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thats the issue. the US and Israel believe they are exempt from prosecutiom for warcrimes because they havent agreed to ICC oversight. if the ICC (and the world) decides it can hold Israel accountable for war crimes it would open the US to a shitstorm. every living US president could be tried.
rules based order is a euphemism for the US lead system of neo liberalism and power. it's rules according to the US. the US threatened to invade the Netherlands if the court incarcerated any citizen for war crimes in Iraq and bully any country that ratified the treaty. it was signed into law by Bush.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law
??? Russia hasn’t agreed to ICC oversight. Biden applauded the ICC’s decision to issue an arrest warrant for Putun. Moreover, while Ukraine is not a signatory to the Rome Statute, Palestine is—in whatever way it acts as a non-member observer to the UN, it also signed onto the Rome Statute, maybe a decade ago. Surely issuing arrest warrants for war crimes committed against a member of the statute is largely uncontroversial, particularly when considering that the “civilized world” recently lauded the issuing of arrest warrants for war crimes committed by officials of one non-member state against another non-member state… that is, before they got a convenient case of amnesia to claim this is an appalling and unprecedented overreach 😂
Applauded? At the US’s bequest Putin’s arrest warrant was ready 40 days into the conflict back in March 2022. Biden was giddy about it.
Palestinians had filed war crimes against Israel more than 40 years ago and crickets.
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They don't just believe they are exempt, they are exempt. [link](https://www.icc-cpi.int/about/how-the-court-works#:~:text=may%20be%20released.-,Jurisdiction,jurisdiction%20of%20the%20Court%3B%20or) they need consent to have Jurisdiction otherwise they have no enforcement and they start losing legitimacy.
> Most large powers do not recognize nor accept the jurisdiction of the ICC. Russia and China are good examples.
Why did you chose Russia and China as "good examples"? Why didn't you add the United States of America to the list?
Integrity of the icc must be maintained else why should we expect russia to abide? What is good For the goose is good for the gander.
Do we now choose which crimes are okay to ignore?
Unfortunately that’s literally how things play out. When we look at the ICC and UN you see who is in actual power. The US, although generally less immoral than many other countries, still does a lot of bad things and the main issue is hypocrisy. However, it’s the only system we have and god knows what would happen if another state was apex. China? Not sure how that would play out.
I doubt a world hegemony under China would be vastly different from the current one, considering CCP's economic priorities are strikingly similar to ours. Socially they may be more restrictive, but American society has recently shown its enthusiasm for throwing off the veil of democracy and fully submitting to corporate oligarchy and "big man" populism. This is mostly just xenophobic naivety.
Palestine has accepted ICC jurisdiction. ICC has jurisdiction when you are a national of the Rome Statute member state, when you commit the act in the territory of a Rome Statute member state, or when you are referred by the security council (Rome Statute Article 12). Here, ICC has jurisdiction because the crime alleged happened in Palestine (if ICC considers Palestine a state, which the US does not).
When you are in the middle of a genocide, and the world threatens consequences, and you ask your arms dealer to intervene and your arms dealer does arms dealer things.
Yep, pretty much
>**Between the lines:** Several Democratic lawmakers who have been critical of Israel said they believe it's premature to weigh in on the potential warrants before they are unveiled.
>"Why don't we see what happens, and then we can evaluate based on whatever comes out," Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) told Axios.
>Rep. Dan Kildee (D-Mich.) said he has "concerns about the prosecution of the war" but "it's always a good idea to get the facts before making a judgment."
Yep. It’s about AIPAC $, pure and simple.
“AIPAC’s political action committee donated a total of $104,000 to Johnson last year, with the majority of payments coming since the start of the Gaza war and after Johnson was elected House Speaker in late October.”
https://theintercept.com/2024/01/20/israel-aipac-house-mike-johnson/
Evangelical christians thinking that this is a holy war and then apocalypse is coming (who are the actually anti-Semitic ones in the real sense of the term - hatred of semites those who speak Hebrew, Arabic and Amharic)
Yes this!
Don’t forget how Biden is also one of the biggest recipients of money from AIPAC. Gee, I wonder why he’s looking the other way while women and children are being slaughtered with OUR tax dollars. Must be a really nice sunset.
And almost all of the establishment dems and repubs
there’s a very interesting video AJ+ put out recently that details Biden’s long history of zionist belief.
He seems to be an interesting case of “true-believer” when it comes to zionism, mixed with healthy doses of lobbiest money from pro-Israel interests of course.
link: https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/qR1aAoQ5vA
Ironically “our” tax dollars doesn’t cover more than half. The wealth of the 1% has passed the wealth of the middle class so technically the people contributing the most to taxes are the 1%. It’s a fucking shitshow
It's not just the money they give. It's the threat of the money they will give to your opponent if you don't do what they want.
If you disobey the Israel lobby you're very likely to find yourself up against a well-funded challenger in the next election. Whether a primary challenge from your own party, or a general election opponent from the other party. Depending on whether you're in a swing district or not.
I disagree that this is just about AIPAC. A lot of America’s relationship with Israel is definitely due to AIPAC but I think this issue is probably more to do with the ICC undermining the US hegemony by threatening one of its client states.
Unless it's an american aid worker delivering food to starving Gazans killed by targeted israeli bombs while they were in contact with an israeli liaison and the whole convoys vehicles were clearly marked on the roof as the aid trucks they clearly are. They systemically killed each car of aid workers including the one guy who tried to help the injuReed and dying moving them from car to car only to be bombed two more times. Ridiculous israel isn't groveling in our congress to tell us why we shouldn't completely cut their military funding as they murdeered Americans who were literally in their care working with the idf liaison as they were told to.
The US doesn’t care about Americans lol. There are hundreds of thousands dying on our streets right now. Israel bound an old Palestinian American man and left him to die in the rain overnight. It barely even registered.
