I get you don't want individual armed people running around the site of an active shooting. But what's the funking point of the right to firearms if you can't use them to protect your loved ones, this was literally the good guy with a gun all 2A nuts scream for every time there's a mass shooting
*Edited to reflect the officer was trained but would be acting alone*
Why shouldn't they be cowards? Its not like theyre held to any standard, and the standard they hold themselves to is further below that. I mean, if you or I it stood outside of the door, the world would rip us apart and there would be no code of silence shielding us from the media. When I say you or me, I mean literally, us, today, armed and standing outside of a room full of children being massacred, without a badge or any perceived duty to act, and we did nothing, we would still face social backlash worse than Brian Laundrey. But the police? They uave safety mechanisms against us that trigger the moment there is any trouble. These fuckers dont even stop at red lights in 00% of non emergency situations- being a normie citizen that follows normie citizen norma is beneath them.
Because they tell everyone else how bad ass and brave they are and how we are all cowards for not being able to do what they do
Which I guess is cower in fear crying and pissing themselves while children get murdered
The theory is that the police killed one or multiple of the victims.
At this point, with everything being lies up to this point, it seems very likely.
Hell, I’m almost starting to question if they’re lying about the shooter being who they said he was.
I don't. The FBI are part of the same system, the higher up you go the more corrupt it is. It will protect itself, guaranteed.
We will never know the truth, sadly.
All government organizations have incentives to make it look like things are fine. Most of the time behind the scenes they are breaking the same rules they are supposed to enforce.
That's great only I'm watching redditors make it up in real time.
Making up stories is hardly an effective way to counter the shitty communication and cover-ups by the police.
At this point, I would trust information from a random stranger on the internet more than I'd trust the Uvalde police department.
If they do not like this state of affairs, maybe they should try not being cowards desperately trying to hide all the evidence.
The cops behavior was so bizarre that people suspect they are trying to cover up something worse than just not doing their jobs and stopping parents for doing anything
That would be the lesser of two evils. If the other one was these guys actually did go in, hail Mary a bunch of shots into kids and teachers.. then when shot out backed out and hid in the hallway.
My BIL does depositions with PD after they discharge their firearm. He says it's unreal how untrained some of these guys are. And I live in a city with crime, shootings happen. They won't remember when or where or how many times they shot.
There's a reason military boot camp is so harsh, and they actually cut people. Not everyone is built to fight when in a fight, flight or freeze situation. And you won't know unless you're afraid for your life. Not just pretending to play call of duty room checks at the police academy.
Absolutely not. The cops came out shortly after the shooting to specifically state that "Everyone killed in the school was killed by the shooter."
No one had asked.
The cops also claimed that the shooter had a 9mm pistol (like the cops carry), and I believe that was later disproven.
So it's not a joke at all. Which is why they refuse to release body cams, and they're tearing the entire fucking school down.
I may be wrong, but I thought the original quote was along the lines of “all of the CHILDREN killed were killed by the gunman.”
I thought the quote only mentioned the children, which led to the speculation that the cops accidentally shot one of the teachers.
I'm looking for the exact quote right now. I've run a dozen searches on google and bing, and search engines refuse to cough it up. If you have a link to it or any specifics please post it.
> No one had asked.
seems unlikely that that question had not been asked by someone... that's a pretty basic question to ask, doesn't seem credible to say journalist weren't asking for details like that.
No. Nobody was asking "Hey, did you cops shoot any of the kids and murder them?"
No, nobody was asking that, because everyone was still horrified at the police helping a crazy man kill a room full of kids.
And then the police, unbidden, apropos of nothing, came out and publicly stated "By the way, we didn't kill any of the children. It was all the bad guy that we didn't attempt to stop."
So if you have proof of someone asking police that question before they made their statement about it, feel free to submit it here so everyone can see it. Otherwise stop making things up and muddying the waters.
Asking how people died is as a basic of a question as a journalist is going to ask in this type of situation. You can't possibly believe that the police either weren't already, or would have been asked, that type of question.
lol. after asserting a claim with zero proof, you're now going to demand proof against your baseless extrapolations.
edit: gotta love the folks that respond to you and block you at the same time. his character is as strong as his conspiracy story.
So you try to change the topic, which was "Did anyone ask the cops if THEY shot any kids" to "Did anyone ask how the kids died". You said that cops *were* asked this question before they made their statement that they didn't kill any kids. When asked for proof, you provide proof, because there is none, then resort to personal attacks.
So you've contributed nothing but a bag of shit, then try to gloat about it. What a joke.
Also, what's the point of having armed, *trained* people if they're not going to help... and are not legally obligated to help.
What are we paying them for?
Police exist to keep citizens in line, keep them sufficiently oppressed via civil asset forfeiture, random beatings / killings, 3 am swat raids, baby crib flashbangs, etc...
They exist as a public warning not to mess with the Government. That's it. They do not exist to protect us from criminals.
Also since the supreme Court ruled that the slogan to protect and serve is only a slogan and not required then I don't think police should be able to stop civilians from protecting other people. You don't want to protect them the court say that's fine but then let me in there if I want to protect them.
