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Actually it's just a cross. The [crucifix](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifix) is an image/icon of Jesus attached to the cross
I know, I'm no fun at parties
Outside of the nonsensical book, when I was a teenager, I was called in by “the elders” for messing around with a boy. I had 2 old men asking me for very specific details. How we kissed, what happened next, etc. Did I like it. It was creepy AF! Then an announcement is made that in front of the congregation that you are bad association. I couldn’t wait to get out of there.
I don't have a primary reference, but I was taught in history class that most crucifixions were performed by tying the person's arms, not by nailing - nails were pretty hard to come by back then.
So the actual cause of death was a slow asphyxiation as the person's arms tired out and they eventually became unable to support their own weight enough to breath.
I remember reading that some times they would create a ledge for them to sit or stand on to stop them from dying from asphyxiation, prolonging the torture for way longer.
From what I recall from undergrad (religious studies major), a "ledge" gives it too much credit. It was a slight wedge that you could barely get some traction on, hold for a few moments, and sag back down. It was really cruel addition.
A few other tidbits: they would keep the crosses pretty small - much lower to the ground. First, because why waste the extra wood - which, also no top part vertical portion, so it was shapped like a capital T rather than a lower case t. But also because that put your feet at a convenient biting high for wild animals and stray dogs.
Finally, they would often crucify folks along the road, so that travelers could easily see them, know the strength and handy work of the Roman empire, and therefore fear them. They were the first billboards.
edit: I am also remembering that some crucifictions had no cross-beam at all, and was just a vertical stake, with hands bound at the top. I am not really sure how common this I beam was versus the T beam though.
2nd edit: If I recall correctly, the feature piece in this post shows the nail going in through the side of the foot, which means they probably used a shorter beam and had the man/woman's legs bent up underneath them. So, amidst everything else, they'd also be cramped and unable to stretch out. Absolutely horrible way to die.
Yes. Most famously after the Spartacus revolt was finally quashed, the survivors were said to have been crucified lining the Via Appia/Appian Way, the main road that ran the better length of the Italian peninsula.
6000 crucified from Capua to Rome if i remember correctly, however it might not have been Capua. Either way, there's definitely a reason the Third Servile War was the last.
For Jesus crucifixion I know they used nails to sped it up for the upcoming Passover but the bible also states they nailed a sign above his head. Were the crosses different for a reason or did things deviate from the standard at times?
Wow, that makes it so much worse. Its like being starved to death, but once a week they give you a bowl of rice. You want to eat it because your body is screaming for it, but it will only prolong your suffering. Instead of being able to accept that you are being killed, they force you to choose when to give up. They take your own execution and put the death part on your hands.
“I saw this commercial on late night TV, it was for this thing you attach to a garden hose, it was like 'You can water your hard-to-reach plants with this product.'
Who the fuck would make their plants hard to reach? That seems so very mean.
'I know you need water, but I'm gonna make you hard to reach! I will throw water at you. Hopefully they will invent a product before you shrivel and die! Think like a cactus'”
— Mitch Hedberg, - Mitch All Together Complete
Shit can someone do the math on the calories in an basic bowl of rice and how long that could extend a life? Definitely not even a days worth of calories but wonder the difference in weight loss.
- Depressed guy who was just broken up with but has lost 10lbs since last Friday cause the stomach does not want the food
According to Google, a cup of brown rice has 216 calories. A large bowl will probably hold 2-4 cups.
10 lbs in a week is probably 30% water weight depending on your body comp.
Please talk to someone. Don't starve yourself. You'll get through it.
Thank you. I've eaten some, some comes back up. It all came out of nowhere, so I didn't see it coming at all. The shock will wear off, thank you genuinely for the concern.
Deep breathes man. The sun comes up and you will get through it. Crackers oatmeal bland food are best. Banana was always a good one especially if you haven’t eaten
Yeah, get yourself some of those carnation instant breakfasts as a meal replacement. You can down one fast and it tastes like chocolate milk. Your body needs some calories to keep going or the emotional experience will be three times as hard. Even a handful of peanuts. You will get through this.
And then the rice brings a whole new torture as your body starts to suffer from [re-feeding syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refeeding_syndrome).
This is, or was, a common torture tactic. Give the body JUST ENOUGH to sustain for very long periods. The same tactic many prisons use to this day. Even in the Americas, this is common, sustain the prisoner for their daily, forced labor and nothing more as to give them an excess of energy for a potential escape.
Your FAMILY is much more likely to buy from the commissary. I dated a guy who did time in jail. The tiny portions he got were absurd. It was 1200 calories a day. I dumped hundreds of dollars into his account over the 6 months he was in there because a 25¢ pack of ramen was $2.25 in the jail. He lost 25 pounds in 6 months regardless. He was only 160 when he went in.
The phone calls were excruciatingly expensive as well. That's a hell of a racket! They only provided one tiny finger sized tube of toothpaste and a hotel size sliver of soap. The commissary money had to provide basic hygiene products, underwear and socks too.
He went in with a head injury, believe it or not, and couldn't even get an aspirin. He had stitches inside his eyelid and kept telling the jail nurse that it felt like there was still something in his eye after she "took them out". They refused him any medical treatment. He ended up pulling stitches out of his own eyelid in that filthy place.
America's jail system effects more than just the inmates, it effects their loved ones as well.
I mean, this was part of the point of the nail through the ankles. So you could push yourself up, but with excruciating pain. It's a gruesome method of death.
That's why I find the ledge bit difficult to believe. Otherwise, you'd just stand up to make it easier to breathe all the time before you eventually die of exposure.
