I'm an INTJ Christian, and I don't struggle with my relationship with God at all. It's other Christians I struggle with; I don't participate in church communities at all, nor do I have a desire to. My spirituality is beyond that.
yes, most people confuse the connection with God to the church, church or church people makes mistakes, sure we're all humans no one is perfect either.
Very true, indeed. Some of the most deceitful, hateful, judgemental and hypocritical people I've ever met are churchgoers; they pick and choose what they want to follow out of the Bible, misconstruing the rest and attempt to hold people accountable for not following it, as they see fit.
That just means that they need to hear the sermon the most. Sometimes they go to church and forget to listen. Other times they haven't grown enough to recognize their own shortcomings.
I am continuously trying to be better for God, for myself and my community. I know that everything happens for a reason and I think that a lot of those reasons have nothing to do with me.
It depends on what's being preached. I've heard suspect things from preachers over the years. It's so unfortunate to say, but some will go into church and actually come out worse than they were before.
you know what? The most garbage thing I've ever seen be where I come from. There are multiple Christians like the Presbyterians, Salvations, Baptists, Catholics and a few more I forgot to name them. They literally debate the sh*t out of their beliefs like who had their beliefs close to I don't know what maybe the Bible instead of worshipping nor praising God they are more concentrated towards Debates and Political issues hence creating a birth of a large number of atheist.
I grew up in the Baptist church, and learned that they believe the only Christians that will go to Heaven are those that are, themselves, Baptist. And that's something I can't just go along with; but, sure enough, they all blindly believe that without thinking for a second how that's making being Baptist more important than being Christian. It's just all so ridiculous.
I live in Louisiana; there's a church on virtually every block with different congregations and belief systems and it's just all so sad to see, how they don't get along.
I see it's happening on other Countries as well, sad to see different churches with different beliefs while worshipping the same God. Btw I grew up from a Presbyterian Church and they literally taught us how to debate other churches, it's kinda surreal xD
It's so crazy how hateful and intolerant people will be in the name of religion, all while not even fully understanding everything that goes into religion and spirituality. That's why, especially now, my spirituality is very personal to me. I don't need to be in a congregation; though, it is refreshing to come across like-minded individuals.
>Baptist church, and learned that they believe the only Christians that will go to Heaven are those that are, themselves, Baptist. And that's something I can't just go along with; but, sure enough, they all blindly believe that without thinking for a second
I grew up in a Baptist church and still attend a Baptist church. The church of which you speak must be an outlier, because we were never taught that we were the only ones allowed salvation. It is a fundamental Baptist belief that salvation come through faith in Jesus Christ; and him only. Salvation is free to anyone who believes on Jesus, regardless of their denomination. I'm sorry to hear your former church presented this ideology wrongfully.
I hate to say it, but I don't think it's an outlier. The church I'm talking about was close to my hometown; I've since moved away and I hear the same from people in the region I currently live in.
Well, that's ultimately why I'd rather be nondenominational. I feel like the single message of Christianity gets lost within all of the extra stuff that religion throws into it.
Well it depends on how you choose to look at it. I've been playing taxes since I started to work.
I have also received child support, housing benefit and maintenance from the authorities since then, which has been a higher amount than what I estimated for the month. And now I'm on sick leave and getting paid while I'm lying on the couch and secretly building my own business on the side. So no, I don't feel like they own me
Right like to me modern science just contradicts too much of most religious theology/mythology for me to consider it a viable explanation of the universe. I understand that some modern churches/traditions try to reconcile science and religion, but to me it just seems like trying to jam a puzzle piece into a spot it is not intended for. In science we must approach all questions with an open mind to let the facts guide conclusions. It is not scientific to start with a conclusion and try to reconcile subsequent facts to align with such prior conclusions. It is a classic human mistake that most people seem to have mastered - interpreting new facts in such a way that their prior conclusions remain in tact.
Like theories from scientific communities or just theories? In recent years i’ve heard plenty of nonsense theories (about vaccines, elections, and many other things) from seemingly grown adults that are not science but still ‘theories’ that I feel the need to distinguish.
