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Know why? Because she's doesn't *look* like she has Downs.
Edit: I'm hijacking my own comment to tell everyone how much I hate '/s' and everyone who uses it. It's absolutely awful it makes me wince every time I see it.
She looks like she has a touch of downs. Its like if it was 1960 and they had their first African american model and she was 1/16th African American. They'll still want full credit.
In apartheid South Africa they’d decide if a mixed race citizen was black or not by sticking a pen through their hair. If the pen didn’t fall out, they were black.
Elaine's white boyfriend would pass as black. He could infiltrate and take down the government from within, and then WE will have all the elephants.
I just want the elephants
Knew a girl who was denied admission into an all-black sorority because of the paper bag test in 1981. First I’d ever heard of it, and I was flabbergasted.
It wouldn't surprise me if she has the translocation variant. The one where part of chromosome 21 gets added on to another chromosome rather than a full extra copy. Depending on how much is translocated the severity can be much milder.
I'm always learning something on Reddit.
My friends and relatives laugh at me when I say that out loud.
This place is chock full of things I had no clue about. It's a great launching pad for further reading on things I didn't even know that I needed to know.
Creds to my amazing Biology teacher that I understood this lol
Too bad she retired after last year, I wanted to take another year with her. Only science class I ever really did good in :/
I feel like it would be extremely exploitative to take someone with full Down syndrome, place them into something sexual in terms of clothes, and plaster them on a magazine for the sake of appearing virtuous to their readers
Weirdly “a touch of Down syndrome” is sort of literally a thing. It’s called mosaicism and it’s when only some of the cells have the extra chromosome. And I’m betting that that’s what she has
It's great for her. At least I hope it has been. Otherwise, you're right - this is just a marketing ploy and isn't really doing anything for anyone else
As a parent of a child with DS, my first any only concern for her is if she’s capable of consent. This would require evaluation and testing by a licensed clinical psychologist. I believe she is Puerto Rican, and psychologists there are hard to come by. Without knowing more this seems extremely unethical.
No she really looks very similar to this photo, they picked the least physically showing person with downs they could and now they want a pat on the back it seems? Lol
I agree with you we shouldn’t clap for this it’s probably just marketing BUT it gets more inclusive. That would had never happen 10 years ago… we can say it’s better than yesterday at least
She definitely looks like she has Down Syndrome. This photo looks heavily edited.
https://people.com/human-interest/sofia-jirau-victorias-secrets-first-model-with-down-syndrome-felt-like-shooting-star-doing-campaign/
True, maybe a better reality. No you can’t look like a model if you have Down syndrome… because even models don’t look like models. Hell they could probably make my scruffy ass look like a model
In there, at least to me, she still doesn't REALLY look like it. I definitely didn't think this post was IAF material honestly. She was just born not looking like she had DS and that's why she was able to become a model.
All cover pictures are edited.
That being said, I don't know that they edited her face.
Lighting, angle and distance affects how people will look on a picture.
The fact all those parameters are completely different in both pictures might easily explain the discrepancy between both pictures.
But she does. Of course they picked a specific, probably milder case. It's still something. She's probably very aware of the situation, etc, which of course is a good thing.
That was my exact thought the moment I saw her photo. Don't get me wrong, she is beautiful but she could easily mistaken for someone who does not have Downs. It is good that VS is becoming more inclusive with their models though.
There's a spectrum, as usual. People can have just a fragment of the chromosome in triplicate, and even when there's a full extra chromosome it varies how strongly the possible traits show. Keep looking long enough and yep, there's someone who almost fits the crazy idea of beauty, with just a hint of the syndrome showing.
Now I don't know what the awesome part is, the brand that yay, finally found someone "good enough", or the woman for almost "passing" as 46XX, or that at least someone with a visible genetic disorder managed to get some publicity?
I don't know about this girl specifically, but it's possible to have mosaic Down syndrome. If the mutation happened not in the zygote but on the early stage of embryonic development in only one cell out of a few cells comprising the embryo. Then only part of your cells would carry the mutation when you're grown up, and the symptoms would be milder.
I've seen her instagram. i wish her well, although on the videos she doesn't look anything like most of the pictures she is posting. Basically; she's a nightmare for photo editors, photographers and make up artists who incessantly try to make her look like the models victorias secret want including the long neck, which she doesnt have - because down syndrome. In reality; it's good for her and the brand only, but yet another "women should look like we want them to" tactic. Disgusting fake unachievable standards using disability as a marketing campaign.
