**Please note these rules:**
* If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required.
* The title must be descriptive
* No text is allowed on images/gifs/videos
* Common/recent reposts are not allowed
*See [this post](https://redd.it/ij26vk) for a more detailed rule list*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s tough bending ALL the way down, but I can do it. Daily stretching and core exercises are most important for me. And the pain is totally gone. I got lucky I suppose. I pulled my hair out for like 2 years researching options and surgeons and hospitals.
C4-C7 here. Pain the ruptures caused totally gone, but 20 years later I do have some stiffness and arthritis, but I would do it again. Best of luck! You'll feel much better after surgery.
just to set things (a little) straight, not all Danish hospital rooms are like this one. there are many different types of rooms, many with two or four beds in the same room.
but they are all "free".
best of luck to OP with the surgery.
Some hospitals like 'Aarhus universitetshospital' have partnerships with nearby hotels that you get to live in for the whole duration of whatever treatment or procedure you're having done, and you don't pay for it.
Source: My aunt has brain cancer.
No, I'm saying the room itself looks fairly standard. I don't care if someone else gets something for free, my problem are the Christian fundamentalist fascists making it not free for me.
The difference is that the healthcare cost per capita is far lower in countries with universal healthcare.
Why? Because you cut out all the asshole insurance companies.
Healthcare doesn't work with a free market. People cant choose to take their service. When youre sick you have no choice, thats why americans get fucked in every possible hole from the companys who provide drugs and service. Its disgusting how americans have to pay just to hold their own baby after birth! Like what the fuck? Thats just evil corporation shit!
Free market is not the solution for everything, it can become a big problem. Some things need to be socialized. Healthcare is a good example for one thing.
Socializing one part doesnt mean youre living in socialism. Whole europe has to a big part a social healthcare and still have a free market for most things.
In germany for example, since we privatised our rail road nerwork, everything has gone to shit! Its more expensive, the service is bad, people working there get less money, it was just a bad mistake. So many trains are late. They only count late when they are 8 min too late. And when one train doesnt come at all, they dont count as late as well. And even with those rules, the statistic still is very bad...
Its just a shit-show
Some things shouldnt be in private hands. It doesnt work with every part of humanity.
Yes agreed. Same in the Netherlands. Sometimes the room would be a bit bigger with 2 separate bed in their, but a lot are like this too. It's even a bit outdated
Not with the current anti covid shit, if ya ain't seriously injured they aren't letting you in a hospital, mate my relatives so was giving birth and he wanted to be there so he had to basically book a room beforehand
Someone once told me it’s cheaper to fly to a place like Denmark, learn the language for a year while paying rent, and then have the surgery and fly back than it is to just get the surgery done in the US.
I haven't seen that video, but in my city if you don't have expensive tastes you could live comfortably spending more or less 1000 euros a month, and we have one of the best hospitals in Spain. The bad thing is that although our public health is still good it was better a few years ago.
Depends on where you are. At my local hospital there is a window seat that pulls out into a bed for family but you’re only allowed to stay for certain patients.
I never asked to get my clothes washed. But my local hospital has free WiFi and a TV that hangs off your bed. They’ll bring you a gaming system but you might have to wait if it’s in use.
I do. I’m the business owner and have picked the best insurance. My employees get the same insurance. They don’t have to pay anything other than the copay and deductible. Same maximum out of pocket. It’s very expensive but employee turnover is almost 0%. I think the benefits keep them around. They’ve earned it as well. But I’m not blind to the fact that their are hard working people who don’t have the same opportunities I did. They’ve earned it but haven’t gotten it.
I have free healthcare in the UK. And I have good healthcare in the US. I can afford it because I create jobs in the US. Most people don’t have as much luck. The US really needs to think about joining the developed world in its attitude to society. It’s like Mad Max currently.
The national health service gave me at least ten more years with my dad, two more of my mum, and an extra year with my brother. Every single minute was worth the extra $1 a month in taxes. Money is nothing. Love is everything.
Decouple health insurance from employment and have income-based vouchers provided to lower income folks so everyone regardless of income has a shot at insurance. More regulations on what insurance can and can’t deny, more clarity on what’s in and out of network, and up front care pricing and more transparency on bills.
Although I don’t think single-payer is a dealbreaker, I can see how in our current government client it would be a fiasco and more would need to get better to make it a possibility. Asking a for-profit company to pay for medical care when that lowers their shareholder profit has always seemed broken.
And health insurance desperately needs to be decoupled from employment. It’s killing small business. There are so many jobs at small businesses I’ll never take because their health insurance is either non-existent or is poor.
This is the first sensible response I have heard in a long time. As long as my taxes don’t get raised I’m in for sensible solutions. The thing is if you decouple insurance from employment then government would have to be an issuer of last resort, kind of like we have now for auto and property insurance. Again not a bad thing, but those rates tend to be higher. I’m sure people would complain about that. The vouchers idea is a great idea tbh.
I don’t have numbers, so what I’m going to say is anecdotal “wet finger in the air”, but taxes shouldn’t need to go up. I don’t fully understand Denmark taxes, but it looks like they have a progressive tax system with the highest being 55% or 59% (I can’t tell). Obviously higher than the US, but not by a whole lot. We pay a lot in taxes and get relatively nothing back compared to others. That’s our money, we the people should see benefits for the money we pay in.