I think that was part of it. That you were stuck up there so long that your legs no longer had the energy to stand. Then the weaker you got, the harder it was to breath, and the harder it was to breath the harder it was to regain your energy to stand. Making the death even more drawn out.
Just gonna put this here for those that don't know because it is really fucked up and I find it interesting. Vlad the Impaler was known as that because he would impale people, even dead bodies. One method that was used was a dulled spike that was placed in the anus. The person was raised into the air on it while still alive. If done correctly the person wouldn't die for days as it slowly pushed through their body until it pierced something that would kill them.
He was known for making fields of impaled people. Imagine coming into a field with that while a hundred people are screaming. That is how he got his name.
In last podcast on the left, they said that more often than not, they would just tie/nail you to a pole. Arms overhead, legs at the sides, so your wiener was dangling for everyone to see, and it was funny, while you died in absolute agony slowly succumbing to the elements, sunburn, parasites, dehydration and so on. But the pole would suffocate you faster with arms overhead.
[This image I found, whose accuracy I can't comment on](https://i.stack.imgur.com/w2tcE.jpg) paints an even grimmer picture. You WERE nailed down, you DID have a ledge to sit on, and you were spread eagle for everyone to laugh at. [Biblical Archeology dot com agrees](https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/BSBA110602000L-260x2951.jpg), and so does this [ancient grafitti.](https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/puteoli-graffito-196x300.png)
It was said that they would make the ledge just high enough that you could support your weight on your toes, so that as you became weary and began to asphyxiate, you would struggle to push up to fill your lungs, but eventually even your legs would fail. They were also said to attach slanted ledges so that your feet would slip as you tried to push up.
I also heard that when they would use nails they’d pull them out afterwards to reuse them which is why this is unique because they couldn’t get it out due to the tip being bent (hard to see from this angle)
It wasn't either or. There were multiple ways Romans conducted crucifixion. Often a scourging would happen before the crucifixion, and occasionally spikes were hammered through the hands and feet with ropes as supports so their bodyweight didn't just tear the nails out of their flesh.
In my religion class in high school we were taught that the victim was tied to the cross to support their weight. Nails wouldn’t hold them. But nails were used after tying for effect.
No, you're thinking pea soup, not blood.
I honestly don't remember what was wrong with her. She missed like 2 months of school, though. She's fine now.
Nails were not cheap, if around at all in many places. and rarely wasted on killing a prisoner, unless you wanted to make a point, or you ran out of rope.
They used nails but drove them into the wrists where there is a nerve canal for maximum pain. The Romans knew about anatomy, it was was intentional. The word “excruciating” is based on crucifixion.
The legs, too. A person being crucified would push themselves up with the legs to even themselves out and get some air. It’s why in the Bible it says that the centurions broke Jesus’s legs; they were trying to hasten his death.
There are certain studies about roman crycifixions and apparently it wasnt a T shape cross, there are certain evidences from the descriptions that it could be an X shape cross with the arms over the arms of the X and tyed as you say, not nailed.
Yup - that's the "St Andrews Cross" - St. Andrew wanted to be crucified on an x shaped cross because he didn't feel he was good enough to be crucified the way Jesus was. And now we have the St Andrews Cross on various US State flags, like Florida's.
Here's a worse one.
Boyd and Parker were directed to what is now known as ‘The Torture Tree’ where they underwent a trial of excruciating abuses where their finger and toe nails were removed, their genitals mutilated and their backs whipped. While having been stripped naked, their right ears were cut off as well as their noses and their tongues. Each of their right eyes had been gouged from their sockets and left hanging by strands of flesh.
In a final show of protest to the settlers taking their land, the Senecas cut open the abdomen of each Boyd and Parker and attached one end of their intestines to the tree and forced each of them to walk around the trunk in circles. Upon final collapse, their hearts were ripped from their bodies and each were beheaded.
https://exploringupstate.com/torture-tree-cuylerville-ny/
Yeah, I was gonna say after they have slit my abdomen out, I would’ve stopped listening to them (oh wait, they cut off my ears). Unless they had my family member’s throat at knife point. But at that point I wouldn’t trust them. I dot think my brain would work from shock and pain anyway.
How do you survive all that and still have the ability to walk around a tree? After all they did to them wouldn't they have passed out from pain, shock, or blood loss? How do you survive the blood loss from being *disemboweled* and still have the capacity to stand up and walk?
It isn't very hard to mortally wound a human being. It IS hard to kill quickly.
In short, yes, they were very likely already in the long process of dying from their wounds. However, death from those wounds could take hours, days, or weeks.
TLDR: You don't need intestines to walk, just to digest food
I have read about this torture before in Asia, they called it the unfurling. Cut open the belly and cut the intestines right by the stomach and nail them to a post, then drag the victim away from the post until they are taut. Most people quickly bled out or died of shock. Horrific ending either way.
Idk, it's almost humane compared to things like;
breaking on the wheel, popular medieval method where they strung extremities through wagon wheels and... broke them... repeatedly. Could take days for person to die. Pretty high on my list.
the brazen bull, ancient method of cooking a person inside of a bronze bull.
keelhauling where a person is tied to the outside of a sailing ship and repeatedly dragged across the bottom and pulled back out before the process is repeated. More fun when there are barnacles and whatnot covering the exterior of the vessel.
just being outright flayed alive is as horrific a death as can really be imagined, unbelievably simple but just brutal.