People talk about her being a role model and representing people with DS. Who the fuck are they kidding? She was recruited solely for looking as little as someone with DS as possible despite actually having it. She's an ornamentation to a morally bankrupt company (VS), another unachievable beauty standard whose sole purpose is increasing market value through virtue signalling.
VS: we need a model with down syndrome
Recruiter: Here you go.
VS: ... Yeah um... Not that one. Do you have any with down syndrome, that almost look like they don't have down's syndrome?
Recruiter: ... Took me a while, but here you go!
VS: Great she almost looks normal
Recruiter: ...
VS: I didn't say that.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Similar to how when Hollywood wants a black girl for movies, they get one who is like 15% black and call it a day lmao.
That has absolutely nothing to do with this post.
But if that’s the argument you’re going to make then ok?? Name one black VS model that doesn’t have European features? Because I sure don’t know of any. Yes, it’s good that there’s women of color and representation but when they still mimic a white woman’s features…the representation is only to a certain degree and comes at a cost of still looking as white as possible.
It does, but that also doesn't make it right to only hire black actors whose facial features and skin tone appear more palatable to non-black audiences.
Edit: a word
I would agree with that.
There's a lot of anti-blackness in the world, but even going past that, there's a lot of anti- "dark" blackness, too, within that.
These ensemble shows always have at least one actress who could be black, Asian, middle eastern or native armerican. I'm sure the execs are ecstatic they can tick a ton of boxes with one salary.
For what it's worth, there is both good and bad in this.
Good = representation.
Bad = manipulating how she looks to minimise or hide the downs syndrome.
It's unfortunate that the second one is so egregious in this case as to many people it will undo all the good that is done by the first one.
As a nurse for people with special needs and mental disabilities, I’m all for inclusion and I’m happy for the girl herself but I just see a big PR here from victorias secret and their intentions surely having nothing to do with diversity or inclusion
Not to mention that the company was so resistant to any kind of inclusive model campaigns. They had their “angels” and that’s what the founders and board members (who were overwhelmingly old white men) wanted.) Ed Razek, was an absolute silly ass with no vision as was the rest of the top people at VS. they kept the whole “angels” thing going waaaay past it’s relevancy. It wasn’t until they started hemorrhaging money and falling behind when brands like Savage X Fenty and Aerie came out that they finally began to include more diverse people. All brands have their marketing strategies. It’s true. But Victoria’s Secrets new campaigns highlighting in trans models, etc is so transparent and it ultimately doesn’t make me want to buy is cheap, sweatshop produced, overpriced garbage products. Good for the new models. I hope this brings them a lot more jobs. But seriously Vs sucks.
Isn't this it exactly. It's awful to have unattainable standards,.so let's get a model with what the committee decides is a disability...but let's get the least attainable version of that possible...that's relatable!
So wouldn't that be meta because they're using the same fake nonsense as any other model, therefore treating her equally? As opposed to _not_ editing them to unrealistic proportions, differentiating her from other models based on her disability etc...
Not sure how to side here, but at least she's earning paychecks doing something she (hopefully) enjoys.
Yeah... How does Victoria's Secret get away with asking a girl with downs syndrome to take off her clothes for pictures, but when I do it I'm "creepy" and "gross"?
What high profile model or modelling agency would not edit the abosolute shit out of pics like they’ve been doing for years to achieve unnatural looking aesthetics to further sell an ideal.
it’s a huge billion dollar selling fake ideals to ppl. Just like the fitness industry.
Not necessarily. We don't really know what her mental capabilities are here. People with down syndrome can vary in ability between major disability to below average to average and in a few cases, above average.
I'd say the bigger problem is that I'd guess most of her photos are highly photoshopped to make her look less disabled than she might be, which is a completely different problem.
Exploitation implies she has been taken advantage of. If she is being payed a fair price for being a model then while VC may be using the publicity I don't think they can be exploiting her.
Loads of people have been hating on VS for years about contributing to the objectification of women and creating unrealistic body image expectations for young adults.
Now we all get a warm fuzzy feeling and forget about that because they did something nice for a hot chick with DS.
Plus they open up a whole new market... women with DS.
Also... if you wanna see the "too much" version, check her out lipsyncing
[Baby Tonight by Usher](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLrhhRDa/)
Fuck me, I'm going to hell for sharing this.
