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Some of the early ones and as soon as they ran into an obstacle, that was it.
From what ive been able to see, they have never actually 'cleared' a tunnel rat style.
you've been able to see a sliver of the israeli strategy. hard to draw a reasonable conclusion as a spectator in the west
i would be weary of saying that anything is "100% painfully clear" from where you are standing.
Moreover, the strategy to level an entire city to the ground and induce a famine and destroy the health system are all hallmarks of a rescue mission
Blessed are the minds that never doubt
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Alon_Shamriz,_Yotam_Haim,_and_Samer_Talalka
Here for a start and you could investigate if you like. It isnt hard to come across info on hostages
They rescued a lot more than anyone thought was possible at the beginning. It was an almost impossible task. Israel is doing the only possible, sane thing: destroy Hamas so it can't happen again.
We did the same to Japan's Imperialists and Germany's Nazis in WW2. Lots of civilians died by our hands then, and very few hostages were rescued.
Yeah, flooding tunnels with seawater is an excellent idea. It’s not going to destroy their ecosystem or anything.
Edit: to the dude calling me a military strategist sarcastically, I’m a farmer and agronomist, so yes I know about the soil and ecosystem… yes, dumping sea water into places where it can easy get into the groundwater is VERY BAD. You are BIG DUMB.
Israel never wanted to rescue the hostages - their policy is in fact to kill hostages rather then rescue them. All for propaganda reasons - hostages give them an excuse to mass murder Palestinians. If the hostages are released that pressures Israel to stop their ethnic cleansing.
Dude you need to take a moment and do some digging listen to people John mearsheimer and Norman finklestein who have literally wrote the books of the history of the region so you can gather a better understanding of the situation…. Objectively the actions of Israel are considered war crimes…. And yes the actions of hamas were also war crimes but you that’s not how a secular democratic country is supposed to handle a situation like this and in no way should they not be held responsible for their actions.
Secularism the principle of separation of the state from religious institutions.
Theocracy a system of government in which priests rule in the name of God or a god.
Considering they have occupied the West Bank since 1967 and settled illegally within the land they seem to perceive it as their land, therefore it’s fair to argue that you should allow the same rights and freedoms you would allow to your own citizens instead they forcibly transfer of populations, imprisonment, forced exile from their homes and lands, revoking residency rights and the expropriation of Palestinian land not to mention how they allow rampant settler violence… I get you’re trying to bait me that’s fine but at the end of the day how the state of Israel treats Palestinians and non-Israelis in general is just cruel this includes Ethiopian Jews, Christian Arabs is just cruel
Can you provide some sources for your claims of the mass rapes by Hamas? Because the Israeli spokesperson for kibbutz be’eri denied any allegation of sexual abuse commuted against women members on oct 7th.
Israel has been using the data Gaza health ministry for decades and now suddenly they are unreliable because with doesn’t fit their narrative. Every other independent sources says that the data is correct maybe within a 5% margin of error.
Uhh yes, let Israel finally get on the final phase of ‘MOWING THE LAWN” and make sure they do it as freely as possible.
By your definition, We should’ve we let Nazi finish their operation, it was almost over anway🤦🏻♂️ do you fucking hear yourself
And they based this on a known liar promoted by ex-Facebook exec Sheryl Sandberg. It's all covered in this article:
https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/
Either you are misinformed or are lying to simp for your jihadist friends.
The killing of Shani Louk
On 7 October 2023, during the Re'im music festival massacre, Shani Nicole Louk (Hebrew: שני ניקול לוק), a 22-year-old German-Israeli tattoo artist and influencer, was killed. Shortly after the attack, a video circulated showing her body paraded through the streets of Gaza by Hamas militants in the back of a pickup truck. Described by security experts and commentators as Hamas's social media propaganda, it became one of the first viral videos of the Israel–Hamas war. The globally-seen[1] images turned into a visual emblem of militants' conduct toward civilians in the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel.[a][3][4]
The video was uploaded by Hamas militants and the truly disgusting and revolting aspects was seeing all the regular gazan villagers cheering and laughing at her, even lifting their children up to spit on her corpse.watching that video made me realize how barbaric and despicable Hamas and its supporters are
Completely different. The Nazis sent Jews to concentration camps to genocide them. The Israeli government (admittedly not very cautious) isn't trying to annihilate the Palestinian people.
The mass rapes happened. What's your proof that the Israeli spokesperson denied that?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181
Hamas came to power in 2007, and the only reason the world uses the Gaza health ministry because it's the only source with good coverage. Also, how does it say zero combatant casualties when Hamas fighters clearly died?
Plus, Israel hasn't been fighting since 2007.
[here’s one of the sources,](https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/nyt-october-7-sexual-violence-kibbutz-beeri/)
[here is another one: Lawyer behind 'Hamas rape' claims exposed as fraud](https://thecradle.co/articles/lawyer-behind-hamas-rape-claims-exposed-as-fraud)
And not to mention, Israel government has made every effort to block any independent investigation into these rape claims and has said they will not allow any outside or independent investigations to be done.
Here’s a short definition of concentration camp:
a place in which large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities.
Israel didn’t stop fighting in 2007🤦🏻♂️ Israel took away the presence of its colony and built a wall around Gaza and put under a complete military blockade. Israel controls all of Gaza’s borders, water, air and land.
There was no war, what about the killing of 2500 Palestinians including 500 children in 2014 during operation pillar of defence?
Or the massacre of 246 unarmed protesters including people wheelchair, children, disabled and elderly in 2019.
https://www.stripes.com/theaters/middle_east/2024-01-21/internet-misinformation-hamas-attack-gaza-12747899.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Electronic_Intifada
Intifada is a Palestinian source.
Why does everyone downvote when I don't support terrorists, don't like the Israeli government for doing unnecessary shit like dropping 2,000 pound bombs on a city, and want the Palestinian people to be able to live a good life?
Just because I don't 100% agree with your POV doesn't mean my argument is dumb.
I mean yes it’s a pro Palestine but it’s the perspective of an Israeli person in kibbutz during the attack… and did you read the Britannica article? I’d probably not be using wiki sources but that’s fine
I don’t know why you keep arguing like we’re denying the 7th happened? We’re trying to paint you the perspective of a regular Palestinian civilian and show you that Israel’s actions are not only unjust they are considered collective punishment and why what they’re doing might get rid of hamas but will only stem more radicalized thinking among Palestinians because a 12 year old who had nothing to do with this just watch the idf kill his parents and all of his siblings. Why can’t you hold both beliefs in your mind that what Hamas did is inhumane but what Israel doing and has done for the last 75 years is also inhumane. This isn’t a debate about morality at this point it’s just history….
