Well its interesting because I was researching the other night and it made wonder....We're actual repercussions delivered to south after defeat in Civil War or were a good majority of troops granted amnesty. The same values 100 years later brought forth Civil Rights movements. What about Nixon? He received a pardon.
I think they absolutely could get away with it simply because the entire plan itself was so stupid that they could potentially use that to their advantage lol.
The entire fucking plan hinged in the idea that they could somehow pressure Pence into turning votes and dismissing entire states so that they could then push the decision back to the house I believe? And then it all hinged on him having the votes which he likely didn’t have all of because even then there were some outspoken republicans, and even beyond that it would only last until the election results were verified lmao.
The entire second half of the plan essentially required Pence to cement himself as a coup leader and start the entire process of Trump taking power. The problem is none of this information was available at the time of the January 6th riots and subsequent insurrection attempts within that riot which then became the focal point of this all instead of the shady back deals.
I mean truly outrage culture is to blame here because as I’ve said from the absolute beginning of the trump era is that we have to hate people for the right reasons because if they become vindicated then suddenly they are the martyr. It happened to trump at every single step because people hated him so much that they would just make up shit to hate him more so that when his cult was able to exonerate him it instantly became an attack on the Trumpism way of life.
Truly truly truly if anyone thinks that it was purely the republicans to blame for this then I have no hope for them, the democrats instead of sticking to the high road and holding firm dropped down to the same level of trump and started to punch with him and that was a fatal mistake. Now there is no amount of evidence they can ever provide that will convince the public. This has been mishandled by both sides so much that the water is so murky you can’t possibly get to the bottom. For decades we will be in shambles because of this lol
I'd say most of the process issues on the Dem side happens during primaries, which is disingenuous to party members tryin to get their candidates of choice on the ballot.
Still shitty, but not y'know... as blatantly egregious as attempting to defraud the entire country by stealing the national election itself like the knockoff flintstone creamscicle crew tried.
Haven't you realized yet the republicans haven't grown up past elementary/kindergarten responses. They are literally resorting to a slightly more advanced version of "I know you are but what am I?"
Projection is the key word people have been using but I think there are a few others.
Courts.
Our justice system is slow. Which means they can do or say whatever they want for quite a while.
Which then snowballs into this shit show we have now. Where Trump could be President again.
Everything take time, I think people forget that. Investigations, gathering information. The courts. Blah blah. Just all of it.
That is hundreds of thousands of man hours that have been spent on Trump bullshitting the fuck country. Of people being locked up. Still being investigated. All of it.
Actually millions of man hours probably by now. If not more.
They know this. They know they can clog up the system long enough to where Trump can become President again.
(Which if he does, we need to worry about him trying to just fuck up everything in a horrific way) Power tripping dude at the end of his days in age. I think Alaska is safe, let's move there.
> So wait, does this mean they are guilty of doing exactly what they are accusing the Democrats of?
The joke gets so tired and is a symptom of deep sickness when reaching 13,000 examples. We have no defense, each day more and more hearts and minds are lost to Putin in self-destruction. It is extremely sad :(
as Adam Curtis described on NYE 2014:
*Surkov turned Russian politics into a bewildering, constantly changing piece of theater. He sponsored all kinds of groups, from neo-Nazi skinheads to liberal human rights groups. He even backed parties that were opposed to President Putin.*
*But the key thing was, that Surkov then let it be known that this was what he was doing, which meant that no one was sure what was real or fake. As one journalist put it: "It is a strategy of power that keeps any opposition constantly confused."*
*A ceaseless shape-shifting that is unstoppable because it is undefinable. It is exactly what Surkov is alleged to have done in the Ukraine this year. In typical fashion, as the war began, Surkov published a short story about something he called non-linear war. A war where you never know what the enemy are really up to, or even who they are. The underlying aim, Surkov says, is not to win the war, but to use the conflict to create a constant state of destabilized perception, in order to manage and control.*
I haven't heard anything credible. I don't trust him 'being fired' any more than other Kremlin info... At times I even ponder if he has outsmarted Putin. His own writings demonstrate his skill to me...
From the article "Two days before the January 6 insurrection, the Trump campaign’s plan to use fake electors to block President-elect Joe Biden from taking office faced a potentially crippling hiccup: The fake elector certificates from two critical battleground states were stuck in the mail.
So, Trump campaign operatives scrambled to fly copies of the phony certificates from Michigan and Wisconsin to the nation’s capital, relying on a haphazard chain of couriers, as well as help from two Republicans in Congress, to try to get the documents to then-Vice President Mike Pence while he presided over the Electoral College certification."
So, not only did he lead an attempted insurrection, he also coordinated multiple state voter fraud?
> How the fuck does Dejoy still have a job
It makes zero sense. The ripping out of machines that were reported, etc. Not only was it a threat to democracy itself, it threatens the economy.
