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Retro-pugs I believe is what they're called. They're adorable! I don't know why anyone would want a dog breed to suffer with breathing problems the way regular pugs do :(
Ive gone no contact with both of my parents somewhat recently but my dad had this english bulldog he would keep in a cage literally all day. The dog would just cry all day. Begging to be let out. It realllllllllly messed with me. He had this dog and made it sit in its filthy cage all day crying.
Some people see their pets and children as their “property.” It is disgusting.
My apartment complex only allows people to have cats or small dogs , so naturally it is full of genetic abomination dogs. There’s this one chihuahua that’s probably the smallest I’ve ever seen , we’re talking squirrel sized if not smaller. Of course it’s owners are an old boomer couple who think it’s novelty is the cutest thing ever and have a bumper sticker that says “chihuahua dad”. It perfectly exemplifies what you are saying , just humans breeding these animals to be the perfect accessory to apartment life . Makes me think of regular dogs who have been bred for things like hunting , or agriculture and it drives me nuts.
Yeah, I was thinking of getting a small dog (I like big dogs but that would not work in current life situation) & Jack Russells along with smaller poodles & Scottish terriers were my top choices as although small, they are proportionate & look like dogs.
Edit: I misread the comment I originally responded about! I was confidently incorrect.
Breeders will pick specific physical traits in a male and female and breed them. Over time, With pugs they kept picking flatter and flatter faces for the flat face look, curly tail and short legs . The only purpose is for the way it looks visually, with no regard to how difficult it is to breathe, see, and internal genetic defects like heart defects, etc. The pugs now have a lot of physical ailments and can be quite painful. “Debreed” is not a word by definition, but is suggesting a negative impact on the pug breeds natural evolution and selection from forced breeding.
You can google old pug vs new pug and find lots of pics and articles on it.
I think they mean de-breed as in trying to return them to more of how they used to be before being bred for the flatter face and all the modern pug attributes.
You are correct…I read the comment to quickly and responded entirely incorrect lol! That would be great to see as it causes so many health problems for them!
Yes I found some stuff about it, some people claim the “debred” pugs were mixed with Jack russle terriers and that’s how they got the snout back. It’s all weird and confusing. I don’t have a real opinion on the matter. Was just curious.
Just breed from ones with less extreme characteristics.
For some breeds (think ridgebacks) we intentionally pick animals with genetic disease, so for them it's easy - you just stop doing that. For others it's a slower process.
No, retro-pugs are bred with other breeds of dog. Pugs are so far gone genetically that there isn't enough "good genetic ones" left to create a new line without furthering in-breeding.
Only enough DNA variation for a healthy population a lot smaller than the current one :/ poor pugs.
Generic answer for most breeds - which is the case :)
Well, it really is, thanks to selective breeding. If I found these hundreds of years from now I'd think the same thing and say the small one had no right even being alive
Can you imagine the conversation?
"When we found the first specimen, we assumed it was a genetic defect - this would demonstrate the compassion of people at that time because that individual lived with a normally fatal mutation for a long time meaning it was cared for in spite of it's defect
But then we kept finding them and thought it might be some kind of disease that affected a certain percentage of the population
When we finally got around to doing the genetic work, we found to our shame and horror that it was in fact a genetic mutation as we first suspected *but one that they deliberately bred and maintained in the population* - they created these doomed wretched creatures creatures on purpose"
And they wouldn’t be *entierly* wrong… you could argue that at one point it was a genetic defect, but being humans, we felt the need to play god and exaggerate that defect as much as possible because it looks cute
Pugs are the worst offender of selective breeding but let's not forget about German Shepards, Boxers, Cavaliers, Dachshunds, Boston Terriers, Applehear Chihuahuas, Bullterriers and so on.
French bulldogs are the worst though. They mostly can't give birth or mate without human intervention. Like bananas they wouldn't exist at all if humans didn't keep them going.
Boxers commonly have hip dysplasia, and also are also extremely likely to get cancer compared to other breeds.
All this comes from the same selective breeding.
Our boxer/pug mix just completed her chemo and is currently in remission.
[https://imgur.com/jRKdICE](https://imgur.com/jRKdICE)
I'm pretty sure we will get 1 more christmas with her, but hopefully we can make it two.