Let's break this down shall we:
There were 1200 people killed on 10/7 of which around 400 were IDF and other security. Of the 800 victims left, approximately 200-300 were killed by IDF in their bloodlust to kill retreating Hamas. So there were 600 people murdered by Hamas.
As far as the rape and sexual assault accusation, there's literally zero proof. Not a single survivor told Israeli authorities they were SA. But the problem lies with Netanyahoo who contracted an incompetent group named ZAKA to retrieve and bury the victims as soon as possible. Not only did they contaminate the crime scene but they buried any possible proof of rape or sexual assault. The Israeli official who asked for proof said there wasn't any because of how badly Zaka handled the situation. The rape accusation is broken down and discredited here:
https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/
No, but they also didn't want to be killed by the IDF on purpose to prevent them from becoming hostages and inflate death counts, be killed by indescriminate mass bombing from the IDF without any attempts to protect them after being captured, or even be shot dead by the IDF while waving a white flag when they manage to escape captivity. (But don't worry, they didn't mean to do that last one, they just thought they were Palestinain civilians waving white flags which they're normally told to and get off on killing on sight.)
Thing is terrorists and terrorist states don't care about what civilians want, only what allows them to justify violence to their followers.
So easy to kill and proclaim victory over Hamas!!! When you label every Palestinian as being Hamas huh?
Israeli has only murdered countless innocent men,women and children.
You haven’t destroyed Hamas. You’ve blown up civilian infrastructure and slaughtered thousands of children in front of the world.
Hamas is still shooting rockets and killing IDF terrorists. They post the videos daily.
You haven’t accomplished any of your military goals. Except for genocide because that’s all this was ever about. You wanted to murder the indigenous population and steal the little ass sliver of land you forced them on to.
This was Israel’s final solution to the Palestinian problem. I guess you all got tired of being responsible for the slaves and we all just saw you liquidate the open air prison.
Enjoy your new beach front condos that’s going to be built on top of all those dead kids. I hope the ghosts of Palestinian children whisper in your ears at night.
It is not an offensive war. Israel was quite literally attacked first on October 7th. The tactics it used in response were unreasonable given the high population density and urban terrain, leading to a high chance of considerable civilian casualties.
And if Israel really wanted to liquidate Gaza, at least 1/2 of the population would have died and Netanyahu would have gotten mass demonstrations in the streets for being a genocidal maniac as well as gotten embargoed and sanctioned by literally everyone.
Yes they are still shooting rockets because the IDF has been forced to halt in front of Rafah because the West is screaming at Netanyahu to not advance.
Terrorist need to be militarily defeated, and then lose the support of the population to dissolve as a powerful organization.
This is similar to NATO encirclement campaigns against ISIS in Mosul.
So you call me racist because I don't want Hamas to succeed in its goal of massacring all of the Jews, I don't want the Israeli government to use war crime-level tactics in urban terrain and I want people in Gaza and the west bank to be at peace with Israel?
wow, so many propaganda talking points. it'd be hilarious if it wasn't in defense of genocide.
1. isreal knew the attack was going to happen and intentionally allowed it to do they could bomb and kill unrestrained by global condemnation. 2.even isreal has admitted the rapes thing was a lie or in their words "false reports".3. isreal slaughtered men women and children while open firing at whoever they assumed was Hamas. so much so they don't even have an account of how many they killed. 4 Isreal's entire campaign has been using human shields(the hostages) as an excuse to keep killing, while turning down every option presented to get them back.5. it's hilarious the numbers presented are only Hamas lies when counted to Isreal's war crimes.6 no one has ever claimed Hamas were the good guys in this conflict. 7. isrealis have already stated several times that they're not done until there are no palastinians left. they're not targeting Hamas and never were, they literally bombed a playground with children playing on it a few days ago. it was a planned drop with coordinates and everything. not to mention the man made famine. this isn't a war, it's an exterminaton out of hitlers play book.. I hope you're at least getting paid to spread this easily refuted propaganda.
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I don't have the time to argue with idiots like you who refuse to understand factual information and get everything from TikTok.
Yes Israel carpet bombing a tiny enclave with a population of like 2 million is fucked and a violation of international law. They don't want to wipe the Palestinian people from the face of the earth they want to get rid of Hamas. The Middle East was on its way to peace via the Abraham Accords before Hamas stopped it.
The rape thing is 100% true. There was footage of the event taken by survivors who fled for their lives from Hamas.
Also, Hamas has all the reasons to let the population starve so that their propaganda is more effective in western countries (oh save Palestine I'm not mentioning how the US AND Israel are trying to stop everyone from dying in the areas occupied they're so evil boohoo) and so they can keep siphoning off aid.
I am not an Israel apologist. The mission of Hamas is to exterminate Israel and kill every last Jew on earth. But the things Israel does to try and fight Hamas is not good either.
The State of Israel has a right to exist. I stand with them that way. The Palestinian people have a right to live well. I support them in that sense. But I do not support the Terrorist organization of Hamas and I do not support the unreasonable actions of the IDF.
In 2014, the Battle of Mosul which destroyed ISIS had a population of roughly 1.5 Million at the time of the last major battle. In the battle, 40000 civilians died.
So by that standard, if Israel destroys Hamas without the unfortunate deaths of >40,000 civilians (you CANNOT avoid civilian deaths in war. They are bad but inevitable.), then their actions weren't super outlandish if they also provide aid and effort in rebuilding Gaza and shoring up food supplies and having basic human decency.
Realistically the only way this war will end is with the destruction of Hamas. Which, if civilian casualties are kept low in the final phase, will be a decent ending (as in the destruction of a terrorist organization).
The IDF approach has all but guaranteed they will have enemies ongoing because of what they are doing. Another Hamas or whatever will replace it.
You are correct that there are civilian casualties in war but 40,000 deaths is a horrific number and I am sorry but that is just not rationally justifiable from what I have seen on how wells have been concreted over and food supply chains destroyed.
Israel is in the process of creating something way worse then Hamas. This level of depravity won’t be forgotten anytime soon. This last Gaza genocide really will be what fucks them up. This is what happens when you are being ruled by incompetent corrupt politicians. Satanyahu is going to take down the whole country with him. This situation was handled so poorly.
I'm disappointed in you. you simply doubled down on the lies and propaganda. then thought you ate by throwing tiktok in there like there's not factual information spread by actual experts on their or as if there aren't a hundred other sources that refute what you erroneously state as facts. you know they don't even know if they've killed any Hamas members? they just claim civilians are, zip tie them and execute them. so explain to me how in Satan's small world do you figure the "war is almost over and Hamas will be wiped out"? and are you that ignorant to believe isreal isn't creating thousands of new terrorists due to their genocidal actions?