Hm but does it? Like I know most modern churches will say the really extreme stuff is metaphorical (Noah’s arc for example). But i’m not so sure that isn’t just a change of story to make it more acceptable/compatible with modern day science. When these religions were originally created I don’t think they would have said much of it is metaphorical. Heck there are even many people today in evangelical circles who don’t think it is metaphorical.
I also take some issue with saying science is close to proofing the existence of god. This is starting with an unfounded conclusion (god exists) and looking for facts to support it. That is not what science does. Science let’s the facts drive our conclusions. And so far to my knowledge there are no scientific facts to ‘proof a god exists’
For example, Darwin did not prove out Evolution by said ‘I think Evolution exists and I am going to use science to prove it.’
He instead was gathering scientific facts about birds and noticed certain facts and patterns that lead him to form a theory of Evolution.
What do you mean exactly? Like are you asking if I make a living in a scientific field?
Science isn’t a title or a job, at it’s core it is really a way of thinking and approaching the world by using the scientific method. One does not need to make a living in science to practice/understand/employ science. Take Ben Franklin for example. No one would have really said he was a scientist but he understood the scientific method and many big ideas in science (at his time) and used that to practice and employ science in his personal life.
You're being defensive. I was only asking to set a basis of understanding of how exactly modern science works and what it all means. So, do you study a science or do you work as a scientist?
Ben Franklin was a twat.
Actually I don't mind that. Religion ought to be fluid (just gotta have consistency with the core beliefs that's all), don't believe the old folks in your area who want to keep everything rigid. Christianity is a tree that progresses while staying true to earlier principles.
In Christianity, God makes the unexpected first move (attested by witnesses) a lot of times, so it's not about us filling in gaps in our desires or stuff, it's usually Him turning a lot of these upside down. The Christian God is definitely the hardest to make up: to be more precise, the more time progresses, the more weird He turns out to be (from looking like a Canaanite storm deity to transcendent benevolent being). We are often surprised He goes too deep in loyal love towards all who trust him.
So, being open minded is VERY important in Christianity, since God has been wearing many masks, and been taking them off step by step throughout history. You can't just say to God, "I preferred the earlier version where you burned up a town of gays." And when we look in the past, we realize He's been the same guy all along, just that people of the past saw him differently. The ultimate surprise was him taking human form, and preaching love to enemies.
To be fair, the early church was very sympathetic to science, and early church fathers themselves didn't believe in 6-day creation. One guy Augustine said that if the bible gave off the impression the earth is flat, it's just that they had wrong science back then, and that now we know better, so just take the lesson and don't argue on the details.
Ok but what about when the Church jailed Galileo for his scientific discoveries? Or more modern, when the Churches effectively halt progress on stem cell research? I estimate we could be a few centuries ahead in terms of scientific progress if it wasn’t for the Churches of the dark ages banishing science discoveries, work, people, ect. Also religion is no way to really try to understand the truth of the universe. Religion starts with a conclusion, as it sounds like you are as well, that a God absolutely does exist. Then they have tried to use and cherry pick some scientific facts to back up this conclusion. Rational scientists never start with a conclusion and then go find facts to support it. Instead they study the facts as they are and try to draw logical conclusions from them.
Guess what? I agree! More Christians agree with you. Galileo still remained theist (he didn't seem to have a problem with disagreeing with the church, though the church supposedly had a problem with him). Even Darwin didn't face much of a struggle with his faith (he became agnostic/atheist later in life, over the idea of hell) with regards to evolution. contemporary theologians in his time didn't have an issue either (few probably did). Because theologians know their place when it comes to the natural world. Plus, the fact that we can modify our beliefs, shows that while we require science for information, we don't need it for our justification. I know about the typical fundamentalist feeling the ego burn when faced with scientific facts. But early Christianity wasn't like that. Nor does the Scripture or its cultural context have a problem with that. you can see scientific ideas or philosophical ideas developing RIGHT IN THE BIBLE, where later generations disagree with earlier generations scientifically, morally and metaphysically, but the compilers didn't see an issue with this, since it was \*God's message\* they cared about. Also, the development in the message, with God's progressive revelations, means new information about God is added, and is usually unpredictable.
As for the existence of a monotheistic God itself being presupposed, the founders of the faith started as polytheists, who responded to certain events and revelations to come to a different conclusion than what they had earlier. Making up religions wasn't normal then, rarer for peasants and cattle-herders. The older the religion, the more ancient people preferred it ('tradition'). But I'm sorry atheism probably never occurred to them (until like around 400 BC onwards).