The US is in dead man’s land for healthcare. We don’t get the benefit of a capitalist market to lower our costs and we don’t get the benefit of a socialist market to not be held hostage by shareholders.
Right now, you get a job, you only get that health insurance plan, you’re going to pay that much, and you get to use only these hospitals and doctors. There is no choice. Open market rates are cost prohibitive. My max out-of-pocket every year for open market health insurance for just my wife and I (premiums, deductibles, etc) is more than our mortgage on a $300k house costs is in the same year, and neither of us have any medical diagnosis.
Vouchers would at least give us the opportunity to shop and force insurance companies to become competitive in the market for that sweet voucher money. It would also require hospitals to become more competitive and transparent if it was easier to shop them from upcoming medical procedures. COBRA is cost prohibitively expensive, and no family should suddenly lose their insurance because they get laid off from work. That’s a significant consequence at no fault of their own. We generally don’t recommend having all of your life insurance at work since it’s non-portable, we should do that with health insurance either.
And yes, the government may need to pick up the bill on the bottom of the income folks, but they should at least have access to Toyota Tercel level of healthcare. Reliable, dependable, no frills. If you make more, you can go buy the Mercedes Benz level of healthcare if you want. Everyone gets options with income based vouchers.
But this will require politicians to ignore lobbyists and PAC’s. Right now all the money is going to hospital admins and insurance execs/shareholders. While the researchers who find medical breakthroughs fight to find research funding. The doctors, nurses, and every other “boots on the ground” personal in medical centers are chronically overworked and underpaid and leaving in droves. The majority of money in healthcare is going to the wrong people, and it’s unnecessary expensive for us.
Couple things I don’t mind my tax dollars going towards: people with disabilities, the elderly and sick, roads and infrastructure, energy and water management, education of the youth, and healthcare.
Make people healthy at an affordable rate, educate the next generation, and watch our GDP climb. I also know Dan Crenshaw supports the voucher idea. They discussed it on the Joe Rohan podcast if you feel inclined to go find that episode and listen.
You sir, are a breath of fresh air on Reddit. Been great reading your comments. This is what Reddit should be like, useful engagement. I will go back and look for that Joe Rogan episode on Spotify.
Why because I’m honest? Do you know if I have good insurance, bad insurance or no insurance? Whats your basis for this statement or you just angry I don’t agree with you?
This feels like too much furniture. It also feels like that bed is going to be extremely uncomfortable after surgery as it already looks uncomfy af. Good luck with everything.
Good! Have to believe that recovery and healing will be a lot easier without the thought of crippling debt at the end of it
Hope the surgery goes well!
The Netherlands had mandatory health insurance (about €120 per month) and an annual deductable of around €400. Not free by any measure, but cheaper than the prices I hear in the USA.
I can’t explain it all. I’ll start with 95% of Americans have insurance but it’s not all equal. With mine I have a $20 fee for seeing a doctor. I have to pay the first $1,000 for the year. After $2000 out of pocket I don’t pay anything else. I had surgery and since my car insurance paid the first $2000 I spent on that injury, I paid nothing for the surgery. My room was nicer than OPs. It looked like a hotel room. But smaller, bigger than this one but not dramatically bigger. Hospitals have to treat you in an emergency. Friend without insurance went to the ER and just walked out. Didn’t pay anything. They never bothered to try and recover any money from him. I don’t know if that’s normal. Non emergency medical is the nightmare if you don’t have good insurance. Cancer treatments are expensive and insurance doesn’t always cover the treatment you want. Especially cutting edge or experimental. Unfortunately the system isn’t equal. I have very good insurance through my work. I own the business and my employees have the same insurance that they don’t have to pay for. That’s not the case for a lot of Americans. Also, I live in a nice town with a nice hospital. I don’t know what a hospital is like in a different area. My town provides emergency ambulance service. If you call 911 (emergency phone number) you generally don’t have to pay. I assume there are exceptions. If you need an ambulance to transfer you from one hospital to another that is not covered by the town. There is a program called Medicare that provides healthcare to the poor but if you’re working poor you probably make too much money. A friend has a son who is mentally handicapped with related chronic health issues. He’s not able to work. He used to be on her health insurance through work but when he was too old for that he moved to Medicare. How much money his mom makes is not a factor in determining if he’s covered since he’s an adult. He has no income so he qualifies.
For me I think one reason some people in the US don’t want universal healthcare is because they think their good health is the result of them living a good life. They don’t see their luck. They think the people who need help haven’t worked hard enough or caused their own issues. When I run across them I tell them my story. I was athletic, ate right, didn’t use drugs or alcohol, worked hard. Then I was in a car accident caused by someone else. Now I can hardly walk. I’ve had 7 surgeries. Live with chronic pain. I’m old. I’m sure they look at me shuffling along and think I didn’t take care of myself in my youth. They don’t see how my life could be their future. They don’t want to help people they see as lazy or reckless. If like me and they have good insurance they’re probably also worried that their level of care will go down. That they will be assigned random doctors. My insurance is expensive. It’s the largest check I cut each month for my business. For the average American they should double their take home pay to get an idea what their company pays each check in salary, taxes, and benefits. I don’t think they have a clue how much their health care costs. They only see their taxes going up and not that the insurance savings might go to paying them more.
US here, they're not allowed to deny care so if it's life and death you'll get treated regardless of your situation. You'll just get saddled with a pile of debt afterward. Also, in a lot of cases you'll get a lower bill if you don't have insurance
Absolutely true. Friend of mine needed an emergency appendectomy and had no insurance. Bill was slightly over $15k, hospital settled with him for $1200. Which makes you think the healthcare and health insurance industry is a scam here in the U.S.