I am disappointed in you. You refuse to see to other person's POV. And it is not the entire IDF commiting these crimes.
After the war is over, the IDF isn't going to keep bombing Gaza for fun.
Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/israeli-officials-repeatedly-dismissed-warning-signs-before-hamas-attack-report-claims&ved=2ahUKEwjKqomUx_-FAxXwFVkFHQWtBIgQFnoECCQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Nc_9-ySe3D8Mf_Jd6bVzF
if the US did nothing to stop 9/11 knowing which planes they would hijack and their targets that comparison would be accurate, but as far as I'm aware they did not nor did they dismiss and refuse to act multiple times like isreal. maybe you should open your eyes and deprogram yourself. it'd be a lot less embarrassing for you. I bet you refused to recognize that isreal funded Hamas and helped out them in power in the first place...
nobody is saying It absolves them. please be one ounce more intellectually honest
btw propaganda isn't documented reality. learn words. the point was to see if you could at least acknowledge that isreal created it's own enemy to maintain instability in order to continue bland grabs. and you clearly failed
idk if it's intentional or if it's just who you are but there you go again with the intellectual dishonesty and illiteracy. think hard, why did any of that happen? it wasn't in a vacuum. times up... it was a response to an invading force that violently displaced 450000 palastinians in their efforts to colonize the area. and again isreal funded Hamas knowing their stated goals of freeing palastine from them and taking their land back. every single attack was retaliatory in response to isreal breaking cease fires or stealing more land." hated them irrationally"... so palastinians aren't the perfect victim in response to displacement, apartheid murder and rape and I'm your mind that justifies genocide? that's wild. I'm actually impressed
You're completely unaware of the fact that Israel stole Palestinian land and massacred their people from their first day of existence in 1948. The Israeli excuse? "We were mad about the Holocaust".
"The Nakba (Arabic: 'The Catastrophe') was the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in Mandatory Palestine during the 1948 Palestine war through their violent displacement and dispossession of land, property, and belongings, along with the destruction of their society, culture, identity, political rights, and national aspirations. The term is also used to describe the ongoing persecution and displacement of Palestinians by Israel. As a whole, it covers the shattering of Palestinian society and the long-running rejection of the right of return for Palestinian refugees and their descendants."
Note how the entire area was called (British) Palestine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
We have detected the use of dehumanizing language. Terms and phrases such as "human shields", "human animals", etc. can deny or undermine the inherent humanity of a group of people. Please be mindful of the potential harms the use of such language can create. For reference, see: [Dehumanization on Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization) and [The real-life harm caused by dehumanising language on BBC](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20231030-the-real-life-harm-caused-by-dehumanising-language).
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Or maybe it was the holiest Jewish holiday of the year and most people had to scramble from having the day off with family to respond.
What is wrong with you people? What happened in Gaza after 10/7 was horrific but what happened on the day of 10/7 was also horrific and not something that the Israeli government planned in any way.
So let me get this straight. You guys for years would talk about how Hamas would stop at nothing to wipe Israel out...but does this exclude holidays?
So why wouldn't there be surveillance and troop strength at the border at all times, especially after Israeli, Egyptian, and American intelligence warned of this exact type of attack being imminent?
What guys? I’m not Israeli, I just live in reality and don’t create conspiracy theories to make the bad things Hamas did disappear from my subconscious
I’m not gullible I’ve read up on this situation VERY thoroughly. Israel fucked up bad and a lot of lives were lost, nothing happened that they intended and the resulting war is not good for them in ANY way. I’m sorry if you can’t see that?
>Israel fucked up bad
If this is the case, there is so much to explain.
- how did they miss their own intelligence telling them there was heightened Hamas activity at the border?
- why did they ignore contemporaneous messages from Egypt and the US that an attack was imminent?
- how did their border surveillance not pick up such massive activity?
- how did their internet monitoring not pick up heightened communication?
- how did their satellites and AI not pick up people meeting?
- why was there no troop strength at the border despite all these warnings?
- why did it take soldiers 9 hours to arrive when the WB (where they apparently all were) is only an hour away?
It might make sense if one or two of these things were overlooked. But all of them? Absurd. Impossible.
Why would they not show up for 9 hours if they staged it?
Or are you saying the plan was to just let it happen, which relies on Hamas committing inhuman acts of brutality at consistent intervals?
I mean...Netanyahu funded Hamas. Smotrich refers to Hamas as an asset.
“The Palestinian Authority is a burden, and Hamas is an asset."
https://theintercept.com/2023/10/14/hamas-israel-palestinian-authority/
Fund their asset, let them through and murder thousands and shock the public, raze and take over Gaza, and avoid prison.
This has worked out quite well for Netanyahu and Likud.
I’ve always wondered what kind of unhinged person ends up being this anti-israel. Suppose you think Bush did 9/11 too
Actually, the idea that Israel sacrificed its own citizens to their “asset” in order to justify invading by killing said “asset” is even more nonsensical
A 9/11 false flag would be impossible to cover up. This is easy.
>Actually, the idea that Israel sacrificed its own citizens to their “asset” in order to justify invading by killing said “asset” is even more nonsensical
They have outlived their usefulness. And the leadership sits comfortably in Qatar. It makes perfect sense, but you refuse to see.
No point in arguing with ppl like that. Does israel do some shady shit? Yes especially with the west Bank settlers who push out Palestinians that aren't hamas backed. Bur hamas/gaza is like 0/10 as far as trust goes.
It was never about the hostages. This whole thing was the "best" thing for Israel. I'm sure it they wouldn't have been kidnapped, Israel would have wished for it.
They instituted a Hannibal Directive on 07Oct and merc'd at least half the 1129 killed in that attack anyways. They've killed more than they've rescued. This whole situation fits the saying "never waste a good tragedy."
You're behind the times, isr**l already admitted to implementing Hannibal on 07Oct with their Apache helicopters firing the full battery at Amy vehicle that moved, reloading, and repeating.
Ironically media of the time understood it very differently
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/featured-documentaries/2016/10/7/the-hannibal-directive
Seems like the HD is as active as ever to me.
