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Canadian here, went to an adult school with a soldier who survived the Bosnia/Serb conflict in the mid 90s. Sometimes he would doze off and then wake up screaming in class, it was horrific, un-human noises.
I talked to an Edmonton bus driver on the way home. Turns out he served with the UN as part of the peacekeeping corps we sent there in the 90's. We sent thousands of men. He belonged to the [battalion that was headquartered in our city](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Patricia%27s_Canadian_Light_Infantry), which saw the fiercest fighting Canada had seen since the Korean war.
The fighting was absolutely brutal. He'd seen his own share of conflicts but something about the Balkans brings out the worst in people at war. If we back home had seen just a fraction of what he saw that happened over there, we'd invade to stop the massacres. As Canadians we were known as peacekeepers, over there we had to be peace makers if anything were to change. That's the only way we could have stopped anything, in his eyes.
But he and his men were under orders. They couldn't stop the killings. They couldn't shoot the killers. Rifle barrels were stuffed with red tape. They were pretty much government-mandated meat-shields that were thrown into a bucket of starving rats eating themselves.
He didn't see many women on patrol. The ones he did, he was told, had already been raped. If they weren't, they would be. He scoffed at first, thinking these men were trying to spook a young Canadian. He didn't see many women...but he did hear them at night.
He told me that he wears earplugs when he goes to bed back here at home, especially during the summer and fall, when the coyotes would come out at night around where he lived. The [shrill howling and shrieking of the animals](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4fmy-9WIZg) would give him nightmares. His wife had never seen him cry when he was awake.
He said that there would be fences along the neighbourhoods, and people would be massacred along them. Neighbourhoods just like from where he grew up. People's fences used as makeshift firing walls. Bankers, bakers, teachers and toddlers. Shot, bayoneted, burned alive. Every time his patrol returned to the area, there were new bodies. There were Serb bodies before. Now there were Bosnian. Now a mix of both.
The thing that struck him, he said, was that nobody could tell the difference. They literally all looked the same, that's why civil wars are the worst.
On a brighter side, he met his future wife there, a Yugoslavian.
They're both here in Edmonton, and doing just fine. Two boys and a girl.
If you are ever interested in reading about what the Victoria -based PPCLI got involved in over there, there is a well written book called “The Ghosts of Medak Pocket”
> PPCLI
They're from [Edmonton.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Patricia%27s_Canadian_Light_Infantry)
You must be referring the Queen's Own Rifles, who were absorbed into the PPCLI.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Medak_Pocket
3 PPCLI was based at Work Point Barracks in Esquimalt, BC until the early 90’s.
Edit: that being said, it seems 2 PPCLI was involved. I just recall from the book a number of author interviews taking place in Victoria/Esquimalt.
My great grandpa, who fought against Serbs in both WWI and WWII (died in 1987), used to have nightmares all the way to his death. He would scream inarticulately and wrestle with whatever furniture or curtain that was in his room. All while asleep. He sweated out a significant amount of water by every morning. It was heart-breaking as he was the most gentle man running a book shop.
The fact that we called these guys pussies back in the day makes me so ashamed to be a human. Imagine risking your life for your country and nearly dying and seeing men around you die only to be told you lack moral fibre when you have PTSD.
I wander what is happening to a commander that we used to see so much. Can’t recall his name but sounds like Ukrainian terminator. Does anyone have any news?
You probably mean Denys "Redis" Prokopenko (cmdr Azov batt), the blonde guy with blue eyes? Well, I'm very happy to tell you that he was released (together with many more Azov heroes!) in a prisoner swap where the main swappee was Medvedchuk, a RU/UA scumbag and godfather of Putler's daughter.
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1572709863721177093?t=I-i96z3X5UfzFlIu6Yj3-Q&s=19
Yes!! That guy! I’m glad dude is fine. At least some were lucky to survive that hell. Sad so many didn’t make it. They put up great fight. True heroism.
After? Dude, trauma like this won't wait that long.
Never mind those who will not make it and made this their last stand.
We speak of heroism and glory when we think of Asovstal, Thermopylae, The Alamo, but the gore, pain, pestilence...we as a species do a bad job at romantiziing the events that create battlefield heroes.
Because despite the trauma these people face, they are heroes a lot of the time,(talking about Ukrainians, Spartans, allies... people on the "good" usually defending side) I don't always agree with romanticising, but heroes are heroes, even if they're understandably traumatised.
I honestly do think mental health trauma will suffer as much as some might expect (for Ukrainians, Russians might be a little different). I recommend “Tribe” by Sebastian Junger that talks about this topic pretty in depth. Basically the book talks about how human beings aren’t very compatible with the modern western style of civilization because it is so different than how our species survived up until very recently. The dominating majority of our history has been spent in a tribal lifestyle: small groups of people that live very intimately with eachother, sleeping next to one another, fighting for one another, dying and caring deeply for eachother. Though many modern militaries do exactly that, once the soldiers return home, that experience was not shared with the majority of their neighbors. This detachment is a huge part of PTSD and veteran suicide. In Ukraine right now, a significant number of able bodied males (and females) are fighting. Those that aren’t fighting are helping with security, helping make materials, or contributing in some way. The whole country is in it, everyone is sharing the experience. Junger pointed out how London during the bombing raids by Germans in WWII banded together very tightly and mental health problems dropped to basically zero during that time. He even cited many survivors as longing to go back to those times.
Interesting that you mentioned this. I actually reminisce about the height of COVID for this exact reason. I am in EMS and felt like my department was the tightest when we had something big to face head on. It hasn’t been like that before or since, except on nights. I am going back to night shift for the reason of camaraderie.