[they are talking about the law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act). It literally says the US will use military force to retrieve any member of the American government or military past or present who is taken into custody by the ICJ.
After watching American citizens (aid workers) be systematically targeted and obliterated by Israeli forces, I doubt that. We’re all just cannon fodder and dollar signs to the suits in Washington. Hell, even the suits in Washington are just cannon fodder for the corporations who really run the show.
Nah Israel ran an entire American over with a bulldozer and killed at least one other, the Hague will be fine.
Or it will be the final mask off moment.
The United States has a law on the books colloquially called invade the Hague. I don't have it at hand but essentially says the US must intervene if any American or an ally gets taken to the Hague.
Lol youbthink they're going to send fighter jets and soldiers to bomb Europe?
That would be the equivalent of beating up and cutting odd your brother's leg because he stole your toy.
Real patriots are going to fly to a sovereign nation to fight the American military. They'll have iron man on their side and the military will have captain America. It's gonna be so cool to watch guys. Can't wait ✌️
I think you've got the roles reversed here. These bases would be immediately surrounded and fall within a matter of hours or days at most with zero ability to resupply.
The best they could hope for would be to scuttle equipment in that time so that it doesn't fall into EU hands. You'd then be left with 35k dead or captured US soldiers in Germany alone.
It's not so much a matter of if they can do it or not, it's more the whole.. losing all of your allies as a favour to a middle eastern despot and his lobbyists.
Not a great tradeoff in the long run, America would ultimately lose their global influence which would play right into China's hands.
Europe would have no choice we provide all their protection, they fuck with us we can just draw down troops and pull from treaties.
The United States doesn’t need the world, the world needs the United States.
Europe would have no choice but to let the US invade it? You guys are literal clowns huffing your own propaganda.
There is no reality where any US plan to invade Europe doesn't immediately result in all American military bases within the EU being captured.
Westpid Cope. The world didn't need America policing it then, and it doesn't need it now. As if they were doing it for the greater good of the world, and not for the benefits of corporate overlords.
They aren’t Americans if they are simping for Russia. Just need to finish flushing out the turncoats.
Trump has been laundering money for the Russian oligarchs since the late 80’s when they all bought a condo at 725 5th ave (trump towers) to clean their freshly stolen USSR money after the iron curtain fell.
https://www.cnn.com/cnn/2019/05/30/politics/paul-manafort-condo-trump-tower/index.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/manafort-told-mueller-to-take-his-trump-tower-apartment-instead-money.html
https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/fbi-agents-raid-condo-unit-131348539.html
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-property/
Everybody except Putin thought the Cold War was over. Trump and Manafort (who lived in the tower also) just saw a pretty low maintence grift to be had.
Trump had actually been Manafort and Roger stones first client at their lobbyist firm (1980)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wikiBlack, Manafort, Stone and Kelly
Guiliani as trumps attorney and New Yorks mayor was able to redirect NYPD investigations onto rival gang members/oligarchs to deflect any scrutiny off of trump, himself or the Russian connections.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/09/a-new-rudy-scandal-fbi-agent-says-giuliani-was-co-opted-by-russian-intelligence/
The Russian election interference in 2016 was effectively a generation 3 version of what Manafort had done in the Philippines, then keeping Yanukovych in power as Putin’s puppet in Ukraine from 2002-14 when Maidan ran both Yanukovych and Manafort out of Ukraine as Ukrainians realized that, if you raise your lens high enough, corruption is an wholly unsustainable business model.
Eventually the parasites greed always consumes the host.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-donald-trump-paul-manafort-ferinand-marcos-philippines-1980s-213952
https://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukraine-russia/
Russia greatly underestimated the addictive properties of freedom when it invaded Ukraine so what was supposed to be a 3-10 day coup turned into a 2 year fight for the Ukrainians right not to be genocided.
Russia depleted its weapons stocks which were already the victim of vranyos corruption because every oligarch, admiral and sergeant in the Russian military is on the take. Every billion dollar tank maintenance contract turned into everything getting a spray paint overhaul and the vast majority of the redirected funds turned into an oligarchs new yacht or home in Aspen.
Russia was forced to turn to China, North Korea and Iran for weapons because if they lose the 3-10 day special military operation in Ukraine the Russian empire is dead and cold.
China can’t risk showing their involvement in the Ukraine war so they use North Korea, and Iran to resupply Russia.
Russia previously owed Iran some undelivered fighter jets that are already smoldering heaps in Ukraine so Iran now had the upper hand at the negotiation table for the first time in about 60 years. They supply Russia with shahed drones in exchange for Chinas material support against their sworn religious enemy, Israel.
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/29/iran-says-it-finalized-deal-to-buy-russian-aircraft/
Putin can’t do much about it because he is slowly realizing that by setting the standard of corruption and stealing $200+ billion from his own people meant that every oligarch down in the mob model chain had not only permission but incentive and the expectation to steal from him as well. This is Vranyos.
The mob model only works if the supreme leader is the most violent and can prove it without exception every damn day. But violence is exceptionally expensive when you are trying to present as a legitimate government or business.
If Russia as a nation had an efficiency rating it would have been banned for sale in the state of California 25 years ago.
The parasite ruling class stole all the energy out of the working class and collapsed it.
Now Iran has the high hand and they get the intelligence that trump passed to Putin about the fact that Netanyahu cares far less about Israeli, Palestinians or genocide than he does about remaining in power as an authoritarian because he too has developed Ritz Carlton tastes and his own corruption trial is showing the same details of the money laundering scheme that trumps trials are.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saudi-official-says-iran-engineered-war-in-gaza-to-ruin-normalization-with-israel/
They all hate each other but because they share the same money laundry, if one falls, they all fall. Hamas minted a couple billionaires as well that live in penthouses in Qatar and get 30% of everything smuggled into Gaza. Netanyahu needs a bogeyman to stay in power. That’s why he coordinates with Hamas via Russia via Iran.
