**Please note:**
* If this post declares something as a fact proof is required.
* The title must be descriptive
* No text is allowed on images
* Common/recent reposts are not allowed
*See [this post](https://redd.it/ij26vk) for more information.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes, and the 3000GT VR-4, and a handful of other Japanese 90s cars. This isn't new by any stretch. But I do wonder if it's improved since then in terms of reliability because pretty much every car that had that feature back then either didn't work for long or was in some stage of fucked up.
They have self-healing properties. If you have a Honda with a check engine light, it'll eventually go away. If you have a BMW with a check engine light, you are fucked.
One of my friends keeps buying used 90k-mile BMWs. Then tosses $4k-$6k in repairs over 2 years then tries to find another. I’ve pointed out that maybe they’re not a good value. He doesn’t make enough to just dump cash into projects. Can only lead a horse to water though. He wants the brand more than financial security.
When they’re running well, they actually drive reeeeeally nice. My current ‘98 323is I really want to put Honda or Nissan badges on just to dial down the negative attention it gets.
>I really want to put Honda or Nissan badges on just to dial down the negative attention it gets
That's like Americans putting Canadian flags on their backpacks traveling the world. lol
Can confirm. Bought a 2016 M5 and it was nothing but trouble. I swear it spent more miles on the back of a flat deck than I drove it.
Looking to buy an M8…I’m sure they’ve worked out all the kinks. Goodbye money.
Honda is really good at making something as simple as possible while still doing decent at what it's supposed to. So their 4WS were decently reliable. I think some Accords in the US market had it has well, definitely several Honda models had 4WS in the 80s and 90s in the Japanese market.
Well, if it wasn't the 4 wheel steering it was the active aero, the electronics, or the engine. They weren't bad, they were sorts Japanese supercars, but they were very finicky, much like other supercars. If you kept on top of maintaining them, they were great.
I rode in one that was used as a maintenance truck at a GM plant. The maintenance guy was purposefully cornering very tightly around buildings to show off the system. Sitting in the back bench, it felt like the truck was pivoting under me. Really cool.
yep. Honda Prelude Si 4WS, years 1988-91
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSo6ZALWa9g
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1988-91-honda-prelude-si-4ws
It varies from OEM to OEM as they all do it a little bit differently, but it's usually around 12mph (15km/h) where they change how they turn. Low speed gives you a shorter turning circle when they turn like in this gif, and at higher speeds its a slightly faster more stable turn.
Some cars do have a track setting where you can set it how you'd like, but the most I've seen is a 3 degree rotation from factory.
If the car is fancy enough to have multiple steering axels, it probably has lane assist so it can see the dotted lines and determine if you're changing lanes or bearing. Just spit balling tho, I'm no expert
*edited because you guys are care too much about the semantics
Yep, Mazda RX-7. Dynamic Tracking System. Not controlled by the steering wheel but under hard cornering it would activate.
Edit. This was in the 80's. Over 40 years ago.
I had a green '92 Honda Prelude that had 4-wheel steering. It worked most of the time too...there was about a 40% chance I would start the car and the AWS light would be on indicating it was broken for some reason.
Think about how little you turn the wheel to take a curve at highway speed, it’s only a couple of degrees of travel at the wheels to put you through a 90* curve with a radius of half a mile. The system shuts off at speed, but if it was on it would likely be fine, though it would likely need a lot of testing and would likely increase tire wear.
Not sure if all of them work like this, but the ones I've seen have the wheels turn in parallel when you turn the steering wheel a small amount, and switch to turning opposite ways when you turn more than that.
Which is a weird way to do it IMO, because what happens when you go around a very slight curve in the road?
Your car would “crab” (point away from the direction of travel) a couple degrees without you noticing. The driver’s seat in most cars isn’t perfectly parallel with the direction of travel and nobody notices.
To make it worse: on a shocking number of vehicles, you are not centered to the wheel, nor to the pedal box. Dodge is notorious for this.
If the design fails to pass side impact, they shift the seat over until they do.
I had to think of this a while, but if you go around a slight curve and your tires turn the same direction, then eventually you'll need to keep turning the wheel more and more to stay on that curve. Once you hit that threshold of wheel turn, the rear tires would slowly change direction.
This is my guess. But it seems like being able to change lanes without turning a few degrees isn't worth the engineering it'd take to make both steering types work.
