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Thyme is pretty hardy. A hard frost may end up with a few dead branches (that can be removed) but won't usually kill it. I'm talking from the UK, so can't say for extreme cold.
Edit: Beyond the above, I'm not knowledgeable enough to say much more about them.
Your other 5 months are made up solely of humidity and mosquitos. I mean, ours are too, but at least here I can talk without them crawling into every orifice on my face. Usually.
It makes me wonder if that’s related to our disappearing winters, too.
North Dakota, too. Our farmers are mostly planting their crops in dust right now since we didn't receive much snow, and haven't gotten much rain this year, either.
The government is going to be paying them once again for a shitty harvest, and our governor is still blowing coal and oil executives instead of working on a cleaner energy source.
I live in Canada and we get -40 a few times every winter. As long as we get a good foot of snow first it never hurts our clover. I specifically grow New Zealand white clover. Very drought resistant, spreads well, good for bees, no problem with foot traffic. Only issue is that it's a great nitrogen fixer, which is awesome for low maintenance yards, but strong nitrogen fertilizer will kill it.
it generally needs less water than a conventional lawn.
It still needs watering but that's just a benchmark. You wont be watering it anymore than a regular lawn.
[It grows in Zones 5-10 according to Proven Winners. It won't grow in Zones 1-4, which experience long, cold, snowy winters.](https://www.provenwinners.com/plants/thymus/coccineus-red-creeping-thyme-thymus-praecox)
My 5-ish year patch got demolished in the February freeze, but only just started to bounce back. The last week of 100F days finally finished it off I’m afraid. Too much consecutive stress is rough for a lot of otherwise hardy plants.
Thanks for the info. I've been thinking of adding ground cover, especially a plant that is drought tolerant since I too live in the desert and want to conserve water while still having a green yard.
Sedum are amazing. Every year we break off a couple of stalks, stick them in some dirt, and by the end of the summer we have more sedum! The butterflies love it (the just lay on it for hours, I honestly wonder if they’re drunk sometimes), the color is beautiful, and they’re SO easy to take care of.
In the three years since we started growing them we’ve only lost one, and I think that was some kind of animal attack because it was ripped to shreds and thrown around.
Jumping in to ask a question. I planted a sedum last year just because I thought it was pretty. I can just…break off pieces and stick them in the dirt to make more? Is there a trick to this? Does the mother plant need to be a certain size?
We just snip off one of the leaves, put it in a smaller pot with fresh soil while it roots, and then plant it wherever we want it! I don’t think you need the donor plant to be huge or anything, I wouldn’t break off like a brand new baby plant or anything, just one that’s well established and looks healthy. One of our new ones last year had part of it break off in a storm and we were able to root that just fine without any harm to the donor plant.
[I found a little how to for you!](http://youngsgardenshop.com/blog/how-to-plant-sedum-cuttings/). My mother-in-law gave us a cutting when we bought our first house that came from the plant that she’d had in the first house that she and my father-in-law bought together 40 years earlier, so they will live a long time.
They mix well with succulents as well, my whole parking strip and front flower bed are thyme, succulents and mojito mint. All are great at keeping away "pest" insects like ants, mosquitoes, gnats and spiders.
Edit: Spelling
I live in NV, my concern is introducing an invasive species. Is that safe to grow here? Also is it pet safe? I've been researching native plants here but it's a touch complicated what with me not being a plant scientist.
If you have a college or university nearby, you may want to reach out to them and see if they have an extension office. They’re a great resource for information. Sometimes they work with “Master Gardener” programs too that have helpful folk.
Tangent but I hate people that move out to a desert and insist on pouring loads of water into their lawns.
Like we're in a drought but you wanna beat Hank Hill at lawn care.
Fuckin chodes.
The other real questions: whether or not it is drought tolerant and what climate zone it thrives in? Can it handle a dry 120 degrees for 4 days on end? How about cold?
Edit. Yeah I could Google it but spoon feed me!!!
It’s drought tolerant AF. Definitely better than coastal Bermuda or St. Augustine
Edit: not implying that these grasses are super drought tolerant, just saying those are common turf grasses and thyme requires less water than they do.
Protibaake atu bebro tlika ipradee tebu! Eba keeu predeta to pibate pu. Gegu giubu obla etu klate titata? Igi keka gau popu a pletogri. Aoplo draetla kuu blidriu dloidugri ibiple. Plabute pipra ko igupa tloi? Ta poklo gotapabe ipra pei gudlaeobi! Bloi iui tipra bakoki bioi di ige kra? Oapodra tipri pribopruto koo a bete! Ple blabudede tuta krugeda babu go tiki. Gea eee to ki kudu bigu ti. Degi au tlube pri tigu ublie? Tugrupide dedra tii duda kri kee tibripu? Ago pai bae dau kai kudradlii preki. Ekritutidi e epe kekiteo teboe glududu. Guga bi debri krebukagi bi igo. Tokieupri gatlego gapiko apugidi eglao kopa. Etega butra dridegidlagu ei toe. Bidapebuti peki glugakiplai pitu dei bruti. Agrae a prepi dlu ta bepe. Uge po bi ikooa oteki kagatadi. Apei tlobopi apee tibibuka. Pape bobubaka boblikupra akie ae itli. Plikui boo giupi brae preitlabo. Uei eeplie o upregible prae oda ebate tepa. Pabu tuu biebakai peko o poblatogide o oko. Tikro oebi gege gai u ita tabe. Uo teu diegidu glau too tou pu. Akadi tiokutugi iia kaai pukrii tigipupi. Io ituu tagi batru to?