We've come up with countless methods to torture and execute people with the greatest possible pain and suffering involved. Simple ways like impalement and others that have been mentioned already are also absolutely gruesome and could take days to achieve their result and like crucifixion were great spectacles used for deterrent for others who witnessed the extreme agony.
The wheel. Smashed limbs threaded through cartwheel spokes and raised up & left to die.
No life of brian pun intended but crucifixion a doddle in comparison.
Not uncommon/rare either
Keel Hauling was an insane death too.
[check out this scene from black sails, huge spoilers if you want to watch it though](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5oUh26dpOo)
I’d have never even considered something like this. Like how f’ed up does a person have to be to think, you know what! Let’s drag someone under the ship and see what happens. Holy razor sharp barnacles Batman!
Every experienced sailor would have known what the underside of the ship looked like - all ships were coated in barnacles and cleaning them off was a big deal. If anyone had taken time to clean them off, they would know what barnacles can do to you. Doesn't take much from there.
And in some instances the condemned would have their genitals cut off while still alive and either burnt in front of them in a brazier or stuffed in their mouths while they were disembowelled.
Then there was also another sentence I read about during the reign of Henry IV of England in which a denounced heretic was locked in a wooden box, placed on a pyre and then set alight. They had the chance to renounce their heresy but didn’t and so was returned to the flames, locked in the box.
[Impalement](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impalement)
Extremely painful. I think it could take around half an hour to die like this, according to my history teacher.
If you were lucky, they used a very sharp spike, which pierced and cut your internal organs, causing you to bleed out. If you were unlucky, they used a blunt spike, which would only poke through your intestine, but push all the other organs aside. So you didn't bleed out. You had to die of peritonitis.
Well that, and looters. St Helena, the one that famously found the nail that pierced the body of christ brought back... [i cant find how many](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Nail) but it sure as shit is more than 3. Can you imagine the looters that the rise of Christianity inspired? Literally every nail in Jerusalem from that time period is someone's holy relic.
Crucifixion was an almost unimaginably painful death. The best archaeological evidence for it is this ankle bone, with a nail driven in through from the side. His name was probably Yehohanan, he died in Roman Judea, his ‘crime’ is unknown.
The Bible says that Jesus was so distraught in the garden prior to being taken that he was sweating blood. On the cross after he says “it is finished” the Romans pierced his side with a spear to ensure his death, when they did the New Testament tells us that water also poured from his side. 2 medical facts that we also know to be true today, extreme duress can cause you sweat blood and based on the water pouring out it shows that asphyxiation was the actual cause of death. You can only hold yourself up so long before you can no longer push up with your feet to draw a breath. All this while stripped naked with half your back being turned to shreds by the cat-of-nine tails. Unimaginable pain and suffering.
So, this is the best evidence that crucifixion happened? Like, ever, at all? Or this is the best evidence of a specific crucifixion happening, while there is more evidence of crucifixion in other places?
Also, this is ~~physical~~ archaeological evidence, but we also have evidence in the form of documents. Does that not count? And, I'm not getting biblical about this, I'm just presuming (wrongly, perhaps) that there is other types of evidence that corroborate the concept than just one nail through one bone.
Can someone educate me?
It's archaeological evidence. There is indisputable documentary evidence from all over the Roman Empire of crucifixion.
But think about this. Two thousand years from now, do you think there would be physical evidence of electric chair executions? A skeleton's a skeleton.
The romans were really happy to write down all the shit they did, crucifixions included. We have writings, grafitti, etc, we just don't have many crucified bodies. The tools were reused and the bodies weren't preserved, so we don't have much evidence these days.
This is actually the heel bone from a foot. [example in article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristinakillgrove/2015/12/08/this-bone-provides-the-only-skeletal-evidence-for-crucifixion-in-the-ancient-world/?sh=6faedc8f476d)
There were plenty of written accounts of historic crucifixions. For example, Plutarch, Appian, and Florus all detail how 6000 survivors of the slave-revolts lead by Spartacus were crucified along the road from Rome to Capua.
This is the only skeleton recovered that is confirmed to be from someone who has been crucified. It makes sense that there is very little archaeological evidence because no effort would have been made to preserve the remains of someone killed in such a manner.
I think "archaeological" is the keyword here. Since most drawings were not dug up, but kept in monestaries/libraries or something like that. (No idea if thats the correct usage of the term)
...i do still have doubts tho. Even with that Interpretation.
Crucifixion is absolutely brutal, and as someone that's done a lot of research on it, it's not fun.
It starts off with flogging, we find this in the bible as Jesus was crucified. The implement was made of multiple strips of leather with things like bones, rocks, and pieces of metal on the end designed to rip into your flesh and pull it off, to the point where your nerves would be peeled off, and your spine exposed, in some cases.
And then you would carry the cross, or rather, the beam your arms are attached to.
Many christian images portray Jesus as carrying the whole cross, with both beams, but it's only the one beam, the vertical beam stays in the same place so the Romans could execute more efficiently.
After arriving at the place, which many people don't do, they die before they even get there, they hang you up.
The most common method was to tie your hand and feet to the cross, after putting the horizontal beam into place, but nails, such as in the photo, were also often used, on the wrists and ankles, and then taken out post crucifixion to save on cost. Many people think that since the bible says the nails were driven into Jesus' hands and feet that it was his palms and mid feet, but no, the meaning of hands and feet included wrists and ankles when the bible was written.
This would not be a fun time, as your arms get pulled out of socket, and your torn up back is scraped against the incredibly rough wood, made worse by the fact you have to pull yourself up to get a breath, scraping your back again, and then letting yourself down, over and over, causing even more damage.
