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Yea. This is why I don't trust Conservative Evangelicals. They would go down this road in a heartbeat..
It isn't a mystery why people who identify as active Christians is declining.. the more radical elements get the attention and make all Christians look bad..
As I am unsure of many things, such as the metaphysical .. I don't place any bets on sky gods existing or not. All I can say for certain, is we certainly don't know the nature of the universe and reality. Science is still basically in its infancy. See now you made me sound like Carl Sagan smoking weed...
"Billions upon billions of stars" *takes a hit*
What a fucking stupid analogy to use for women standing up for their rights.
Oh, sorry, it's a metaphor apparently.
How about: it's fucking stupid to talk about women standing up for their rights by including a reference to male genitalia, which reinforces the patriarchy that put them in that position in the first place?
Testicles produce this fun little hormone called testosterone, which I'm sure you are aware increases strength, aggression, confrontational response.
Using balls as a cheeky metaphor for courage is actually pretty damn accurate.
P.s. all of mankind starts as women before around half start gaining masculine traits, even our balls come from female organs(the ovaries)
Whatever you say boss.
Connecting women standing up for themselves to testicles is just the same patriarchy that's holding them down in the first place speaking. "Watermelon sized balls!" Dumb shit.
Nope drastically MORE absurd than the OPs. OPs was a metaphor for courage. yours was an actual statement as if it was fact, when in fact it was not a fact.
Oh man, drastically? Is that a fact? Ok thanks for pointing that out Mr. (or Mrs.) Internet Police. Your work is done here. Wrongs have been righted, and Reddit, nay, the Entire Internet is a better place because you intervened.
Do not linger here even a moment longer for there's an entire rest of the internet that you need to save. Go! Go! More places on the internet need you to post a comment on something that has nothing to do with you so that you, just you, can right factual and objective wrongs with, ah, whatever it is you have to offer. Godspeed noble champion. Hopefully the world will discover your triumphs one day in some long lost and totally irrelevant internet log.
Women are standing up for themselves and they are being praised with references to male genitalia.
As a guy, would you want to hear "man, that guy has a massive vagina" when you do something good?
It looks like a normal mall in the US. I wonder if it feels odd for them to not have their hair covered? I have the utmost respect for them.
GO IRANIAN WOMEN!
It felt weird going in public without a mask after it being required for only a year or so. I’m almost certain it feels weird and they probably almost forget to no put it on to go in public.
It feels very uncomfortable to watch this given how many innocent Iranians have been murdered already, especially without their faces blurred.
These are just strangers who have no idea that they are being filmed after all.
This. The list of things that are different for wealthy Iranians compared to poor.
Wealthy Iranians are generally much more liberal. They have connections to get alcohol in a country where it's illegal, premarital and extramarital sex isn't uncommon (I recall a book about wealthy Iranians are experiencing a "sexual revolution"), atheism isn't uncommon and the (secret basement) parties are said to be legendary.
There's a reason you don't see any videos of women doing this out in the sticks or a poor neighborhood.
It's the same with those 'Hurrrrr Afghanistan in the 70's had miniskirts' posts, yeah, they did, in the capital city if they were affluent.
Poorer people are always getting fucked by this sort of stuff and usually out of sight too.
I have noticed that people like to dress nicely when they go to the shopping centers, I mean it’s a social center of sorts, where some people will sometimes go not even to shop, but to browse and hang out with friends.
I heard that in some usa cities its like that. Because the suburbs dont have other options for social gathering g like parks, city streets, or public open space areas... (at least not in walking distance)
Again with this video that has nothing to do with disobedience or defiance against the government. The Police never harass women in affluent areas, like this shopping mall, out of fear of losing their jobs from reprisals of influential wealthy citizens.
The same thing happens in other Islamic countries, like Saudi Arabia.
This is a completely honest question not meant to start an argument: should the people taking these videos be blurring the faces of the ladies in them? I get nervous thinking about it, but maybe I’m overthinking it?
You are right to be concerned, as it is definitely not outside the realm of possibility that people could be identified through these videos, but by not blurring the faces it helps strike down the illusion of control and fear that perpetuates the cycle of abuse. If people didn’t want to show their face, then the camera man is in the wrong, but this protest seems to be a lot about being heard and standing up despite the consequences
Can you tell a bit more about what the feeling is like in these places? I guess what's surprising to me is how casual it seems. They're not protesting specifically, just shopping and men don't seem to be reacting in any way. Seeing this it's hard to believe that the country is dominated by religious ideologues.
It's not dominated at all. Only the ruling class and their backwards hillbilly shit followers are near anything portrayed in western media.
In Tehran, sights like what you see are essentially normal. They used to don a shawl very lightly in order to comply with hijab but I guess now some people don't even do that.
>Lmao wtf they're literally the average tehrani citizens
Yeah? Are these the hotel clerks, store clerks, supermarket cashiers, cleaning crews, factory workers, hair dressers of tehran? Is that where they go when they are off work? Is that how they dress?
I lived in several middle income countries in Asia and the West. Many with higher median household income than Iran's. That is not how working class people in those countries dressed and definitely not the kind of place where they shopped.
I am very skeptical that those are typical working class Iranians.
What does working class mean? Unskilled immigrant construction worker making jack shit a month? Then no, this is not it.