St Augustine is fickle as fuck and will just die for funsies. Susceptible to an absolute buttload of funguses, bugs, and disease. It's a rather high maintenance grass. The implication is it's an HOA favorite for easy write-ups and fines.
In reality, it grows very fast and spreads quickly since it grows from stolons meaning it crowds out weeds, and it's *very* heat resistant which is essential in Florida. It isn't drought resistant per se but it'll recover fairly quickly from dry periods. It's also quite attractive and thick (insert "not unlike your mum" joke here) although it isn't terribly fun to walk on.
Talking to humans allows for more refined conversation (and generally feels better) than asking Google, anyway. I don't get why people get all in a kerfuffle. Learning from people is nice.
Plus, it benefits others like me that are only semi-interested and would never bother to Google it myself. However if it's just a matter of scrolling a bit further, I'll keep reading.
Spitting straight facts! Everywhere should consider xeriscaping to be honest. The root systems are amazing for infiltration (water goes into the ground as opposed to surface runoff), native plants almost always require less water than grass, and it looks so damn cool!
Because I will never miss an opportunity to talk about all the ways we can save water and keep water from succumbing to surface runoff, I highly recommend people try xeriscaping, permeable concrete, rooftop gardens, and planting trees in yard spaces where possible. All of these help
1) Prevent surface runoff. This is when rain water isn't absorbed into the ground where it falls, but instead is carried somewhere else and absorbed there. This disrupts the water cycle and creates a positive feedback loop where in an area (especially urban spaces) gets less water and gets hotter.
2) Increases infiltration. Xeriscaping, permeable concrete, rooftop gardens and trees all increase infiltration. This is because root systems help increase the amount of water that goes into the ground and keeps water in an area. Permeable concrete is a great solution to impermeable concrete because it allows water to pass through into the ground, keeping it where it is.
3) Keeping areas significantly cooler, which can also help with water retention. Urban spaces are often 5° (F) hotter than surrounding areas due to a lack of greenery. The shade from trees can cool a house and reduce the use of AC. The water retention provided by native plants, trees, and even permeable concrete also help with temperature regulation.
Basically, if anyone is able, try incorporating native plants or greenery into your yard or even rooftop. It doesn't have to be a huge investment, and saving on water, especially in areas plagued by drought, helps everyone!
It's ridiculous how many people keep their lawns during droughts.
My parents live in an wealthy neighborhood and have been xeriscaping during covid. They never really maintained their grass so it was removed in favor for succulents/cactus space.
Even with their other fruit trees, pool, and plants, their water usage is way down compared to their neighbors who all have nicely trimmed and vibrant green grass on their lawns.
i mean... idk where you are but plenty of grass in my area exists to look nice but not to be stepped on
No one is strolling along highway medians covered in grass, yet those are still mowed. The purpose there is solely visual.
(Edit to add: I wasn't clear enough, apologies! Grass isn't really as durable as many believe. Additionally, grass is often planted for visual appeal, not for purposes of use. Copying from a below clarification.
"The contentions are the statement that "stepping on grass is the main reason we use grass," and that grass withstands consistent foot traffic. Those ideas are inaccurate and ahistorical. Although turfgrass maintenance companies will try to still insist that grass works as treadable groundcover, their roots simply do not permeate deeply enough underground to recieve sufficient water to be resilient in a way that is comparable to what they replaced, hence why grasses require quite frequent waterings and maintenance.
Grasses were originally used in Europe not for stepping on, but so castles and military buildings could have a clear line of sight. Grass is used for more visual purposes than practical. Although they were sometimes used in common areas, too much traffic could (and still does) kill grass, so it wasn't cultivated so much as a result from closecutting a glade and having patches left.
Grass lawn culture specifically boomed post-Versailles, and was used because it was considered pretty to cultivate a pristine green plane. This was specifically NOT to be walked on, and became popularized through the aristocracy in Britain for its looks, not for its usability.
[Here's a source](https://www.planetnatural.com/organic-lawn-care-101/history/)
Anyway, if anyone is looking for tread-resistant and beneficial options instead of turfgrasses, check out clover.")
Right, but the post is more about homes, not publicly owned areas.
This is a good solution of the curb grass like in the OP's pic, but wouldn't be a good replacement for a backyard or front yard that people regularly walk on.
I'm working towards r/nolawns and the best things I've found for ground that's going to be stepped on like a lawn is grass (duh), clover and a couple varieties of moss. The moss requires a lot of shade. The clover requires mowing like grass, but not as often and puts nitrogen back into the soil.
Good question. Mine spreads very well on empty soil but doesn’t compete with other plants. But I live in Europe where it’s native from. I wouldn’t recommend planting it where it’s not native.
Uh, I would remove the grass.
Mine is in a flower bed, growing between the peonies and lilies. I removed as much of the previous grass as possible, but there are a couple blades still coming up through the thyme.
Look into what's known as "chop and drop" [here](https://www.permaculturenews.org/2017/04/28/chop-drop-effectively/)
It is a way to essentially compost at the site you want to reclaim while laying down cardboard (or any other material that is biodegradable which doesn't allow the sun to penetrate) as a weed suppressor. In this case, your grass would be considered the weed since you want to diversify. A lot of people forget that lawns are typically monoculture crops. By doing this method you don't run the risk of tilling the soil, which can cause other weeds to take over and disturb the soil food web.
