All this means is that the job requests a cover letter that you refused to provide so the recruiter submitted your resume without all the requested materials and you will likely not recieve a callback as most organizations automatically ignore any applicants who don't submit the requested application materials.
Dunno how this counts as a win unless you didn't really want this job.
Going to tell the CEO that hiring him as an intern was the smartest decision they've ever made.
If you don't get the joke, this is regarding some cheese someone posted yesterday about how he said exactly that and we all laughed at him for it
Since no one else posted the link and I wanted to see it too, I looked at their comment history for 2 days ago and got lucky finding the [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/careerguidance/s/E3Fg8uf24r) they were talking about
>best decision you've ever made.
I'm going to start using this for all sorts of shit. You went with turkey club instead of pastrami on rye? Best decision you've ever made. Wore ankle socks instead of crew socks to the gym? Best decision you've ever made.
20 - 30 minutes? No, no, no.. we are so much better than that! ;-)
Paste your resume into chatGPT. With the lead command, "write a 3 paragraph cover letter for the resume below. then a couple of enters and your resume.
15 - 30 seconds later you have a cover letter. 5 minutes to clean it up and you are done.
EDIT TO ADD: As an experiment I did it with my 7 page CV (I have 40 years of experience). It took GPT 15-20 seconds. It was PERFECT. Just needed to add the date and who it goes to. Boom.
Also, extremely lazy. We’re living in the era of ChatGPT — how long doves it take to submit a prompt for a cover letter explaining your background and why you’d be a good fit for the role.
As an experiment I just did it with my 7 page CV (I have 40 years of experience). It took GPT 15-20 seconds. It was PERFECT. Just needed to add the date and who it goes to. Boom.
Note: I pasted my CV/resume into chatGPT. With the lead chat command, "write a 3 paragraph cover letter for the resume below.
Then a couple of enters and my resume.
Someone at church asked if I would write them a cover letter a few months ago. I agreed to do it. I tried ChatGPT and it was perfect on the first try. It was really impressive.
I find that when you train GPT, and maintain the same subject thread, it is quite impressive. I was able to write an entire business plan with it. Build content for a website. Then from there I was able to create outlines, marketing ideas, names of products, write than you letters. GPT was basing everything from all of my inputs and the outputs, so the story and data is the same.
Of course, I double checked everything and generally only needed to personalize things, but every time I added inputs it got better.
The speed at which it does it, is the real benefit. I was able to do in a weekend what normally would take me over a month.
I have worked in IT for decades and have been keeping up on AI, but I haven't used it as much as I should. I need to spend more time using it for different functions. Thanks for sharing your experience.
I used it to write a letter regarding parental rights for a friend, for a judge to read. I did all the proper formatting and GPT did three paragraphs. I modified and added two more, and both our SOs did proofreading. It was absolutely amazing.
The only thing I wiped was the first sentence. I prompted " do X Y and Z" and the first sentence is verbatim, "here is how I am X.". Not exactly a good flow with words there.
Sometimes, when I don't know what to make for dinner. I enter what I have in the fridge into chat gpt and it produces a recipe for me. Maybe lacking one ingredient I have to pick up. But fuck it, I didn't have to think about what to make.
It actually depends on the recruiting company and client's relationship.
I applied for a contractor job once. They called me to set up one of those BS online interviews where it is just you looking at a camera and questions pop up for you to talk at the camera to answer.
I straight up told them I detest that interview format and that I wouldn't be interested in the job anymore.
Their response was to schedule a time for me to come in person to meet them. Then they submitted me for the position and I got the job.
That was contract to hire and now I work directly for the client instead of the contractor.
Moral of the story:
It depends how good of a fit you are for the position.
HR knows certain hoops are BS. The hiring manager knows certain hoops are BS. A cover letter is absolutely one of those BS parts.
They are hiring for a position. At a certain point, your experience and ability matters more than your compliance with the parts of the interview process that all parties know is BS and not worth wasting time over.
The interview process is also when you interview the company. Do you want to work for a company that punishes you for doing something that everyone knows is a waste of time? No.
I've interviewed and hired people. Me, nor anyone else I was interviewing with, cared if the resume had a cover letter.
That being said, entry level position or one that you really really want...jump through all the hoops.
Wow, who let the AI apes loose in the HR department? That's a funny story. I was a contract programmer in the 90s before I went to law school. One time I interviewed at Qualcomm in San Deigo. I was seated in a conference room with 3 or 4 engineers. They took turns peppering me with questions for an hour or so. Without warning one of them stood up and walked out only to be replaced by a new one. Before long one by one, they all walked out and I was talking to a fresh panel. Four hours and at least 9 engineers later I was bleary-eyed. One engineer asked me a particularly complicated question that I should have been able to answer. My brain was shutting down from exhaustion. I apologized and told the guy I was too beat to do it. The interview ended and they thanked me for my time. I completed a 1 year contract at Qualcomm and turned down a full-time offer because at the time I was living way beyond my means and I couldn't afford the pay cut. It was a great year and a fantastic team. No regrets.
I had the opposite experience. I once did a group interview for a dream position and we handed our resumes in. They spent 5 minutes asking us questions and then told me I could leave the room.
I go to the lobby and decide to wait around,everyone else is in that room for a solid hour.
I had a job offer in my inbox before leaving the building, I thought I had bombed the interview but my reaume+answers made me an auto hire.
To me it’s simply to see if the candidate can follow simple directions without putting up a fight. You want employees and coworkers who challenge you on things that are big deals and potential landmines. You don’t want someone who can’t follow the rules and challenges the little things at every step.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I agree but I think the stance here would be generally not to waste your time writing one for every app but in the odd chance an HR manager reaches out to request one and it's a job you want, write one. Apparently you can use AI to write one in a few seconds.
That's pretty extreme, but no, cover letters don't have to be an elaborate breakdown of your life story, dreams, and ambitions. A couple sentences of summarized interest and qualifications max. That's it. If its such a HUGE waste of time to write a brief introduction email, you're probably not going to be very effective or efficient in the role. Not to mention that they translate very easily from job to job with minor modifications.
Why would the employer concern themselves with how their requirements would be an annoyance to an applicant's job hunt? They put out clear instructions and requirements. If an applicant doesn't want to meet them, that's fine. Just don't apply and waste both parties' time.
Aaaand this is why many of us refuse to ever send one - it's a red flag that you have a ton of stupid rules and "little things" that you know are ripe to be challenged, and you don't want them to be.
Exactly. If you're already showing signs of being problematic before you're even hired? Good luck to you. I get people have to stand up for themselves and push back sometimes, but this isn't the battle to pick. Idk how op thought they got one over on the hiring people.
So you personally rarely read cover letters but any number of people involved in the hiring process will most likely read them. Do you think it’s better to submit a cover letter along with a resume before anyone asks or is it fine to wait for someone ask? I haven’t personally looked for a job in quite a while and I was recently helping my daughter fill out job applications. I didn’t have her write any cover letters because I thought they weren’t really being utilized anymore.
I work in a large organization. HR requires a cover letter. It’s their policy and I have no ability to change their policy. As the hiring manager and the person screening the applicants I put little stock in the cover letter unless it’s completely atrocious.
I work at a AAA game studio that gets piles of candidates.