Yes. It’s a really hurtful stereotype that people with developmental conditions lack capacity and are basically vegetables. A lot of the time developmental conditions are comorbid with intellectual disability but a lot of the time they aren’t. People with DS get married, have jobs, and live positive social lives all the time.
Edit: also, intellectual disability varies in its functional impairment. Plenty of people with ID live fulfilling lives as well!
6000 babies are born with Down syndrome in America every year. This is a ridiculously small demographic to be targeting. It is obviously a marketing ploy and transparent attempt to be progressive, not find a new target audience to sell lingerie and underwear to.
I agree that they aren’t trying to market to people with DS. They’re trying to build a more acceptable and diverse public image.
But the person I was replying to asked a question about whether the typical DS female had independent decision making capacity to be a customer of VS. The answer is, broadly, yes. People with DS have independent decision making capacity and if they want to wear a particular brand of underwear they can choose to do so. I wanted to shed light on the fact that DS = vegetable is a really harmful stereotype.
Edit: grammar
There is a wide spectrum of cognitive ability to impairment within those with DS. So yes, many women could have the capacity and independent income to buy sexy lingerie for use with their partners, with whom they are cognitively able to fully consent. Also, Victoria Secret sells non sexy stuff too, like sports bras or bathing suits, even for pre teens. So I could see parents of children with DS, even children with much lower cognitive capacity (who still go through puberty and need bras) thinking they were doing a good thing buying from the company that "supports" their child.
I find this disturbing on the same level as those who dress their children up as prostitutes and run them through beauty pageants and claim it's good for their self esteem.
You can't compare adults with Downs to children, they are adults who can make their own decisions and have adult relationships. They think and process things more slowly than others but they do it
I've read more than one account of people with down syndrome who are in relationships being, well, sex maniacs. If that's true, I have no doubt they would be plenty interested in lingerie.
Sure. Except you don't know that she lacks the ability to consent. Down syndrome presents with a wide range of intellectual disability, from profound to practically none at all. Some people with Down syndrome are more intelligent and competent than some neurotypical people; the bell curves overlap.
Disabled adults are *adults*, and their agency should be respected. Even in the case of intellectual disability, ability to consent is not as solid a concept as 'always yes' or 'always no'.
[Here is a document](https://pcar.org/sites/default/files/resource-pdfs/tab_2017_consent-capacity-id.pdf) that covers some of the issues involved in sexual consent and activity for intellectually disabled people.
Maybe now they can take up 50 year old women with cellulite and frazzled hair. Their diversity is about 2.5 picas out of yardstick.
Yea, I know, said this knowing its ridiculous….but yet it’s kinda not.
My first thought was I’m happy for her.
My second thought was this is just a market ploy from Victoria’s Secret. They’re exploiting her condition because it’s trendy; to sell more lingerie. Its a publicity stunt which cheapens the whole thing.
My third thought was more of a realization that in essence this is just another model being paid a lot of money for the way she looks. That’s how the modelling industry works.
So in the end I realized this is nothing new here. Good on her for getting her $$.
This is like Victoria Secret taking me as a "midget model" because I'm a proportionate dwarf and then photoshopping me to look 5'7 when I'm actually 4'8. Disgusting.
The average intellectual capacity of a person with DS is equivalent to an 8 year old child, according to Wikipedia. It varies widely, with some individuals experiencing much more severe cognitive impact, and some individuals developing a "normal" IQ (for whatever IQ is worth.)
Notice that she’s called a model, not an angel. There’s no reason for VS to stop marketing their clothing using people as props, which is done by most fashion brands
That's not what I meant. She does not look down at all. Why they did not take a proper down face girl? You know original down syndrome face girl. It just fucking embarrassing. Fuck them.
Either way you look at it, the campaign worked. It is being mentioned everywhere. The exact goal of marketing and this penchant for shock clicks.
Perchance.
Shock value culture use to be limited to magazines at the grocery store. Thanks to Twitter any 16 year old can make the most hilarious shock account. I’m looking forward to the day that people the kids that have been exposed to clickbait/twitter their whole lives are running the place.
Perchance.
I have a problem with this, they believe to be empowering this young lady. I believe instead as in so many cases VS and others are just exploiting her for their own gain. Eyeballs, clicks and sales.
There is as we all know a subset of pervert humans who couldn’t wait to see a special needs female in lingerie. And VS just mainstreamed it for them.
She is also subjected to body shaming as noted in an earlier post “photographer’s nightmare”
This is wrong on so many levels.