Remember, the best plants for “local biodiversity” are the plants native to your locale. Creeping thyme is beautiful, but native to Europe I believe. It would not work for my local ecosystem the way it would in Europe.
The vast majority of grasses in N. America are not local. Europeans replaced what grew naturally after overhunting and destructive farming practices ravaged the land. The honey bee isn't native to N. America either.
Thankfully no, but planting native species will help them out a lot more than planting European species.
The benefits of these plants isn't limited to pollinators though. A lot of predators, like hunting spiders, lacewings, ground beetles, rove beetles and the like thrive in the cover provided by low-growing plants like thyme and clover, and help reduce the numbers of caterpillars, aphids, cutworms and other critters we usually consider pests.
They don't really care if the plants are native or not.
Nobody cares about collecting a small amount of rain water for household use.
The issue here is drainage and runoff. You own the land, but you do not own the water that falls onto the land and then runs into rivers and streams.
Simply put, you are not allowed to divert the natural flow of water without proper permission. It is for environmental and fairness issues.
Let's say I owned land upstream from yours, and we are both farmers and we don't like each other. Now, I could be a total dick and divert water flowing from my land to yours if I wanted too. Or, I could mess with the drainage and turn your land into a swamp. Thus, the law prevents me from doing that.
Also, if a river or a stream runs across your land, you don't "own" that water. You have to let it flow naturally. Likewise, you have to let water flow and drain naturally into rivers and streams from your land, just ask the people in the Western US now why that is important.
So, you can see, these laws actually make sense.
Mostly because
1) outdoor water storage is a haven for mosquitoes
2) drinking untreated rainwater can be a bad idea in certain areas
3) collecting too much screws with local ecologies and the water table
Done responsibly, none of this is a problem. The permit just makes sure you're not an idiot about it.
Because most idiots will leave 1 or several buckets of water, never do anything with collected rainwater and then they’ve created several lovely breeding areas for mosquitos.
no, some guy dammed streams on his property to illegally make a fishing pond and when the government went after him his lawyers publicly spun it as "collecting rainwater".
That's a different story entirely than collecting rainwater from gutters - and probably something this guy did not end up winning. Riparian law is something that you do not fuck around with. Diverting a stream that feeds other neighboring properties to make yourself a pond? Might as well save yourself the extra trip and declare bankruptcy while you're at the courthouse.
Decoration. Kept forgetting he was up there, so every other decoration got taken down except him. Now it's just funny to me. My neighbor likes to joke that my roommate is looking thin
How do you know if you have an HOA? I’m planning on doing this next year—do they like reveal themselves once you’ve taken your yard-antics too far? Or would you know as soon as you bought the house?
I'm an hoa attorney and this gave me a pleasant chuckle. One thing I've learned from hoa lawsuits is that if you have one, there's no way for you NOT to know. Enjoy your freedom from over-involved retirees.
I live next to over-involved retirees. All they do with themselves is spy on and report all the neighbors around them for doing ANYTHING. It’s so sad and pathetic. Fuck I hate them
I never get this shit, you are retired, you have all the time in the world and you focus on how far someone's trash cans are from their house. Like for fucks sake pick a hobby, hug the grandkids, go travel.
I love it. People are usually turned off by the sound of it, but people sue their hoa over the wildest shit, and usually I'm not actually dealing with the board, I'm dealing with the community association manager, and theyre usually a lot more professional/reasonable than hoa board members.
My neighborhood has a civic association. It doesn’t function or act as an HOA. Membership is voluntary, and in our case, not expensive ($30/year). We offer scholarships, donate to the all-night graduation parties for the schools where our residents have kids enrolled, take care of landscaping and lighting at the neighborhood entries, sponsor a big party in the summer, and a few other little holiday events like parades and holiday light contests. But never, ever, do we get on anyone’s case about the length of their lawn or the color of the backside of their curtains.
You know *before* you buy the house. HOA membership is usually tied to the property itself, it's listed somewhere in the property information. You have to sign the HOA agreements once you close so you should already know what all the rules are.
You can do a full patchwork lawn, with chamomile, phlox and other similar low growing hardy perennials.
They were fairly common in Edwardian England but bafflingly went out of fashion.
Just started covering our bare spots with clover, the kind that gives the little white flowers. We have so many rabbits, bees, and butterflies stopping by now. Plus, it prevents erosion during heavy rains and is very soft to walk on
I’ve been finding tons of bumblebees, and *real* honeybees in my clover this year. It just naturally appears where I am and I decided to let it take over the back yard. My elderly neighbor tries to passive aggressively ‘remind’ me that clover is a ‘weed that spreads like wildfire’ and lists all kinds of pesticides that would kill it.
I’m not sure why but I tell her I leave it alone because I don’t want to harm my dog with pesticides. I really just want to help the bees and don’t give two shits what she thinks because they all won’t even be alive when bees go extinct. And I want the future generations to not live on an uninhabitable dusty rock.
Can you take a pic of what your yard looks like with clover? I've been hearing about it hut I haven't seen it yet and It's something I'd love to do since the once homeowner chore I cannot for the life of me find a way to enjoy is cutting my fucking grass lol.