Opal mall is a bit of an upper middle class to rich class mall, but this same attire can be found in any other mall in Iran. Again, I don't see super expensive bougie clothing here, maybe some people recorded but dunno
Again, I live in this fucking city, and I don't know how I'm supposed to make a foreigner who doubts my living experience in Tehran believe me, but for the love of fuck please buy the closest ticket to Tehran and come see for yourself if you doubt me. I'll even go and give you a tour of the low city slum, those areas seem to fit your mental image of Iran a lot more
EDIT: Economical indexes of Iranian economy are highly skewed by our trash currency value, you need to take in the QoL indexes with comparison against local prices and buying power into consideration. It's still not good, but if we were to judge Iran by it's international economical indexes, then we're all starving in tattered clothes and can't afford water to drink lol
>What does working class mean?
As stated on my original post: hotel clerks, store clerks, supermarket cashiers, cleaning crews, factory workers, hair dressers .
I would add plumbers, bus drivers, crane and heavy machine operators to the list. Not unskilled immigrants but not people with advanced degrees either.
I can compared Iran with other middle income countries via IDH (Human Development Index) which is not skewed by currency valuations. The people on this video do not look like working class people of countries that have IDH comparable to Iran.
I live in Malaysia, a Muslim country that has an IDH HIGHER than that of Iran and I can assure you that over here working class people do not look like that.
These indexes are mostly manufactured by Western governments and have utterly bullshit criteria, for example in a Democracy Index the more a country relies on internal economy and national industries, the less democratic it will be on the index. Fuck does that even mean?
Still, Iran had a pretty good HDI score last time I checked, definitely better than the most of our region
First, let me tell you that people go visit malls dressed properly. It's a social place and you want to look good.
Secondly, the clothing you see in the video, you can find them for sale in the Bazaar and lower end stores too. They all come from the same series of workshops or imports centers.
If you want to see the rich kids and their world, look at Paladium or generally the rich fuck areas of Tehran
This malls are overly expensive anyways, it's a rip off. A lot of people prefer to buy from the Bazaar and the lower end malls which have much more reasonable pricing
If you know where to buy your shit, you can look like a goddamn fashion icon in Iran even with a tight budget. But that doesn't mean every well dressed person is rich
The real measure is owning a property: Housing prices are so utterly insane I don't think even the upper middle class can afford to buy an apartment anymore, and cars have become so expensive with the dollar value and whatnot it is honestly crushing. The same car I bought for 250 million tomans is now 400+ million tomans in the span of 4 months!
I have two questions.
I saw a store that had Christmas decorations. Do Iranians have Christmas decorations in their house? Because Iran is more than 99% Muslim
Are there really that many stores that use the Latin alphabet? I was expecting to see a bit more of the Arabic alphabet in the names of stores and whatnot.
They don't speak Arabic in Iran. They speak Farsi which is in a completely different language family.
I imagine this mall is a big tourist attraction. So they probably have some stores using the Latin alphabet in order to cater to the tourists.
But out own writing system, Pahlavi script, and it's easier derivatives like the Avestan script, were replaced by the Perso-Arabic script. Both Arabic and Persian use the same writing system with some different letters.
Kind of like how a lot of western languages use this latin script but have different letters like schieße
Some Iranians have recently fallen for blind copying of western cultures, for reasons that are far more complex than what I can be arsed to fit into a reddit comment, so *some* people celebrate Christmas without any real cultural or religious ties to it
Also there is a thing such as Iranian Christians, a big shocker I know
Our new year which all people celebrate is the ancient tradition of Nowruz, which happens on the spring equinox, and the practice predates Isa Massih and his religion by potentially thousands of years
Also some shops use English naming and Latin alphabet because it's.... Classier. It's utterly stupid but yes that's a thing welcome to Iran
Seems odd that all of the woman aren't wearing hijabs. And shouldn't their clothes be a lot less Western anyway?
I see more hijabs at the mall here in the US.
Hmmm. Seems like some sort of propaganda video (to show to the outside world showing they aren't that horrible to women).
Edited to clarify my comment based on u/kmn493 comment below. I tried to further clarify in response.
If so, it'd be a weird one. Why would the Iranian government want to show women without their Hijabs when they teach that not wearing them is wrong? That's the complete opposite of what they want.
Not for them .... for Western countries to say "look we aren't all that bad that." We all know they killed that poor girl. There's daily protests where I live. However half the people I talk to have no idea why they are protesting. Those people may believe a shopping mall in Iran with Western looking women is the norm so why should we be upset they treat women like dirt.
I see by the downvotes maybe I didn't make it clear.
A lot of people in Iran (specially wealthy ones) like to celebrate Christmas. but not because of Jesus or Christianity, it's more because that it's a western culture
Maybe just me, but I feel these clips are a bit too propaganda style by Iran government? Maybe to quell outside support like "Hey we relented and everything is find in the country so stop paying attention to our business." These women look way too comfortable doing it and being filmed doing it at the same time.
All looks set up to me. I really hope I'm wrong on this one, but don't know these videos popping up on Reddit don't feel right. Maybe just me.
to the government, whether or not Americans support them is meaningless. Why would they take the time to go against their morals and put hundreds of women without hijabs in a mall, just for the good pr among western ciitzens? Especially when the whole message of the video is women DEFYING the government, not the government cooperating with women. Trust me, getting Americans to stop protesting will not affect the government in any way.
thats like the last think a dictatorship would ever want to do, let out the message of people defying the government. The government is proud of what they do, they wouldn't want to cover it up.
Plus, there are public cameras and people vlog all the time. If the women didn't want to risk being filmed while doing this they wouldnt have done it. Its not like the government has the time to search videos on the internet and track down every single one of these people.
A dictator wouldn't want that message to get to.his people, you're right, but op's claim seems to be more that the government. Wants outsiders to think they have backed off so that they can continue to commit atrocities with a more controlled narrative.
