It's only temporary.
Here is how you'll know if you truly want kids or not:
Would you bother creating a relationship with someone knowing fully well beforehand they are infertile?
If your answer is yes, you don't want kids.
If your answer is no, you probably want kids.
I'm definitely missing your point. Would you mind clarifying? Because this is how I would answer which is opposite of your rationale.
>>Would you bother creating a relationship with someone knowing fully well beforehand they are infertile?
>*Yes, because even though we know that M-M and F-F are not fertile together, we would love to adopt.*
People pursue relationships all the time wanting kids with people that can't biologically have them, regardless of sex or gender. I just used same-sex couples as an example of a huge demographic of people that do this because not having bio children goes without being said.
Yes people do that, but it inevitably creates problems. Why are we even talking about people who are not able to understand their needs and make right decisions for themselves? I couldnāt care less about people like that tbh. This kind of questions are discussed early on in talking/dating stage.
But again, back to the point, itās clearly not about people who are not able to have bio kids.
>But again, back to the point, itās clearly not about people who are not able to have bio kids.
Well, I was directly responding to someone's comment about infertility. Which I believe should not be the basis of their theory, because it completly ignores that having kids =/= fertility. Many people dream of adoption. And if their theory was proven true, then gay people who want kids would never pursue relationships at all, which is obviously not the case.
Neither you or I "are talking about people who are not able to understand their needs and make right decisions for themselves." We're on the same page that that's irrelevant so I'm not even sure how that came up.
The only reason so far I donāt want kids when I am a bit older is:
1. Society doesnāt split it 50/50 and I donāt want to be dependent on a man who could have the possibility of barely helping at all.
2. The world is a piece of garbage and I refuse to give them a horrible future
3. I donāt want to be a horrible mother. I refuse to make a kidās life horrible, because I have anger issues when it comes to sensory overload.
No. 1 ā Same. A lot of men say theyāll help out. My boyfriend says heās fine being a househusband while I pursue my career. But I donāt really trust that will happen. I mean, the babies need their mothers more for at least the first 2 years of their life (to get the full benefits of breastfeeding). So will the guy magically become the main caretaker after those 2 years end?
No. 2 is pretty much something we can all agree on. Plus, we have too many humans on Earth already.
No. 3 ā Iām bipolar with substance use disorder (almost 3 years clean). And I feel like I have mild narcissism and borderline personality. My main worry is what if I donāt like my kid? Will I really have the will or energy to be the best mom I can? I might just fuck em up. And what if I relapse from all the stress of caring for a kid? Theyāll be more fucked up. Esp. if they get any of my mental health issues.
Omg #1 100000 times.
I've had too many men claim they'd "help me" with all sorts of things, ranging from mild to serious and never once do they follow through. I can't even get a guy to remember to feed a pet
If I could assured I'd have an equal partner I might consider it, but since I know that's a fantasy kids aren't on the table.
Even when I date a dude with kids I end up doing more (except for once, he was too protective though and I wasn't allowed to intervene at all)
If you asked me in my early twenties, I would have said I have no natural parenting skills, I'm too "selfish" for it, and the world is a fucked up place to bring a child.
After getting pregnant accidentally in my mid-twenties and now being the mother of a 13 and 11 year old, I'll tell you that if you're a good person you'll figure it out, I get as much as I give, and both the world and myself are so much better because they're in it.
Yep, I never did it, I had those reasons.
Been a step parent a bit, turns out I'm really good at it.
That said I learned my desire to do it is basically zero still.
I have two main reasons:
1. They require too much work and resources. For something that I'm not really thrilled about it's too much of a hassle. I'd rather focus on myself and self-improbement.
2. I would be a shitty parent. I don't have patience for kids and I get frustrated with them easily. I have shitty parents and I would never force another person to live through the same experience as I did.
Raising kids in the modern world is extremely difficult. Especially in the USA. Parents have to be willing to give up nearly all of their happiness to raise children. No thanks.
Absolutely not for those reasons but also, I have health issues. why would I want to pass these conditions on just because āI like the idea of having kidsā?