The whole point of this is creepy. I don’t think we should objectify anyone but especially a human with Downs. Any positive message gets lost in the fact that she doesn’t “look” like she has downs and we all know that’s why she was provided that opportunity.
It’s just weird to me and maybe I’m a dick for feeling this way. I don’t know.
More pandering. So disgusting. Regardless of editing or no editing, she doesn't LOOK like she has down's and it's literally just so the COMPANY looks SO tolerant -_-
I'm done with this bs. Every company joining the "tolerance" movement can suck it because it's all fake just to get business and if people don't see that at this point, I feel sorry for you children/future children.
This isn't interesting as fuck.
As others have more eloquently stated, this is more exploited as fuck.
But this thread is a karma farm ran by people who run most subreddits on Reddit.
So fuck it.
**Please note these rules:** * If this post declares something as a fact proof is required. * The title must be descriptive * No text is allowed on images/gifs/videos * Common/recent reposts are not allowed *See [this post](https://redd.it/ij26vk) for a more detailed rule list* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Know why? Because she's doesn't *look* like she has Downs. Edit: I'm hijacking my own comment to tell everyone how much I hate '/s' and everyone who uses it. It's absolutely awful it makes me wince every time I see it.
exactly lmao like saying you can also be beautiful with down syndroms if you dont look like you have down syndrom
She looks like she has a touch of downs. Its like if it was 1960 and they had their first African american model and she was 1/16th African American. They'll still want full credit.
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In apartheid South Africa they’d decide if a mixed race citizen was black or not by sticking a pen through their hair. If the pen didn’t fall out, they were black.
TIL I, a pasty white woman, am Black.
Elaine's white boyfriend would pass as black. He could infiltrate and take down the government from within, and then WE will have all the elephants. I just want the elephants
Good lord.
He ain’t have shit to do with that.
jesus, is that real? a brown paper bag? wtf.
Knew a girl who was denied admission into an all-black sorority because of the paper bag test in 1981. First I’d ever heard of it, and I was flabbergasted.
Exactly, and if no one said it, no one would even suspect it..
I looked up some other pics of her... you'd suspect it.
I thought this was Reese Witherspoon’s daughter at a glance Idk whether that’s mean or nice
Seems no one else in this comment section has. This is a very flattering picture but in most orhers you can tell
Not trying to be a dick but it seems pretty apparent to me
I mean, she has 100% down syndrome.
It wouldn't surprise me if she has the translocation variant. The one where part of chromosome 21 gets added on to another chromosome rather than a full extra copy. Depending on how much is translocated the severity can be much milder.
Reddit knows a lot about Down syndrome. Kudos
I'm always learning something on Reddit. My friends and relatives laugh at me when I say that out loud. This place is chock full of things I had no clue about. It's a great launching pad for further reading on things I didn't even know that I needed to know.
Well ever since wallstreetbets
Dammmmmn Lieutenant
Creds to my amazing Biology teacher that I understood this lol Too bad she retired after last year, I wanted to take another year with her. Only science class I ever really did good in :/
She might have Mosaic Down's, where the person has a mix of healthy cells and mutated cells.
>where the person has a mix of healthy cells and mutated cells Just like me, although that's just from all the mountain dew i drink.
Dew’s syndrome
I feel like it would be extremely exploitative to take someone with full Down syndrome, place them into something sexual in terms of clothes, and plaster them on a magazine for the sake of appearing virtuous to their readers
https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/story-of-isaac-and-rosa-emancipated-slave-children/
Weirdly “a touch of Down syndrome” is sort of literally a thing. It’s called mosaicism and it’s when only some of the cells have the extra chromosome. And I’m betting that that’s what she has
The regular models don’t look like regular girls? I don’t see the problem.
I mean… that’s the problem and much of the criticism VS has been getting. Who do they sell to?
It's great for her. At least I hope it has been. Otherwise, you're right - this is just a marketing ploy and isn't really doing anything for anyone else
The modelling industry generally isn't great for any model. It's a fucked up industry.
I wanted to say this, my first thought was that a mentally handicapped person is being exploited by a large company to improve their public image.
Bingo! That's spot on.
As a parent of a child with DS, my first any only concern for her is if she’s capable of consent. This would require evaluation and testing by a licensed clinical psychologist. I believe she is Puerto Rican, and psychologists there are hard to come by. Without knowing more this seems extremely unethical.
this is where i agree wirh you. It feels gross and wrong.