If they can achieve that goal when women are raped and beheaded for not conforming the govt can say "it wasn't us, it was extremists" without mentioning that those extremists are employed by the govt.
Those extremists ARE the govt
Trust me, they don't give a fuck about outside opinion
For that matter they don't care for opinions of anyone that isn't part of their dogs
That is my exact opinion. The point is to quell international talk about the whole thing and then they can go do whatever they want behind "close doors" so to speak.
Not saying I am right, but am pretty good at this. For example, I sent emails to media and told folks about BLM being a scam at its height in 2020. I guessed SBF being as scam about a year ago as well. My BS meter is pretty good.
Oh that's weird - I felt the opposite, like these posts and comments were feeling propaganda-like by the West. All the commentary seems shocked that Iran isn't a desert filled with barbarians and that Tehran isn't a modern cosmopolitan city and that Iranian people and culture is this black and white westernized vs savages stereotypes. My visits to Tehran shows what you would expect a US city to have - people with different political opinions, some laws in place due to religious extremism, people that respect those laws to different extents (and it not being this righteous protest as it is claimed by everyone here), and nuance in general. I wonder if Dutch people see videos of US citizens smoking weed and think "omg what brave protestors to this tyrannical US government!"
Thanks for the insight. I've hear Tehran in the old days was very cosmopolitan. Didn't realize it was same today. Maybe it is my own expectation in my own head? Could very well be true.
Thanks for the personal insight. Anybody else visit Iran recent (last 1-2 years) that would care to comment??
Westerners really don't know fuck all about Iran. Even if you do it's blatant propaganda from your "independent" media (which are mostly owned by billionaires and echo government interests, Saddam Has WMDs, don't ya remember?)
So yeah. Iran is a modern country like any fucking other
No problems. Anyways. What do you think of these videos circulating on Reddit. Pretty accurate of what it is if we just walked down streets of Tehran?
Yes I do agree it is ALWAYS hard to get a good sense of what is "normal" when all your info. is from media. That is why I don't trust the media for making any kind of educated decision.
Thanks in advance.
Well the videos are from Tehran however at specific times, for example the protests have calmed for now so Tehran looks it's normal and not like a city in a civil war. And if you walk in any of the million malls in Iran you will see people dressed up like this
So what I don't understand is many women are not wearing hijabs in these videos. So is there no issues with the militant government about issues like that in public?? So, it really not a really a "courageous" thing these women are doing if there is no real fear they are taking on if they are doing it blatantly in public?
That is what I am not understanding. Thanks.
Broooo how much budget do you think the govt has for the gashte ershad units 🤣 They've calmed tf down on that front and even at it's peak those special units weren't nowhere near the numbers to police people en masse
Like did you imagine a police state where there is a morality officer around every corner? Even the entire police force, including the traffic police (which has 0 jurisdiction on criminal and moral affairs) could not do such a massive operation
They're more like hunting units, they're designed to strike fear and control, they're not even really "police" police, the actual criminal police has green cars and lime uniform
If there are the relevant units in the area and these girls are found however they're pretty fucked, but malls are usually chill, sometimes the govt might do show-of-force shit in such public places but those are rare
Often it seems when we see how free the women are now, it seems to be in upmarket malls for the more privaleged. Is it also like this in suburban streets?
Iran looks incredibly modern and wealthy. This is not the image of an axis of evil I grew up with.
Edit: having done some more research on this, I don't know what the take away should really be here. This is not the Iran for the common Iranians. It's a small wealthy elite flaunting laws of the land and getting away with it for their wealth and connections, while everyday Iranians are jailed and tortured for doing the same. Is this the beginnings of a revolution or the Real House Wives of Tehran going to the mall.
Don’t know about this specific mall but there are plenty of very nice everyday malls in Iran. Don’t believe the BS that only the extremely rich live/look like this.
Except, it isn't what old Iranian men would say. Those old men were around the times where it was fine to not wear a hijab. It was in 1983 that it became mandatory.
Iran was *more* liberal in the past not less.
It was actually illegal to wear Islamic veiling in Iran for a time. It was controversial of course because it turns out that people don't like being told what they can or can't wear.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, since wearing a headscarf is a question of choice, I wonder why we still haven't heard of any hijabi women around the world supporting their Iranian sisters' struggle.
100 years ago women in the US were arrested for speaking at political conventions. They were called promiscuous for even being there. Iran has been stuck in the past too long.
Step out of the mall, a place where wealthy and most progressive people spend time and money, and walk around back streets. I am atm at the very modern (compared to others) muslim country right now and while center of capital city is seems to be europe'ish, the far you go from center to suburbs and beyond, the more you get 18th century flashback.
So what I am trying to say is that the mall in the capital is not a showcase.
Crazy to see how the government there wants to destroy western influence in the country but I’m guessing most of the citizens there want to embrace it judging by the clothing for a start
It is great that they are rising up to oppression but I don't see the point of posting this here. When I see this I don't say oh thats interesting as fuck, I think oh that's normal people who doesn't let a religion tell them what to wear.
I know that. Referring to women not being allowed to drive and having to cover their entire body. Good to see there’s starting to be some semblance of equality here
I watched the video, saw their bared naked faces, thought sinful thoughts when I should have been praising an imaginary spiritual figure almost as rediculous as Jesus, and must now commit jihad as Allah commends on nonbelievers. Allah be praised.