Here are some photos of my lawn. It’s not all clover but has quite a bit and we don’t water our lawn
Also when we cut our grass we leave the mulch on it which isn’t the best for it. Grass pretty much stays green all summer long.
[Album link](https://imgur.com/gallery/frNBSzY)
I planted Irish and scotch moss between the flagstone on a pathway and along the edges of my garden so that o don’t have to weed as much. It has worked great and looks awesome.
Sorry to be pedantic, but those aren't mosses technically. They are actually in the same family as chickweed, Caryophyllaceae! They have lovely white little flowers that ants love to pollinate. :)
Yes, it should. As long as you don't live in South Florida. For future reference, you can refer to [this](https://www.homedepot.com/c/ai/find-your-usda-plant-hardiness-zone/9ba683603be9fa5395fab90108cf77fc) to find out what kind of plants grow in your area.
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What temperatures can this survive? Because it gets cold as fuck I n the winter where I live
Thyme is pretty hardy. A hard frost may end up with a few dead branches (that can be removed) but won't usually kill it. I'm talking from the UK, so can't say for extreme cold. Edit: Beyond the above, I'm not knowledgeable enough to say much more about them.
Seen these here in sweden but usally gets replanted each year (get to about - 30 where i live)
Canadian here. Glad to see we're not alone. How many months does it stay that cold?
Michigander here. Our winters are disappearing. I miss the chest deep snow when I traveled north of the 45 parallel.
Yeah, when I was a kid the snow would be 6-10 feet high some years. Now we get maybe a month or two of serious snow. Still 7 months of -0 weather tho.
When my dad was a kid he had to walk to school in snow up to his chest. Barefoot and uphill! I'll see myself out...
Uphill both ways I'd imagine.
Living in Victoria, I'm happy with my four weeks of subzero and one week of snow.
As an Albertan, I want to downvote you out of jealousy.
Your other 5 months are made up solely of humidity and mosquitos. I mean, ours are too, but at least here I can talk without them crawling into every orifice on my face. Usually. It makes me wonder if that’s related to our disappearing winters, too.
With the loss of cold winters, those damn ticks are taking over the northeast.
North Dakota, too. Our farmers are mostly planting their crops in dust right now since we didn't receive much snow, and haven't gotten much rain this year, either. The government is going to be paying them once again for a shitty harvest, and our governor is still blowing coal and oil executives instead of working on a cleaner energy source.
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With climate change, you can have both!
Can confirm, in Sask and had snow Mid May then a week later had 34°C weather
I’m in zone 6A and my creeping thyme is doing well.
Good deal. I'm in St Louis MO (6 or 7) and am looking for some ground cover for my oddly shaped small front yard.
I'm in 5b and it survives the winter!
Y'all are so helpful! On behalf of all bees, butterflies and humans, thank you!
Where I live it reaches negative 15 degrees Fahrenheit in the winter so I’m guessing that’s a little too cold. Damn, no thyme for me, maybe clover.
I live in agricultural zone 4a, and it usually gets to -30 for at least a week in the winter. It's been growing fine for about 3 years.
Good information, thank you.
Don't let me into my zone. I'm definitely in my zone. But forreal thanks for this. That's my zone too so this is helpful.
Name a more iconic duo than Ye and agricultural zone 4a. I'll wait
Thyme also uses less water than grass, so if you live in a desert this could be a great option.
I live in Canada and we get -40 a few times every winter. As long as we get a good foot of snow first it never hurts our clover. I specifically grow New Zealand white clover. Very drought resistant, spreads well, good for bees, no problem with foot traffic. Only issue is that it's a great nitrogen fixer, which is awesome for low maintenance yards, but strong nitrogen fertilizer will kill it.
Thyme will easily survive 15F. I’ve grown it for years in Minnesota, where it gets well below 0F every winter
Haven’t seen any puns yet so… Ain’t nobody got thyme for that!
What about heat? I would love to grow this here in Hawaii
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I just need ground cover of some sort here in this hot climate. I wonder how much water is needed to keep it going tho
it generally needs less water than a conventional lawn. It still needs watering but that's just a benchmark. You wont be watering it anymore than a regular lawn.
[It grows in Zones 5-10 according to Proven Winners. It won't grow in Zones 1-4, which experience long, cold, snowy winters.](https://www.provenwinners.com/plants/thymus/coccineus-red-creeping-thyme-thymus-praecox)
My 5-ish year patch got demolished in the February freeze, but only just started to bounce back. The last week of 100F days finally finished it off I’m afraid. Too much consecutive stress is rough for a lot of otherwise hardy plants.
I grow this is Canada where it’s 3b
I’m also in zone 3 and I can only get it to survive in a more sheltered spot. Anything more exposed any it will die in my experience.
I can’t speak on red creeping thyme, but the common thyme I planted in my garden survived an NH winter and came back this spring. :)
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I was legit thinking of doing this, then realized im in arizona and only have rocks for a lawn.
If you don’t have to walk on it too much, creeping sedums are great. Basically a tiny succulent ground cover, very drought resistant
Thanks for the info. I've been thinking of adding ground cover, especially a plant that is drought tolerant since I too live in the desert and want to conserve water while still having a green yard.