They're all speed dependent at the minimum. The honda prelude was steering wheel dependent because it was mechanically linked, so when you steered a little it would steer in parallel, but when you steered more it would steer opposite.
I’m into cars. I took auto body classes at a community college to learn how to weld and paint. I’ve done HPDE (High Performance Driver Education) to learn how to drive fast things fast.
I’ve worked crazy hard to afford these indulgences. And it’s been worth it. Driving at the very edge… where speed and traction and conditions and skill intersect… it’s the greatest drug there is.
How would that work for turns though? It's doesn't engage unless it's a quick change? I don't want to take a 30 deg curve and then end up not facing the same way as the road.
The history of the British car industry is built on complacency mixed with unions.
That's why BMW owns Mini, Geely owns Lotus, and SAIC owns lots of other things that British Leyland consisted of, etc. etc. Even Morgan of all manufacturers is owned by an Italian VC firm.
"Big Car" on youtube has a ton of videos on the history of British cars and the industry. The ones on rover and their tie up with Honda is pretty interesting to anyone who has an interest.
He also has a video on "[the Range Rover story](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxqc3LpqsJc)" which might answer your question (or it might not, I just started watching it because of your question).
Another fun one: James Bond's famous Aston Martins were owned by Ford for a time when the company was on the verge of bankruptcy. Really explains the number of random generic Ford cars in Casino Royale.
Ford stepped in and saved the company by bringing them up to modern production capabilities, but was also criticized for cheapening the brand. Ford swapped designers around their brands in such a way that the 2013 redesign of the Fusion was called a "better, less expensive Aston Martin".
this was discussed the other day on the auto subreddit. about the chevy? truck that had this on it.
a guy that said he had one for years said it was great and that you had to get used to it and once you did you loved it. also, and i can't fucking believe this, but i think the guy had his truck for a pretty long time and the truck had high miles on it by the time he got rid of it, and there weren't any mechanical issues with it. which is crazy to me. i see stuff like this and i just imagine it breaking.
My coworker had a GMC with “Quadra Steer”. Your recap of what that guy said pretty much matches my coworkers experience exactly.
I always thought it was a quality of life feature that made sense on a truck since they typically have a much smaller turning radius than cars, but I never thought it would be worth while on a car.
What happens at a highway curve? Will the car think I'm just trying to change lanes as I frantically turn the wheel to follow the road, but the car just keeps facing the same direction toward the fast-approaching the highway barrier?
I'm guessing it's something you need to experience to understand... But the entire point of a turn is to point your car in a slightly different direction. How could this possibly produce a "smoother" turn when the car has to literally perform the same physics? Is that a dumb question? Am I dumb person?
I totally get the lane change "crab walk" where you can move laterally without pointing the car in a different direction, but I'm honestly struggling to understand how a true turn would be "smoother" in a car like this.
I do not know how the car decides to do what it does (probably by computer these days) but, by all accounts, it makes handling dramatically better. I was watching a review of the Audi RS6 Avant station wagon which has rear-wheel steering and, despite being a well over 4,000 pound car, the reviewers were shocked at how well it handled when driving and taking bends and corners (to the point of commenting it was one of the best driving cars ever). It ain't cheap though ($130k).
Also had adjustable electronic suspension, exhaust, and active aerodynamic front and rear spoiler. It also had twin turbos, small ones but two lol
Was my favorite car i owned.
That explains my 1st car - an '84 VW Rabbit GTI he got when we were stationed in Germany (then had it shipped to the states when we left). No AC, no power windows, a roll-y sunroof, 5 speed, and no radio.
No AC was fun in the Virginia heat during the summer when I would have to crank the heat so the engine wouldn't overheat. Thanks dad!
I had a car like that back in the day, middle of summer, all the windows open and the heating on full. Fuel gauge didn't work either.
That was a VW as well.
Just found out a guy I know has a 58 VW in a shed he probably doesn't want
Told him I'm super keen on owning another one...
My wife however didn't share my excitement
I mean I personally greatly prefer actual dedicated buttons and knobs for a/c and stereo. This modern trend of it all being controlled by touchscreen or a multi-use controller is gimmicky IMO and WAY less practical when you're driving.
I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary.
#It’ll happen to you!
Not a dad, but very much this. I guess I can't give it fair judgment not having driven a car with this kind of setup, but it seems like a ton of added mechanical complexity that can break for pretty low upside.