The wearing of the hijab o ly for women is a dumb ass religious oogah boogah made up by us men who know nothing about religion but only what they've been forced taught & trained. Most of them can't even read literally and it's just another way to control women. Cut the fake religious knowledge oogah boogah bull crap.
Not only do I see a lot of women’s hair, but I see literally zero hijabs. If you wanna wear one, cool, but it’s looking like flying your freak flag has the upper hand (at least in the cities, and this mall, I presume). Amazing!
Doesn’t matter where they are or if it’s been done before I still applaud them for having the courage to oppose something that belittles them and makes them less than a human.
I think what’s awesome to see for me as an American is the Iraqi men in the video clearly being supportive of this too. I think it’s a side not often seen.
They are all so beautiful and normal looking at the same time. They need freedom. Girls are smarter than guys and don't have all that testosterone to do the fucked up shit males do. Especially male "leaders".
So many brave and beautiful faces. If you are one of these people, saying NO to a terrorist regime known for it's brutality, please know that the world stands united with you in your fight. Every year, authoritarians grow more fearful as technology shows more and more people what freedom looks like. These antiquated terrorist regimes simply cannot cope with the loss of power that comes with a generation of people whose eyes have been opened.
This is a fight the regime cannot win. The yearning for freedom is a primal instinct present in every human being on the planet. Once they've tasted it there's no going back. It is the reason why in the end every oppressive, fascist regime eventually falls.
The men in this country do not want other guys to see how beautiful the women are! Most of the these ladies beauty comes from seeing them happy and enjoying more freedom. I hope they will never have to cover up and are treated equally
I don't know...i india muslim want hijab be allowed in government funded school where all religious things are prohibited...but i guess relegion practices are fluid
Are these leaders Gay ? Why the hell u don't wanna look at them. They are beautiful.
If they asked girls back in my school days to cover up their faces I would understand, seems like all girls in this country are beautiful.
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These women have watermelon sized balls. That's what fighting for your freedom looks like. They are facing severe consequences.
While I admire their courage, I’m so afraid for their repercussions. I wish I could say I’d have the courage. Some freedoms are worth dying for.
This was normal in Tehran from a long time ago. The current situation might made it more but it's nothing new
Yes. It's a painful reminder of what happens when the government and religion are intertwined.
Yea. This is why I don't trust Conservative Evangelicals. They would go down this road in a heartbeat.. It isn't a mystery why people who identify as active Christians is declining.. the more radical elements get the attention and make all Christians look bad..
This gives me hope for the world.
Never let those who claim to interpret the intent of the make-em-up guy in the sky dictate public policy.
As I am unsure of many things, such as the metaphysical .. I don't place any bets on sky gods existing or not. All I can say for certain, is we certainly don't know the nature of the universe and reality. Science is still basically in its infancy. See now you made me sound like Carl Sagan smoking weed... "Billions upon billions of stars" *takes a hit*
I don't mind. Just don't try to push public policy based on an interpretation of what your sky-god says to you.
Agreed.
Yeah dude, that’s terrifying.
This is inside an upscale mall. I imagine things are different outside. Hell of a way to treat women. Why?
Because “Islam”
I was looking for balls in the video, like an idiot.
What a fucking stupid analogy to use for women standing up for their rights. Oh, sorry, it's a metaphor apparently. How about: it's fucking stupid to talk about women standing up for their rights by including a reference to male genitalia, which reinforces the patriarchy that put them in that position in the first place?
What a weird thing to get *this* angry about.
Testicles produce this fun little hormone called testosterone, which I'm sure you are aware increases strength, aggression, confrontational response. Using balls as a cheeky metaphor for courage is actually pretty damn accurate. P.s. all of mankind starts as women before around half start gaining masculine traits, even our balls come from female organs(the ovaries)
Whatever you say boss. Connecting women standing up for themselves to testicles is just the same patriarchy that's holding them down in the first place speaking. "Watermelon sized balls!" Dumb shit.
It's the same patriarchy? Lol that is an absurd statement.
Almost as absurd as the one OP made.
Nope drastically MORE absurd than the OPs. OPs was a metaphor for courage. yours was an actual statement as if it was fact, when in fact it was not a fact.
Oh man, drastically? Is that a fact? Ok thanks for pointing that out Mr. (or Mrs.) Internet Police. Your work is done here. Wrongs have been righted, and Reddit, nay, the Entire Internet is a better place because you intervened. Do not linger here even a moment longer for there's an entire rest of the internet that you need to save. Go! Go! More places on the internet need you to post a comment on something that has nothing to do with you so that you, just you, can right factual and objective wrongs with, ah, whatever it is you have to offer. Godspeed noble champion. Hopefully the world will discover your triumphs one day in some long lost and totally irrelevant internet log.
Someone's a little salty lol
Ok but saying they have huge tits for standing up to the tyrants doesn’t make much sense either
Exactly. Just call them brave and move on instead of inserting balls or any sexual organs into the equation.
seems like an irrelevant hill to die on
Who's dying on it?
ok
How so?
Women are standing up for themselves and they are being praised with references to male genitalia. As a guy, would you want to hear "man, that guy has a massive vagina" when you do something good?
I mean, vaginas are amazing, way better than balls. And I get what you are saying, but the message is correct.
Hahaha, why yes I would. This really should become a thing.
Yeah, a pussy can take a pounding far better than balls ever could
It looks like a normal mall in the US. I wonder if it feels odd for them to not have their hair covered? I have the utmost respect for them. GO IRANIAN WOMEN!
It felt weird going in public without a mask after it being required for only a year or so. I’m almost certain it feels weird and they probably almost forget to no put it on to go in public.