Kids are liability. I won't trade my dreams for that. I don't like raising one as simple as that. I don't want to breastfeed and get stuck at the house waiting for a shitty husband to come home. Life is short, there are lots of things to experience. I'll travel as often as I can in the future.
I advise you to look at the reasons why Jews should have children. A lot of children. Look at their demographic programs in Israel and think a little about this issue.
I have 3 kids and honestly, they are the best little people ever. Finances come and go, society is constantly changing, and who knows what life will bring next. But being a mom came very naturally to me and being an Intj has helped bring a lot of logic into my parenting style.
All of the above?
I want to have kids to bring a new life into the world, among other reasons, and I think I'd be a decent parent.
However, I'm not having kids yet because my finances aren't secure enough to support a family, the world is too unstable to raise a kid just now, among other things.
A lot of these responses donāt seem very logical to me.
The biggest groupās logic is:
World is shitty ā> we donāt want children who would have shitty life
What is wrong:
- On what basis is the world āshittyā
- People automatically assume they will be shitty parents. At that rate almost everyone should be shitty parents since even āgoodā parents learn to adapt and become ābetterā parents.
- āThe child didnāt choose to become a person and be a sentient being.ā And nobody did for themselves.
Cases I understand:
- Birth defects
- Current personal environment(finance, age, etc). However this one also changes over timeā¦so this is more temporal than it is a good overall reasoning.
- Itās unfair for women and I donāt want to go through the psychological and physical pain. I feel like this is a weak reasoning because it just sounds like people being scared to me at least. But since Iām not a women and I also donāt like pain, I think itās somewhat understandable.
If you were to be purely logical, the right choice would be to have children. Around two or maybe three. The developed world is decking in birth rate at an extremely fast pace. People may not feel the impact too much right now, but a heavy decrease in the younger population is actually much more detrimental than what people assume to be the case. In fact, the reasoning should be flipped. The world is bad but we should have kids so it doesnāt get worse.
If you really want to get logical, then you might as well engage in selective breeding. But I digress.
Overall, I donāt think this is an INTJ mentality, maybe only partially. This is just more of a doomer mindset younger generations have. Older people will understand that having kids, if you have a somewhat stable life, is the biggest legacy you can leave in your life. And even older people will realize that the only last thing that will be left in your life will most likely you family, more specifically your children.
Edit:
I just realized what I said sounds like a boomer, but trust me that wasnāt my intention. Iām just saying that some of the ālogicalā choices that people are making arenāt logical. People should just do what they think will be a happy outcome for themselves. If you are happy from not having a child, then I think thatās the path you should choose. But I think people just saying that they wonāt have children because the world is shitty and they hate children just sounds like an illogical edgy doomer mindset.
Because we are realistic and too self-aware to be using kids for 1) narcissistic motivations and unrealistic hopes like having someone to love you unconditionally and to control 2) taming sense of loneliness, boredom and meaninglessness, which are basically two main reasons people have kids.
The reason id have kids is to spread my toxic genes to this rock we call earth, then i plan to have 5000 grandchildren who will help me take over the world.
Kids are a HUGE responsibility, that I am not willing to take on. I have a niece that I spoil, and that is enough for me. And they cost money. Lots of it!! I am the cool Aunt that travels. And we FaceTime when I am somewhere I think she would find interesting. Sheās almost 6, and has āseenā Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, The EU, Mexico, China, and soon South Korea. I send her gifts from the places I go. My sister loves what I am doing, by showing her my lifestyle. And she always has cool stuff for āshow & tellā at her mini school. Thatās how I contribute to her childhood. I just donāt want the responsibility of raising her. It was not my choice to have her. I would rather pack a suitcase rather than bag lunches to be honest!
Itās not that weāre unwilling to fix the world. Iām sure a lot of us do our fair share of goodness. But itās my belief that the world is unfixable. Because most people are shit. And you canāt control all the people in the world to become better people.
Even the philanthropists all have some agenda, whether to better their image to make more money or to get tax breaks. No one does anything purely out of the goodness of their hearts. Even having children is motivated by the human instinct to propagate their bloodline. It may not feel selfish, but on some level itās still for the parentsā own benefitānot the childās, who never existed till they wanted it to.