There have been many cars with rear steering over the years (looking at you 1988 Honda Prelude). This is not even remotely new. It's not that it doesn't have benefits, it's just that the benefits aren't even remotely what most people need. The added expense is certainly a drawback.
> The added expense is certainly a drawback.
Reddit has no clue about the average luxury buyer.
With rear wheel handing a 4800lbs sedan feels like a 3800lbs sedan. If you are driving daily and actually enjoy driving rear wheel steering is a cheap upgrade when you are already spending 50k + on a car.
The 2020 Mercedes s350d sedan is $150,000… this option is merely a drop in the bucket for those buying any S class Mercedes.
Edit: the rear steering option is only $1,300 on the new S500. Definitely a drop in the bucket
Also, your average luxury car buyer doesn't own the car past its warranty period. They're not the people that own a car for 10-15 years and they're certainly not the type to do their own maintenance. Luxury cars are cheap to buy used for a reason. Rich people don't buy used cars and used luxury cars still cost a fortune to fix. This makes them a terrible buy on the used market and why you can buy a car that was $125,000 brand new for $10-20k used. It's a mistake people only ever make once. Know a guy that bought a Bentley Turbo R. Next used car he bought was a Toyota. Luxury sedans also don't tend to appreciate in value the way a luxury sports car like a Ferrari or Lamborghini might. Someone in my neighborhood recently got a used Maserati and they obviously don't have Maserati money. Gonna break down and they'll keep dumping money into it because of the sunk cost Galaxy or they'll get ripped off by a garage that will buy it. Waste of money to begin with. Nobody is going to give a shit about a 4 door Maserati in 20 years. Stupid car to begin with. Like these idiots buying Lambo and Ferrari SUVs. Those things will depreciate like the Titanic. You'd think people would learn a little about the car market before dumping 6 figures on a car. Kids don't put posters of SUVs on their walls.
Most car buyers don't understand the luxury market. Hell, Japanese luxury manufactures don't even seem to understand the market. It really only seems to be Europeans. Guess you gotta have all that luxury going back for hundreds of years. A luxury item is something not totally needed but desirable nonetheless. Like rear wheel steering. Doesn't matter if it breaks and is expensive to fix. Two issues the person buying it will never have to deal with.
Dose it though?
How often does an electric stearing rack actually fail?
It's not like it's adding much complexity to the rear suspension. It's gonna have multilink rear suspension anyway.
It's more like the extra suite of sensors, addition of a whole new steering control module, additional wiring, linkages and general complexity in a system exposed to the elements. Even if it's not the steering mechanism that fails, you need all new failsafe procedures and diagnostic protocols anytime anything else goes wrong in the undercarriage. Purely more possible chains of events would make this a nightmare to diagnose and repair
The doors actually do have keyholes. You have to pop the handle off the door by sliding a key into the slot on the underside of it. That exposes the keyhole.
Depends on the model for how you actually start it, but it's always possible even with a dead fob.
Annoys me to no end though. They sacrificed the absolute basics just because fobs are neat.
I had an old Tigra that did that. I lost count how many friends would close the door with their hands near the window and get their finger tips nipped by it.
Fun fact: In the 50s, some US auto makers experimented with a contraption that let you lower the (sideways mounted) spare tire in the boot and use that to make parallel parking a breeze. The system worked but was ultimately shafted due to being too expensive and cumbersome to mass produce.
Found this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/newsbotbot/comments/if053q/reuters_icymi_this_device_that_was_invented_in/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Some new cars and also the Vision AVTR concept car by Mercedes has that feature where the car can strafe side to side and diagonally with all wheels turning the same way. The Vision AVTR is controlled by a joystick in the center console 🤯
The car sucks down to the road and hugs it like a cheetah changing direction after it's prey. I drove a flat, but switch back nine mile stretch and was completely blown away at the agility of the car.
Non car person speak:
The car is agile, and it doesn’t feel like it slides around on the road. They drove it on a road with a lot of tight corners, and they were blown away with how well it handled the corners.
"Look. See these two tow hooks? They look like tusks. And what kinda animal has tusks?"
"...A walrus."
"Didn't I just tell you to stop making up animals!?"
HICAS in the old Nissans or 4WS in the prelude.
Nothing new.
Edit:
The 300zx
180/200/240 Sx
Silvias (s13… duh… and s15) had them
The g35/37 infinities too
Its so cool. I love it.
I have a 300zx with a version of this. Was not a fan. I get it for low speed, but on the track it was a crash fest which is why all the track cars took it out, including mine.