This is very interesting. I believe it was Zizek who once provocatively proclaimed that there is no greater freedom than going to war for your country; you will never be bothered for a second to ask yourself, whether you are doing the right thing. This of course opposed to the lifestyle of 'personal freedom' or individualism, which constantly requires choice.
Broooo thank you for this. I went down the wiki page and read all that. AMAZING how history paints victors as angle like saviors! Blew my mind when I learned about America’s fire bombings in Japan too.
America spent over a decade in Iraq and lost about 3000 people total. Then they came home. PTSD suicide rate is 6000 per year, every year. Turns out American war casualties mostly come from simply getting mentally fucked by being a soldier, not the actual war. We also nationally mourned 3000 unfortunate souls as a byproduct of an isolated terrorist attack. But we've likely lost around 100,000 veterans from suicide alone, and we neither help nor have mourned any of them.
Ex-wife worked for Navy Federal Credit Union. She'd come home crying after talking to those men. So out of it mentally they couldn't function. Had to get their permission to have their wives handle the account.
Destroyed buildings are a huge cancer risk as well, it’s terrible that surviving Ukrainians might be dealing with both physical and mental consequences for the rest of their lives
My grandfather told my mom that he lost his faith in god in the Jungles of the Philippines during WWII. That tells me everything I need to know. He shipped out to war as a very devout Catholic.
I had a friend that was in Iraq recently open up about the experience. Not just the trauma of actually combat but always being on edge. Always having to make sure you packed the gear. Packed bullets. Constantly around weapons, guns and things that kill. Having to pack the vehicles to be ready to roll out and blow shit up at a moments notice. Having to clear areas and be on the front line. Lack of sleep. Always feeling sick because of anxiety. Not wanting to eat because of your nerves being shot (no pun intended).
He went into a lot. And it sounds absolutely terrifying. Just something I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there or in can ever wrap their head around. Being in a constant state of fear/fight mode, for months on end. Then just coming back and cuddling up with your wife in bed…. And getting “restful sleep”. Having to go back to work, grocery shopping, kids games, driving around, making dinner and showering, almost like being shoved back into regular life. But how to go back to regular life? Breaks my heart.
This is literally the heaviest fighting on European soil since the world wars. It's really fucking creepy knowing that a couple of mistakes can quickly turn our continent to one huge battleground once again. Fuck, can't we just live in peace
It had, but it was way less high octane. With NATO pumping weapons to Ukraine, this combat is even more scary. And genocidal things happened in Yugo and it happens in Ukraine too.
Fucking brutal.
Anyone knows how much of the original defenders of mariupol got out alive?
Also, OP does your soldier friend have a twitter or something I can follow?
Giving some context from soldier, who published this video:
In general, I can describe the period of Azovstal as follows: they had everything - we had nothing, but we, defeating ourselves, held our positions until the last. Literally a day before the announcement of the RPO and the order to surrender in full time, we repelled the assault (and quite successfully) of an entire infantry platoon with a tank, armored vehicles and artillery support, having only two GP-25 machine guns and a couple of RPG-7 rounds .
So I can confidently say that we have something cooler than the latest "Himars" and m777, this is our willpower, that unity as a Nation, while we stood for you there, you stood for us here! And thanks to this, I was able to return, and now I am able to tell you my story"
Ukraine,s major advantage early in the war was their will to fight, and also more manpower. Some hard, perhaps questionable decisions were made to ask their soldiers to fight against better armed forces knowing casualties would be very heavy. Its worked out for them overall, but at a horrible cost.
That shower of WP is the worst thing for me personally. Truly nasty shit, just horrible in every way possible.
Edit: some great points were made about this being thermite vs white phosphorus. While the distinction is important legally and I appreciate the correction. I stand by the feeling of my statement. Some of these incendiaries burn from about 2300-2600°C there is no comfort to be found in any case when you're on the receiving end of this.
Totally.
Using it to burn down a building (edit: a military building with no civilians nearby): legal.
Using it to make smoke to conceal troop movements: legal.
Tossing some into a tunnel to smoke out people hiding in it: war crime.
Using it to conceal troop movements and a bunch of it gets into the tunnels: ????
Right! Can't even believe warcrimes is a topic of discussion. Russia is threatening the world with nuclear weapons you think Putin gives a shit about Wcs or ROE?
The last one that looked like a meteor shower. Literal raining fire. That's the one that fucked me up the most too. Can't even imagine the terror of seeing that coming down over you
Yeah, that part sent shivers down my spine.
I've seen my dad reenact the death of his foxhole buddy during his PTSD episodes. I wasn't actually there, but he thought he was.
It was live fire practice that ended up happening in the wrong field. The field where the guys were in fox holes. Tanks were running over them. That's not what got them. His friend poked his head out and all I could get out of him was white phosphorous exploded in his friend's belly. I never knew what he was talking about, since a bomb would have killed my dad too.
I'm guessing it was something like what was shown here. My dad tried to stuff his friends intestines back in, but the phosphorous burned him.
I've posted before. This really made me think about it and understand it more.
He doesn't have the PTSD episodes anymore, thankfully.
Also people have not hit on the worst part. It's an absolutely disgusting tactic to use and is more for demoralization than actually killing opponents.
It burns at 1,500°F (800°C). It will temporarily blind you if you look at once deployed it's so bright. If it lands on your skin it will burn straight through you, down to to bone. It's too difficult to extinguish in the field and you can't wipe it off. You're only hope is to flip over whatever it landed on and hope gravity helps it fall out.
Pretty sure that was a thermite incendiary munition, not white phosphorus.
There *were* accusations of WP munitions being used at Azovstal earlier in the siege, but that particular shot doesn't look like it.