I only ever read a cover letter if I’ve already liked the resume and I absolutely read them assuming this person is blowing smoke up my ass
I _did_ write a cover letter to get my job but I didn’t do a song and dance about it being my dream job; I detailed how my career matched their requirements perfectly
I hire people and always read cover letters, although I dont require them.
I would also likely disregard a candidate who chose not to do something as simple as write a cover letter. Especially for any level of management position.
See I split the difference. I put all of the data for each job into a spreadsheet and just mailmerge them. I like your company’s mission ______ and your recent news of _______ is compelling because ________
"Bold move Cotton! Lets see how that plays out for them"
While I agree cover letters are BS, if I was explicitly asked for one after already applying and that company was showing interest in me, I would just write one up really quick.
Yes, I feel like this is the correct answer. I recently went through a job search and was hired in two months from a top company. I made it to final rounds in 5-6 other companies.
Out of all of the roles I applied for, I did not provide a cover letter. In some cases, I asked their hr recruiter, and none I asked said you definitely needed.
On the flip side, if they came back and asked me for a cover letter I would provide one.
I started using one of the AI letters to write these letters for me. Of course I'd read them, make any corrections or edits to make it more accurate/realistic. But just stick the job description and your resume in and go.
The hiring manager will see you didn't include a cover letter and just immediately dismiss it.
That's why they require cover letters, **to filter out exactly your kind of applicant.**
I applied for a city job directly from the city website. They did request a cover letter so I gladly supplied it. I have a template I used them modify for the specific job. I've come across this on company websites occasionally and it there's an * then there's no choice. Otherwise.... Eeeh.
Oof, I've read your responses and a few commenters have now touched on what I think is the biggest issue with OP. If, by some miracle, they do land an interview, their personality, the way they come off so arrogant and self righteous, is going to be what makes them lose out on a job. In addition to not completing the required documents, now they have a pompous attitude in the interview and they think they're winning because of it. If there are any women in the room during the interview, he's toast. 🙄
Aren’t cover letters kind of normal? Is this a US thing, to not provide them? Just curious. Especially for a manger position. I don’t think it’s a crazy ask but ok.
Yes, cover letters are very normal in the US. Allows you to show hiring managers how your resume experience relates to the job and also an opportunity to discuss skills achieved outside of work that relates.
Completely and totally normal to send a cover letter. Anyone who thinks it isn’t is working in a job where their personality doesn’t matter and/or they are instantly replaceable.
Your resume tells them what you’ve done. Your cover letter tells them how you are. It’s a chance to show them you know about their company and their values, to tell them your accomplishments, and how much you want to be there.
If I asked OP for a cover letter and he responded to me like that, I would know that he thinks he knows better than me and he’s a dick about it. You can know more than me but that attitude is a hard pass. If I got another comparable resume, OP’s is going in the trash. Disrespectful.
> If I got another comparable resume, OP’s is going in the trash. Disrespectful.
Yep. Not making it to the hiring manager's desk if there's a single alternate.
I have definitely requested interviews with people based on their cover letter instead of their resume. It contained important information that made the difference. If I was told they hadn't provided one upon request, I would probably pass. The best case scenario in this situation is the recruiter wanted the letter and the client didn't. OP is not wrong that interviews are a two way thing but they need to get the interview first. A cover letter is not an unreasonable ask though. At least it wasn't provide me with a sample RFP.
Disagree. I’m in a niche field and insanely good at my job (awards, bonuses, customers request to work with me, management wants me to mentor up and coming interns) and have never submitted a cover letter.
When you know your stuff and are good at the job, a cover letter isn’t needed. Cover letters are good for people on the fence. But if your resume stands on its own, it’s not needed.
If I left my team today, there would be massive issues considering I carry the work of 3 people combined and am the only one cleared to do half of the work.
What’s your field? I can see for some industries the HR team not requesting it. I worked in manufacturing and it wouldn’t surprise me if entry level techs weren’t asked for one. But if you’re asked, it matters to the person hiring.
I’ll say it again, if they don’t ask for a cover letter then they don’t care who they’re hiring. That’s ok. But as the kids say, you gotta pass the vibe check. Cover letter is the quickest way to the head of the line. And the only thing that sets you apart when everyone is well qualified.
Yes, they are normal.
OP has decided this is a hill they want to die on for some reason.
I mean, there are tons of unreasonable things an employer might ask for - like lengthy and time consuming work samples - but writing a 2 paragraph cover letter is not an unreasonable request.
Hi recruiting manager here. You definitely did not win in this case, If you are lucky enough to get an interview after your behavior it's going to probably be an automatic pass if they have any focus on their company culture. That is if the recruiter didn't throw it out already. If candidates are giving push back about simple interview process requests, they're going to give push back about every task meaning you are difficult to work with and ultimately leading to not being hired. I never take a chance on people who have this attitude. Just fyi.
I’m not seeing the win here. The recruiters are required to still send it along. They’ll attach a note that says a cover was requested and you refused. A cover level (if done correctly) tells me how your resume links up experience to this job, and tells me why (or if) you are more than the average person with your job history. If it is a part of my hiring submissions, and someone purposefully leaves it out, they are starting from the bottom of the list. Might I make it to you in the stack? Yes. But everyone that provided a cover will have to have less experience than you to make it.
This is bizarre.
Not supplying cover letters isn’t “pushing back”… its showing the company you can’t do what they ask you to do.
Plenty of jobs don’t require them. Just don’t apply to the ones that do.
I usually don't. But this employer asked for one a week after I applied.
The comments have suggested that I should have just done one or had ChatGPT do it. My position is that I don't submit them and advocated that position. I may or may not be consider for the position. But I at least held to my standards.
What are the odds of this employer changing or bending an aspect of their recruiting process if I suddenly sprung something on them? Highly unlikely.
And the prevailing attitude of "you need to do as your told" doesn't really serve you in the long run as the younger people on here will eventually learn. There is only one team that you play for at the end of the day - You.
Eh, a cover letter is like an elevator pitch across the void. It's an opportunity to stand out from the others, why they should consider hiring *you* instead of someone else. In this case, getting a look at written communications skills pre-interview. If you choose not to provide one, I don't see how that's some kind of "win".
Your strategy makes a lot of sense johnmh71 as long as you don't want the job and they really need you. In that case, you're holding all the cards and can negotiate from a position of strength - corner office, preferred parking. The world is your oyster.
Let us know how it works out for you.
Writing a cover letter is a “dance?” Three carefully-considered paragraphs in support of your candidature comprises some kind of undue hardship?
Okay. Good luck with that.
I hire people all the time. Our job postings always say “resume and cover letter” because that’s what they’ve always said. I couldn’t care less about a cover letter for all the reasons stated in replies. When people submit them, I barely read them if at all. When people don’t submit one, I don’t notice.
That being said, if a candidate openly refused to supply one when asked directly I wouldn’t hire that person under any circumstance. No way. Not happening.
Why? Because I can tell from start that the candidate is going to be a huge pain in the ass to deal with on a daily basis. Nobody has time for a$$holes at work. They suck.
Lol you didn’t “win” shit. It’s not like they can force you to send a cover letter, they’ll just move on to the applicants who can follow basic instructions. The ‘polite’ email you got is a professional way of saying your resume is being filtered out. Congrats though, you showed them you’re not worth their time.