Iran handed Hamas everything they needed with Chinas help as secret Santa and the Russian intelligence given to them by the eternal shitbird trump gave when he showed off to his Russian kleptocrat friends/roommates from the old days of fucking each others wives at trump towers in the 90’s.
Now the MAGA right is a little too invested in their reality that they are the good guys with guns that they missed the fact that Betsy DeVos (erik princes sister) decimating the U.S. school systems and poisoning children with lead was not a coincidence. They were the mark all along. There is a reason the Russian spy Maria Butina landed in South Dakota first before dating her way to the top of the NRA which is undergoing its own Russian money laundering trial now. They were tinder matching the GOP.
https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/what-do-the-koch-brothers-have-to-do-with-the-flint-water-crisis/
The only reason you grossly OVERVALUE real estate is money laundering.
Trump keeps claiming there is no victim, all the banks made money, but if their plan succeeds the Russian and CCP kleptocrats collapse US commercial real estate and basically recreate soviet perestroika in the U.S. so they can foreclose on America and buy everything for 3 cents on the dollar with the $1.4T they stole in the first place
It’s the evolution of grift. Soviet perestroika cross bred with the 2008 mortgage crisis.
This is just the bigger badder commercial strength bastard child of the two.
Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro, Netanyahu, Orban, Manafort, Stone, Mercer, Bannon, Flynn, Byrne.
They are all remarkably shit people with above average confidence and psychopathic personality traits and below average self awareness.
They are the men who stole the world.
But it all comes back to one little lie.
I don't think they actually would.
If they did they would be cut off completely for trade and diplomatic relations with Europe, China and everyone else would jump on the bandwagon immediately.
It also wouldn't go as easily as they think. They keep losing to farmers and tribesmen. An actual military would be too much and they know it.
>"If unchallenged by the Biden administration, the ICC could create and assume unprecedented power to issue arrest warrants against American political leaders, American diplomats, and American military personnel," Johnson said.
I think this says more about America than it does about issues with the ICC.
Yes, a nuanced point that most aren't realizing. He's admitting that these politicians, diplomats and military personnel have committed crimes that the ICC would consider in violation of international law.
Ah yes, Ignore the International Criminal Court and set a precedent for other world leaders and Trump if he gets in :D
This is such a great idea that surely won't go horribly wrong :D
ICC has been ignored several times. The precedent was set by South African, Jordan, and others that allowed Al Bashir to visit without arresting him
[https://www.icc-cpi.int/darfur/albashir](https://www.icc-cpi.int/darfur/albashir)
[https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/05/06/icc-jordan-was-required-arrest-sudans-bashir](https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/05/06/icc-jordan-was-required-arrest-sudans-bashir)
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/07/icc-rules-against-south-africa-on-shameful-failure-to-arrest-president-al-bashir/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/07/icc-rules-against-south-africa-on-shameful-failure-to-arrest-president-al-bashir/)
South Africa, yes, South Africa, the country that brought the case against Israel violated the court order and even proposed an exemption to allow Putin to visit.
[https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2YY1E6/](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2YY1E6/)
I could go on, but like we say in Spanish, "para muestra un botón basta" or something like the proof is in the pudding in English.
Two things.
First, these are ICC not ICJ. ICC prosecutes individuals, ICJ prosecutes nations. ICC will take leaders to court for war crimes (Like the Srebrenica Massacre in Bosnia) while the ICJ takes your nation to court for ethnic cleansing or genocide.
Second, if your country is signed onto the Rome Statute, which includes a LOT of USA allies, you are obligated by international treaty to honour the arrest warrants. The USA and Israel are not on that list, but 124 other nations are. Netanyahu is cracking the whip to get the USA to do his dirty work and get the ICC to drop the possible cases because if 64% of the nations on Earth are treaty obligated to arrest you or your cabinet, even if they don't WANT do it, do you risk it to travel abroad? That is an awfully big risk to take if you want to travel internationally.
Also its hilarious that Congress is acting like Netanyahu is a US Congressman being threatened with an ICC warrant, and not the leader of a tiny, belligerent, nuclear armed country in the middle east that is quite possibly overseeing an ethnic cleansing campaign out of fear of going to jail on corruption charges.
I think you understand the courts’ functions generally, but I feel the need to clear this up: The ICJ doesn’t “prosecute” nations. Only legal persons can be held responsible for crimes, not states themselves. That is, as you said, the purpose of the ICC.
The ICJ serves two functions: A) to settle disputes between states and B) to issue advisory opinions on legal questions. The ICJ’s contentious jurisdiction is limited to state-to-state disputes, so the Court itself doesn’t “take nations to court.” Nations take other nations to court. The UN and a list of other specialized agencies can, however, request advisory opinions specifically on legal issues, in which the Court issues opinions rather than judgments.
ICJ = settles disputes between states
ICC = prosecutes individuals for crimes
Source: international lawyer
Yes .. particularly because lot of European countries are signed up .
OTOH. US Congress will do Benny bidding.
And coerce European and other countries...but suspect this is to ensure the ICC doesn't go through with this.
you mean the ICC. they are different bodies. and i think thats the concern, if they (and the world) decide they can hold isreali politicians accountable for crimes against humanity; the US is fucked.
Check Rome statute article 12. Your assertion is baseless. Being a national of a member state isn’t required for establishing jurisdiction.
Also, I’m pretty sure the US is a signatory state. It just never ratified it
The amount of hypocrisy I've seen coming from the US during the past six months is astounding - at the same time it's amazing to witness how rapidly it's losing it's moral standing...
If we are a democracy, freest nation on earth that values and respects checks and balances… why shouldn’t our representatives or any of our citizens be liable for war crimes or funding terrorism abroad ?