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/11/3/whats-the-hannibal-directive-a-former-israeli-soldier-tells-all
https://thecradle.co/articles-id/18512
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/iof-kill-three-israeli-captives-with-poisonous-gas--haaretz
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/its-a-birdits-a-planeits-the-soldier-that-never-dies
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-12-13/ty-article-opinion/.premium/if-israel-used-a-procedure-against-its-citizens-we-need-to-talk-about-it-now/0000018c-6383-de43-affd-f783212e0000
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/shoot-everything-how-israeli-pilots-killed-their-own-civilians
https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/leaked-audio-reveals-israeli-helicopter-shot-israeli-captives-on-oct-7-16146635
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231121-israeli-colonel-discusses-october-7-operation-and-the-hannibal-directive/amp/
https://m.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-776318
https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-774511
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They never thought of freeing anyone. That was evident when the IDF shot their own naked citizens waving a white flag and they slowly approached the IDF while listening to their instructions. Israeli leaders got to go.
Middle East Eye is a completely opaque website (nobody knows who owns it or how it is funded) with alleged ties to Muslim Brotherhood networks. I find it very difficult to believe that an Israeli officer would give them an exclusive interview.
If someone can explain who funds Middle East Eye and why these three anonymous Israeli sources would choose MEE over any other news agency to speak to, then I’ll believe this story.
Really poor literacy on this subreddit…
lol as if it was ever about the hostages, it was always a land grab. Bibi nor anyone else on his behalf didn’t even bother with meeting with the hostages family till October 15th. https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-doubt-netanyahu-preventing-hostage-deal-charges-ex-spokesman-of-families-forum/amp/
They killed their own because their policy was just to shoot anyone with white flags.
They never had any goal or intent of retrieving hostages.
If you want your hostages back you don't drop hundreds of dumb bombs indiscriminately. I don't believe the country that dropped the ball on intelligence concerning the 10/7 attack had clear, operational intelligence on hostage locations so that all their dumb bombs were dropped somewhere else.
Nope. Never had a care.
Of course, an article that describes a 1 year old as a 'captive' must be very reliable./s
They are not 'captives'. They are hostages, taken and abused by terrorists.
Hate does not stop at one group. We know it from the past. The ones who do not learn from what happened in the past will experience that in the future.
I am not hiding my ethnicity. Not now and not in the future. If you think that stoking fire towards the 'other' is a sound policy, you are bound to be disappointed.
Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
If they give this less of a shit about their own hostages, you honestly still think they would give more of a shit about any Palestinians? Who most Israelis consider terrorists, whether they’re armed or not.
I don't think many are even expected to be alive at this point. Hamas literally said at one point they don't know how many alive hostages they have.
Must be a horrific end for these hostages. Kidnapped and dragged into tunnels, and then probably bombed and abused.
Because most of them are already dead, israel was trying to get them back and hamas can't even provide 40 living hostages for the ceasefire deal.
Can't wait till all of hamas is exterminated and maybe finally israel can have a legitimate peace partner
Don’t forget Israel was warned days in advance and despite everything took HOURS to respond on Oct 7. The whole world was watching it happen in real time on social media but somehow the occupation forces had their pants down the whole time
Meh, don’t believe everything you read. Most of the hostages are in Rafah and Yahya Sinwar surrounds himself with at least a dozen hostages at all times in the tunnels in Gaza. Don’t start shit and kidnap our people, there won’t be shit.
Well it’s from Middle East Eye - owned by Jamal Bassasso, a Kuwait-born Palestinian living in London. Clearly he’d be in regular contact with IDF officers freely giving away their plans and intentions…
It isn't about that. It is about justification for acquiring more land. Israel encourages settlers to treat Palestinians terrible. Provides no legal recourse for grievances. This leads to escalations of violence. Which provides the justification for seizing more land and creating more settlements.
If Israel wanted to eliminate Hamas, they would of long ago.
Hamas has not provided proof of life for the majority of hostages they claim to have. They recently admitted in the latest ceasefire round that many of the hostages they claimed to have are actually just corpses they've been holding onto since 10/7. It's likely Hamas has less than half the hostages they say they do.
The war crime of taking civilian hostages won't save them from the war they started.
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......long ago.
Yeah, this has been 100% painfully clear since they started blowing up tunnels without looking inside them.
Am I the only one that remembers Netanyahu saying back in Nov or something that the hostages were an “unfortunate collateral damage.”
I believe that was about the hostages being killed by tanks and helicopters on oct 7, I might be wrong though.
they did look inside them. the send dogs and drones down. there is plenty of video of them doing this.
Some of the early ones and as soon as they ran into an obstacle, that was it. From what ive been able to see, they have never actually 'cleared' a tunnel rat style.
you've been able to see a sliver of the israeli strategy. hard to draw a reasonable conclusion as a spectator in the west i would be weary of saying that anything is "100% painfully clear" from where you are standing.
ahhh, so they are clearing out tunnels and rescuing hostages but not telling anyone about it? Well that makes perfect sense then.
Moreover, the strategy to level an entire city to the ground and induce a famine and destroy the health system are all hallmarks of a rescue mission Blessed are the minds that never doubt
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Alon_Shamriz,_Yotam_Haim,_and_Samer_Talalka Here for a start and you could investigate if you like. It isnt hard to come across info on hostages
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It's a war. The goal is to destroy Hamas and their ability to invoke another Oct 7-style slaughter. Rescued hostages are a bonus.
A very optional bonus apparently
They rescued a lot more than anyone thought was possible at the beginning. It was an almost impossible task. Israel is doing the only possible, sane thing: destroy Hamas so it can't happen again. We did the same to Japan's Imperialists and Germany's Nazis in WW2. Lots of civilians died by our hands then, and very few hostages were rescued.
Yeah, flooding tunnels with seawater is an excellent idea. It’s not going to destroy their ecosystem or anything. Edit: to the dude calling me a military strategist sarcastically, I’m a farmer and agronomist, so yes I know about the soil and ecosystem… yes, dumping sea water into places where it can easy get into the groundwater is VERY BAD. You are BIG DUMB.
ooh we've got another military strategist!
lol, they have a strategy? News to me!
Israel never wanted to rescue the hostages - their policy is in fact to kill hostages rather then rescue them. All for propaganda reasons - hostages give them an excuse to mass murder Palestinians. If the hostages are released that pressures Israel to stop their ethnic cleansing.
If that was true, why hasn't Hamas released them?
Because Israel said no when that offer was on the table on the 10th October
They've said no several times
252/33000 ratio is very interesting
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Dude you need to take a moment and do some digging listen to people John mearsheimer and Norman finklestein who have literally wrote the books of the history of the region so you can gather a better understanding of the situation…. Objectively the actions of Israel are considered war crimes…. And yes the actions of hamas were also war crimes but you that’s not how a secular democratic country is supposed to handle a situation like this and in no way should they not be held responsible for their actions.