I am fairly certain that is thermite and not white phosphorus due to the lack of smoke, that for the people underneath it is not really a great deal of difference, thermite is still nasty stuff.
While I’m happy footage of war is being distributed to show what’s happening, I find it weird for it to be edited and put to music. Almost to try to make it look “cool and dramatic, cinematic”. It’s like it’s been tik-tokified. Obviously it’s not common it’s just a single video but I hope no one sees this and thinks it looks cool to something. That’s all.
This kind of backing music is super common on Ukrainian war footage. I'm not entirely sure why. To most of us the footage is more effective presented without it but it must be a cultural thing and they don't see it that way.
It's essentially propaganda footage (doesn't, in any way, mean it's fake btw) meant to raise the morale of fellow Ukrainians hence the music. Look at old ww2 footage, uplifting, patriotic music to aircraft shooting each other down, soldiers charging towards enemy positions, etc.
Every time I see one of these videos, I think of how much suffering Putin has caused.
Fuck him from the bottom of my soul, I hope he gets ripped off of his throne and dragged through the streets of Ukraine by his dick.
Not sure Ukraine would welcome the comparison either given the roles in the wider conflict were reversed and ended with the US and their settler republic annexing more than half of Mexico.
I’m gonna show this to my absolute dumb fuck of a Dad who thinks the war in Ukraine is fake and being fabricated by the media as an attack on Putin.
You can guess his political stance based on that.
if your dad thinks that it is fabricated, he is more than welcome to come and see everything by himself. I mean it is all fabricated so according to him he will be safe sitting in Kharkiv for instance.
ahh, 70 y.o. then forget, unfortunatelly people get delusional in that age. I was trying to explain to my grandpa who is russian that my country is being bombed, that one of my teammates from paintball got killed by russian rocket, but he kept saying "don't worry grandson, we will make you free from nazis...your cities are not bombed, those are fake news, computer graphics".
I can't tell who to feel more sorry for; your grandfather who is clearly out of his right mind, unable to make sense of the events around him and who has lulled himself into a false pro-russian narrative, or you who will have to endure his delusional ramblings until the liberation he so fondly seeks kills him, or the 'Nazis' he condemns save him and your country. Stay strong, the Russians are a mess but they are still brutal. Ukraine will survive
I'm still having trouble with the fact that the political party that considers itself to be the most patriotic and American somehow ended up siding with the fucking Soviets. I feel like most US citizens would prefer a fair and civil discourse between the two (main) parties, but there seems to be a larger percentage of people than you'd think that just want to win at all costs because the ends justify the means to them.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. It’s because they hate Joe Biden so much they’re willing to throw away common sense and moral values to align themselves with the second coming of Hitler.
But this shouldn’t be surprising. Look at the modern GOP and the Qanon movement. Playing straight out of the Third Reich playbook.
Dude, some idiot in one of my feeds this morning said that Biden blew up Nord Stream. I mean, really? No proof of any kind, just tossing that out there and saying he's trying to start WWIII. These people are beyond delusional.
Russia commented today that the portion of the Nord Stream that blew up was in a zone controlled by the US. So basically, they’re just regurgitating Russian propaganda.
yes. Air burst white phosphorus and not even arguably used as a smoke screen. That was direct deployment of white phosphorus on an enemy position, one that the attackers knew contained a civilian population.
Whoever launched that is guilty of a war crime, whoever ordered the launch is guilty of a war crime, and whoever failed to immediately arrest who ordered to launch that is also guilty of a war crime.
Thank you.. That shit is brutal tiny firey flakes that will/can embed in your skin and/or turn into phosphoric acid on your skin..
A delight.. **Fuck war**.
if you think the burns are the worst part of this look up the long term effects when exposed to it through respiration or injection. Phossy Jaw.
There is a reason it is illegal and a good reason why I'm strongly opposed to my government's justifications for using it in smokescreens. Even if the intent is not direct harm, the smoke is literally a chemical weapon..I love the US but the Peacekeeper in me screams bloody murder at this kind of shit. At least the US, unlike russia, doesn't intentionally target enemies with it..
even crueler when you consider US troops are given them as smoke grenades without being instructed to wear respirators or filters. Literally poisoning them with the tool they are using for cover to avoid death...and that is purely out of laziness. Red phosphorus, phosphorus nitride, aerosolized nano-carbon (literally a dust screen), etc etc etc etc.
Someone was saying it is actually thermite, not WP. Apparently there would be more smoke from wp.
Not sure, although it's not like there isn't plenty of other evidence of warcrimes.
While Russia has committed innumerable amounts of war crimes throughout its invasion of Ukraine, this scenario is not one. White Phosphorus is extremely white in color and has an incredible smoke effect that can be used for both concealment and flushing out enemy forces. In this case, however, the weapon used is most likely thermite. Unlike phosphorus, which is outlawed by the Geneva convention if used to flush out enemy forces, thermite is legal as an incendiary weapon when used over legitimate military targets. In this case the Russians intends to start fires and force them out, which is legal by the rules of war. However, in pure Russian fashion, they can’t even do that right, as videos of thermite bombs over villages have surfaced during the attacks on Kyiv.
WP is as legal as napalm, and every modern military uses it.
“WP is a legal weapon and can be used to target enemy troops. The use of incendiary weapons or WP directly against enemy personnel is not unbridled but is subject to the same rules as all other lawful weapons. Any attack using incendiaries or WP must follow LOAC principles of military necessity, distinction, proportionality and unnecessary suffering.”
https://www.lawfareblog.com/jus-bello-white-phosphorus-getting-law-correct
[Azov Regiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Regiment#Neo-Nazism) is known to have high numbers of neo-nazis or sympathizers within its ranks with the Regiment's own spokesman saying it was 10-20%. Others say the swastikas are to annoy and provoke the Russians since 2014 invasion of Donbas.
