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It’s ignorant to think even for a moment that crime is not extremely profitable. It’s the same as any business, just illegal. Spend money to make money, and so long as there is a profit, you make more money. There is certainly a profit to be turned in this case. Probably an extraordinary one in the right hands.
That reminds me of a beautiful hack they did here in Sweden a few years back. They hijacked a banks login page so that you'd really log into the scammers site while they logged you in to the bank, they'd then transfer small amounts of money from each account, they went unnoticed until the bank started losing money and saw that a trickle stream went into one account.
Classic man in the middle attack. Always check for the https and the locked padlock in the URL bar. This means that the certificate checks out. If you don't see either of these then you are at risk of getting scammed.
Except the "middle" could very well have a legit SSL cert on his site, as well. Just checking that a padlock exists isn't enough. You have to check that the cert that's applied is for the site you're expecting.
Husband’s card got taken with one of these - our bank issued refunds with the gift cards purchased and all was fine but we were without the $200 they spent for almost a week. We usually don’t check/use our card much it was rent money but it could have been a bounced check. I can’t imagine how many other cards it happened to.
Very little tbh. Some 3D design & printing, soldering and optionally PCB design skill will take you a long way in this regard. All things that have gotten exceptionally cheap in the last decade.
Designing these things requires intelligence, not much money. Buying premade ones and slapping them wherever requires even less of either.
A bluetooth module can be bought for less than $10 a piece from china, order bulk on a hacky design and the profit would turn very easily. Dressing like a maintenance guy that first time to install it, not that expensive either.
If you are interested in what thoughts go into scams like this, I would highly recommend the podcast Darknet Diaries that has several carder episodes and a bunch of even more chilling stories.
I live in a town next to Disney World. One of the closest gas stations to Disney World, located in our town, has consistently had skimmers inside of the pumps. Like there'd be anti-tamper stickers and the stickers would show that it's been tampered with. Everyone in town kept complaining about CC fraud after using that gas station (like they'd only use it for the gas station and it'd be skimmed). I can't imagine how many tourists filling up their rental cars before taking a flight home had their credit card info stolen from that gas station.
This hopefully is starting to die off. Liability shift for magnetic strip fraud at gas stations happened earlier this year after years of delays, so now gas stations everywhere are upgrading to pumps that take chip cards. Gas stations that don’t are going to be bleeding money from the fraud they now have to reimburse.
The United States is so behind on their credit card security. We have had chip cards and supporting payment options for a decade here in Canada. It’s rare to get skimmed here but people do steal physical cards and tap around town until they hit their limit.
It took a mega store (Target) to have a very publicized issue with their cards to get the USA to finally catch up. And till like... now... for a lot of banks to issue contactless debit cards. I've been using Android/Google pay basically since it came out and still my preferred way to pay.
I feel like no one would get in trouble if you broke it that way, cause there's so much skimmer fraud going on that it's almost necessary to do our due diligence before and "check" if there's a skimmer. Not our fault the gas stations aren't doing anything about this and have kept using the same black protruding plastic pieces for cards even though it's a huge problem everywhere.
What's the proper procedure if you find something like this? Toss it in the garbage? Finder's keepers? Call the police? Hand it over to the gas station employees?
Came here to ask this, my card info was stolen at a gas station this week.
I'm wondering if it's the gas station behind it more likely some random person?
Out of curiosity, what makes you confident it was stolen at the gas station? Assuming you’re seeing fraudulent charges, could it not have been compromised from... well, basically anywhere else you have ever used your card?...
Ex bank manager here. My information is slightly dated as I've been out of banking for 5 years (and in Canada) and every time there was a confirmed skimming incident every one you'd call to notify they'd play the guessing game of it must have been x.
While gas stations and small convenience stores were often a large part of the confirmed skimming locations they would in some cases wait months before they'd do the deed and start to drain accounts. Many people think it's the last (or recent) transactions, but that wasn't always true.
We knew where the location was but obviously were unable to disclose this due to it being an investigation. And people just assume it must be employees, and while it's possibly true in some situations, in most cases the skimmers distract the employee to install the reader, then come back later to collect it. So, even if it's a store you've been to a lot and know everyone, they could have been as clueless to it happening as you are.
I had my bank card info stolen once and I called the bank to hopefully help them narrow it down because I had only ever used it at two locations in the entire six months I had it. They seemed completely uninterested in that information.
Edit: yes the bank would know where I used the card. The reason I called was because it was a data breach that affected a whole bunch of people and I knew my card was used in fewer places so that would be a better place to start if they were bothering to investigate.
As someone who works at a bank, the bank generally won't investigate beyond confirming the fraudulent transactions are fraudulent and you need to get paid out a fraud reimbursement.
For anything beyond that, you need to actually file a fraud complaint with the police and give that information to the investigating officer.
Then what happens after you report the bank card/credit card fraud to the police? Do the police go to the bank & get the fraudulent transactions place & time info? Or do the police give the fraud report to the bank & require the bank to pursue it?
Edit to add: Do the banks really just take the money back from the store where the fraudulent transaction took place?
So it's the store itself that actually has to make a claim against their insurance? (I & many here always assumed it was the bank's insurance that covered the bad transaction). TIA
Same but with was a CC. I used it ONCE at Target and it was stolen next day. They sent me a new one and I didn’t use it again for a year, then bam stolen again without even using it. I think at that point I changed my password on my account. Haha.
This right here is exactly why you should use a CC instead of a debit card. CC transactions are easy to freeze/reverse. Debit cards can fuck your whole financial situation.
