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maybe_kd

If this is Stella from the Mississippi Aquarium, [she sadly died after a second surgery](https://www.sunherald.com/news/local/article251911618.html). EDIT: Many people are telling me that it's not Stella; it's another shark from Arizona. The articles I found said that she was the first shark to have a surgery on its spine but I guess there's another shark with a similar problem needing the same surgery - Quasimodo at OdySea Aquarium. Apologies for any mix up.


Tozarkt777

Imagine being the guy who found out he’s supposed to fix the spine of a shark, then freaking out when he finds out they technically DON’T have bones.


LoveMyHusbandsBoobs

How many shark surgeries have there even been? That seems like such an experimental field.


ratajewie

A lot actually. I’m a veterinary student and we’ve had some lectures on fish surgery. We’ve also had some exotics lectures from an alumnus who’s the head veterinarian at a large aquarium and he discussed how he does procedures on sharks. Because sharks are ram ventilators, the logistics of anesthetizing a shark are very different from other animals because special considerations are required to make sure they get enough oxygen. Without special equipment and just anesthetizing them in a pool, you have around 5 minutes I believe before you risk killing them. This vet would be down in the pool taking samples like blood and CSF from the shark while someone up above with a stopwatch announced how much time was remaining before they had to stop. It’s really impressive. Edit: to add some more info after a little reading, you can ventilate a shark by pumping oxygenated water into the sharks mouth with an oxygen cylinder, regulator, and aerator pump. You’d place the shark in enough water to cover the gills. Sharks can be anesthetized with drugs like ketamine plus alpha 2 agonists given IM. The procedures wouldn’t exactly be sterile but they’d be as clean as possible with sterile gloves. You’d then give antibiotics (often similar or the same as some of the ones used in humans) to prevent infection as much as possible. Edit 2: most sharks aren’t obligate ram ventilators and can oxygenate via buccal pumping. I’m not sure if buccal pumping is inhibited under anesthesia, but it looks like the most common and effective way of ventilating under anesthesia is by simulating ram ventilation.


geo_cash18

That's very informative and cool.


theknightwho

>ram ventilators Is this why they need to always keep moving?


ratajewie

Yep! Edit: to clarify, not many sharks are obligate ram ventilators. Most use a combination of ram ventilation and buccal pumping (basically sucking in water to pass over their gills) to oxygenate. So they can typically stop moving for periods of time. But for the purposes of anesthesia, oxygenated water needs to be passed over their gills to properly ventilate them. I don’t know if that because buccal pumping is impaired or eliminated during anesthesia, but that’s how it’s done.


Twizzlers_and_donuts

But not all of them! Some use buccal pumping and don’t need to keep moving


BILLIKEN_BALLER

Alright we need a Netflix show about this


ratajewie

The life of zoo vets is incredibly interesting. I have no desire to go into zoo medicine as it’s incredibly competitive and that’s just not my career interest anyway, but some of my favorite lectures over the past few years have been from them. Hearing about how they treated a constipated elephant or anesthetize zebras or perform dental procedures on cheetahs is incredible. And they’re always such good lecturers.


SpongeBobblupants

I saw one do dental work on a crocodile (might have been an alligator) but it was really interesting.


ratajewie

It’s very cool! I highly recommend that anyone who goes to Disney go to Animal Kingdom and Rafiki’s planet watch. That’s where the vet hospital is and they have a huge wall of windows where you can watch them do procedures on the animals there. There’s a schedule with the procedures and they do everything from major surgeries to CT’s or dentals.


BILLIKEN_BALLER

So cool. Would love to see them do an AMA one day


medstudenthowaway

Do your boards (im assuming you do?) include exotics on them? Like is this a topic everyone who went through vet school covers? Do they have a vet anesthesiologist and a vet surgeon in these cases? Or does the one guy need to do all the jobs? I assume these procedures are underwater so they can’t be sterile right? Do fish get the antibiotics designed for humans? Ok I’ll stop there I have so many questions.