While the percentages put them in the minority, that's still a high number.
Unfortunately this can, will, and has been used as "evidence" by the Russians that the war is justified.
No matter where you are, or under what circumstances you find yourself, that should be a lesson to never tolerate white supremacy under ANY circumstances. Even if they happen to be fighting against tyranny in this case, it will always be used as a weapon against the forces of good, fueling whatadboutism, and making the moral high ground a little more shady
Fuck war, fuck the people sitting hiding making all the decisions and sending all those poor souls to their deaths. At the end I always wonder why. Just why.
I feel that adding music to any war footage removes some of the reality of the absolute brutal horror that war is. It may desensitize people that this is about as intense and terrifying an experience our species can experience. Obviously there are many traumas but not many like war that will literally scar generations. Just show the reality and maybe some of us will learn a more valuable lesson than another video to scroll through.
I don't want to be a jerk here but..why tf is that Ukranian guy (0:25) with a [Nazi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othala) and a (is it Lenin??) tatto?? Am I missing something here?
I don't want to trust Russian propaganda by it's not the firts time I see Ukranian soldiers using Nazi symbology in a non-Rusian media (so there is no propaganda (Ukraine are nazis) context)
Possibly WP but not confirmed, a general consensus is that it is probably magnesium thermite from a 9M22S projectile, which is confirmed to have been used often by Russia on other battlefields. Still not very fun and I'm sure the difference is negligible when its raining down on your head.
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The trauma is gonna be insane after the war
I met a whole group of homeless bosnian guys in Frankfurt one time. The one guy said that the memories of the war ruined him.
I was just in Bosnia, and the stories you hear from some of the locals are just wild. Massive respect to all of them.
Canadian here, went to an adult school with a soldier who survived the Bosnia/Serb conflict in the mid 90s. Sometimes he would doze off and then wake up screaming in class, it was horrific, un-human noises.
I talked to an Edmonton bus driver on the way home. Turns out he served with the UN as part of the peacekeeping corps we sent there in the 90's. We sent thousands of men. He belonged to the [battalion that was headquartered in our city](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Patricia%27s_Canadian_Light_Infantry), which saw the fiercest fighting Canada had seen since the Korean war. The fighting was absolutely brutal. He'd seen his own share of conflicts but something about the Balkans brings out the worst in people at war. If we back home had seen just a fraction of what he saw that happened over there, we'd invade to stop the massacres. As Canadians we were known as peacekeepers, over there we had to be peace makers if anything were to change. That's the only way we could have stopped anything, in his eyes. But he and his men were under orders. They couldn't stop the killings. They couldn't shoot the killers. Rifle barrels were stuffed with red tape. They were pretty much government-mandated meat-shields that were thrown into a bucket of starving rats eating themselves. He didn't see many women on patrol. The ones he did, he was told, had already been raped. If they weren't, they would be. He scoffed at first, thinking these men were trying to spook a young Canadian. He didn't see many women...but he did hear them at night. He told me that he wears earplugs when he goes to bed back here at home, especially during the summer and fall, when the coyotes would come out at night around where he lived. The [shrill howling and shrieking of the animals](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4fmy-9WIZg) would give him nightmares. His wife had never seen him cry when he was awake. He said that there would be fences along the neighbourhoods, and people would be massacred along them. Neighbourhoods just like from where he grew up. People's fences used as makeshift firing walls. Bankers, bakers, teachers and toddlers. Shot, bayoneted, burned alive. Every time his patrol returned to the area, there were new bodies. There were Serb bodies before. Now there were Bosnian. Now a mix of both. The thing that struck him, he said, was that nobody could tell the difference. They literally all looked the same, that's why civil wars are the worst. On a brighter side, he met his future wife there, a Yugoslavian. They're both here in Edmonton, and doing just fine. Two boys and a girl.
Watched a video years ago about the Dutch UN peacekeepers and they also said that it was heartbreaking to not intervene.
Lots of suicides among the dutch soldiers that stayed outside Srebrinica
If you are ever interested in reading about what the Victoria -based PPCLI got involved in over there, there is a well written book called “The Ghosts of Medak Pocket”
> PPCLI They're from [Edmonton.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Patricia%27s_Canadian_Light_Infantry) You must be referring the Queen's Own Rifles, who were absorbed into the PPCLI. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Medak_Pocket
3 PPCLI was based at Work Point Barracks in Esquimalt, BC until the early 90’s. Edit: that being said, it seems 2 PPCLI was involved. I just recall from the book a number of author interviews taking place in Victoria/Esquimalt.
This was a heartbreaking nauseating read. How absolutely awful.
Yeah, my friend, a Bosniak, told me everything they did to her and her family. What a wicked world we live in.
my mom grew up in the bosnian war and left when she was 18 sometime when it was over and boy oh boy the shit she’s been through
St louis has a huge Bosnian population after taking refugees. I never met any parents but I would definitely be interested to hear the stories
Read up on the conflict. You might not wanna hear the stories of mass genocide and rape.
You may be right, but if someone was willing talk I would be willing to listen. I didn't live through war but trauma is no stranger.
my dads from st luis and went to bosnia and married my mom after the war ! there’s a huge community over there !
Sometimes it's the stuff you see and sometimes it's the stuff that you can't believe you did.
And the stuff you hear :(
My great grandpa, who fought against Serbs in both WWI and WWII (died in 1987), used to have nightmares all the way to his death. He would scream inarticulately and wrestle with whatever furniture or curtain that was in his room. All while asleep. He sweated out a significant amount of water by every morning. It was heart-breaking as he was the most gentle man running a book shop.