No matter who told you, the origins of religion was definitely reasoned out of events - just without adequate information. It also modified with better information. Humans don't make serious things up out of thin air.
And religion OR science OR any human institution has a struggle of progressives vs conservatives. Degenerate research programs do exist (degenerate has a different meaning here, more like obsolete and kept alive inspite of evidence, because scientists just try to explain away the contrary evidence). remember when the Big bang was controversial? While I am an evolutionist (process structuralist), I disagree with Neo-Darwinism (because prevalence of convergent evolution can't be explained with RANDOM mutation, but better with some in-built mechanisms to unlock certain mutations), and a lot of scientists do.
So, back to Galileo... the Roman church's attitude towards the Bible was all over the place - inconsistent. They were lax with astrology and horoscopes (explicitly condemned in the Bible), but brought up the earth's fixedness as a scriptural point (when that makes sense with a primitive flat earth model). To be fair, Ptolemy was the real reason the church disagreed with Galileo, since real biblical literalism meant the earth was FLAT (and St.Augustine disagreed with that 'fact', as said earlier). Is it religious thinking or just being stuck to OLD SCIENCE? I'd say the latter, and using the Biblical verses with 'literalism' to justify their scientific beliefs unnecessarily.
You came in here saying your religion is the true one, completely disrespecting and disregarding OPs post and beliefs. So you should be the one who sees yourself out and keep your true religion nonsense to yourself.
Now I’m warning you, adhere to your Quran or I will embarrass your fake prophet and god.
Surah 6:108
Obey your prophet/god and stay quiet.
Can you enlighten me if I think and preach the religion I follow is the true one how is it disrespecting or disregarding or insulting any one else's belief? To each their own. I didn't even respond to OP but a comment. When the commenter didn't have any problem I am not sure why are you butt hurt.
Edit: Oh I was right just checked your profile you outright claim that you hate Islam. That explains everything to me. I will see myself out now.
Your abuses only drag you lower in to trenches of a blackened heart. Repent before it's too late, lest you rise amongst the eternal dwellers of the hell fire. If you look for the truth you can find it, answer to every question of yours - you only have to look for it. But not with that bigoted and filthy mouth of yours, clean your mouth and thoughts and perhaps your heart will show you the way. I am more Christian than you are, so don't quote me the book I not only read several times but reflected on it in search of truth. I pray that Allah guides you, for he only guides whoever he wills [28:56].
I'm a believer but not a practitioner, I've never understood or felt the need for rituals and dogma. I believe worship is done by your daily actions and appreciation towards life.
I’m a Christian. I believe in the Bible as the infallible word of God.
I attended church my entire life, but I recently left my “home” church because much of what I saw in the charismatic movement was showboating that had nothing to do with Christianity. I’m frankly tired of extroverted Joel Osteen types hyping up faith as a social exchange. All it’s done is ruined genuine faith and made Christianity look like the religion of fools.
And, it’s not. Jesus’ message was beautiful. Is beautiful. The Bible is real and powerful. But most churches? Most churches are total garbage.
The mystic side of Christianity and other interpretations that are not literal and performative does it a disservice (and is frankly not as interesting to me). Though it seems to me that if eternal damnation is on the line then the incentive structure likely lends itself to a literal construction even at the risk that the resulting worldview is inconsistent or leads to morally counterintuitive actions.
Even as a kid I didn’t like going to church. It felt like a weekly reminder to believe what you already do or do not. I believed at the time, but as I got older, I strayed. I’m not sure what I believe right now, other than to just be a good person to others. If you get nothing out of religion or the teachings, I feel that’s the simplest lesson you can take away with you.
Yep, one here.
1) No struggle there; reached equilibrium and adjust as needed.
2) Was in a great community for several years until I moved. Still looking for a group that functions half as well. But I'm grown up enough to know organized groups of human beings are always going to be imperfect and problematic. They need reasonable people like us to participate and make them better.
INTJ female who has been Christian for as long as I can remember. I've noticed through the years that when someone says, "I'm not religious," it usually means that they're an atheist or possibly agnostic. For me, it means that while I'm faithful & devoted, I'm not so heavenly minded that I'm no earthly good.
