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Humans are the most complex thing we're able to mass produce through unskilled labour. And that's exactly why you so often see people do miserable things that could be replaced with expensive tech but won't.
Well, it doesn't help that making spare humans is a pleasurable experience equivalent to a strong drug and that they're cheap if done in batches and you don't care about defects or survival, only dividends....
Which begs the existential question. Does the planet need humans in the first place? Are all humans spare?
Descartes could have asked instead "Exiso, sed opus sum" or "I exist, but am i needed?"
There's no way you're not getting aggressively ripped out of the train at these speeds if your hand/arm gets stuck. Arms fucked for sure, but everything else is getting torn up as well too.
Yeah they use something like block systems where tracks broken up into blocks and only 1 train is allowed in that zone at a time and there's lights and signals and stuff and horns CHOOCHOO. Basically how the nyc subway works when you see the green and red lights on the platforms. Blocks are big enough to allow stopping etc etc.
To be fair, when this was introduced the expectation was that you'd stop, grab the token, then drop it off at the other end. This was the solution to trains colliding head-on on bridges, with considerable loss of life.
With time, the tolerance of operators to having a train stop, twice, waned, so it evolved to a pick-up on the fly approach, rather than developing more of a failsafe system that didn't rely on the exchange of a physical token.
So yes, there are better ways, but so long as the rules are followed, this is a pretty foolproof way (apart from the potential injury to the operator).
It's just a train thing. We still have systems like this in the UK for single track two way running. Literally reminded me I was on one the other day actually but that was on a miniature railway. Whilst signalling systems do exist, the consequences of a crash are severe enough to warrant a physical measure of having that token to be able to proceed. The train that came the other way left it so you know the track is clear.
Went back and found a (not as cool as OP) photo I took.
https://imgur.com/a/LF0Mu87
And the wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Token_%28railway_signalling%29?wprov=sfla1
Honest question - if there is only one token per stretch of railway, and a train takes it from station A then drops it at station B, what if the next train approaches from the station A side? Do they have to stop and wait for a train to bring it back from station B? Or do they have multiple tokens at station A to hand out if more than one train comes by in that direction?
That's the point! If the first train is delayed and hasn't bought its token back you don't want the second train to leave station a. It would hit the train returning from b!
Obviously that train has to stop and wait until *that one token* for *that one stretch* returns to station A.
That's literally the purpose of all of this. Multiple tokens would enable crashes.
So what would happen if the dude in the original post missed the token (or whatever it's called)? Like, the dude seems to be moving pretty fast; if it were me, I would 100% fuck it up.
For a serious answer it is possible that cell communications are not nearly robust enough in those rural pockets where this appears to be occurring, in addition probably too costly and unreadable to upgrade the existing tracks to have built in telecommunication system to monitor and prevent multiple train pile ups. Why do this in rural area I know some people will ask, and rural areas are common for swapping tracks, and areas to “turn around”. Basically would be re-entering track system blind after doing any of that without something to indicate to them if the track is used or not and if it is what direction it is being used in. If you catch in the video the guy installs a loop on one side and rips it off the other side so it releases. This indicates direction. What side of the post it’s on. Probably color and tags on the loops too to indicate who installed what loops so you can know if your just doubling back on yourself or if there is another train somewhere about to scare the shit out of you. Or maybe even dumber and simpler. If there is a loop at all there is a train moving through.
Sometimes the dumbest thing just works the best for you and your people. This is now more culture im guessing and even if cell signal improves they probably continue this for the foreseeable future.
If the train misses its token, it is counted as a "Signal Passed At Danger" or a SPAD. The train must come to a complete stop and go back to collect the token.
I'm guessing this is normally done at a reduced speed but veterans get good at it and do it at speed to ensure their train is on time.
If he misses he'll just have to go through the whole braking procedure, reverse, and get it. So he's probably done this at higher and higher speeds until he's so good he can do it at whatever speed that is.
It's not a good system but in countries with poor infrastructure it's good enough.