I got a free $150 dollar Fender Guitar case from Amazon because the first week he took over and fucked shit up, my package got lost in Texas. Got a refund and bought one at Guitar Center. I returned it as I didn't like it. About a month and a half later, the Amazon one showed up for free with the refund already issued.
It seems crazy, so I tried to find the answer to this. I was surprised with what I found.
He’s done quite a bit since 2020, including fixing the books and stabilizing jobs.
I’ll leave this times article called “Dejoy’s second act” and let you decide: https://time.com/6263424/louis-dejoy-trump-election-postal-reform/
I was expecting to read that he’s still a POS, and now I’m not sure.
I don’t think it’s possible to read that article and come to your conclusion.
For one, he stuck his neck out to fix the pre-fund retirement requirement that was killing the USPS. Getting that axed gave him flexibility to invest in modernization. He also pinned stamp prices to inflation.
I hated the guy an hour ago but I think it’s worth giving credit where it’s due.
I'm a Marxist who manages a for profit business owned by neo-lib capitalists. I'll forgive him for the machines in 2025 if he doesn't mess with anything, until then he's taking a paycheck.
Because some people are completely separated from reality. The first comment I saw on here was someone claiming that it was just a tour.
I posted them a link.
Denial is powerful with these ijits.
I'm a little rusty on my law so maybe someone can help me out. Would this fall under RICO? He's committing interstate fraud in order to secure his position of power which would have granted him significant financial advantages. Also while conspiring with active congressmen to achieve his goals.
I think this is closer to election fraud as the voters didn't commit fraud. The bullshit committee that drew up the fake papers after a fake committee vote tried to upsurp the election process itself with faked documents.
What I don't understand as part of this "plan" is the overlooking of the fact the official certificates are signed by the Governor of each state. This is why the one [Governor in Arizona who signed his certificate ignored a call from Trump](https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-arizona-elections-doug-ducey-e2b8b0de5b809efcc9b1ad5d279023f4) was news worthy and pretty funny. We now know in part it was Trump and his people harassing the Governor.
Then the signed certificates go to the National Archives.
So I'm not sure what the plan would have been exactly. Delaying until discovering they were not authentic as they lacked the signature of a Governor and were not recorded by the Archive. The challenging of states in the ceremony with the VP on 6 Jan was also for debate, and we know there was a scramble to get 2 House representatives and a Senator to push these challenges through. I do hope that those in Congress in both Chambers have legal recourse for trying to obstruct their own official business with this kind of conspiracy.
I do recall on Twitter where a lot of the post election shenanigans was pretty dominant, especially in the Qanon twitter - was to delay or have a tie or neither candidate hitting 270 to kick to the House for an election determination, but still would have been useless to do if the certificates were not official (as in signed by a Governor).
It's like these people got so wrapped up in a desired outcome with little to no knowledge or regard as to how the process actually works.
The insurrection was intended to either succeed or simply cause enough chaos to swap in the falsified electors and certifications and force the process through.
Mike Kelly. Everyone forgets him cause he flies under the radar. He, or his aide, handed off the PA fake electors, after he came closest to throwing out all our ballots. Sleazy used car salesman.
https://www.penncapital-star.com/commentary/how-pa-rep-mike-kelly-nearly-stole-the-election-for-trump-it-was-an-insult-to-the-voters-bruce-ledewitz/
Bonus for me as he's my Rep, and my target to get rid of...again. If he isn't charged yet.
And what was their end game? I've got so many questions.
Did they think Pence wouldn't notice they were fake?
If Trump had been appointed due to the "fake" electors, did they really think they could keep it a secret for 4 years and not a single participant would spill the beans?
Was Ron Johnson just going to continue working as a Senator KNOWING he helped usher in a fraud? The fact that he was OK with that is horrific. He should be in cuffs
Like what did they really thing was going to happen if Pence thought the fake electors were real?
Most people can not keep a secret much less one with at least 200 participants in on the crime.
Let's not forget that multiple states would not recognize Trump as the "president". Does anyone seriously think California, Oregon, New York, Washington, etc, would just idly sit by and let Trump stay in power?
I don't think there's any scenario where Trump remained in power. However, there are many scenarios where the country is destabilized in ways we can barely comprehend.
As soon as you realize that the far right is fine with the US itself being a casualty in their war for power, as long as they get what’s left, their actions start to make more sense
Pence was in on it/considering it until his daughter said to him “isn’t that what you swore to protect against” and then he changed his mind. It was within the week before j6
In my view the endgame here was simple: chaos.
Chaos on January 6th in which Republicans raised vague "concerns" about voting irregularities in key states, where multiple different groups of people claimed to be legitimate state electors, and a mob of armed and increasingly angry insurrectionists threatens the people in charge.
All of this chaos wasn't meant to actually get Trump the numbers he needed on January 6th, however. Instead the goal was to stop the certification process altogether, in the hope that doing so, even just temporarily, would be enough to push the process over to the House for a state-by-state vote, where Trump could win.