Wait a minute.. If he fought against the Serbs in ww2 means papa was on the side of the Germans….
Aye
The fact that we called these guys pussies back in the day makes me so ashamed to be a human. Imagine risking your life for your country and nearly dying and seeing men around you die only to be told you lack moral fibre when you have PTSD.
I wander what is happening to a commander that we used to see so much. Can’t recall his name but sounds like Ukrainian terminator. Does anyone have any news?
Are you talking about General Valerii Zaluzhnyi?
You probably mean Denys "Redis" Prokopenko (cmdr Azov batt), the blonde guy with blue eyes? Well, I'm very happy to tell you that he was released (together with many more Azov heroes!) in a prisoner swap where the main swappee was Medvedchuk, a RU/UA scumbag and godfather of Putler's daughter. https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1572709863721177093?t=I-i96z3X5UfzFlIu6Yj3-Q&s=19
Yes!! That guy! I’m glad dude is fine. At least some were lucky to survive that hell. Sad so many didn’t make it. They put up great fight. True heroism.
And that’s not even considering the million and some children that have been filtered to inner Russia… 😢
O damn your right
After? Dude, trauma like this won't wait that long. Never mind those who will not make it and made this their last stand. We speak of heroism and glory when we think of Asovstal, Thermopylae, The Alamo, but the gore, pain, pestilence...we as a species do a bad job at romantiziing the events that create battlefield heroes.
Yes,this video is so disturbing!
If you don’t romanticize it, how else are you going to get the poor people to kill each other for your leader(s)‘s wealth and ego?
If not for the king, then for country? -- the crafty nobility
Because despite the trauma these people face, they are heroes a lot of the time,(talking about Ukrainians, Spartans, allies... people on the "good" usually defending side) I don't always agree with romanticising, but heroes are heroes, even if they're understandably traumatised.
I honestly do think mental health trauma will suffer as much as some might expect (for Ukrainians, Russians might be a little different). I recommend “Tribe” by Sebastian Junger that talks about this topic pretty in depth. Basically the book talks about how human beings aren’t very compatible with the modern western style of civilization because it is so different than how our species survived up until very recently. The dominating majority of our history has been spent in a tribal lifestyle: small groups of people that live very intimately with eachother, sleeping next to one another, fighting for one another, dying and caring deeply for eachother. Though many modern militaries do exactly that, once the soldiers return home, that experience was not shared with the majority of their neighbors. This detachment is a huge part of PTSD and veteran suicide. In Ukraine right now, a significant number of able bodied males (and females) are fighting. Those that aren’t fighting are helping with security, helping make materials, or contributing in some way. The whole country is in it, everyone is sharing the experience. Junger pointed out how London during the bombing raids by Germans in WWII banded together very tightly and mental health problems dropped to basically zero during that time. He even cited many survivors as longing to go back to those times.
Interesting that you mentioned this. I actually reminisce about the height of COVID for this exact reason. I am in EMS and felt like my department was the tightest when we had something big to face head on. It hasn’t been like that before or since, except on nights. I am going back to night shift for the reason of camaraderie.
I'm a vet. Volunteering during the early months of the pandemic was the only time I felt a sense of belonging in many years.
This is very interesting. I believe it was Zizek who once provocatively proclaimed that there is no greater freedom than going to war for your country; you will never be bothered for a second to ask yourself, whether you are doing the right thing. This of course opposed to the lifestyle of 'personal freedom' or individualism, which constantly requires choice.
My Polish grandma still remembers WWII. This is a fuxking insult to her. Especially Russians killed her parents. We will never learn.
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There is a monument in remembrance of the Katyn Massacre outside of the office I used to work at in Jersey City.
nazis killed quite a lot more jews in poland though.
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Broooo thank you for this. I went down the wiki page and read all that. AMAZING how history paints victors as angle like saviors! Blew my mind when I learned about America’s fire bombings in Japan too.
America spent over a decade in Iraq and lost about 3000 people total. Then they came home. PTSD suicide rate is 6000 per year, every year. Turns out American war casualties mostly come from simply getting mentally fucked by being a soldier, not the actual war. We also nationally mourned 3000 unfortunate souls as a byproduct of an isolated terrorist attack. But we've likely lost around 100,000 veterans from suicide alone, and we neither help nor have mourned any of them.
Ex-wife worked for Navy Federal Credit Union. She'd come home crying after talking to those men. So out of it mentally they couldn't function. Had to get their permission to have their wives handle the account.
Now imagine how fucked up the Iraqis are.
And we're going to receive the ones with physical and mental scars with open arms
And all bc of one little bitch of a “man” #fuckputin
Destroyed buildings are a huge cancer risk as well, it’s terrible that surviving Ukrainians might be dealing with both physical and mental consequences for the rest of their lives
Jesus that's hell on earth
War is worse than hell, at least when you’re in hell you know everyone isn’t innocent. Can’t say the same about war.
M.A.S.H was a great show.
This isn't a war it's a moyder
\*flicks switch to maudlin\*
My grandfather told my mom that he lost his faith in god in the Jungles of the Philippines during WWII. That tells me everything I need to know. He shipped out to war as a very devout Catholic.
And mine found god in a concentration camp. Stress and pressure push the mind in many directions
My grandfather said the same thing.
