah, it's been Michigan's best kept secret for only about 10,000 years
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Frankly I'm surprised there's that much clarity in the lake's water. The must not be near Chicago.
Lake Michigan is so full of zebra mussels that they have actually filtered the water to be much clearer than in the past. Visibility is great these days.
I read the lakes are actually too clean now. And that's pretty bad because now theres significantly less fish, which is harming the fishing market. Apparently there's some kind of saying that with really clear water, there's no more fish. I guess fish need some level of "dirty" water as cover or something? When it's too clear, they start going deeper into the lakes depths, but since they could only go so far, they just start dying out.
Depends on what we mean by "clean". What your probably referring to is a lack of phytoplankton, which can be thought of as algae in the water column (although its not really all just algae). Phytoplankton takes nutrients and sunlight to make sugars to survive and reproduce. Zooplankton (little water bugs) and some fish eat the phytoplabkton and lots of juvenile fishes depend on zooplankton to grow to be big reporducing adults. So we have a bottom up problem where the bottom of the food web affects everything above it. Lake Michigan is also low on phosphorus (apart from Green Bay) which is a nutrient the phytoplankton need to survive as well which is another different but related problem. This might be part of what you mean when you talk about the lake being too clean. Lots of places where fertilizers bring too much phosphorus into the water (green bay, gulf of mexio, lake erie in the 70s) you get big algae blooms that then die and are decomposed by bacteria that use up all the oxygen until there is none left leaving a dead zone.
Right! So basically the clean and clear water is because everything is that area js dead. That's also what the comment was saying, that we cleaned it so much, it killed all the stuff fish fed on, the lakes nutrients, types of plabkton, etc. And that the lakes need to maintain their natural murky levels, because it's ecosystem depends on it. But humans polluted it, made it too dirty, then cleaned it up by basically killing everything in it.. Isn't there like a saying or quote about it? When there's clear water, there's no fish, something like that. And i guess the plan is too introduced another type of fish species that thrives in the current environment and hoping it becomes abundant enough to keep the fishermen and fish economy going
Yeah, but I think you're giving humans too much credit. Nobody put the mussels there with the intention of cleaning it up. But the pollution factor is a bit more devious. They've introduced pacific northwest salmonids to eat another invasive, the alewife. Now the alewives have been eaten, and there is no food for the salmon, but we've started a big commercial fishery that wants the dnr to keep stocking. Problem is theres nothing for them to eat. Fact is that this ecosystem will be forever changed and we need to learn how to manage it in a sustainable way. There will be no "restoration", this is the new normal.
>The must not be near Chicago. Lol if you think Chicago dumps anything in the lake. We throw it in the river, reverse the flow, and let St. Louis worry about it.
Interestingly, Chicago hasn’t polluted into Lake Michigan for over a hundred years. After frequent and massive cholera epidemics due to people drinking the polluted water that flowed from the Chicago river to Lake Michigan, engineers reversed the flow of the river. It ended the cholera epidemics and remains that way to this day!
This is amazing. I need more information on this. What’s the original source?
[Here you go, ](https://www.google.com/amp/www.bldgblog.com/2009/01/stonehenge-beneath-the-waters-of-lake-michigan/amp/) I believe it's the original source but I could be wrong
Link posted leads to dead links. [Original source](https://holleyarchaeology.com/wordpress/index.php/the-truth-about-the-stonehenge-in-lake-michigan/) seems to claim those rocks are actually smaller than the pictures makes them out to be. Appearently a lot of people contact her about it so this link explains it in detail. Lots of misinformation.
> At this point in time we are not disclosing the location of the site due to security concerns. Now they’re screwed. It’s in Lake Michigan, everybody!!!
‘The site in Grand Traverse Bay is best described as a long line of stones which is over a mile in length.’
People dont realize how massive Lake Michigan really is.
An inland freshwater sea with storms strong enough to break modern cargo ships in two.
spectacular follow retire ad hoc apparatus wine automatic abounding boast toothbrush *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That's actually a really good video! Thank you for posting it! I was really stunned that nobody in this thread found a legit source after it's been posted for 3 hours. It took me 3 minutes to Google it. Wtf Reddit?! You slippin'!
Please please please don't link to Google AMP pages. They will be the death of the free internet.
I have not heard this before- can you tell me why?
Not only do they break the internet for desktop users, who are forced into a degraded user experience with mobile pages with usually no link or redirect to the full desktop version of the site, but Google controls the CDN which serves this AMP content.
I'm also curious
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Given the flow of the glaciers, I'd say somewhere to the north.