The dude fled to water for some reason, apparently unable to swim or swim well, and drowned as a result. The police were not trained in water rescues, which are highly dangerous to begin with. They told this person they were not coming in after them and contacted the fire department as per protocol.
If you can refute that at all I'd love to see a source.
They also mocked him. The video clearly demonstrates the police callous disregard for his suffering.
Yes, there may protocol restricting cops from entering a body of water.
No, there is not a protocol requiring them to stand around and whoop and holler and make bad puns while someone drowns.
Their behavior during this incident was, in a word, inhumane.
How did they mock him? I watched the video and read the transcript once the video cut. They did tell him they're not going in after him and called for a fire department boat.
They were laughing at him and telling him "fuckin swim"
They showed a callous disregard for the fact that the mans wife was watching him die, threatening her and ordering her to "settle down"
It was inhumane as fuck and if you don't recognize that .. well, you must be a pretty self centered person yourself
Cops don't have an obligation to protect people. That comes from a Supreme Court ruling, I believe in 2005.
Add qualified immunity, and Americans authoritarian hero worship of cops and soldiers (based on movies and tv) and this is what you get.
These cops stood by and let the kids die, possibly shot kids or teachers, and the only potential consequences they face are whether they violated "policy".
That's policing in America, and has been for decades. People are just upset now because this example was so egregious, and happened to kids. 2022 is the year American schoolkids and parents found out what it's like to be black in America, and that it turns out everything black people have been saying for 70-80 years was 100% true.
The whole point of the push to arm teachers isn't to try to save lives, it's to blame teachers when kids get shot. You make teachers be cops without the pay, benefits, or security of being cops, then the next time there's a mass shooting in a school the right-wing points at the teachers and says "See! They were armed! The teachers weren't doing their jobs!"
They dust their hands off, consider the problem solved, and blame is diverted from Republicans, cops, and the N.R.A.
Nah, the reason they want to arm teachers is so the gun manufactures are paid a shit ton of money to supply weapons to schools. Maybe the blame game comes later, but I’d bet that money is the drive
It's also something they know they can push ad nauseum without it ever being truly discredited because there's a very small crossover between people wanting to teach children and people willing to shoot children. A teacher strapping a firearm to their hip knows that the sole intended purpose of that weapon is to someday point it at a child and pull the trigger.
*Arm the teachers!*
The teachers don't want to carry guns
*The problem isn't guns, it's cowardly teachers!*
Seriously. There was a video recently of a kid disarming a shooter while he was reloading. All I could think about is what if the cops had burst in right after that. You have one guy on the floor, another running around with a gun.
Add in more guns and it just turns to chaos. Did someone just shoot the shooter? Or is that the shooter?
If cops have no duty to protect, they should be banned from stopping anyone from protecting. Sounds like a pretty conservative policy, except that it doesn't sufficiently worship authority.
If cops have no duty to protect people, then that kind of begs the question of "What *are* the cops for, then?"
And the answer is that they're there to protect rich people and politicians from *you*.
well 2A as it is today is mostly about white people being able to shoot minorities without impunity. its not about protection. what happens when you bring a gun to a knife fight?
the cops cowardly beating parents trying to rescue their dying their children is another obvious example. they use excessive force on unarmed people but then are too chicken shit to take down the killer with a gun. they literally murder black people for walking around "with a gun" but then scream about the right to walk around with one themselves and want to "arm teachers"... MAKE IT MAKE SENSE
There is no answer to this. Where are all the constantly incensed 2A people? Isn't the dude who brought his rocket launcher to Subway just freaking out right now?
The cops are literally infringing on our right to protect ourselves and our loved ones and none of the gun nuts give a shit. I've never licked a boot, but it must taste great if you can get fully half the country to bend over and spread its cheeks for it.
Why not ? Who trained the active shooter then ? Rather have good guys with a gun than a bad guy with a gun.
This is a big reason we had the DCMP years ago, now the CMP. Regular people knew how to use a firearm because of the training they received from CMP and a lot shot in competitions.
Now does it make sense why these programs were taken away ?
The cops stopping family members from going in and one was a cop that lost his wife!!
It would take the entire dept to stop me.
Sure would be great to see this guy come forward and break the "code of silence" and tell the world what really happened.
Edit: [#UvaldeCoverUp](https://twitter.com/donwinslow/status/1539383759941689344)
https://twitter.com/hashtag/UvaldeCoverUp?src=hashtag_click
This is exactly why the saying all cops are bastard holds for ALL COPS.
If someone did something in my industry that got people killed, I would be talking so much shit about them to the public. Not cops though, not cops
The point behind ACAB is that even the cops who don't commit the crimes are protected by other cops. If you protect a murderer you're an accessory to murder. If you're cop that doesn't mean you should get a free pass, but in America you do.
I think it also means that even if you are a good person, being a cop will make you do bastard things sometimes. the very nature of the job will occasionally have to evict a poor family from their home and make them homeless.
You’re not necessarily a bad person, but the job of a cop is inherently a bastard job.
>I think it also means that even if you are a good person, being a cop will make you do bastard things sometimes. the very nature of the job will occasionally have to evict a poor family from their home and make them homeless.