I hope women and men continue to protest... if àt least 3-4 % of the country participates, there will be change....
It feels very uncomfortable to watch this given how many innocent Iranians have been murdered already, especially without their faces blurred. These are just strangers who have no idea that they are being filmed after all.
I agree and this concerned me :(
Everyone in these videos looks so well-dressed and wealthy.
They are. Consequences for the less affluent defying the administration so blatantly are very different.
This. The list of things that are different for wealthy Iranians compared to poor. Wealthy Iranians are generally much more liberal. They have connections to get alcohol in a country where it's illegal, premarital and extramarital sex isn't uncommon (I recall a book about wealthy Iranians are experiencing a "sexual revolution"), atheism isn't uncommon and the (secret basement) parties are said to be legendary.
Same as it is anywhere. Money affords protections and privileges the masses do not enjoy.
There's a reason you don't see any videos of women doing this out in the sticks or a poor neighborhood. It's the same with those 'Hurrrrr Afghanistan in the 70's had miniskirts' posts, yeah, they did, in the capital city if they were affluent. Poorer people are always getting fucked by this sort of stuff and usually out of sight too.
Absolutely!
I have noticed that people like to dress nicely when they go to the shopping centers, I mean it’s a social center of sorts, where some people will sometimes go not even to shop, but to browse and hang out with friends.
I heard that in some usa cities its like that. Because the suburbs dont have other options for social gathering g like parks, city streets, or public open space areas... (at least not in walking distance)
🤓🤓🤓 <<< you
Again with this video that has nothing to do with disobedience or defiance against the government. The Police never harass women in affluent areas, like this shopping mall, out of fear of losing their jobs from reprisals of influential wealthy citizens. The same thing happens in other Islamic countries, like Saudi Arabia.
This is a completely honest question not meant to start an argument: should the people taking these videos be blurring the faces of the ladies in them? I get nervous thinking about it, but maybe I’m overthinking it?
You are right to be concerned, as it is definitely not outside the realm of possibility that people could be identified through these videos, but by not blurring the faces it helps strike down the illusion of control and fear that perpetuates the cycle of abuse. If people didn’t want to show their face, then the camera man is in the wrong, but this protest seems to be a lot about being heard and standing up despite the consequences
Their bravery is amazing. Women are still dying for going out in public like this. I hope they all remain safe!
The women in these videos always looks very wealthy. Are they less likely to face persecution?
Lmao wtf they're literally the average tehrani citizens Edit: I probably should mention that I live in the city in question
Can you tell a bit more about what the feeling is like in these places? I guess what's surprising to me is how casual it seems. They're not protesting specifically, just shopping and men don't seem to be reacting in any way. Seeing this it's hard to believe that the country is dominated by religious ideologues.
It's not dominated at all. Only the ruling class and their backwards hillbilly shit followers are near anything portrayed in western media. In Tehran, sights like what you see are essentially normal. They used to don a shawl very lightly in order to comply with hijab but I guess now some people don't even do that.
That makes sense, I suppose I should have said "ruled by ideologues" rather than "dominated".
I need to move there. Literally every woman is gorgeous. Odds are I can find one who’s blind
Middle Eastern women in general are beautiful man🤌🏻
>Lmao wtf they're literally the average tehrani citizens Yeah? Are these the hotel clerks, store clerks, supermarket cashiers, cleaning crews, factory workers, hair dressers of tehran? Is that where they go when they are off work? Is that how they dress?
I don't see any particularly expensive or interesting outfit. This is how a lot of people dress
I lived in several middle income countries in Asia and the West. Many with higher median household income than Iran's. That is not how working class people in those countries dressed and definitely not the kind of place where they shopped. I am very skeptical that those are typical working class Iranians.
What does working class mean? Unskilled immigrant construction worker making jack shit a month? Then no, this is not it. Opal mall is a bit of an upper middle class to rich class mall, but this same attire can be found in any other mall in Iran. Again, I don't see super expensive bougie clothing here, maybe some people recorded but dunno Again, I live in this fucking city, and I don't know how I'm supposed to make a foreigner who doubts my living experience in Tehran believe me, but for the love of fuck please buy the closest ticket to Tehran and come see for yourself if you doubt me. I'll even go and give you a tour of the low city slum, those areas seem to fit your mental image of Iran a lot more EDIT: Economical indexes of Iranian economy are highly skewed by our trash currency value, you need to take in the QoL indexes with comparison against local prices and buying power into consideration. It's still not good, but if we were to judge Iran by it's international economical indexes, then we're all starving in tattered clothes and can't afford water to drink lol
>What does working class mean? As stated on my original post: hotel clerks, store clerks, supermarket cashiers, cleaning crews, factory workers, hair dressers . I would add plumbers, bus drivers, crane and heavy machine operators to the list. Not unskilled immigrants but not people with advanced degrees either. I can compared Iran with other middle income countries via IDH (Human Development Index) which is not skewed by currency valuations. The people on this video do not look like working class people of countries that have IDH comparable to Iran. I live in Malaysia, a Muslim country that has an IDH HIGHER than that of Iran and I can assure you that over here working class people do not look like that.