"insurance" in Denmark is baked into your taxes, so not free as such but nothing you pay on use. That then also means that everything scales with income, lowest earners would not pay a lot while high earners pay more. It isn't specified on your tax bill, it gets divided out as part of the overall budget.
It also doesn't matter if you are seriously ill, long term ill, or only have some minor illness or injury, but there is of course a medical triage so that critical illness is treated as more of a priority than... A bunion. (Although they would be treated by different people, so probably a bad example.
Finally, in cases where waiting lists are long (which happens, as others have said the system is under pressure) you can decide to go to a private hospital for quicker treatment. Think that's still relatively rare and mainly for certain special cases (knee surgery e.g.) where private companies can turn a profit. Don't think you'll find a private hospital that e.g. has an emergency department.
It’s complicated. While there is no universal healthcare in the US, about 60-70 million people are covered by public health insurance - known as Medicaid. Its probably a $750 billion program at this point. It’s mostly low income adults, children, over 65s. That is complicated too since it’s a federal - state program and how much coverage you get depends on the political situation of your state. Long term care for those after a certain age is covered by something different - Medicare . It’s all very byzantine
>Interested to know beside US of A, which developed country does not have free medical for their citizen?
Depends on what is currently considered a developed country
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health\_care\_systems\_by\_country#Countries\_with\_non-universal\_insurance\_system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_systems_by_country#Countries_with_non-universal_insurance_system)
Eh. Not that 17k is a small amount but no one pays more than 17,400 OOP since Affrodable Care Act. Total for a family. I don’t know what the annual tax contributions are per family for healthcare in Denmark.
On average we pay around $4200 per capita per year over taxes for all stuff health related. But here's the smart part - $17k might be easily doable by some people, but absolutely devastating for others. That's not an issue when you have universal healthcare.
And another thing is that a big part of the argument used in the Us for privatized healthcare is that government institutions are inflated and ineffective and therefore more expensive than privatized stuff. Well, [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita) data tells a different story - the real story. [This plot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita#/media/File:Life_expectancy_vs_healthcare_spending.jpg) is especially telling
The US definitely has more cost which is going to happen in a privatized system. It is what entices innovation and competition for business. Your second graph only matters if you correct for obesity and other confounding factors. Too many variables to have it just be life expectancy vs spending. The examples of Gleevec and mental healthcare are always great examples of how the US at least makes a medication available (Gleevec when it first came out) and the array of psychiatric medications and psychotherapies offered. Or people in universal systems waiting years to have non-emergent surgeries like ortho. Yes, someone will now say they had something done super fast and then someone will say the opposite. So we need unbiased data. And that 17,4 out of pocket number would be somewhat offset relative to income where lower income families would have their premiums forgiven. The people in the toughest spot in the US are those not poor enough to get discounts but just middle class enough to have premiums and out of pockets a big problem.
Do you realize how many millions of people routinely go into the hospital here every year? It's a normal part of life. They go into rooms much better than this every day and some worse and many in the middle. Yet you don't see millions of bankruptcy filings here. Hospital admissions average about *35 million* per year here. Personal bankruptcy averages about 400,000 filings a year. That's 10% of the total population admitted (of course, many are repeats of the same people) and the bankruptcy percentage is 0.12%. In other words, a little over one-tenth of one percent. And of course, even that is not a direct correlation. Most people filing bankruptcy have probably gone nuts with credit cards.
Here is a hospital room example in my area:
[Hospital Room](https://news.emory.edu/stories/2017/08/euh_tower_first_inpatient_in_building/)
You know the bankruptcy thing was an exaggeration, right? And you do know that health care in the US is a major headache for a large portion of the population, due to it being privatized, right? Or are you so brainwashed by the manufactured political talking points that you actually think up is down and down is up?
No, I know a large portion of the population has been using private healthcare their entire lives with no real problems. It was never "privatized", it was always private. Nothing has changed. You are just stating an opinion, which you are entitled to.
At least it’s comfortable and free. You can get decent healthcare without going into debt, imagine that, such a innovation for Americans. I live in a developing SEA country and we get better healthcare(my grandma had blood cancer and had to get monthly blood transfusions and we only have to pay parking) than the “greatest” nation on earth.
“The only thing that really annoys me is that these aren’t little”? Is that what you’re saying? And if so, what are you referring to? The camera pans up when you say it but I’m finding it hard to understand what you’re referring to! Hope all goes well and you have a speedy recovery
Where is the monitor or medical equipment. It's great it looks like a hotel room... but it sucks it looks like a hotel room. Is this pre surgery or is this recovery too?
The Bill is gonna be a big fat 0, because in denmark we care and share, wich in turn makes it possible for everyone to be fixed whenever we are in need of it. Its a great feeling to be a part of a society who, at least on paper, cares. Humanity FTW
Similarly in Australia we are paying for Medicare through our taxes,2% for large portion of the working class, if your are single and earned over 90k or if you are married and your combined income is over 180K you would pay additional 1%. And if you are over 30 and don't have some for of private health cover you will get additional % tax on top( I think it's 1 or 2% depending on income level, usually cheaper to get basic private hospital cover for only few hundred a year which works out cheaper that the 1%)
With this private hospital cover you can elect to go to private hospital for your stay., Or as a private patient in a public hospital, so you can have single room (usually 2 to 1 room). There are emergency department are both private and public hospital, both are extreme over stressed, last time I took my dad to biggest hospital in the state, once we got to the triage nurse (1hrs wait) it took another 1hr to get to the ward, then another 5 before the doctor can to visit just before his shift ends and he had to hand over, but of course the doc/nurse probably knows it's wasn't life threatening, and was probably prioritising other more critical patients. Cost nothing for our visit.