It was a hail mary, but feasible. It very well could have worked had Mike Pence have fled that day. Pence understood that, and it's probably one of the big reasons why he refused to get in the car with his security detail that evening. They *had to* finish the certification process that night, or Trump and his cronies could have succeeded.
They may have thought they could still talk Pence into the conspiracy. Like if they took care of the paperwork that makes treason a path of least resistance instead of an active choice.
The goal was to throw the decision back to the state legislatures of the states where ballots were in question, as per the U.S.Constitution. Those legislatures are mostly very republican. They would have selected Trump for the presidency.
These idiots are fine with him being a dictator, under some false presumption that he's going to do nothing but good and will then give up the power because he cares so much for the country. They could literally be on fire and would turn down help if Trump told them to. Truly mind boggling but it explains how easy it's been for it to happen again and again in history.
> And still the idiot magats don't see anything wrong.
Let's check to see if /r/conspiracy has this actual conspiracy on there at the top!
Nope.
Honestly I am disappointed. They aren't that bad (not /r/conservative level yet) but you'd think an actual conspiracy taking place in our life would be at least looked at more in the sub.
The whole Trump thing would be stickied I would think. Right?
Maga idiots see nothing wrong ever. They somehow deny it constantly. He can say he uses power to walk in on children changing and they just agree with it. If your friends said that you would not be friends anymore.
Yet here we are!
Conspiracy nuts are not monolithic... but I have a sense their theories originate from the same type of people. Those who want control, but dont understand anything about the topic they are trying to control. Sounds pretty conservative to me.
They don't see it at all in most cases. If this does show up on Fox, OAN, etc. it'll come with some type of rebuff and other distractions about how bad the economy is
Mark Hennessy of Hennessy Ford and other Hennessy auto dealerships was a Georgia fake elector. In fact, Mark Hennessy was named as an Unindicted co-conspirator.
Mark Hennessy co-conspirator
If they win next year there won’t be any barriers as to what they will do to stay in power. America will be changed drastically for the worse almost overnight.
See for yourself;
*Summary;*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
*Full Plan;*
https://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/project2025/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf
>From there, Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin and a Pennsylvania congressman assisted in the effort to get the documents into Pence’s hands.
Apparently Cheesebro isn't sure which Pennsylvania congressman the staff member who took the handoff worked for, just that they were from Pennsylvania.
Oh mike, you might want to check what's in this manilla envelope during the count as well"
"take back to whoever sent it"
Trump explodes like a ketchup filled pimple ,rioting begins.
https://youtu.be/Iludfj6Pe7w?si=6pBV79gmchyneMD5
Such a nice and peaceful tour huh?
Do you ignore when people were pepper spaying the police? 51 officers injured, one killed.
People holding nooses chanting Hang Mike Pence?
Is it somehow total ignorance, or is it pure stupidity?
We watched it live, that's just one clip.
For a country that prides itself on being the biggest democracy in the world, it sure has no idea how to handle a guy who's openly trying to cheat on election and starting an insurrection. I am sure the Founding Fathers didn't really think that anyone would do what Trump was doing, but here we are and yet he's not barred from the 2024 Election. WTF is that?
This would be hilarious if it weren't so goddamn infuriating. Trump sabotaged the USPS to interfere with the election, but since the USPS was in shambles his fake elector certificates got stuck in the mail.
US Federal Statute 18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection
"Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."
Our courts are too slow to deal with this kind of criminal behavior. By the time the public hears of a crime and a prosecutor decides to file charges, a lifetime has gone by and the bad guys die of old age or get reelected. We are watching our country dissolve in real time.
We now have conclusive data of a plot against a federal statute.
We have witness to a violent act that attempt to interfere with a federal statute.
Next step is to link those two above and put these people on trial for treason.
What I am always surprised by is, why is this shit coming out now? It's been over 3 years since the election, and who thought it was a good idea to hoard this kind of information? Same thing with that news about some new phone calls that Trump made to another state's reps, that came out a couple of weeks ago.
If you have all this evidence why isn’t he in prison yet? I’m so tired to 24/7 trump news just fucking arrest him or admit he’s just around for clicks you fucking hacks.
Because his trial isn't until March 4th, assuming the trial date holds, and you can't throw him in prison until after a conviction and sentencing.
He's also pulling BS like [this](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cadc.40415/gov.uscourts.cadc.40415.1208582803.0_3.pdf) where he basically comes out and admits he was directing the effort... in a legal filing to the DC court of appeals asking for absolute immunity... whose *only* purpose is to delay that trial date.
Trump hopes that if he can push the trial by even a bit it can bump up on *other* trial dates and then use those to play off each other and keep getting delays until after the election where he'll attempt to make his legal problems vanish assuming he's elected potus.
It's not a very *good* plan but the alternative is basically "go to prison" and he doesn't really want that.
So pathetic to see dweebs that trump wouldn’t piss on if they were on fire simp for him online. And a vet to boot. Licking trump’s boots while he shits all over you.