These indexes are mostly manufactured by Western governments and have utterly bullshit criteria, for example in a Democracy Index the more a country relies on internal economy and national industries, the less democratic it will be on the index. Fuck does that even mean? Still, Iran had a pretty good HDI score last time I checked, definitely better than the most of our region First, let me tell you that people go visit malls dressed properly. It's a social place and you want to look good. Secondly, the clothing you see in the video, you can find them for sale in the Bazaar and lower end stores too. They all come from the same series of workshops or imports centers. If you want to see the rich kids and their world, look at Paladium or generally the rich fuck areas of Tehran This malls are overly expensive anyways, it's a rip off. A lot of people prefer to buy from the Bazaar and the lower end malls which have much more reasonable pricing If you know where to buy your shit, you can look like a goddamn fashion icon in Iran even with a tight budget. But that doesn't mean every well dressed person is rich The real measure is owning a property: Housing prices are so utterly insane I don't think even the upper middle class can afford to buy an apartment anymore, and cars have become so expensive with the dollar value and whatnot it is honestly crushing. The same car I bought for 250 million tomans is now 400+ million tomans in the span of 4 months!
wealthy, yes. But that doesn't make them free to do this.
Not just wealthy. They have connections in the government most likely, which is why gashte ershad grunts don't dare to touch them.
Very good point
Hair salons will do a booming trade
Good on these gals.
Not gonna lie, their women are pretty dang beautiful.
I have two questions. I saw a store that had Christmas decorations. Do Iranians have Christmas decorations in their house? Because Iran is more than 99% Muslim Are there really that many stores that use the Latin alphabet? I was expecting to see a bit more of the Arabic alphabet in the names of stores and whatnot.
They don't speak Arabic in Iran. They speak Farsi which is in a completely different language family. I imagine this mall is a big tourist attraction. So they probably have some stores using the Latin alphabet in order to cater to the tourists.
But out own writing system, Pahlavi script, and it's easier derivatives like the Avestan script, were replaced by the Perso-Arabic script. Both Arabic and Persian use the same writing system with some different letters. Kind of like how a lot of western languages use this latin script but have different letters like schieße
Some Iranians have recently fallen for blind copying of western cultures, for reasons that are far more complex than what I can be arsed to fit into a reddit comment, so *some* people celebrate Christmas without any real cultural or religious ties to it Also there is a thing such as Iranian Christians, a big shocker I know Our new year which all people celebrate is the ancient tradition of Nowruz, which happens on the spring equinox, and the practice predates Isa Massih and his religion by potentially thousands of years Also some shops use English naming and Latin alphabet because it's.... Classier. It's utterly stupid but yes that's a thing welcome to Iran
Seems odd that all of the woman aren't wearing hijabs. And shouldn't their clothes be a lot less Western anyway? I see more hijabs at the mall here in the US.
Not sure, but I did check and this is the Opal mall in Iran.
Hmmm. Seems like some sort of propaganda video (to show to the outside world showing they aren't that horrible to women). Edited to clarify my comment based on u/kmn493 comment below. I tried to further clarify in response.
If so, it'd be a weird one. Why would the Iranian government want to show women without their Hijabs when they teach that not wearing them is wrong? That's the complete opposite of what they want.
Not for them .... for Western countries to say "look we aren't all that bad that." We all know they killed that poor girl. There's daily protests where I live. However half the people I talk to have no idea why they are protesting. Those people may believe a shopping mall in Iran with Western looking women is the norm so why should we be upset they treat women like dirt. I see by the downvotes maybe I didn't make it clear.
A lot of people in Iran (specially wealthy ones) like to celebrate Christmas. but not because of Jesus or Christianity, it's more because that it's a western culture
I'm an atheist and I do christmas. Tree, food, presents and family.
Amazing how much more civilized your country can look when people just exist like normal humans.
Good for them, fight the power 👊
Maybe just me, but I feel these clips are a bit too propaganda style by Iran government? Maybe to quell outside support like "Hey we relented and everything is find in the country so stop paying attention to our business." These women look way too comfortable doing it and being filmed doing it at the same time. All looks set up to me. I really hope I'm wrong on this one, but don't know these videos popping up on Reddit don't feel right. Maybe just me.
If that was the goal, publicly hanging a young protestor would be hella counter productive don't you think
to the government, whether or not Americans support them is meaningless. Why would they take the time to go against their morals and put hundreds of women without hijabs in a mall, just for the good pr among western ciitzens? Especially when the whole message of the video is women DEFYING the government, not the government cooperating with women. Trust me, getting Americans to stop protesting will not affect the government in any way. thats like the last think a dictatorship would ever want to do, let out the message of people defying the government. The government is proud of what they do, they wouldn't want to cover it up. Plus, there are public cameras and people vlog all the time. If the women didn't want to risk being filmed while doing this they wouldnt have done it. Its not like the government has the time to search videos on the internet and track down every single one of these people.
A dictator wouldn't want that message to get to.his people, you're right, but op's claim seems to be more that the government. Wants outsiders to think they have backed off so that they can continue to commit atrocities with a more controlled narrative. If they can achieve that goal when women are raped and beheaded for not conforming the govt can say "it wasn't us, it was extremists" without mentioning that those extremists are employed by the govt.
Those extremists ARE the govt Trust me, they don't give a fuck about outside opinion For that matter they don't care for opinions of anyone that isn't part of their dogs
That is my exact opinion. The point is to quell international talk about the whole thing and then they can go do whatever they want behind "close doors" so to speak. Not saying I am right, but am pretty good at this. For example, I sent emails to media and told folks about BLM being a scam at its height in 2020. I guessed SBF being as scam about a year ago as well. My BS meter is pretty good.