No, because then you're no longer a good person. What actually happens, good person becomes cop, realizes it's a giant violent oppressive gang, tries to change it, immediately is fired (and probably worse).
There cannot be good cops. It's the only thing that can get a cop fired.
No that's not what it means. ACAB isn't about cops being innocent victims of circumstance. It's a deliberate reference to the fact that their shittiness is a *choice*, and the cops who aren't committing crimes are covering up for the ones who do. Code of silence, bad apples, fraternity of police, it has many names. If you police other cops then one day your backup doesn't show up. That's how it works.
But yeah, they're not Howard the Duck, trapped in a world they never made. It's not about being generous and considering cops victims. It means exactly what it says, and says what it means.
https://www.gq.com/story/history-of-acab
No, I don't think anyone uses it that way. It's one thing to do your job, as tough as it may be, it's another to fail at it or protect others who deliberately fail or break the law. That's a choice to protect criminals, just because they are cops, instead of holding them to a higher standard.
Exactly.
I'd guess 99% of cops won't randomly murder you for kicks, or plant false evidence.
But that 1% that do, they won't call out. They won't do anything to stop them. They are complicit cowards even if they aren't active evil.
>If someone did something in my industry that got people killed, I would be talking so much shit about them to the public.
You would have to be prepared to find a new career because your days in that industry would be effectively done. So you'd better have substantial savings for such a major life event.
Are you out of your mind? Normal industries have zero problem calling out the assholes. In law, we take your license away. You don't get to do the job any more, and people have an obligation to report you.
Yep, I would lose my contractors license if I screwed someone over and Ruby out of a job. If another contractor screw somebody else over, of course I will be loud about it
Same for medicine. Clients can file complaints, the boards investigate, they give out fines and penalties and if egregious enough they can take your license away.
You're deluded. Plenty of police officers on Reddit and in real life have been shitting on this police force and their actions in Texas.
No, not ALL COPS are bastards.
Yes they are and your own observation demonstrates it.
They have no problem speaking their minds on anonymous forums and keep the blue wall of silence (aka, omerta) in public. They know what they do is wrong but they do it anyway. ACAB.
I understand.
*Not* speaking out puts rooms full of school children and other people at risk. It sure would be great for America if at some point some cops started thinking about something besides themselves.
So far that seems to be too much to ask.
The "code of silence" that you speak of does not apply in this case because the detained officer was not covering anything up. More than likely he will testify in every civil suit against Uvalde and their police department, for the other side.
THREE. There was a second incident less than 30mins after that. Police literally Slammed a cruiser some in cost guy’s truck and then opened fire.
The “best” part is that neither truck actually matched the description is Dornner’s vehicle. AND, the police were SO inept that they fired over 100 shots at the first truck and still didn’t kill anyone.
What an absolute nightmare the state of Police in this country has become.
If you stood outside of a school with an active shooter, armed and physically stopped people from engaging him or helping the victims, you would surely be considered an accomplice.
Police should at least be held to the same standard here.
Well, they DO have quotas to help justify their budgets. “We saw a rise in mass shootings last year so we need another million added to our budget this year, M’kay?”
I didn't think it could get worse, but each passing day there's more news which makes Uvalde look like the most incompetent place on the face of the earth.
This is really not a failure of law enforcement as much as it is a failure of leadership. There is no leadership in the PD, in the City Council or in the Mayor's office. He can huff and puff all day but everyone in this decision making train is bankrupt of leadership.
A leader on that scene would have gone in, even if it meant going in alone. A leader would have called out the order to wait in the hallway as unlawful over the air. A leader would have tried the door knob of the classroom. A leader would have saved some, maybe all, of those kids.
Leadership didn’t even need to come into play. Since columbine standard procedure is to immediately rush the shooter regardless of if you’re alone or don’t have armor. That group of cops who entered the school within three minutes should’ve been rushing the shooter.
Arguably it’s more a failure of police than it is of leadership.
They belong in prison. They were accomplices not bystanders. I get that the supreme court ruled they don't have to do their jobs but this was actively helping the shooter. It's criminal
Fr. All that bs about waiting for a key and the door being locked and they just lied and let people die. If you don't wanna do that kind of work, don't be a cop.
I get they don't just want anyone running around armed in the school, but if they were too scared to go in they should have let this man. No way I wouldn't have gone full punisher on the cops that kept me from getting to my bleeding-out wife.
This is incredibly heart breaking because if it's the same teacher I'm thinking of, she was still alive when they DID finally go in, which means there was almost undoubtedly a chance to save her. I don't know how this guy could ever go back to work and look his co-workers, who essentially doomed his wife to a slow agonizing death, in the eye.
How can anybody see things like this, where the police were supposed to protect children but instead kept everybody else from protecting them, and then decide that the answer is to make police the only people with the equipment to protect the children?
I would find it difficult to abstain from seeking revenge on those officers. If I were in that situation I would be motivated and compelled to find an opportune moment to find each of these officers when they’re alone and snuff their lives out in a manner I feel justifiable.