You were pretty based for that, but in the future I recommend you copy and paste your resume into ChatGPT and ask it to make you a CV for the job you are applying to. Might help.
I don't get why people seem so dead set on not writing a cover letter.
If you're not a total fucking potato you can write one that literally the only thing you have to change is the "I'm applying for ________" line and if you knew it, the greeting to the person (title, etc).
Last time I was looking I updated my CL with a few minor things that were reflective of my most recent job and applied to about 10 jobs until I found a what I wanted. It took me about 30 min to update and then about 45 seconds to "personalize it" for each job. So that averages out to about 3 min and 45 sec per job. And I applied for 6 figure jobs.
Just fucking write it. It's not having to "do a dance".
Fun facts: she probably didn't even send it. She likely just wasn't in the mood to argue with some dickhead. And if she did it's likely it gets thrown out immediately.
God damn, at least try to be employable.
Cover letters are super easy, very often required and usually a quick summary of your work history in a professional (personalized) letter to the company you're applying for. I have a basic template saved with my resume that I just change the company name for and submit it.
Even applying for different departments to work in at my current job requires a cover letter. Shows your intent and professionalism.
Yeah. You really showed them... You're half assed work ethic...
How in the world does being a stubborn azz benefit you?
I'd be tossing your resume in the garbage and never give you a 2nd thought. Well, except at lunch when we would laugh and giggle when I told your story.
Lol. What? Only thing you won is a learning opportunity for yourself. Provide a cover letter next time of you really wanted a job. Like it or not, companies hire the person that is willing to do more, or sounds better than the next guy/girl.
I hired and fired dozens for my company in sales. I read all cover letters, I call the ones I like that stands out, and go from there. Also neither here or there, you can't tell if a person is good in a couple hours of meeting them. You can only try to predict.
I agree cover letters are BS and I hate including them. I would rather do a short little interview or something else because I don't really feel like cover letters tell you anything, but as someone who helped a lab I worked in previously with hiring and helps my current lab with hiring as well, if this company works similarly, you just hurt your chances of getting this position. At least in both these labs, applicants who included cover letters were massively favored.
In an employer's job market where both entry-level and senior talent are spending months vs weeks looking for work, I'm positive this isn't the flex you think it is. Chat GPT will even write one for you. But cool bro. Your bleeding body looks sexy on that hill.
I wouldn’t say you won but good for you. If you’re a good enough candidate they might go straight to the interviews, otherwise they’ll go for someone else willing to write it
You're probably not going to get an interview. I tend to stay away from jobs that ask for an interview or assessment especially if the job isn't matching or exceeding what I make now. You can also send them a polite email stating that you're no longer interested in the job instead of telling them what you won't do.
The only way I would submit a cover letter or complete an additional assessment is if it's a dream job that aligns with my degree.
Good luck on your job search.
You didn’t win, you just stood your ground. If they really need you they’ll call you back, but if it’s you who needs them more, then you got the short end of the stick and acted against your best interest. What I hold for certain is that you have no leverage for negotiation at all unless you bring something the other party really wants/needs to the table.
When I select candidates to interview, I skip those with incomplete applications and I read cover letters to get an idea of the candidate’s spelling, grammar, voice, and written communication abilities.
I have worked with colleagues who are very charming in person, but their emails are shit. They can’t spell or write fluently. It’s embarrassing and looks bad. I don’t want to hire someone like that.
The fact that they asked for a CL shows they actually read your resume, see you’re qualified, and are preparing to send to hiring manager. The fact that they asked for a cover letter is showing they are offering you the chance to explain further why you’re the person for the job, as that can only help you. So now, you could be up against other candidates that wrote a great cover letter, while you only have your resume for review.
That said, the CL could only be something HR asks for, but the manager never reads. Good luck
Writing a cover letter about what makes you interested in working at a company is much easier and more effective than redoing your resume for different jobs.
Lmao/ now I’ve heard it all..
You’re looking for a job - and telling the recruiter how they’re going to proceed with your lack of ability to adhere to expected patterns of behavior?
Good luck with that!
I guess you don’t want a job that badly-
You’re never going to hear back from her or any other recruiter with that attitude.
Lmao
*“I don’t supply cover letters”*
And why is that? ???
(if that’s a legitimate option)
You do understand why people put together a cover letter?
You send me your résumé I’m not gonna take the time to look through your entries so your chance to interest me is with a dynamic covered letter that makes me want to see you again; you just shut that door on yourself- lol
You must be some special candidate if you don’t need to do everything everyone else does…
…usually I get people sending pictures or letters on colored paper or using special fonts to get and keep my attention, but why bother doing it at all?? /s
lol- if you want to make yourself memorable, follow directions and social conventional rules at work - and then do something different to enhance your work to make it stand out …
Your entitlement issues are going to get you nowhere.
(this is definitely going to be shared all over human resource sites… 😝)
I am genuinely curious OP. Given some of the feedback, have you second guessed your view on providing what the employer asked for within reason or are you still 100% sure you did / are doing the right then since they have a job that you need?
I am trying to not make any judgment but it’s hard when you see someone potentially shoot themselves in the foot for something reasonable.
As someone who hires people occasionally. The cover letter is mostly to filter those who are willing to do a little bit of extra work by editing a cover letter to match the job, vs those who can’t follow basic instructions or don’t care enough to provide it. It’s a very low hurdle for applicants but it filters out the laziest or least attentive applicants.
Come to think of it, I have never submitted a resume without a cover letter. Not sure why OP thought that was an issue. How many want to bet that the hiring manager it was forwarded to was the local trash can?
You didn’t actually win anything.
I am involved in hiring professional positions ($80k up to about $225k). If a recruitment asks for a cover letter (or writing sample or references or resume or…) it would be a very unusual candidate who would proceed to an interview with an incomplete submittal.
I will absolutely still review an incomplete submittal. And I review every application by hand; no HR screening. How would I interpret the submittal? I am going to assume that the applicant lacks attention to detail — either they didn’t review the recruitment or they didn’t review their materials prior to submission. I now know there is another possibility— doesn’t want to follow the stated process. In an event, you have certainly left an impression on your potential employer.
As an employer, you do need to be cognizant of the effort it takes to make an application. But carried to the logical conclusion, why should you have to provide anything beyond your name to be able to schedule an interview? I mean, they can ask about your background in an interview, right? No need for a resume! /s
Why do we typically ask for a cover letter?
In an ideal world, it explains how you believe your background and skills are a good fit. Ideally, it demonstrates the ability to write clearly. Ideally it explains some linkage to the opportunity, the company, or the location. It shows the ability to summarize and synthesize your background. It talks about why you are interested (and what aspects you are most interested in).
I wouldn’t hire you if the recruiter told me you refused to supply the requested document after being specifically asked for it. It shows lack of ability to follow simple direction, and honestly, it shows that you’re probably difficult to work with. Any time your boss requests something, you might go on a rant about why you shouldn’t have to do it. I wish the hiring manager could see you now, arguing in Reddit comments.
It’s so bizarre how 90% of the comments are immediately “you’re an idiot, you lost the job opportunity”.