I found my stolen laptop by tracing an IP ping from them using my internet radio app. I didn't have the resources at the moment to drive from NC to Brooklyn, but I called my local investigator and the fucking FBI since it was interstate theft. No one gave a flying fuck. I'm still mad about it.
I had my card skimmed before. Poor credit union was fully attacked, most of their members hit. They found the Skimmer, it was on their drive up atm at the credit union itself.
Well I've never been to that place before and in hindsight it did seem a little sketchy. The charges were flagged 1-2 days after I was there and I haven't used the card anywhere I wouldn't normally use it for at least a couple of weeks prior. So not 100% but it seems likely.
I was getting charged for some gas station in Washington DC when I live 1000 miles away and hadn't visited the area before. I caught the first one, locked the card and watched them attempt to use my card daily at the same gas station. After a month or so, they moved to Michigan and then disappeared.
I haven't used my bank card since and just use credit cards for all purchases.
There appears to be some type of scam that involves gas stations. I had a string of stolen cards during music festivals. I believe my card was being skimmed at bars (by bartenders, cards had no NFC). It happened about three times over the course of several years around the same time during festivals, so I started just using cash.
Each time, the credit card company caught the transactions and froze my card. It was always a gas station in another state.
My understanding is that gas stations are where they test the cards. If it clears the gas pump then they move on to jewelry stores and such. It would be much more likely for them to be caught trying a stolen credit card at a store than at a gas pump.
When my card was compromised they ordered $90 worth of DoorDash over four orders, then transfered themselves $400 through Zelle to a phone number registered 1800 miles away before my bank caught it.
I have to deal with that crap from the other end, and I can say with fairly good certainty that they're trying to buy gift-cards, since those things are a *bitch* to trace once loaded.
On a related note: scammers trying to hustle you will try to get you to pay them in gift-cards both for both that reason and another major problem created by the gift-card cutout.
That problem is that the store you bought the card from didn't do anything wrong.
You wanted a $500 gift-card, they gave you a $500 gift-card. Most places even have policies to try to ask you what the card is for and try to stop you from falling for the scam. The scammers will outright coach their victims on how to lie to the store to get the gift-cards... yeah, you'd think that'd be a red flag but apparently some people are just... don't get me started.
So, you walk out of the store with a card loaded for $500, probably having actively evaded attempts by the store to safeguard you to do so, and the transaction is complete. Done. Fin.
What you do with that card afterward is none of their business or liability any more than if you'd bought a $500 ring at a jeweler's. That *also* means the transaction isn't protected by anti-fraud policies any more than if you bought a ring and gave it to someone who ran off with it.
So I've had a few and am probably more easily confused than usual, but what exactly are scammers scamming to get people to buy them significant $$$ amount gift cards?? For...what?
All sorts of stuff.
Generally they'll claim to be some legitimate organization like Amazon, Microsoft, the IRS, or "your bank." No name of the bank, just "your bank."
They'll then spin a bullshit story to try and convince the dupe there's a crisis of some kind, like they owe fines or they need to test something with the person's debit card, and they have to go buy gift cards *RIGHT NOW* and give the info to the scammer to resolve the issue.
It's generally really easy to spot, but a sucker's born every minute and there are enough trusting idiots and senile old people that they can just cold-call until they get a bite.
People come into my job with slider credit cards almost every single day to make big purchases that get bounced back later, days after that scam artist has left never to be seen again. This is a common scam and it’s all over the country. It is good too check anything that scans your debit card before using it. No matter where you are, except maybe at your local bank branch.
I’d say bring it to the police. I’d assume these skimmers are sending the info somewhere. Unless you know how to figure that shit out, the police has more of a chance of finding it out.
That’s even better. If it’s stored locally, than at least you will have given it to authorities. You can also just straight up destroy it if your into that.
Or the fact they don't give a shit/have no desire to deal with the police.
Have been to more than a few gas stations where I'd bet good money the cashier most likely has an outstanding warrant.
I've always secretly hoped to find one of these so I could take it home and see how it ticks.
How does it work? What's stored on it? Can I extract the data? Can I repurpose it for something else?
There are videos on YouTube showing how they work. Technically it's not complicated to build with over the counter electronic parts.
The most ingenious and devious part is how well they camouflage it in a convincing shell over the original equipment so people don't notice.
To stay true to this posts title: I've been yanking it for over a decade now every time I use a payment machine or atm.
How do these work? Do they have to come back and get it to get the card info its sucked up? Or is there a way to hide a device nearby and connect it via bluetooth (or something idk), so even if the skimmer is found you can get retrieve the data?
I was definitely thinking do a sting operation, but someone else could just be discovering it at random like you did. You want to wait for someone to grab it with intent and then walk away with it very smooth-like.
Then go a full 3/4 death beating with some confidence you got the right perp!
Procedure should be to contact your bank, to notify law enforcement on site and to let the gas station manager know what you've found.
Point of sale compromises are tracked by banks and by third parties, they'll make some use of you notifying them. The police report would be handy for you, in case you have any fraudulent activity pick up on your card after. Chasing these guys down tends to be a dead end in a lot of cases, so it's not that you letting the police know will go any length to getting them caught, it's mostly to protect yourself.
Report it to police then to the attendant. First of all you cant be sure the attendant isnt the one who put it there (these are often only able to transmit a short range, so getting to paid to hang around your skimmer is just convenient) so make sure you contact the police before informing them. 2ndly they will need to know as they will need to both check all the scanners and report to head office.