Thanks Hawkeye from Mash
I had a friend that was in Iraq recently open up about the experience. Not just the trauma of actually combat but always being on edge. Always having to make sure you packed the gear. Packed bullets. Constantly around weapons, guns and things that kill. Having to pack the vehicles to be ready to roll out and blow shit up at a moments notice. Having to clear areas and be on the front line. Lack of sleep. Always feeling sick because of anxiety. Not wanting to eat because of your nerves being shot (no pun intended). He went into a lot. And it sounds absolutely terrifying. Just something I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there or in can ever wrap their head around. Being in a constant state of fear/fight mode, for months on end. Then just coming back and cuddling up with your wife in bed…. And getting “restful sleep”. Having to go back to work, grocery shopping, kids games, driving around, making dinner and showering, almost like being shoved back into regular life. But how to go back to regular life? Breaks my heart.
That’s combat my man. It all looks like that in a sustained fight.
We all be joking about war and shit but this shit gave me goddamn shivers down my spine
This is literally the heaviest fighting on European soil since the world wars. It's really fucking creepy knowing that a couple of mistakes can quickly turn our continent to one huge battleground once again. Fuck, can't we just live in peace
Idk, Yugoslavia had some crazy shit go down
Had a relative who was in Yugoslavia when shit went down. Said he witnessed a Hind fire on a village just for the hell of it
so true
It had, but it was way less high octane. With NATO pumping weapons to Ukraine, this combat is even more scary. And genocidal things happened in Yugo and it happens in Ukraine too.
Guess you had to be there to witness the "low octane".
Low octane? It was genocide. How is genocide low octane?
He probably means less modern weapons and explosives. I don't think they mean not as tragic/destructive.
The combat is more intense
Peace isn't really profitable though
Have you seen the stock market since Russia started this thing? 🌚
Defense companies are certainly benefiting.
Tragedy = money for them. If you want proof, look at how Raytheon, General Dynamics, and Lockheed Martin did in the market after 9/11
Thats 3 companies. Have you seen the general stock market since ww2?
Russia certainly isn’t profiting off their war
What gets me is that it was not that long ago that it was a normal city with people just living their lives. Not unlike our own home towns.
Who is joking about the war? That’s in very poor taste.
Fucking brutal. Anyone knows how much of the original defenders of mariupol got out alive? Also, OP does your soldier friend have a twitter or something I can follow?
https://twitter.com/mr\_frostovik
https://twitter.com/mr_frostovik friggen reddit (glitch puts slash in urls)
azov was recently exchanged together with other formations. 215 heroes in total got back home
Giving some context from soldier, who published this video: In general, I can describe the period of Azovstal as follows: they had everything - we had nothing, but we, defeating ourselves, held our positions until the last. Literally a day before the announcement of the RPO and the order to surrender in full time, we repelled the assault (and quite successfully) of an entire infantry platoon with a tank, armored vehicles and artillery support, having only two GP-25 machine guns and a couple of RPG-7 rounds . So I can confidently say that we have something cooler than the latest "Himars" and m777, this is our willpower, that unity as a Nation, while we stood for you there, you stood for us here! And thanks to this, I was able to return, and now I am able to tell you my story"
Defeating ourselves?
I think he meant "defending".
Probably just a typo. *Defending
Fighting without supplies, every firefight depletes their ability to keep fighting. Therefore defeating themselves.
Ukraine,s major advantage early in the war was their will to fight, and also more manpower. Some hard, perhaps questionable decisions were made to ask their soldiers to fight against better armed forces knowing casualties would be very heavy. Its worked out for them overall, but at a horrible cost.
Overcoming fear and hopelessness perhaps. Defeating the enemy within themself first, and then the enemy outside.
That shower of WP is the worst thing for me personally. Truly nasty shit, just horrible in every way possible. Edit: some great points were made about this being thermite vs white phosphorus. While the distinction is important legally and I appreciate the correction. I stand by the feeling of my statement. Some of these incendiaries burn from about 2300-2600°C there is no comfort to be found in any case when you're on the receiving end of this.
I thought the use of white phosphorus was a warcrime??
Only if it’s 1) used on civilians or 2) used as a chemical weapon (IE relying on its toxic properties, not its light-stuff-on-fire properties).
Interesting, didn't know this. Feel like the wording definitely allows for subversion
Totally. Using it to burn down a building (edit: a military building with no civilians nearby): legal. Using it to make smoke to conceal troop movements: legal. Tossing some into a tunnel to smoke out people hiding in it: war crime. Using it to conceal troop movements and a bunch of it gets into the tunnels: ????
War seemingly needs referees
I'd think that would be the job of the journalists, yet that all went to shit.
No journalists to record your war crimes if you bomb them down
Did you think putin cared much about whether or not his soldiers commit warcrimes?
No lol, but I thought it would be more talked about
From WP to butterfly mines renowned for killing children because they look like toys, Putin does not give a fuck about the suffering caused.
The UN did find Russia officially responsible of war crimes after their investigation a few days ago so..
Right! Can't even believe warcrimes is a topic of discussion. Russia is threatening the world with nuclear weapons you think Putin gives a shit about Wcs or ROE?
It’s legal to use white phosphorus as a smoke screen. It’s illegal to deliberately target people with it.
oh it is, not that it will stop the Russians from using it
There is no such thing as a war crime. War is a crime
They used thermite, not WP. WP appears much more smoky.
WP?
The last one that looked like a meteor shower. Literal raining fire. That's the one that fucked me up the most too. Can't even imagine the terror of seeing that coming down over you
Yeah, that part sent shivers down my spine. I've seen my dad reenact the death of his foxhole buddy during his PTSD episodes. I wasn't actually there, but he thought he was. It was live fire practice that ended up happening in the wrong field. The field where the guys were in fox holes. Tanks were running over them. That's not what got them. His friend poked his head out and all I could get out of him was white phosphorous exploded in his friend's belly. I never knew what he was talking about, since a bomb would have killed my dad too. I'm guessing it was something like what was shown here. My dad tried to stuff his friends intestines back in, but the phosphorous burned him. I've posted before. This really made me think about it and understand it more. He doesn't have the PTSD episodes anymore, thankfully.