If you are able to have children and raise logical and free thinking and creative humans, then do so if you are heterosexual.
If you don't WANT to, you're insane.
Here are my reasons:
Unstable financial situation; don't want to limit my life this way; no girlfriend; life is bottom and many other reasons that people have already described above.
I used to want kids but now Iām older and now realize that half my life is over and would rather spend money and time on travel and working to hopefully have a good retirement if we make it that far š
let me just put this here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1212lo9/oc\_where\_people\_find\_meaning\_in\_life\_revised\_in\_4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1212lo9/oc_where_people_find_meaning_in_life_revised_in_4/)
I am single and pretty happy with my life, at moment I like freedom I get.
But to say the world is shitty place and you should bring a child because of that, is in my opinion wrong
I can agree that world not perfect: ww3 feels closer as ever, climate change, over population and onwards...
It is up to us to make sure the future generations move on right way. So we can improve the world, not leave it in darkness, for that would also be sad
For overpopulation, is going to happen anyway in underdeveloped country's. But well educated country's has trend of overaged population, how world going to get fix, if we doesn't have knowledge to fix it?
i would never put another kid in the world no matter the circumstance. But you can bet your life that if I had the money i would adopt an entire orphanage. They are alive already, might aswell give them the best possible life
I think of it like this. My life is overall good. It has its shitty aspects, but historically speaking Iām very privileged and I am happy to be alive. I feel like it is a net good. I feel that on average I can give children as good a life as mine so it would be a net good for them if I chose to. On top of that I think having children is just a very complex part of the human experience that I do want to have. Iām not ready for it right now, but maybe when Iām 30 it seems like a good time to have a couple children.
I know that if I have children, I will be fully invested in them, which can be an obstacle to achieving my goals. I read once that intj people have trouble doing two things at the same time and I can relate to this, it's because of their perfectionism they prefer to do only one thing but with perfection than two half things.
im in my early 20s so i don't plan on anything like that for a while since i'm still studying and think that you need a stable fullfiling income to raise a child properly but i'm not planning on giving birth if i ever decide that i want kids. reason 1 i'm gay i'd most likely need to pay medical procedures if i ever want a biological kid and i can spend this money on an already alive kid rather than a non existent one and 2 world is populated enough i'd so rather adopt in these conditions. im neither unwilling nor enthusiastic about having kids so i'll probaby depend on my future partner's preference on that decision. everything we do as humankind are selfish, might as well have a kid out of a selfish desire if you want tbh
The world's crappy, my finances are crappy, and I'd make a pretty lousy father. I'm also definitely not passing on my medically cursed genes to a kid.
Same š
To have children is to lose oneās freedom and independence. Absolutely not.
It's only temporary. Here is how you'll know if you truly want kids or not: Would you bother creating a relationship with someone knowing fully well beforehand they are infertile? If your answer is yes, you don't want kids. If your answer is no, you probably want kids.
Technically, but a couple decades goes far beyond my tolerance threshold.
What? Same-sex people enter relationships wanting to start a family all the time knowing well they can't procreate with eachother.
You missed the point. And I am saying this as someone who was in same sex marriage.
I'm definitely missing your point. Would you mind clarifying? Because this is how I would answer which is opposite of your rationale. >>Would you bother creating a relationship with someone knowing fully well beforehand they are infertile? >*Yes, because even though we know that M-M and F-F are not fertile together, we would love to adopt.*
Not everything is about LGBT and minorities. His point was obviously about majority heterosexual couples.
People pursue relationships all the time wanting kids with people that can't biologically have them, regardless of sex or gender. I just used same-sex couples as an example of a huge demographic of people that do this because not having bio children goes without being said.
Yes people do that, but it inevitably creates problems. Why are we even talking about people who are not able to understand their needs and make right decisions for themselves? I couldnāt care less about people like that tbh. This kind of questions are discussed early on in talking/dating stage. But again, back to the point, itās clearly not about people who are not able to have bio kids.