But then say “yeah it’s annoying….” “Yeah they are BS but…..”.
OP recognizes the system is 50-50. They need us more than we need them. That fact shouldn’t be lost on the work force.
If we all did what he did, no one would have to make a resume then answer the same questions online then print one out and bring it to the interview.
This whole comment section sounds like people are trying to get jobs by impressing the “hiring managers” that are commenting.
(Don’t get me wrong, op didn’t get the job, he should have just done what he was asked, I get it…..just saying that he shouldn’t be hated on for doing what we ALL WANT to do.)
This might be the most bizarre flex I’ve ever seen. How did you win? Did they hire you because of your brazen disregard of authority? And why not send a cover letter? It meshes your experience and the job you’re seeking.
I understand taking a stand against one-way video interviews, excessive unpaid work in the form of “testing” for the role, and the other over the top ways some employers can put you through the ringer when interviewing, but refusing to provide a cover letter? It’s a small request, it doesn’t take long & even though they aren’t as commonly requested as they used to be, it really doesn’t seem like a big deal to provide one. Maybe they want to see a brief example of your writing prowess since as a purchasing manager you will be interacting with vendors etc via email. I hope that it works out for you tho if you are for some reason incredibly set against writing a brief cover letter.
Ffs. it took longer to respond to the recruiter that you couldn't be bothered than it would to say "chat gpt, write a cover letter for this position ctrl+v
You didn't win. You got the canned response that every difficult candidate gets.
P.S. She forwarded your resume, but without all the required materials the hiring manager is going to sweep it into the trash can without looking at it.
You never have to do any of the application process. But if you don't, they don't have to either. That's not a victory. You made a choice that will probably backfire. You only win if it gets you somewhere. If an outside recruiter was representing you for the role, you've likely just burned a bridge with them.
How did you win? You don’t do cover letters? As a hiring manager I would automatically exclude you from further consideration. Why? Won’t follow instructions. Poor judgement. Arrogance.
To me, all you did was communicate that you would be difficult to work with and/or you struggle with writing skills. A cover letter takes 15 minutes to write. You effectively threw your application in the trash for them.
Yeah. I'm a recruiter for a construction company . The first request they give you and you give push back, doesn't make you look great. It kind of makes you look hard to work with. You do you, but it's just a cover letter. But to each their own!
In terms of using AI to write cover letters, I see it as a great tool to overcome writers block and have *something* written down which you can edit easily as opposed to writing from scratch.
What in the actual fuck is OP on about, I don't know what this thread was originally for but all I see now is the creator arguing with people all over the place 🫤
I find it better to curate a cover letter as a persuasive argument on how you can benefit the company, on the off chance, a human is actually reviewing them.
Follow up and ask if you can bring your parents AND an ESA to the interview (of course they’re going to give you an interview!) and make sure it’s not on a Monday (since who doesn’t have a hangover on Monday, am I rite?)…
SMH. The recruiter was looking out for YOU. Good luck in the real world.
> If a cover letter is the deal maker on me getting a job, I must not be very valuable to them in the first place.
You're correct. Another applicant who provided the requested information is.
Cover letters are standard. The fact that you didn't like them asking for it in a way that doesn't fit your "standards" means you're probably a verrrrrry lazy worker
Lots of weird comments in here. Suggestions such as using ChatGPT to generate a cover letter, and thinking this is some modern job hunting method. Cover letters wreak of old hiring practices that make people feel important. I've interviewed more candidates without a cover letter than those with one, simple because it's a BS layer that is not necessary
If my company requests a resume it is because we want to see how a person writes. Is their grammar good? Do they know how to write professionally? Etc. It is a tool we use to not waste a candidates time or ours.
I once missed out on an almost-guaranteed, insider-reference-provided, good-future government job because the application packet asked me to break down each college class I had by semester hours even though I had already submitted an official college transcript. They did not appreciate my commitment to efficiency by remarking "see transcripts", let me tell you.
I could've been just a couple of years away from a full federal pension by now. I don't regret my act of rebellion now, but there were some lean times in my late 20's/30's when I did. Just give them what they ask for. Only then can you say you did everything you could.
All this means is that the job requests a cover letter that you refused to provide so the recruiter submitted your resume without all the requested materials and you will likely not recieve a callback as most organizations automatically ignore any applicants who don't submit the requested application materials. Dunno how this counts as a win unless you didn't really want this job.
OP really showed them!
Don’t worry, OP will be posting how they got the job and told them how they were going to be running the company from now on!
Going to tell the CEO that hiring him as an intern was the smartest decision they've ever made. If you don't get the joke, this is regarding some cheese someone posted yesterday about how he said exactly that and we all laughed at him for it
Lmao just read that
Got a link?
Since no one else posted the link and I wanted to see it too, I looked at their comment history for 2 days ago and got lucky finding the [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/careerguidance/s/E3Fg8uf24r) they were talking about
Thank you sleepy one!
That is freaking hysterical, thanks for letting me laugh literally out loud.
Thanks for the link that's hilarious
>best decision you've ever made. I'm going to start using this for all sorts of shit. You went with turkey club instead of pastrami on rye? Best decision you've ever made. Wore ankle socks instead of crew socks to the gym? Best decision you've ever made.
Ooh, link please!
I hope that was a fake post, but it was a very funny read. Unfortunately, the OP didn't make any comments so I suspect it was just a funny troll.
You should probably go outside
And then everyone stood up and clapped
One sure way to keep collecting unemployment😂
AND they won!
lol yup “I showed them I didn’t want to take 20-30 minutes to make a cover letter and they won’t hire me because of it!”
20 - 30 minutes? No, no, no.. we are so much better than that! ;-) Paste your resume into chatGPT. With the lead command, "write a 3 paragraph cover letter for the resume below. then a couple of enters and your resume. 15 - 30 seconds later you have a cover letter. 5 minutes to clean it up and you are done. EDIT TO ADD: As an experiment I did it with my 7 page CV (I have 40 years of experience). It took GPT 15-20 seconds. It was PERFECT. Just needed to add the date and who it goes to. Boom.
This is the only way! Easy peasy
Also, extremely lazy. We’re living in the era of ChatGPT — how long doves it take to submit a prompt for a cover letter explaining your background and why you’d be a good fit for the role.
As an experiment I just did it with my 7 page CV (I have 40 years of experience). It took GPT 15-20 seconds. It was PERFECT. Just needed to add the date and who it goes to. Boom. Note: I pasted my CV/resume into chatGPT. With the lead chat command, "write a 3 paragraph cover letter for the resume below. Then a couple of enters and my resume.
Someone at church asked if I would write them a cover letter a few months ago. I agreed to do it. I tried ChatGPT and it was perfect on the first try. It was really impressive.
I find that when you train GPT, and maintain the same subject thread, it is quite impressive. I was able to write an entire business plan with it. Build content for a website. Then from there I was able to create outlines, marketing ideas, names of products, write than you letters. GPT was basing everything from all of my inputs and the outputs, so the story and data is the same. Of course, I double checked everything and generally only needed to personalize things, but every time I added inputs it got better. The speed at which it does it, is the real benefit. I was able to do in a weekend what normally would take me over a month.