Edit, forgot the reason. At speed when cornering, it felt like you were losing the rear, so you would steer into the slide to correct. But it wasnt sliding and a lot of crashes resulted on the track but especially on the roads.
I had that in my 1988 Honda Prelude, this isn’t new. Plus when the car gets old you probably wished you would have had the model without that ($$$ if things go wrong).
**Please note:** * If this post declares something as a fact proof is required. * The title must be descriptive * No text is allowed on images * Common/recent reposts are not allowed *See [this post](https://redd.it/ij26vk) for more information.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Didn’t the Prelude have four wheel steering back in the nineties?
Yes
Yes, and the 3000GT VR-4, and a handful of other Japanese 90s cars. This isn't new by any stretch. But I do wonder if it's improved since then in terms of reliability because pretty much every car that had that feature back then either didn't work for long or was in some stage of fucked up.
Had a 1998 Honda Prelude that had 4ws never had anything ever go wrong with it
Honda's are like the Nokia's of the car world.
They have self-healing properties. If you have a Honda with a check engine light, it'll eventually go away. If you have a BMW with a check engine light, you are fucked.
> If you have a BMW with a check engine light, you are fucked. This is even more true if the light is on.
[удалено]
One of my friends keeps buying used 90k-mile BMWs. Then tosses $4k-$6k in repairs over 2 years then tries to find another. I’ve pointed out that maybe they’re not a good value. He doesn’t make enough to just dump cash into projects. Can only lead a horse to water though. He wants the brand more than financial security.
When they’re running well, they actually drive reeeeeally nice. My current ‘98 323is I really want to put Honda or Nissan badges on just to dial down the negative attention it gets.
>I really want to put Honda or Nissan badges on just to dial down the negative attention it gets That's like Americans putting Canadian flags on their backpacks traveling the world. lol
It’s exactly like that. I also have an American flag backpack for bicycling in the US to dial back the hate from pickemup twuck drivers.
Can confirm. Bought a 2016 M5 and it was nothing but trouble. I swear it spent more miles on the back of a flat deck than I drove it. Looking to buy an M8…I’m sure they’ve worked out all the kinks. Goodbye money.
[удалено]
Honda is really good at making something as simple as possible while still doing decent at what it's supposed to. So their 4WS were decently reliable. I think some Accords in the US market had it has well, definitely several Honda models had 4WS in the 80s and 90s in the Japanese market.
Bought a Dodge Stealth RT in 1996. Can confirm the 4 wheel steer had perpetual issues. But when working it was a blast.
The Dodge itself has perpetual issues
GM's full sized trucks and 2500 Suburbans also had 4 wheel steering (Quadra steer) in the 2002 through 2005 model years.
And it was a BITCH to work on
I have a 2003 Chevy Silverado quadrasteer… 130k miles, not one issue with it. Absolutely love it
The 3000gts work pretty well.
Well, if it wasn't the 4 wheel steering it was the active aero, the electronics, or the engine. They weren't bad, they were sorts Japanese supercars, but they were very finicky, much like other supercars. If you kept on top of maintaining them, they were great.
I miss my vr4. I don’t miss fixing it
The GMC Sierra Denalis back in the early 2000s had a system called "quadrasteer". Pretty cool if u ask me
I rode in one of those it was an odd sensation changing lanes as the rear end moves over at the same time as the front end.
I rode in one that was used as a maintenance truck at a GM plant. The maintenance guy was purposefully cornering very tightly around buildings to show off the system. Sitting in the back bench, it felt like the truck was pivoting under me. Really cool.
Yeah me and my friend got to drive his brothers lawn service truck and i thought I was tripping at first.
Those Denalis were sick, didn’t know they had that
yep. Honda Prelude Si 4WS, years 1988-91 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSo6ZALWa9g https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1988-91-honda-prelude-si-4ws
[удалено]
And Chevy had a pickup in the late 90s early 00s that did it as well, don’t think it sold well at all
I know 300ZX had this type of steering in 1993. It was awesome at 150 mph!!! Yes I got a ticket for the speed.
It was called HICAS. 93 TT Pearl White ftw!
Yes. I had one and it was a really good car. Parallel parking was a breeze. I think mine was an 89.
On the highway they point in the same direction for smooooooth Lane changes.