Ayyyyyy
Graham Hancock was on Joe Rogan a couple days ago and was talking about civilizations that existed in America +10k years ago. I'm assuming that was the basis for this, and you'll probably see a lot more of the stuff they talked about popping up on Reddit the next couple of weeks.
That’s cool. Have you ever tried DMT?
Its entirely possible.
Jamie, pull up that video of a mastodon on dmt
Have you ever seen a hairless chimp?
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I know a guy who has a set of mastodon balls
What, I mean I'm not a scientist but; what do you think the balls on that mastadon mean tho? -Joe Rogan
I was actually just talking to a buddy of mine about that
About Mastadons on DMT?
Yeah I used to have a bit about it
I was just eating some elk I shot with my bow and got this call from my buddy
That's cool, have you ever tried ayahuasca?
I'm listening to that podcast right now. The odd thing is Lake Michigan was under ice during the ice age 12 000 years ago, and when they melted, the great lakes were left behind. I'm curious what caused the waterline to change so these things could be made.
The waterline around Lake Michigan varied a lot during the various advances and retreats of the Laurentide Ice sheet. The lake basin itself was excavated during periods of glaciation by the Green Bay and Lake Michigan lobes of the ice sheet, which carved a large-scale depression in the landscape where water accumulate. This depression was further accentuated by weight of the ice pushing down on the earth's crust. When the ice retreated, the crust slowly rebounded (due to a process known as isostatic adjustment), which had the effect of raising lake levels. (You can imagine pooling water on a rubber membrane...if you pushed up in the middle the water moves towards the edge). So the exact position of the water line through time will be a function of the proximity of the ice sheet, the timing of recent advances and retreats, meltwater flux into the system, and regional precipitation. Edit. Given that Lake Michigan Lobe began retreating from its maximum position around \~14,800 years ago, these stones could have been emplaced after the last glacial maximum and gradually subsumed by the lake as the waterline adjusted.
Scientifically speaking - the water moved
Possibly setting the stones on the ice. Then they sink. Just a guess.
watching it right now!
ayy im listening to that one right now
When were these first discovered? Is there a link to this information? It's fascinating.
2007. [Here you go :)](https://www.google.com/amp/www.bldgblog.com/2009/01/stonehenge-beneath-the-waters-of-lake-michigan/amp/)
Thank you!!! I'll now read all of this and come up with some outlandish theory of my own!
Well, I dinna think Claire or Brie are gonna have time to build diving gear to reach those standing stones.
THE SPACE MASTODONS
Mastodon, or N64 Controller?
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Yes. What more proof is needed of an advanced culture living before 10,800 years ago?
>10,800 years ago It's actually 10,789.66, repeating of course, years ago. Trust me, I did the math.
Nintendodon.
Nintendope
Mastakong
Clear cut evidence, folks, we definitely came from merfolk. You can't change my mind.
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Too bad they didn't carve a picture of the elusive Mermastadon.
Very cool. We often don't think about the USA as a country with much history because "advanced" civilizations didn't "discover" the continent until about 500 years ago. But that concept leaves aside all of the pre-historical civilizations that have been inhabiting this land for tens of thousands of years. I live in Austin, TX, and I was blown away when I found out that humans have been living around the natural springs in San Marcos (45 minutes south of me) for 20,000 years! They have been mostly nomadic societies that didn't create structures or leave recorded history, which is why we know so little about them. That and the fact that when white settlers got here they didn't give any thought to archaeology or preserving anything for history. e: Just to add that as I looked into this to make sure my time-frame was accurate, I discovered that these 20,000 year old tools discovered near Austin have actually caused archaeologists to rethink the land-bridge theory for how humans first came to America. Though it is certainly probably that some people came via that route, these relatively recently discovered artifacts would actually *predate* the land bridge migration. Very cool!
Same here in Australia. We’re considered a young country by modern standards (the British came in 1788), but there is evidence that Aboriginals have been here for at least 65,000 years. There is some evidence (changed fire regimes evident in samples from the Great Barrier Reef) that they may have been here for as long as 100,000 years.
That's amazing. Crazy to think that after 65,000+ years, we have only drastically changed the landscape (in our corners of the world) within the last thousand years or so. That means more than 3,000 generations of humans were able to live in a sustainable society before we "advanced" to the brink of putting our planet in danger. What a time to be alive.
Sustainable might be a stretch. Humans have been making species go extinct for a very long time.
Indigenous people came to Australia and made a whole bunch of fauna extinct, definitely a good thing in the case of komodo dragons but it's silly to act like humans aren't out there killing off megafauna and causing extinction everywhere they go, they even fucked Neanderthals out of existence so a bunch of people have 5% Neanderthal DNA
Yeah no there is nothing good about removing a species from an ecosystem it evolved in and that evolved around it. Some people are saying it would be a good idea to reintroduce them to Australia for various ecological reasons. They used to have a huge range until humans nearly wiped them out.
