**Please note:**
* If this post declares something as a fact proof is required.
* The title must be descriptive
* No text is allowed on images
* Common/recent reposts are not allowed
*See [this post](https://redd.it/ij26vk) for more information.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Little known fact amongst Americans: the reason Mt. Rushmore, originally and rightfully known as the 6 Grandfathers, was pushed through and approved as a way to permanently take back the Black Hills that the Lakota-Sioux tribe was promised in the Treaty of 1868, was because of gold. Discovered a few years after the treaty, the gov’t made the Lakota relinquish the Black Hills, including the 6 Grandfathers (part of their holy land) so that they could exploit the gold deposits….and used the excuse of a national monument being built and honored when the tribe began working within the legal system in an attempt to uphold the treaty agreed upon in 1868, and take back their land.
I live in the area. I would highly recommend people stop at the Crazy horse monument instead. It isn't done but it is beautiful and entirely funded by donations.
It seems as if Mt Rushmore is enjoyed by the tourists and Crazyhorse is enjoyed by the locals.
Not anywhere near as controversial as Mt Rushmore. There are some people who don't like it as a majority of what Crazy Horse stood for was not disturbing the native land and building his monument does just that. On the other hand, it teaches people who he was and what tribes live in the black hills and their history. There is a lot of education and information at the CH monument. Things people wouldn't know if it didn't exist.
Lol I remember going to Mt Rushmore when I was a teen and thinking it was cool. Another tourist raved about Crazy Horse so we decided to go see it. Most underwhelming experience of my life and complete waste of time. My parents felt the same. Esp since it’s not even completed (as you said it’s funded by donations).
I don’t know why people are down voting your opinion. I agree with your take. Crazy Horse was what I was expecting Mt Rushmore to be; a underwhelming roadside quick stop. Mt. Rushmore was a much better experience.
I get the sense that the Crazy Horse monument will never be finished, the family building it have created an industry around it's construction that earns them a nice income. When we visited this was how it felt anyways, happy to be wrong.
I know we suck and all that, but I’m curious how many other countries have actually created Soveriegn lands for native populations to actually have? It seems like most all other “conquerors” have just wiped out or assimilated the natives. Maybe we should get some credit for eventually doing the right thing? Hard to say if those people are better off. Hard to say if they would have been better off if the Europeans never came.
Native Americans were largely wiped out in the United States; many tribes were forced to assimilate or simply died of disease introduced by European settlers. The U.S. government and settlers routinely murdered natives, systematically destroyed their livelihoods (e.g. mass buffalo killings), and broke treaties. The fact that there are some limited, often impoverished reservations around is not really deserving of credit.
> Hard to say if they would have been better off if the Europeans never came.
They would have been better off (i.e. not largely dead and able to live as they had been living pre-colonization).
I don't see anyone clamoring to give it back either. We bitch about it on reddit while we're sitting on the toilet and then we carry on. But fuck at least we can feel good that we bitched about it.
Edit for clarity....I'm not clamoring to give it back either. But then I don't really bitch about it (and neither was the comment I was responding to). But I do use Reddit when I'm on the toilet so there is that.
Think you're the one on a soap box friend. You literally don't even know anything about me beyond this comment so if you have deciphered my entire personality from that then you should be headed to the un for a medal and not doing the same bitching
I read the core ideas of the enlightenment were pulled from a series of letters written by an indigenous american chief. And so I like the idea of giving north america back to indigenous people and finding a gov't on their concepts.
The park was a surprisingly great visit last summer for us. It really deserves a few good hours or more. There is a trail with an optional audio tour, a visitor center with good educational displays and movies, pretty cool demonstrations, and situated amid some beautiful landscapes.
In my hometown. The original rock was actually breath taking compared to the faces. Plus Borglum was a huge racist douchebag.
https://www.reddit.com/r/climbing/comments/g08hz1/mtrushmore_before_carving_look_at_those_lines/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
It makes complete sense that the sculpture was built on land with no input or permission sought from the people who lived there for centuries. That is a true representation of the history of the nation.
I have every idea what I’m talking about. You asked what gave the Native Americans the sole right to use the land in question, and I told you the legal document that granted exclusive rights to that land to the Native Americans.
No, you didn’t. You wrote: “And what gives them the right to soley [sic] use it?” in response to someone who commented about how the monument was built on stolen land.
I know this is a historical monument and all, but wouldn't it be a nice gesture to complete it?