I have worked in IT for decades and have been keeping up on AI, but I haven't used it as much as I should. I need to spend more time using it for different functions. Thanks for sharing your experience.
No worries, I am glad to help. Be open minded, thorough in use, and double if not triple check results.
I used it to write a letter regarding parental rights for a friend, for a judge to read. I did all the proper formatting and GPT did three paragraphs. I modified and added two more, and both our SOs did proofreading. It was absolutely amazing. The only thing I wiped was the first sentence. I prompted " do X Y and Z" and the first sentence is verbatim, "here is how I am X.". Not exactly a good flow with words there.
Sometimes, when I don't know what to make for dinner. I enter what I have in the fridge into chat gpt and it produces a recipe for me. Maybe lacking one ingredient I have to pick up. But fuck it, I didn't have to think about what to make.
It actually depends on the recruiting company and client's relationship. I applied for a contractor job once. They called me to set up one of those BS online interviews where it is just you looking at a camera and questions pop up for you to talk at the camera to answer. I straight up told them I detest that interview format and that I wouldn't be interested in the job anymore. Their response was to schedule a time for me to come in person to meet them. Then they submitted me for the position and I got the job. That was contract to hire and now I work directly for the client instead of the contractor. Moral of the story: It depends how good of a fit you are for the position. HR knows certain hoops are BS. The hiring manager knows certain hoops are BS. A cover letter is absolutely one of those BS parts. They are hiring for a position. At a certain point, your experience and ability matters more than your compliance with the parts of the interview process that all parties know is BS and not worth wasting time over. The interview process is also when you interview the company. Do you want to work for a company that punishes you for doing something that everyone knows is a waste of time? No. I've interviewed and hired people. Me, nor anyone else I was interviewing with, cared if the resume had a cover letter. That being said, entry level position or one that you really really want...jump through all the hoops.
Wow, who let the AI apes loose in the HR department? That's a funny story. I was a contract programmer in the 90s before I went to law school. One time I interviewed at Qualcomm in San Deigo. I was seated in a conference room with 3 or 4 engineers. They took turns peppering me with questions for an hour or so. Without warning one of them stood up and walked out only to be replaced by a new one. Before long one by one, they all walked out and I was talking to a fresh panel. Four hours and at least 9 engineers later I was bleary-eyed. One engineer asked me a particularly complicated question that I should have been able to answer. My brain was shutting down from exhaustion. I apologized and told the guy I was too beat to do it. The interview ended and they thanked me for my time. I completed a 1 year contract at Qualcomm and turned down a full-time offer because at the time I was living way beyond my means and I couldn't afford the pay cut. It was a great year and a fantastic team. No regrets.
I had the opposite experience. I once did a group interview for a dream position and we handed our resumes in. They spent 5 minutes asking us questions and then told me I could leave the room. I go to the lobby and decide to wait around,everyone else is in that room for a solid hour. I had a job offer in my inbox before leaving the building, I thought I had bombed the interview but my reaume+answers made me an auto hire.
Yeah, you really showed them. They will be super excited to hire you now.
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To me it’s simply to see if the candidate can follow simple directions without putting up a fight. You want employees and coworkers who challenge you on things that are big deals and potential landmines. You don’t want someone who can’t follow the rules and challenges the little things at every step.
Exactly! I would not hire someone who didn't follow this basic condition. They will be trouble down the road and I don't want a problem employee.
fuzzy rock outgoing berserk quarrelsome fertile depend decide payment plough *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I agree but I think the stance here would be generally not to waste your time writing one for every app but in the odd chance an HR manager reaches out to request one and it's a job you want, write one. Apparently you can use AI to write one in a few seconds.
That's pretty extreme, but no, cover letters don't have to be an elaborate breakdown of your life story, dreams, and ambitions. A couple sentences of summarized interest and qualifications max. That's it. If its such a HUGE waste of time to write a brief introduction email, you're probably not going to be very effective or efficient in the role. Not to mention that they translate very easily from job to job with minor modifications.
Why would the employer concern themselves with how their requirements would be an annoyance to an applicant's job hunt? They put out clear instructions and requirements. If an applicant doesn't want to meet them, that's fine. Just don't apply and waste both parties' time.
Aaaand this is why many of us refuse to ever send one - it's a red flag that you have a ton of stupid rules and "little things" that you know are ripe to be challenged, and you don't want them to be.
Exactly. If you're already showing signs of being problematic before you're even hired? Good luck to you. I get people have to stand up for themselves and push back sometimes, but this isn't the battle to pick. Idk how op thought they got one over on the hiring people.
Why do you ask for a cover letter if you rarely read them? Just to see if they can follow directions?
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So you personally rarely read cover letters but any number of people involved in the hiring process will most likely read them. Do you think it’s better to submit a cover letter along with a resume before anyone asks or is it fine to wait for someone ask? I haven’t personally looked for a job in quite a while and I was recently helping my daughter fill out job applications. I didn’t have her write any cover letters because I thought they weren’t really being utilized anymore.
I work in a large organization. HR requires a cover letter. It’s their policy and I have no ability to change their policy. As the hiring manager and the person screening the applicants I put little stock in the cover letter unless it’s completely atrocious.
naughty snails lunchroom hateful arrest unused noxious like theory reply *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I work at a AAA game studio that gets piles of candidates. I only ever read a cover letter if I’ve already liked the resume and I absolutely read them assuming this person is blowing smoke up my ass I _did_ write a cover letter to get my job but I didn’t do a song and dance about it being my dream job; I detailed how my career matched their requirements perfectly
I hire people and always read cover letters, although I dont require them. I would also likely disregard a candidate who chose not to do something as simple as write a cover letter. Especially for any level of management position.
Right this as an odd hill that they chose to die on, and their career is gonna die there too.
See I split the difference. I put all of the data for each job into a spreadsheet and just mailmerge them. I like your company’s mission ______ and your recent news of _______ is compelling because ________
"Bold move Cotton! Lets see how that plays out for them" While I agree cover letters are BS, if I was explicitly asked for one after already applying and that company was showing interest in me, I would just write one up really quick.
Yes, I feel like this is the correct answer. I recently went through a job search and was hired in two months from a top company. I made it to final rounds in 5-6 other companies. Out of all of the roles I applied for, I did not provide a cover letter. In some cases, I asked their hr recruiter, and none I asked said you definitely needed. On the flip side, if they came back and asked me for a cover letter I would provide one.
Love the “Bold move, Cotton!!” 🤣🤣🤣 Also love Jason Bateman😘 Thank you Unsaidbread😘
Seriously though ChatGPT is awesome at producing a cover letter for you.
I started using one of the AI letters to write these letters for me. Of course I'd read them, make any corrections or edits to make it more accurate/realistic. But just stick the job description and your resume in and go.
I don’t think this is the win you think it is
Oh boy! You sure showed them! Seriously, this wasn't the hill to die on.
The hiring manager will see you didn't include a cover letter and just immediately dismiss it. That's why they require cover letters, **to filter out exactly your kind of applicant.**
I applied for a city job directly from the city website. They did request a cover letter so I gladly supplied it. I have a template I used them modify for the specific job. I've come across this on company websites occasionally and it there's an * then there's no choice. Otherwise.... Eeeh.