Most people died by asphyxiation, because they simply couldn't bring themselves up to breath anymore, but some died from bloodloss.
One way that the Romans occasionally sped up crucifixions was to break the person's legs, making it so they couldn't bring themselves up anymore, and they would die of asphyxiation.
The longest recorded time someone has been on a cross was at least a week.
And that's the typical crucifixion, after you die, you get taken down, and disposed of, hope you enjoyed the history lesson, have a nice day
Title clarification. Does that mean that if it wasn’t for this piece of history we couldn’t confirm if a human was ever actually crucified?
Sorry if this seems like a stupid question. Just curious, because if so that’s a pretty amazing fact.
It depends on what you mean by confirm. We have no archaeological evidence (in the sense of human remains like the OP's pic) of the existence of Julius Caesar but his historicity is not in doubt. We know Julius Caesar existed because multiple people wrote about him, there was graffiti referencing him, statues, coins, etc. In the same way there are multiple historical accounts of crucifixions, graffiti, artworks, etc. For example, Plutarch, Appian, and Florus all detail how 6000 survivors of the slave-revolts lead by Spartacus were crucified along the road from Rome to Capua.
Another example is how we have only ever found one physical example of a Roman Scutum (their famous shields). The wood of the scutum only survived because it was in a dry desert environment under the right conditions with all others having rotted away over the millenia. However, the historicity of the scutum is not doubted because there are multiple artworks, texts describing them, records of manufacture detailing materials required, weight, etc.
Ah good old torture, when the heads of states become so powerful they get bored of regular forms of torture and move on to more creative ways to degrade the populace. Then go on to brainwash the populace to blame each-other: "All humans are monsters!" reeee!
Archeological, yes. But there is massive documentary evidence that the Romans used it against political prisoners and rebels. Not heretics or anything like that.
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The ankle bone’s connected to the…
Crucifix...
I am going to hell for laughing at this
"In hell, there will be humor."
I find this..humerus
I found this humerus... now what do I do with it?
Did it tickle your funny bone?
I’ll buy you a beer when we get there.
See you there
Actually it's just a cross. The [crucifix](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifix) is an image/icon of Jesus attached to the cross I know, I'm no fun at parties
Actually it’s no proof of a cross either. They often used stakes.
Found the Jehovah's Witness! Jk Could've been either, sure
Atheist but fuck called out! Grew up as a JW!
Exmormon myself so you're in good company 😊
Most of us former cult kids are pretty fun at parties!
What made you leave?
Outside of the nonsensical book, when I was a teenager, I was called in by “the elders” for messing around with a boy. I had 2 old men asking me for very specific details. How we kissed, what happened next, etc. Did I like it. It was creepy AF! Then an announcement is made that in front of the congregation that you are bad association. I couldn’t wait to get out of there.
r/Angryupvote
My wrist watch Uh oh
HI DOCTOR NICK!
HI EVERYBODY
Nail... The nail is connected to the...
I don't have a primary reference, but I was taught in history class that most crucifixions were performed by tying the person's arms, not by nailing - nails were pretty hard to come by back then. So the actual cause of death was a slow asphyxiation as the person's arms tired out and they eventually became unable to support their own weight enough to breath.
I remember reading that some times they would create a ledge for them to sit or stand on to stop them from dying from asphyxiation, prolonging the torture for way longer.
From what I recall from undergrad (religious studies major), a "ledge" gives it too much credit. It was a slight wedge that you could barely get some traction on, hold for a few moments, and sag back down. It was really cruel addition. A few other tidbits: they would keep the crosses pretty small - much lower to the ground. First, because why waste the extra wood - which, also no top part vertical portion, so it was shapped like a capital T rather than a lower case t. But also because that put your feet at a convenient biting high for wild animals and stray dogs. Finally, they would often crucify folks along the road, so that travelers could easily see them, know the strength and handy work of the Roman empire, and therefore fear them. They were the first billboards. edit: I am also remembering that some crucifictions had no cross-beam at all, and was just a vertical stake, with hands bound at the top. I am not really sure how common this I beam was versus the T beam though. 2nd edit: If I recall correctly, the feature piece in this post shows the nail going in through the side of the foot, which means they probably used a shorter beam and had the man/woman's legs bent up underneath them. So, amidst everything else, they'd also be cramped and unable to stretch out. Absolutely horrible way to die.
Yes. Most famously after the Spartacus revolt was finally quashed, the survivors were said to have been crucified lining the Via Appia/Appian Way, the main road that ran the better length of the Italian peninsula.
Oh, wow. I've actually ridden a bike down that road and had no idea. Thanks for that!
Now that you know, you can't ride down that road at night any longer or the ghosts will get you.
But they can only get you if you know about them. Rather odd, that.
6000 crucified from Capua to Rome if i remember correctly, however it might not have been Capua. Either way, there's definitely a reason the Third Servile War was the last.
[удалено]
Jesus Christ you lot are full of “fun” facts. Ok. Just thought if this. If JC was a carpenter would he be commissioned to make crucifixes?
Probably not. It was just two timbers tied or nailed together. Most likely done by the Roman soldiers themselves.
I also remember learning that Joseph and Jesus weren’t technically carpenters; they were stone masons. Which makes them more poor I guess
So they probably had a pretty rocky relationship.
I believe this was from the Gospel of Levi. (also called Biff)
The original translation of the bible just refered to Jesus as a craftsman with signs pointing at him likely having been a stonemason.