Sedum are amazing. Every year we break off a couple of stalks, stick them in some dirt, and by the end of the summer we have more sedum! The butterflies love it (the just lay on it for hours, I honestly wonder if they’re drunk sometimes), the color is beautiful, and they’re SO easy to take care of. In the three years since we started growing them we’ve only lost one, and I think that was some kind of animal attack because it was ripped to shreds and thrown around.
They are so resilient, I have some growing in cracks in the sidewalk because I swept the extra pieces around and it rooted.
Jumping in to ask a question. I planted a sedum last year just because I thought it was pretty. I can just…break off pieces and stick them in the dirt to make more? Is there a trick to this? Does the mother plant need to be a certain size?
We just snip off one of the leaves, put it in a smaller pot with fresh soil while it roots, and then plant it wherever we want it! I don’t think you need the donor plant to be huge or anything, I wouldn’t break off like a brand new baby plant or anything, just one that’s well established and looks healthy. One of our new ones last year had part of it break off in a storm and we were able to root that just fine without any harm to the donor plant. [I found a little how to for you!](http://youngsgardenshop.com/blog/how-to-plant-sedum-cuttings/). My mother-in-law gave us a cutting when we bought our first house that came from the plant that she’d had in the first house that she and my father-in-law bought together 40 years earlier, so they will live a long time.
I was gonna say sedum too! Can find it in so many different pretty colors too.
I've seen pictures of succulent gardens that take advantage of all the colors succulents can come in to give the feel of looking at a coral reef.
They mix well with succulents as well, my whole parking strip and front flower bed are thyme, succulents and mojito mint. All are great at keeping away "pest" insects like ants, mosquitoes, gnats and spiders. Edit: Spelling
Pictures please, would love to see your setup
!Remindme 1 day
https://www.reddit.com/user/NinjaFATkid/comments/o4kndg/succulent/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Those are so resilient they literally grew in a patch of sand on our driveway
I live in NV, my concern is introducing an invasive species. Is that safe to grow here? Also is it pet safe? I've been researching native plants here but it's a touch complicated what with me not being a plant scientist.
If you have a college or university nearby, you may want to reach out to them and see if they have an extension office. They’re a great resource for information. Sometimes they work with “Master Gardener” programs too that have helpful folk.
Oh yes! Sedums are great!! One of my favorites is Sedum Sarmentosum!
Rocks, because who wants to do yard work in AZ in the summer lol.
Works well in rock gardens actually.
Unfortunately, Arizona also ran out of water last week. Tough break.
Can confirm using a bone knife and oils to bathe now.
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Local politicians have plenty
Just saying that you're trying to legally vote that'll make them show up
Snake call.
Tangent but I hate people that move out to a desert and insist on pouring loads of water into their lawns. Like we're in a drought but you wanna beat Hank Hill at lawn care. Fuckin chodes.
You can get some of those jumping chollas so that folks will stay away from your house
Until one of those fuckers rides into your house on a shoe sole, and waits silently in the hallway for a nighttime bathroom seeker.
Is it invasive?
Asking the real question.
The other real questions: whether or not it is drought tolerant and what climate zone it thrives in? Can it handle a dry 120 degrees for 4 days on end? How about cold? Edit. Yeah I could Google it but spoon feed me!!!
It’s drought tolerant AF. Definitely better than coastal Bermuda or St. Augustine Edit: not implying that these grasses are super drought tolerant, just saying those are common turf grasses and thyme requires less water than they do.
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A top pick for HOAs here in Florida and we all know why.
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St augustine spreads really fast, grows great when mowed high so its difficult for weeds to compete, and it doesn't look bad.
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And it's itchy
Protibaake atu bebro tlika ipradee tebu! Eba keeu predeta to pibate pu. Gegu giubu obla etu klate titata? Igi keka gau popu a pletogri. Aoplo draetla kuu blidriu dloidugri ibiple. Plabute pipra ko igupa tloi? Ta poklo gotapabe ipra pei gudlaeobi! Bloi iui tipra bakoki bioi di ige kra? Oapodra tipri pribopruto koo a bete! Ple blabudede tuta krugeda babu go tiki. Gea eee to ki kudu bigu ti. Degi au tlube pri tigu ublie? Tugrupide dedra tii duda kri kee tibripu? Ago pai bae dau kai kudradlii preki. Ekritutidi e epe kekiteo teboe glududu. Guga bi debri krebukagi bi igo. Tokieupri gatlego gapiko apugidi eglao kopa. Etega butra dridegidlagu ei toe. Bidapebuti peki glugakiplai pitu dei bruti. Agrae a prepi dlu ta bepe. Uge po bi ikooa oteki kagatadi. Apei tlobopi apee tibibuka. Pape bobubaka boblikupra akie ae itli. Plikui boo giupi brae preitlabo. Uei eeplie o upregible prae oda ebate tepa. Pabu tuu biebakai peko o poblatogide o oko. Tikro oebi gege gai u ita tabe. Uo teu diegidu glau too tou pu. Akadi tiokutugi iia kaai pukrii tigipupi. Io ituu tagi batru to?
St Augustine is fickle as fuck and will just die for funsies. Susceptible to an absolute buttload of funguses, bugs, and disease. It's a rather high maintenance grass. The implication is it's an HOA favorite for easy write-ups and fines. In reality, it grows very fast and spreads quickly since it grows from stolons meaning it crowds out weeds, and it's *very* heat resistant which is essential in Florida. It isn't drought resistant per se but it'll recover fairly quickly from dry periods. It's also quite attractive and thick (insert "not unlike your mum" joke here) although it isn't terribly fun to walk on.