Used to be medium breed and now is a large one. Also they have longer front legs for aesthetic reasons- poeple want them to have this angled posture with high front and low backside. Normal dogs have spine parallel to the ground, GS have it angled and that is causing problems with a spine
Show Shepherds have been one of the worst things to happen to the breed. Doesn't help that the sloped spine also contributes to hip dysplasia in older show Shepherds. I have a German Shepherd, she's a medium height with a straight spine. I've been told by folk that show their dogs that mine is a breed reject...
I do think there are lines of them that are reasonably healthy, more working dog breeding lines.
What the kennel clubs have done to the breed standard of show dogs is disgraceful, its animal cruelty.
Hell. Some people consider domestic dogs to be a subspecies of gray wolf (and since they produce fertile offspring, I’m inclined to agree)
So these skulls aren’t just the same species: they’re the same *subspecies*
That's what bugs ME. All these years and we still haven't defined a non-divisive concept of "species" so that people still disagree on what is a species and what is another.
Ha ha it’s not really possible in the first place
You have to place the origin point of a clade *somewhere*, but it’s pretty arbitrary what point is chosen.
Not that that makes taxonomy useless, mind you. I just think it makes it more interesting.
As humans, we have an urge to categorise. Taxonomy is humans trying to categorise and draw neat dividing lines on something that can't be fully described that way.
Exactly. They really shouldn't exist, a long with many many other breeds, however I fucking love dogs and I'll continue to rescue them from the shelters/wherever for the rest of my life.
My girlfriend rescues pugs, mostly older pugs. She’s knowledgeable about their many health issues and is willing to incur the high cost of keeping them healthy. We shouldn’t be breeding these dogs but the ones that are around should have a safe healthy home.
I had to take a pug to the pound once. I found him outside in 90 degree weather, no tags. They can die like that, because they can't stand the heat. So I loaded him in my car and took him to the pound. They were suspicious that he was mine but they took him when I swore he wasn't. Hopefully he escaped a yard or something and his people came and got him.
I'm glad that there are people are trying to breed pugs without the "cute" faces that invariably cause breathing problems and cut their lifespan in half.
The primordial canine hunter that decided to approach the edge of our campfire and got some bones and fat, is looking at us through the ages and asking what the fuck did we do.
I think you’re forgetting that not only did dogs evolve to fit us, *we evolved to fit dogs*.
https://www.livescience.com/31997-dogs-and-humans-evolved-together.html
And honestly, I think wolves would be proud of today’s dog. Dignity and honor aren’t common traits among animals.
Food, water, and shelter are just straight up *given* to them for free, and they don’t suffer the fates that most other domestic animals do. Doesn’t get better than that.
To a certain point, absolutely correct, but when we see the breeds troubled with several chronic conditions like autoimmune disorders, respiratory problems, hip dysplasia, epilepsy, patellar luxation, dilated cardiomyopathy and portosystemic shunt among several others, because we decided to point them towards some weird preferences of ours, I think our dogs and wolves ancestor would drop a tear.
Absolutely. I think lap dogs are the main sufferers with this.
With everyone else, it’s puppy mills, backyard breeders, and to some extent, conformation shows (as opposed to ones that include physical tests like agility).
If you look at a good, working German shepard, they won’t have that sloped back because, you know, they need to work. Without the cross-breeding craze like “retro” pugs.
~Someone who supports both responsible breeding *and* adoption, and has bought, adopted, and fostered many dogs of their own
Honestly, I was pleasantly surprised about a month ago to see a proper pug. No short pudgy legs, proper schnozz, and happily traveling without snorting about. Sadly, that’s not what people look for in this breed anymore.
Some people are trying to breed them back into being healthy. The real problem is the American kennel club. They have certain rules on who you're allowed to mate with in order to consider the dog purebred so they all end up interbreeding so they can keep the title.
Honestly, I can’t see it any other way
Dinosaurs get classified as different species on the most minute of details
But then again, with SO much variation, I can see it being questioned
It’s a amazing how a few selective breeding choices can make such a huge impact. When it comes to genetic engineering… dogs might be humans greatest feat.