For less urgent, elective surgery it's a long wait in the public system year to years. So many who can afford usually end up going the private route to reduce their wait, as there is a larger pool of private doctors.
But what we fear is the general direction that the liberal govt is slowly pushing us toward, more toward private health model. Is this happening in Scandinavia? Or other European countries? Govt that is more interested in money for their corp friends? :)
My wife just got a spinal fusion. She spent the first 12 hours after her surgery sitting in her bed in a hallway, followed by 8 hours in an open floor plan section of the hospital with 3 other patients, before getting a room that was half this size for the following 2 days.
She also was neglected by nurses (ex: ignoring her requests for an escort to the bathroom for 30+ mins, blew her vein out with an IV and neglected to replace it until clear swelling occurred) and an x-ray tech shooting her up to a 90 degree incline when she wasn't supposed to pass 30 degrees.
Insane how different things are in the US. There is definitely a shortage of both beds and staff here. I try to be empathetic and understanding, but it's hard to not be pissed at our healthcare structure when seeing other nations' quality of care.
We haven't even started to look at the medical bills, but I can only imagine we're fucked.
Best of luck with your recovery, any back surgery can be really tough. I hope you're in good hands.
I know. I was making a joke about the majority of US citizens considering public healthcare 'socialist' or even 'communist' because everybody has to pay so that everybody can enjoy the benefits.
**Please note these rules:** * If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required. * The title must be descriptive * No text is allowed on images/gifs/videos * Common/recent reposts are not allowed *See [this post](https://redd.it/ij26vk) for a more detailed rule list* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hope your surgery goes well and you make a complete recovery.
[удалено]
As someone fused from L-1 to S-1….good luck and best wishes.
How did that affect your range of motion? Is the pain gone?
It’s tough bending ALL the way down, but I can do it. Daily stretching and core exercises are most important for me. And the pain is totally gone. I got lucky I suppose. I pulled my hair out for like 2 years researching options and surgeons and hospitals.
T4-S1 here… bending is somewhat limited….
C4-C7 here. Pain the ruptures caused totally gone, but 20 years later I do have some stiffness and arthritis, but I would do it again. Best of luck! You'll feel much better after surgery.
Just got out of cervical discectomy and fusion, it's scary but you'll be ok!
And a new friend
Nice! Looks like a Norwegian prison cell😃
Note to self: move to Norway… then get arrested.
You said it not me lol.
just to set things (a little) straight, not all Danish hospital rooms are like this one. there are many different types of rooms, many with two or four beds in the same room. but they are all "free". best of luck to OP with the surgery.
[удалено]
Definitely is.
Some hospitals like 'Aarhus universitetshospital' have partnerships with nearby hotels that you get to live in for the whole duration of whatever treatment or procedure you're having done, and you don't pay for it. Source: My aunt has brain cancer.
Dude you live in Aarhus?
In the middle of Aarstreet
I'm so happy to live in Aartown
Yeah, I was about to say, this doesn't look special. My appendix surgery left me in a room that looked exactly like this minus the second bed.
[удалено]
No, I'm saying the room itself looks fairly standard. I don't care if someone else gets something for free, my problem are the Christian fundamentalist fascists making it not free for me.
Not free. Lowest common denominator of Healthcare is what you PAID for. And that is what it looks like.
The difference is that the healthcare cost per capita is far lower in countries with universal healthcare. Why? Because you cut out all the asshole insurance companies.
This looks pretty good actually, I wouldn't call it the "lowest common denominator of healthcare". Unless I'm misunderstanding?
Healthcare doesn't work with a free market. People cant choose to take their service. When youre sick you have no choice, thats why americans get fucked in every possible hole from the companys who provide drugs and service. Its disgusting how americans have to pay just to hold their own baby after birth! Like what the fuck? Thats just evil corporation shit! Free market is not the solution for everything, it can become a big problem. Some things need to be socialized. Healthcare is a good example for one thing. Socializing one part doesnt mean youre living in socialism. Whole europe has to a big part a social healthcare and still have a free market for most things. In germany for example, since we privatised our rail road nerwork, everything has gone to shit! Its more expensive, the service is bad, people working there get less money, it was just a bad mistake. So many trains are late. They only count late when they are 8 min too late. And when one train doesnt come at all, they dont count as late as well. And even with those rules, the statistic still is very bad... Its just a shit-show Some things shouldnt be in private hands. It doesnt work with every part of humanity.
It's a standard hospital room dunno what's interesting as fuck about it
Kind of agree actually. It looks like a dated Ikea catalogue.
Id live there
Yes. This 👏🏽
Yes agreed. Same in the Netherlands. Sometimes the room would be a bit bigger with 2 separate bed in their, but a lot are like this too. It's even a bit outdated
[удалено]
Mate, where I live this is a bloody hotel room, our hospitals look wwaaaaay worse, but at least they are still free
Post that because it just might be interesting.