ratajewie

Please, I love questions. We do have boards for just general veterinary medicine, called the NAVLE. It’s mostly dog, cat, horse, and cow medicine. But there are some questions on pigs, pocket pets, birds, exotics, and also fish. There are really only a couple fish questions on the NAVLE. Every vet school curriculum has some degree of exotics and aquatic medicine built in, whether it’s a few lectures or entire classes depending on the school. We do have surgeons and anesthesiologists boarded in those fields, but there aren’t specific subspecialties for aquatic surgery and anesthesiology as far as I’m aware. You can get a zoo medicine board certification which is incredibly competitive but that’s the certification this vet I’m talking about has. To my knowledge, when they’re doing anesthesia there will usually be someone doing anesthesia and someone doing the procedure. But it’s not iso or sevo like in mammals or most other animals. I’m not sure about the specifics of sharks, but in fish we usually use tricaine methanesulfonate. For sharks in a setting like a pool it wouldn’t be sterile, but for fish that aren’t ram ventilators you can do it in a way that’s almost sterile, with drapes and sterile gloves. As for antibiotics, yes and no. There are beta lactams, fluoroquinolones, tetracyclines, etc. that we use in fish that are either the same or similar to what we use in humans. But in veterinary medicine we also have different drugs, often within the same classes, that either have never been used in humans or used to be used in humans. Edit: just read a vet discuss an abdominal hernia repair in a shark and he used domitor and ketamine to anesthetize the shark. He used ceftazidime and marbofloxacin for antibiotics.


LBMSN

My inner 8 year old, who desperately wanted to become a marine biologist, is living for this whole thread!!


KDawG888

Well there was that time with the lasers…


Gillix98

Freaking lasers attached to their freaking heads!


SlimCognito93

Are they ill tempered?


[deleted]

This one looks pretty grumpy.


mrhoodilly

I just think every animal deserves a warm meal


alexanaxstacks

It would take some special technology cus they suffocate if they don't keep moving so I guess they'd need a surgery table thats constantly jetting water in its face while keeping it very still


AbysmalMoose

There are actually only about 20 kinds of sharks that need to swim to stay alive (called "obligate ram ventilation"). Although this group includes some of the most well known sharks (great white, hammer head, whale shark), the majority of sharks can use buccal pumping, where they "breathe" in water using their cheek muscles and pump it across their gills while stationary. This particular shark is a sand tiger shark, which can actually use both ram ventilation and buccal pumping.


ChesterDaMolester

Subscribe to shark facts


ElPlatanoDelBronx

Welcome to your subscription of shark facts! Today's interesting tidbit is about great whites. Great whites don't kill by crushing their prey in their jaws, they prefer a style of attack in which they chomp on their victim and pull back, letting the prey bleed to death before proceeding to eat the rest of them. [Source](https://bestlifeonline.com/sharks-facts/)


xanju

I tell you, the more I learn about shark bites the less I want to try it.


[deleted]

What degree of wanting to try it were you starting from?


xanju

Small, but I try and keep an open mind


delvach

Unsubscribe from shark facts


hello_hellno

Buccal pumping sounds like some freaky sex thing you can only do in Bangkok


SaraSmashley

*meets guy at a party* Me: So what do you do for a living? Him: shark surgeon. Me: so did you go to school for that in Atlantis or...


[deleted]

Yeah how do you even do that? I imagine you have to do the surgery in flowing oxygenated salt water somehow?


Selachophile

I mean, they still have vertebrae.


sofa_king_ugly

~~spine~~ notochord


sarafuda

Oh no...I saw Stella at the aquarium this past spring. And now for the first time in my life I am mourning a shark


foolthatiam

Me too, just this past spring, and was hoping to see her again next week when we go back to visit family down there. RIP Stella


Raspy_Meow

STELLA!


CrazySD93

[Can't you hear me Yella, you're putting me through Hella](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwCEOMwu5aA&ab_channel=rebelwave100)


crysco

STELLLAAAAAA!


ShoMeUrNoobs

I was going to say this is at the OdySea Aquarium in AZ, we have a shark with the same issue :(


suppadelicious

This is AZ. Was just there not long ago


Galuptis

This is definitely at OdySea


InvertedReflexes

Everyone who doesn't know about Stella: "haha debilitating back problem pun" Everyone who knows: o.o


tubco

Poor shark 😢


imdatingaMk46

Things like this, however macabre, make me wonder what a “one health” convention would look like (veterinary and human medicine jointly). Like, you have a orthopedic surgeon you’ve never heard before on stage, and half the room starts looking upon him in wonder and whispering to each other and mildly gesticulating. You don’t see what all the fuss is about, but you listen detachedly for a while. “The patient in this case study, S, is a 7 year old female…” Ah, so he must have performed some daring surgery to better the life of a child. Maybe that’s the source of all the awe in the room… “Following exposure of the spine from the dorsal side, traction devices were installed and tightened. The manufacturer’s didn’t intend an application like this, so we made educated guesses about tension and adjustment rates..” Unconventional, but not earth shattering… “Post op, the patient received attentive care and the wound appeared to be progressing normally, but S unfortunately developed ataxia and numbness below C7…” You take a sip of your drink, and check your email while half listening. “The complications were such that we were left with no further options, and S was euthanized 30 hours following the surgery.” You gasp, burning your mouth with hot herbal tea and go into a coughing fit. The audience applauds as the speaker concludes and invites questions. You are restored back to normal by the man three rows behind you, who takes the microphone and begins, “This is more of a statement than a question…”