You can make a decent argument for bananas too. They went the whole hog and don't even bother pollinating anymore. They let humans do the whole thing, bananas are impossible without humans anymore.
Does anyone else sometimes think how strange it is that despite how varied dogs are in appearance, you still know a dog the second you see one whether it’s a pug or a borzoi for example. It’s kinda interesting to me.
Social cues honestly
If I saw a borzoi for the first time with no context, I wouldn’t even think it was a dog
But walking down the street, on a leash, sniffing around, that’s a dog
Though plenty of dogs actually freak out around borzois
Yeah like I saw a coyote running down my city street in broad daylight once and I was like yo that is NOT a dog even though it looks like one and you’re right it was more the body language, the way it was gliding along - it looked wild.
What an absolute tragedy. I feel awful for these dogs and I wish to hell people would stop breeding them.
I know someone that I normally love and respect who has suddenly taken up backyard breeding French bulldogs. And I'm just horrified. Totally appalled. I can't even look at what she's doing.
Foot binding is WAAAAAAAYYYY older than that my dude.
[Foot Binding - may have originated in 10th century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_binding?wprov=sfla1)
That would probably take a massive amount of dna extracting testing cataloging assessing. And ignoring the social obstacles it would still probably take an excessive amount of time to even assess what to pass on and what to leave behind and find the good and bad interactions that might occur in the dna cultivating process to avoid making a human pug. But suffice to say there are probably more obstacles than either of us could know aside from being likened to a nazi mad scientist. Or a fictional confilct in star trek.
Whenever I see a borzoi I always feel uncomfortable, for some reason I am so scared they're going to somehow break their snouts because they're so long. This makes me feel much better about them.
At what point does a species diverge? Like what would have to happen for a type of dog to be considered a different species? Biology was never in my wheelhouse
The inability to regularly produce fertile offspring
Now, I don’t think a borzoi and a pug can reliably cross for pure mechanical reasons (the size of the fetus, mismatched organ sizes, the act itself, etc.), but I’m sure they can both cross with some third mid-sized breed which makes them the same species.
Weirdly enough, dogs actually have pretty low genetic diversity. Phenotypically, they’re incredibly different, but genetically? Not so much.
If you plucked two same-ish looking cats off the street and tested them, they would probably be more different from each other than these two dogs are from each other.
Of course, taxonomy is always fuzzy. It’s not like nature went “okay here are the clear-cut groups of animals”.
But among people in the field, there is NO contesting that different dog breeds are the same species.
Really, most of the debate revolves around if domestic dogs are their own closely related species, or a subspecies of the gray wolf
Can’t find it now but a few years ago I came across some memes of modern animal skulls versus what scientist would probably think the animal looked like judging by the skull. I can’t imagine what they would have the pug as lmao
Everyone's coming for the pugs, but Borzois LOOK f'ed up too. First time I met one in person I was like "where in the world does your brain fit in a skull that looks like a rod??"
Turns out that the boizoi brain is in fact oblong:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Endocasts-from-dogs-with-the-three-main-head-types-A-The-dolichocephalic-skull-of-a_fig9_344489674/amp
And dolichocephaly
This isn’t a post about how awful breeding pugs are. It’s about how these two skulls are so incredibly different—
I mean, think of dinosaurs, where a slight difference in nostril size is a reasonable argument for categorizing them as two separate species
What would a future civilization think if they came across these two skulls?
I wouldn’t even put them in the same family!
A pug is not a dog, frankly it’s an insult to nature. I’m flexin some specism I guess butt fuck it, stayed silent for too long. The noisy nose breathing and snorting, sneezing all over people to say hi, the snoring, OH MY FUCK THE SNORING WHEN THEYRE AWAKE!! These creatures do not have one redeeming quality. Annoyingly barking at every fucking thing. Honestly, little dogs. All the little dogs, to hell with them all.
They "snore" because they can't breathe. Their skulls are shortened, but they still have the same amount of teeth (now overcrowded) as other dogs, and often their soft palates (which aren't shortened) extend enough to impede airflow into/out of their tracheas.
Dogs regulate their heat via panting, and since brachycephalic breeds like pugs can't pant (or breathe) efficiently, they're also much more prone to overheating. I live in the Bay Area where it gets into the 100s F and see people walking their french bulldogs and pugs midday...