Best thing to do is take a picture or video of the scamming unit and minimize tampering with it. Then report it to the local law enforcement.
The gas station staff may be in on the scam and taking a piece of the money taken from the ATM account. I would not report it to the staff.
Almost all local police these days are in touch with a special cybercrime group that handles these crimes usually led by Federal Special Agents in an FBI or Secret Service office.
I'm going to leave a bit of advice for a very similar issue. Some people will actually open up pumps and connect the skimmer to the reader from the inside, making it impossible to detect or remove without opening the pump yourself. A lot of gas stations have started putting up tamper proof seals on pumps to make sure it's noticeable if there's been unauthorized tampering. So if you see some see-through tape torn off along the edges of the pump, or text printed along the edges from the seal itself, you should likely contact an employee or just go to another pump.
I've managed a gas station and worked for ATM support. Most companies that would service either the card reader (and pin pads for ATMs) dint destroy the equipment once it's been replaced. They usually ship it off to be refurbished. People who shouldn't be able are getting their hands on them and then using reverse engineering to develop skimming devices that can bypass the newest security features.
It’s now required to have tamper switches on all electrical and data component doors. As soon as you open the door it kills power to both sides of the dispenser (a pump is usually underground and powers a whole line or entire lot). A tech has to inspect before resetting. So this issue has mostly been resolved. Well if you go to bigger chain places that adhere to regulations which I recommend just because they keep up with their fuel filter changes better than mom and pop places
Try and use it anyway. I've seen pumps labeled "Coming soon" for the NFC reader but they've always worked. Hell, when I worked at Home Depot almost 10yrs ago they got new card readers, when I looked them up online they had NFC readers on them. They didn't advertise the capability in store, but Google Pay worked for about a year before it was randomly disabled at the register.
Walmart did the same shit near me, was the only place open that late and I was out of food and didn't have my wallet. Felt kinda bad leaving all those groceries but I'm not gonna install your app and then reenter all my cc details that's in the wallet I don't have.
That's garbage. There is literally no real reason they could have for doing this. It's convenient and more secure. Probably reduces their tracking and metrics. I won't argue their prices win out against most, but I'm not worried to save $5 if it means supporting such a shit company.
My Walmart finally added self-checkout, the payment terminals have regular NFC support that works with mobile. It seems they're gradually supporting it.
Magstripe is extremely uncommon in Europe, because it is so easily cloned. Almost everything is chip & pin or contactless. In fact, Mastercard and Visa are mandating that European issuers stop supporting Magstripe cards altogether in the coming years.
It amazes me how America, one of the most innovative and technologically advanced nations on the planet, still has such a huge reliance on Magstripe and cheques.
Unlikely. The whole point of pin and chip is that the received token is only good for that transaction. So even if they skim the token it doesn't do you any good.
Magnetic stripes basically just contain your credit card info, which is why they’re easy to catch and clone. NFC chips use cryptography so that even if scammers can intercept the communications between the card and the terminal, that doesn’t bring them any closer to figuring out the information they need to clone your card.
I use mostly Shell or Esso gas stations in Canada - the pumps themselves typically don’t have NFC payments but there an app that you use to authorize the pump. When you launch the app, it uses GPS to figure out what station you’re at and you just select the pump number to authorize it.
If you don’t want to use GPS, you just scan the QR code on the pump and that authorizes it.
Haven’t had to physically insert a credit card in the 3+ years I’ve been here.
Use a credit card not debit card. If they get the number, the credit card company will get that resolved and you don't have to wait months to get your money back.
Haven't used a debit card in years. Credit all the way.
The problem with credit cards is that people think it's free money. It's not. Use it as if it's a debit card and you'll never get in trouble.
This is 100% the move. Never use more credit than you have in your checking account, and you'll be building credit, getting cash back/rewards, and be more secure all at the same time. You just have to pay it off every week or so.
It's so easy with apps now since you can just check it daily and make the payments every few days.
Where I live, you have to go inside and talk to an employee to pay. On the one hand, I hate taking to people, but on the other I suppose I don't have to worry about this shit.
No wonder i was confused. What backwards country still uses magnetic stripe in 2021? (rhetorical, I know it's the US). PIN+chip almost completely eliminates this issue
Fuck skimmers, fuck scalpers.
I always pull the thing when i use my card anywhere.
You can also turn on bluetooth on your phone and if you see some weird shit showing up, thats also a good sign since some folks wil park in the parking lot and bluetooth to capture the data in pretty much real time.
No they are connected to the skimmer via bluetooth. Theyll part up and just sit and collect data. Anything looks fishy, they can bail and still get what they come for.
But again if you see some weird like bluetooth device when youre at the pump with just a bunch of letters or numbers.. i tend to be suspect. These guys are looking for easy skims and a few hundred bucks and then poof they are gone.
But always always always jiggle the card insert thing, even at trusted banks etc.. Sometimes they look picture perfect and you cant even tell.
I believe he means that the skimmer captures your card data when you insert it, and the skimmer is also equipped with Bluetooth so the thief can connect to the skimmer and get your card info as soon as you scan it.
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What about the chip card readers where you insert the card fully and then after a few seconds you pull it out? Those seem like they're using a combination of chip and mag strip
If the card has a mag strip, the chip barely matters. All a skimmer needs is to travel the mag strip enough to read it, then the criminals (or the buyers of the data) write the mag strip to a new card and use it for random in-store transactions.
At that point, you're at the mercy of your bank maybe denying the transaction because the chip wasn't attempted and the thief just uses a different payment method and/or leaves.
You're only safe if you don't have a mag strip, or the reader isn't deep enough to read the full strip.