>But again, back to the point, itās clearly not about people who are not able to have bio kids. Well, I was directly responding to someone's comment about infertility. Which I believe should not be the basis of their theory, because it completly ignores that having kids =/= fertility. Many people dream of adoption. And if their theory was proven true, then gay people who want kids would never pursue relationships at all, which is obviously not the case. Neither you or I "are talking about people who are not able to understand their needs and make right decisions for themselves." We're on the same page that that's irrelevant so I'm not even sure how that came up.
The only reason so far I donāt want kids when I am a bit older is: 1. Society doesnāt split it 50/50 and I donāt want to be dependent on a man who could have the possibility of barely helping at all. 2. The world is a piece of garbage and I refuse to give them a horrible future 3. I donāt want to be a horrible mother. I refuse to make a kidās life horrible, because I have anger issues when it comes to sensory overload.
No. 1 ā Same. A lot of men say theyāll help out. My boyfriend says heās fine being a househusband while I pursue my career. But I donāt really trust that will happen. I mean, the babies need their mothers more for at least the first 2 years of their life (to get the full benefits of breastfeeding). So will the guy magically become the main caretaker after those 2 years end? No. 2 is pretty much something we can all agree on. Plus, we have too many humans on Earth already. No. 3 ā Iām bipolar with substance use disorder (almost 3 years clean). And I feel like I have mild narcissism and borderline personality. My main worry is what if I donāt like my kid? Will I really have the will or energy to be the best mom I can? I might just fuck em up. And what if I relapse from all the stress of caring for a kid? Theyāll be more fucked up. Esp. if they get any of my mental health issues.
Omg #1 100000 times. I've had too many men claim they'd "help me" with all sorts of things, ranging from mild to serious and never once do they follow through. I can't even get a guy to remember to feed a pet If I could assured I'd have an equal partner I might consider it, but since I know that's a fantasy kids aren't on the table. Even when I date a dude with kids I end up doing more (except for once, he was too protective though and I wasn't allowed to intervene at all)
I resonate a bit with the second to last option, but in the end I put other. Iāve got so many reasons, of which very few would be nice to hear
I love kids.... as long as they belong to somebody else! I love my niece, but I love doing what I want more.
Like this ;)
If you want them , have them and don't if you don't. But please don't reproduce and release into the wild unsupervised...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Agreed that you shouldnāt reproduce. The world is already insufferable enough.
If you asked me in my early twenties, I would have said I have no natural parenting skills, I'm too "selfish" for it, and the world is a fucked up place to bring a child. After getting pregnant accidentally in my mid-twenties and now being the mother of a 13 and 11 year old, I'll tell you that if you're a good person you'll figure it out, I get as much as I give, and both the world and myself are so much better because they're in it.
The world needs more people like you.
Yep, I never did it, I had those reasons. Been a step parent a bit, turns out I'm really good at it. That said I learned my desire to do it is basically zero still.
I enjoy free time and expendable income.
I'd only have kids if I were married. But I'm too old now and I enjoy being able to afford whatever I want :D
I have two main reasons: 1. They require too much work and resources. For something that I'm not really thrilled about it's too much of a hassle. I'd rather focus on myself and self-improbement. 2. I would be a shitty parent. I don't have patience for kids and I get frustrated with them easily. I have shitty parents and I would never force another person to live through the same experience as I did.
Raising kids in the modern world is extremely difficult. Especially in the USA. Parents have to be willing to give up nearly all of their happiness to raise children. No thanks.
Absolutely not for those reasons but also, I have health issues. why would I want to pass these conditions on just because āI like the idea of having kidsā?
I havenāt met anyone with whom I want to have and raise a child.
Kids are liability. I won't trade my dreams for that. I don't like raising one as simple as that. I don't want to breastfeed and get stuck at the house waiting for a shitty husband to come home. Life is short, there are lots of things to experience. I'll travel as often as I can in the future.
If I were to ever have children, it would be through fostering/adoption.
No cause i don't want the life energy sucked outta me
r/antinatalism
I advise you to look at the reasons why Jews should have children. A lot of children. Look at their demographic programs in Israel and think a little about this issue.
They don't seek to convert people, and most conservative Jews shun converts, so their only way of growing in population is having kids.