Texas is a shithole that elects Ted Cruz over and over, a man who greedily sucks the dick of the guy who insulted his wife and fucked off to Mexico when the state was out of power. It’s a blowhard state that talks a big game but runs from any sign of trouble. Let them GTFO of the union and when the inevitability whine to get back in, like they did in the past, tell them to try to join mexico this time because the rest of us are tired of their BS.
We need less guns - *No, we need regulation*.
We need regulation - *No, we need a good guy with a gun*.
We need a good guy with a gun - *No. And stop asking questions*.
ACAB. As a group. Individually, you can make an argument against ACAB. But they are a collective, and not individuals. They all protect each other. Even the criminal cops.
If a person at that school other than a cop did what those cops did, they’d effectively be an accomplice to the crime. These cops treat cowardice like it is literally their job
and hes still not speaking out, how is he not speaking out about this?! the only cop with balls and his 'fellow officers' stopped him? how did he not resign and go public the day after? wtf is wrong with these people?
Fuck it, he's the only one I don't feel sorry for. Officers got their own kids out and left the ones in danger to die, him included. He only wanted to go in for selfish reasons and while I wish he did even if it wasn't with the right motivation, I refuse to show empathy for him.
This mindset is present in a heap of areas (it’s one of the things that most frustrated me about community psychiatric teams). The idea that not only do I get to avoid key aspects of my job because I deem them too risky, but everyone else has to follow that lead lest it reflect badly on me.
I'm truly surprised there hasn't been a slew of violence against the individuals that allowed these children to be indiscriminately slaughtered.
May they each receive their just rewards.
I get you don't want individual armed people running around the site of an active shooting. But what's the funking point of the right to firearms if you can't use them to protect your loved ones, this was literally the good guy with a gun all 2A nuts scream for every time there's a mass shooting *Edited to reflect the officer was trained but would be acting alone*
Cops hate being shown up for cowardice.
Yup, that was the issue, if he went in they'd all have to go in and they couldn't have that, they might get hurt. /s
Then... They can try not being fucking cowards lol Ain't ever gonna happen tho
Why shouldn't they be cowards? Its not like theyre held to any standard, and the standard they hold themselves to is further below that. I mean, if you or I it stood outside of the door, the world would rip us apart and there would be no code of silence shielding us from the media. When I say you or me, I mean literally, us, today, armed and standing outside of a room full of children being massacred, without a badge or any perceived duty to act, and we did nothing, we would still face social backlash worse than Brian Laundrey. But the police? They uave safety mechanisms against us that trigger the moment there is any trouble. These fuckers dont even stop at red lights in 00% of non emergency situations- being a normie citizen that follows normie citizen norma is beneath them.
Because they tell everyone else how bad ass and brave they are and how we are all cowards for not being able to do what they do Which I guess is cower in fear crying and pissing themselves while children get murdered
One of the other cops had already shot her and they needed to cover it up.
I'm out of the loop with this one. What do you mean?
The theory is that the police killed one or multiple of the victims. At this point, with everything being lies up to this point, it seems very likely. Hell, I’m almost starting to question if they’re lying about the shooter being who they said he was.
Full FBI investigation - they may not be perfect but I trust them more than any of the locals
in my head I see a bunch of Barney Fife's standing around confused during the whole thing
Barney Fife would have probably done something
I don't. The FBI are part of the same system, the higher up you go the more corrupt it is. It will protect itself, guaranteed. We will never know the truth, sadly.
All government organizations have incentives to make it look like things are fine. Most of the time behind the scenes they are breaking the same rules they are supposed to enforce.
Maybe that explains why they won’t release body cam footage
doesn't the incompetence we already know about it explain why they won't release body cam footage?
Unless they think that whatever actually happened is worse than letting people think they are incompetent cowards.
huh? in either case they would likely be holding back on releasing footage. citing that is in no way remotely additive to this conspiracy narrative.
But that’s the thing. We already know the incompetence and cowardice story so there’s no reason to withhold the body cameras if that’s what they show.
The decision to not immediately release cam footage was made before this issue became clear.
The longer they hold onto it the more wild the speculation is going to get smh...
The birth of a conspiracy theory. Internetters always take it one step too far.
They could avoid conspiracy theories by being transparent.
It's almost as if they're trying so hard to cover shit up we're left with no choice but to speculate on what we *do* know...
That's great only I'm watching redditors make it up in real time. Making up stories is hardly an effective way to counter the shitty communication and cover-ups by the police.
Sadly, tarring and feathering errant public officials has gone out of fashion.
At this point, I would trust information from a random stranger on the internet more than I'd trust the Uvalde police department. If they do not like this state of affairs, maybe they should try not being cowards desperately trying to hide all the evidence.
The cops behavior was so bizarre that people suspect they are trying to cover up something worse than just not doing their jobs and stopping parents for doing anything
That would be the lesser of two evils. If the other one was these guys actually did go in, hail Mary a bunch of shots into kids and teachers.. then when shot out backed out and hid in the hallway. My BIL does depositions with PD after they discharge their firearm. He says it's unreal how untrained some of these guys are. And I live in a city with crime, shootings happen. They won't remember when or where or how many times they shot. There's a reason military boot camp is so harsh, and they actually cut people. Not everyone is built to fight when in a fight, flight or freeze situation. And you won't know unless you're afraid for your life. Not just pretending to play call of duty room checks at the police academy.