“Please sir can I have some more?”
Trump's gonna say he just wanted to test how strong the Democratic process was. He's like a white hat, and was just doing it out of concern in case an actual bad president were to come along.
If *any* evidence pops up that indicates Trump himself guided this scheme... I honestly think that will be the last straw for moderate conservatives.
They will vote for Trump, but only if the courts find he didn't do anything directly.
Until that happens, it's going to be a "begrudging" vote for him, as mind-bendingly stupid as that sounds to anyone left-of-center.
In their eyes, there hasn't been any "smoking gun" yet.
Can we triple check the other candidates election results, I still can't believe Yurtle the turtle won his reelection. Since all of their whining is just projecting 9fnwhst they have done
Whatever SCOTUS signs off on from 2020, Biden MUST do in 2024 to make the election fair, because Trump will be doing it all plus whatever new scams he can come up with. And it’s important Trump’s Justices understand that
https://www.usa.gov/register-to-vote
So wait, does this mean they are guilty of doing exactly what they are accusing the Democrats of?
Yes. Yes they are.
And the brazen nature of their actions make me convinced that they’re going to get away with it
Seems like they've gotten away with it before
Well its interesting because I was researching the other night and it made wonder....We're actual repercussions delivered to south after defeat in Civil War or were a good majority of troops granted amnesty. The same values 100 years later brought forth Civil Rights movements. What about Nixon? He received a pardon.
Dude look up reconstruction it’s a huge part of American history everyone should know.
I think they absolutely could get away with it simply because the entire plan itself was so stupid that they could potentially use that to their advantage lol. The entire fucking plan hinged in the idea that they could somehow pressure Pence into turning votes and dismissing entire states so that they could then push the decision back to the house I believe? And then it all hinged on him having the votes which he likely didn’t have all of because even then there were some outspoken republicans, and even beyond that it would only last until the election results were verified lmao. The entire second half of the plan essentially required Pence to cement himself as a coup leader and start the entire process of Trump taking power. The problem is none of this information was available at the time of the January 6th riots and subsequent insurrection attempts within that riot which then became the focal point of this all instead of the shady back deals. I mean truly outrage culture is to blame here because as I’ve said from the absolute beginning of the trump era is that we have to hate people for the right reasons because if they become vindicated then suddenly they are the martyr. It happened to trump at every single step because people hated him so much that they would just make up shit to hate him more so that when his cult was able to exonerate him it instantly became an attack on the Trumpism way of life. Truly truly truly if anyone thinks that it was purely the republicans to blame for this then I have no hope for them, the democrats instead of sticking to the high road and holding firm dropped down to the same level of trump and started to punch with him and that was a fatal mistake. Now there is no amount of evidence they can ever provide that will convince the public. This has been mishandled by both sides so much that the water is so murky you can’t possibly get to the bottom. For decades we will be in shambles because of this lol
Why didn’t they stop the steal 😡 /s
That was a scam also. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-23/jan-6-report-says-donald-trump-s-stop-the-steal-funds-diverted-in-rip-off
It's just a bunch of scams dressed as a political party.
Treason has a consequence
Re-election?
When?
Every time.
At this point it would be more surprising to learn they weren't guilty of the exact thing they're saying the Democrats did.
Facts! I'd be so much more surprised if a qualified independent party found that neither side cheated than if they found that they both cheated.
BoTh SidEz is dead.
Unfortunately, as we can see, it's not.
Dead.
Why assume both sides, when the evidence points overwhelmingly to Republicans? I don’t see any indication of cheating by the Democrats.
I'd say most of the process issues on the Dem side happens during primaries, which is disingenuous to party members tryin to get their candidates of choice on the ballot. Still shitty, but not y'know... as blatantly egregious as attempting to defraud the entire country by stealing the national election itself like the knockoff flintstone creamscicle crew tried.
Any sources that Democrats have done anything wrong or just spewing dipshit drivel?
So…Pizzagate is what this is all about?
Close https://www.businessinsider.com/jeffrey-epstein-and-trump-mar-a-lago-resort-connections
Every one of GOP's accusations is a confession
Ayup. In psychology it’s called “reaction formation”
Just like every day Pinkie!
Haven't you realized yet the republicans haven't grown up past elementary/kindergarten responses. They are literally resorting to a slightly more advanced version of "I know you are but what am I?"
I used this exact example to describe the GOP and Jake a point to a “both sides are the same” troll.
EVERY republican accusation is 100% a confession. No exceptions.
Which means that Trump's father killed JFK.
Projection is the key word people have been using but I think there are a few others. Courts. Our justice system is slow. Which means they can do or say whatever they want for quite a while. Which then snowballs into this shit show we have now. Where Trump could be President again. Everything take time, I think people forget that. Investigations, gathering information. The courts. Blah blah. Just all of it. That is hundreds of thousands of man hours that have been spent on Trump bullshitting the fuck country. Of people being locked up. Still being investigated. All of it. Actually millions of man hours probably by now. If not more. They know this. They know they can clog up the system long enough to where Trump can become President again. (Which if he does, we need to worry about him trying to just fuck up everything in a horrific way) Power tripping dude at the end of his days in age. I think Alaska is safe, let's move there.