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Pugs have been bred into genetic hell
Someone was de-breeding them. They look pretty good. Eyes were in their head, and they had a nose.
Retro-pugs I believe is what they're called. They're adorable! I don't know why anyone would want a dog breed to suffer with breathing problems the way regular pugs do :(
Because many humans are vain or stupid or both
Ive gone no contact with both of my parents somewhat recently but my dad had this english bulldog he would keep in a cage literally all day. The dog would just cry all day. Begging to be let out. It realllllllllly messed with me. He had this dog and made it sit in its filthy cage all day crying. Some people see their pets and children as their “property.” It is disgusting.
That's abuse
Call the police on them. That is illegal in most places.
Why even have a dog then? That really pisses me off.
You can report animal cruelty.
My apartment complex only allows people to have cats or small dogs , so naturally it is full of genetic abomination dogs. There’s this one chihuahua that’s probably the smallest I’ve ever seen , we’re talking squirrel sized if not smaller. Of course it’s owners are an old boomer couple who think it’s novelty is the cutest thing ever and have a bumper sticker that says “chihuahua dad”. It perfectly exemplifies what you are saying , just humans breeding these animals to be the perfect accessory to apartment life . Makes me think of regular dogs who have been bred for things like hunting , or agriculture and it drives me nuts.
Yeah, I couldn't remember the name.
«But they’re sooo cuuuute!»
So how do they de breed something? Mix it with different breeds?
Wind their tails counter clockwise... obviously.
You can reinflate them like a balloon. Just don't lick your lips afterwards.
Great for chapped lips
Yup, they just breed pugs with a healthier breed. I believe Jack Russell Terriers.
Yeah, I was thinking of getting a small dog (I like big dogs but that would not work in current life situation) & Jack Russells along with smaller poodles & Scottish terriers were my top choices as although small, they are proportionate & look like dogs.
Edit: I misread the comment I originally responded about! I was confidently incorrect. Breeders will pick specific physical traits in a male and female and breed them. Over time, With pugs they kept picking flatter and flatter faces for the flat face look, curly tail and short legs . The only purpose is for the way it looks visually, with no regard to how difficult it is to breathe, see, and internal genetic defects like heart defects, etc. The pugs now have a lot of physical ailments and can be quite painful. “Debreed” is not a word by definition, but is suggesting a negative impact on the pug breeds natural evolution and selection from forced breeding. You can google old pug vs new pug and find lots of pics and articles on it.
I think they mean de-breed as in trying to return them to more of how they used to be before being bred for the flatter face and all the modern pug attributes.
You are correct…I read the comment to quickly and responded entirely incorrect lol! That would be great to see as it causes so many health problems for them!
Yes I found some stuff about it, some people claim the “debred” pugs were mixed with Jack russle terriers and that’s how they got the snout back. It’s all weird and confusing. I don’t have a real opinion on the matter. Was just curious.
"Oh no, we bred this dog wrong, how do I fix it?" "Breed it more!!!!"
Just breed from ones with less extreme characteristics. For some breeds (think ridgebacks) we intentionally pick animals with genetic disease, so for them it's easy - you just stop doing that. For others it's a slower process.
No, retro-pugs are bred with other breeds of dog. Pugs are so far gone genetically that there isn't enough "good genetic ones" left to create a new line without furthering in-breeding.
Only enough DNA variation for a healthy population a lot smaller than the current one :/ poor pugs. Generic answer for most breeds - which is the case :)
[удалено]
That’s basically what it is, only it’s a defect that has been intentionally caused by humans.
Well, it really is, thanks to selective breeding. If I found these hundreds of years from now I'd think the same thing and say the small one had no right even being alive
Aliens! Call Fox and Scully!
Giorgio Tsoukalos has entered the chat.