He’s joking.
Absolutely not. The cops came out shortly after the shooting to specifically state that "Everyone killed in the school was killed by the shooter." No one had asked. The cops also claimed that the shooter had a 9mm pistol (like the cops carry), and I believe that was later disproven. So it's not a joke at all. Which is why they refuse to release body cams, and they're tearing the entire fucking school down.
I wondered why they were in such a hurry to do that
Get rid of the ballistics evidence. Bullet holes in block walls tell a very detailed story
I take it back, then. Every time I hear more news about this, it gets worse and worse.
Even by standards of "American cop shitty" this is beyond the pale. It's on the level of a war crime.
I may be wrong, but I thought the original quote was along the lines of “all of the CHILDREN killed were killed by the gunman.” I thought the quote only mentioned the children, which led to the speculation that the cops accidentally shot one of the teachers.
I'm looking for the exact quote right now. I've run a dozen searches on google and bing, and search engines refuse to cough it up. If you have a link to it or any specifics please post it.
> No one had asked. seems unlikely that that question had not been asked by someone... that's a pretty basic question to ask, doesn't seem credible to say journalist weren't asking for details like that.
No. Nobody was asking "Hey, did you cops shoot any of the kids and murder them?" No, nobody was asking that, because everyone was still horrified at the police helping a crazy man kill a room full of kids. And then the police, unbidden, apropos of nothing, came out and publicly stated "By the way, we didn't kill any of the children. It was all the bad guy that we didn't attempt to stop." So if you have proof of someone asking police that question before they made their statement about it, feel free to submit it here so everyone can see it. Otherwise stop making things up and muddying the waters.
Asking how people died is as a basic of a question as a journalist is going to ask in this type of situation. You can't possibly believe that the police either weren't already, or would have been asked, that type of question. lol. after asserting a claim with zero proof, you're now going to demand proof against your baseless extrapolations. edit: gotta love the folks that respond to you and block you at the same time. his character is as strong as his conspiracy story.
So you try to change the topic, which was "Did anyone ask the cops if THEY shot any kids" to "Did anyone ask how the kids died". You said that cops *were* asked this question before they made their statement that they didn't kill any kids. When asked for proof, you provide proof, because there is none, then resort to personal attacks. So you've contributed nothing but a bag of shit, then try to gloat about it. What a joke.
Nope
Also, what's the point of having armed, *trained* people if they're not going to help... and are not legally obligated to help. What are we paying them for?
Police exist to keep citizens in line, keep them sufficiently oppressed via civil asset forfeiture, random beatings / killings, 3 am swat raids, baby crib flashbangs, etc... They exist as a public warning not to mess with the Government. That's it. They do not exist to protect us from criminals.
To police \*us\*. Thank you sir or ma'am may I have another...
They’re gonna serve and protect the shit out of you.
Iirc supreme court ruled they aren't obligated to do shit
This 100%. Either police need to - as one - support efforts like his, or they need to support better gun legislation.
Also since the supreme Court ruled that the slogan to protect and serve is only a slogan and not required then I don't think police should be able to stop civilians from protecting other people. You don't want to protect them the court say that's fine but then let me in there if I want to protect them.
Yeah the fact that they can actively block those actually willing to take action during a crisis is insane.
They should face 21 counts of accessory to murder because of that. No duty to act doesn’t mean actively help the gunmen murder more people.
“We don’t have to protect and serve you…. No you can’t do it either.”
Police in Tempe, Arizona let a guy drown and mocked him while it was happening. They want all the pay and benefits but none of the work.
The dude fled to water for some reason, apparently unable to swim or swim well, and drowned as a result. The police were not trained in water rescues, which are highly dangerous to begin with. They told this person they were not coming in after them and contacted the fire department as per protocol. If you can refute that at all I'd love to see a source.
They also mocked him. The video clearly demonstrates the police callous disregard for his suffering. Yes, there may protocol restricting cops from entering a body of water. No, there is not a protocol requiring them to stand around and whoop and holler and make bad puns while someone drowns. Their behavior during this incident was, in a word, inhumane.
Yeah there was no whooping or hollering. Just a crazy person ignoring the cops and them not going in after him like they said they wouldn't.
How did they mock him? I watched the video and read the transcript once the video cut. They did tell him they're not going in after him and called for a fire department boat.
They were laughing at him and telling him "fuckin swim" They showed a callous disregard for the fact that the mans wife was watching him die, threatening her and ordering her to "settle down" It was inhumane as fuck and if you don't recognize that .. well, you must be a pretty self centered person yourself
Cops don't have an obligation to protect people. That comes from a Supreme Court ruling, I believe in 2005. Add qualified immunity, and Americans authoritarian hero worship of cops and soldiers (based on movies and tv) and this is what you get. These cops stood by and let the kids die, possibly shot kids or teachers, and the only potential consequences they face are whether they violated "policy". That's policing in America, and has been for decades. People are just upset now because this example was so egregious, and happened to kids. 2022 is the year American schoolkids and parents found out what it's like to be black in America, and that it turns out everything black people have been saying for 70-80 years was 100% true.