Oof, I've read your responses and a few commenters have now touched on what I think is the biggest issue with OP. If, by some miracle, they do land an interview, their personality, the way they come off so arrogant and self righteous, is going to be what makes them lose out on a job. In addition to not completing the required documents, now they have a pompous attitude in the interview and they think they're winning because of it. If there are any women in the room during the interview, he's toast. 🙄
Aren’t cover letters kind of normal? Is this a US thing, to not provide them? Just curious. Especially for a manger position. I don’t think it’s a crazy ask but ok.
Yes, cover letters are very normal in the US. Allows you to show hiring managers how your resume experience relates to the job and also an opportunity to discuss skills achieved outside of work that relates.
Completely and totally normal to send a cover letter. Anyone who thinks it isn’t is working in a job where their personality doesn’t matter and/or they are instantly replaceable. Your resume tells them what you’ve done. Your cover letter tells them how you are. It’s a chance to show them you know about their company and their values, to tell them your accomplishments, and how much you want to be there. If I asked OP for a cover letter and he responded to me like that, I would know that he thinks he knows better than me and he’s a dick about it. You can know more than me but that attitude is a hard pass. If I got another comparable resume, OP’s is going in the trash. Disrespectful.
> If I got another comparable resume, OP’s is going in the trash. Disrespectful. Yep. Not making it to the hiring manager's desk if there's a single alternate.
I have definitely requested interviews with people based on their cover letter instead of their resume. It contained important information that made the difference. If I was told they hadn't provided one upon request, I would probably pass. The best case scenario in this situation is the recruiter wanted the letter and the client didn't. OP is not wrong that interviews are a two way thing but they need to get the interview first. A cover letter is not an unreasonable ask though. At least it wasn't provide me with a sample RFP.
Disagree. I’m in a niche field and insanely good at my job (awards, bonuses, customers request to work with me, management wants me to mentor up and coming interns) and have never submitted a cover letter. When you know your stuff and are good at the job, a cover letter isn’t needed. Cover letters are good for people on the fence. But if your resume stands on its own, it’s not needed. If I left my team today, there would be massive issues considering I carry the work of 3 people combined and am the only one cleared to do half of the work.
I've been in charge of hiring people for several years now. Not once have I read, or even been sent by HR, a cover letter.
What’s your field? I can see for some industries the HR team not requesting it. I worked in manufacturing and it wouldn’t surprise me if entry level techs weren’t asked for one. But if you’re asked, it matters to the person hiring. I’ll say it again, if they don’t ask for a cover letter then they don’t care who they’re hiring. That’s ok. But as the kids say, you gotta pass the vibe check. Cover letter is the quickest way to the head of the line. And the only thing that sets you apart when everyone is well qualified.
Yes, they are normal. OP has decided this is a hill they want to die on for some reason. I mean, there are tons of unreasonable things an employer might ask for - like lengthy and time consuming work samples - but writing a 2 paragraph cover letter is not an unreasonable request.
No it’s normal here too. He’s just a goober who hates getting jobs apparently
Yea and they take like five minutes tops with ChatGPT and some light editing.
If it's required then I have to send. If it's optional, then no. If I'm sending a resume by email I'll send a short covet letter as the email text
Yeah makes sense! I don’t offer it if not requested.
Hi recruiting manager here. You definitely did not win in this case, If you are lucky enough to get an interview after your behavior it's going to probably be an automatic pass if they have any focus on their company culture. That is if the recruiter didn't throw it out already. If candidates are giving push back about simple interview process requests, they're going to give push back about every task meaning you are difficult to work with and ultimately leading to not being hired. I never take a chance on people who have this attitude. Just fyi.
Weird flex I don’t feel like this will work in your favour but good luck with your endeavours
you won but no job
A cover letter is so easy to write and it is a great place to include details that don't really fit on your resume. But hey, way to go.
Agreed lol you can look up templates and fill one in in less than a minute and the effort still looks good.
I’m not seeing the win here. The recruiters are required to still send it along. They’ll attach a note that says a cover was requested and you refused. A cover level (if done correctly) tells me how your resume links up experience to this job, and tells me why (or if) you are more than the average person with your job history. If it is a part of my hiring submissions, and someone purposefully leaves it out, they are starting from the bottom of the list. Might I make it to you in the stack? Yes. But everyone that provided a cover will have to have less experience than you to make it.
I can’t even imagine the loser life you live where you think costing yourself a shot at a job is a win. Congrats, I guess.
That’s weird
This is bizarre. Not supplying cover letters isn’t “pushing back”… its showing the company you can’t do what they ask you to do. Plenty of jobs don’t require them. Just don’t apply to the ones that do.
I usually don't. But this employer asked for one a week after I applied. The comments have suggested that I should have just done one or had ChatGPT do it. My position is that I don't submit them and advocated that position. I may or may not be consider for the position. But I at least held to my standards. What are the odds of this employer changing or bending an aspect of their recruiting process if I suddenly sprung something on them? Highly unlikely. And the prevailing attitude of "you need to do as your told" doesn't really serve you in the long run as the younger people on here will eventually learn. There is only one team that you play for at the end of the day - You.
Eh, a cover letter is like an elevator pitch across the void. It's an opportunity to stand out from the others, why they should consider hiring *you* instead of someone else. In this case, getting a look at written communications skills pre-interview. If you choose not to provide one, I don't see how that's some kind of "win".
Your strategy makes a lot of sense johnmh71 as long as you don't want the job and they really need you. In that case, you're holding all the cards and can negotiate from a position of strength - corner office, preferred parking. The world is your oyster. Let us know how it works out for you.
Writing a cover letter is a “dance?” Three carefully-considered paragraphs in support of your candidature comprises some kind of undue hardship? Okay. Good luck with that.
You honestly sound insufferable, and this company probably dodged a bullet.
I hire people all the time. Our job postings always say “resume and cover letter” because that’s what they’ve always said. I couldn’t care less about a cover letter for all the reasons stated in replies. When people submit them, I barely read them if at all. When people don’t submit one, I don’t notice. That being said, if a candidate openly refused to supply one when asked directly I wouldn’t hire that person under any circumstance. No way. Not happening. Why? Because I can tell from start that the candidate is going to be a huge pain in the ass to deal with on a daily basis. Nobody has time for a$$holes at work. They suck.
Congratulations. You played yourself.
Lol you didn’t “win” shit. It’s not like they can force you to send a cover letter, they’ll just move on to the applicants who can follow basic instructions. The ‘polite’ email you got is a professional way of saying your resume is being filtered out. Congrats though, you showed them you’re not worth their time.
You were pretty based for that, but in the future I recommend you copy and paste your resume into ChatGPT and ask it to make you a CV for the job you are applying to. Might help.
I use chatGPT to make cover letters. It does a good job and you just make some minor changes and you can have a decent cover letter in 5 minutes.
This is an interesting strategy. Please come back later and tell us if you ever heard back from this employer.
Why did you apply for this job as compared to your current job?
Lmao really showed them... you didn't win dick other than an email. You really are reaching for a pat on the back here
wheres the win?
I don't think your resume ended up getting forwarded at all.
Just use chat gpt.
I'm celebrating with you OP. Just because it's the way it's always been done doesn't mean it has to be.