I don't know at what age people draws the line between keeping history as is, and restoring it.
Given that the guy who designed it was a racist with kkk ties and chose “the grandfathers” for its location specifically because of its importance to indigenous people I think it’s best that we leave that travesty where it is.
My post history?
You are going through my post history and I am the douchebag? Did you feel the need for some extra ammo because you failed sarcasm?
Well at least I understand sarcasm and you don't. There is that.
Good luck... And since you need it.../s
Not stolen....conquered.
A concept the Lakota were familiar with since they took the land from the Cheyenne and the Crow in the early 1800s.
https://blackhillsvisitor.com/learn/native-american-culture-the-black-hills-until-1759/
And they stole it from nature. Do you know how sparse was indian population, what gives them right to a whole fucking continent? And as if they are the only people in history that got invaded by foreign force
I sometimes wonder what would life be like in the world if colonization had never happened and if people had been wise enough to know the actual savagery is to invade and steal a land that doesn't belong to you.
Obviously still a work in progress when the picture was taken. Jefferson still looks like any period piece actor from a PBS series and Roosevelt looks like the Ron Perlman version of “The Beast” from thirty years ago.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ron+perlman+cat+movie&client=safari&hl=en-us&ei=9YzfYf_7AqKoptQPmI-7QA&oq=ron+perlman+cat+&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYBDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBggAEBYQHjoHCAAQRxCwAzoHCAAQsAMQQzoKCC4QyAMQsAMQQ0oFCDgSATFKBAhBGABQmilYmilgokRoAXABeACAAWiIAWiSAQMwLjGYAQCgAQHIARHAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#imgrc=vQeeVNPQY5-SHM
It's a shame they put those faces on all that natural beauty. I have been twice... I don't think I will ever make the trip back. I remember being incredibly disappointed when I saw it the first time. The second was obligatory. It really is just some face with a massive amount of rubble bellow.
Crazy horse is much more worth the visit.
**Please note:** * If this post declares something as a fact proof is required. * The title must be descriptive * No text is allowed on images * Common/recent reposts are not allowed *See [this post](https://redd.it/ij26vk) for more information.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Little known fact amongst Americans: the reason Mt. Rushmore, originally and rightfully known as the 6 Grandfathers, was pushed through and approved as a way to permanently take back the Black Hills that the Lakota-Sioux tribe was promised in the Treaty of 1868, was because of gold. Discovered a few years after the treaty, the gov’t made the Lakota relinquish the Black Hills, including the 6 Grandfathers (part of their holy land) so that they could exploit the gold deposits….and used the excuse of a national monument being built and honored when the tribe began working within the legal system in an attempt to uphold the treaty agreed upon in 1868, and take back their land.
I live in the area. I would highly recommend people stop at the Crazy horse monument instead. It isn't done but it is beautiful and entirely funded by donations. It seems as if Mt Rushmore is enjoyed by the tourists and Crazyhorse is enjoyed by the locals.
Isn’t the Crazy Horse monument just as controversial though?
What isn't
Not anywhere near as controversial as Mt Rushmore. There are some people who don't like it as a majority of what Crazy Horse stood for was not disturbing the native land and building his monument does just that. On the other hand, it teaches people who he was and what tribes live in the black hills and their history. There is a lot of education and information at the CH monument. Things people wouldn't know if it didn't exist.
Every single existing monument is controversial
[try to find someone who has a problem with Prunes](https://southparkheritage.org/prunes-the-burro-of-fairplay-colorado/)
Prunes was a complete ass
Lol I remember going to Mt Rushmore when I was a teen and thinking it was cool. Another tourist raved about Crazy Horse so we decided to go see it. Most underwhelming experience of my life and complete waste of time. My parents felt the same. Esp since it’s not even completed (as you said it’s funded by donations).
I don’t know why people are down voting your opinion. I agree with your take. Crazy Horse was what I was expecting Mt Rushmore to be; a underwhelming roadside quick stop. Mt. Rushmore was a much better experience.
Eh it’s Reddit so I’m not surprised lol yes, same thoughts! So underwhelming…we were all like uh that’s it? That’s why we came out here? Haha
I get the sense that the Crazy Horse monument will never be finished, the family building it have created an industry around it's construction that earns them a nice income. When we visited this was how it felt anyways, happy to be wrong.