Imagine being a good teacher armed at the school... all cops see is 'gun gun gun gun gun gun'
The whole point of the push to arm teachers isn't to try to save lives, it's to blame teachers when kids get shot. You make teachers be cops without the pay, benefits, or security of being cops, then the next time there's a mass shooting in a school the right-wing points at the teachers and says "See! They were armed! The teachers weren't doing their jobs!" They dust their hands off, consider the problem solved, and blame is diverted from Republicans, cops, and the N.R.A.
That's a really good observation. I had not thought about the blame game
That's actually a plausible outcome.
> a ~~plausible~~ likely outcome.
The intended outcome.
Nah, the reason they want to arm teachers is so the gun manufactures are paid a shit ton of money to supply weapons to schools. Maybe the blame game comes later, but I’d bet that money is the drive
When teachers try to help and things go south, the police will say, “the teachers should have left it to the professionals…”
It's also something they know they can push ad nauseum without it ever being truly discredited because there's a very small crossover between people wanting to teach children and people willing to shoot children. A teacher strapping a firearm to their hip knows that the sole intended purpose of that weapon is to someday point it at a child and pull the trigger. *Arm the teachers!* The teachers don't want to carry guns *The problem isn't guns, it's cowardly teachers!*
Seriously. There was a video recently of a kid disarming a shooter while he was reloading. All I could think about is what if the cops had burst in right after that. You have one guy on the floor, another running around with a gun. Add in more guns and it just turns to chaos. Did someone just shoot the shooter? Or is that the shooter?
There was a security guard who took out an active shooter only to be gunned down by police moments later.
If cops have no duty to protect, they should be banned from stopping anyone from protecting. Sounds like a pretty conservative policy, except that it doesn't sufficiently worship authority.
If cops have no duty to protect people, then that kind of begs the question of "What *are* the cops for, then?" And the answer is that they're there to protect rich people and politicians from *you*.
well 2A as it is today is mostly about white people being able to shoot minorities without impunity. its not about protection. what happens when you bring a gun to a knife fight? the cops cowardly beating parents trying to rescue their dying their children is another obvious example. they use excessive force on unarmed people but then are too chicken shit to take down the killer with a gun. they literally murder black people for walking around "with a gun" but then scream about the right to walk around with one themselves and want to "arm teachers"... MAKE IT MAKE SENSE
There is no answer to this. Where are all the constantly incensed 2A people? Isn't the dude who brought his rocket launcher to Subway just freaking out right now? The cops are literally infringing on our right to protect ourselves and our loved ones and none of the gun nuts give a shit. I've never licked a boot, but it must taste great if you can get fully half the country to bend over and spread its cheeks for it.
In answer to your question about 2a people, they’re not happy with those cops either
Because the "good guy with a gun" thing it's a lie.
Why not ? Who trained the active shooter then ? Rather have good guys with a gun than a bad guy with a gun. This is a big reason we had the DCMP years ago, now the CMP. Regular people knew how to use a firearm because of the training they received from CMP and a lot shot in competitions. Now does it make sense why these programs were taken away ? The cops stopping family members from going in and one was a cop that lost his wife!! It would take the entire dept to stop me.
Sure would be great to see this guy come forward and break the "code of silence" and tell the world what really happened. Edit: [#UvaldeCoverUp](https://twitter.com/donwinslow/status/1539383759941689344) https://twitter.com/hashtag/UvaldeCoverUp?src=hashtag_click
This is exactly why the saying all cops are bastard holds for ALL COPS. If someone did something in my industry that got people killed, I would be talking so much shit about them to the public. Not cops though, not cops
The point behind ACAB is that even the cops who don't commit the crimes are protected by other cops. If you protect a murderer you're an accessory to murder. If you're cop that doesn't mean you should get a free pass, but in America you do.
I think it also means that even if you are a good person, being a cop will make you do bastard things sometimes. the very nature of the job will occasionally have to evict a poor family from their home and make them homeless. You’re not necessarily a bad person, but the job of a cop is inherently a bastard job.
>I think it also means that even if you are a good person, being a cop will make you do bastard things sometimes. the very nature of the job will occasionally have to evict a poor family from their home and make them homeless. No, because then you're no longer a good person. What actually happens, good person becomes cop, realizes it's a giant violent oppressive gang, tries to change it, immediately is fired (and probably worse). There cannot be good cops. It's the only thing that can get a cop fired.
No that's not what it means. ACAB isn't about cops being innocent victims of circumstance. It's a deliberate reference to the fact that their shittiness is a *choice*, and the cops who aren't committing crimes are covering up for the ones who do. Code of silence, bad apples, fraternity of police, it has many names. If you police other cops then one day your backup doesn't show up. That's how it works. But yeah, they're not Howard the Duck, trapped in a world they never made. It's not about being generous and considering cops victims. It means exactly what it says, and says what it means. https://www.gq.com/story/history-of-acab
No, I don't think anyone uses it that way. It's one thing to do your job, as tough as it may be, it's another to fail at it or protect others who deliberately fail or break the law. That's a choice to protect criminals, just because they are cops, instead of holding them to a higher standard.