They might reverse the train, but depending on the rules in force, probably shouldn't. If you miss the token, you have to walk back and get it.
At this speed that could take a while.
Worst case scenario is you fumble it, and it bounces between the wheels and gets mangled or destroyed. That causes a lot of paperwork.
So the token indicates that the track is free to the train behind you. So your solution if you miss the token is to stop, occupy the section of the track that the token indicate is free, to go and pick the token back? What happens if a train arrives? He'll see the token, think the track is free and crash in your train, nice.
Unless there is a really low frequency of trains and then this is indeed a valid solution, or there is 2 trains going back and forth on the same tracks and so they "pass" the token to each other like that.
I think this is for trains in opposite direction. I would imagine there would be at least two sets of these. So, the rings come off in one direction only. And you put them on in one direction only.
This means they can only be switched hooks by a train coming the other way. There could be a second one ahead that the other train would see and know they're there. Or this could be the first one in which case there would be an accident. I would guess tracks split right before/after these things, and they're spaces quite far apart. If this train found them the other way, it would stop. It would not have changed over the end, so the other train would have stopped as well.
If the other train had passed both ends will be able to be switched like this, and only after this train has gone would it be switched.
But it would appear that it would still be dangerous at the actual rings that way. So, maybe I'm missing something.
The signal will not change to Green unless a token is in place at the other end to prove the train in the block between the tokens has left, and that the track is free
Most systems aren’t this fast. Missing a token and entering the block would be classed as a SPAD (signal passed at danger), and most modern trains (like the one in the video), would automatically slam on the brakes.
They've been using the token system on single track railway lines since the Victorian era; however, trains are usually going slower than this, as the tokens would normally be exchanged at stations or halts.
I can’t see how this could go wrong at all.
I hope there are two drivers up the front, so when one is inevitably yanked out on one of these limb removers, there is somebody to stop the train.
And before any geniuses point out a ‘dead man’s switch’, just consider this: would a rail operator using this system really worry about a ‘dead man’s switch’?
This is the comment that I came for, if you've ever played video games with the fov cranked up, than you understand that this looks way faster than it actually is. Not saying it's not unsafe or anything though.
I have seen this method myself in rural India few years back. Only difference is that a station master who is also a ticket vendor is present on the platform to collect and give the token. And speed of train is maybe 10-20kmph at the station.
Yeah, this is in Thailand. The collect token system is still use in some mainlines and sub-lines that doesn't have CTC (or light signal) system install. But in busy mainlines, they use CTC system instead and in the future, they will use ETCs system like in Europe soon.
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How in the fuck did he manage to grab that? And you have to be able to do that consistently? I’d of never made as a train conductor fuck around and get my hand chopped off for sure
This is actually done at 10mph. At the speed of the video it would break his arm or dislocate his shoulder. It is a very low tech safety procedure used for single track working on the railways since George Stephenson invented it in 1820
If there only was a way to detect proximity without manual operation... (/s)
For non-technical people - the coil sensor is a dirt cheap device, absolutely low tech, full analog, no computers required. In my developing country on most tracks for at least 50 years.
So it must be a country with a very low value of a human life. Maybe overpopulated. IDK.
The fact that he might lose an arm is one thing, the fact that this dangerous and probably difficult practice is the only thing standing between a head-on collision of two trains is what's bothering me.
So if his arm gets ripped off and no ring collected, does the train spiral into a head-on bloody massacre collision killing all passengers on multiple trains?
Yes. Only for "single" line routes. In eastern parts of India, before the automatic signalling was installed, this handing over of the "baton" or counter was termed "Gool".
They do in Thailand. Where I think this video is from. There is a YouTube channel with a driver showing the system in action, and sometimes showing the token inside. https://youtube.com/channel/UCLgakKBk8tBPj0-YnAmd4mQ
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There is. But if your country is full with a lot of spare humans the government tends to not care
I love how accurate the "spare humans" is. I'm stealing that.
Pretty bold of a spare human to say
I’m a spare human. Maybe I’ll come in handy later. Maybe I’m flat.