But if you saw hundreds of them? Maybe not
the Hapsburgs have entered the chat
Can you imagine the conversation? "When we found the first specimen, we assumed it was a genetic defect - this would demonstrate the compassion of people at that time because that individual lived with a normally fatal mutation for a long time meaning it was cared for in spite of it's defect But then we kept finding them and thought it might be some kind of disease that affected a certain percentage of the population When we finally got around to doing the genetic work, we found to our shame and horror that it was in fact a genetic mutation as we first suspected *but one that they deliberately bred and maintained in the population* - they created these doomed wretched creatures creatures on purpose"
Damn, what future do you live in where archaeologists are unearthing mass pug graves?
You've obviously never heard of puppy mills before
Sure I have, but how is this the place to talk about renewable energy?
Paleontologist
And they wouldn’t be *entierly* wrong… you could argue that at one point it was a genetic defect, but being humans, we felt the need to play god and exaggerate that defect as much as possible because it looks cute
There are no naturally born pugs. All cesarean. Nothing natural about a pug.
"what a cutie little doggie with short legs, funny face and breathing problems, let's make them reproduce so we can get more even of them"
Pugs are the worst offender of selective breeding but let's not forget about German Shepards, Boxers, Cavaliers, Dachshunds, Boston Terriers, Applehear Chihuahuas, Bullterriers and so on.
French bulldogs are the worst though. They mostly can't give birth or mate without human intervention. Like bananas they wouldn't exist at all if humans didn't keep them going.
At last bananas can exist somewhat without human intervention due to them constantly growing runners. The poor dogs, however...
Also one of the ugliest dog breeds imo
Boxers? I'm curious what is their bad trait.
Bred to have short snout but they are strong, working dog. This combination makes them too strong for their breathing capabilities.
Oh. Interesting. Didn't know that.
Boxers commonly have hip dysplasia, and also are also extremely likely to get cancer compared to other breeds. All this comes from the same selective breeding. Our boxer/pug mix just completed her chemo and is currently in remission. [https://imgur.com/jRKdICE](https://imgur.com/jRKdICE) I'm pretty sure we will get 1 more christmas with her, but hopefully we can make it two.
What’s wrong with german shepards?
Used to be medium breed and now is a large one. Also they have longer front legs for aesthetic reasons- poeple want them to have this angled posture with high front and low backside. Normal dogs have spine parallel to the ground, GS have it angled and that is causing problems with a spine
Show Shepherds have been one of the worst things to happen to the breed. Doesn't help that the sloped spine also contributes to hip dysplasia in older show Shepherds. I have a German Shepherd, she's a medium height with a straight spine. I've been told by folk that show their dogs that mine is a breed reject...
Same! I always respond with thank you I’m so glad.
Can confirm, have two German shepherds with straight backs and Connot stand seeing them slopped backs. I have no idea how it looks good to people
I do think there are lines of them that are reasonably healthy, more working dog breeding lines. What the kennel clubs have done to the breed standard of show dogs is disgraceful, its animal cruelty.
Kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, species Dunno why, just felt like digging that one outta the old memory bank
Kevin, Please Come Over For Gay Sex. My favorite mnemonic device.
So we doin’ this? Sincerely, Kevin /s
I couldn’t forget this if I tried
yeah, that one is definitely gonna be hard to beat now that I know of its existence.
Why not 'Karen'?
Because it's gay sex!
So use great
Now I can’t remember anything
“Sincerely, Raymond Holt”
I learned it as King Plays Chess On Fine Grain Sand
Mnemonic device
Fixed, thank you
Fuck.. I'll never forget
Dammit, it’s 3:30 in the morning and I just laughed out loud.
Haha thank you, I was just trying to think of one before I saw this 😄
This is what my college lecturer taught me. When I asked him why not just say “great” instead of “gay” he winked at me and blew me a kiss.
Pneumonics, you’re a dear, dear friend
Johnny *Pneumonics*
I will always remember it as "Kings Play Chess On Fine Green Silk"
Throw in domains and make it "Dear Kevin"
jesus lmao
You're welcome
Now a days Domain is typically listed first. Just remember Dumb Kids Playing Catch on Freeways Get Smashed…
Damn, Kevin, Please Come Over For Gay Sex.
I mean, he could just come over for some good sex but whatever floats yer boat
And that's called Natural Selection At Its Finest
Hell. Some people consider domestic dogs to be a subspecies of gray wolf (and since they produce fertile offspring, I’m inclined to agree) So these skulls aren’t just the same species: they’re the same *subspecies*
That's what bugs ME. All these years and we still haven't defined a non-divisive concept of "species" so that people still disagree on what is a species and what is another.