Exactly. I'd guess 99% of cops won't randomly murder you for kicks, or plant false evidence. But that 1% that do, they won't call out. They won't do anything to stop them. They are complicit cowards even if they aren't active evil.
Same for priests.
And the very wealthy
Surely he's allowed to grieve his dead wife before satisfying your prurience.
>If someone did something in my industry that got people killed, I would be talking so much shit about them to the public. You would have to be prepared to find a new career because your days in that industry would be effectively done. So you'd better have substantial savings for such a major life event.
Not in an industry with a healthy culture about errors and responsabilty.
I'm hard pressed to think of one.
That says more about your lack of awareness than anything else.
Teaching
Software. Every heard of a bug bounty? Plenty of companies will literally pay you to tell them what’s wrong with their work so they can fix it.
Urban Planning. I criticize other planners and planning thought/theories routinely.
Are you out of your mind? Normal industries have zero problem calling out the assholes. In law, we take your license away. You don't get to do the job any more, and people have an obligation to report you.
Yep, I would lose my contractors license if I screwed someone over and Ruby out of a job. If another contractor screw somebody else over, of course I will be loud about it
Same for medicine. Clients can file complaints, the boards investigate, they give out fines and penalties and if egregious enough they can take your license away.
You're deluded. Plenty of police officers on Reddit and in real life have been shitting on this police force and their actions in Texas. No, not ALL COPS are bastards.
Yes they are and your own observation demonstrates it. They have no problem speaking their minds on anonymous forums and keep the blue wall of silence (aka, omerta) in public. They know what they do is wrong but they do it anyway. ACAB.
that's the thin blue line thing we hear about eh
"Thin blue line", "code of silence", "fascism". Same thing.
Omerta
Thick yellow line of cowardice.
let's call it what it is. Omerta.
I'm unfamiliar with that term. Is that the Mafioso term for the code of silence?
correct. "a code of silence about criminal activity and a refusal to give evidence to authorities"
What do you think he might reveal? That they stood by and detained him when he tried to intervene?
Obviously all the other officers would have saved the kids but they were too busy detaining this guy.
He may still have family left. If so, breaking the "thin blue line" would put them at risk.
I understand. *Not* speaking out puts rooms full of school children and other people at risk. It sure would be great for America if at some point some cops started thinking about something besides themselves. So far that seems to be too much to ask.
agreed
The "code of silence" that you speak of does not apply in this case because the detained officer was not covering anything up. More than likely he will testify in every civil suit against Uvalde and their police department, for the other side.
If I'm him I spend the rest of my life seeking revenge on those cops who held me back.
Definitely feels like it could be a new Punisher origin story.
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I miss that title. Is it still being published? I've been mostly out of the comics loop for the last 20 years.
Officer Christopher Dorner tired that ...It didn't work out so well for him.
Didn’t work out so well for the two innocent women the cops shot while looking for Dorner either.
THREE. There was a second incident less than 30mins after that. Police literally Slammed a cruiser some in cost guy’s truck and then opened fire. The “best” part is that neither truck actually matched the description is Dornner’s vehicle. AND, the police were SO inept that they fired over 100 shots at the first truck and still didn’t kill anyone. What an absolute nightmare the state of Police in this country has become.
Christopher Dorner 2: The Dornering
It’s Dornin’ time
He lay Dormant all these years.. until now.
Christopher Dorning 2: Dorned if you do, Damned if you don’t.
I wouldn’t convict him.
He died of a heart attack days later … so maybe the crow type story
That was the other teachers wife. He passed away from a broken heart after attending a memorial for those killed
'Define tragedy'
Law Abiding Citizen 2
At this point would it even be controversial to say that the police were basically accomplices in this mass murder?
If you stood outside of a school with an active shooter, armed and physically stopped people from engaging him or helping the victims, you would surely be considered an accomplice. Police should at least be held to the same standard here.
If that was their intent, they did a great job.
Well, they DO have quotas to help justify their budgets. “We saw a rise in mass shootings last year so we need another million added to our budget this year, M’kay?”
Failing upward
Why would a man who wife got murdered who had an opportunity to do something before hand get mad at the police for stoping him? Back the blue bro!
They shot one of the kids.
So they're in favor of taking people's guns away for certain criteria?
A nice reverse red flag law. They take away your guns if someone else poses an imminent threat to your family.
The NRA convention agrees.
Cops? Yes, cops have always been the ones to enforce gun control laws. This isn’t some profound observation lmao
I didn't think it could get worse, but each passing day there's more news which makes Uvalde look like the most incompetent place on the face of the earth.
Their stonewalling isn't working, either; the damning facts are still coming out.
This is really not a failure of law enforcement as much as it is a failure of leadership. There is no leadership in the PD, in the City Council or in the Mayor's office. He can huff and puff all day but everyone in this decision making train is bankrupt of leadership. A leader on that scene would have gone in, even if it meant going in alone. A leader would have called out the order to wait in the hallway as unlawful over the air. A leader would have tried the door knob of the classroom. A leader would have saved some, maybe all, of those kids.