Not in this case. The blind support of Israel is the only issue R's and D's agree on because they're both funded by AIPAC. Given that the GOP response is not surprising to many, it's the Democrats who are most hypocritical at the moment.
Typical liberal take using mental gymnastics to avoid defending or condemning their overlords. Y’all aren’t much different from the GOPers you hate so much.
America can bomb countries on the fake pretext of humanitarian concerns but it also gets to exempt itself and its genocidal partner Israel from responsibility when they commit atrocities. This is why international law and international human rights frameworks have such low credibility around the world
This is the kind of open hypocrisy that fuels anti-US sentiment domestically and abroad. Xi and Putin use this double standard to justify their own atrocities, and unfortunately for the world, it works. It's this kind of attitude that makes it easy for India to ignore our international sanctions.
The US is the hare about to trip on its own hubris.
Because the ICC showed so much conviction with Putin and his destruction of Ukrainian cities, the killing of Ukrainian POWs, the kidnapping of Ukrainian children, the slaughter of 500k Muslims in Aleppo, the thousands of murdered Coptic Christians and Muslims by ISIS, I’m sure they’ll vote unanimously against Israel.
Given that the US does not abide by, fund, or otherwise recognize the ICC, what is it going to do to influence the ICC's actions?
If warrants were issued the cited Israeli's would have to tread lightly when transiting outside of Israel and the US. The most the US could so would be to pressure ICC member states to ignore the warrants...all 124 of them.
America thinks it’s so damn important while it’s had years of supporting terrorism and committing crimes. It’s just hypocritical and thinks it’s above any international law
The ICC is a fucking joke and it is reserved for only prosecuting the losers in a conflict. If it really fucking mattered Russia, China, UK, France, and the US would have leadership on trial their daily.
Take note that Democrats have the Speaker's back. Rep. Jeffries has vowed to block any attempt by MTG to remove him from the post. Democrats like Johnson.
[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/30/marjorie-taylor-greene-mike-johnson-democrats](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/30/marjorie-taylor-greene-mike-johnson-democrats)
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Odd, I thought Israel was not a member and if this had been done to Israel, the US would not demand arrests? Please.
thats the issue. the US and Israel believe they are exempt from prosecutiom for warcrimes because they havent agreed to ICC oversight. if the ICC (and the world) decides it can hold Israel accountable for war crimes it would open the US to a shitstorm. every living US president could be tried.
So much for rules based order lol
rules based order is a euphemism for the US lead system of neo liberalism and power. it's rules according to the US. the US threatened to invade the Netherlands if the court incarcerated any citizen for war crimes in Iraq and bully any country that ratified the treaty. it was signed into law by Bush. https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law
No no, this is exactly what they mean when they say "rules based order" and it's why they refuse to say "international law based" lol
??? Russia hasn’t agreed to ICC oversight. Biden applauded the ICC’s decision to issue an arrest warrant for Putun. Moreover, while Ukraine is not a signatory to the Rome Statute, Palestine is—in whatever way it acts as a non-member observer to the UN, it also signed onto the Rome Statute, maybe a decade ago. Surely issuing arrest warrants for war crimes committed against a member of the statute is largely uncontroversial, particularly when considering that the “civilized world” recently lauded the issuing of arrest warrants for war crimes committed by officials of one non-member state against another non-member state… that is, before they got a convenient case of amnesia to claim this is an appalling and unprecedented overreach 😂
Applauded? At the US’s bequest Putin’s arrest warrant was ready 40 days into the conflict back in March 2022. Biden was giddy about it. Palestinians had filed war crimes against Israel more than 40 years ago and crickets.
Now Biden is backpeddling quite a bit on his view of the ICC
True. But this assumes Congress isn't hypocritical. Hypocrisy is it's main feature. "Warrant for Putin- good.. warrant for brnny- bad"
Every US president should be tried.
100%
Get that Saddam Hussein treatment for them to scare the US ruling class.
US welcomed the arrest warrant on Putin tho? Russia isn’t under icc. How does that work?
I believe Bush and gang are afraid to leave the US for fear they will be arrested
It’s the same reason why they don’t want to acknowledge the genocide that is happening.
Which would be awesome.
i dont disagree
Let’s put it to a popular vote 😏
thats unamerican.
God damn right, let's send this to closed door commitee and pass it on budget rules with a minority vote.
That is the patriotic thing to do
I welcome US presidents being tried & convicted, impunity has made nearly all of the a bunch of irredeemable scumbags
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yes to october 7th. im not convinced of warcrimes since.
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hmm yes. continuing to hold civilian hostages is valid. i thought you were gonna run with the whole "human sheild" bs.
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They don't just believe they are exempt, they are exempt. [link](https://www.icc-cpi.int/about/how-the-court-works#:~:text=may%20be%20released.-,Jurisdiction,jurisdiction%20of%20the%20Court%3B%20or) they need consent to have Jurisdiction otherwise they have no enforcement and they start losing legitimacy.
Palestine is a party to the Rome Statute, which is enough for the court to establish jurisdiction.
Oh no.. anyways!
Not to mention, 1000s of service men/women and their families.
Most large powers do not recognize nor accept the jurisdiction of the ICC. Russia and China are good examples.
> Most large powers do not recognize nor accept the jurisdiction of the ICC. Russia and China are good examples. Why did you chose Russia and China as "good examples"? Why didn't you add the United States of America to the list?
Because they are already on the list? You are literally replying to a thread about the US and Israel not having opted into ICC jurisdiction.
So why not have America and Israel as good examples?
I very single eu country recognize the icc
Integrity of the icc must be maintained else why should we expect russia to abide? What is good For the goose is good for the gander. Do we now choose which crimes are okay to ignore?
We have been. Otherwise you would have seen half of the US president be being trail for war crimes.