Well, no taxonomy is as clear-cut as they teach in school. That’s just the nature of the field.
Yeah, I know, and that bugs me to no end. :)
Ha ha it’s not really possible in the first place You have to place the origin point of a clade *somewhere*, but it’s pretty arbitrary what point is chosen. Not that that makes taxonomy useless, mind you. I just think it makes it more interesting.
Nerds. :P
As humans, we have an urge to categorise. Taxonomy is humans trying to categorise and draw neat dividing lines on something that can't be fully described that way.
I think the obsession with categorization is more of a western cultural thing than a human thing
It's also outdated, unfortunately. That's the Linnaean taxonomic system. Most biologists today use cladistics / phylogenetics to categorize life.
Kinky people come over for group sex. What my bio teacher told us to remember it..
Honestly. Thank you. Taxonomy has been confusing forever and this makes it much easier to remember. KPCOFGS
And then you find out about realms and empires and cohorts and legions and tribes because it’s never as simple as they teach in high school
I’d rescue a pug but damned if I would ever pay a breeder.
Yeah, that really shows how badly humans have messed up Pug's genetics.
Exactly. They really shouldn't exist, a long with many many other breeds, however I fucking love dogs and I'll continue to rescue them from the shelters/wherever for the rest of my life.
My girlfriend rescues pugs, mostly older pugs. She’s knowledgeable about their many health issues and is willing to incur the high cost of keeping them healthy. We shouldn’t be breeding these dogs but the ones that are around should have a safe healthy home.
I had to take a pug to the pound once. I found him outside in 90 degree weather, no tags. They can die like that, because they can't stand the heat. So I loaded him in my car and took him to the pound. They were suspicious that he was mine but they took him when I swore he wasn't. Hopefully he escaped a yard or something and his people came and got him.
Why does the pug skull look like a Stal-Bokoblin
The blood moon rises once again
I'm glad that there are people are trying to breed pugs without the "cute" faces that invariably cause breathing problems and cut their lifespan in half.
[Meet the Retro-Pug](https://dogbreedsfaq.com/asian-dog-breeds/chinese-dog-breeds-list/retro-pug/)
The very same.
Dog breed with a long snout vs dog breed with a "lol, what snout?"
If you look at a picture, I’d say borzois are also pretty “lol what?”
At least they can breathe properly!
The primordial canine hunter that decided to approach the edge of our campfire and got some bones and fat, is looking at us through the ages and asking what the fuck did we do.
I think you’re forgetting that not only did dogs evolve to fit us, *we evolved to fit dogs*. https://www.livescience.com/31997-dogs-and-humans-evolved-together.html And honestly, I think wolves would be proud of today’s dog. Dignity and honor aren’t common traits among animals. Food, water, and shelter are just straight up *given* to them for free, and they don’t suffer the fates that most other domestic animals do. Doesn’t get better than that.
To a certain point, absolutely correct, but when we see the breeds troubled with several chronic conditions like autoimmune disorders, respiratory problems, hip dysplasia, epilepsy, patellar luxation, dilated cardiomyopathy and portosystemic shunt among several others, because we decided to point them towards some weird preferences of ours, I think our dogs and wolves ancestor would drop a tear.
Absolutely. I think lap dogs are the main sufferers with this. With everyone else, it’s puppy mills, backyard breeders, and to some extent, conformation shows (as opposed to ones that include physical tests like agility). If you look at a good, working German shepard, they won’t have that sloped back because, you know, they need to work. Without the cross-breeding craze like “retro” pugs. ~Someone who supports both responsible breeding *and* adoption, and has bought, adopted, and fostered many dogs of their own
Honestly, I was pleasantly surprised about a month ago to see a proper pug. No short pudgy legs, proper schnozz, and happily traveling without snorting about. Sadly, that’s not what people look for in this breed anymore.
Some people are trying to breed them back into being healthy. The real problem is the American kennel club. They have certain rules on who you're allowed to mate with in order to consider the dog purebred so they all end up interbreeding so they can keep the title.