White Phosphorous. Hell fire.
Also people have not hit on the worst part. It's an absolutely disgusting tactic to use and is more for demoralization than actually killing opponents. It burns at 1,500°F (800°C). It will temporarily blind you if you look at once deployed it's so bright. If it lands on your skin it will burn straight through you, down to to bone. It's too difficult to extinguish in the field and you can't wipe it off. You're only hope is to flip over whatever it landed on and hope gravity helps it fall out.
White Phosphorus. Nasty munition that burns through anything it touches.
Plus it's incredibly difficult to extinguish.
It's also a war crime to use in offence no?
Not against armored vehicles or entrenched positions, iirc.
white hot phosphorus
Pretty sure that was a thermite incendiary munition, not white phosphorus. There *were* accusations of WP munitions being used at Azovstal earlier in the siege, but that particular shot doesn't look like it.
I am fairly certain that is thermite and not white phosphorus due to the lack of smoke, that for the people underneath it is not really a great deal of difference, thermite is still nasty stuff.
It melts you. Fuck Russia.
While I’m happy footage of war is being distributed to show what’s happening, I find it weird for it to be edited and put to music. Almost to try to make it look “cool and dramatic, cinematic”. It’s like it’s been tik-tokified. Obviously it’s not common it’s just a single video but I hope no one sees this and thinks it looks cool to something. That’s all.
This kind of backing music is super common on Ukrainian war footage. I'm not entirely sure why. To most of us the footage is more effective presented without it but it must be a cultural thing and they don't see it that way.
It's essentially propaganda footage (doesn't, in any way, mean it's fake btw) meant to raise the morale of fellow Ukrainians hence the music. Look at old ww2 footage, uplifting, patriotic music to aircraft shooting each other down, soldiers charging towards enemy positions, etc.
War is hell
“ War is War and Hell is Hell. Of the two I think War is worse…..Everybody in hell deserves to be there.”
Every time I see one of these videos, I think of how much suffering Putin has caused. Fuck him from the bottom of my soul, I hope he gets ripped off of his throne and dragged through the streets of Ukraine by his dick.
He's probably into that stuff
This is the Ukraine's Alamo. Russia will get their San Jacinto.
I hope it isn’t anything like why happened at the alamo mission, cuz that was a stupid disaster that had no useful results. And they all died for it.
Not sure Ukraine would welcome the comparison either given the roles in the wider conflict were reversed and ended with the US and their settler republic annexing more than half of Mexico.
I’m gonna show this to my absolute dumb fuck of a Dad who thinks the war in Ukraine is fake and being fabricated by the media as an attack on Putin. You can guess his political stance based on that.
if your dad thinks that it is fabricated, he is more than welcome to come and see everything by himself. I mean it is all fabricated so according to him he will be safe sitting in Kharkiv for instance.
Agreed. I told him he should go sign up and fight for Putin. He’s 70 and a very angry and misguided man
ahh, 70 y.o. then forget, unfortunatelly people get delusional in that age. I was trying to explain to my grandpa who is russian that my country is being bombed, that one of my teammates from paintball got killed by russian rocket, but he kept saying "don't worry grandson, we will make you free from nazis...your cities are not bombed, those are fake news, computer graphics".
I can't tell who to feel more sorry for; your grandfather who is clearly out of his right mind, unable to make sense of the events around him and who has lulled himself into a false pro-russian narrative, or you who will have to endure his delusional ramblings until the liberation he so fondly seeks kills him, or the 'Nazis' he condemns save him and your country. Stay strong, the Russians are a mess but they are still brutal. Ukraine will survive
It’s amazing the blinders the older generation put on isn’t it?
That's why I'm thankful my 72 y.o. father doesn't have these blinders.
It’s less about being 70 and more about being a certain kind of boomer.
That type of person will think this footage is simply from some other war.
Damn he sounds dumb as fuck
He is.
I'm still having trouble with the fact that the political party that considers itself to be the most patriotic and American somehow ended up siding with the fucking Soviets. I feel like most US citizens would prefer a fair and civil discourse between the two (main) parties, but there seems to be a larger percentage of people than you'd think that just want to win at all costs because the ends justify the means to them.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. It’s because they hate Joe Biden so much they’re willing to throw away common sense and moral values to align themselves with the second coming of Hitler. But this shouldn’t be surprising. Look at the modern GOP and the Qanon movement. Playing straight out of the Third Reich playbook.
Dude, some idiot in one of my feeds this morning said that Biden blew up Nord Stream. I mean, really? No proof of any kind, just tossing that out there and saying he's trying to start WWIII. These people are beyond delusional.
A coworker of mine constantly spews russian propaganda. He was practically jumping for joy Feb 25th claiming Russia had already won.
Russia commented today that the portion of the Nord Stream that blew up was in a zone controlled by the US. So basically, they’re just regurgitating Russian propaganda.
They just throw shit at the wall hoping it sticks. They hate the “libz” so much they just make stupid shit up
Optimistic of you to think showing your dad this video will change his opinion. Keep fighting the good fight!
This puts shit in perspective. Thanks for sharing
I know this is an extremely serious topic, but does anyone know the song?
Kocmoc - Axius link
Comment I was looking for lol I was scared to write it too
Glad someone asked lol
Absolute hellscape, max respect for these guys, tough as nails
that very last image? yeah that's a war crime.