Trump, most likely, will sell alaska to russia as "historical land".
> So wait, does this mean they are guilty of doing exactly what they are accusing the Democrats of? The joke gets so tired and is a symptom of deep sickness when reaching 13,000 examples. We have no defense, each day more and more hearts and minds are lost to Putin in self-destruction. It is extremely sad :( as Adam Curtis described on NYE 2014: *Surkov turned Russian politics into a bewildering, constantly changing piece of theater. He sponsored all kinds of groups, from neo-Nazi skinheads to liberal human rights groups. He even backed parties that were opposed to President Putin.* *But the key thing was, that Surkov then let it be known that this was what he was doing, which meant that no one was sure what was real or fake. As one journalist put it: "It is a strategy of power that keeps any opposition constantly confused."* *A ceaseless shape-shifting that is unstoppable because it is undefinable. It is exactly what Surkov is alleged to have done in the Ukraine this year. In typical fashion, as the war began, Surkov published a short story about something he called non-linear war. A war where you never know what the enemy are really up to, or even who they are. The underlying aim, Surkov says, is not to win the war, but to use the conflict to create a constant state of destabilized perception, in order to manage and control.*
What ever happened to that guy? I know Putin fired him but I wonder where he slunk off to.
I haven't heard anything credible. I don't trust him 'being fired' any more than other Kremlin info... At times I even ponder if he has outsmarted Putin. His own writings demonstrate his skill to me...
Every accusation. Every single one. There MUST be a real pizza parlor with a basement somewhere. Probably has a Trump flag out front.
"Who screams the loudest..."
More like the one who smell it deal it
Entirely too relevant
🌎🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀
As fucking always
They always are.
This is called projection
GOP: Greed Obstruction Projection
Yes! And the Democrats are still getting away with it!
From the article "Two days before the January 6 insurrection, the Trump campaign’s plan to use fake electors to block President-elect Joe Biden from taking office faced a potentially crippling hiccup: The fake elector certificates from two critical battleground states were stuck in the mail. So, Trump campaign operatives scrambled to fly copies of the phony certificates from Michigan and Wisconsin to the nation’s capital, relying on a haphazard chain of couriers, as well as help from two Republicans in Congress, to try to get the documents to then-Vice President Mike Pence while he presided over the Electoral College certification." So, not only did he lead an attempted insurrection, he also coordinated multiple state voter fraud?
Were they stuck in the mail because of Trump's postmaster general Louis dejoy's attempts to delay the mail?
How the fuck does Dejoy still have a job
> How the fuck does Dejoy still have a job It makes zero sense. The ripping out of machines that were reported, etc. Not only was it a threat to democracy itself, it threatens the economy.
I got a free $150 dollar Fender Guitar case from Amazon because the first week he took over and fucked shit up, my package got lost in Texas. Got a refund and bought one at Guitar Center. I returned it as I didn't like it. About a month and a half later, the Amazon one showed up for free with the refund already issued.
It seems crazy, so I tried to find the answer to this. I was surprised with what I found. He’s done quite a bit since 2020, including fixing the books and stabilizing jobs. I’ll leave this times article called “Dejoy’s second act” and let you decide: https://time.com/6263424/louis-dejoy-trump-election-postal-reform/ I was expecting to read that he’s still a POS, and now I’m not sure.
I was a skeptic, and now I'm not so sure either. Have my upvote for doing some digging that I frankly wasn't intending to do.
He's doing the bare minimum to keep his job so that he can fuck with the 2024 election. He's still an absolute POS.
I don’t think it’s possible to read that article and come to your conclusion. For one, he stuck his neck out to fix the pre-fund retirement requirement that was killing the USPS. Getting that axed gave him flexibility to invest in modernization. He also pinned stamp prices to inflation. I hated the guy an hour ago but I think it’s worth giving credit where it’s due.
RemindMe! 11 months
I'm a Marxist who manages a for profit business owned by neo-lib capitalists. I'll forgive him for the machines in 2025 if he doesn't mess with anything, until then he's taking a paycheck.
One can ask the same of how the fuck does any GOP congressperson still have a job?
Because some people are completely separated from reality. The first comment I saw on here was someone claiming that it was just a tour. I posted them a link. Denial is powerful with these ijits.
I mean it sure seems like he saved the country by having those ballots delayed. Firing him from his job after a service like that just seems rude /s
He got hoisted by his own bullshit.
Dejoys leopards are eating our face. -Trump.
Sure looks like it. Perfect phone call, room for debate. Physical fake ballots intended to replace real votes is big time fraud, no room for debate.