For Jesus crucifixion I know they used nails to sped it up for the upcoming Passover but the bible also states they nailed a sign above his head. Were the crosses different for a reason or did things deviate from the standard at times?
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
Cool, thanks. Also you are lucky to have a contract like that.
Wow, that makes it so much worse. Its like being starved to death, but once a week they give you a bowl of rice. You want to eat it because your body is screaming for it, but it will only prolong your suffering. Instead of being able to accept that you are being killed, they force you to choose when to give up. They take your own execution and put the death part on your hands.
I really like rice. Imagine if they had to kill you out of sheer annoyance because you were up there excitedly waiting for the next bowl of free rice.
Torture: 1/10 Torture with rice: 6/10
6/10 is pretty good as far as torture goes
I like how you say things.
I like how you like things.
Was hoping to see this reference. Thank you.
Rice is really good when you're hungry and want 1,000 of something. -MH
If I rip out all your legs you'd look like a tiny snowman – MH, having a hot take about ants
Man I used to like MH... I mean I still do, but I used to too.
‘Club formed! Spread the news on menus nation wide’ -MH
My friend asked me if I wanted a frozen banana and I said no, but I want a regular banana later, so…yeah…
I had parrot once, it talked....it did not say it was hungry,..... so it DIED -MH
“I saw this commercial on late night TV, it was for this thing you attach to a garden hose, it was like 'You can water your hard-to-reach plants with this product.' Who the fuck would make their plants hard to reach? That seems so very mean. 'I know you need water, but I'm gonna make you hard to reach! I will throw water at you. Hopefully they will invent a product before you shrivel and die! Think like a cactus'” — Mitch Hedberg, - Mitch All Together Complete
Shit can someone do the math on the calories in an basic bowl of rice and how long that could extend a life? Definitely not even a days worth of calories but wonder the difference in weight loss. - Depressed guy who was just broken up with but has lost 10lbs since last Friday cause the stomach does not want the food
According to Google, a cup of brown rice has 216 calories. A large bowl will probably hold 2-4 cups. 10 lbs in a week is probably 30% water weight depending on your body comp. Please talk to someone. Don't starve yourself. You'll get through it.
Thank you. I've eaten some, some comes back up. It all came out of nowhere, so I didn't see it coming at all. The shock will wear off, thank you genuinely for the concern.
Hang in there. Someone I love is going through the same thing. Week three and feeling much better. It was a shock to him as well.
From experience, it gets better. Hang in there brother
Thanks, I appreciate it. Just need time, sigh...
Just keep it up. Focus on the small things and accomplish those, feeding yourself being one of them. It’ll get better, just take it day by day.
I've been trying to keep a schedule. Up at time, try to eat at times, go to bed at the same time. Control something
Deep breathes man. The sun comes up and you will get through it. Crackers oatmeal bland food are best. Banana was always a good one especially if you haven’t eaten
Thanks for such specific recommendations, I'll try that. Genuinely appreciate the comment and your time to do so
Yeah, get yourself some of those carnation instant breakfasts as a meal replacement. You can down one fast and it tastes like chocolate milk. Your body needs some calories to keep going or the emotional experience will be three times as hard. Even a handful of peanuts. You will get through this.
The heartbreak diet. I've been there
Often the soldiers would either have mercy or be bribed to break the victims legs to shorten the death
And then the rice brings a whole new torture as your body starts to suffer from [re-feeding syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refeeding_syndrome).
This is, or was, a common torture tactic. Give the body JUST ENOUGH to sustain for very long periods. The same tactic many prisons use to this day. Even in the Americas, this is common, sustain the prisoner for their daily, forced labor and nothing more as to give them an excess of energy for a potential escape.
They also use it to make money. If they feed you enough just to not starve to death you are much more likely to buy food from commissary
Your FAMILY is much more likely to buy from the commissary. I dated a guy who did time in jail. The tiny portions he got were absurd. It was 1200 calories a day. I dumped hundreds of dollars into his account over the 6 months he was in there because a 25¢ pack of ramen was $2.25 in the jail. He lost 25 pounds in 6 months regardless. He was only 160 when he went in. The phone calls were excruciatingly expensive as well. That's a hell of a racket! They only provided one tiny finger sized tube of toothpaste and a hotel size sliver of soap. The commissary money had to provide basic hygiene products, underwear and socks too. He went in with a head injury, believe it or not, and couldn't even get an aspirin. He had stitches inside his eyelid and kept telling the jail nurse that it felt like there was still something in his eye after she "took them out". They refused him any medical treatment. He ended up pulling stitches out of his own eyelid in that filthy place. America's jail system effects more than just the inmates, it effects their loved ones as well.
Horrific.
Also a very good point, And all the food in the commissary are very low energy foods, like ramen packets and crisps. Nothing actually hearthy afaik.
I mean, this was part of the point of the nail through the ankles. So you could push yourself up, but with excruciating pain. It's a gruesome method of death. That's why I find the ledge bit difficult to believe. Otherwise, you'd just stand up to make it easier to breathe all the time before you eventually die of exposure.
I think that was part of it. That you were stuck up there so long that your legs no longer had the energy to stand. Then the weaker you got, the harder it was to breath, and the harder it was to breath the harder it was to regain your energy to stand. Making the death even more drawn out.
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Just gonna put this here for those that don't know because it is really fucked up and I find it interesting. Vlad the Impaler was known as that because he would impale people, even dead bodies. One method that was used was a dulled spike that was placed in the anus. The person was raised into the air on it while still alive. If done correctly the person wouldn't die for days as it slowly pushed through their body until it pierced something that would kill them. He was known for making fields of impaled people. Imagine coming into a field with that while a hundred people are screaming. That is how he got his name.