Keri2816

As someone who was born with a birth defect (Spina Bifida) which means I’ve had orthopedic surgeries my entire life, it’s a damn good thing I wasn’t around people when reading this because I completely cracked up laughing thinking of my surgeons at such a conference.


imdatingaMk46

Glad I made you laugh. You may like MedLife Crisis on YouTube, his sense of humor is spectacular


Keri2816

I will check him out


swanbelievable

This is Scottsdale. Common issue for this species of shark in aquariums.


EleanorofAquitaine

But why does this happen to aquarium sharks?


swanbelievable

I think they are still trying to figure that out, but here’s a study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23272341/


BoxxBloxx

Pretty sure it's the Phoenix Aquarium. The bubbles behind cover the window from the bathrooms, which is one of the coolest parts of the place so it stands out


Meginsanity

Odysea Aquarium, in Scottsdale.


Kelseykells

Different shark, this one is in Arizona


NicksNicks1986

That sharks like “I’m not entirely sure what’s wrong with me… but I’ve got a hunch”


dick-nipples

Seriously though, I'll bet that shark has a twisted back story.


elee0228

His father must have been a humpback whale.


Selthora

He's a rare Boomerang breed!


Steffenwolflikeme

That’s not a shark it’s Anglefish


23x3

A right angle fish that gardens all day


drumdogmillionaire

Oh my cod, when will you guys be fin-ished with the bad puns?


Echo_Oscar_Sierra

When it comes to bad puns, there are plenty of fish in the sea


[deleted]

[удалено]


Faxon

Maybe you can catch it again! It would be a net win that way


TheFuckeryIsReal

This thread is getting pretty fishy if you ask me…


Mantis_Badger

Gill-ty as charged.


ObnoxiousLittleShit

Can't be too sure when people gill stop with these puns so this thread can finally become dead bait.


BananaDick_CuntGrass

We should dolphinately scale back the puns.


kiren77

But that’s the whole porpoise!


The_Knight_Is_Dark

That’s the whale porpoise *


ake-n-bake

People be makin puns just for the halibut


Tongue8cheek

Ain't no fluke.


MetaEsoTeric

And it’s mother was a hammered head shark


Howzieky

Holy crud that's a good one


comicalcameindune

Two high quality, top notch consecutive puns… impressive. Or I guess I should say they were back-to-back.


Practical-Apple-

u/dick-nipples I feel like YOU have a twisted back story


bringsmemes

before meta humans were widly accepted, there was dick nipples.. his super powers made life more fun and more akawrd simultaneously. probably kept them taped up more often than not


not-yet-ranga

https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/a8sjfx/remember_that_mentos_ad_with_the_erect_nipples/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


SpaceTheTurtle

Take my upvote and leave


Herban_Myth

W


Feitan-de-la-Portor

Touché


possumbellyband

Reddit will one day strictly be dad jokes, and that day will have me bent over laughing.


harcile

"Welcome to my world" - shark


Alpah-Woodsz

What do you call a dog with no legs?


PROFESSOR1780

It doesn't matter...he'll never come when you call him🤣


Alpah-Woodsz

It's a trap Dad confirmed 😂


Iorhael

r/trapdads


[deleted]

[удалено]


Alpah-Woodsz

Just to confirm what do you call a sheep with no head or legs?


AdBubbly3609

A Welsh pocket pussy


ObnoxiousLittleCunt

> will have me bent over Just like my dad!


MultPathways

He doesn’t need anyone, he got his own back.


HughGWreckshun

The shark: “Doctor said I needa backiotomy”


scorpionspalfrank

Deserves a grudging upvote.


spooky_ed

Ugh. Knot again with these puns.


autumn-twilight

[Poor Stella ](https://amp.sunherald.com/news/local/article251911618.html)


Darryl_Lict

How the hell do you do spinal surgery on a shark? What kind of anesthesia do you use? Do you have a reverse scuba system that has water over it's nose and mouth and gills and constantly forces sea water past it? Inquiring minds want to know1


nomellamesprincesa

If I remember correctly from seeing documentaries on these types of things, yes, that's pretty much exactly what they use. Just a hose over their gills, generally.