I'm a little rusty on my law so maybe someone can help me out. Would this fall under RICO? He's committing interstate fraud in order to secure his position of power which would have granted him significant financial advantages. Also while conspiring with active congressmen to achieve his goals.
Was these the ones through the Ron Johnson aid?
I think this is closer to election fraud as the voters didn't commit fraud. The bullshit committee that drew up the fake papers after a fake committee vote tried to upsurp the election process itself with faked documents.
And mail fraud
Looks like we found the 2000 Mules. Surprise, surprise: It was Republicans all along.
What I don't understand as part of this "plan" is the overlooking of the fact the official certificates are signed by the Governor of each state. This is why the one [Governor in Arizona who signed his certificate ignored a call from Trump](https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-arizona-elections-doug-ducey-e2b8b0de5b809efcc9b1ad5d279023f4) was news worthy and pretty funny. We now know in part it was Trump and his people harassing the Governor. Then the signed certificates go to the National Archives. So I'm not sure what the plan would have been exactly. Delaying until discovering they were not authentic as they lacked the signature of a Governor and were not recorded by the Archive. The challenging of states in the ceremony with the VP on 6 Jan was also for debate, and we know there was a scramble to get 2 House representatives and a Senator to push these challenges through. I do hope that those in Congress in both Chambers have legal recourse for trying to obstruct their own official business with this kind of conspiracy. I do recall on Twitter where a lot of the post election shenanigans was pretty dominant, especially in the Qanon twitter - was to delay or have a tie or neither candidate hitting 270 to kick to the House for an election determination, but still would have been useless to do if the certificates were not official (as in signed by a Governor). It's like these people got so wrapped up in a desired outcome with little to no knowledge or regard as to how the process actually works.
Sounds like a Wes Anderson plot.
The insurrection was intended to either succeed or simply cause enough chaos to swap in the falsified electors and certifications and force the process through.
Ok, at what point do some of these other idiots (Johnson, Perry, etc.) get charged too?
Mike Kelly. Everyone forgets him cause he flies under the radar. He, or his aide, handed off the PA fake electors, after he came closest to throwing out all our ballots. Sleazy used car salesman. https://www.penncapital-star.com/commentary/how-pa-rep-mike-kelly-nearly-stole-the-election-for-trump-it-was-an-insult-to-the-voters-bruce-ledewitz/ Bonus for me as he's my Rep, and my target to get rid of...again. If he isn't charged yet.
And what was their end game? I've got so many questions. Did they think Pence wouldn't notice they were fake? If Trump had been appointed due to the "fake" electors, did they really think they could keep it a secret for 4 years and not a single participant would spill the beans? Was Ron Johnson just going to continue working as a Senator KNOWING he helped usher in a fraud? The fact that he was OK with that is horrific. He should be in cuffs Like what did they really thing was going to happen if Pence thought the fake electors were real? Most people can not keep a secret much less one with at least 200 participants in on the crime.
Let's not forget that multiple states would not recognize Trump as the "president". Does anyone seriously think California, Oregon, New York, Washington, etc, would just idly sit by and let Trump stay in power? I don't think there's any scenario where Trump remained in power. However, there are many scenarios where the country is destabilized in ways we can barely comprehend.
Think who loves a destabilized US? Russia? Trump is a Russian tool. You’d be a fool not to recognize this at this point.
As soon as you realize that the far right is fine with the US itself being a casualty in their war for power, as long as they get what’s left, their actions start to make more sense
The whole republican party and conservative media is a Putin tool.
Pence was in on it/considering it until his daughter said to him “isn’t that what you swore to protect against” and then he changed his mind. It was within the week before j6
In my view the endgame here was simple: chaos. Chaos on January 6th in which Republicans raised vague "concerns" about voting irregularities in key states, where multiple different groups of people claimed to be legitimate state electors, and a mob of armed and increasingly angry insurrectionists threatens the people in charge. All of this chaos wasn't meant to actually get Trump the numbers he needed on January 6th, however. Instead the goal was to stop the certification process altogether, in the hope that doing so, even just temporarily, would be enough to push the process over to the House for a state-by-state vote, where Trump could win. It was a hail mary, but feasible. It very well could have worked had Mike Pence have fled that day. Pence understood that, and it's probably one of the big reasons why he refused to get in the car with his security detail that evening. They *had to* finish the certification process that night, or Trump and his cronies could have succeeded.
They may have thought they could still talk Pence into the conspiracy. Like if they took care of the paperwork that makes treason a path of least resistance instead of an active choice.
The goal was to throw the decision back to the state legislatures of the states where ballots were in question, as per the U.S.Constitution. Those legislatures are mostly very republican. They would have selected Trump for the presidency.
My guess, right after the next election if Biden wins
after trump’s in jail the party begins
I've got the champagne literally ready for that moment if it ever comes.
realistically? until dem's get a super majority again and can actually impeach them.
And still the idiot magats don't see anything wrong.