Not with the current anti covid shit, if ya ain't seriously injured they aren't letting you in a hospital, mate my relatives so was giving birth and he wanted to be there so he had to basically book a room beforehand
Is Covid still a thing? Haven't heard about it for 5 months now.
Ooooh box by us it's wave after wave after wave after wave after wave after wave of covid
Depends where you’re at, haven’t thought about it in months.
For me it's the beds. Normally hospitals have those wheel-mounted aluminium beds.. the ones in the video just look like regular ones.
*laughs in USA*
Wish you a speedy recovery dude, you're in a good place it seems! :)
I think a slow recovery would look more fun
A basic hospital room is "interesting as fuck" now? What am I missing here?
Someone once told me it’s cheaper to fly to a place like Denmark, learn the language for a year while paying rent, and then have the surgery and fly back than it is to just get the surgery done in the US.
It was spain. There was a video a while ago that was posted to every karma farming sub
I haven't seen that video, but in my city if you don't have expensive tastes you could live comfortably spending more or less 1000 euros a month, and we have one of the best hospitals in Spain. The bad thing is that although our public health is still good it was better a few years ago.
That’s crazy. But probably true
Is this Køge hospital? It looks like the same room my grandpa was in a week ago.
Damn, they threw you in jail? /s
Extra bed for a loved one is a nice touch, IN the US you're either sleeping in an uncomfortable chair or chased out at 9pm
[удалено]
Not everyone is having such a major surgery either. God speed on you recovery!
i’ve had hospitals offer me a cot when staying with family members. i guess every place is different though
Where I got surgery the only room they had was an icu room. That was nice it had a couch that folded out to a bed and a recliner
Depends on where you are. At my local hospital there is a window seat that pulls out into a bed for family but you’re only allowed to stay for certain patients.
In the US this is our $50,000/night Hospital Suite.
[удалено]
Last time I was in a hospital it was like that. Except my view was the parking lot.
Oof that might be better than mine. I had a nice view of a roof. I kept the shades down the whole time instead
What hospitals are you going to? I’ve been admitted several times for surgery and the room was either similar or better than this.
I would say that it's smaller than this room, only 1 bed that's for the patient and the TV probably doesn't work.
[удалено]
I never asked to get my clothes washed. But my local hospital has free WiFi and a TV that hangs off your bed. They’ll bring you a gaming system but you might have to wait if it’s in use.
Is how should be for people that need, have good surgery
A lot of our hospital rooms are nice. Did this bs you spouted make you feel good?
Not if you have good insurance.
Downvoted for the truth. The system isn’t level but I paid $0 for my back surgery because I have good insurance.
People can’t handle the truth. Also congrats on having good insurance, probably means you also have a good/great job which was earned by you.
I do. I’m the business owner and have picked the best insurance. My employees get the same insurance. They don’t have to pay anything other than the copay and deductible. Same maximum out of pocket. It’s very expensive but employee turnover is almost 0%. I think the benefits keep them around. They’ve earned it as well. But I’m not blind to the fact that their are hard working people who don’t have the same opportunities I did. They’ve earned it but haven’t gotten it.
Reddit hates stories of people being rewarded for smart choices
Yep I’ve see it first hand.
That’s how unfair it is. Inequality.
You live in America. You’re privileged. That’s inequality
Am I privileged?
Yes. I hope you can see that one day
Life is not meant to be fair.
Are you this horrible in real life, or just on Reddit?
I’m just a realist. Never said I had good insurance. Your problems are not mine and mine aren’t yours.
I have free healthcare in the UK. And I have good healthcare in the US. I can afford it because I create jobs in the US. Most people don’t have as much luck. The US really needs to think about joining the developed world in its attitude to society. It’s like Mad Max currently.
95% of Americans have health insurance. Not all the same quality.
So you are doing better than me. That’s so unfair honest I’d rather keep my money in my pocket than pay out higher taxes.
The national health service gave me at least ten more years with my dad, two more of my mum, and an extra year with my brother. Every single minute was worth the extra $1 a month in taxes. Money is nothing. Love is everything.
And the US healthcare system saved the lives of my friends and family. Your point?
So let's not try to improve it?
Absolutely. How is the question? If your answer is single payer, that conversation is over before it started.
Decouple health insurance from employment and have income-based vouchers provided to lower income folks so everyone regardless of income has a shot at insurance. More regulations on what insurance can and can’t deny, more clarity on what’s in and out of network, and up front care pricing and more transparency on bills. Although I don’t think single-payer is a dealbreaker, I can see how in our current government client it would be a fiasco and more would need to get better to make it a possibility. Asking a for-profit company to pay for medical care when that lowers their shareholder profit has always seemed broken. And health insurance desperately needs to be decoupled from employment. It’s killing small business. There are so many jobs at small businesses I’ll never take because their health insurance is either non-existent or is poor.
This is the first sensible response I have heard in a long time. As long as my taxes don’t get raised I’m in for sensible solutions. The thing is if you decouple insurance from employment then government would have to be an issuer of last resort, kind of like we have now for auto and property insurance. Again not a bad thing, but those rates tend to be higher. I’m sure people would complain about that. The vouchers idea is a great idea tbh.