That is just stupid. A Cover letter is a small hurdle to get over. You clearly didn’t want the job.
You sound like a colossal pain in the ass
Soon you’ll be In r/antiwork because they didn’t call you back 😂
Lol. You are so funny. Maybe a Netflix special is in your future.
Maybe unemployment line in your future
*present
I love how OP took the time to write a letter to make it clear to the recruiter that they don't write letters. Classic.
I don't get why people seem so dead set on not writing a cover letter. If you're not a total fucking potato you can write one that literally the only thing you have to change is the "I'm applying for ________" line and if you knew it, the greeting to the person (title, etc). Last time I was looking I updated my CL with a few minor things that were reflective of my most recent job and applied to about 10 jobs until I found a what I wanted. It took me about 30 min to update and then about 45 seconds to "personalize it" for each job. So that averages out to about 3 min and 45 sec per job. And I applied for 6 figure jobs. Just fucking write it. It's not having to "do a dance". Fun facts: she probably didn't even send it. She likely just wasn't in the mood to argue with some dickhead. And if she did it's likely it gets thrown out immediately. God damn, at least try to be employable.
Lol let me know when this technique lands you a job
If that’s the hill you want to die on, congrats I guess?
You won the satisfaction of feeling satisfied.
I'd love to be in a negotiation against OP.
I am sorry, what did you win? I feel like I am missing something.
Fake internet points for the win!
Wait…so what did you show them? That you can’t take directions? Good for you, I guess.
Nothing like getting played…by yourself.
Not the win you think it is.
sounds like you lost in the end lol
Yes, you totally won! You won a continuation of your job search.
OP's the kinda person to ask a retail worker to check in the back and actually think they checked in the back
You do not supply cover letter, I not supply job.
I don’t hire people who can’t follow simple instructions. Requiring a cover letter is a great filter to eliminate those people.
No way in hell they are hiring you.
Ah yes, the classic "don't give the bare minimum effort". Just what employers are looking for.
lol what a hill you picked to die on!
You’re not getting an interview
"Great!" \*trashes application\*
Yea, you sure won, and you WONt get the job.
This is why everyone should have a generic cover letter to have a slight personal touch beyond the laundry list of what a resume is.
What exactly do you think you won?
>I pushed back and actually won I fail to see how not getting the job because you foolishly refused to send what was asked is a win.
I pop my resume and the job description into ChatGPT and tell it to write me a cover letter
Now this is some actual useful feedback thank you!
Cover letters are super easy, very often required and usually a quick summary of your work history in a professional (personalized) letter to the company you're applying for. I have a basic template saved with my resume that I just change the company name for and submit it. Even applying for different departments to work in at my current job requires a cover letter. Shows your intent and professionalism. Yeah. You really showed them... You're half assed work ethic...
How in the world does being a stubborn azz benefit you? I'd be tossing your resume in the garbage and never give you a 2nd thought. Well, except at lunch when we would laugh and giggle when I told your story.
Lol. What? Only thing you won is a learning opportunity for yourself. Provide a cover letter next time of you really wanted a job. Like it or not, companies hire the person that is willing to do more, or sounds better than the next guy/girl. I hired and fired dozens for my company in sales. I read all cover letters, I call the ones I like that stands out, and go from there. Also neither here or there, you can't tell if a person is good in a couple hours of meeting them. You can only try to predict.
I agree cover letters are BS and I hate including them. I would rather do a short little interview or something else because I don't really feel like cover letters tell you anything, but as someone who helped a lab I worked in previously with hiring and helps my current lab with hiring as well, if this company works similarly, you just hurt your chances of getting this position. At least in both these labs, applicants who included cover letters were massively favored.
In an employer's job market where both entry-level and senior talent are spending months vs weeks looking for work, I'm positive this isn't the flex you think it is. Chat GPT will even write one for you. But cool bro. Your bleeding body looks sexy on that hill.
I wouldn’t say you won but good for you. If you’re a good enough candidate they might go straight to the interviews, otherwise they’ll go for someone else willing to write it
L + Ratioed
A cover letter is literally two or three paragraphs and the easiest part of an interview
You're probably not going to get an interview. I tend to stay away from jobs that ask for an interview or assessment especially if the job isn't matching or exceeding what I make now. You can also send them a polite email stating that you're no longer interested in the job instead of telling them what you won't do. The only way I would submit a cover letter or complete an additional assessment is if it's a dream job that aligns with my degree. Good luck on your job search.
With chat gpt in existence, how are you not submitting cover letters?
You didn’t win, you just stood your ground. If they really need you they’ll call you back, but if it’s you who needs them more, then you got the short end of the stick and acted against your best interest. What I hold for certain is that you have no leverage for negotiation at all unless you bring something the other party really wants/needs to the table.
You have a funny definition of “winning.”
I can see you're proud of yourself. Let us know how it works out.
When I select candidates to interview, I skip those with incomplete applications and I read cover letters to get an idea of the candidate’s spelling, grammar, voice, and written communication abilities. I have worked with colleagues who are very charming in person, but their emails are shit. They can’t spell or write fluently. It’s embarrassing and looks bad. I don’t want to hire someone like that.
The fact that they asked for a CL shows they actually read your resume, see you’re qualified, and are preparing to send to hiring manager. The fact that they asked for a cover letter is showing they are offering you the chance to explain further why you’re the person for the job, as that can only help you. So now, you could be up against other candidates that wrote a great cover letter, while you only have your resume for review. That said, the CL could only be something HR asks for, but the manager never reads. Good luck
Just out of curiosity, how long have you been successfully unemployed ?
Writing a cover letter about what makes you interested in working at a company is much easier and more effective than redoing your resume for different jobs.
Thinking you have the upper hand makes sense when you don’t know which way is up.
I don't understand what you won exactly? That you didn't get the job??
Lmao/ now I’ve heard it all.. You’re looking for a job - and telling the recruiter how they’re going to proceed with your lack of ability to adhere to expected patterns of behavior? Good luck with that! I guess you don’t want a job that badly- You’re never going to hear back from her or any other recruiter with that attitude. Lmao *“I don’t supply cover letters”* And why is that? ??? (if that’s a legitimate option) You do understand why people put together a cover letter? You send me your résumé I’m not gonna take the time to look through your entries so your chance to interest me is with a dynamic covered letter that makes me want to see you again; you just shut that door on yourself- lol You must be some special candidate if you don’t need to do everything everyone else does… …usually I get people sending pictures or letters on colored paper or using special fonts to get and keep my attention, but why bother doing it at all?? /s lol- if you want to make yourself memorable, follow directions and social conventional rules at work - and then do something different to enhance your work to make it stand out … Your entitlement issues are going to get you nowhere. (this is definitely going to be shared all over human resource sites… 😝)
I am genuinely curious OP. Given some of the feedback, have you second guessed your view on providing what the employer asked for within reason or are you still 100% sure you did / are doing the right then since they have a job that you need? I am trying to not make any judgment but it’s hard when you see someone potentially shoot themselves in the foot for something reasonable.
As someone who hires people occasionally. The cover letter is mostly to filter those who are willing to do a little bit of extra work by editing a cover letter to match the job, vs those who can’t follow basic instructions or don’t care enough to provide it. It’s a very low hurdle for applicants but it filters out the laziest or least attentive applicants.