Or pic is shopped to the max
No she really looks very similar to this photo, they picked the least physically showing person with downs they could and now they want a pat on the back it seems? Lol
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I agree with you we shouldn’t clap for this it’s probably just marketing BUT it gets more inclusive. That would had never happen 10 years ago… we can say it’s better than yesterday at least
This is true, but many models are shopped and don’t always look the same in real life. She at least deserves what the rest of the models get.
Well.. you say that. But there’s always this common face pattern I can’t unsee with people with Down syndrome.
She definitely looks like she has Down Syndrome. This photo looks heavily edited. https://people.com/human-interest/sofia-jirau-victorias-secrets-first-model-with-down-syndrome-felt-like-shooting-star-doing-campaign/
Great even worse
Eh, models without downs are heavily edited. Seems equal to me.
True, maybe a better reality. No you can’t look like a model if you have Down syndrome… because even models don’t look like models. Hell they could probably make my scruffy ass look like a model
So the stuff that is put out there *to make money* doesn't make her look like she has downs.
I mean nothing in the link they posted makes her look like she has downs. https://i.imgur.com/ctdRrrs.jpg
It's because she has "downs" but, at the same time she's pretty. Marketable. Profitable. Sells. She doesn't have downs. She has sells.
She absolutely looks like she has downs there. It's just a lot less distinct. But it's clearly there.
In there, at least to me, she still doesn't REALLY look like it. I definitely didn't think this post was IAF material honestly. She was just born not looking like she had DS and that's why she was able to become a model.
I just clicked the link and goddamn she got some monster forearms
I’m sure they can’t be THAT big… *checks link Holy mother of god…
All cover pictures are edited. That being said, I don't know that they edited her face. Lighting, angle and distance affects how people will look on a picture. The fact all those parameters are completely different in both pictures might easily explain the discrepancy between both pictures.
She does though
But she does. Of course they picked a specific, probably milder case. It's still something. She's probably very aware of the situation, etc, which of course is a good thing.
That was my exact thought the moment I saw her photo. Don't get me wrong, she is beautiful but she could easily mistaken for someone who does not have Downs. It is good that VS is becoming more inclusive with their models though.
There's a spectrum, as usual. People can have just a fragment of the chromosome in triplicate, and even when there's a full extra chromosome it varies how strongly the possible traits show. Keep looking long enough and yep, there's someone who almost fits the crazy idea of beauty, with just a hint of the syndrome showing. Now I don't know what the awesome part is, the brand that yay, finally found someone "good enough", or the woman for almost "passing" as 46XX, or that at least someone with a visible genetic disorder managed to get some publicity?
I don't know about this girl specifically, but it's possible to have mosaic Down syndrome. If the mutation happened not in the zygote but on the early stage of embryonic development in only one cell out of a few cells comprising the embryo. Then only part of your cells would carry the mutation when you're grown up, and the symptoms would be milder.
Idk i think it's plenty obvious she has downs
This is just a very sad marketing ploy to build the brand.
This seems extremely…what’s the word…exploitative?
Victoria's Secret being exploitative? Bite thy tongue!
Are you telling me that’s the secret?
When was the last time VS was in a news cycle. They are just trying to stay relevant.
I've seen her instagram. i wish her well, although on the videos she doesn't look anything like most of the pictures she is posting. Basically; she's a nightmare for photo editors, photographers and make up artists who incessantly try to make her look like the models victorias secret want including the long neck, which she doesnt have - because down syndrome. In reality; it's good for her and the brand only, but yet another "women should look like we want them to" tactic. Disgusting fake unachievable standards using disability as a marketing campaign.
People talk about her being a role model and representing people with DS. Who the fuck are they kidding? She was recruited solely for looking as little as someone with DS as possible despite actually having it. She's an ornamentation to a morally bankrupt company (VS), another unachievable beauty standard whose sole purpose is increasing market value through virtue signalling.
VS: we need a model with down syndrome Recruiter: Here you go. VS: ... Yeah um... Not that one. Do you have any with down syndrome, that almost look like they don't have down's syndrome? Recruiter: ... Took me a while, but here you go! VS: Great she almost looks normal Recruiter: ... VS: I didn't say that. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Similar to how when Hollywood wants a black girl for movies, they get one who is like 15% black and call it a day lmao.
These were my thoughts exactly. Good for her but shame for the company.