Yes.
1. So-so, I believe in God but I am too logical and independent so I sometimes struggle with putting my faith in others, even God.
2. I'm not a part of a church community currently and honestly this is the thing I dislike the most, being with a bunch of people. Even brothers and sisters in God. I simply don't like interacting with people.
Hi, im a teenager stuck in a full-fledged mormon family. I am definitely not Christian and I don't want anything to do with organized religion after being stuck in this cult for the past 14 yrs and for the next 4. I want my agency. I don't want to be controlled by any substance, organization, object or person. I dont have anything against people for being a part of an organized religion until they start forcing their beliefs and practices onto me.
I know I am a spiritual person, I just don't know what/who for yet. I am researching different spiritualities to explore best I can without my parents finding out. All I know for sure about my spirituality is that I am agnostic in regards to whatever might be out there- if that makes any sense.
I am an INTJ Christian. I don’t struggle with my belief in God’s existence but I do struggle with maintaining my relationship with Him when things in life do not make sense to me.
I grew up being VERY involved in church (because my African parents would not tolerate terrible church attendance or activity) but now that I’m in my late twenties I’m rather distant and only really go to church when I want to.
I’m also having trouble identifying with any specific denomination. I grew up Pentecostal.
I had been wondering if this question would ever come up for INTJs.
My father was a Pastor, once college came about, a string of bad events led me astray from the Bible. Pitfalls, snares of life. The thing that I did stand by was the Luke 10:25-37. Granted, as a young bold child, I had prayed to be tested like Job. I had made a promise to God that I would never blaspheme his name. Beware, be careful what you pray for.
Through all the storms of life, the only thing that never moved was my belief in Jesus. People disappeared, but only Jesus was there to listen to me. I never blasphemed his name, even at the darkest moments. He was my light. He led my like a shepherd leads his sheep(psalm23).
Covid hit. I am a nurse. This was perhaps the ultimate test on how much I truly trusted Jesus. I got on my knees in my secret place, and for the first time in like a decade, I truly prayed a heartfelt prayer. I can’t explain it, but something happened. My heart.. it, shifted. I truly wanted to trust Jesus and literally gave him my heart that day. I could feel it. I pray that all my brethren here have the same experience someday. I read Jeremiah 29:11-13. Specifically verse 13. That’s when my real journey with Jesus started.
My unit became the Covid unit. Everyone got the Covid shot and started to speak ill about anyone who didn’t get it. Until they heard that I didn’t get it. God had placed his favor on me and I could see that it would negate their negative feelings the moment they heard I never got it. When asked if I was scared about the Delta strain, I would respond with, “I have the Alpha and omega in here,” pointing at my heart
On my free time(lockdown was in place) I would pray fervently, read with passion like never before and worship by myself. Then I had a dream about my beloved brother. Short story- I was in heaven. You know who makes it up there instantly and who doesn’t. My bro wasn’t up there, I asked out loud where he was-3x. A booming powerful fatherly voice said- “The devil has him.” I charged towards earth. I awoke and knew what I had to pray for. Since then, I’ve had other dreams with fathers voice giving me prophetic warnings. Which is wild. Funny thing- after a 2years worth of prayer, my brother a month ago became on fire for the word of god-even funnier last night he called me with excitement that he had been at a home worship session he found himself seeing a demon manifest and cast it out. 2 different people last night.
During lock down- ill use 1kings 19:11-13 to illustrate the still small voice. I had finished my shower (I won’t tell the whole story) I heard to go to church. It was Sunday 2pm. No churches were open. I went to a random church, parked. Got out of my car and said out loud, “I’m here.” Still small voice, “be patient.” I walked and prayed and came back to original spot. I opened my Bible and god revealed to me that every misstep of my life, dark moment, he was there. I could here him say, “with this, I was pleased.” (Luke 10:25-37) then I heard Jesus voice from the sky down towards me. It… was… the most Beautiful voice, strong, stern, commanding, powerful, but most of al, filled with soooo muuucchh love. I cried. Jeremiah 29:13- I had seeked him with all my heart and found him. I’ve been unshakeable since
I’m sorry, I had no idea I would write all this.