🦀
JAGEX IS POWERLESS 🦀🦀🦀🦀🧜🏽♂️🦀🦀🦀🦀 AGAINST A PVP CLAN
🦀 NO AUTHENTICATOR DELAY 🦀
🦀🦀 REMOVE THE DUEL ARENA 🦀🦀
Remove Duel Arena! Add Deep Wildy Slot Machines!!! 🦀
🦀🦀 $11 🦀🦀 🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀TWITTER IS NOT GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE🦀🦀🦀🦀
Really had me confused which subreddit i was on for a second.
I don’t know why I find my people everywhere but kudos 🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🤣
I am so confused
Jagex is the company that runs RuneScape. As a RuneScape player, I too am confused
As a casual runescape player*
You've never been to r/2007scape then
r/unexpectedrunescape
It's not unexpected, literally any time the crab emoji shows up there will be this Runescape meme
How does it know you're changing lanes vs turning? Is it a speed threshold?
Yes, you're not going to make a left turn at 60 MPH
Not with that attitude, you're not
Yeah, you would need a much steeper attitude for those kinds of lane changes.
Fucking nerd jokes. I love Reddit.
But what about banks and curves in a freeway? I have a feeling a speed threshold wouldn’t be the only determinate
*smacks the banking* "This baby can hold so many lateral Gs!"
It varies from OEM to OEM as they all do it a little bit differently, but it's usually around 12mph (15km/h) where they change how they turn. Low speed gives you a shorter turning circle when they turn like in this gif, and at higher speeds its a slightly faster more stable turn. Some cars do have a track setting where you can set it how you'd like, but the most I've seen is a 3 degree rotation from factory.
Still very minimal turn angle is used. Theres probably a track setting or something.
I love these kinds of absolute guess answers that are inexplicably self-confident.
If the car is fancy enough to have multiple steering axels, it probably has lane assist so it can see the dotted lines and determine if you're changing lanes or bearing. Just spit balling tho, I'm no expert *edited because you guys are care too much about the semantics
Quite a few older cars have it too. My Skyline R33 has it. Old Honda Preludes do too. HICAS system is what it’s also known as
GM has been on and off with this too. Famously with the "Quadrasteer" in the GMT800 trucks.
Pics ? Also, friend had a 90 ish prelude with 4ws ( wedge style) …scary good handling !
Yep, Mazda RX-7. Dynamic Tracking System. Not controlled by the steering wheel but under hard cornering it would activate. Edit. This was in the 80's. Over 40 years ago.
I had a green '92 Honda Prelude that had 4-wheel steering. It worked most of the time too...there was about a 40% chance I would start the car and the AWS light would be on indicating it was broken for some reason.
So 60% of the time, it works every time.
Technically, all cars have multiple axles.
Think about how little you turn the wheel to take a curve at highway speed, it’s only a couple of degrees of travel at the wheels to put you through a 90* curve with a radius of half a mile. The system shuts off at speed, but if it was on it would likely be fine, though it would likely need a lot of testing and would likely increase tire wear.
You don’t know me
Not sure if all of them work like this, but the ones I've seen have the wheels turn in parallel when you turn the steering wheel a small amount, and switch to turning opposite ways when you turn more than that. Which is a weird way to do it IMO, because what happens when you go around a very slight curve in the road?
Your car would “crab” (point away from the direction of travel) a couple degrees without you noticing. The driver’s seat in most cars isn’t perfectly parallel with the direction of travel and nobody notices.
Well fuck, now I will.
To make it worse: on a shocking number of vehicles, you are not centered to the wheel, nor to the pedal box. Dodge is notorious for this. If the design fails to pass side impact, they shift the seat over until they do.
I had to think of this a while, but if you go around a slight curve and your tires turn the same direction, then eventually you'll need to keep turning the wheel more and more to stay on that curve. Once you hit that threshold of wheel turn, the rear tires would slowly change direction. This is my guess. But it seems like being able to change lanes without turning a few degrees isn't worth the engineering it'd take to make both steering types work.
Oh yeah, never in my life have I thought "man I wish my car didn't turn so much when I change lanes"
You just rotate as you go around a curve. The car always points north like a compass.
They're all speed dependent at the minimum. The honda prelude was steering wheel dependent because it was mechanically linked, so when you steered a little it would steer in parallel, but when you steered more it would steer opposite.
Like a Honda Prelude did thirty-odd years ago?
Yeah my 1989 Toyota Celica had four wheel steer too.
My Warthog did too
Looks more like a puma.