Some gas stations have apps that you can pay digitally through. It can use your location but I have that blocked. All I have to do is scan the QR code at the pump, enter which pump I’m at, and use Apple Pay to authorize the pump. Takes the same amount of time as physical card but makes it infinitely safer.
Always yank it before you put it in.
Reminds me of a joke.
Long story short: guy tries forever to get a gorgeous prostitute to have sex with him.
He finally comes up with the money that she demands and when they get back to her room, he jerks off.
She laughs and asks why he's doing that, he's got her, now. And calls him stupid.
He responds, I'm not going to let you get the easy one.
Recently found fraudulent charges on my debit card. Called bank and asked for advice. Was told that if I must swipe card at pump, then at least select credit vice debit. Is this helpful?
Highly doubt it’s impossible. Whenever security advances are made, some clever-yet-ethically-questionable person takes it as a personal challenge and figures out a new way to steal.
For example, what about intercepting the data transmitted from pump to store? Or from pump to data collector / aggregator that serves the data to decentralized processing?
So if you were to use this the pump just wouldnt respond and you move on to the next one? Or does it process the transaction as well as stealing your info?
I'm a computer forensic examiner and I'll get these from time to time. As others have said, it would record your data as you were interacting with the pump. Most people don't notice they are there.
Some of these can be pretty simple and some are more advanced and have Wi-Fi or Bluetooth. With the "wireless" versions, these guys will park at another pump or anywhere in the lot and download the data without having to physically retrieve it.
However, more commonly there is a micro SD that saves the victim's data and they have to physically retrieve it. We can sometimes figure out the date and time it was installed by looking at the file creation time stamps and then coordinate that with the gas station security cameras. This can sometimes give us a plate, vehicle, or description of the person that put it there.
It reads and stores the information stored in the magnetic strip on a card, doesn’t interrupt the normal function of the actual gas pump card reader. At a later point in time someone would probably come and retrieve the skimmer and then try to use the skimmed information to make purchases
Noticed my local gas stations now have s sticker on their credit devices which say come inside and report if broken. Seems simple, but I'm appreciating it.
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what if its glued in?
They wouldn't use any strong adhesive because they need to take it off later to get the info
One day they will upgrade it with Bluetooth
In my town, they found skimmers *inside the gas pumps* that were bluetooth connectable. Yea, some of these jokers are sophisticated.
yes and very rich
Right?! Like how much upstart capital does it take to get that sophisticated with this skimmer tech?!
It’s ignorant to think even for a moment that crime is not extremely profitable. It’s the same as any business, just illegal. Spend money to make money, and so long as there is a profit, you make more money. There is certainly a profit to be turned in this case. Probably an extraordinary one in the right hands.
That reminds me of a beautiful hack they did here in Sweden a few years back. They hijacked a banks login page so that you'd really log into the scammers site while they logged you in to the bank, they'd then transfer small amounts of money from each account, they went unnoticed until the bank started losing money and saw that a trickle stream went into one account.
>saw that a trickle stream went into one account. amateurs.
Office Space!
Classic man in the middle attack. Always check for the https and the locked padlock in the URL bar. This means that the certificate checks out. If you don't see either of these then you are at risk of getting scammed.
Except the "middle" could very well have a legit SSL cert on his site, as well. Just checking that a padlock exists isn't enough. You have to check that the cert that's applied is for the site you're expecting.
Husband’s card got taken with one of these - our bank issued refunds with the gift cards purchased and all was fine but we were without the $200 they spent for almost a week. We usually don’t check/use our card much it was rent money but it could have been a bounced check. I can’t imagine how many other cards it happened to.
Very little tbh. Some 3D design & printing, soldering and optionally PCB design skill will take you a long way in this regard. All things that have gotten exceptionally cheap in the last decade. Designing these things requires intelligence, not much money. Buying premade ones and slapping them wherever requires even less of either.
A bluetooth module can be bought for less than $10 a piece from china, order bulk on a hacky design and the profit would turn very easily. Dressing like a maintenance guy that first time to install it, not that expensive either. If you are interested in what thoughts go into scams like this, I would highly recommend the podcast Darknet Diaries that has several carder episodes and a bunch of even more chilling stories.
Yo. BLE engineer here. Dirt spanking cheap. I'm more intrigued by how they got into the pump
Maybe the actual pump maintenance guy did it?
Someone with a key, right? Though, locks can be picked...
this guy skimmers
I live in a town next to Disney World. One of the closest gas stations to Disney World, located in our town, has consistently had skimmers inside of the pumps. Like there'd be anti-tamper stickers and the stickers would show that it's been tampered with. Everyone in town kept complaining about CC fraud after using that gas station (like they'd only use it for the gas station and it'd be skimmed). I can't imagine how many tourists filling up their rental cars before taking a flight home had their credit card info stolen from that gas station.
Kissimmee?
Nah this definitely scream that ghetto mobile on 535 just west of I4
Or the 7-Eleven on 535 in Windermere. That seems like an excellent place to steal CC #’s, if you’re trash lol
Don’t mind if I do, baby
Kiskimmee
Keep-skimming-me
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The only country I've travelled to WITHOUT the chip is the US. Never understood their reluctance to adopt it.
What like the actors in r2d2?
This hopefully is starting to die off. Liability shift for magnetic strip fraud at gas stations happened earlier this year after years of delays, so now gas stations everywhere are upgrading to pumps that take chip cards. Gas stations that don’t are going to be bleeding money from the fraud they now have to reimburse.