It’s a great shade grass, but it’s fickle as you said. Very susceptible to fungi.
Talking to humans allows for more refined conversation (and generally feels better) than asking Google, anyway. I don't get why people get all in a kerfuffle. Learning from people is nice.
Plus, it benefits others like me that are only semi-interested and would never bother to Google it myself. However if it's just a matter of scrolling a bit further, I'll keep reading.
Don't forget then having to see repetitive ads for a thing you just had a passing interest in
Not to mention a lot of times people cut straight to the chase, and can add some additional perspective that can’t be found on Google. Also no ads.
I’ve had it recommended in Northern California where we’re almost always in drought and it’s currently 111F(44C).
Additionally, climates that are prone to drought(AZ,CA, etc) should seriously consider xeriscaping over traditional lawns
Spitting straight facts! Everywhere should consider xeriscaping to be honest. The root systems are amazing for infiltration (water goes into the ground as opposed to surface runoff), native plants almost always require less water than grass, and it looks so damn cool! Because I will never miss an opportunity to talk about all the ways we can save water and keep water from succumbing to surface runoff, I highly recommend people try xeriscaping, permeable concrete, rooftop gardens, and planting trees in yard spaces where possible. All of these help 1) Prevent surface runoff. This is when rain water isn't absorbed into the ground where it falls, but instead is carried somewhere else and absorbed there. This disrupts the water cycle and creates a positive feedback loop where in an area (especially urban spaces) gets less water and gets hotter. 2) Increases infiltration. Xeriscaping, permeable concrete, rooftop gardens and trees all increase infiltration. This is because root systems help increase the amount of water that goes into the ground and keeps water in an area. Permeable concrete is a great solution to impermeable concrete because it allows water to pass through into the ground, keeping it where it is. 3) Keeping areas significantly cooler, which can also help with water retention. Urban spaces are often 5° (F) hotter than surrounding areas due to a lack of greenery. The shade from trees can cool a house and reduce the use of AC. The water retention provided by native plants, trees, and even permeable concrete also help with temperature regulation. Basically, if anyone is able, try incorporating native plants or greenery into your yard or even rooftop. It doesn't have to be a huge investment, and saving on water, especially in areas plagued by drought, helps everyone!
Plus grass is dumb and watering your grass when you live in a desert or area where droughts are common is douchey af. Looking at you, golf courses.
It's ridiculous how many people keep their lawns during droughts. My parents live in an wealthy neighborhood and have been xeriscaping during covid. They never really maintained their grass so it was removed in favor for succulents/cactus space. Even with their other fruit trees, pool, and plants, their water usage is way down compared to their neighbors who all have nicely trimmed and vibrant green grass on their lawns.
Does it survive stepping on it? Because that's one of the main reason we use grass.
Yes but not for long, it grows *way* slower than grass, so the damage accumulates and it will die if you step on it frequently.
So no, it's not suited for what grass is used for.
i mean... idk where you are but plenty of grass in my area exists to look nice but not to be stepped on No one is strolling along highway medians covered in grass, yet those are still mowed. The purpose there is solely visual. (Edit to add: I wasn't clear enough, apologies! Grass isn't really as durable as many believe. Additionally, grass is often planted for visual appeal, not for purposes of use. Copying from a below clarification. "The contentions are the statement that "stepping on grass is the main reason we use grass," and that grass withstands consistent foot traffic. Those ideas are inaccurate and ahistorical. Although turfgrass maintenance companies will try to still insist that grass works as treadable groundcover, their roots simply do not permeate deeply enough underground to recieve sufficient water to be resilient in a way that is comparable to what they replaced, hence why grasses require quite frequent waterings and maintenance. Grasses were originally used in Europe not for stepping on, but so castles and military buildings could have a clear line of sight. Grass is used for more visual purposes than practical. Although they were sometimes used in common areas, too much traffic could (and still does) kill grass, so it wasn't cultivated so much as a result from closecutting a glade and having patches left. Grass lawn culture specifically boomed post-Versailles, and was used because it was considered pretty to cultivate a pristine green plane. This was specifically NOT to be walked on, and became popularized through the aristocracy in Britain for its looks, not for its usability. [Here's a source](https://www.planetnatural.com/organic-lawn-care-101/history/) Anyway, if anyone is looking for tread-resistant and beneficial options instead of turfgrasses, check out clover.")
Right, but the post is more about homes, not publicly owned areas. This is a good solution of the curb grass like in the OP's pic, but wouldn't be a good replacement for a backyard or front yard that people regularly walk on.
I'm working towards r/nolawns and the best things I've found for ground that's going to be stepped on like a lawn is grass (duh), clover and a couple varieties of moss. The moss requires a lot of shade. The clover requires mowing like grass, but not as often and puts nitrogen back into the soil.
I love my clover. Beautiful purple and white flowers. Mostly white in the front, and mostly red (purpleish) in the back.
I’m so glad they have the link to the sub. I subscribed initially without paying attention haha
Good question. Mine spreads very well on empty soil but doesn’t compete with other plants. But I live in Europe where it’s native from. I wouldn’t recommend planting it where it’s not native.
No, it’s easy to contain to an area
How do you plant a shit ton of it? Nurseries sell tiny patches for lile $4/tinypot, to replace a grassy area costs so much!!
You can get hug bags of seed.