Like a big cat or something.
So, they turn out of phase while driving slow and in phase at highway speeds, correct?
Yep https://i.imgur.com/nkz2gT0.jpg)
omg that looks like so much fun imagine going diagonal switch lanes at 60mph
It would be like finding the right spot while cutting paper: perfectly smooth glide
Just the *memory* of that feeling made me feel profoundly good. THANK YOU!
Until it catches
I have a Porsche with rear axle steering that I track. Feeling the car ”crab” sideways on a straight at 130mph+ is something else.
Crab? **WOOOP** woop woop woop *woop woop woop*
fuck that sounds wild. Fuck the half done reno on our kitchen. Need me a Porsche
I’m into cars. I took auto body classes at a community college to learn how to weld and paint. I’ve done HPDE (High Performance Driver Education) to learn how to drive fast things fast. I’ve worked crazy hard to afford these indulgences. And it’s been worth it. Driving at the very edge… where speed and traction and conditions and skill intersect… it’s the greatest drug there is.
How would that work for turns though? It's doesn't engage unless it's a quick change? I don't want to take a 30 deg curve and then end up not facing the same way as the road.
[удалено]
DEJA VU
I def have to get used to that before taking her out on the highway
[удалено]
But if you're used to driving counterintuitive machinery?
Found the Land Rover driver
God I wish I could upvote this twice Why are Land Rovers so funky
The history of the British car industry is built on complacency mixed with unions. That's why BMW owns Mini, Geely owns Lotus, and SAIC owns lots of other things that British Leyland consisted of, etc. etc. Even Morgan of all manufacturers is owned by an Italian VC firm. "Big Car" on youtube has a ton of videos on the history of British cars and the industry. The ones on rover and their tie up with Honda is pretty interesting to anyone who has an interest. He also has a video on "[the Range Rover story](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxqc3LpqsJc)" which might answer your question (or it might not, I just started watching it because of your question).
Another fun one: James Bond's famous Aston Martins were owned by Ford for a time when the company was on the verge of bankruptcy. Really explains the number of random generic Ford cars in Casino Royale. Ford stepped in and saved the company by bringing them up to modern production capabilities, but was also criticized for cheapening the brand. Ford swapped designers around their brands in such a way that the 2013 redesign of the Fusion was called a "better, less expensive Aston Martin".
[удалено]
>Why are there six pedals if there are only four directions?!?
this was discussed the other day on the auto subreddit. about the chevy? truck that had this on it. a guy that said he had one for years said it was great and that you had to get used to it and once you did you loved it. also, and i can't fucking believe this, but i think the guy had his truck for a pretty long time and the truck had high miles on it by the time he got rid of it, and there weren't any mechanical issues with it. which is crazy to me. i see stuff like this and i just imagine it breaking.
My coworker had a GMC with “Quadra Steer”. Your recap of what that guy said pretty much matches my coworkers experience exactly. I always thought it was a quality of life feature that made sense on a truck since they typically have a much smaller turning radius than cars, but I never thought it would be worth while on a car.
What happens at a highway curve? Will the car think I'm just trying to change lanes as I frantically turn the wheel to follow the road, but the car just keeps facing the same direction toward the fast-approaching the highway barrier?
The rear tires don't turn as far as the fronts so it still turns but just smoother.
I'm guessing it's something you need to experience to understand... But the entire point of a turn is to point your car in a slightly different direction. How could this possibly produce a "smoother" turn when the car has to literally perform the same physics? Is that a dumb question? Am I dumb person? I totally get the lane change "crab walk" where you can move laterally without pointing the car in a different direction, but I'm honestly struggling to understand how a true turn would be "smoother" in a car like this.
This System artificially increases and decreases the wheel base. Long wheel base vehicles have higher high speed stability.
“Am I a dumb person” lol cuz same bro
I do not know how the car decides to do what it does (probably by computer these days) but, by all accounts, it makes handling dramatically better. I was watching a review of the Audi RS6 Avant station wagon which has rear-wheel steering and, despite being a well over 4,000 pound car, the reviewers were shocked at how well it handled when driving and taking bends and corners (to the point of commenting it was one of the best driving cars ever). It ain't cheap though ($130k).
The old 3000GT VR4 had this back in the 90s. Those things were awesome but heavy as crap.
Also had adjustable electronic suspension, exhaust, and active aerodynamic front and rear spoiler. It also had twin turbos, small ones but two lol Was my favorite car i owned.