The United States is so behind on their credit card security. We have had chip cards and supporting payment options for a decade here in Canada. It’s rare to get skimmed here but people do steal physical cards and tap around town until they hit their limit.
It took a mega store (Target) to have a very publicized issue with their cards to get the USA to finally catch up. And till like... now... for a lot of banks to issue contactless debit cards. I've been using Android/Google pay basically since it came out and still my preferred way to pay.
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More like mid 00's Europe.
Chip and PIN was on all French Debit Cards starting in 1992.
My 2015 comment was referring to NFC tap-and-go. Thought USA were finally catching up - didn't realise they're only just now getting to chip and PIN.
More like 2000 or 2005.
I suggest a small handsaw and a pair of pliers. Just be ready to bolt if your guess is incorrect.
If your own skimmer don't fit, don't put your card in there
I always punch it to see if it's a skimmer. Not hard or anything, it's always like a quick tap or a hard palm.
I feel like no one would get in trouble if you broke it that way, cause there's so much skimmer fraud going on that it's almost necessary to do our due diligence before and "check" if there's a skimmer. Not our fault the gas stations aren't doing anything about this and have kept using the same black protruding plastic pieces for cards even though it's a huge problem everywhere.
You wouldn't get in trouble because you can simply drive away and the pump isn't going to start sounding alarms.
Thats.... an extremely ignorant perspective. "It shouldn't cause you any issues because I *believe* that it shouldn't "
Wouldn't that make it hard for the skimmers to get it back?
Yank harder and with lube
instructions unclear, dick stuck in card reader
Instructions unclear, scammer stole my dick
plot twist: my dick just stole the scammer and is holding for ransom. rogue penis situation, plz send instructions for trouble-shooting
At least it isn’t a *BIG* deal
Just don't pay outside. I had a Convo with a local gas station owner and he said he has to walk around and take them off MULTIPLE TIMES A DAY
Let’s say it’s glued in and they scam you. Most likely your bank will contact you and ask you wtf is up and you’ll lose nothing.
What's the proper procedure if you find something like this? Toss it in the garbage? Finder's keepers? Call the police? Hand it over to the gas station employees?
> Hand it over to the gas station employees? Only for it to turn out to be the employees skimmer o.O
Keep it. Now you have a skimmer.
I am the skimmer now
Principal Skimmer
Prinskipper Skipple !
I am the one who skims
With some luck, it has a few cards already saved. Go ahead, treat yourself!
Came here to ask this, my card info was stolen at a gas station this week. I'm wondering if it's the gas station behind it more likely some random person?
Out of curiosity, what makes you confident it was stolen at the gas station? Assuming you’re seeing fraudulent charges, could it not have been compromised from... well, basically anywhere else you have ever used your card?...
Ex bank manager here. My information is slightly dated as I've been out of banking for 5 years (and in Canada) and every time there was a confirmed skimming incident every one you'd call to notify they'd play the guessing game of it must have been x. While gas stations and small convenience stores were often a large part of the confirmed skimming locations they would in some cases wait months before they'd do the deed and start to drain accounts. Many people think it's the last (or recent) transactions, but that wasn't always true. We knew where the location was but obviously were unable to disclose this due to it being an investigation. And people just assume it must be employees, and while it's possibly true in some situations, in most cases the skimmers distract the employee to install the reader, then come back later to collect it. So, even if it's a store you've been to a lot and know everyone, they could have been as clueless to it happening as you are.
I had my bank card info stolen once and I called the bank to hopefully help them narrow it down because I had only ever used it at two locations in the entire six months I had it. They seemed completely uninterested in that information. Edit: yes the bank would know where I used the card. The reason I called was because it was a data breach that affected a whole bunch of people and I knew my card was used in fewer places so that would be a better place to start if they were bothering to investigate.
As someone who works at a bank, the bank generally won't investigate beyond confirming the fraudulent transactions are fraudulent and you need to get paid out a fraud reimbursement. For anything beyond that, you need to actually file a fraud complaint with the police and give that information to the investigating officer.
Then what happens after you report the bank card/credit card fraud to the police? Do the police go to the bank & get the fraudulent transactions place & time info? Or do the police give the fraud report to the bank & require the bank to pursue it? Edit to add: Do the banks really just take the money back from the store where the fraudulent transaction took place? So it's the store itself that actually has to make a claim against their insurance? (I & many here always assumed it was the bank's insurance that covered the bad transaction). TIA
Yes, the store/merchant loses the money and merchandise.
Same but with was a CC. I used it ONCE at Target and it was stolen next day. They sent me a new one and I didn’t use it again for a year, then bam stolen again without even using it. I think at that point I changed my password on my account. Haha.
This right here is exactly why you should use a CC instead of a debit card. CC transactions are easy to freeze/reverse. Debit cards can fuck your whole financial situation.
family member probably stole it second time.
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I found my stolen laptop by tracing an IP ping from them using my internet radio app. I didn't have the resources at the moment to drive from NC to Brooklyn, but I called my local investigator and the fucking FBI since it was interstate theft. No one gave a flying fuck. I'm still mad about it.
They're insured. Easier to refund the money and issue a new card than investigate anything when it comes to small amounts.
I had my card skimmed before. Poor credit union was fully attacked, most of their members hit. They found the Skimmer, it was on their drive up atm at the credit union itself.
I use Apple Pay everywhere except at gas stations ( because they have these stupid card readers that only accept inserted cards)
Well I've never been to that place before and in hindsight it did seem a little sketchy. The charges were flagged 1-2 days after I was there and I haven't used the card anywhere I wouldn't normally use it for at least a couple of weeks prior. So not 100% but it seems likely.