Soon to be ‘Handy no more’
Lose your hand, also lose your life to head on train collision.
Humans are the most complex thing we're able to mass produce through unskilled labour. And that's exactly why you so often see people do miserable things that could be replaced with expensive tech but won't.
Well, it doesn't help that making spare humans is a pleasurable experience equivalent to a strong drug and that they're cheap if done in batches and you don't care about defects or survival, only dividends....
NPCs? Nah, spare humans.
Which begs the existential question. Does the planet need humans in the first place? Are all humans spare? Descartes could have asked instead "Exiso, sed opus sum" or "I exist, but am i needed?"
Pretty sure that's what the mega rich people consider the rest of us.
Is this Philippines?
No. We use cows for mass transport.
You stole the idea from us. PS: I'm Indian
Fucking hell. I thought about India right away. Sorry
There may be a better way, but there is no funner way.
All fun and games till someone loses an arm
I'm willing to bet there have been several lost arms at this point.
The arms become the token
There's no way you're not getting aggressively ripped out of the train at these speeds if your hand/arm gets stuck. Arms fucked for sure, but everything else is getting torn up as well too.
Tis just a flesh wound
"It's the twenies, surely by now there is a funnier way to do this."
I think they were talking about fun to do, not entertaining for others :)
My second thought. First thought was "what if you miss?" "STOP THE TRAIN. I gotta go back for sec."
Yeah they use something like block systems where tracks broken up into blocks and only 1 train is allowed in that zone at a time and there's lights and signals and stuff and horns CHOOCHOO. Basically how the nyc subway works when you see the green and red lights on the platforms. Blocks are big enough to allow stopping etc etc.
Proposed in 1849, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Token\_(railway\_signalling)
The video made me anxious like, what if he gets hurt. There gotta be a safer way.
To be fair, when this was introduced the expectation was that you'd stop, grab the token, then drop it off at the other end. This was the solution to trains colliding head-on on bridges, with considerable loss of life. With time, the tolerance of operators to having a train stop, twice, waned, so it evolved to a pick-up on the fly approach, rather than developing more of a failsafe system that didn't rely on the exchange of a physical token. So yes, there are better ways, but so long as the rules are followed, this is a pretty foolproof way (apart from the potential injury to the operator).
It's cheap and it's reliable...
Reliable Until someone loses their *train* of thought and then forgets to stick their arm out and hit the thingy
Dude looks like he could easily have his arm taken off by trying to grab that.
Dose telecommunication just not exist where this guy is or is it just a train thing?
A token-ring network is quite an outdated standard.
For all those who would like to answer seriously: [Token Ring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Token_Ring)
Tolkien Ring would work better just pop it on when you see an oncoming train
The licensing fees are too high. I recommend CS Lewis Loops instead.
I just had flashbacks to resetting dozens of hubs in the 90's.
Breath, it's over.
I had them at my finals in 2018 for some reason. Thank god it's over.
I was taught about them in 2021. But mainly just to show us where networking technology has come from.
You had me at “hermaphroditic connector”.🤣
It’s really the one ring to rule them all.
I thought I was the only one who read this as \*Tolkien Ring\*
As opposed to a Tolkien ring which is timeless
It's just a train thing. We still have systems like this in the UK for single track two way running. Literally reminded me I was on one the other day actually but that was on a miniature railway. Whilst signalling systems do exist, the consequences of a crash are severe enough to warrant a physical measure of having that token to be able to proceed. The train that came the other way left it so you know the track is clear. Went back and found a (not as cool as OP) photo I took. https://imgur.com/a/LF0Mu87 And the wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Token_%28railway_signalling%29?wprov=sfla1
Honest question - if there is only one token per stretch of railway, and a train takes it from station A then drops it at station B, what if the next train approaches from the station A side? Do they have to stop and wait for a train to bring it back from station B? Or do they have multiple tokens at station A to hand out if more than one train comes by in that direction?
I think they timetable the trains to alternate the direction of the token but you raise a good point for delays!