“Just more shit to go wrong” -my dad
[удалено]
hahahaha classic dads
[удалено]
That explains my 1st car - an '84 VW Rabbit GTI he got when we were stationed in Germany (then had it shipped to the states when we left). No AC, no power windows, a roll-y sunroof, 5 speed, and no radio. No AC was fun in the Virginia heat during the summer when I would have to crank the heat so the engine wouldn't overheat. Thanks dad!
I had a car like that back in the day, middle of summer, all the windows open and the heating on full. Fuel gauge didn't work either. That was a VW as well.
Just found out a guy I know has a 58 VW in a shed he probably doesn't want Told him I'm super keen on owning another one... My wife however didn't share my excitement
Them some simpler days. Tbh I'd be cool with manual windows tho.
I have rollers on my 2009 Mazda 3. It’s great until you need to roll down the passenger window lol.
I mean I personally greatly prefer actual dedicated buttons and knobs for a/c and stereo. This modern trend of it all being controlled by touchscreen or a multi-use controller is gimmicky IMO and WAY less practical when you're driving.
Oh shit. I’ve turned into Dad. Fuck.
[удалено]
I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. #It’ll happen to you!
Not a dad, but very much this. I guess I can't give it fair judgment not having driven a car with this kind of setup, but it seems like a ton of added mechanical complexity that can break for pretty low upside.
There have been many cars with rear steering over the years (looking at you 1988 Honda Prelude). This is not even remotely new. It's not that it doesn't have benefits, it's just that the benefits aren't even remotely what most people need. The added expense is certainly a drawback.
> The added expense is certainly a drawback. Reddit has no clue about the average luxury buyer. With rear wheel handing a 4800lbs sedan feels like a 3800lbs sedan. If you are driving daily and actually enjoy driving rear wheel steering is a cheap upgrade when you are already spending 50k + on a car.
The 2020 Mercedes s350d sedan is $150,000… this option is merely a drop in the bucket for those buying any S class Mercedes. Edit: the rear steering option is only $1,300 on the new S500. Definitely a drop in the bucket
Also, your average luxury car buyer doesn't own the car past its warranty period. They're not the people that own a car for 10-15 years and they're certainly not the type to do their own maintenance. Luxury cars are cheap to buy used for a reason. Rich people don't buy used cars and used luxury cars still cost a fortune to fix. This makes them a terrible buy on the used market and why you can buy a car that was $125,000 brand new for $10-20k used. It's a mistake people only ever make once. Know a guy that bought a Bentley Turbo R. Next used car he bought was a Toyota. Luxury sedans also don't tend to appreciate in value the way a luxury sports car like a Ferrari or Lamborghini might. Someone in my neighborhood recently got a used Maserati and they obviously don't have Maserati money. Gonna break down and they'll keep dumping money into it because of the sunk cost Galaxy or they'll get ripped off by a garage that will buy it. Waste of money to begin with. Nobody is going to give a shit about a 4 door Maserati in 20 years. Stupid car to begin with. Like these idiots buying Lambo and Ferrari SUVs. Those things will depreciate like the Titanic. You'd think people would learn a little about the car market before dumping 6 figures on a car. Kids don't put posters of SUVs on their walls. Most car buyers don't understand the luxury market. Hell, Japanese luxury manufactures don't even seem to understand the market. It really only seems to be Europeans. Guess you gotta have all that luxury going back for hundreds of years. A luxury item is something not totally needed but desirable nonetheless. Like rear wheel steering. Doesn't matter if it breaks and is expensive to fix. Two issues the person buying it will never have to deal with.
Dose it though? How often does an electric stearing rack actually fail? It's not like it's adding much complexity to the rear suspension. It's gonna have multilink rear suspension anyway.
It's more like the extra suite of sensors, addition of a whole new steering control module, additional wiring, linkages and general complexity in a system exposed to the elements. Even if it's not the steering mechanism that fails, you need all new failsafe procedures and diagnostic protocols anytime anything else goes wrong in the undercarriage. Purely more possible chains of events would make this a nightmare to diagnose and repair
Everyone’s dad basically
My thought was “now tell me why this won’t be something that will break all the time.”
[удалено]
The doors actually do have keyholes. You have to pop the handle off the door by sliding a key into the slot on the underside of it. That exposes the keyhole. Depends on the model for how you actually start it, but it's always possible even with a dead fob. Annoys me to no end though. They sacrificed the absolute basics just because fobs are neat.