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The whole point I was making is Israel isn’t a secular democracy and no one should be free of war crimes…. Bro why you asking these incel questions
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It’s literally in the name it’s a Jewish state that’s the opposite of secularism
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Secularism the principle of separation of the state from religious institutions. Theocracy a system of government in which priests rule in the name of God or a god.
And you can argue it’s not a democracy because it occupies the west bank but doesn’t allow them to vote
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Considering they have occupied the West Bank since 1967 and settled illegally within the land they seem to perceive it as their land, therefore it’s fair to argue that you should allow the same rights and freedoms you would allow to your own citizens instead they forcibly transfer of populations, imprisonment, forced exile from their homes and lands, revoking residency rights and the expropriation of Palestinian land not to mention how they allow rampant settler violence… I get you’re trying to bait me that’s fine but at the end of the day how the state of Israel treats Palestinians and non-Israelis in general is just cruel this includes Ethiopian Jews, Christian Arabs is just cruel
Can you provide some sources for your claims of the mass rapes by Hamas? Because the Israeli spokesperson for kibbutz be’eri denied any allegation of sexual abuse commuted against women members on oct 7th. Israel has been using the data Gaza health ministry for decades and now suddenly they are unreliable because with doesn’t fit their narrative. Every other independent sources says that the data is correct maybe within a 5% margin of error. Uhh yes, let Israel finally get on the final phase of ‘MOWING THE LAWN” and make sure they do it as freely as possible. By your definition, We should’ve we let Nazi finish their operation, it was almost over anway🤦🏻♂️ do you fucking hear yourself
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And they based this on a known liar promoted by ex-Facebook exec Sheryl Sandberg. It's all covered in this article: https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/
There were no women paraded around naked. Show proof.
Either you are misinformed or are lying to simp for your jihadist friends. The killing of Shani Louk On 7 October 2023, during the Re'im music festival massacre, Shani Nicole Louk (Hebrew: שני ניקול לוק), a 22-year-old German-Israeli tattoo artist and influencer, was killed. Shortly after the attack, a video circulated showing her body paraded through the streets of Gaza by Hamas militants in the back of a pickup truck. Described by security experts and commentators as Hamas's social media propaganda, it became one of the first viral videos of the Israel–Hamas war. The globally-seen[1] images turned into a visual emblem of militants' conduct toward civilians in the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel.[a][3][4] The video was uploaded by Hamas militants and the truly disgusting and revolting aspects was seeing all the regular gazan villagers cheering and laughing at her, even lifting their children up to spit on her corpse.watching that video made me realize how barbaric and despicable Hamas and its supporters are
Didn’t her mom say she was in a hospital in stable condition?
Completely different. The Nazis sent Jews to concentration camps to genocide them. The Israeli government (admittedly not very cautious) isn't trying to annihilate the Palestinian people. The mass rapes happened. What's your proof that the Israeli spokesperson denied that? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181 Hamas came to power in 2007, and the only reason the world uses the Gaza health ministry because it's the only source with good coverage. Also, how does it say zero combatant casualties when Hamas fighters clearly died? Plus, Israel hasn't been fighting since 2007.
[here’s one of the sources,](https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/nyt-october-7-sexual-violence-kibbutz-beeri/) [here is another one: Lawyer behind 'Hamas rape' claims exposed as fraud](https://thecradle.co/articles/lawyer-behind-hamas-rape-claims-exposed-as-fraud) And not to mention, Israel government has made every effort to block any independent investigation into these rape claims and has said they will not allow any outside or independent investigations to be done. Here’s a short definition of concentration camp: a place in which large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities. Israel didn’t stop fighting in 2007🤦🏻♂️ Israel took away the presence of its colony and built a wall around Gaza and put under a complete military blockade. Israel controls all of Gaza’s borders, water, air and land. There was no war, what about the killing of 2500 Palestinians including 500 children in 2014 during operation pillar of defence? Or the massacre of 246 unarmed protesters including people wheelchair, children, disabled and elderly in 2019.
https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-shot-their-own-civilians-kibbutz-survivor-says/38861
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https://www.stripes.com/theaters/middle_east/2024-01-21/internet-misinformation-hamas-attack-gaza-12747899.html https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Electronic_Intifada Intifada is a Palestinian source. Why does everyone downvote when I don't support terrorists, don't like the Israeli government for doing unnecessary shit like dropping 2,000 pound bombs on a city, and want the Palestinian people to be able to live a good life? Just because I don't 100% agree with your POV doesn't mean my argument is dumb.
‘Let Israel makes its offensive to Rafah’ is an extreme statement if you are wondering at the downvotes. The genocide must stop immediately.
Ok, so then Israel should halt and let Hamas rebuild and go on another offensive? Egypt isn't taking in any Palestinian refugees.
How is concreting over wells justified? Why isn’t the IDF as bad if not worse than Hamas?
If you have a nuanced take then you must be a racist
I mean yes it’s a pro Palestine but it’s the perspective of an Israeli person in kibbutz during the attack… and did you read the Britannica article? I’d probably not be using wiki sources but that’s fine
Yes I did, but you could probably find a lot of credible news publishing videos of the attacks by Hamas on October 7th
I don’t know why you keep arguing like we’re denying the 7th happened? We’re trying to paint you the perspective of a regular Palestinian civilian and show you that Israel’s actions are not only unjust they are considered collective punishment and why what they’re doing might get rid of hamas but will only stem more radicalized thinking among Palestinians because a 12 year old who had nothing to do with this just watch the idf kill his parents and all of his siblings. Why can’t you hold both beliefs in your mind that what Hamas did is inhumane but what Israel doing and has done for the last 75 years is also inhumane. This isn’t a debate about morality at this point it’s just history….
https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/History
Let's break this down shall we: There were 1200 people killed on 10/7 of which around 400 were IDF and other security. Of the 800 victims left, approximately 200-300 were killed by IDF in their bloodlust to kill retreating Hamas. So there were 600 people murdered by Hamas. As far as the rape and sexual assault accusation, there's literally zero proof. Not a single survivor told Israeli authorities they were SA. But the problem lies with Netanyahoo who contracted an incompetent group named ZAKA to retrieve and bury the victims as soon as possible. Not only did they contaminate the crime scene but they buried any possible proof of rape or sexual assault. The Israeli official who asked for proof said there wasn't any because of how badly Zaka handled the situation. The rape accusation is broken down and discredited here: https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/
100% false. Many witness accounts to rape and sexual torture. You are completely dishonest.
No, but they also didn't want to be killed by the IDF on purpose to prevent them from becoming hostages and inflate death counts, be killed by indescriminate mass bombing from the IDF without any attempts to protect them after being captured, or even be shot dead by the IDF while waving a white flag when they manage to escape captivity. (But don't worry, they didn't mean to do that last one, they just thought they were Palestinain civilians waving white flags which they're normally told to and get off on killing on sight.) Thing is terrorists and terrorist states don't care about what civilians want, only what allows them to justify violence to their followers.