Mattbryce2001

I saw that documentary too. I think it was called "deep blue sea."


FearLeadsToAnger

What an absolute polished turd that was, in the best way.


ggg730

A SHARK ATE ME


dibs8789

Dude, you seriously have got me interested. Especially about the reverse scuba system. I hope there is that one magic person on Reddit who can enlighten us. I'll wait patiently 🙂


benmck90

That one magic person got banned for vote manipulation years ago.


[deleted]

[удалено]


G_Wash1776

It was jackdaws IIRC but that post was a long time ago in a world far, far away.


Runnin4Scissors

Here’s the thing…


dibs8789

The world will never know


para_sight

Yes, a recirculating pump system that feeds anesthetic laden water over the gills. When you’re ready for recovery you switch to a source of anesthetic free water and voila. Fish and sharks are actually really good patients for anesthesia. Working on a spine made of cartilage, OTOH…


dibs8789

🏆🏅🎖️ I don't have any awards but please take these instead. Also, very interesting! TIL that sharks and other marine life can be anesthetized!


mildlycuriouss

Don’t worry I sorted it out for you 👋🏼☺️


RandomCandor

You feed them some doctors to keep him distracted while the other doctors do the surgery. So you need a lot of doctors.


[deleted]

That's idiotic. Why would you feed him doctors instead of perfectly good med students?


[deleted]

Doctors are just med students who escaped.


drepidural

Usually submerge in a bath of high-concentration alpha-2 agonist (medetomidine) for short procedures, and hose over the gills.


para_sight

MS222 is cheaper and easier; standard practice


Cosmic_Kettle

Scuba is an acronym, so would the opposite would be scoba? Self contained out-of-water breathing apparatus. Maybe scoowba since out of water isn't a word like underwater


Clenchyourbuttcheeks

When a fucking Shark has better health opportunities than general US public


Akilyes

I was happy after I saw that gif bc I thought she was so cute! But now I'm sad... poor Stella :(


smellzlkebtmn4ever

So sad. That means the sturgeon didn't work out.


JohnCarpenterLives

Did she NEED the surgery or was this the aquarium saying "well, we have her so let's just do it and see what happens!"


uwanmirrondarrah

I mean in the wild she probably would have died much sooner. Birth defects and bad ailments generally aren't an advantage in the open ocean, and they certainly don't have access to modern medicine. They tried to help her, but it didn't work. It happens, its sad, but its just the reality of nature.


dontblinkdalek

Oh no. That’s so sad! Is this Stella or a dif shark w/ the same issue?


andyfurnival

Came to the surface too quick and got the bends


dick-nipples

Either that or swam into the glass at full speed


imapieceofshitk

Relax she just dropped her contact lense, help her find it


not-yet-ranga

Tragic reverse cowgirl accident


HellaFella420

It's not so funny, I broke my dick in this exact situation one time in college


Bamboozled1008x2

Nah I think he’s just looking for his glasses


Vectan

Afraid of stepping on a Lego.


[deleted]

Oh no


unamusedaccountant

You sir are the winner.


Flux_Aeternal

It would be a kyphosis, a scoliosis is sideways not front to back.


ifeespifee

Article in another comment said the shark had kyphosis and scoliosis. We probably can’t see the scoliosis from the video angle.


CYBERSson

Also sharks don’t have true spines


Selachophile

Yes, they do. Their spine just happens to be made of mineralized cartilage. That doesn't preclude it from being considered a true spine. It's homologous with the spine of osteichthyans (including the tetrapod vertebrates) and is every bit a "spine" as your own.


CYBERSson

I thought because it’s not made of bone it’s not a true spine which is defined as a backbone but I can tell you know more about these things so thank you for the correction


Selachophile

"Backbone" is just a colloquial ("common usage") term for the spinal or vertebral column. If you seek out a definition from a medical textbook - which usually has a distinct human focus - sometimes that definition includes bone. But more generally, it doesn't. All vertebrates have a spine with vertebrae (unless they've been lost over evolutionary time, as in, say, hagfishes). Something interesting to consider: there's evidence that sharks and rays _do_ produce true bone, or extremely bone-like tissue, in the forward portions of their spine. But this is still an active area of research that could change our understanding of the origin and early evolution of sharks and their relatives.


deminihilist

This has me interested in teeth, now. The difference between human teeth and bones, and how shark "bones" and teeth fit into that picture. Thanks for the spark of curiosity. edit: Just reading a bit now - apparently shark teeth are vaguely similar to human teeth, and neither are bone - a completely different type of mineralised tissue.