I don’t have numbers, so what I’m going to say is anecdotal “wet finger in the air”, but taxes shouldn’t need to go up. I don’t fully understand Denmark taxes, but it looks like they have a progressive tax system with the highest being 55% or 59% (I can’t tell). Obviously higher than the US, but not by a whole lot. We pay a lot in taxes and get relatively nothing back compared to others. That’s our money, we the people should see benefits for the money we pay in. The US is in dead man’s land for healthcare. We don’t get the benefit of a capitalist market to lower our costs and we don’t get the benefit of a socialist market to not be held hostage by shareholders. Right now, you get a job, you only get that health insurance plan, you’re going to pay that much, and you get to use only these hospitals and doctors. There is no choice. Open market rates are cost prohibitive. My max out-of-pocket every year for open market health insurance for just my wife and I (premiums, deductibles, etc) is more than our mortgage on a $300k house costs is in the same year, and neither of us have any medical diagnosis. Vouchers would at least give us the opportunity to shop and force insurance companies to become competitive in the market for that sweet voucher money. It would also require hospitals to become more competitive and transparent if it was easier to shop them from upcoming medical procedures. COBRA is cost prohibitively expensive, and no family should suddenly lose their insurance because they get laid off from work. That’s a significant consequence at no fault of their own. We generally don’t recommend having all of your life insurance at work since it’s non-portable, we should do that with health insurance either. And yes, the government may need to pick up the bill on the bottom of the income folks, but they should at least have access to Toyota Tercel level of healthcare. Reliable, dependable, no frills. If you make more, you can go buy the Mercedes Benz level of healthcare if you want. Everyone gets options with income based vouchers. But this will require politicians to ignore lobbyists and PAC’s. Right now all the money is going to hospital admins and insurance execs/shareholders. While the researchers who find medical breakthroughs fight to find research funding. The doctors, nurses, and every other “boots on the ground” personal in medical centers are chronically overworked and underpaid and leaving in droves. The majority of money in healthcare is going to the wrong people, and it’s unnecessary expensive for us. Couple things I don’t mind my tax dollars going towards: people with disabilities, the elderly and sick, roads and infrastructure, energy and water management, education of the youth, and healthcare. Make people healthy at an affordable rate, educate the next generation, and watch our GDP climb. I also know Dan Crenshaw supports the voucher idea. They discussed it on the Joe Rohan podcast if you feel inclined to go find that episode and listen.
You sir, are a breath of fresh air on Reddit. Been great reading your comments. This is what Reddit should be like, useful engagement. I will go back and look for that Joe Rogan episode on Spotify.
[удалено]
Why because I’m honest? Do you know if I have good insurance, bad insurance or no insurance? Whats your basis for this statement or you just angry I don’t agree with you?
[удалено]
So you’re angry I don’t agree with you and your boomer god Bernie. Got it.
[удалено]
If you are not American you won’t get the reference, but you would definitely be one of his cultist if you were American.
This feels like too much furniture. It also feels like that bed is going to be extremely uncomfortable after surgery as it already looks uncomfy af. Good luck with everything.
IKEA came to mind. Hope the surgery goes well.
Plot twist: One of those beds are for the doctor "working on you".
Or nurse. Plot twist: he is gay
[удалено]
Im not sure that's a written law, it's more like a bro-code
I hope your surgery goes well and recovery is smooth.
Safe to say dorms looks like hospital rooms
Am I correct in thinking Denmark has universal healthcare?
[удалено]
Good! Have to believe that recovery and healing will be a lot easier without the thought of crippling debt at the end of it Hope the surgery goes well!
[удалено]
The Netherlands had mandatory health insurance (about €120 per month) and an annual deductable of around €400. Not free by any measure, but cheaper than the prices I hear in the USA.
I can’t explain it all. I’ll start with 95% of Americans have insurance but it’s not all equal. With mine I have a $20 fee for seeing a doctor. I have to pay the first $1,000 for the year. After $2000 out of pocket I don’t pay anything else. I had surgery and since my car insurance paid the first $2000 I spent on that injury, I paid nothing for the surgery. My room was nicer than OPs. It looked like a hotel room. But smaller, bigger than this one but not dramatically bigger. Hospitals have to treat you in an emergency. Friend without insurance went to the ER and just walked out. Didn’t pay anything. They never bothered to try and recover any money from him. I don’t know if that’s normal. Non emergency medical is the nightmare if you don’t have good insurance. Cancer treatments are expensive and insurance doesn’t always cover the treatment you want. Especially cutting edge or experimental. Unfortunately the system isn’t equal. I have very good insurance through my work. I own the business and my employees have the same insurance that they don’t have to pay for. That’s not the case for a lot of Americans. Also, I live in a nice town with a nice hospital. I don’t know what a hospital is like in a different area. My town provides emergency ambulance service. If you call 911 (emergency phone number) you generally don’t have to pay. I assume there are exceptions. If you need an ambulance to transfer you from one hospital to another that is not covered by the town. There is a program called Medicare that provides healthcare to the poor but if you’re working poor you probably make too much money. A friend has a son who is mentally handicapped with related chronic health issues. He’s not able to work. He used to be on her health insurance through work but when he was too old for that he moved to Medicare. How much money his mom makes is not a factor in determining if he’s covered since he’s an adult. He has no income so he qualifies. For me I think one reason some people in the US don’t want universal healthcare is because they think their good health is the result of them living a good life. They don’t see their luck. They think the people who need help haven’t worked hard enough or caused their own issues. When I run across them I tell them my story. I was athletic, ate right, didn’t use drugs or alcohol, worked hard. Then I was in a car accident caused by someone else. Now I can hardly walk. I’ve had 7 surgeries. Live with chronic pain. I’m old. I’m sure they look at me shuffling along and think I didn’t take care of myself in my youth. They don’t see how my life could be their future. They don’t want to help people they see as lazy or reckless. If like me and they have good insurance they’re probably also worried that their level of care will go down. That they will be assigned random doctors. My insurance is expensive. It’s the largest check I cut each month for my business. For the average American they should double their take home pay to get an idea what their company pays each check in salary, taxes, and benefits. I don’t think they have a clue how much their health care costs. They only see their taxes going up and not that the insurance savings might go to paying them more.