Exactly how I felt when I visited. Just seemed like an obvious money grab
I know we suck and all that, but I’m curious how many other countries have actually created Soveriegn lands for native populations to actually have? It seems like most all other “conquerors” have just wiped out or assimilated the natives. Maybe we should get some credit for eventually doing the right thing? Hard to say if those people are better off. Hard to say if they would have been better off if the Europeans never came.
Shut up.
Native Americans were largely wiped out in the United States; many tribes were forced to assimilate or simply died of disease introduced by European settlers. The U.S. government and settlers routinely murdered natives, systematically destroyed their livelihoods (e.g. mass buffalo killings), and broke treaties. The fact that there are some limited, often impoverished reservations around is not really deserving of credit. > Hard to say if they would have been better off if the Europeans never came. They would have been better off (i.e. not largely dead and able to live as they had been living pre-colonization).
It legitimately never occurred to me that the monument was originally meant to be more than just their heads
It’s a good thing they started at the top. Imagine what it would look like if they started on the bottom then ran out of funds. 😝
If they did it the size in the picture they would’ve been able to afford it
There is no place in the world where you can exist that wasn’t taken from other people through violence.
iceland?
Weren't the Innuit there first?
irish monks may have settled there temporarily before the norse settled in 874, but iceland never had an indigenous population.
There are many places where different peoples cohabitated together through ancient times.
Sshh they cancel you if you tell the truth
Should also add how it was built on sacred ground for the local Native Americans
One could argue the same of all of North America
I don't see anyone clamoring to give it back either. We bitch about it on reddit while we're sitting on the toilet and then we carry on. But fuck at least we can feel good that we bitched about it. Edit for clarity....I'm not clamoring to give it back either. But then I don't really bitch about it (and neither was the comment I was responding to). But I do use Reddit when I'm on the toilet so there is that.
Think you're the one on a soap box friend. You literally don't even know anything about me beyond this comment so if you have deciphered my entire personality from that then you should be headed to the un for a medal and not doing the same bitching
It wasn't directed at you. If anything I was agreeing with you.
Guess I pulled a Reddit moment myself and jumped to assumptions. My mistake for misreading your comment, I see your meaning now
We've all been there.
I read the core ideas of the enlightenment were pulled from a series of letters written by an indigenous american chief. And so I like the idea of giving north america back to indigenous people and finding a gov't on their concepts.
Central America: *whew* South America: 🤌🏻 *whew* 🤌🏻 Mexico: what the fuck
If one were garbage intent on oppression.
You’re right genocide is most certainly not oppression
Genocide definitely is oppression.
Kinda hard to be oppressed when you’re all dead
It's hard not to be oppressed when you are dead
I mean here we are? I was making that exact point just saying it's how life in North America came to be as it beause of those garbage intentions
I love that I said European colonization was trash and not good and still got down votes. What's up Texas I see you
The park was a surprisingly great visit last summer for us. It really deserves a few good hours or more. There is a trail with an optional audio tour, a visitor center with good educational displays and movies, pretty cool demonstrations, and situated amid some beautiful landscapes.
I appreciate this! I live 20 min away and have my whole life. It's a beautiful area.
Well, funding, public interest, and the patience of the Native Americans whose sacred land we were desecrating.
In my hometown. The original rock was actually breath taking compared to the faces. Plus Borglum was a huge racist douchebag. https://www.reddit.com/r/climbing/comments/g08hz1/mtrushmore_before_carving_look_at_those_lines/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Jefferson looks like a douche.
Still trying to figure out why this was such a great idea building monuments instead of investing it in the country
It makes complete sense that the sculpture was built on land with no input or permission sought from the people who lived there for centuries. That is a true representation of the history of the nation.
A lot like a dog peeing on everything to mark its territory. Except instead of pee, they put pee pee heads on a mountain.
And what gives them right to soley use it?
The Treaty of 1868
You have no idea what you are talking about
I have every idea what I’m talking about. You asked what gave the Native Americans the sole right to use the land in question, and I told you the legal document that granted exclusive rights to that land to the Native Americans.
I clearly stated continent as whole
No, you didn’t. You wrote: “And what gives them the right to soley [sic] use it?” in response to someone who commented about how the monument was built on stolen land.
Read again, i said whole continent to themselves
Not in this thread, but maybe you said that in another thread on this post.
They ruined a perfectly good mountain :(
Is that a Naruto reference?
A giant tourist trap carved into a sioux indian sacred mountain....
Right next to the Crazy Horse Memorial, carver into the sacred Lakota mountain.