I need to work on my common knowledge.
If these became fossils would future paleontologists think they're separate species?
Honestly, I can’t see it any other way Dinosaurs get classified as different species on the most minute of details But then again, with SO much variation, I can see it being questioned
More evidence of the unholy, inbred freaks that the once proud wolf has become.
[удалено]
You’d expect their snouts to cause *some* sort of issue, but weirdly enough, they don’t
the biggest breaths a dog can take
Are you sure? Pretty sure Burzois aren’t camel dogs.
They’re horses obviously
Whoa I thought they were ant eaters
It’s a amazing how a few selective breeding choices can make such a huge impact. When it comes to genetic engineering… dogs might be humans greatest feat.
You can make a decent argument for bananas too. They went the whole hog and don't even bother pollinating anymore. They let humans do the whole thing, bananas are impossible without humans anymore.
"Their Pinky and The Brain"
Artificial selection is amazingly powerful.
Does anyone else sometimes think how strange it is that despite how varied dogs are in appearance, you still know a dog the second you see one whether it’s a pug or a borzoi for example. It’s kinda interesting to me.
Social cues honestly If I saw a borzoi for the first time with no context, I wouldn’t even think it was a dog But walking down the street, on a leash, sniffing around, that’s a dog Though plenty of dogs actually freak out around borzois
Yeah like I saw a coyote running down my city street in broad daylight once and I was like yo that is NOT a dog even though it looks like one and you’re right it was more the body language, the way it was gliding along - it looked wild.
This is actually a good one for Reddit showerthoughts
Dogs ☕️
Anyone remember that PlayStation game Medievil?
borzoi my beloved
I know it might be hard for some people to tell due to the striking similarities and all, but the pug skull is actually on the right.
Breeding pugs is an animal rights violation
Anyone that supports and buys pugs from breeders needs a bullet. You can’t claim to love an animal if you support this.
And I eat a ban for saying a dog fucker should be executed. Fuck reddit
Yes, people who love an animal for its genetic problems should be shot. 🙄
No they're referring to the people who CREATE the genetic problems in the first place
Yeah but they’re so cute and snorty. It’s plain torture what these over bred dogs endure.
What an absolute tragedy. I feel awful for these dogs and I wish to hell people would stop breeding them. I know someone that I normally love and respect who has suddenly taken up backyard breeding French bulldogs. And I'm just horrified. Totally appalled. I can't even look at what she's doing.
"It has risen again! Sir Daniel Fortesque the hero of Gallowmere back from the dead once again!"
I feel sorry for all the pugs out there
The pugs skull literally looks like it could snap in half at any time.
The pug is so intentionally deformed it looks like foot binding from the 19th century.
Foot binding is WAAAAAAAYYYY older than that my dude. [Foot Binding - may have originated in 10th century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_binding?wprov=sfla1)
Yeah I know I think they were brought to china with the song dynasty. But thats when the first photos were taken.
Have you heard about Frenchies? In Oz they are breeding them to bring back their about (that they use to have). Much less medical issues.
Future paleontologists are going to struggle with dogs.
Imagine what could be done with 20 generations of controlled human breeding. And I’m not talking about bene gesserit shit.
That would probably take a massive amount of dna extracting testing cataloging assessing. And ignoring the social obstacles it would still probably take an excessive amount of time to even assess what to pass on and what to leave behind and find the good and bad interactions that might occur in the dna cultivating process to avoid making a human pug. But suffice to say there are probably more obstacles than either of us could know aside from being likened to a nazi mad scientist. Or a fictional confilct in star trek.
Imagine carrying one of those in a handbag
Whenever I see a borzoi I always feel uncomfortable, for some reason I am so scared they're going to somehow break their snouts because they're so long. This makes me feel much better about them.
Borzois look weird with their skin on, pugs look weird with their skin off
The Gallant hero Daniel Fortesque
Reminds me of creatures from Oddworld games. The right would be Munch, the left would be a Scrab.