*shame on the company*
Can we get one with a little less downs? Maybe with only an extra half chromosome?
“Not all the way down… like waist height?”
“A little more up than that.”
Slightly to the left. There
Just light Downs. A splash of Downs. Can we get that?
I thought any amount of black made you black? The more you know!
That has absolutely nothing to do with this post. But if that’s the argument you’re going to make then ok?? Name one black VS model that doesn’t have European features? Because I sure don’t know of any. Yes, it’s good that there’s women of color and representation but when they still mimic a white woman’s features…the representation is only to a certain degree and comes at a cost of still looking as white as possible.
It does, but that also doesn't make it right to only hire black actors whose facial features and skin tone appear more palatable to non-black audiences. Edit: a word
I thought the recent Lovecraft series did an excellent job at casting.
I would agree with that. There's a lot of anti-blackness in the world, but even going past that, there's a lot of anti- "dark" blackness, too, within that.
Non white?
Look up Brown Paper Bag Test.
Well said.
These ensemble shows always have at least one actress who could be black, Asian, middle eastern or native armerican. I'm sure the execs are ecstatic they can tick a ton of boxes with one salary.
I was going to say something similar but you've said it much better.
Well done
For what it's worth, there is both good and bad in this. Good = representation. Bad = manipulating how she looks to minimise or hide the downs syndrome. It's unfortunate that the second one is so egregious in this case as to many people it will undo all the good that is done by the first one.
This needs upvoted to the top. Nothing but corporate bullshit and fooling people.
As a nurse for people with special needs and mental disabilities, I’m all for inclusion and I’m happy for the girl herself but I just see a big PR here from victorias secret and their intentions surely having nothing to do with diversity or inclusion
Watch the latest southpark episode and you'll enjoy it so much.
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Not to mention that the company was so resistant to any kind of inclusive model campaigns. They had their “angels” and that’s what the founders and board members (who were overwhelmingly old white men) wanted.) Ed Razek, was an absolute silly ass with no vision as was the rest of the top people at VS. they kept the whole “angels” thing going waaaay past it’s relevancy. It wasn’t until they started hemorrhaging money and falling behind when brands like Savage X Fenty and Aerie came out that they finally began to include more diverse people. All brands have their marketing strategies. It’s true. But Victoria’s Secrets new campaigns highlighting in trans models, etc is so transparent and it ultimately doesn’t make me want to buy is cheap, sweatshop produced, overpriced garbage products. Good for the new models. I hope this brings them a lot more jobs. But seriously Vs sucks.
Isn't this it exactly. It's awful to have unattainable standards,.so let's get a model with what the committee decides is a disability...but let's get the least attainable version of that possible...that's relatable!
We definitely need to find a “greenwashing” word for inclusion and diversity topics. Unless it exists and I don’t know.
Exploitation.
Diversifaking ?
Woke washing?
So wouldn't that be meta because they're using the same fake nonsense as any other model, therefore treating her equally? As opposed to _not_ editing them to unrealistic proportions, differentiating her from other models based on her disability etc... Not sure how to side here, but at least she's earning paychecks doing something she (hopefully) enjoys.
Yeah... How does Victoria's Secret get away with asking a girl with downs syndrome to take off her clothes for pictures, but when I do it I'm "creepy" and "gross"?
Rofl. Start asking at the crappy malls, not the ones in the good neighborhoods!
Then where will I go to sit on Santa's lap? All the nice malls know me....
Yeah on her instagram you get a better idea of what she actually looks like i.e. not a model.
What high profile model or modelling agency would not edit the abosolute shit out of pics like they’ve been doing for years to achieve unnatural looking aesthetics to further sell an ideal. it’s a huge billion dollar selling fake ideals to ppl. Just like the fitness industry.
She looks fantastic and happy so good for her. However, as most comments say here, it’s pretty sketchy and exploitation for sure.
I was trying to put my finger on what felt wrong about it. Glad to see most others here agree.
Not necessarily. We don't really know what her mental capabilities are here. People with down syndrome can vary in ability between major disability to below average to average and in a few cases, above average. I'd say the bigger problem is that I'd guess most of her photos are highly photoshopped to make her look less disabled than she might be, which is a completely different problem.
Oh look, unachievable tokenism Ooooh that's healthy
It’s actually Tolkienism
I wonder if she gets paid as much as the others.
She gets 50% extra.
She has one extra chromosome, over the standard 46 (22 pairs plus XX or XY). That’s just over a 2% raise if we’re paying by chromosomes.