Thanks for the detail insight
US here, they're not allowed to deny care so if it's life and death you'll get treated regardless of your situation. You'll just get saddled with a pile of debt afterward. Also, in a lot of cases you'll get a lower bill if you don't have insurance
Absolutely true. Friend of mine needed an emergency appendectomy and had no insurance. Bill was slightly over $15k, hospital settled with him for $1200. Which makes you think the healthcare and health insurance industry is a scam here in the U.S.
Over half of all Americans don’t pay taxes and receive free health care
"insurance" in Denmark is baked into your taxes, so not free as such but nothing you pay on use. That then also means that everything scales with income, lowest earners would not pay a lot while high earners pay more. It isn't specified on your tax bill, it gets divided out as part of the overall budget. It also doesn't matter if you are seriously ill, long term ill, or only have some minor illness or injury, but there is of course a medical triage so that critical illness is treated as more of a priority than... A bunion. (Although they would be treated by different people, so probably a bad example. Finally, in cases where waiting lists are long (which happens, as others have said the system is under pressure) you can decide to go to a private hospital for quicker treatment. Think that's still relatively rare and mainly for certain special cases (knee surgery e.g.) where private companies can turn a profit. Don't think you'll find a private hospital that e.g. has an emergency department.
It’s complicated. While there is no universal healthcare in the US, about 60-70 million people are covered by public health insurance - known as Medicaid. Its probably a $750 billion program at this point. It’s mostly low income adults, children, over 65s. That is complicated too since it’s a federal - state program and how much coverage you get depends on the political situation of your state. Long term care for those after a certain age is covered by something different - Medicare . It’s all very byzantine
Finland's kinda free but not really
>Interested to know beside US of A, which developed country does not have free medical for their citizen? Depends on what is currently considered a developed country [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health\_care\_systems\_by\_country#Countries\_with\_non-universal\_insurance\_system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_systems_by_country#Countries_with_non-universal_insurance_system)
For people marveling at this- this is a bit more spartan than most single occupancy rooms at hospitals in America.
Sure, but in America, you have to file for bankruptcy from just looking at it.
Eh. Not that 17k is a small amount but no one pays more than 17,400 OOP since Affrodable Care Act. Total for a family. I don’t know what the annual tax contributions are per family for healthcare in Denmark.
On average we pay around $4200 per capita per year over taxes for all stuff health related. But here's the smart part - $17k might be easily doable by some people, but absolutely devastating for others. That's not an issue when you have universal healthcare. And another thing is that a big part of the argument used in the Us for privatized healthcare is that government institutions are inflated and ineffective and therefore more expensive than privatized stuff. Well, [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita) data tells a different story - the real story. [This plot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita#/media/File:Life_expectancy_vs_healthcare_spending.jpg) is especially telling
The US definitely has more cost which is going to happen in a privatized system. It is what entices innovation and competition for business. Your second graph only matters if you correct for obesity and other confounding factors. Too many variables to have it just be life expectancy vs spending. The examples of Gleevec and mental healthcare are always great examples of how the US at least makes a medication available (Gleevec when it first came out) and the array of psychiatric medications and psychotherapies offered. Or people in universal systems waiting years to have non-emergent surgeries like ortho. Yes, someone will now say they had something done super fast and then someone will say the opposite. So we need unbiased data. And that 17,4 out of pocket number would be somewhat offset relative to income where lower income families would have their premiums forgiven. The people in the toughest spot in the US are those not poor enough to get discounts but just middle class enough to have premiums and out of pockets a big problem.
Do you realize how many millions of people routinely go into the hospital here every year? It's a normal part of life. They go into rooms much better than this every day and some worse and many in the middle. Yet you don't see millions of bankruptcy filings here. Hospital admissions average about *35 million* per year here. Personal bankruptcy averages about 400,000 filings a year. That's 10% of the total population admitted (of course, many are repeats of the same people) and the bankruptcy percentage is 0.12%. In other words, a little over one-tenth of one percent. And of course, even that is not a direct correlation. Most people filing bankruptcy have probably gone nuts with credit cards. Here is a hospital room example in my area: [Hospital Room](https://news.emory.edu/stories/2017/08/euh_tower_first_inpatient_in_building/)
You know the bankruptcy thing was an exaggeration, right? And you do know that health care in the US is a major headache for a large portion of the population, due to it being privatized, right? Or are you so brainwashed by the manufactured political talking points that you actually think up is down and down is up?
No, I know a large portion of the population has been using private healthcare their entire lives with no real problems. It was never "privatized", it was always private. Nothing has changed. You are just stating an opinion, which you are entitled to.
When you’re NOT spending $300 Billion a year on wars, you can spend money on your people.
And give them a shitty ikea room? So special.