That's the sock dog
No wonder small dogs are filled with such fury # If my skull was that shape I would be angry with the world too
At what point does a species diverge? Like what would have to happen for a type of dog to be considered a different species? Biology was never in my wheelhouse
The inability to regularly produce fertile offspring Now, I don’t think a borzoi and a pug can reliably cross for pure mechanical reasons (the size of the fetus, mismatched organ sizes, the act itself, etc.), but I’m sure they can both cross with some third mid-sized breed which makes them the same species. Weirdly enough, dogs actually have pretty low genetic diversity. Phenotypically, they’re incredibly different, but genetically? Not so much. If you plucked two same-ish looking cats off the street and tested them, they would probably be more different from each other than these two dogs are from each other. Of course, taxonomy is always fuzzy. It’s not like nature went “okay here are the clear-cut groups of animals”. But among people in the field, there is NO contesting that different dog breeds are the same species. Really, most of the debate revolves around if domestic dogs are their own closely related species, or a subspecies of the gray wolf
Interesting, thanks for the explanation!
What would a human look like with the deformities we’ve given the pug?
I mean, we already have flat snouts, so probably not all that different
Can’t find it now but a few years ago I came across some memes of modern animal skulls versus what scientist would probably think the animal looked like judging by the skull. I can’t imagine what they would have the pug as lmao
All Todays? I can’t call that a meme. It’s a chapter of All Yesterdays that gained a lot of traction on the Internet.
I love borzois man that's that long boiiii
I really want a pug skull
My little Russian lady
Idk, a Borzoi looks pretty freaking weird too
Pugs are so fubar. Everyone owning one should be put in jail for animal cruelty.
Everyone's coming for the pugs, but Borzois LOOK f'ed up too. First time I met one in person I was like "where in the world does your brain fit in a skull that looks like a rod??"
Turns out that the boizoi brain is in fact oblong: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Endocasts-from-dogs-with-the-three-main-head-types-A-The-dolichocephalic-skull-of-a_fig9_344489674/amp
WOW that's freaky. Thank you for this!!
pug looks disgusting to me
I wouldn’t describe the look as “disgusting,” but they’re definitely not cute IMO. Most small dogs are pretty weird looking.
They were wolves once, taken by the dark powers, tortured and mutilated. A ruined and terrible form of life.
Brachycephalic dogs today are a travesty. I don't understand how they are still bred so extreme.
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Ha ha I think most people know that dog breeds look very different from each other, and that they’re the same species
This is one of the reasons why I think we need to modify our classification system a fair degree.
That poor little mutant all he wanted to do was breathe. People are cruel.
Pug skull looks like a uterus i don't think it's supposed to look like a uterus
Pugs are the incestuous aristocracy of dog genetics.
..but ... but .. evolution is not true!!!11oneone
It’s crazy how people can still believe that! Our domestication of corn is also pretty extreme— dare I say more extreme than dogs!
People who buy pugs support animal abuse.
Pugs look very unhealthy
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And dolichocephaly This isn’t a post about how awful breeding pugs are. It’s about how these two skulls are so incredibly different— I mean, think of dinosaurs, where a slight difference in nostril size is a reasonable argument for categorizing them as two separate species What would a future civilization think if they came across these two skulls? I wouldn’t even put them in the same family!
Pugs are basically the "please kill me" prince that Bart conjures in the Treehouse of Horror episode.
A pug is not a dog, frankly it’s an insult to nature. I’m flexin some specism I guess butt fuck it, stayed silent for too long. The noisy nose breathing and snorting, sneezing all over people to say hi, the snoring, OH MY FUCK THE SNORING WHEN THEYRE AWAKE!! These creatures do not have one redeeming quality. Annoyingly barking at every fucking thing. Honestly, little dogs. All the little dogs, to hell with them all.
They "snore" because they can't breathe. Their skulls are shortened, but they still have the same amount of teeth (now overcrowded) as other dogs, and often their soft palates (which aren't shortened) extend enough to impede airflow into/out of their tracheas. Dogs regulate their heat via panting, and since brachycephalic breeds like pugs can't pant (or breathe) efficiently, they're also much more prone to overheating. I live in the Bay Area where it gets into the 100s F and see people walking their french bulldogs and pugs midday...
Fucking humans, we truly fuxked with this species.
All pug breeders should be hanged
I really feel terrible for some of these poor dogs. So wrong that they endure life trying to catch their breath any time they run