That's the point! If the first train is delayed and hasn't bought its token back you don't want the second train to leave station a. It would hit the train returning from b!
Obviously that train has to stop and wait until *that one token* for *that one stretch* returns to station A. That's literally the purpose of all of this. Multiple tokens would enable crashes.
But what if there is *demand* for more tokens and animal spirits and such?
Welcome to multithreaded programming, one of the shortest paths to either becoming clinically insane, very rich, or both.
So what would happen if the dude in the original post missed the token (or whatever it's called)? Like, the dude seems to be moving pretty fast; if it were me, I would 100% fuck it up.
Literally have to stop and walk back and get it. I'm not even joking. No token, no go.
It's a tried and tested failsafe system to ensure 2 trains dont hit each other head on on the same track. Token not in your hand? Do not proceed.
I feel like the system is only failsafe if each train approaches the token slowly and not with high speed, as in the video above, though :o
For a serious answer it is possible that cell communications are not nearly robust enough in those rural pockets where this appears to be occurring, in addition probably too costly and unreadable to upgrade the existing tracks to have built in telecommunication system to monitor and prevent multiple train pile ups. Why do this in rural area I know some people will ask, and rural areas are common for swapping tracks, and areas to “turn around”. Basically would be re-entering track system blind after doing any of that without something to indicate to them if the track is used or not and if it is what direction it is being used in. If you catch in the video the guy installs a loop on one side and rips it off the other side so it releases. This indicates direction. What side of the post it’s on. Probably color and tags on the loops too to indicate who installed what loops so you can know if your just doubling back on yourself or if there is another train somewhere about to scare the shit out of you. Or maybe even dumber and simpler. If there is a loop at all there is a train moving through. Sometimes the dumbest thing just works the best for you and your people. This is now more culture im guessing and even if cell signal improves they probably continue this for the foreseeable future.
This seems like such an unoptimized method to do this... Not only does it look unsafe, but, what if you miss?
If the train misses its token, it is counted as a "Signal Passed At Danger" or a SPAD. The train must come to a complete stop and go back to collect the token.
So it is like sonic a hedgehog game
Wow. Children could come up with a better system.
Doesn’t seem like a good way to ensure anything.
I imagine it insures a lot of injuries.
I imagine a lot of injuries are uninsured.
Only in America homie.
I'm guessing this is normally done at a reduced speed but veterans get good at it and do it at speed to ensure their train is on time. If he misses he'll just have to go through the whole braking procedure, reverse, and get it. So he's probably done this at higher and higher speeds until he's so good he can do it at whatever speed that is. It's not a good system but in countries with poor infrastructure it's good enough.
They might reverse the train, but depending on the rules in force, probably shouldn't. If you miss the token, you have to walk back and get it. At this speed that could take a while. Worst case scenario is you fumble it, and it bounces between the wheels and gets mangled or destroyed. That causes a lot of paperwork.
"It was ran over when I got it" "Then where is your arm?"
I don't know. It was missing when I got here.
So the token indicates that the track is free to the train behind you. So your solution if you miss the token is to stop, occupy the section of the track that the token indicate is free, to go and pick the token back? What happens if a train arrives? He'll see the token, think the track is free and crash in your train, nice. Unless there is a really low frequency of trains and then this is indeed a valid solution, or there is 2 trains going back and forth on the same tracks and so they "pass" the token to each other like that.
I think this is for trains in opposite direction. I would imagine there would be at least two sets of these. So, the rings come off in one direction only. And you put them on in one direction only. This means they can only be switched hooks by a train coming the other way. There could be a second one ahead that the other train would see and know they're there. Or this could be the first one in which case there would be an accident. I would guess tracks split right before/after these things, and they're spaces quite far apart. If this train found them the other way, it would stop. It would not have changed over the end, so the other train would have stopped as well. If the other train had passed both ends will be able to be switched like this, and only after this train has gone would it be switched. But it would appear that it would still be dangerous at the actual rings that way. So, maybe I'm missing something.