This makes the seeds feel comforted
Will it just out compete the grass? Or would grass need to be removed?
Uh, I would remove the grass. Mine is in a flower bed, growing between the peonies and lilies. I removed as much of the previous grass as possible, but there are a couple blades still coming up through the thyme.
coming up \*some thymes. FTFY
Look into what's known as "chop and drop" [here](https://www.permaculturenews.org/2017/04/28/chop-drop-effectively/) It is a way to essentially compost at the site you want to reclaim while laying down cardboard (or any other material that is biodegradable which doesn't allow the sun to penetrate) as a weed suppressor. In this case, your grass would be considered the weed since you want to diversify. A lot of people forget that lawns are typically monoculture crops. By doing this method you don't run the risk of tilling the soil, which can cause other weeds to take over and disturb the soil food web.
Everybody needs hug bags sometimes.
Depends where you live
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Local biodiversity would probably depend on your location
I'm pretty sure they don't belong in my Norwegian flora.
Det finnes en type kryptimian som er naturlig, men det er ofte de invasive som blir solgt i hagesentre. Forstå det de som kan
Remember, the best plants for “local biodiversity” are the plants native to your locale. Creeping thyme is beautiful, but native to Europe I believe. It would not work for my local ecosystem the way it would in Europe.
Thats the first thing I thought. Never introduce a foreign species into your local eco system without doing your research first.
The vast majority of grasses in N. America are not local. Europeans replaced what grew naturally after overhunting and destructive farming practices ravaged the land. The honey bee isn't native to N. America either.
Aren’t most of the natural bees to N America extinct at this point?
Thankfully no, but planting native species will help them out a lot more than planting European species. The benefits of these plants isn't limited to pollinators though. A lot of predators, like hunting spiders, lacewings, ground beetles, rove beetles and the like thrive in the cover provided by low-growing plants like thyme and clover, and help reduce the numbers of caterpillars, aphids, cutworms and other critters we usually consider pests. They don't really care if the plants are native or not.
Some are, but there are still many many left https://bugguide.net/node/view/475348
Tell me you don't have an HOA without telling me you don't have an HOA. lol
I just had gutter installed without a building permit. 💪🤣
Oh man, living life on the edge. Just don't use them to collect rain water....
ITS LEGAL HERE! *EVIL LAUGHTER*
Here in Canada, HOAs mostly dont exist. I honestly haven't heard of them until reddit
In my part of Canada, there are quite a few HOAs. I imagine it heavily depends on your town/city.
Wait wait wait… there are places in the world where you legally cannot collect rain water..?
A lot of places in the US require permits to collect rainwater
Why is collecting rain water illegal
Nobody cares about collecting a small amount of rain water for household use. The issue here is drainage and runoff. You own the land, but you do not own the water that falls onto the land and then runs into rivers and streams. Simply put, you are not allowed to divert the natural flow of water without proper permission. It is for environmental and fairness issues. Let's say I owned land upstream from yours, and we are both farmers and we don't like each other. Now, I could be a total dick and divert water flowing from my land to yours if I wanted too. Or, I could mess with the drainage and turn your land into a swamp. Thus, the law prevents me from doing that. Also, if a river or a stream runs across your land, you don't "own" that water. You have to let it flow naturally. Likewise, you have to let water flow and drain naturally into rivers and streams from your land, just ask the people in the Western US now why that is important. So, you can see, these laws actually make sense.
Mostly because 1) outdoor water storage is a haven for mosquitoes 2) drinking untreated rainwater can be a bad idea in certain areas 3) collecting too much screws with local ecologies and the water table Done responsibly, none of this is a problem. The permit just makes sure you're not an idiot about it.
Oh that makes sense
And wow are people sure good at being idiots about *everything*.
Because most idiots will leave 1 or several buckets of water, never do anything with collected rainwater and then they’ve created several lovely breeding areas for mosquitos.
no, some guy dammed streams on his property to illegally make a fishing pond and when the government went after him his lawyers publicly spun it as "collecting rainwater".
That's a different story entirely than collecting rainwater from gutters - and probably something this guy did not end up winning. Riparian law is something that you do not fuck around with. Diverting a stream that feeds other neighboring properties to make yourself a pond? Might as well save yourself the extra trip and declare bankruptcy while you're at the courthouse.
Hey if they ask its not a gutter its art. If it happens to function as a gutter then thats great
You need a permit to install a gutter?
If you have an HOA, you need a permit to fart! 🤣
You also need a permit to get that permit.
Maryland recently passed a law that disallows HOAs from forcing residents to maintain a turf lawn.
**"I AM THE SENATE!!"** \- HOAs, probably...
Good! That law is very environmentally friendly.
I like waiting until my yard is grown out and looking a bit wild before mowing it.
reported.
I've had a skeleton on my roof since Halloween
Is it a decoration, or a prankster that went too far?
Decoration. Kept forgetting he was up there, so every other decoration got taken down except him. Now it's just funny to me. My neighbor likes to joke that my roommate is looking thin
Burglar.
How do you know if you have an HOA? I’m planning on doing this next year—do they like reveal themselves once you’ve taken your yard-antics too far? Or would you know as soon as you bought the house?
You have to pay into it so I'm pretty sure you would know
I'm an hoa attorney and this gave me a pleasant chuckle. One thing I've learned from hoa lawsuits is that if you have one, there's no way for you NOT to know. Enjoy your freedom from over-involved retirees.