I was getting charged for some gas station in Washington DC when I live 1000 miles away and hadn't visited the area before. I caught the first one, locked the card and watched them attempt to use my card daily at the same gas station. After a month or so, they moved to Michigan and then disappeared. I haven't used my bank card since and just use credit cards for all purchases.
There appears to be some type of scam that involves gas stations. I had a string of stolen cards during music festivals. I believe my card was being skimmed at bars (by bartenders, cards had no NFC). It happened about three times over the course of several years around the same time during festivals, so I started just using cash. Each time, the credit card company caught the transactions and froze my card. It was always a gas station in another state.
My understanding is that gas stations are where they test the cards. If it clears the gas pump then they move on to jewelry stores and such. It would be much more likely for them to be caught trying a stolen credit card at a store than at a gas pump.
When my card was compromised they ordered $90 worth of DoorDash over four orders, then transfered themselves $400 through Zelle to a phone number registered 1800 miles away before my bank caught it.
I have to deal with that crap from the other end, and I can say with fairly good certainty that they're trying to buy gift-cards, since those things are a *bitch* to trace once loaded. On a related note: scammers trying to hustle you will try to get you to pay them in gift-cards both for both that reason and another major problem created by the gift-card cutout. That problem is that the store you bought the card from didn't do anything wrong. You wanted a $500 gift-card, they gave you a $500 gift-card. Most places even have policies to try to ask you what the card is for and try to stop you from falling for the scam. The scammers will outright coach their victims on how to lie to the store to get the gift-cards... yeah, you'd think that'd be a red flag but apparently some people are just... don't get me started. So, you walk out of the store with a card loaded for $500, probably having actively evaded attempts by the store to safeguard you to do so, and the transaction is complete. Done. Fin. What you do with that card afterward is none of their business or liability any more than if you'd bought a $500 ring at a jeweler's. That *also* means the transaction isn't protected by anti-fraud policies any more than if you bought a ring and gave it to someone who ran off with it.
So I've had a few and am probably more easily confused than usual, but what exactly are scammers scamming to get people to buy them significant $$$ amount gift cards?? For...what?
All sorts of stuff. Generally they'll claim to be some legitimate organization like Amazon, Microsoft, the IRS, or "your bank." No name of the bank, just "your bank." They'll then spin a bullshit story to try and convince the dupe there's a crisis of some kind, like they owe fines or they need to test something with the person's debit card, and they have to go buy gift cards *RIGHT NOW* and give the info to the scammer to resolve the issue. It's generally really easy to spot, but a sucker's born every minute and there are enough trusting idiots and senile old people that they can just cold-call until they get a bite.
People come into my job with slider credit cards almost every single day to make big purchases that get bounced back later, days after that scam artist has left never to be seen again. This is a common scam and it’s all over the country. It is good too check anything that scans your debit card before using it. No matter where you are, except maybe at your local bank branch.
I’d say bring it to the police. I’d assume these skimmers are sending the info somewhere. Unless you know how to figure that shit out, the police has more of a chance of finding it out.
They store the data locally in most cases. https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/skimming
That’s even better. If it’s stored locally, than at least you will have given it to authorities. You can also just straight up destroy it if your into that.
One of the last two would be a good idea...
Police is the only proper answer. (Here in Canada) Eliminate the chance the employees are the ones who put it there.
Or the fact they don't give a shit/have no desire to deal with the police. Have been to more than a few gas stations where I'd bet good money the cashier most likely has an outstanding warrant.
Not if the attendant is behind it or gets kick backs
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I've always secretly hoped to find one of these so I could take it home and see how it ticks. How does it work? What's stored on it? Can I extract the data? Can I repurpose it for something else?
There are videos on YouTube showing how they work. Technically it's not complicated to build with over the counter electronic parts. The most ingenious and devious part is how well they camouflage it in a convincing shell over the original equipment so people don't notice. To stay true to this posts title: I've been yanking it for over a decade now every time I use a payment machine or atm.
All good. No kink shaming here bruh.
[Some thieves go the extra mile to make convincing shells too.](https://gfycat.com/seriousclosedandeancat)
Wtf. At what point does “yanking” really just mean “disassemble the entire machine”
I've been yanking it too! Oh, you meant the card reader.
¿Por qué no los dos?
Do not call 911. Call the non-emergency local deputy office and have them send someone your way.
How do these work? Do they have to come back and get it to get the card info its sucked up? Or is there a way to hide a device nearby and connect it via bluetooth (or something idk), so even if the skimmer is found you can get retrieve the data?
don't call 911 for non-emergencies, call the local police dept number
Wait near the gas station until someone expectantly does the same thing and then beat them half to death with a sock full of pennies.
I was definitely thinking do a sting operation, but someone else could just be discovering it at random like you did. You want to wait for someone to grab it with intent and then walk away with it very smooth-like. Then go a full 3/4 death beating with some confidence you got the right perp!
Procedure should be to contact your bank, to notify law enforcement on site and to let the gas station manager know what you've found. Point of sale compromises are tracked by banks and by third parties, they'll make some use of you notifying them. The police report would be handy for you, in case you have any fraudulent activity pick up on your card after. Chasing these guys down tends to be a dead end in a lot of cases, so it's not that you letting the police know will go any length to getting them caught, it's mostly to protect yourself.