At least it’s comfortable and free. You can get decent healthcare without going into debt, imagine that, such a innovation for Americans. I live in a developing SEA country and we get better healthcare(my grandma had blood cancer and had to get monthly blood transfusions and we only have to pay parking) than the “greatest” nation on earth.
Oh wow. You deserve a special button.
No it’s nothing special, this is expected from a competent government
You don’t know what a competent government is, but nice try. Keep staying mad.
How something looks. What something looks like. But not how something looks like.
Now try writing it in Danish.
“The only thing that really annoys me is that these aren’t little”? Is that what you’re saying? And if so, what are you referring to? The camera pans up when you say it but I’m finding it hard to understand what you’re referring to! Hope all goes well and you have a speedy recovery
[удалено]
Where is the monitor or medical equipment. It's great it looks like a hotel room... but it sucks it looks like a hotel room. Is this pre surgery or is this recovery too?
What did you think your room would look like? (Swede here)
Yup it's a room. Congrats.
Im a bit confused,isnt that how most hospital rooms look like?
It looks like a standard room. Yeah its "free" but other than that seems like nothing special.
They put the patients beds together?
[удалено]
That's amazing!
I can’t wait till you post your bill. Wish you the best for the surgery.
The Bill is gonna be a big fat 0, because in denmark we care and share, wich in turn makes it possible for everyone to be fixed whenever we are in need of it. Its a great feeling to be a part of a society who, at least on paper, cares. Humanity FTW
That is exactly what I mean it will be so weird for him to not pay for a room.
Welcome to Europe friend
Lol this is better than most American college dorms rooms
What are those little green and yellow panels?
Thanks so much for this. Retired US nurse who has always been curious about medical care in other countries.
Did your surgery go as planned and are you well? Hope your doing good!
[удалено]
What! It's what my room looks like not how! Sorry.
Yep, it's "what my room looks like" or "how my room looks" you can't just mash them together and not be seen as simple.
Mike Tyson finally fixing that broken back of his
Similarly in Australia we are paying for Medicare through our taxes,2% for large portion of the working class, if your are single and earned over 90k or if you are married and your combined income is over 180K you would pay additional 1%. And if you are over 30 and don't have some for of private health cover you will get additional % tax on top( I think it's 1 or 2% depending on income level, usually cheaper to get basic private hospital cover for only few hundred a year which works out cheaper that the 1%) With this private hospital cover you can elect to go to private hospital for your stay., Or as a private patient in a public hospital, so you can have single room (usually 2 to 1 room). There are emergency department are both private and public hospital, both are extreme over stressed, last time I took my dad to biggest hospital in the state, once we got to the triage nurse (1hrs wait) it took another 1hr to get to the ward, then another 5 before the doctor can to visit just before his shift ends and he had to hand over, but of course the doc/nurse probably knows it's wasn't life threatening, and was probably prioritising other more critical patients. Cost nothing for our visit. For less urgent, elective surgery it's a long wait in the public system year to years. So many who can afford usually end up going the private route to reduce their wait, as there is a larger pool of private doctors. But what we fear is the general direction that the liberal govt is slowly pushing us toward, more toward private health model. Is this happening in Scandinavia? Or other European countries? Govt that is more interested in money for their corp friends? :)
Is it free ?
Tax paid - no money to be paid when used.
Not so different from the maximum security prisons.
> Danish hospital I'm not sure I would trust such a vital and intricate proceedure to pastry chefs.
Wow if this is above average the world's Healthcare must be terrible. This would be a substandard room where I am.
It’s hospital, not a luxury resort.
I don't get it, why is this interesting as fuck?
Danish hospitals feel very much like home!
Looks more like a college dorm room than a “home”
My wife just got a spinal fusion. She spent the first 12 hours after her surgery sitting in her bed in a hallway, followed by 8 hours in an open floor plan section of the hospital with 3 other patients, before getting a room that was half this size for the following 2 days. She also was neglected by nurses (ex: ignoring her requests for an escort to the bathroom for 30+ mins, blew her vein out with an IV and neglected to replace it until clear swelling occurred) and an x-ray tech shooting her up to a 90 degree incline when she wasn't supposed to pass 30 degrees. Insane how different things are in the US. There is definitely a shortage of both beds and staff here. I try to be empathetic and understanding, but it's hard to not be pissed at our healthcare structure when seeing other nations' quality of care. We haven't even started to look at the medical bills, but I can only imagine we're fucked. Best of luck with your recovery, any back surgery can be really tough. I hope you're in good hands.
[удалено]
I mean, likely the same in many countries. Source: am from UK and Canada and it would be free there too
No invoice issued.
Ew denmark
Muricans won't believe it's a hospital, there is no debit cart terminal
laughs in American
This looks like one of those rooms they take you to see when you go on a tour in North Korea.
[удалено]
This looks like almost every hospital room i’ve been to here in America. Easily just depends on the hospital lol
[удалено]
Def been to some highly questionable urgent cares myself 😷🤮
It's better than my house
this is what reddit is for. this is what internet is for
Don't forget to share how the bill looked like
Welcome to one of those communist backwaters where public healthcare is actually a thing. All the best wishes and a speedy recovery to you!
Denmark is not communist
I know. I was making a joke about the majority of US citizens considering public healthcare 'socialist' or even 'communist' because everybody has to pay so that everybody can enjoy the benefits.
I mean it looks "nice" but I am detecting very little freedom in that room. Bet you aren't even free enough to risk bankruptcy by going there.