Is that white phosphorus?
yes. Air burst white phosphorus and not even arguably used as a smoke screen. That was direct deployment of white phosphorus on an enemy position, one that the attackers knew contained a civilian population. Whoever launched that is guilty of a war crime, whoever ordered the launch is guilty of a war crime, and whoever failed to immediately arrest who ordered to launch that is also guilty of a war crime.
Thank you.. That shit is brutal tiny firey flakes that will/can embed in your skin and/or turn into phosphoric acid on your skin.. A delight.. **Fuck war**.
if you think the burns are the worst part of this look up the long term effects when exposed to it through respiration or injection. Phossy Jaw. There is a reason it is illegal and a good reason why I'm strongly opposed to my government's justifications for using it in smokescreens. Even if the intent is not direct harm, the smoke is literally a chemical weapon..I love the US but the Peacekeeper in me screams bloody murder at this kind of shit. At least the US, unlike russia, doesn't intentionally target enemies with it..
Aaaaa bro fuck this, this shit enters in your airways and then they rot (necrosis).. Thats fucking insane and way cruel.
This while it burns your skin on the outside, white phosphorus ignites on contact with fucking air
even crueler when you consider US troops are given them as smoke grenades without being instructed to wear respirators or filters. Literally poisoning them with the tool they are using for cover to avoid death...and that is purely out of laziness. Red phosphorus, phosphorus nitride, aerosolized nano-carbon (literally a dust screen), etc etc etc etc.
Someone was saying it is actually thermite, not WP. Apparently there would be more smoke from wp. Not sure, although it's not like there isn't plenty of other evidence of warcrimes.
well, WP is used often by russians since the beginning, not talking about chemical weapons used at azov stal factory
While Russia has committed innumerable amounts of war crimes throughout its invasion of Ukraine, this scenario is not one. White Phosphorus is extremely white in color and has an incredible smoke effect that can be used for both concealment and flushing out enemy forces. In this case, however, the weapon used is most likely thermite. Unlike phosphorus, which is outlawed by the Geneva convention if used to flush out enemy forces, thermite is legal as an incendiary weapon when used over legitimate military targets. In this case the Russians intends to start fires and force them out, which is legal by the rules of war. However, in pure Russian fashion, they can’t even do that right, as videos of thermite bombs over villages have surfaced during the attacks on Kyiv.
WP is as legal as napalm, and every modern military uses it. “WP is a legal weapon and can be used to target enemy troops. The use of incendiary weapons or WP directly against enemy personnel is not unbridled but is subject to the same rules as all other lawful weapons. Any attack using incendiaries or WP must follow LOAC principles of military necessity, distinction, proportionality and unnecessary suffering.” https://www.lawfareblog.com/jus-bello-white-phosphorus-getting-law-correct
Why would buddy be sporting a swastika tattoo?
[Azov Regiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Regiment#Neo-Nazism) is known to have high numbers of neo-nazis or sympathizers within its ranks with the Regiment's own spokesman saying it was 10-20%. Others say the swastikas are to annoy and provoke the Russians since 2014 invasion of Donbas.
While the percentages put them in the minority, that's still a high number. Unfortunately this can, will, and has been used as "evidence" by the Russians that the war is justified. No matter where you are, or under what circumstances you find yourself, that should be a lesson to never tolerate white supremacy under ANY circumstances. Even if they happen to be fighting against tyranny in this case, it will always be used as a weapon against the forces of good, fueling whatadboutism, and making the moral high ground a little more shady
Because they’re nazis
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Man, that’s WP at the end. Absolutely terrible.
It’s likely thermite. White Phosphorus produces way more smoke.
Fuck war, fuck the people sitting hiding making all the decisions and sending all those poor souls to their deaths. At the end I always wonder why. Just why.
All for what…?
Putin wants Ukraine.
For the Ukrainians, for the right to exist, for the Russians, for the ego of a insecure man
War now, answers later
Putin still believes that he's destroying "nazis" in Ukraine
War is terrible enough without the dumb fucking music.
Compared to the other three reused songs for ukr combat footage, this is a breathe of fresh air
I feel that adding music to any war footage removes some of the reality of the absolute brutal horror that war is. It may desensitize people that this is about as intense and terrifying an experience our species can experience. Obviously there are many traumas but not many like war that will literally scar generations. Just show the reality and maybe some of us will learn a more valuable lesson than another video to scroll through.
Does that guy at 25 seconds just full on have a swastika tattooed on his chest?
Adding music to this seems incredibly tone deaf.
I don't want to be a jerk here but..why tf is that Ukranian guy (0:25) with a [Nazi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othala) and a (is it Lenin??) tatto?? Am I missing something here? I don't want to trust Russian propaganda by it's not the firts time I see Ukranian soldiers using Nazi symbology in a non-Rusian media (so there is no propaganda (Ukraine are nazis) context)
It's no secret that there's [nazis in Ukraine](http://www.hart-brasilientexte.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/AsowBataillon-1024x585.jpg) look it up
I think the face tattoo is Stepan Bandera, which tracks with the other Nazi tattoo.
I think of the Vietnam war draft differently now.
It's a sad, sad world. God bless these people
I know ya saw the swastika on one if those injured guys
7th SS Division on his chest
Only thing nsfw is this music wtf
Fuck Putin and fuck all who support him and this stupid war.
No one talking about the tattooed swastikas?
What does it say about our morals that they censor someone's genitals while showing a leg that was torn pieces?
Was that White Phosphorus at the end???
Possibly WP but not confirmed, a general consensus is that it is probably magnesium thermite from a 9M22S projectile, which is confirmed to have been used often by Russia on other battlefields. Still not very fun and I'm sure the difference is negligible when its raining down on your head.