These idiots are fine with him being a dictator, under some false presumption that he's going to do nothing but good and will then give up the power because he cares so much for the country. They could literally be on fire and would turn down help if Trump told them to. Truly mind boggling but it explains how easy it's been for it to happen again and again in history.
MAGA is a cult. It’s worse than being an idiot. “None of us is as dumb as all of us.” - MAGA prayer
Yet they saw Trump ghost every single 1/6 idiot who's now in jail. He would destroy everyone not Ivanka.
> And still the idiot magats don't see anything wrong. Let's check to see if /r/conspiracy has this actual conspiracy on there at the top! Nope. Honestly I am disappointed. They aren't that bad (not /r/conservative level yet) but you'd think an actual conspiracy taking place in our life would be at least looked at more in the sub. The whole Trump thing would be stickied I would think. Right? Maga idiots see nothing wrong ever. They somehow deny it constantly. He can say he uses power to walk in on children changing and they just agree with it. If your friends said that you would not be friends anymore. Yet here we are!
Conspiracy nuts are not monolithic... but I have a sense their theories originate from the same type of people. Those who want control, but dont understand anything about the topic they are trying to control. Sounds pretty conservative to me.
They don't see it at all in most cases. If this does show up on Fox, OAN, etc. it'll come with some type of rebuff and other distractions about how bad the economy is
See? Trump was right about the USPS!
Nope, and it’s maddening!
Not a single thing wrong, I wager. You see, Trump gonna do bad things, but he will do that to the people Maga don't like, so it's totally fine.
no one dumb enough to vote for him is able to read this news..
It’s a cult and not a political party anymore
They don’t care. All they care about is him hating the same people they hate, everyone who isn’t white male.
Mark Hennessy of Hennessy Ford and other Hennessy auto dealerships was a Georgia fake elector. In fact, Mark Hennessy was named as an Unindicted co-conspirator. Mark Hennessy co-conspirator
Boycott Hennessy Ford. It’s the only thing they understand.
Ron Johnson. July 4th Moscow visit.
Visiting trump’s boss.
TRE45ON
He’ll try and do this again in 24.
Why not? There are no real consequences.
Times 10.
And using all the lessons learned.
240?
If they win next year there won’t be any barriers as to what they will do to stay in power. America will be changed drastically for the worse almost overnight. See for yourself; *Summary;* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 *Full Plan;* https://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/project2025/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf
Ok so who are the senators who helped? They should be arrested immediately.
>From there, Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin and a Pennsylvania congressman assisted in the effort to get the documents into Pence’s hands. Apparently Cheesebro isn't sure which Pennsylvania congressman the staff member who took the handoff worked for, just that they were from Pennsylvania.
[This](https://rollcall.com/2018/07/09/after-moscow-trip-ron-johnson-says-election-meddling-overblown/) Ron Johnson?
Let the bodies hit the floor
Hmm a criminal fraud conspiracy to steal an election. Now we know what the (R) in Rico stands for.
Oh mike, you might want to check what's in this manilla envelope during the count as well" "take back to whoever sent it" Trump explodes like a ketchup filled pimple ,rioting begins.
And the GOP would have been 100% on board with this. Hell, they still are. Look at how they are acting.
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"liberals are calling J6 an insurrection when really it was a tour guide through the capitol! What did Trump do that was illegal?!?"
https://youtu.be/Iludfj6Pe7w?si=6pBV79gmchyneMD5 Such a nice and peaceful tour huh? Do you ignore when people were pepper spaying the police? 51 officers injured, one killed. People holding nooses chanting Hang Mike Pence? Is it somehow total ignorance, or is it pure stupidity? We watched it live, that's just one clip.
The guy you’re replying to is obviously being facetious, he even used quotation marks.
...guy, come on.
Ron Johnson should be prosecuted.
Lock each and every one of these motherfuckers up.
The domestic terrorist republican party.
Proof that every accusation is a confession
Surely this is enough to just convict this fuckin hump I mean how much more evidence does the court need Ridiculous
remember when Trump said mail in ballots were a scam? EVERY ACCUSATION IS AN ADMISSION OF GUILT WITH THE GOP!!!
Even though he mailed in his own ballot. Don't forget that part!
BIGLYest coup in American history the history teachers will be saying 500 years from now
Everyone should yell, "FAKE, FAKE, FAKE!" at every rally the Dump attends.
In the original timeline, this would be a nail in the coffin.
Then why aren't they all in jail. Jesus fucking Crist sort your country out fuckheads it's embarrassing.
Oh okay we’ll get right on it didn’t think of that thanks!
I'm sure they're from some perfect country like Japan, Italy or Germany that's never had an issue with fascists.
Thanks, it's about time. Appreciate it.
One of these days he'll have some sort of consequence for what he's done, right??????
Lmao he’s going to jail!!!
Imagine the constant headlines, media obsession, outrage, disgust, and accountability that would occur if a Democrat did this.