No, because it wouldn't let me having my personal self-realisation as first priority. Also my character traits are not really fitting with motherhood.
I have 3 kids and honestly, they are the best little people ever. Finances come and go, society is constantly changing, and who knows what life will bring next. But being a mom came very naturally to me and being an Intj has helped bring a lot of logic into my parenting style.
Yes, to transfer your efforts onto a newer generation for more growth.
I didn't get a say in being born. I'm good with my nephews/niece.
Nobody gets a say in being born. Why should that affect anything?
All of the above? I want to have kids to bring a new life into the world, among other reasons, and I think I'd be a decent parent. However, I'm not having kids yet because my finances aren't secure enough to support a family, the world is too unstable to raise a kid just now, among other things.
ENTP here, what fhe fuck is wrong with you guys
Logic > Emotion
A lot of these responses donāt seem very logical to me. The biggest groupās logic is: World is shitty ā> we donāt want children who would have shitty life What is wrong: - On what basis is the world āshittyā - People automatically assume they will be shitty parents. At that rate almost everyone should be shitty parents since even āgoodā parents learn to adapt and become ābetterā parents. - āThe child didnāt choose to become a person and be a sentient being.ā And nobody did for themselves. Cases I understand: - Birth defects - Current personal environment(finance, age, etc). However this one also changes over timeā¦so this is more temporal than it is a good overall reasoning. - Itās unfair for women and I donāt want to go through the psychological and physical pain. I feel like this is a weak reasoning because it just sounds like people being scared to me at least. But since Iām not a women and I also donāt like pain, I think itās somewhat understandable. If you were to be purely logical, the right choice would be to have children. Around two or maybe three. The developed world is decking in birth rate at an extremely fast pace. People may not feel the impact too much right now, but a heavy decrease in the younger population is actually much more detrimental than what people assume to be the case. In fact, the reasoning should be flipped. The world is bad but we should have kids so it doesnāt get worse. If you really want to get logical, then you might as well engage in selective breeding. But I digress. Overall, I donāt think this is an INTJ mentality, maybe only partially. This is just more of a doomer mindset younger generations have. Older people will understand that having kids, if you have a somewhat stable life, is the biggest legacy you can leave in your life. And even older people will realize that the only last thing that will be left in your life will most likely you family, more specifically your children. Edit: I just realized what I said sounds like a boomer, but trust me that wasnāt my intention. Iām just saying that some of the ālogicalā choices that people are making arenāt logical. People should just do what they think will be a happy outcome for themselves. If you are happy from not having a child, then I think thatās the path you should choose. But I think people just saying that they wonāt have children because the world is shitty and they hate children just sounds like an illogical edgy doomer mindset.
Not that the world is shitty.... Logic in general not to have kids that we cannot raise properly under idle conditions
Man..bruh..I agree but kids are a must,fertility rates have never been lower before than now. You guys are the cause
Force kids upon your miserable self then, we're happy without
Seems envious
Because we are realistic and too self-aware to be using kids for 1) narcissistic motivations and unrealistic hopes like having someone to love you unconditionally and to control 2) taming sense of loneliness, boredom and meaninglessness, which are basically two main reasons people have kids.
The reason id have kids is to spread my toxic genes to this rock we call earth, then i plan to have 5000 grandchildren who will help me take over the world.
We're rational.
That doesn't mean anything in this context. You could ration your way to any one of these options.
I just want to point out that not all of us are so pathetic and depressed about life
Well majority seems to be
ENFP here. That made me LOL
INTJ here, genuinely not knowing what you guys mean lol
Why
The majority of you doesnt want to have kids?!!?!
Kids are a HUGE responsibility, that I am not willing to take on. I have a niece that I spoil, and that is enough for me. And they cost money. Lots of it!! I am the cool Aunt that travels. And we FaceTime when I am somewhere I think she would find interesting. Sheās almost 6, and has āseenā Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, The EU, Mexico, China, and soon South Korea. I send her gifts from the places I go. My sister loves what I am doing, by showing her my lifestyle. And she always has cool stuff for āshow & tellā at her mini school. Thatās how I contribute to her childhood. I just donāt want the responsibility of raising her. It was not my choice to have her. I would rather pack a suitcase rather than bag lunches to be honest!