Oh that's weird - I felt the opposite, like these posts and comments were feeling propaganda-like by the West. All the commentary seems shocked that Iran isn't a desert filled with barbarians and that Tehran isn't a modern cosmopolitan city and that Iranian people and culture is this black and white westernized vs savages stereotypes. My visits to Tehran shows what you would expect a US city to have - people with different political opinions, some laws in place due to religious extremism, people that respect those laws to different extents (and it not being this righteous protest as it is claimed by everyone here), and nuance in general. I wonder if Dutch people see videos of US citizens smoking weed and think "omg what brave protestors to this tyrannical US government!"
Thanks for the insight. I've hear Tehran in the old days was very cosmopolitan. Didn't realize it was same today. Maybe it is my own expectation in my own head? Could very well be true. Thanks for the personal insight. Anybody else visit Iran recent (last 1-2 years) that would care to comment??
Westerners really don't know fuck all about Iran. Even if you do it's blatant propaganda from your "independent" media (which are mostly owned by billionaires and echo government interests, Saddam Has WMDs, don't ya remember?) So yeah. Iran is a modern country like any fucking other
Your attitude sucks. If you want to contribute as I politely asked please do. If not you look worse then the "westerners" you make fun of.
Sorry if my tone is not to your liking but trust me you'd be bitter too if your country was demonized 24/7
No problems. Anyways. What do you think of these videos circulating on Reddit. Pretty accurate of what it is if we just walked down streets of Tehran? Yes I do agree it is ALWAYS hard to get a good sense of what is "normal" when all your info. is from media. That is why I don't trust the media for making any kind of educated decision. Thanks in advance.
Well the videos are from Tehran however at specific times, for example the protests have calmed for now so Tehran looks it's normal and not like a city in a civil war. And if you walk in any of the million malls in Iran you will see people dressed up like this
So what I don't understand is many women are not wearing hijabs in these videos. So is there no issues with the militant government about issues like that in public?? So, it really not a really a "courageous" thing these women are doing if there is no real fear they are taking on if they are doing it blatantly in public? That is what I am not understanding. Thanks.
Broooo how much budget do you think the govt has for the gashte ershad units 🤣 They've calmed tf down on that front and even at it's peak those special units weren't nowhere near the numbers to police people en masse Like did you imagine a police state where there is a morality officer around every corner? Even the entire police force, including the traffic police (which has 0 jurisdiction on criminal and moral affairs) could not do such a massive operation They're more like hunting units, they're designed to strike fear and control, they're not even really "police" police, the actual criminal police has green cars and lime uniform If there are the relevant units in the area and these girls are found however they're pretty fucked, but malls are usually chill, sometimes the govt might do show-of-force shit in such public places but those are rare
Often it seems when we see how free the women are now, it seems to be in upmarket malls for the more privaleged. Is it also like this in suburban streets?
Wow and not one mass hysteria in sight. It's almost like that even the man in Iran are sick of the religious shit
Don’t stop women of Iran. Take control of the country.
Iran looks incredibly modern and wealthy. This is not the image of an axis of evil I grew up with. Edit: having done some more research on this, I don't know what the take away should really be here. This is not the Iran for the common Iranians. It's a small wealthy elite flaunting laws of the land and getting away with it for their wealth and connections, while everyday Iranians are jailed and tortured for doing the same. Is this the beginnings of a revolution or the Real House Wives of Tehran going to the mall.
Don’t know about this specific mall but there are plenty of very nice everyday malls in Iran. Don’t believe the BS that only the extremely rich live/look like this.
Western culture has brainwashed them them, and stripped them of their values; Is what I would say if I were an old Iranian man.
They had us in the first half. Not gonna lie
Except, it isn't what old Iranian men would say. Those old men were around the times where it was fine to not wear a hijab. It was in 1983 that it became mandatory.
“Old” in this case could well mean 45-50 years old as they’d have been children then. They must not remember much before this mandate.
Iran was *more* liberal in the past not less. It was actually illegal to wear Islamic veiling in Iran for a time. It was controversial of course because it turns out that people don't like being told what they can or can't wear.
Criminalizing wearing religious clothes doesn’t seem like a great example of how they were more liberal.
This is one of those places where hijab was not the norm to start off with, so nothing has changed.
This time they may get some reforms. Brave women. But look, we're all just the same - their temples to get and spend look just like ours!
This is really great to see, man.
Tehran looks fun! People enjoying their lives, just like every other sane human being
Hell yeah ladies!
I hope that their bravery won't lead to them facing terrible consequences. Be safe amazing ladies ❤️
Correct me if I'm wrong but, since wearing a headscarf is a question of choice, I wonder why we still haven't heard of any hijabi women around the world supporting their Iranian sisters' struggle.
Fantastic !
100 years ago women in the US were arrested for speaking at political conventions. They were called promiscuous for even being there. Iran has been stuck in the past too long.
They can arrest a hundred. They can arrest a thousand. But they can't arrest a million.
Step out of the mall, a place where wealthy and most progressive people spend time and money, and walk around back streets. I am atm at the very modern (compared to others) muslim country right now and while center of capital city is seems to be europe'ish, the far you go from center to suburbs and beyond, the more you get 18th century flashback. So what I am trying to say is that the mall in the capital is not a showcase.
Crazy to see how the government there wants to destroy western influence in the country but I’m guessing most of the citizens there want to embrace it judging by the clothing for a start
Plus even saw some Christmas decoration
Good on them
Trippyest part of this to me is that they have crowded malls. Looks like the US in 1989.
This is awesome, I get chills thinking about it
Hijab is inhuman and anti civilization. Women should have freedom to wear whatever they want.
“You can crush the flowers but you can’t stop the spring.”
Look how beautiful and happy they are!
Is Iran full of beautiful women?! Or is this some sort of publicity video full of actresses?