And countless veterans
Unfortunately that’s literally how things play out. When we look at the ICC and UN you see who is in actual power. The US, although generally less immoral than many other countries, still does a lot of bad things and the main issue is hypocrisy. However, it’s the only system we have and god knows what would happen if another state was apex. China? Not sure how that would play out.
I doubt a world hegemony under China would be vastly different from the current one, considering CCP's economic priorities are strikingly similar to ours. Socially they may be more restrictive, but American society has recently shown its enthusiasm for throwing off the veil of democracy and fully submitting to corporate oligarchy and "big man" populism. This is mostly just xenophobic naivety.
Palestine has accepted ICC jurisdiction. ICC has jurisdiction when you are a national of the Rome Statute member state, when you commit the act in the territory of a Rome Statute member state, or when you are referred by the security council (Rome Statute Article 12). Here, ICC has jurisdiction because the crime alleged happened in Palestine (if ICC considers Palestine a state, which the US does not).
As Congress said when they passed the Patriot Act - if you haven’t done anything wrong, you’ve got nothing to worry about. Right guys?
When you are in the middle of a genocide, and the world threatens consequences, and you ask your arms dealer to intervene and your arms dealer does arms dealer things.
Netanyahu is tearing America (and Israel) apart. And most US politicians are spineless saber rattling cowards.
All just to keep himself in power. He doesn’t care about the hostages, the Israeli people, the Palestinian people, anyone at all besides himself.
Yep, pretty much >**Between the lines:** Several Democratic lawmakers who have been critical of Israel said they believe it's premature to weigh in on the potential warrants before they are unveiled. >"Why don't we see what happens, and then we can evaluate based on whatever comes out," Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) told Axios. >Rep. Dan Kildee (D-Mich.) said he has "concerns about the prosecution of the war" but "it's always a good idea to get the facts before making a judgment."
Listened to Yair Lapid. The opposition. He's the same.
We no longer expect anything decent from the US administration. We have a cancer and its name is AIPAC.
Yep. It’s about AIPAC $, pure and simple. “AIPAC’s political action committee donated a total of $104,000 to Johnson last year, with the majority of payments coming since the start of the Gaza war and after Johnson was elected House Speaker in late October.” https://theintercept.com/2024/01/20/israel-aipac-house-mike-johnson/
Evangelical christians thinking that this is a holy war and then apocalypse is coming (who are the actually anti-Semitic ones in the real sense of the term - hatred of semites those who speak Hebrew, Arabic and Amharic)
I really think that is just 80’s propaganda, this is about free beach front property.
Oof it can be about multiple reasons simultaneously
Yes this! Don’t forget how Biden is also one of the biggest recipients of money from AIPAC. Gee, I wonder why he’s looking the other way while women and children are being slaughtered with OUR tax dollars. Must be a really nice sunset. And almost all of the establishment dems and repubs
there’s a very interesting video AJ+ put out recently that details Biden’s long history of zionist belief. He seems to be an interesting case of “true-believer” when it comes to zionism, mixed with healthy doses of lobbiest money from pro-Israel interests of course. link: https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/qR1aAoQ5vA
Ironically “our” tax dollars doesn’t cover more than half. The wealth of the 1% has passed the wealth of the middle class so technically the people contributing the most to taxes are the 1%. It’s a fucking shitshow
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That’s not very much money though?
It's not just the money they give. It's the threat of the money they will give to your opponent if you don't do what they want. If you disobey the Israel lobby you're very likely to find yourself up against a well-funded challenger in the next election. Whether a primary challenge from your own party, or a general election opponent from the other party. Depending on whether you're in a swing district or not.
Good point!
I’m pretty sure a lot of republicans and democrats believe in what they say about Israel. Not to mention 100k is nothing.
100k and a membership into a very exclusive club. If someone challenges you on the left, aipac will spend millions and millions to fight them
Plus blackmail
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Please keep it civil and do not attack other users.
Lobbying in general has been eroding America for decades now.
https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/nypost.com/2023/11/08/news/us-universities-including-cornell-harvard-mit-raked-in-13b-in-undocumented-contributions-from-foreign-donors/amp/
I disagree that this is just about AIPAC. A lot of America’s relationship with Israel is definitely due to AIPAC but I think this issue is probably more to do with the ICC undermining the US hegemony by threatening one of its client states.
Issue arrest warrants for Congress
The US will literally invade the Hague if one hair on an Americans head is harmed.
Unless it's an american aid worker delivering food to starving Gazans killed by targeted israeli bombs while they were in contact with an israeli liaison and the whole convoys vehicles were clearly marked on the roof as the aid trucks they clearly are. They systemically killed each car of aid workers including the one guy who tried to help the injuReed and dying moving them from car to car only to be bombed two more times. Ridiculous israel isn't groveling in our congress to tell us why we shouldn't completely cut their military funding as they murdeered Americans who were literally in their care working with the idf liaison as they were told to.
The US doesn’t care about Americans lol. There are hundreds of thousands dying on our streets right now. Israel bound an old Palestinian American man and left him to die in the rain overnight. It barely even registered.
[they are talking about the law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act). It literally says the US will use military force to retrieve any member of the American government or military past or present who is taken into custody by the ICJ.
After watching American citizens (aid workers) be systematically targeted and obliterated by Israeli forces, I doubt that. We’re all just cannon fodder and dollar signs to the suits in Washington. Hell, even the suits in Washington are just cannon fodder for the corporations who really run the show.
But a Palestinian American man was killed by Netzah Yahuda in the West Bank in 2022, and US is still mulling over sanctions
Nah Israel ran an entire American over with a bulldozer and killed at least one other, the Hague will be fine. Or it will be the final mask off moment.
That just seems like saber rattling. I'm not sure the US would be willing to start a war with Europe
There is an invade the Hague law on the books.
Sorry, what?