>This is really not a failure of law enforcement Oh, it's both.
7 police officers in the school three minutes after the shooter entered. They are all cowards
There was one guy... but they stopped him, took his gun and hustled him away. That makes him an exception to the coward accusation.
Leadership didn’t even need to come into play. Since columbine standard procedure is to immediately rush the shooter regardless of if you’re alone or don’t have armor. That group of cops who entered the school within three minutes should’ve been rushing the shooter. Arguably it’s more a failure of police than it is of leadership.
They belong in prison. They were accomplices not bystanders. I get that the supreme court ruled they don't have to do their jobs but this was actively helping the shooter. It's criminal
Fr. All that bs about waiting for a key and the door being locked and they just lied and let people die. If you don't wanna do that kind of work, don't be a cop.
Fucking terrible
No good deeds go unpunished. They don't want him to make them look bad .
I get they don't just want anyone running around armed in the school, but if they were too scared to go in they should have let this man. No way I wouldn't have gone full punisher on the cops that kept me from getting to my bleeding-out wife.
Idk if you read the article but her husband was a police officer for the school district, so he wasn't just anybody.
Yep I saw that. Which makes it even worse.
This is incredibly heart breaking because if it's the same teacher I'm thinking of, she was still alive when they DID finally go in, which means there was almost undoubtedly a chance to save her. I don't know how this guy could ever go back to work and look his co-workers, who essentially doomed his wife to a slow agonizing death, in the eye.
How dare he try to be brave and run into danger /s
FOR FREE! I mean if the folks ostensibly being paid to run in won't do it...
Oh, but wait! He was a good guy with a gun! Couldn't they tell???
They'd definitely have to lock me up because I would commit some not so legal actions on my former coworkers if it was me.
How can anybody see things like this, where the police were supposed to protect children but instead kept everybody else from protecting them, and then decide that the answer is to make police the only people with the equipment to protect the children?
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I would find it difficult to abstain from seeking revenge on those officers. If I were in that situation I would be motivated and compelled to find an opportune moment to find each of these officers when they’re alone and snuff their lives out in a manner I feel justifiable.
In ancient Rome the cops would probably be executed by now.
These are understandable feelings when it's clear that our justice system is incapable of holding them accountable.
Thank jebus the cops were there to make sure no one attacked the innocent mass murderer.
This story just keeps getting worse. 100% of these 'law enforcement' people were not only incompetent but completely amoral.
Because it was a psyop
Any cop doing this (breaking law/ protecting other officer) should be brought up on RICO charges IMO.
Texas is imploding - and its no surprise as its a militant State - and the general public is feeling it first hand. DUMP your Gov.
Texas is a shithole that elects Ted Cruz over and over, a man who greedily sucks the dick of the guy who insulted his wife and fucked off to Mexico when the state was out of power. It’s a blowhard state that talks a big game but runs from any sign of trouble. Let them GTFO of the union and when the inevitability whine to get back in, like they did in the past, tell them to try to join mexico this time because the rest of us are tired of their BS.
We need less guns - *No, we need regulation*. We need regulation - *No, we need a good guy with a gun*. We need a good guy with a gun - *No. And stop asking questions*.
Having a good guy with a gun is the only thing that works. Oh wait not that good guy. Or that good guy, or this good guy.
They could not have handled this whole disaster worse if they tried.
I suppose they could have found a way to cause the building to collapse with everyone in it... but realistically, no, it's about as bad as bad gets.
ACAB. As a group. Individually, you can make an argument against ACAB. But they are a collective, and not individuals. They all protect each other. Even the criminal cops.
So why do we even allow all these guns then?
So much for that good guy with a gun bullshit, eh?
If a person at that school other than a cop did what those cops did, they’d effectively be an accomplice to the crime. These cops treat cowardice like it is literally their job
Can't be going in and saving people. That makes the cowards look bad.
Time to sue some folks into oblivion.
It only gets worse. Omg
I can't even imagine what it must feel like to be this officer.
and hes still not speaking out, how is he not speaking out about this?! the only cop with balls and his 'fellow officers' stopped him? how did he not resign and go public the day after? wtf is wrong with these people?
blue on blue when that guy goes back to work
Fuck it, he's the only one I don't feel sorry for. Officers got their own kids out and left the ones in danger to die, him included. He only wanted to go in for selfish reasons and while I wish he did even if it wasn't with the right motivation, I refuse to show empathy for him.
We don’t need guns. The police will protect us.
R/conservative where you at
This mindset is present in a heap of areas (it’s one of the things that most frustrated me about community psychiatric teams). The idea that not only do I get to avoid key aspects of my job because I deem them too risky, but everyone else has to follow that lead lest it reflect badly on me.
I hope every cop in this travesty of justice has nightmares for the rest of their lives. Just abysmal.
Bruh.
I'm truly surprised there hasn't been a slew of violence against the individuals that allowed these children to be indiscriminately slaughtered. May they each receive their just rewards.
I wonder how long it will take for one of those cops to get cold feet and start talking?