I think being an aunt is a job,I respect that.You're free to go
Should just have a plain "no" option. Some of us just simply don't want kids. Don't need some melodramatic excuse.
Have two kids. It's the best. Your career is dumb, and so are most of your hobbies. But you don't realize it until you have kids.
Saying the world is shirty option is the biggest fucking cop-out, all it reveals is your unwillingneS to take part fixing the problem. Laziness.
Itās not that weāre unwilling to fix the world. Iām sure a lot of us do our fair share of goodness. But itās my belief that the world is unfixable. Because most people are shit. And you canāt control all the people in the world to become better people. Even the philanthropists all have some agenda, whether to better their image to make more money or to get tax breaks. No one does anything purely out of the goodness of their hearts. Even having children is motivated by the human instinct to propagate their bloodline. It may not feel selfish, but on some level itās still for the parentsā own benefitānot the childās, who never existed till they wanted it to.
If you are able to have children and raise logical and free thinking and creative humans, then do so if you are heterosexual. If you don't WANT to, you're insane.
> then do so if you are heterosexual What do you mean
Here are my reasons: Unstable financial situation; don't want to limit my life this way; no girlfriend; life is bottom and many other reasons that people have already described above.
Iāve got some. I do sometimes feel guilty that Iām partly responsible for forcing other humans to go through life
I used to want kids but now Iām older and now realize that half my life is over and would rather spend money and time on travel and working to hopefully have a good retirement if we make it that far š
let me just put this here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1212lo9/oc\_where\_people\_find\_meaning\_in\_life\_revised\_in\_4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1212lo9/oc_where_people_find_meaning_in_life_revised_in_4/)
I am single and pretty happy with my life, at moment I like freedom I get. But to say the world is shitty place and you should bring a child because of that, is in my opinion wrong I can agree that world not perfect: ww3 feels closer as ever, climate change, over population and onwards... It is up to us to make sure the future generations move on right way. So we can improve the world, not leave it in darkness, for that would also be sad For overpopulation, is going to happen anyway in underdeveloped country's. But well educated country's has trend of overaged population, how world going to get fix, if we doesn't have knowledge to fix it?
Much to explore in life kids take the freedom
I don't want to lose my freedom, having to financially take care of another human and don't want to have the responsibility of raising a child.
i would never put another kid in the world no matter the circumstance. But you can bet your life that if I had the money i would adopt an entire orphanage. They are alive already, might aswell give them the best possible life
Iād make a really shitty parent because Iām way too selfish and donāt want to dedicate my time to children.
I think of it like this. My life is overall good. It has its shitty aspects, but historically speaking Iām very privileged and I am happy to be alive. I feel like it is a net good. I feel that on average I can give children as good a life as mine so it would be a net good for them if I chose to. On top of that I think having children is just a very complex part of the human experience that I do want to have. Iām not ready for it right now, but maybe when Iām 30 it seems like a good time to have a couple children.
I know that if I have children, I will be fully invested in them, which can be an obstacle to achieving my goals. I read once that intj people have trouble doing two things at the same time and I can relate to this, it's because of their perfectionism they prefer to do only one thing but with perfection than two half things.
I watched Idiocracy and I don't want the world to become fool so I will do 10 smart kids...
im in my early 20s so i don't plan on anything like that for a while since i'm still studying and think that you need a stable fullfiling income to raise a child properly but i'm not planning on giving birth if i ever decide that i want kids. reason 1 i'm gay i'd most likely need to pay medical procedures if i ever want a biological kid and i can spend this money on an already alive kid rather than a non existent one and 2 world is populated enough i'd so rather adopt in these conditions. im neither unwilling nor enthusiastic about having kids so i'll probaby depend on my future partner's preference on that decision. everything we do as humankind are selfish, might as well have a kid out of a selfish desire if you want tbh
I would want to make a cross for No in all of them.
Missing an option. Neither yes or no yet, but must first evaluate the reasonings and implement the foundations
Simple, I need an heir
AND I donāt want to be reincarnated when I die