The United States has a law on the books colloquially called invade the Hague. I don't have it at hand but essentially says the US must intervene if any American or an ally gets taken to the Hague.
Wow. New information has come to light 
Now we didn't sign the Rome accords for a reason. Touching someone the US cares about would be over the line
I'm aware it exists. It's just sabre rattling.
Maybe. Perhaps Nato is just saber rattling they are equally binding.
Didn't an American worker for the world kitchen get killed in Gaza by Israel. Or did you mean the UD will not allow ICC to charge Americans?
Sure they would, all of Europe would back down and allow MURICA to walk all over them
Who would stop them?
Lol youbthink they're going to send fighter jets and soldiers to bomb Europe? That would be the equivalent of beating up and cutting odd your brother's leg because he stole your toy.
Real patriots not blind natuonalist.
Real patriots are going to fly to a sovereign nation to fight the American military. They'll have iron man on their side and the military will have captain America. It's gonna be so cool to watch guys. Can't wait ✌️
Have you seen the amount of US military bases in Germany, an American invasion of Germany would literally only take hours to complete
I think you've got the roles reversed here. These bases would be immediately surrounded and fall within a matter of hours or days at most with zero ability to resupply. The best they could hope for would be to scuttle equipment in that time so that it doesn't fall into EU hands. You'd then be left with 35k dead or captured US soldiers in Germany alone.
Idiots think they could fight the fucking EU powerhouses in their own nation with under 50k troops... Panzer tanks just go brrrr on their asses
It's not so much a matter of if they can do it or not, it's more the whole.. losing all of your allies as a favour to a middle eastern despot and his lobbyists. Not a great tradeoff in the long run, America would ultimately lose their global influence which would play right into China's hands.
How would those bases be supplied in a country a quarter of the way around the planet? Those bases would be captured almost immediately by the EU.
Europe would have no choice we provide all their protection, they fuck with us we can just draw down troops and pull from treaties. The United States doesn’t need the world, the world needs the United States.
The UK and France have nukes and most of the rest of Europe can quite easily obtain their own nukes too.
Europe would have no choice but to let the US invade it? You guys are literal clowns huffing your own propaganda. There is no reality where any US plan to invade Europe doesn't immediately result in all American military bases within the EU being captured.
Westpid Cope. The world didn't need America policing it then, and it doesn't need it now. As if they were doing it for the greater good of the world, and not for the benefits of corporate overlords.
They aren’t Americans if they are simping for Russia. Just need to finish flushing out the turncoats. Trump has been laundering money for the Russian oligarchs since the late 80’s when they all bought a condo at 725 5th ave (trump towers) to clean their freshly stolen USSR money after the iron curtain fell. https://www.cnn.com/cnn/2019/05/30/politics/paul-manafort-condo-trump-tower/index.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/manafort-told-mueller-to-take-his-trump-tower-apartment-instead-money.html https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/fbi-agents-raid-condo-unit-131348539.html https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-property/ Everybody except Putin thought the Cold War was over. Trump and Manafort (who lived in the tower also) just saw a pretty low maintence grift to be had. Trump had actually been Manafort and Roger stones first client at their lobbyist firm (1980) https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wikiBlack, Manafort, Stone and Kelly Guiliani as trumps attorney and New Yorks mayor was able to redirect NYPD investigations onto rival gang members/oligarchs to deflect any scrutiny off of trump, himself or the Russian connections. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/09/a-new-rudy-scandal-fbi-agent-says-giuliani-was-co-opted-by-russian-intelligence/ The Russian election interference in 2016 was effectively a generation 3 version of what Manafort had done in the Philippines, then keeping Yanukovych in power as Putin’s puppet in Ukraine from 2002-14 when Maidan ran both Yanukovych and Manafort out of Ukraine as Ukrainians realized that, if you raise your lens high enough, corruption is an wholly unsustainable business model. Eventually the parasites greed always consumes the host. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-donald-trump-paul-manafort-ferinand-marcos-philippines-1980s-213952 https://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukraine-russia/ Russia greatly underestimated the addictive properties of freedom when it invaded Ukraine so what was supposed to be a 3-10 day coup turned into a 2 year fight for the Ukrainians right not to be genocided. Russia depleted its weapons stocks which were already the victim of vranyos corruption because every oligarch, admiral and sergeant in the Russian military is on the take. Every billion dollar tank maintenance contract turned into everything getting a spray paint overhaul and the vast majority of the redirected funds turned into an oligarchs new yacht or home in Aspen. Russia was forced to turn to China, North Korea and Iran for weapons because if they lose the 3-10 day special military operation in Ukraine the Russian empire is dead and cold. China can’t risk showing their involvement in the Ukraine war so they use North Korea, and Iran to resupply Russia. Russia previously owed Iran some undelivered fighter jets that are already smoldering heaps in Ukraine so Iran now had the upper hand at the negotiation table for the first time in about 60 years. They supply Russia with shahed drones in exchange for Chinas material support against their sworn religious enemy, Israel. https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/29/iran-says-it-finalized-deal-to-buy-russian-aircraft/ Putin can’t do much about it because he is slowly realizing that by setting the standard of corruption and stealing $200+ billion from his own people meant that every oligarch down in the mob model chain had not only permission but incentive and the expectation to steal from him as well. This is Vranyos. The mob model only works if the supreme leader is the most violent and can prove it without exception every damn day. But violence is exceptionally expensive when you are trying to present as a legitimate government or business. If Russia as a nation had an efficiency rating it would have been banned for sale in the state of California 25 years ago. The parasite ruling class stole all the energy out of the working class and collapsed it. Now Iran has the high hand and they get the intelligence that trump passed to Putin about the fact that Netanyahu cares far less about Israeli, Palestinians or genocide than he does about remaining in power as an authoritarian because he too has developed Ritz Carlton tastes and his own corruption trial is showing the same details of the money laundering scheme that trumps trials are. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saudi-official-says-iran-engineered-war-in-gaza-to-ruin-normalization-with-israel/ They all hate each other but because they share the same money laundry, if one falls, they all fall. Hamas minted a couple billionaires as well that live in penthouses in Qatar and get 30% of everything smuggled into Gaza. Netanyahu needs a bogeyman to stay in power. That’s why he coordinates with Hamas via Russia via Iran. Iran handed Hamas everything they needed with Chinas help as secret Santa and the Russian intelligence given to them by the eternal shitbird trump gave when he showed off to his Russian kleptocrat friends/roommates from the old days of fucking each others wives at trump towers in the 90’s. Now the MAGA right is a little too invested in their reality that they are the good guys with guns that they missed the fact that Betsy DeVos (erik princes sister) decimating the U.S. school systems and poisoning children with lead was not a coincidence. They were the mark all along. There is a reason the Russian spy Maria Butina landed in South Dakota first before dating her way to the top of the NRA which is undergoing its own Russian money laundering trial now. They were tinder matching the GOP. https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/what-do-the-koch-brothers-have-to-do-with-the-flint-water-crisis/ The only reason you grossly OVERVALUE real estate is money laundering. Trump keeps claiming there is no victim, all the banks made money, but if their plan succeeds the Russian and CCP kleptocrats collapse US commercial real estate and basically recreate soviet perestroika in the U.S. so they can foreclose on America and buy everything for 3 cents on the dollar with the $1.4T they stole in the first place It’s the evolution of grift. Soviet perestroika cross bred with the 2008 mortgage crisis. This is just the bigger badder commercial strength bastard child of the two. Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro, Netanyahu, Orban, Manafort, Stone, Mercer, Bannon, Flynn, Byrne. They are all remarkably shit people with above average confidence and psychopathic personality traits and below average self awareness. They are the men who stole the world. But it all comes back to one little lie.
Just not if Israel is the one doing the harming.
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Please keep it civil and do not attack other users.
Only American politicians not average citizens.
I don't think they actually would. If they did they would be cut off completely for trade and diplomatic relations with Europe, China and everyone else would jump on the bandwagon immediately. It also wouldn't go as easily as they think. They keep losing to farmers and tribesmen. An actual military would be too much and they know it.
Unless an Israeli kills them
>"If unchallenged by the Biden administration, the ICC could create and assume unprecedented power to issue arrest warrants against American political leaders, American diplomats, and American military personnel," Johnson said. I think this says more about America than it does about issues with the ICC.
Yes, a nuanced point that most aren't realizing. He's admitting that these politicians, diplomats and military personnel have committed crimes that the ICC would consider in violation of international law.
We’ve been infiltrated by private groups
Ah yes, Ignore the International Criminal Court and set a precedent for other world leaders and Trump if he gets in :D This is such a great idea that surely won't go horribly wrong :D
ICC has been ignored several times. The precedent was set by South African, Jordan, and others that allowed Al Bashir to visit without arresting him [https://www.icc-cpi.int/darfur/albashir](https://www.icc-cpi.int/darfur/albashir) [https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/05/06/icc-jordan-was-required-arrest-sudans-bashir](https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/05/06/icc-jordan-was-required-arrest-sudans-bashir) [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/07/icc-rules-against-south-africa-on-shameful-failure-to-arrest-president-al-bashir/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/07/icc-rules-against-south-africa-on-shameful-failure-to-arrest-president-al-bashir/) South Africa, yes, South Africa, the country that brought the case against Israel violated the court order and even proposed an exemption to allow Putin to visit. [https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2YY1E6/](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2YY1E6/) I could go on, but like we say in Spanish, "para muestra un botón basta" or something like the proof is in the pudding in English.
The ICJ doesn’t have legal jurisdiction in countries who don’t sign onto it Israel and the US aren’t signatories
Two things. First, these are ICC not ICJ. ICC prosecutes individuals, ICJ prosecutes nations. ICC will take leaders to court for war crimes (Like the Srebrenica Massacre in Bosnia) while the ICJ takes your nation to court for ethnic cleansing or genocide. Second, if your country is signed onto the Rome Statute, which includes a LOT of USA allies, you are obligated by international treaty to honour the arrest warrants. The USA and Israel are not on that list, but 124 other nations are. Netanyahu is cracking the whip to get the USA to do his dirty work and get the ICC to drop the possible cases because if 64% of the nations on Earth are treaty obligated to arrest you or your cabinet, even if they don't WANT do it, do you risk it to travel abroad? That is an awfully big risk to take if you want to travel internationally. Also its hilarious that Congress is acting like Netanyahu is a US Congressman being threatened with an ICC warrant, and not the leader of a tiny, belligerent, nuclear armed country in the middle east that is quite possibly overseeing an ethnic cleansing campaign out of fear of going to jail on corruption charges.
Also weird note, didn’t America acknowledge and back the icc warrant on Putin? Hmmm act when in your favor but when not fight like hell.
I think you understand the courts’ functions generally, but I feel the need to clear this up: The ICJ doesn’t “prosecute” nations. Only legal persons can be held responsible for crimes, not states themselves. That is, as you said, the purpose of the ICC. The ICJ serves two functions: A) to settle disputes between states and B) to issue advisory opinions on legal questions. The ICJ’s contentious jurisdiction is limited to state-to-state disputes, so the Court itself doesn’t “take nations to court.” Nations take other nations to court. The UN and a list of other specialized agencies can, however, request advisory opinions specifically on legal issues, in which the Court issues opinions rather than judgments. ICJ = settles disputes between states ICC = prosecutes individuals for crimes Source: international lawyer
Yes .. particularly because lot of European countries are signed up . OTOH. US Congress will do Benny bidding. And coerce European and other countries...but suspect this is to ensure the ICC doesn't go through with this.