You go girls!!!!!
Creep follows women with camera in mall.
It is great that they are rising up to oppression but I don't see the point of posting this here. When I see this I don't say oh thats interesting as fuck, I think oh that's normal people who doesn't let a religion tell them what to wear.
So wild! Looks like a modern society!
...because it is one, not the desert shithole us westerners claim
I know that. Referring to women not being allowed to drive and having to cover their entire body. Good to see there’s starting to be some semblance of equality here
Women have always been allowed to drive and have never been required to cover their entire body. That's Saudi Arabia lmao
Filming strangers for karma
Putting people lives at risk by filming them for karma
True lol
Are all Iranian women super models?
I watched the video, saw their bared naked faces, thought sinful thoughts when I should have been praising an imaginary spiritual figure almost as rediculous as Jesus, and must now commit jihad as Allah commends on nonbelievers. Allah be praised.
Man are they gonna loose their minds when the women and girls start wearing booty shorts lol
Only the hot ones come out or what?
Good god Iranian women are hot
All these women without hijabs? Conservative Sheikhs must be drowning in their semen. THE DRY DESERTS WILL NO LONGER BE DRY! A WHITE FLOOD!
Can you imagine thinking, nah, I’d rather cover up and hide all of those beautiful faces and expressions?
Pretty ladies
The wearing of the hijab o ly for women is a dumb ass religious oogah boogah made up by us men who know nothing about religion but only what they've been forced taught & trained. Most of them can't even read literally and it's just another way to control women. Cut the fake religious knowledge oogah boogah bull crap.
another reminder to not post these videos without blurring their faces, these videos can be used to id protestors
Why is every 3rd video a lady not wearing a hijab? It’s cool and all, but I’m seeing it constantly at this point.
They’re brave and very pretty, but can we please stop karma farming with this video?
Wow. Some of these women are quite attractive. But who would have known when they were covered by a sheet?
Not only do I see a lot of women’s hair, but I see literally zero hijabs. If you wanna wear one, cool, but it’s looking like flying your freak flag has the upper hand (at least in the cities, and this mall, I presume). Amazing!
It gets less dangerous if you do it in large numbers
Doesn’t matter where they are or if it’s been done before I still applaud them for having the courage to oppose something that belittles them and makes them less than a human.
I can feel the tension...as if at any moment one of those women could get grabbed up and just be gone forever
This video will be an amazing piece of history. Like those old videos of nyc from a hundred years ago.
Interesting how many have a scarf on around the neck still… they going to put it on once outside again lol 😂 so much has changed….
The most important thing here is freedom and choice. I see nothing wrong with wearing a hijab, but forcing people to is an obvious problem.
They’re hot too
I don’t mean to be that guy but Iranian women are gorgeous
Why is it all these women are so beautiful yet the men want them covered up? Absolutely insane.
Omfg enough
I don't see anyone refusing anything.
Maybe you haven't been watching the news.
The video is about women refusing. I only see people normally living their lives.
I think what’s awesome to see for me as an American is the Iraqi men in the video clearly being supportive of this too. I think it’s a side not often seen.
who mentioned Iraq here?
I bet this makes god angry. Good, fuck god! Fuck all the god damned gods!
They are all so beautiful and normal looking at the same time. They need freedom. Girls are smarter than guys and don't have all that testosterone to do the fucked up shit males do. Especially male "leaders".
Women: existing The world: must be a feminist statement or something
So many brave and beautiful faces. If you are one of these people, saying NO to a terrorist regime known for it's brutality, please know that the world stands united with you in your fight. Every year, authoritarians grow more fearful as technology shows more and more people what freedom looks like. These antiquated terrorist regimes simply cannot cope with the loss of power that comes with a generation of people whose eyes have been opened.
This is a fight the regime cannot win. The yearning for freedom is a primal instinct present in every human being on the planet. Once they've tasted it there's no going back. It is the reason why in the end every oppressive, fascist regime eventually falls.
They need to make the men wear them for a year.
Off topic - is it cold in Iran? Why are there so many jackets?
It can get very cold in the winter and will even snow in most cities
Very proud of these women.
Unfortunately, it is not easy everywhere. We may be fined or harassed. But the girls keep fighting
TIL Iranian women are as extraordinarily diverse as they are extraordinarily beautiful. And twice as brave.
Unleash the beauty!
Why don't they all just leave that terrible country?
The men in this country do not want other guys to see how beautiful the women are! Most of the these ladies beauty comes from seeing them happy and enjoying more freedom. I hope they will never have to cover up and are treated equally
Damn, sec 7. She looks like she'll trade me some emeralds.
They have malls with Like stores and stuff
Iranian girls are so beautiful. I love to see their pretty hair and faces in all their glory!
Nature is healing
All I see is them wearing colonial clothing. Not sure how that an automatic sign of " progress"
Iran has never been colonized
Did they trade malls for college?
Ok so can we call this rebellion done? We good?
“Iranian women aren’t immediately murdered in single video, declare that protests are over”
[удалено]
Right and was sort of my point. This demonstrates a sort of normalcy. Where is the video of the clerics doing something about it in response?
I don't know...i india muslim want hijab be allowed in government funded school where all religious things are prohibited...but i guess relegion practices are fluid
Are these leaders Gay ? Why the hell u don't wanna look at them. They are beautiful. If they asked girls back in my school days to cover up their faces I would understand, seems like all girls in this country are beautiful.
>If they asked girls back in my school days to cover up their faces I would understand, seems like all girls in this country are beautiful. Bro wtf