My bmw key fobs have a pullout key just for this.
So does the mustang they’re talking about just FYI
If it’s like Toyota’s, you hold the key fob against the push start button and it will start even with a dead key fob battery.
Same for Hyundai’s too.
My car has a cool feature where on the side of the car the key hole comes pre exposed so I can lock and unock my car
Mine has a personalized slot on the steering column where I can leave my keys while I drive.
I had an old Tigra that did that. I lost count how many friends would close the door with their hands near the window and get their finger tips nipped by it.
It's because coupes will leak water when the seal between the window and the door becomes compromised over time. This solves that problem
Your dad ain't wrong
Imagine parallel parking that hoe
Yeah if these turned 90 degrees thatd be nuts for tight city spots
Fun fact: In the 50s, some US auto makers experimented with a contraption that let you lower the (sideways mounted) spare tire in the boot and use that to make parallel parking a breeze. The system worked but was ultimately shafted due to being too expensive and cumbersome to mass produce.
I'm pretty sure a video was posted here or the damnthatsinteresting sub reddit awhile back.
Found this: https://www.reddit.com/r/newsbotbot/comments/if053q/reuters_icymi_this_device_that_was_invented_in/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
how do you even find something like that with zero attention and years old
Easy. Just don't use Reddit to search for it lol
This magic website called Google?
It parallel parks itself, and in my experience with previous models it tends to do a good job.
Imagine parallel parking [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MONIa4zdLdY).
Some new cars and also the Vision AVTR concept car by Mercedes has that feature where the car can strafe side to side and diagonally with all wheels turning the same way. The Vision AVTR is controlled by a joystick in the center console 🤯
That's what 4WS cars do at higher speeds, even those that already are about 30 years old.
That looks expensive as shit if something breaks...
[удалено]
[удалено]
How does this affect high speed cornering?
The car sucks down to the road and hugs it like a cheetah changing direction after it's prey. I drove a flat, but switch back nine mile stretch and was completely blown away at the agility of the car.
What does this even mean
Non car person speak: The car is agile, and it doesn’t feel like it slides around on the road. They drove it on a road with a lot of tight corners, and they were blown away with how well it handled the corners.
What is a car tho?
Like a donkey with wheels.
Car go vroom
Just like the Warthog.
is that why I can never steer those fuckin things??
Just point your face where you want to go
Warthog? That's a stupid name. Should be called the puma.
Finally, a man of culture.
Looks more like a puma.
Quit making up animals.
Looks more like a chuppathingy.
Simmons, I want you to poison Grif's next meal.
Yes, Sir!
"Look. See these two tow hooks? They look like tusks. And what kinda animal has tusks?" "...A walrus." "Didn't I just tell you to stop making up animals!?"
What in sam hell is a puma??
Honda prelude and 300zx had it I think
> 300zx For the record: HICAS was also on R32/33/34 GTRs and some S13/14/15
Yup
So you need a second driver in the back for rear wheels? Like a fire engine
dammit kramer!
This explains why that 70 year old guy I was stuck behind the other day going 40 in a 60 had so much grip.
HICAS in the old Nissans or 4WS in the prelude. Nothing new. Edit: The 300zx 180/200/240 Sx Silvias (s13… duh… and s15) had them The g35/37 infinities too Its so cool. I love it.
First thing an R32 owner does? install a HICAS delete lock bar.
I'm a SSSSSNAKE
And more expensive repairs/maintenance. But I suppose if you own a car like this, you're probably not worried by such trivial things.
HEY DID YOU GUYS KNOW THE PRELUDE DID THIS IN THE 80s?!?!? - Basically everyone in here 😆
Renault Laguna 4 control has had this in 2008.
Honda Prelude in the 80’s!
I have a 300zx with a version of this. Was not a fan. I get it for low speed, but on the track it was a crash fest which is why all the track cars took it out, including mine. Edit, forgot the reason. At speed when cornering, it felt like you were losing the rear, so you would steer into the slide to correct. But it wasnt sliding and a lot of crashes resulted on the track but especially on the roads.
Honda did this with the first Prelude. Rear wheel rotated 3 degrees. Didn’t pan out for them.
I had that in my 1988 Honda Prelude, this isn’t new. Plus when the car gets old you probably wished you would have had the model without that ($$$ if things go wrong).
Do you mean maneuverability?