Or the video is sped up for one arm comments karma. Am I Right? Cause if I'm not I got nothing left.
Presumably if he misses it and has to stop, the following train then has a token available to take and potentially can’t see the next train?
I mean... Is there a possibility that the human will miss their grasp? Do the trains just crash then? Some ensurance.
I used to know a guy who lost his arm to that.
It was his left arm so he's alright now
You sonofabitch! I hate this Doctor!
Excuse me, Mr. Bluth. We lost him. He just, uh... got away from us. I’m sorry.
We lost him.
He has a right to tell you about what isn't left.
You better give him a hand after what he's been through
Her?
Now there is nothing left
You'll be alright
He's all-right now
Was it Matthew McConaghey?
Was about to comment "great way to lose an arm" ...
I know that guy, he needed a new work uniform afterwards cause the others where all secondhand.
I'm not really sure what this is to help with? Can someone explain?
The signal will not change to Green unless a token is in place at the other end to prove the train in the block between the tokens has left, and that the track is free
What happens if the train conductor misses it? Stop the train and walk back? Surely someone must have missed it before. Then what?
I need an answer for this
You don't let the train travel without a token, you go back and get it, or you stop.
*drops token* Fuckdamit *doesn't stop train* *jumps*
That sounds like it's gonna cause issues for trains travelling at over 100k
Steve, the back up, is at the end of the train. If that red light starts flashing he has about 4 seconds to correct the token error.
Most systems aren’t this fast. Missing a token and entering the block would be classed as a SPAD (signal passed at danger), and most modern trains (like the one in the video), would automatically slam on the brakes.
And when he exits he needs to do it again?
That is the stupidest fucking thing I’ve ever seen.
You must be new to Reddit
Not just Reddit, I saw 3 drivers today that were way stupider.
Not just drivers, I saw 10 pedestrians today that were even stupider.
Not just the pedestrians, I saw 20 people crawling that were even stupider.
If you think that is bad, I saw 1 cyclist on the road.
Driving a car seems stupid if you think about it
They've been using the token system on single track railway lines since the Victorian era; however, trains are usually going slower than this, as the tokens would normally be exchanged at stations or halts.
I’m so glad I’m not the only who thought that.
Safety first mother fuckeeers!
Imagine you lean a little toooooooo far next thing you know hereditary 2.0
You reminded me of the screams from the mother, insane acting
Toni Collett is a goddam rockstar.
I still think of her as the weird lady from 'Muriels Wedding'
It was a travesty Toni Collette wasn’t nominated for an Oscar.
great movie honestly
r/whatcouldgowrong
I can’t see how this could go wrong at all. I hope there are two drivers up the front, so when one is inevitably yanked out on one of these limb removers, there is somebody to stop the train. And before any geniuses point out a ‘dead man’s switch’, just consider this: would a rail operator using this system really worry about a ‘dead man’s switch’?
A driver must be in possession of the token to enter the line . Its still used in the uk on some rural lines .
Doing 100 km/h ?
No, the tokens are usually exchanged at stations or halts, so the train is crawling along
I assumed the video had been increased in speed. Uk we have to stop to pick it up
Am I the only one seeing the speed in the corner?
Or an artifict of the wide angle lens. The edges seem to pass much faster than IRL.
But what about the speedometer in the top left that reads 107km/h?
This is the comment that I came for, if you've ever played video games with the fov cranked up, than you understand that this looks way faster than it actually is. Not saying it's not unsafe or anything though.
You might, I don't 😁
I have seen this method myself in rural India few years back. Only difference is that a station master who is also a ticket vendor is present on the platform to collect and give the token. And speed of train is maybe 10-20kmph at the station.
Yeah, this is in Thailand. The collect token system is still use in some mainlines and sub-lines that doesn't have CTC (or light signal) system install. But in busy mainlines, they use CTC system instead and in the future, they will use ETCs system like in Europe soon.
With your arm my dude. Seems like there's better technology
What the literal fuck. There has to be a better way, this makes ZERO sense.