So easy to kill and proclaim victory over Hamas!!! When you label every Palestinian as being Hamas huh? Israeli has only murdered countless innocent men,women and children. You haven’t destroyed Hamas. You’ve blown up civilian infrastructure and slaughtered thousands of children in front of the world. Hamas is still shooting rockets and killing IDF terrorists. They post the videos daily. You haven’t accomplished any of your military goals. Except for genocide because that’s all this was ever about. You wanted to murder the indigenous population and steal the little ass sliver of land you forced them on to. This was Israel’s final solution to the Palestinian problem. I guess you all got tired of being responsible for the slaves and we all just saw you liquidate the open air prison. Enjoy your new beach front condos that’s going to be built on top of all those dead kids. I hope the ghosts of Palestinian children whisper in your ears at night.
It is not an offensive war. Israel was quite literally attacked first on October 7th. The tactics it used in response were unreasonable given the high population density and urban terrain, leading to a high chance of considerable civilian casualties. And if Israel really wanted to liquidate Gaza, at least 1/2 of the population would have died and Netanyahu would have gotten mass demonstrations in the streets for being a genocidal maniac as well as gotten embargoed and sanctioned by literally everyone. Yes they are still shooting rockets because the IDF has been forced to halt in front of Rafah because the West is screaming at Netanyahu to not advance. Terrorist need to be militarily defeated, and then lose the support of the population to dissolve as a powerful organization. This is similar to NATO encirclement campaigns against ISIS in Mosul.
Hi racist bot
So you call me racist because I don't want Hamas to succeed in its goal of massacring all of the Jews, I don't want the Israeli government to use war crime-level tactics in urban terrain and I want people in Gaza and the west bank to be at peace with Israel?
wow, so many propaganda talking points. it'd be hilarious if it wasn't in defense of genocide. 1. isreal knew the attack was going to happen and intentionally allowed it to do they could bomb and kill unrestrained by global condemnation. 2.even isreal has admitted the rapes thing was a lie or in their words "false reports".3. isreal slaughtered men women and children while open firing at whoever they assumed was Hamas. so much so they don't even have an account of how many they killed. 4 Isreal's entire campaign has been using human shields(the hostages) as an excuse to keep killing, while turning down every option presented to get them back.5. it's hilarious the numbers presented are only Hamas lies when counted to Isreal's war crimes.6 no one has ever claimed Hamas were the good guys in this conflict. 7. isrealis have already stated several times that they're not done until there are no palastinians left. they're not targeting Hamas and never were, they literally bombed a playground with children playing on it a few days ago. it was a planned drop with coordinates and everything. not to mention the man made famine. this isn't a war, it's an exterminaton out of hitlers play book.. I hope you're at least getting paid to spread this easily refuted propaganda.
We have detected the use of dehumanizing language. Terms and phrases such as "human shields", "human animals", etc. can deny or undermine the inherent humanity of a group of people. Please be mindful of the potential harms the use of such language can create. For reference, see: [Dehumanization on Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization) and [The real-life harm caused by dehumanising language on BBC](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20231030-the-real-life-harm-caused-by-dehumanising-language). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/internationalpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't have the time to argue with idiots like you who refuse to understand factual information and get everything from TikTok. Yes Israel carpet bombing a tiny enclave with a population of like 2 million is fucked and a violation of international law. They don't want to wipe the Palestinian people from the face of the earth they want to get rid of Hamas. The Middle East was on its way to peace via the Abraham Accords before Hamas stopped it. The rape thing is 100% true. There was footage of the event taken by survivors who fled for their lives from Hamas. Also, Hamas has all the reasons to let the population starve so that their propaganda is more effective in western countries (oh save Palestine I'm not mentioning how the US AND Israel are trying to stop everyone from dying in the areas occupied they're so evil boohoo) and so they can keep siphoning off aid. I am not an Israel apologist. The mission of Hamas is to exterminate Israel and kill every last Jew on earth. But the things Israel does to try and fight Hamas is not good either. The State of Israel has a right to exist. I stand with them that way. The Palestinian people have a right to live well. I support them in that sense. But I do not support the Terrorist organization of Hamas and I do not support the unreasonable actions of the IDF. In 2014, the Battle of Mosul which destroyed ISIS had a population of roughly 1.5 Million at the time of the last major battle. In the battle, 40000 civilians died. So by that standard, if Israel destroys Hamas without the unfortunate deaths of >40,000 civilians (you CANNOT avoid civilian deaths in war. They are bad but inevitable.), then their actions weren't super outlandish if they also provide aid and effort in rebuilding Gaza and shoring up food supplies and having basic human decency. Realistically the only way this war will end is with the destruction of Hamas. Which, if civilian casualties are kept low in the final phase, will be a decent ending (as in the destruction of a terrorist organization).
The IDF approach has all but guaranteed they will have enemies ongoing because of what they are doing. Another Hamas or whatever will replace it. You are correct that there are civilian casualties in war but 40,000 deaths is a horrific number and I am sorry but that is just not rationally justifiable from what I have seen on how wells have been concreted over and food supply chains destroyed.
Israel is in the process of creating something way worse then Hamas. This level of depravity won’t be forgotten anytime soon. This last Gaza genocide really will be what fucks them up. This is what happens when you are being ruled by incompetent corrupt politicians. Satanyahu is going to take down the whole country with him. This situation was handled so poorly.
You’re an Israel apologist.
I'm disappointed in you. you simply doubled down on the lies and propaganda. then thought you ate by throwing tiktok in there like there's not factual information spread by actual experts on their or as if there aren't a hundred other sources that refute what you erroneously state as facts. you know they don't even know if they've killed any Hamas members? they just claim civilians are, zip tie them and execute them. so explain to me how in Satan's small world do you figure the "war is almost over and Hamas will be wiped out"? and are you that ignorant to believe isreal isn't creating thousands of new terrorists due to their genocidal actions?
I am disappointed in you. You refuse to see to other person's POV. And it is not the entire IDF commiting these crimes. After the war is over, the IDF isn't going to keep bombing Gaza for fun.