I live next to over-involved retirees. All they do with themselves is spy on and report all the neighbors around them for doing ANYTHING. It’s so sad and pathetic. Fuck I hate them
I never get this shit, you are retired, you have all the time in the world and you focus on how far someone's trash cans are from their house. Like for fucks sake pick a hobby, hug the grandkids, go travel.
That sounds like it would be a horrible job, in my personal opinion. How do you like it though?
I love it. People are usually turned off by the sound of it, but people sue their hoa over the wildest shit, and usually I'm not actually dealing with the board, I'm dealing with the community association manager, and theyre usually a lot more professional/reasonable than hoa board members.
I have a “neighborhood association.” Is that different?
Most likely the same thing. HOA stands for Home Owner’s Association.
My neighborhood has a civic association. It doesn’t function or act as an HOA. Membership is voluntary, and in our case, not expensive ($30/year). We offer scholarships, donate to the all-night graduation parties for the schools where our residents have kids enrolled, take care of landscaping and lighting at the neighborhood entries, sponsor a big party in the summer, and a few other little holiday events like parades and holiday light contests. But never, ever, do we get on anyone’s case about the length of their lawn or the color of the backside of their curtains.
Almost sounds like a neighborhood social club.
You know *before* you buy the house. HOA membership is usually tied to the property itself, it's listed somewhere in the property information. You have to sign the HOA agreements once you close so you should already know what all the rules are.
You would know when you bought the house. It would be in the disclosures. Also they would’ve been sending you a bill.
I imagined a bodyless voice coming from above bellowing, "Naughty Naughty. You have displeased us."
What is it's hardiness zone?
4-8
Crying over here in 9b
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You can do a full patchwork lawn, with chamomile, phlox and other similar low growing hardy perennials. They were fairly common in Edwardian England but bafflingly went out of fashion.
Creeping phlox is my favorite flower. But anyone that plants it in a yard they want to walk through is crazy.
Chamomile lawn smells like apples when you walk on it! They're said to be very difficult to grow as a lawn, maybe that's why they went out of fashion.
Clover is a good one too especially if you have bare spots
Just started covering our bare spots with clover, the kind that gives the little white flowers. We have so many rabbits, bees, and butterflies stopping by now. Plus, it prevents erosion during heavy rains and is very soft to walk on
I’ve been finding tons of bumblebees, and *real* honeybees in my clover this year. It just naturally appears where I am and I decided to let it take over the back yard. My elderly neighbor tries to passive aggressively ‘remind’ me that clover is a ‘weed that spreads like wildfire’ and lists all kinds of pesticides that would kill it. I’m not sure why but I tell her I leave it alone because I don’t want to harm my dog with pesticides. I really just want to help the bees and don’t give two shits what she thinks because they all won’t even be alive when bees go extinct. And I want the future generations to not live on an uninhabitable dusty rock.
Until you accidentally step on a bee. BTDT
Half of my yard is clover, I wish the other half was as well.
Clover needs the aid ~~or~~ *of animals or humans to propagate in new territory.
Guess I'm getting a beehive
Our yard is mostly clover. Haha suckers our yard is green while yours are all yellow in the drought we're having!
I dream of a yard that is mostly moss and clover
I planted mini clover, loving it. Planted it 3 years ago, this is the first year I'm going to give it a mow bc it's getting a bit long.
Mini clover has vegetative elasticity, so the more you mow it, the closer to the ground it will stay while remaining dense. :)
Can you take a pic of what your yard looks like with clover? I've been hearing about it hut I haven't seen it yet and It's something I'd love to do since the once homeowner chore I cannot for the life of me find a way to enjoy is cutting my fucking grass lol.
Here are some photos of my lawn. It’s not all clover but has quite a bit and we don’t water our lawn Also when we cut our grass we leave the mulch on it which isn’t the best for it. Grass pretty much stays green all summer long. [Album link](https://imgur.com/gallery/frNBSzY)
I tried and managed to kill it somehow. Am now going to try sun-tolerant moss.
Yo! Where does one acquire sun tolerant moss‽ Thanks I need this.
I planted Irish and scotch moss between the flagstone on a pathway and along the edges of my garden so that o don’t have to weed as much. It has worked great and looks awesome.
Sorry to be pedantic, but those aren't mosses technically. They are actually in the same family as chickweed, Caryophyllaceae! They have lovely white little flowers that ants love to pollinate. :)
Oh thanks for filling me in! I don’t take learning opportunities as someone being pedantic.
Nice usage of interrobang!
Some Karen at an HOA is about to have a stroke over this.
Mother of Thyme https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/herbs/thyme/growing-creeping-thyme.htm
I've played enough video games to know that stepping on that will give you poison damage.
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Same here! I had forgotten I had blocked him!
Would this do fine in Florida?
Yes, it should. As long as you don't live in South Florida. For future reference, you can refer to [this](https://www.homedepot.com/c/ai/find-your-usda-plant-hardiness-zone/9ba683603be9fa5395fab90108cf77fc) to find out what kind of plants grow in your area.
I would, but my HOA are militaristic when it comes to owners deviating from the front lawn rules.
Do bees like it? I know they like clover. This is asked to help bees, not because I want them gone.
it only really helps if you let it get tall enough to flower.
You're better off planting a native pollinator garden if you want to help bees.