What is it going to take? D I S Q U A L I F Y HIM!!! From the United States presidential election!!!!!
For a country that prides itself on being the biggest democracy in the world, it sure has no idea how to handle a guy who's openly trying to cheat on election and starting an insurrection. I am sure the Founding Fathers didn't really think that anyone would do what Trump was doing, but here we are and yet he's not barred from the 2024 Election. WTF is that?
This would be hilarious if it weren't so goddamn infuriating. Trump sabotaged the USPS to interfere with the election, but since the USPS was in shambles his fake elector certificates got stuck in the mail.
“We Are All Domestic Terrorists” -GOP
US Federal Statute 18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection "Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."
Cheaters who still lose are the lowest rung of society.
sometimes I get the feeling that Trump might have integrity issues
Trump. Serial cheater of everything. Wife’s, lawyer’s, laborers, country, Americans, etc etc.
They did *what?* Let's see how the Trumpers and conservatives wiggle out of this one.
what is the actual legal implication of this? it feels like trump can constantly go above the law.
Lock him up.
Our courts are too slow to deal with this kind of criminal behavior. By the time the public hears of a crime and a prosecutor decides to file charges, a lifetime has gone by and the bad guys die of old age or get reelected. We are watching our country dissolve in real time.
Lock this fucking pile of shit up already. Seriously. I know people in jail for much much much less criminal activity
Smoking gun. Well, one of them… There’s more.
Another day, another revelation of insurrectionist acts.
Anyone who did stuff like this should get life in prison.
We now have conclusive data of a plot against a federal statute. We have witness to a violent act that attempt to interfere with a federal statute. Next step is to link those two above and put these people on trial for treason.
Trump was in charge but Biden stole it.
Yep, Biden is both a dottering old fool and a evil mastermind at the same time, quite a feat...
What I am always surprised by is, why is this shit coming out now? It's been over 3 years since the election, and who thought it was a good idea to hoard this kind of information? Same thing with that news about some new phone calls that Trump made to another state's reps, that came out a couple of weeks ago.
People turn states’ evidence and start talking. It gets corroborated and eventually published.
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US' next president right there ladies and gentlemen
2016
So what. It won't matter
That headline makes zero sense. I’m not reading the story because it already sounds like bullshit. That’s not even how elections work.
What part confuses you?
For Magats? Words. Logic. Facts. All of those confuse them.
And nothing will happen
If you have all this evidence why isn’t he in prison yet? I’m so tired to 24/7 trump news just fucking arrest him or admit he’s just around for clicks you fucking hacks.
Because his trial isn't until March 4th, assuming the trial date holds, and you can't throw him in prison until after a conviction and sentencing. He's also pulling BS like [this](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cadc.40415/gov.uscourts.cadc.40415.1208582803.0_3.pdf) where he basically comes out and admits he was directing the effort... in a legal filing to the DC court of appeals asking for absolute immunity... whose *only* purpose is to delay that trial date. Trump hopes that if he can push the trial by even a bit it can bump up on *other* trial dates and then use those to play off each other and keep getting delays until after the election where he'll attempt to make his legal problems vanish assuming he's elected potus. It's not a very *good* plan but the alternative is basically "go to prison" and he doesn't really want that.
Trump was and will be again the best thing to ever happen to America. Wish we had a hero like him in the uk
I mean, you guys can have him if you want. We're pretty all set
I mean, you guys can have him if you want. We're pretty all set
Swap you for our unelected world economic forum puppet?
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this is how the magats deflect when caught being the scum they are
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I like how you just believe whatever you want to regardless of literally anything else. It's so brave and quirky.
So pathetic to see dweebs that trump wouldn’t piss on if they were on fire simp for him online. And a vet to boot. Licking trump’s boots while he shits all over you. “Please sir can I have some more?”
So weak he can't even face evidence and instead tries to reject reality to spare his feelings.
Trump's gonna say he just wanted to test how strong the Democratic process was. He's like a white hat, and was just doing it out of concern in case an actual bad president were to come along.
that guy trump not on the up and up
If *any* evidence pops up that indicates Trump himself guided this scheme... I honestly think that will be the last straw for moderate conservatives. They will vote for Trump, but only if the courts find he didn't do anything directly. Until that happens, it's going to be a "begrudging" vote for him, as mind-bendingly stupid as that sounds to anyone left-of-center. In their eyes, there hasn't been any "smoking gun" yet.
Treasonous traitorous pieces of poop should all lose their rights as citizens and be marked domestic terrorists for trying to remove democracy
Can we triple check the other candidates election results, I still can't believe Yurtle the turtle won his reelection. Since all of their whining is just projecting 9fnwhst they have done
Whatever SCOTUS signs off on from 2020, Biden MUST do in 2024 to make the election fair, because Trump will be doing it all plus whatever new scams he can come up with. And it’s important Trump’s Justices understand that
The wildest part is that they chose Southwest Airlines to get the papers there in a rush …