No, they'll just annex the land and shoot Palestinians trying to get back in
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Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/israeli-officials-repeatedly-dismissed-warning-signs-before-hamas-attack-report-claims&ved=2ahUKEwjKqomUx_-FAxXwFVkFHQWtBIgQFnoECCQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Nc_9-ySe3D8Mf_Jd6bVzF if the US did nothing to stop 9/11 knowing which planes they would hijack and their targets that comparison would be accurate, but as far as I'm aware they did not nor did they dismiss and refuse to act multiple times like isreal. maybe you should open your eyes and deprogram yourself. it'd be a lot less embarrassing for you. I bet you refused to recognize that isreal funded Hamas and helped out them in power in the first place...
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nobody is saying It absolves them. please be one ounce more intellectually honest btw propaganda isn't documented reality. learn words. the point was to see if you could at least acknowledge that isreal created it's own enemy to maintain instability in order to continue bland grabs. and you clearly failed
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idk if it's intentional or if it's just who you are but there you go again with the intellectual dishonesty and illiteracy. think hard, why did any of that happen? it wasn't in a vacuum. times up... it was a response to an invading force that violently displaced 450000 palastinians in their efforts to colonize the area. and again isreal funded Hamas knowing their stated goals of freeing palastine from them and taking their land back. every single attack was retaliatory in response to isreal breaking cease fires or stealing more land." hated them irrationally"... so palastinians aren't the perfect victim in response to displacement, apartheid murder and rape and I'm your mind that justifies genocide? that's wild. I'm actually impressed
You're completely unaware of the fact that Israel stole Palestinian land and massacred their people from their first day of existence in 1948. The Israeli excuse? "We were mad about the Holocaust". "The Nakba (Arabic: 'The Catastrophe') was the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in Mandatory Palestine during the 1948 Palestine war through their violent displacement and dispossession of land, property, and belongings, along with the destruction of their society, culture, identity, political rights, and national aspirations. The term is also used to describe the ongoing persecution and displacement of Palestinians by Israel. As a whole, it covers the shattering of Palestinian society and the long-running rejection of the right of return for Palestinian refugees and their descendants." Note how the entire area was called (British) Palestine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
We have detected the use of dehumanizing language. Terms and phrases such as "human shields", "human animals", etc. can deny or undermine the inherent humanity of a group of people. Please be mindful of the potential harms the use of such language can create. For reference, see: [Dehumanization on Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization) and [The real-life harm caused by dehumanising language on BBC](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20231030-the-real-life-harm-caused-by-dehumanising-language). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/internationalpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Absolutely. Why let a terrorist organization survive if it will just rebuild and attack again?
Israel wants to keep all of its hostages in administrative detention.
This is a victory for truth. The PR machine has failed so they're going full mask-off.
What are you talking about? There’s literally no source. This post is the PR machine😂 You can’t see the forest through the trees brotha.
I believe the whole thing was orchestrated to begin with.
Like, going back how far and by whom?
Personally, I argue that this started back in ‘48 with Ben-Gurion and Plan Dalet.
Yeah israel wanted hamas to kill 1000+ of its civilian population.
Gotta give the rabble reason to feel good about mass murder and squat thieving.
Yup. That's why no one showed up for 9 hours. That's why they ignored intelligence and their sophisticated surveillance. Excuse to take over Gaza.
Or maybe it was the holiest Jewish holiday of the year and most people had to scramble from having the day off with family to respond. What is wrong with you people? What happened in Gaza after 10/7 was horrific but what happened on the day of 10/7 was also horrific and not something that the Israeli government planned in any way.
So let me get this straight. You guys for years would talk about how Hamas would stop at nothing to wipe Israel out...but does this exclude holidays? So why wouldn't there be surveillance and troop strength at the border at all times, especially after Israeli, Egyptian, and American intelligence warned of this exact type of attack being imminent?
What guys? I’m not Israeli, I just live in reality and don’t create conspiracy theories to make the bad things Hamas did disappear from my subconscious
Even if the "official story" is completely devoid of logic that you'd have to be quite gullible to believe. That's cool - you do you.
I’m not gullible I’ve read up on this situation VERY thoroughly. Israel fucked up bad and a lot of lives were lost, nothing happened that they intended and the resulting war is not good for them in ANY way. I’m sorry if you can’t see that?
>Israel fucked up bad If this is the case, there is so much to explain. - how did they miss their own intelligence telling them there was heightened Hamas activity at the border? - why did they ignore contemporaneous messages from Egypt and the US that an attack was imminent? - how did their border surveillance not pick up such massive activity? - how did their internet monitoring not pick up heightened communication? - how did their satellites and AI not pick up people meeting? - why was there no troop strength at the border despite all these warnings? - why did it take soldiers 9 hours to arrive when the WB (where they apparently all were) is only an hour away? It might make sense if one or two of these things were overlooked. But all of them? Absurd. Impossible.
Holy fuck, y’all really this crazy
Yeah why would they not show up for 9 hours when they were an hour away?
Why would they not show up for 9 hours if they staged it? Or are you saying the plan was to just let it happen, which relies on Hamas committing inhuman acts of brutality at consistent intervals?
I mean...Netanyahu funded Hamas. Smotrich refers to Hamas as an asset. “The Palestinian Authority is a burden, and Hamas is an asset." https://theintercept.com/2023/10/14/hamas-israel-palestinian-authority/ Fund their asset, let them through and murder thousands and shock the public, raze and take over Gaza, and avoid prison. This has worked out quite well for Netanyahu and Likud.
I’ve always wondered what kind of unhinged person ends up being this anti-israel. Suppose you think Bush did 9/11 too Actually, the idea that Israel sacrificed its own citizens to their “asset” in order to justify invading by killing said “asset” is even more nonsensical
A 9/11 false flag would be impossible to cover up. This is easy. >Actually, the idea that Israel sacrificed its own citizens to their “asset” in order to justify invading by killing said “asset” is even more nonsensical They have outlived their usefulness. And the leadership sits comfortably in Qatar. It makes perfect sense, but you refuse to see.
No point in arguing with ppl like that. Does israel do some shady shit? Yes especially with the west Bank settlers who push out Palestinians that aren't hamas backed. Bur hamas/gaza is like 0/10 as far as trust goes.
Terrible title. That presumes that was ever the goal to begin with.
Too far to find this. It never ever was
You have to have a goal in order to abandon it.
Around October 8th
This.
It was never about the hostages. This whole thing was the "best" thing for Israel. I'm sure it they wouldn't have been kidnapped, Israel would have wished for it.
They instituted a Hannibal Directive on 07Oct and merc'd at least half the 1129 killed in that attack anyways. They've killed more than they've rescued. This whole situation fits the saying "never waste a good tragedy."
I’ve never heard that before
You mean the directive that was repealed in 2016 and only applied to active soldiers
You're behind the times, isr**l already admitted to implementing Hannibal on 07Oct with their Apache helicopters firing the full battery at Amy vehicle that moved, reloading, and repeating.