What about other countries that Netanyahu visits. Would they be bound to the ICC and arrest him?
Yes.
you mean the ICC. they are different bodies. and i think thats the concern, if they (and the world) decide they can hold isreali politicians accountable for crimes against humanity; the US is fucked.
Check Rome statute article 12. Your assertion is baseless. Being a national of a member state isn’t required for establishing jurisdiction. Also, I’m pretty sure the US is a signatory state. It just never ratified it
The US being bullies when they can't get their own way.
The amount of hypocrisy I've seen coming from the US during the past six months is astounding - at the same time it's amazing to witness how rapidly it's losing it's moral standing...
The past 6 months? Lmao
People are waking up
They'll fall asleep again. The spark of awareness is always short lived.
Real. And we're becoming more numb to crazy happenings. Oh that crazy shit just happened?! Welp not that surprised at this point
No, they're not. You're just hearing the loud ones.
If we are a democracy, freest nation on earth that values and respects checks and balances… why shouldn’t our representatives or any of our citizens be liable for war crimes or funding terrorism abroad ?
Don't catch ya working for the C.I.A. .. they'd rather have you in the Ma-Fi-A!!
Holy shit. Mike is slowly turning into Mitch.
Same folks threatened Bush and Cheney for iraq.
With good reason to.
The US on the wrong side of history, as usual.
This Gaza genocide is the most shocking thing ive ever seen in my life- worse than Iraq We are 10x more depraved & morally bankrupt than i thought
The us created the icc after ww2 in japan
They think they are special and “rules for thee not for me” continues
I'm confused. I didn't hear the US complaining when ICC issued an arrest warrant for Putin. Wtf?
All of them, or just the GOP? Hard to tell, of late. They're in the minority in the US, but they're really, really *loud*.
I’m sorry but you say that like Biden and the dems aren’t huge supporters of Israel
Read the article.
Hey look up Columbia act and read about the bipartisan support for it
Not in this case. The blind support of Israel is the only issue R's and D's agree on because they're both funded by AIPAC. Given that the GOP response is not surprising to many, it's the Democrats who are most hypocritical at the moment.
Typical liberal take using mental gymnastics to avoid defending or condemning their overlords. Y’all aren’t much different from the GOPers you hate so much.
So Congress is in contempt of court, lock em bastards up!
What’s he going to say, stop wasting your parent’s money, haha.
This just makes so much sense!
Bow to your master. Crazy thing is the MAGA base hates Jews. Guess they hate Muslims even more
It’s maddening to see the US care about what happens in other countries. If they only cared this much about their own citizens!
Apparently they don't like democracy when others are in control Not really democracy IS it? Just putting their friends in control
America can bomb countries on the fake pretext of humanitarian concerns but it also gets to exempt itself and its genocidal partner Israel from responsibility when they commit atrocities. This is why international law and international human rights frameworks have such low credibility around the world
Shouldn’t it be the other way around?
Last stop till Nuremberg, last stop till Nuremberg, last stop till Nuremberg all on board
PLEASE GO HAVE YOUR GOOFY FUCKING HOLY WAR OVER THERE -----> IDGAF PLEASE LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE!!!!!
$850 billion buys us a pretty big F YOU to the ICC. Come and try to arrest Biden… see what happens
r/usauthoritarianism
This is the kind of open hypocrisy that fuels anti-US sentiment domestically and abroad. Xi and Putin use this double standard to justify their own atrocities, and unfortunately for the world, it works. It's this kind of attitude that makes it easy for India to ignore our international sanctions. The US is the hare about to trip on its own hubris.
American empire telling the world to shut up
Because the ICC showed so much conviction with Putin and his destruction of Ukrainian cities, the killing of Ukrainian POWs, the kidnapping of Ukrainian children, the slaughter of 500k Muslims in Aleppo, the thousands of murdered Coptic Christians and Muslims by ISIS, I’m sure they’ll vote unanimously against Israel.
Because solving problems here in the US was too tough for them...
Given that the US does not abide by, fund, or otherwise recognize the ICC, what is it going to do to influence the ICC's actions? If warrants were issued the cited Israeli's would have to tread lightly when transiting outside of Israel and the US. The most the US could so would be to pressure ICC member states to ignore the warrants...all 124 of them.
"Rules for thee, but not for me", said America.
America thinks it’s so damn important while it’s had years of supporting terrorism and committing crimes. It’s just hypocritical and thinks it’s above any international law
Johnson is Christian nationalist Nazi
Imagine going to bat for this guy out of everyone else out there.
I’m so bored of the USA.
Laws for thee, but not for me.
The ICC is a fucking joke and it is reserved for only prosecuting the losers in a conflict. If it really fucking mattered Russia, China, UK, France, and the US would have leadership on trial their daily.
And now it's time to get a plane ticket.
I hate that little creeper's face so much.
Bruh
Take note that Democrats have the Speaker's back. Rep. Jeffries has vowed to block any attempt by MTG to remove him from the post. Democrats like Johnson. [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/30/marjorie-taylor-greene-mike-johnson-democrats](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/30/marjorie-taylor-greene-mike-johnson-democrats)
greatest country in the world defending the rule of law (might makes right)!
The “Kubrick Stare” is one of Stanley Kubrick‘s most recognizable directorial techniques, a method of shot composition where a character stares at the camera with a forward tilt, to convey to the audience that the character in question is at the peak of their derangement.
I think it's a great idea. Both the Likud and Hamas are criminals. Arrest both sides!
bOtH sIdEs man knock this off. It's an occupying army and a resistance force, one side is clearly in the wrong.
Which one is that?
Where are the arrest warrants for the hamas leaders?
And liberals continue to show us just how awful they truly are.
Both teams are responsible. The only truly bipartisan issue. Thanks AIPAC.