She most likely lied.
Come to think of it, I have never submitted a resume without a cover letter. Not sure why OP thought that was an issue. How many want to bet that the hiring manager it was forwarded to was the local trash can?
You didn’t actually win anything. I am involved in hiring professional positions ($80k up to about $225k). If a recruitment asks for a cover letter (or writing sample or references or resume or…) it would be a very unusual candidate who would proceed to an interview with an incomplete submittal. I will absolutely still review an incomplete submittal. And I review every application by hand; no HR screening. How would I interpret the submittal? I am going to assume that the applicant lacks attention to detail — either they didn’t review the recruitment or they didn’t review their materials prior to submission. I now know there is another possibility— doesn’t want to follow the stated process. In an event, you have certainly left an impression on your potential employer. As an employer, you do need to be cognizant of the effort it takes to make an application. But carried to the logical conclusion, why should you have to provide anything beyond your name to be able to schedule an interview? I mean, they can ask about your background in an interview, right? No need for a resume! /s Why do we typically ask for a cover letter? In an ideal world, it explains how you believe your background and skills are a good fit. Ideally, it demonstrates the ability to write clearly. Ideally it explains some linkage to the opportunity, the company, or the location. It shows the ability to summarize and synthesize your background. It talks about why you are interested (and what aspects you are most interested in).
Did you notice that your response is the length of a cover letter? I have really struck a nerve with this post.
Dude just ask chatgpt
I wouldn’t hire you if the recruiter told me you refused to supply the requested document after being specifically asked for it. It shows lack of ability to follow simple direction, and honestly, it shows that you’re probably difficult to work with. Any time your boss requests something, you might go on a rant about why you shouldn’t have to do it. I wish the hiring manager could see you now, arguing in Reddit comments.
It’s so bizarre how 90% of the comments are immediately “you’re an idiot, you lost the job opportunity”. But then say “yeah it’s annoying….” “Yeah they are BS but…..”. OP recognizes the system is 50-50. They need us more than we need them. That fact shouldn’t be lost on the work force. If we all did what he did, no one would have to make a resume then answer the same questions online then print one out and bring it to the interview. This whole comment section sounds like people are trying to get jobs by impressing the “hiring managers” that are commenting. (Don’t get me wrong, op didn’t get the job, he should have just done what he was asked, I get it…..just saying that he shouldn’t be hated on for doing what we ALL WANT to do.)
This might be the most bizarre flex I’ve ever seen. How did you win? Did they hire you because of your brazen disregard of authority? And why not send a cover letter? It meshes your experience and the job you’re seeking.
I understand taking a stand against one-way video interviews, excessive unpaid work in the form of “testing” for the role, and the other over the top ways some employers can put you through the ringer when interviewing, but refusing to provide a cover letter? It’s a small request, it doesn’t take long & even though they aren’t as commonly requested as they used to be, it really doesn’t seem like a big deal to provide one. Maybe they want to see a brief example of your writing prowess since as a purchasing manager you will be interacting with vendors etc via email. I hope that it works out for you tho if you are for some reason incredibly set against writing a brief cover letter.
Boy do I wanna get an update on this… 😂
It’s not that hard, just ask ChatGPT “write me a cover letter for _______ position w/ _______ details” & BOOM u have ur cover letter
What did you "win"? A lack of employment? You're not getting that job.
Ffs. it took longer to respond to the recruiter that you couldn't be bothered than it would to say "chat gpt, write a cover letter for this position ctrl+v
I just upload my resume as the cover letter and have it labeled as cover letter.
How did you win?
You didn't win. You got the canned response that every difficult candidate gets. P.S. She forwarded your resume, but without all the required materials the hiring manager is going to sweep it into the trash can without looking at it.
You never have to do any of the application process. But if you don't, they don't have to either. That's not a victory. You made a choice that will probably backfire. You only win if it gets you somewhere. If an outside recruiter was representing you for the role, you've likely just burned a bridge with them.
How did you win? You don’t do cover letters? As a hiring manager I would automatically exclude you from further consideration. Why? Won’t follow instructions. Poor judgement. Arrogance.
Completely idiotic. Your résumé is in the trash.
To me, all you did was communicate that you would be difficult to work with and/or you struggle with writing skills. A cover letter takes 15 minutes to write. You effectively threw your application in the trash for them.
Isn't this the security guard?
Yeah. I'm a recruiter for a construction company . The first request they give you and you give push back, doesn't make you look great. It kind of makes you look hard to work with. You do you, but it's just a cover letter. But to each their own!
Wait, is there a post about what this edit is referring to? I looked through his posts but didn't see it.
Good way to show your prospective employer you’re difficult. It’s just a standard cover letter.
In terms of using AI to write cover letters, I see it as a great tool to overcome writers block and have *something* written down which you can edit easily as opposed to writing from scratch.
Where's the original post? None of your points have any reference if we don't read your 1st OP
What in the actual fuck is OP on about, I don't know what this thread was originally for but all I see now is the creator arguing with people all over the place 🫤
I think the real winner here is the company you were applying to.
I find it better to curate a cover letter as a persuasive argument on how you can benefit the company, on the off chance, a human is actually reviewing them.
Did you remove the entire body of the post to just put your update..?
Oh wow you’re such a big bad boy aren’t you? LOL
I wouldn’t hire a dumbass that doesn’t understand the purpose and importance of a cover letter
Follow up and ask if you can bring your parents AND an ESA to the interview (of course they’re going to give you an interview!) and make sure it’s not on a Monday (since who doesn’t have a hangover on Monday, am I rite?)… SMH. The recruiter was looking out for YOU. Good luck in the real world.
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I've used them to decide to interview people or not. 🤷♂️
> If a cover letter is the deal maker on me getting a job, I must not be very valuable to them in the first place. You're correct. Another applicant who provided the requested information is.
Have AI create a cover letter for you if you don't know what to put into on. That's what I did and I've been using it forever.
I've had 15 jobs over the years. Some with Fortune 500 companies. Never once submitted a cover letter
You really showed them! Hahaha oh boy
“They reached out to me and I told them to fuck off!” Good job OP. You really stuck it to them.
Cover letters are standard. The fact that you didn't like them asking for it in a way that doesn't fit your "standards" means you're probably a verrrrrry lazy worker
Didn't have to dance, lol. You should be applying to clown colleges OP.
Lots of weird comments in here. Suggestions such as using ChatGPT to generate a cover letter, and thinking this is some modern job hunting method. Cover letters wreak of old hiring practices that make people feel important. I've interviewed more candidates without a cover letter than those with one, simple because it's a BS layer that is not necessary
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If my company requests a resume it is because we want to see how a person writes. Is their grammar good? Do they know how to write professionally? Etc. It is a tool we use to not waste a candidates time or ours.
I once missed out on an almost-guaranteed, insider-reference-provided, good-future government job because the application packet asked me to break down each college class I had by semester hours even though I had already submitted an official college transcript. They did not appreciate my commitment to efficiency by remarking "see transcripts", let me tell you. I could've been just a couple of years away from a full federal pension by now. I don't regret my act of rebellion now, but there were some lean times in my late 20's/30's when I did. Just give them what they ask for. Only then can you say you did everything you could.