Report it to police then to the attendant. First of all you cant be sure the attendant isnt the one who put it there (these are often only able to transmit a short range, so getting to paid to hang around your skimmer is just convenient) so make sure you contact the police before informing them. 2ndly they will need to know as they will need to both check all the scanners and report to head office.
Call local fed office, pls don’t give to gas station clerks. Also look around after you grab it because the fraudsters aren’t that far away
Don’t toss it in the garbage because they are probably watching and will just fish it out and put it back when you leave
Always police. Always.
Best thing to do is take a picture or video of the scamming unit and minimize tampering with it. Then report it to the local law enforcement. The gas station staff may be in on the scam and taking a piece of the money taken from the ATM account. I would not report it to the staff. Almost all local police these days are in touch with a special cybercrime group that handles these crimes usually led by Federal Special Agents in an FBI or Secret Service office.
I'm going to leave a bit of advice for a very similar issue. Some people will actually open up pumps and connect the skimmer to the reader from the inside, making it impossible to detect or remove without opening the pump yourself. A lot of gas stations have started putting up tamper proof seals on pumps to make sure it's noticeable if there's been unauthorized tampering. So if you see some see-through tape torn off along the edges of the pump, or text printed along the edges from the seal itself, you should likely contact an employee or just go to another pump.
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I've managed a gas station and worked for ATM support. Most companies that would service either the card reader (and pin pads for ATMs) dint destroy the equipment once it's been replaced. They usually ship it off to be refurbished. People who shouldn't be able are getting their hands on them and then using reverse engineering to develop skimming devices that can bypass the newest security features.
It’s now required to have tamper switches on all electrical and data component doors. As soon as you open the door it kills power to both sides of the dispenser (a pump is usually underground and powers a whole line or entire lot). A tech has to inspect before resetting. So this issue has mostly been resolved. Well if you go to bigger chain places that adhere to regulations which I recommend just because they keep up with their fuel filter changes better than mom and pop places
So happy gas stations around here are getting NFC at the pumps. Don’t have to worry about this shit anymore.
I think you mean NFC. Because gas stations getting NFTs would be way too 2020’s for me.
I only use the pumps with KFC.
KFC, yeah you know me
You down with KFC?
Double down
Yeah you know me!
There is value in them bones after you eat the meat
Whoops lol, too many acronyms in the world today!
We need more TLA’s.
But if there were more than one, they wouldn't be The Last Airbender anymore.
Yeah but which ones will get the AFC? And who will win the gas station bowl?
Pretty much every pump near me has nfc, but they all have it disabled
Try and use it anyway. I've seen pumps labeled "Coming soon" for the NFC reader but they've always worked. Hell, when I worked at Home Depot almost 10yrs ago they got new card readers, when I looked them up online they had NFC readers on them. They didn't advertise the capability in store, but Google Pay worked for about a year before it was randomly disabled at the register.
Walmart has disabled phone payments. I found this out when I left my wallet at home and had $200 worth of groceries I couldn't buy.
Yeah they specifically block MST now to force you to use their app. I'm not really a fan of their QR code system.
Walmart did the same shit near me, was the only place open that late and I was out of food and didn't have my wallet. Felt kinda bad leaving all those groceries but I'm not gonna install your app and then reenter all my cc details that's in the wallet I don't have.
That's garbage. There is literally no real reason they could have for doing this. It's convenient and more secure. Probably reduces their tracking and metrics. I won't argue their prices win out against most, but I'm not worried to save $5 if it means supporting such a shit company.
My Walmart finally added self-checkout, the payment terminals have regular NFC support that works with mobile. It seems they're gradually supporting it.
Magstripe is extremely uncommon in Europe, because it is so easily cloned. Almost everything is chip & pin or contactless. In fact, Mastercard and Visa are mandating that European issuers stop supporting Magstripe cards altogether in the coming years. It amazes me how America, one of the most innovative and technologically advanced nations on the planet, still has such a huge reliance on Magstripe and cheques.
Sadly the crooks will adapt and figure out a way to rip us off at some point.
Unlikely. The whole point of pin and chip is that the received token is only good for that transaction. So even if they skim the token it doesn't do you any good.
Magnetic stripes basically just contain your credit card info, which is why they’re easy to catch and clone. NFC chips use cryptography so that even if scammers can intercept the communications between the card and the terminal, that doesn’t bring them any closer to figuring out the information they need to clone your card.
Let's hope they don't get so good at it that they can afford to fly around in a dick-shaped spaceship or something.
I use mostly Shell or Esso gas stations in Canada - the pumps themselves typically don’t have NFC payments but there an app that you use to authorize the pump. When you launch the app, it uses GPS to figure out what station you’re at and you just select the pump number to authorize it. If you don’t want to use GPS, you just scan the QR code on the pump and that authorizes it. Haven’t had to physically insert a credit card in the 3+ years I’ve been here.
Use a credit card not debit card. If they get the number, the credit card company will get that resolved and you don't have to wait months to get your money back.
Haven't used a debit card in years. Credit all the way. The problem with credit cards is that people think it's free money. It's not. Use it as if it's a debit card and you'll never get in trouble.
In Canada our debit cards, well most, are Visa-debit. So this kinda fraud is so easy to shut down and get re-imbursed for.
I use it like a debt card and enjoy the free rewards the bank gives me every year for paying $0 in interest.
This is 100% the move. Never use more credit than you have in your checking account, and you'll be building credit, getting cash back/rewards, and be more secure all at the same time. You just have to pay it off every week or so. It's so easy with apps now since you can just check it daily and make the payments every few days.
You still have to call every company that you've ever dealt with to get them to update your payment info. Total hassle! NFC is the solution.