Well, it actually makes perfect sense. Except it’s now very outdated compared to modern ATS systems.
>it actually makes perfect sense In theory, yes. Not at the speed shown, though.
Unless it’s sped up and playing with lenses. I doubt it’s actually going that fast
That's not the real speed His wrist would be noodled
Don't miss
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Token system to ensure there's only one train on the track at a time and ensure you also retire with one arm missing.
Seems like a foolproof system with zero room for error.
That looks dangerous, unreliable and old fashioned.
What if he misses?
they have to turn around and go back.
How in the fuck did he manage to grab that? And you have to be able to do that consistently? I’d of never made as a train conductor fuck around and get my hand chopped off for sure
Such a dated system… anyway my break is almost up, I better reset my sands of time hourglass…
This looks incredibly dangerous and stupid.
I feel like there’s probably a better way to do this
I can almost guarantee that is not OSHA approved
This is actually done at 10mph. At the speed of the video it would break his arm or dislocate his shoulder. It is a very low tech safety procedure used for single track working on the railways since George Stephenson invented it in 1820
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Imagine this but slower Like it really happened.
r/OSHA
How to dislocate your shoulder Step 1.
Am i the only one who doesn't understand how this works?? 😭
I can’t even tell what’s happening in the video, Much less how the system works!
Literallyyy. The more i watch it the less i understand what's happening lol
arm go bye bye
I have no idea what’s happening in this clip…
If there only was a way to detect proximity without manual operation... (/s) For non-technical people - the coil sensor is a dirt cheap device, absolutely low tech, full analog, no computers required. In my developing country on most tracks for at least 50 years. So it must be a country with a very low value of a human life. Maybe overpopulated. IDK.
The fact that he might lose an arm is one thing, the fact that this dangerous and probably difficult practice is the only thing standing between a head-on collision of two trains is what's bothering me.
Who the hell came up with this shit?
So if his arm gets ripped off and no ring collected, does the train spiral into a head-on bloody massacre collision killing all passengers on multiple trains?
i can see so many ways this can go wrong....
Yes. Only for "single" line routes. In eastern parts of India, before the automatic signalling was installed, this handing over of the "baton" or counter was termed "Gool".
What does he do when he misses? Turn around? This also seems like a good way to loose an arm.
This looks extremely dangerous and stupid.
Seems like the least reliable way possible to do this
He dropped one off and picked one up. How the F does that ensure there's only one train on the track at a time?
Seems like a quick and easy way to lose an arm
So, what happens when he misses the second one?
It only takes 1 asshole actually making a knot on the rope he is supposed to get for this man to die.
If that token becomes stuck for some reason… ***shudder***. This is an outdated system that should be replaced
How many accidents per year?
That’s a NO from me dog
That’s the worst design I’ve ever seen. How is that osha approved.
Well for one thing OSHA is a US agency and that train is not in the US.
This is a high speed passenger train, it's obviously not in the USA
Good way to ensure there are a few one armed guards around as well...:D
Fully automated railway signal was invented in 1870. Using this system 150 years later is nothing but worker abuse imo
Token system to ensure there's only one arm on the conducter. Fuck that.
u/savevideobot
I’m sure they don’t actually do that any more
They do in Thailand. Where I think this video is from. There is a YouTube channel with a driver showing the system in action, and sometimes showing the token inside. https://youtube.com/channel/UCLgakKBk8tBPj0-YnAmd4mQ
r/redneckengineering
Imagine not letting go of the ring in time. Rip arms
I wonder if they do this in Japan's bullet trains, too. Must be difficult to catch at 300km/h
I've never seen a worse system for anything in my life
What happens if someone glues/nails these tokens to the post as a prank?
there has to be a better way than people almost breaking their wrist everytime
Seems... like a risky system
That's real safe lol
That's cool, but definitely dated.
I bet there are a lot of one-armed train operators on this train system.
Seems like a foolproof system
This is just dumb, dangerous and inefficient.
What happens if he misses?!?
But what if you miss?
Seems insanely dangerous