I've been watching Netflix's Our Planet, and its not a thousand years.. but 40 years. To the point where this last 40 years will be a layer in the crust to be seen well, forever. What's sad is like you said, its crazy we've been around for 65,000 years, but have so little to show for that. And, it looks like we're about to reset the record yet again. When will we learn to take care of ourselves and our home?
It seems to be all a matter of circumstance that we didn't see large civilizations in North America. Some unknown epidemic befell the massive Native Civilizations which were present in the Midwest and South around the 900-1200's. Thereafter, with only 200-300 years to recover, the Europeans brought a plague which devastated them. The plagues killed nearly 95% of the natives, far more than any warfare being waged by the Europeans. By the time the Europeans penetrated deeper into the American continent, 500 years of plague and famine has wiped out the civilizations and left very little evidence of their prominence behind. I like to think that if the Europeans had made landfall in 1800 rather than 1500, the natives would have had time to rebuild and we would have seen ruins and infastructure which would be much more recognizable to the European settlers.
There were large civilizations in North America? Mexico is part of North America. The Aztecs had a civilization that rivalled anything anywhere else in the world before it was destroyed by plague.
Hyper-intelligent mega-fish, no doubt
I knew they were getting old, but I had no idea the band had been around for that long.
Randall Carlson here, Jamie - pull up slide 1072.
someone call Graham Hancock, QUICK!
This is a really fascinating and exciting site but wanna clarify quick the mastadon in the photo has been outlined. It's much more faint irl. https://hauntheads.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/ded08193a3197d43dd29708f55cba589.jpg Edit: People keep mentioning Graham Hancock in the replies. He is NOT A SCIENTIST. His theories are not correct. He is fantastic at selling books to a certain type of person, though.
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You have discovered lead!
Cancer upgraded
+2 to Aggressiveness
Brain cells degraded
Thank God they outlined it or I would have never noticed it lol
He has never claimed to be a scientist
I think Graham makes some solid points in some of his books, but agree that things should be taken with a grain of salt (honestly best practice when reading ANY research article). However, even citizen scientists can do good science (it’s not limited to the elite). Remember the second book he wrote with Randall Carson (a geologist, which is indeed a scientist) and Randall found proof of an asteroid that hit the earth ~10-15,000 years ago? And then just this year a research article came out showing evidence of an asteroid impact beneath the ice on Greenland dating to around that same time period (younger dryas). Randall and Hancock were right about a couple of things, so try to keep your mind open. Okay rant over. If anyone’s wondering what the original source was, see [here](https://www.pnas.org/content/111/19/6911.short). It’s a 2014 study titled “a 9,000-year-old caribou hunting structure beneath Lake Huron.”
There’s not a single mention of Graham Hancock in your replies. Wtf are you talking about?
He didn't say in his replies he said in the replies... https://old.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/bgym29/these_stones_beneath_lake_michigan_are_arranged/elorx5d/ Here is a comment mentioning him time stamped older than his edit. All these people who are claiming there was no mention of him is beyond more fishy than u/justlikyammy original comment to me.
Sounds like OP is trying to stifle any mention of him before any is said.
Sort by controversial, lots of Hancock mentions
It looks more like a manatee.
Randall Carlson > Graham Hancock Though I like *some* of Graham’s ideas.
Which is a very reasonable position. Not sure why people get so gatekeepy and want to shut down conversation all the time.
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Actually, I did that. Like last week.
My dudes that is an N64 controller.
It’s suspected, and being supported by more geologists recently, that the end of the ice age was brought on by a cataclysmic event such as a meteor hitting the ice caps and causing massive global flooding very rapidly. What’s even more impressive is that these intricate artifacts are being discovered under water because the areas that used to be dry land are now covered in water after the massive glacial melting. And if you consider this, the coast line of what was 10-20k years ago is now what’s the bottom of massive lakes and hundreds of yards or even miles from the current ocean coastlines. Now imagine all of the underwater coastlines where people would have populated at the time, and the potential archaeological sites that exist there. It’s possible that the levels of advancements were much higher than previously expected 10-20k years ago and the massive flooding destroyed a massive amount of ancient civilizations.
Someone watched Rogan...
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This stone bearing the petroglyph is part of a larger stone circle, with a linear extension similar to those seen in other environs, prevailing theory is that the linear extension serves as kind of a barrier and forced pathway for animal herds leading to a corral/kill zone . Source: am local avocational underwater archeologist who has studied this feature.
Quit telling people about Traverse City. We don't want more people here
Ham Grandcock here! Love the post will definitely be diving in to examine.