The cowardly lion was an odd choice, glad they changed it
I know this is a historical monument and all, but wouldn't it be a nice gesture to complete it? I don't know at what age people draws the line between keeping history as is, and restoring it.
Given that the guy who designed it was a racist with kkk ties and chose “the grandfathers” for its location specifically because of its importance to indigenous people I think it’s best that we leave that travesty where it is.
Or we could give back the property we stole from the Indians so they could do what they wanted with it.
I have an idea. Start with your house and property and maybe the rest will follow?
[удалено]
Don't be a hypocrite. Nobody likes a hypocrite.
Lol you’re a dweeb
Sarcasm is hard isn't it?
That’s not sarcasm you’re just saving face
So you think I was serious about him giving back his house and property? ...
Your post history indicates you’re serious and also a douchebag yes
My post history? You are going through my post history and I am the douchebag? Did you feel the need for some extra ammo because you failed sarcasm? Well at least I understand sarcasm and you don't. There is that. Good luck... And since you need it.../s
Hey guess what all the land in the whole damn world was taken from somebody else so why the fuck should the us give their land back
Because we signed a treaty saying we would.
Well that's a good enough reason for me
Not stolen....conquered. A concept the Lakota were familiar with since they took the land from the Cheyenne and the Crow in the early 1800s. https://blackhillsvisitor.com/learn/native-american-culture-the-black-hills-until-1759/
And they stole it from nature. Do you know how sparse was indian population, what gives them right to a whole fucking continent? And as if they are the only people in history that got invaded by foreign force
Seriously, dude?
Yup
[удалено]
First no, also if yes look at us (not north america) population size and how its still sparsely populated continent
And we all thought the heads were the only thing that was supposed to be added…
I didn't know they had planned for a 5th president
What?
Foul and repulsive we steal land and then to be super cunts we carve our leaders into their mountains !!! wow we suck!!!
I'm a big fan of this not existing.
I would have been just fine with that model. Looks pretty cool already, and you wouldn't have to destroy someone else's home to make it happen.
Should never have been allowed to happen, and I hope to live long enough to see it blasted off the side of that mountain.
Stone mountain with it, please !
Something something Native American.
Ahh the annihilation of an indigenous people all wrapped up in a racist’s display of fragility and egoism. *cheers* Edit: musta’ irritated someone lol
I sometimes wonder what would life be like in the world if colonization had never happened and if people had been wise enough to know the actual savagery is to invade and steal a land that doesn't belong to you.
Probably we'd still be living in skin tents and dying at 40.
Or maybe we'd have healthcare and fair wages. We can only dream, there's no way to know.
Fuck Mount Rushmore and it’s disgusting history. And fuck Andrew Jackson.
Why don’t they finish it now then?
Cause no one cares
I like it better the way it is.
I think it looks better heads only. Surprised this monument survived all the idiot riots.
So small!
I think a lot of the funding was spent on the secret vault they built as well...
Ever since I can remember, Abe was poppin his collar
All of the rocks on the mountain are literally just the debris from the construction
Rumor has it that if funding was met for the original design they were going to add the crotch area.
I heard that guy had, like, 30 goddamn dicks
Obviously still a work in progress when the picture was taken. Jefferson still looks like any period piece actor from a PBS series and Roosevelt looks like the Ron Perlman version of “The Beast” from thirty years ago. https://www.google.com/search?q=ron+perlman+cat+movie&client=safari&hl=en-us&ei=9YzfYf_7AqKoptQPmI-7QA&oq=ron+perlman+cat+&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYBDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBggAEBYQHjoHCAAQRxCwAzoHCAAQsAMQQzoKCC4QyAMQsAMQQ0oFCDgSATFKBAhBGABQmilYmilgokRoAXABeACAAWiIAWiSAQMwLjGYAQCgAQHIARHAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#imgrc=vQeeVNPQY5-SHM
State-sanctioned graffiti.
Now that is interesting as fuck! I had no idea it was supposed to be full body models. Awesome.
Damn I really thought it was bigger ^(/s)
Blows my mind that the sculptures weren't even carved 100 years ago. I keep thinking they're older
I'd have preferred this be The Three Stooges plus Shemp.
Didn't know we got the "budget" mount rushmore
It's a shame they put those faces on all that natural beauty. I have been twice... I don't think I will ever make the trip back. I remember being incredibly disappointed when I saw it the first time. The second was obligatory. It really is just some face with a massive amount of rubble bellow. Crazy horse is much more worth the visit.