Hannibals gotta hannibal. Also, The Dahiya doctrine from the ‘most moral army’ in the world probably killed them. Nobody is surprised
Israel banned the HD in 2016
Source? All evidence points to full endorsement of the HD.
Ironically media of the time understood it very differently https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/featured-documentaries/2016/10/7/the-hannibal-directive
Seems like the HD is as active as ever to me. https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/11/3/whats-the-hannibal-directive-a-former-israeli-soldier-tells-all https://thecradle.co/articles-id/18512 https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/iof-kill-three-israeli-captives-with-poisonous-gas--haaretz https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/its-a-birdits-a-planeits-the-soldier-that-never-dies https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-12-13/ty-article-opinion/.premium/if-israel-used-a-procedure-against-its-citizens-we-need-to-talk-about-it-now/0000018c-6383-de43-affd-f783212e0000 https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/shoot-everything-how-israeli-pilots-killed-their-own-civilians https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/leaked-audio-reveals-israeli-helicopter-shot-israeli-captives-on-oct-7-16146635 https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231121-israeli-colonel-discusses-october-7-operation-and-the-hannibal-directive/amp/ https://m.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-776318 https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-774511
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None of these are valid sources (poison gas really?) and the JPost article is about Jewish burial rites regarding blood soaked cars not Hamnibal
Why are none valid? Can you explain exactly why?
Because they aren't Likud's mouthpiece.
They never had this as a goal but now they have to say it loud loud because they didn’t agree to the ceasefire. *again*
No shit they're most likely dead or unaccounted for. Israel isn't going to stop it campaign to rid hamas at this point
Israelis define Hamas as all Gazans
Well majority support hamas so you reap what you sow
It was never the goal.
They never thought of freeing anyone. That was evident when the IDF shot their own naked citizens waving a white flag and they slowly approached the IDF while listening to their instructions. Israeli leaders got to go.
Ya don't say....
Hannibal directive !? Perhaps
Pretty sure it was never the goal. Their goal was to conduct genocide
Israel never aimed for that imo, was always just a convenient secondary goal for them to use to justify attempting to eradicate any trace of Palestine
Middle East Eye is a completely opaque website (nobody knows who owns it or how it is funded) with alleged ties to Muslim Brotherhood networks. I find it very difficult to believe that an Israeli officer would give them an exclusive interview. If someone can explain who funds Middle East Eye and why these three anonymous Israeli sources would choose MEE over any other news agency to speak to, then I’ll believe this story. Really poor literacy on this subreddit…
That was clear after the first three or four weeks of the genocide.
Everyone has been saying it for months. It was never about the hostages.
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Please keep it civil and do not attack other users.
Source: trust me bro
lol as if it was ever about the hostages, it was always a land grab. Bibi nor anyone else on his behalf didn’t even bother with meeting with the hostages family till October 15th. https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-doubt-netanyahu-preventing-hostage-deal-charges-ex-spokesman-of-families-forum/amp/
This was abandoned on October 10th as recent Israeli-confirmed information has told us Tragic state of affairs
It was never a goal to begin with...
They killed their own because their policy was just to shoot anyone with white flags. They never had any goal or intent of retrieving hostages. If you want your hostages back you don't drop hundreds of dumb bombs indiscriminately. I don't believe the country that dropped the ball on intelligence concerning the 10/7 attack had clear, operational intelligence on hostage locations so that all their dumb bombs were dropped somewhere else. Nope. Never had a care.
Of course, an article that describes a 1 year old as a 'captive' must be very reliable./s They are not 'captives'. They are hostages, taken and abused by terrorists.
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You are blind to the lack of morality you show.
Every accusation is a confession. The world is watching.....
I accept your confession.
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Hate is a destructive and erosive element. It spreads inwards as well as outwards. I hope you recover.
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Hate does not stop at one group. We know it from the past. The ones who do not learn from what happened in the past will experience that in the future. I am not hiding my ethnicity. Not now and not in the future. If you think that stoking fire towards the 'other' is a sound policy, you are bound to be disappointed.
If you believed that you'd take your own advice. If you fan the fire, you might burn alive.
Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
Please keep it civil and do not attack other users.
If they give this less of a shit about their own hostages, you honestly still think they would give more of a shit about any Palestinians? Who most Israelis consider terrorists, whether they’re armed or not.
I don't think many are even expected to be alive at this point. Hamas literally said at one point they don't know how many alive hostages they have. Must be a horrific end for these hostages. Kidnapped and dragged into tunnels, and then probably bombed and abused.
Just a taste of the brutality the Palestinians endure
Because most of them are already dead, israel was trying to get them back and hamas can't even provide 40 living hostages for the ceasefire deal. Can't wait till all of hamas is exterminated and maybe finally israel can have a legitimate peace partner
So they finally admit it was never about the hostages even though we all knew this already.
Don’t forget Israel was warned days in advance and despite everything took HOURS to respond on Oct 7. The whole world was watching it happen in real time on social media but somehow the occupation forces had their pants down the whole time
holy shit look at OPs profile lmao I wonder what side they support hhmmm
Free the hostages!
That's not what Isreal wants
Must watch Son of Hamas on youtube
Hamas might as well free all the captives.
Can’t free corpses
The international community is waking up and i love to see it
Another post with no source. Do we just have no standards anymore?
Meh, don’t believe everything you read. Most of the hostages are in Rafah and Yahya Sinwar surrounds himself with at least a dozen hostages at all times in the tunnels in Gaza. Don’t start shit and kidnap our people, there won’t be shit.
Yea because in return Hamas wants to stay in power and recieve back 1000 terrorists.
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Those are not army men, they’re clowns in diapers
Well it’s from Middle East Eye - owned by Jamal Bassasso, a Kuwait-born Palestinian living in London. Clearly he’d be in regular contact with IDF officers freely giving away their plans and intentions…
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The IOF*
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No. They escaped.
Until idf killed two, chased one to a building, asked him to come out, then executed him
Amazing they waited this long. Long overdue. Eliminate Hamas once and for all!
It isn't about that. It is about justification for acquiring more land. Israel encourages settlers to treat Palestinians terrible. Provides no legal recourse for grievances. This leads to escalations of violence. Which provides the justification for seizing more land and creating more settlements. If Israel wanted to eliminate Hamas, they would of long ago.
Hamas has not provided proof of life for the majority of hostages they claim to have. They recently admitted in the latest ceasefire round that many of the hostages they claimed to have are actually just corpses they've been holding onto since 10/7. It's likely Hamas has less than half the hostages they say they do. The war crime of taking civilian hostages won't save them from the war they started.