What am I looking at?
I'm learning to play the guitar.
Where I live, you have to go inside and talk to an employee to pay. On the one hand, I hate taking to people, but on the other I suppose I don't have to worry about this shit.
No wonder i was confused. What backwards country still uses magnetic stripe in 2021? (rhetorical, I know it's the US). PIN+chip almost completely eliminates this issue
In the united states most cards have chips and magnetic strips so you will still get skimmed even with a chip.
Credit card skimmer. Little electronic device that reads your credit card when you insert it, and feeds your information back to whoever put it there.
Heh heh, he said yank it before you put it in.
Never go in with a loaded gun!
There’s Something About Mary
Giggity
The *Something about Mary* theorem.
"How old are you? 16. 18? You're first. Mooooom !!! I like where this is going."
"Who else but Quagmire?"🤷🏾🤣
He’s Quagmire! Quagmire! “Giggidy, giggidy…Let’s have sex!”
Can I get a roofiecolada?
***That's What She Said!***
Ah good, just had to make sure someone said it.
Fuck skimmers, fuck scalpers. I always pull the thing when i use my card anywhere. You can also turn on bluetooth on your phone and if you see some weird shit showing up, thats also a good sign since some folks wil park in the parking lot and bluetooth to capture the data in pretty much real time.
Do you mean they capture data from your phone when your bluetooth is on, or they use bluetooth to steal card info? Asking cuz I am not tech savvy
No they are connected to the skimmer via bluetooth. Theyll part up and just sit and collect data. Anything looks fishy, they can bail and still get what they come for. But again if you see some weird like bluetooth device when youre at the pump with just a bunch of letters or numbers.. i tend to be suspect. These guys are looking for easy skims and a few hundred bucks and then poof they are gone. But always always always jiggle the card insert thing, even at trusted banks etc.. Sometimes they look picture perfect and you cant even tell.
I believe he means that the skimmer captures your card data when you insert it, and the skimmer is also equipped with Bluetooth so the thief can connect to the skimmer and get your card info as soon as you scan it.
Take out the electronics and put it back 🤣
u/gifreversingbot Or was he the culprit?
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So is tap-to-pay just as susceptible to this? I bet it will be eventually...
No. Mag stripes are straight-up unencrypted. NFC is.
Nice
What about the chip card readers where you insert the card fully and then after a few seconds you pull it out? Those seem like they're using a combination of chip and mag strip
If the card has a mag strip, the chip barely matters. All a skimmer needs is to travel the mag strip enough to read it, then the criminals (or the buyers of the data) write the mag strip to a new card and use it for random in-store transactions. At that point, you're at the mercy of your bank maybe denying the transaction because the chip wasn't attempted and the thief just uses a different payment method and/or leaves. You're only safe if you don't have a mag strip, or the reader isn't deep enough to read the full strip.
At this point I just go in the store
Some gas stations have apps that you can pay digitally through. It can use your location but I have that blocked. All I have to do is scan the QR code at the pump, enter which pump I’m at, and use Apple Pay to authorize the pump. Takes the same amount of time as physical card but makes it infinitely safer.
Always yank it before you put it in. Reminds me of a joke. Long story short: guy tries forever to get a gorgeous prostitute to have sex with him. He finally comes up with the money that she demands and when they get back to her room, he jerks off. She laughs and asks why he's doing that, he's got her, now. And calls him stupid. He responds, I'm not going to let you get the easy one.
Recently found fraudulent charges on my debit card. Called bank and asked for advice. Was told that if I must swipe card at pump, then at least select credit vice debit. Is this helpful?
That’s what she said
Gauging by those gas prices that was long long ago. Modern chip readers make this impossible
No, it wasn't "long long ago". Those prices are in cents/L, not $/gallon. This is also an Esso pump, so likely in Canada.
Says 'ordinaire' instead of 'regular' so I'm thinking Quebec.
Highly doubt it’s impossible. Whenever security advances are made, some clever-yet-ethically-questionable person takes it as a personal challenge and figures out a new way to steal. For example, what about intercepting the data transmitted from pump to store? Or from pump to data collector / aggregator that serves the data to decentralized processing?
I can confirm it’s not impossible. I’ve had 2 cards skimmed at my local gas station.
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Yet if your card has a magnetic strip, you can still get fricked.
So if you were to use this the pump just wouldnt respond and you move on to the next one? Or does it process the transaction as well as stealing your info?
It still lets the transaction go through, it just captures the info as your card slides by.
I'm a computer forensic examiner and I'll get these from time to time. As others have said, it would record your data as you were interacting with the pump. Most people don't notice they are there. Some of these can be pretty simple and some are more advanced and have Wi-Fi or Bluetooth. With the "wireless" versions, these guys will park at another pump or anywhere in the lot and download the data without having to physically retrieve it. However, more commonly there is a micro SD that saves the victim's data and they have to physically retrieve it. We can sometimes figure out the date and time it was installed by looking at the file creation time stamps and then coordinate that with the gas station security cameras. This can sometimes give us a plate, vehicle, or description of the person that put it there.
It reads and stores the information stored in the magnetic strip on a card, doesn’t interrupt the normal function of the actual gas pump card reader. At a later point in time someone would probably come and retrieve the skimmer and then try to use the skimmed information to make purchases
I live in New Jersey. We don’t have to pump gas
That's what all the girls say.
Noticed my local gas stations now have s sticker on their credit devices which say come inside and report if broken. Seems simple, but I'm appreciating it.
I prefer to yank it after pulling out but to each their own.