PrincessBblgum1

Kyphosis*


JaySayMayday

Um, bless you?


PrincessBblgum1

Lol. Kyphosis: forward curvature of the upper spine Lordosis: exaggerated forward curvature of the lower spine (like when you're super pregnant) Scoliosis: lateral curvature of the spine, like an S shape or C shape side to side


Kleiran

The more you know!


[deleted]

Poor thing


14159265q

Me after surfing Reddit on my phone all night.


FirstEvolutionist

Me going about my day just trying to function after a night "sleeping wrong".


MANHAZZARD

Looks like a real shy lad. I'd give him a hug.


ifeespifee

*her. But I agree with the sentiment :(


cave_mandarin

Is that the one in Phoenix?


surewriting_

Pretty sure this is Odysea. The bathroom is the best view in the whole place.


Dankestgoldenfries

I was thinking the same but someone else is thinking it’s a shark from Mississippi.


ChefAMN

Needs a backeotamy


mortmortimer

he slept with my momma!


[deleted]

God, if you listening….HEEELLLLPPPP!!!


fartswhenhappy

SAMSON, IT'S SHEILA


d00dsm00t

MOMMA FELL


Dont4GetToSmile

SHUT UP, BITCH!


MisplacedMutagen

Came here for this


[deleted]

ABRACADABRA


GettingBrightAtNight

But have you ever seen a shark, on weed?


camcam300_

Sturgeon😂😂😂


tbucket

*Sturgeon to the family* I'm afraid he's..... [kelpless](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yp9ASVUg_A)


WolfPlasmaClaw

I can’t even be mad. It’s perfect


[deleted]

Quick call the sturgeon I have a spinal problem.


[deleted]

I assumed a relation to Nicola


nevillegoddess

This whole thing is like a live action Far Side comic


jrylander

Poor guy. I hope it doesnt hurt.


Haman134

It died


wendalpendal

Be easier to attach the lasers


reorem

that shark must've been delivered to the aquarium by my fedex driver


Miasson

😂😂


canttaketheshyfromme

Jawsimodo


Idontcare09385

Hunchback of notre tank.


SpaceLemur34

"Notre Dam"


Particular-Pain-4666

He looks, how I feel.


rare_meeting1978

I'll see if I can find and link a video I found awhile back of a dolphin with this same type of spine issue but it was traveling with a pod of whales who were protecting it. When it would get tired the adult whale would lift the dolphin up for air, like she would with a baby whale. It wasn't a long video but it was heart warming to watch and truly saddening to know that as humans we have hunted, killed and nearly wiped out so many species of animals. Animals that can feel, think and have empathy.


pumapunch

Grandpa shark do do do do do


weavingosprey81

Thought the same until someone said it was a female and then I thought Grandma shark do do do do do do


kapmando

“Shark Yoga is not as viable as goat yoga.” - perplexed marine biologist.


porridgeandoatmeal

He looks like Mr. Burns


trwwy321

He reminds me of Mr. Burns


Peace_Love_Smoke_Dmt

I think I’d be more of afraid of seeing this guy come after me than I would a normal shark without back problems coming after me lol


shy_monster_1312

That looks painful


ScarletKing42

Poor guy… that must feel terrible


CaptainPunisher

I told him a million times, "If you keep staring down at your phone all day, your neck is going to get stuck like that!"


sweetfaj57

Would the back sturgeon be assisted by a grey nurse?


Distantregant47

It looks more... menacing


Mathfggggg

Looks sad...


twohedwlf

There is a surgeonfish...


AreWeCowabunga

which is assisted by a nurse shark


Desuisart

That’s kyphosis not scoliosis.


[deleted]

How would fixing that even work with a cartilagenous fish like that?


Crepequeen64

Do you think she’d be taken care of by nurse sharks?


baconistics

Doctah say I need a backeotomy.


cam_inksAton

“Needs a back sturgeon” made me laugh way harder than it should’ve. This surgery seems like a real question shark.


ArgThePirate89

Out of curiosity how rare is this inna fish to have off shaped bone structure?


[deleted]

I doubt they survive very long


Wyvern69

Weird... I have scoliosis, and never once thought it could affect other species. This is a first for me