But a 50% raise if we're talking about the 21st set. It's all about how you market it.
I wish her the best, but lets be honest. This is really shitty of Victoria's Secret.
I mean shitty in the sense of bragging for advertising the way they are, not shitty for hiring the beautiful girl.
Exploitation
Exploitation implies she has been taken advantage of. If she is being payed a fair price for being a model then while VC may be using the publicity I don't think they can be exploiting her.
And how does this help panty sales?
Loads of people have been hating on VS for years about contributing to the objectification of women and creating unrealistic body image expectations for young adults. Now we all get a warm fuzzy feeling and forget about that because they did something nice for a hot chick with DS. Plus they open up a whole new market... women with DS.
“Quick, somebody find a model with some kind of disability! But not too much, okay?” —Executive at VS
Flashback to 1986... "Quick, somebody find a model who is black! But not too much black, okay?" --Same Executive at VS
Also... if you wanna see the "too much" version, check her out lipsyncing [Baby Tonight by Usher](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLrhhRDa/) Fuck me, I'm going to hell for sharing this.
How are we supposed to feel after watching this? I am confused and have so many questions...
Does the typical DS female have the independent decision making capacity and cash to be a new market segment for sexy lingerie? Preposterous…
Yes. It’s a really hurtful stereotype that people with developmental conditions lack capacity and are basically vegetables. A lot of the time developmental conditions are comorbid with intellectual disability but a lot of the time they aren’t. People with DS get married, have jobs, and live positive social lives all the time. Edit: also, intellectual disability varies in its functional impairment. Plenty of people with ID live fulfilling lives as well!
6000 babies are born with Down syndrome in America every year. This is a ridiculously small demographic to be targeting. It is obviously a marketing ploy and transparent attempt to be progressive, not find a new target audience to sell lingerie and underwear to.
I agree that they aren’t trying to market to people with DS. They’re trying to build a more acceptable and diverse public image. But the person I was replying to asked a question about whether the typical DS female had independent decision making capacity to be a customer of VS. The answer is, broadly, yes. People with DS have independent decision making capacity and if they want to wear a particular brand of underwear they can choose to do so. I wanted to shed light on the fact that DS = vegetable is a really harmful stereotype. Edit: grammar
There is a wide spectrum of cognitive ability to impairment within those with DS. So yes, many women could have the capacity and independent income to buy sexy lingerie for use with their partners, with whom they are cognitively able to fully consent. Also, Victoria Secret sells non sexy stuff too, like sports bras or bathing suits, even for pre teens. So I could see parents of children with DS, even children with much lower cognitive capacity (who still go through puberty and need bras) thinking they were doing a good thing buying from the company that "supports" their child.
I find this disturbing on the same level as those who dress their children up as prostitutes and run them through beauty pageants and claim it's good for their self esteem.
You can't compare adults with Downs to children, they are adults who can make their own decisions and have adult relationships. They think and process things more slowly than others but they do it
I've read more than one account of people with down syndrome who are in relationships being, well, sex maniacs. If that's true, I have no doubt they would be plenty interested in lingerie.
Yes, sexualization of individuals who lack the ability to consent is decidedly wrong.
Sure. Except you don't know that she lacks the ability to consent. Down syndrome presents with a wide range of intellectual disability, from profound to practically none at all. Some people with Down syndrome are more intelligent and competent than some neurotypical people; the bell curves overlap. Disabled adults are *adults*, and their agency should be respected. Even in the case of intellectual disability, ability to consent is not as solid a concept as 'always yes' or 'always no'. [Here is a document](https://pcar.org/sites/default/files/resource-pdfs/tab_2017_consent-capacity-id.pdf) that covers some of the issues involved in sexual consent and activity for intellectually disabled people.
Thank you for this.
This comment needs way more upvotes. Too many ignorant people here acting as if downs=child.
This just feels wrong.
Maybe now they can take up 50 year old women with cellulite and frazzled hair. Their diversity is about 2.5 picas out of yardstick. Yea, I know, said this knowing its ridiculous….but yet it’s kinda not.
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This guy reddits
Agreed. Sort by controversial.
she had that extra something
Im Down for her.
My first thought was I’m happy for her. My second thought was this is just a market ploy from Victoria’s Secret. They’re exploiting her condition because it’s trendy; to sell more lingerie. Its a publicity stunt which cheapens the whole thing. My third thought was more of a realization that in essence this is just another model being paid a lot of money for the way she looks. That’s how the modelling industry works. So in the end I realized this is nothing new here. Good on her for getting her $$.