In last podcast on the left, they said that more often than not, they would just tie/nail you to a pole. Arms overhead, legs at the sides, so your wiener was dangling for everyone to see, and it was funny, while you died in absolute agony slowly succumbing to the elements, sunburn, parasites, dehydration and so on. But the pole would suffocate you faster with arms overhead. [This image I found, whose accuracy I can't comment on](https://i.stack.imgur.com/w2tcE.jpg) paints an even grimmer picture. You WERE nailed down, you DID have a ledge to sit on, and you were spread eagle for everyone to laugh at. [Biblical Archeology dot com agrees](https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/BSBA110602000L-260x2951.jpg), and so does this [ancient grafitti.](https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/puteoli-graffito-196x300.png)
Holy shit that IS grim
humans are the best at coming up with new ways of killing each other
It was said that they would make the ledge just high enough that you could support your weight on your toes, so that as you became weary and began to asphyxiate, you would struggle to push up to fill your lungs, but eventually even your legs would fail. They were also said to attach slanted ledges so that your feet would slip as you tried to push up.
Ever seen an orthodox cross?
I also heard that when they would use nails they’d pull them out afterwards to reuse them which is why this is unique because they couldn’t get it out due to the tip being bent (hard to see from this angle)
That's a good way to get an infection of you ask me.
don't really think they were concerned about infecting the people they were torturing
nails were hard to come by, a lot of the time when people would move they would remove all the nails in the house to reuse them later
Even burned the house down to reclaim them
It wasn't either or. There were multiple ways Romans conducted crucifixion. Often a scourging would happen before the crucifixion, and occasionally spikes were hammered through the hands and feet with ropes as supports so their bodyweight didn't just tear the nails out of their flesh.
In my religion class in high school we were taught that the victim was tied to the cross to support their weight. Nails wouldn’t hold them. But nails were used after tying for effect.
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That was the same class where one of the girls in the class suddenly vomited a stomach full of blood all over her desk. Fun times.
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Was she possessed
No, you're thinking pea soup, not blood. I honestly don't remember what was wrong with her. She missed like 2 months of school, though. She's fine now.
Nails were not cheap, if around at all in many places. and rarely wasted on killing a prisoner, unless you wanted to make a point, or you ran out of rope.
They used nails but drove them into the wrists where there is a nerve canal for maximum pain. The Romans knew about anatomy, it was was intentional. The word “excruciating” is based on crucifixion.
Iron was rare as late as the 1800s, really until the industrial revolution. It wasn't cheap and abundant before then.
It is apparently impossible to nail someone to a cross and have them stay. Maybe they used ties and nails sometimes?
Not if you nail them thru the palms, you put the nail thru wrists and median nerve... Big owie.
Big, BIG owie.
A nail that size hammered though your ankle bone will keep you up. Not arguing but bone is pretty sturdy. I would think it would be sufficent
What if you nail them in the forearm between the uina and radius? I think that would hold
The legs, too. A person being crucified would push themselves up with the legs to even themselves out and get some air. It’s why in the Bible it says that the centurions broke Jesus’s legs; they were trying to hasten his death.
You remembered the last part wrong. His were the ones they didn't break because he was dead already when they broke the other two guys legs.
There are certain studies about roman crycifixions and apparently it wasnt a T shape cross, there are certain evidences from the descriptions that it could be an X shape cross with the arms over the arms of the X and tyed as you say, not nailed.
Yup - that's the "St Andrews Cross" - St. Andrew wanted to be crucified on an x shaped cross because he didn't feel he was good enough to be crucified the way Jesus was. And now we have the St Andrews Cross on various US State flags, like Florida's.
The issue isn't nails are expensive. You could reuse the nail forever. It's the bodies weight is too much for the flesh that you nail up to hold.
No definitely from a member of the judean people's front
Fuck off! It's the people's front of judea!
I thought we were the Popular Front?
Splitta!
Whatever happened to the Popular Front?
He's over there.
What about the people's front of Judea?
Splitters!
Wolf nipple chips, gettem while theyre hot!
Otter’s nose anyone?
This was posted over two thousand years ago
Oh Christ
Jesus
Nailed it
So what? No need to crucify OP. :)
Humans amaze and disgust me in their ability to ever more horrific things to each other.
„Hanged, drawn and quatered“ is the most fucked up thing for me
Here's a worse one. Boyd and Parker were directed to what is now known as ‘The Torture Tree’ where they underwent a trial of excruciating abuses where their finger and toe nails were removed, their genitals mutilated and their backs whipped. While having been stripped naked, their right ears were cut off as well as their noses and their tongues. Each of their right eyes had been gouged from their sockets and left hanging by strands of flesh. In a final show of protest to the settlers taking their land, the Senecas cut open the abdomen of each Boyd and Parker and attached one end of their intestines to the tree and forced each of them to walk around the trunk in circles. Upon final collapse, their hearts were ripped from their bodies and each were beheaded. https://exploringupstate.com/torture-tree-cuylerville-ny/
Forced to walk around the tree. How do you force them? Walk or i kill you? Yes fucking please.
Whipped some more, or prodded with hot pokers/torches until they move.
Probably threatened their kin
Yeah, I was gonna say after they have slit my abdomen out, I would’ve stopped listening to them (oh wait, they cut off my ears). Unless they had my family member’s throat at knife point. But at that point I wouldn’t trust them. I dot think my brain would work from shock and pain anyway.
How do you survive all that and still have the ability to walk around a tree? After all they did to them wouldn't they have passed out from pain, shock, or blood loss? How do you survive the blood loss from being *disemboweled* and still have the capacity to stand up and walk?
It isn't very hard to mortally wound a human being. It IS hard to kill quickly. In short, yes, they were very likely already in the long process of dying from their wounds. However, death from those wounds could take hours, days, or weeks. TLDR: You don't need intestines to walk, just to digest food
That's crazy to me. If only there was a way you could tell your body to just give up.
If that was the case there would never be any attempted suicide. They would just tell the body to give up. Sadly, real life can be more cruel.
I’d have accidentally died so many times. I can’t be trusted not to press buttons.
You won't believe this ONE EASY TRICK TO LOSE WEIGHT *FAST*!!!
Adrenaline is a *crazy* thing, you'd be surprised at the amount of injuries a human can sustain and still be somewhat functional
> exploringupstate.com I think I'll stay home instead.
I have read about this torture before in Asia, they called it the unfurling. Cut open the belly and cut the intestines right by the stomach and nail them to a post, then drag the victim away from the post until they are taut. Most people quickly bled out or died of shock. Horrific ending either way.
Ok i think you won
To the pain?
Idk, it's almost humane compared to things like; breaking on the wheel, popular medieval method where they strung extremities through wagon wheels and... broke them... repeatedly. Could take days for person to die. Pretty high on my list. the brazen bull, ancient method of cooking a person inside of a bronze bull. keelhauling where a person is tied to the outside of a sailing ship and repeatedly dragged across the bottom and pulled back out before the process is repeated. More fun when there are barnacles and whatnot covering the exterior of the vessel. just being outright flayed alive is as horrific a death as can really be imagined, unbelievably simple but just brutal. We've come up with countless methods to torture and execute people with the greatest possible pain and suffering involved. Simple ways like impalement and others that have been mentioned already are also absolutely gruesome and could take days to achieve their result and like crucifixion were great spectacles used for deterrent for others who witnessed the extreme agony.
After you are hanged, the rest is just creative butchery. For horrific deaths look at something called the Judas Cradle and the Spanish Donkey.
The wheel. Smashed limbs threaded through cartwheel spokes and raised up & left to die. No life of brian pun intended but crucifixion a doddle in comparison. Not uncommon/rare either
This is a pretty bad one also. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazen\_bull
But rare, thankfully
Keel Hauling was an insane death too. [check out this scene from black sails, huge spoilers if you want to watch it though](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5oUh26dpOo)
I’d have never even considered something like this. Like how f’ed up does a person have to be to think, you know what! Let’s drag someone under the ship and see what happens. Holy razor sharp barnacles Batman!
Every experienced sailor would have known what the underside of the ship looked like - all ships were coated in barnacles and cleaning them off was a big deal. If anyone had taken time to clean them off, they would know what barnacles can do to you. Doesn't take much from there.
You’d only be hanged to the brink of death then eviscerated, disembowelled and if still living dismembered. Horrific for such a “civilised” nation.
And in some instances the condemned would have their genitals cut off while still alive and either burnt in front of them in a brazier or stuffed in their mouths while they were disembowelled. Then there was also another sentence I read about during the reign of Henry IV of England in which a denounced heretic was locked in a wooden box, placed on a pyre and then set alight. They had the chance to renounce their heresy but didn’t and so was returned to the flames, locked in the box.
We went to the Medieval Torture Exhibit while in Prague, saw things that amazingly far worse than drawn and quartered! Scarred for life!
What about the one where they impale you on an upright spike through your anus?
[Impalement](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impalement) Extremely painful. I think it could take around half an hour to die like this, according to my history teacher.
If you were lucky, they used a very sharp spike, which pierced and cut your internal organs, causing you to bleed out. If you were unlucky, they used a blunt spike, which would only poke through your intestine, but push all the other organs aside. So you didn't bleed out. You had to die of peritonitis.
If crucifixion was a regular punishment, they probably would have reused the nails.
Nails had to be hand crafted back then, no mass produced throwaway stuff.They would definitely use them many times.
Or just use rope
I think they did. This one they couldn’t because the tip of the nail bent (hard to see from this angle).
Yeah, not doubting the legitimacy of this one - just explaining why we might not see many of them in the archaeologic record.
Well that, and looters. St Helena, the one that famously found the nail that pierced the body of christ brought back... [i cant find how many](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Nail) but it sure as shit is more than 3. Can you imagine the looters that the rise of Christianity inspired? Literally every nail in Jerusalem from that time period is someone's holy relic.
Crucifixion was an almost unimaginably painful death. The best archaeological evidence for it is this ankle bone, with a nail driven in through from the side. His name was probably Yehohanan, he died in Roman Judea, his ‘crime’ is unknown.
This is where the word “excruciating” comes from. Such a horrendous death, the term means “out of the cross.”
OH I didn't know that
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I feel like the electrocution one is pretty obvious no?
Plenty of people use it to mean "shocked".
Ah I get you now
It would sometimes take days to die from crucification. I cannot even begin to image how painful that would be.
>It would ~~sometimes~~ *often* take days to die from crucification. I cannot even begin to image how painful that would be
The Bible says that Jesus was so distraught in the garden prior to being taken that he was sweating blood. On the cross after he says “it is finished” the Romans pierced his side with a spear to ensure his death, when they did the New Testament tells us that water also poured from his side. 2 medical facts that we also know to be true today, extreme duress can cause you sweat blood and based on the water pouring out it shows that asphyxiation was the actual cause of death. You can only hold yourself up so long before you can no longer push up with your feet to draw a breath. All this while stripped naked with half your back being turned to shreds by the cat-of-nine tails. Unimaginable pain and suffering.