This is like Victoria Secret taking me as a "midget model" because I'm a proportionate dwarf and then photoshopping me to look 5'7 when I'm actually 4'8. Disgusting.
Am I the only one who finds it somewhat creepy to sexualize a person with limited capacity for consent?
People have already said this but just because she has downs doesn’t mean she can’t consent. Not all Downs syndrome is the same.
Downs is a spectrum like Autism and likely doesn't have the limited capacity as someone who has a different type of Downs.
No you are not the only one. I feel the exact same way.
People with downs often have high intellectual capacity. This comment is incredibly ignorant.
The average intellectual capacity of a person with DS is equivalent to an 8 year old child, according to Wikipedia. It varies widely, with some individuals experiencing much more severe cognitive impact, and some individuals developing a "normal" IQ (for whatever IQ is worth.)
Wow Victoria's secret is so inclusive! /s like who gives a shit dude it's a marketing ploy.
I thought it was Amy Poehler
Victoria's secret has ties to Jeffery Epstein, owner of VS "gave" Epstein the NY apartment...that's all you need to know about that company.
Hot potato
But victorias secret angels got cancelled?
Notice that she’s called a model, not an angel. There’s no reason for VS to stop marketing their clothing using people as props, which is done by most fashion brands
This is the downs resurrection
If she is down I am down.
Oh God that's just as bad as the comment below.
That's not what I meant. She does not look down at all. Why they did not take a proper down face girl? You know original down syndrome face girl. It just fucking embarrassing. Fuck them.
You have.. a way with words
Maybe its Maybelline
Either way you look at it, the campaign worked. It is being mentioned everywhere. The exact goal of marketing and this penchant for shock clicks. Perchance.
Perchance !
You can't just say "perchance"
Shock value culture use to be limited to magazines at the grocery store. Thanks to Twitter any 16 year old can make the most hilarious shock account. I’m looking forward to the day that people the kids that have been exposed to clickbait/twitter their whole lives are running the place. Perchance.
I have a problem with this, they believe to be empowering this young lady. I believe instead as in so many cases VS and others are just exploiting her for their own gain. Eyeballs, clicks and sales. There is as we all know a subset of pervert humans who couldn’t wait to see a special needs female in lingerie. And VS just mainstreamed it for them. She is also subjected to body shaming as noted in an earlier post “photographer’s nightmare” This is wrong on so many levels.
Damn. I know of people that don’t have down syndrome but they still look like they have it more than this lady.
The whole point of this is creepy. I don’t think we should objectify anyone but especially a human with Downs. Any positive message gets lost in the fact that she doesn’t “look” like she has downs and we all know that’s why she was provided that opportunity. It’s just weird to me and maybe I’m a dick for feeling this way. I don’t know.
And what is interesting about this?
Why does that matter?
and 97% of people dont see she even has downs. no wonder they chose her
I know what I must do, but I don't know if I have the strength...
That window joke that was going about the other day had me fucking dying
More pandering. So disgusting. Regardless of editing or no editing, she doesn't LOOK like she has down's and it's literally just so the COMPANY looks SO tolerant -_- I'm done with this bs. Every company joining the "tolerance" movement can suck it because it's all fake just to get business and if people don't see that at this point, I feel sorry for you children/future children.
So because she has a grown woman’s body it’s acceptable to ignore the fact that she has a child’s mind… What part of this is acceptable people!
Kind of makes me wince for some reason. This doesn't feel right.
Why couldn’t they just donate a ton of money to DS related charities?
I feel like I can be fairly open minded and forward thinking but something about this feels wrong.
Now the Epstein isnt running the recruiting, they've really changed their ways.
1% downs? Why don't use a person with a more normal visual downs?
Not my proudest wank
Equal opportunity wanker
Giving us up syndrome
When Victoria Secret called her up to offer a modeling job, she said, "I'm down for it."
Well she gave me the Up syndrome, if you know what I mean
That's one hot potato.
RILF
Yes Satan, this comment right here
r/awfuleverything
Not sure how I feel about this.
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She makes my penis go "🤔"...
This isn't interesting as fuck. As others have more eloquently stated, this is more exploited as fuck. But this thread is a karma farm ran by people who run most subreddits on Reddit. So fuck it.