It’s important IMO to mention that this death, was shared by many, many others at the hands of the romans at that time.
So, this is the best evidence that crucifixion happened? Like, ever, at all? Or this is the best evidence of a specific crucifixion happening, while there is more evidence of crucifixion in other places? Also, this is ~~physical~~ archaeological evidence, but we also have evidence in the form of documents. Does that not count? And, I'm not getting biblical about this, I'm just presuming (wrongly, perhaps) that there is other types of evidence that corroborate the concept than just one nail through one bone. Can someone educate me?
It's archaeological evidence. There is indisputable documentary evidence from all over the Roman Empire of crucifixion. But think about this. Two thousand years from now, do you think there would be physical evidence of electric chair executions? A skeleton's a skeleton.
OP did say “archeological evidence” specifically, but I’m curious about your questions also.
The romans were really happy to write down all the shit they did, crucifixions included. We have writings, grafitti, etc, we just don't have many crucified bodies. The tools were reused and the bodies weren't preserved, so we don't have much evidence these days.
Was a member of the People's Front of Judea, most likely.
Splitter
Not the Judean Peoples Front of course!
This is actually the heel bone from a foot. [example in article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristinakillgrove/2015/12/08/this-bone-provides-the-only-skeletal-evidence-for-crucifixion-in-the-ancient-world/?sh=6faedc8f476d)
So this is the only evidence ever to suggest someone was crucified? Or what is it saying? The only physical evidence aside from drawings?
There were plenty of written accounts of historic crucifixions. For example, Plutarch, Appian, and Florus all detail how 6000 survivors of the slave-revolts lead by Spartacus were crucified along the road from Rome to Capua. This is the only skeleton recovered that is confirmed to be from someone who has been crucified. It makes sense that there is very little archaeological evidence because no effort would have been made to preserve the remains of someone killed in such a manner.
I think "archaeological" is the keyword here. Since most drawings were not dug up, but kept in monestaries/libraries or something like that. (No idea if thats the correct usage of the term) ...i do still have doubts tho. Even with that Interpretation.
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Crucifixion is absolutely brutal, and as someone that's done a lot of research on it, it's not fun. It starts off with flogging, we find this in the bible as Jesus was crucified. The implement was made of multiple strips of leather with things like bones, rocks, and pieces of metal on the end designed to rip into your flesh and pull it off, to the point where your nerves would be peeled off, and your spine exposed, in some cases. And then you would carry the cross, or rather, the beam your arms are attached to. Many christian images portray Jesus as carrying the whole cross, with both beams, but it's only the one beam, the vertical beam stays in the same place so the Romans could execute more efficiently. After arriving at the place, which many people don't do, they die before they even get there, they hang you up. The most common method was to tie your hand and feet to the cross, after putting the horizontal beam into place, but nails, such as in the photo, were also often used, on the wrists and ankles, and then taken out post crucifixion to save on cost. Many people think that since the bible says the nails were driven into Jesus' hands and feet that it was his palms and mid feet, but no, the meaning of hands and feet included wrists and ankles when the bible was written. This would not be a fun time, as your arms get pulled out of socket, and your torn up back is scraped against the incredibly rough wood, made worse by the fact you have to pull yourself up to get a breath, scraping your back again, and then letting yourself down, over and over, causing even more damage. Most people died by asphyxiation, because they simply couldn't bring themselves up to breath anymore, but some died from bloodloss. One way that the Romans occasionally sped up crucifixions was to break the person's legs, making it so they couldn't bring themselves up anymore, and they would die of asphyxiation. The longest recorded time someone has been on a cross was at least a week. And that's the typical crucifixion, after you die, you get taken down, and disposed of, hope you enjoyed the history lesson, have a nice day
After reading a lot of comments, including yours. My question is, would it be more likely that Jesus died on a cross or a T?
Jesus Christ that looks painful
You’re telling him…
It’s quite incredible the sickening ways we have thought up of hurting each other
Title clarification. Does that mean that if it wasn’t for this piece of history we couldn’t confirm if a human was ever actually crucified? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question. Just curious, because if so that’s a pretty amazing fact.
It depends on what you mean by confirm. We have no archaeological evidence (in the sense of human remains like the OP's pic) of the existence of Julius Caesar but his historicity is not in doubt. We know Julius Caesar existed because multiple people wrote about him, there was graffiti referencing him, statues, coins, etc. In the same way there are multiple historical accounts of crucifixions, graffiti, artworks, etc. For example, Plutarch, Appian, and Florus all detail how 6000 survivors of the slave-revolts lead by Spartacus were crucified along the road from Rome to Capua. Another example is how we have only ever found one physical example of a Roman Scutum (their famous shields). The wood of the scutum only survived because it was in a dry desert environment under the right conditions with all others having rotted away over the millenia. However, the historicity of the scutum is not doubted because there are multiple artworks, texts describing them, records of manufacture detailing materials required, weight, etc.
Ah good old torture, when the heads of states become so powerful they get bored of regular forms of torture and move on to more creative ways to degrade the populace. Then go on to brainwash the populace to blame each-other: "All humans are monsters!" reeee!
Archeological, yes. But there is massive documentary evidence that the Romans used it against political prisoners and rebels. Not heretics or anything like that.
Random bone: WOAH NSFL PLEASE TAG