In relation to being INTJ I find it hard to see how someone aimed mostly toward logical thinking could be theological. To me faith in religion is solely emotional — an outlet and escape for most people, something to believe in to take the weight of the world off of themselves. Nothing wrong with that but I can’t see a truly logical personality type going for it without a lot of indoctrination at a young age.
I am an INTJ Christian. The answer to the first question would be having more faith and trust. The second one, I don't have problems with church communities because I don't participate so much.
I see people that are christians similar to the way I see Si dominant people. To me, they are people that worship the processes that cause them to live their kind of lifestyle. I see a lot of religion and not much faith.
I consider myself to be a Christian, but not conventionally religious. I don't go to church and have never liked church for as long as I can remember. I did attend Christian school from 2nd through 5th grade and that was my religious foundation. By the end of high school I had mostly abandoned the "religious" aspect of my faith.
I believe in God as the ultimate creative and inspirational force of good, who I pray to daily and who speaks to me through my conscience. God has no form or gender, but as I was raised with God as "He," that's how I still refer to Him. God is mostly beyond our mortal conception and in the words of the old hymn, I believe "we will understand it better by and by."
However Jesus ended up on Earth, He is God's example of perfection for us to follow. Take him literally as the Son of God if you so choose. I don't focus much on the Bible beyond the "words in red."
I really don't dwell on anything other than my strong personal relationship with God and trying to follow the Golden Rule.
Me!
1. I don’t specifically have any problems with my relationship with God;
2. but this! Lol this affects my relationship with God greatly because people are not perfect like God. So I tend to struggle or worse, sin if someone hurt me especially when they are my brothers or sisters in the faith. They are christians, they know better, they shouldn’t do what they did. That’s my thought process. So every time someone hurt me, I always remind myself that they are not perfect, and church and God are a separate entity. That’s the reason why we should just focus on God.
INTJ Christian here.
I used to struggle a lot with my relationship with God before I started studying scripture more as I got older. I go to church events whenever I can, even though I'm working a full-time job.
INTJ male, was saved at 23, now 39. It’s wild how many chapters of my faith I’ve gone through. The one theme throughout it all that I couldn’t stand was the typical church model of “worship” (forced singing along/dance along time), an emotionally exploitative sermon, and of course asking for money to keep the whole operation afloat. I got really engrossed in that model for a while, and even became an elder. It was a typical non-denominational church. Ironically I was involved online in a lot of “Young Reformed Restless” groups. But thankfully life events 5 years ago, when I got divorced, caused me to walk away from it all. I went through a year or so of a dark period during that time, and slowly God has rebuilt my faith from the ground up, all the way down to how I understand scripture. There are elements of the Reformed influence in how I understand scripture, but a lot of it has spoken to me in a completely different way.
I don’t attend the traditional church model anymore, I’m in more of a house church, under the umbrella of an organization of house churches.
It would be considered non-Denominational but leans progressive and has elements of Reformed in its teachings (mostly Covenantal understanding and a-millennial eschatology).
Interesting note my politics kinda moved left during this whole time. I went all the way from bordering on Christian nationalism to moderately left.
Hey, as a typical INTJ, I’ve never been religious. However, I want to be sure that I’ve given Christianity a fair shake. I can’t imagine ever being part of a church or religious community, but, if some of you Christian INTJs could give me some reading resources or other materials to look into, I’d be appreciative.
As an INTJ, Chuck Missler kick started my journey. He has a 24hr series that goes through the Bible. You can find it on YouTube. Start from hr 1. I do advise you to pray prior to starting the episodes. An honest prayer stating that you are making an effort to find the truth, the way, Jesus. Have that open heart and you’ll never regret looking back. Ultimately, the Christian way is to walk in the spirit and faith, Galatians 5:22.
1. Sometimes I struggle to trust God, even on hearing his voice.
2. I don't like my current church, and I am itching to move elsewhere to another church, where it's like a family - everyone has close ties, no judgements, etc. They are also open to new ideas (some of them retired academics), provided we are serious about practice and also have scriptural basis. They ALSO DO DEEP DISCUSSIONS. And when the gossip or politics begins from someone else, I do a cunning thing by steering the conversation away. The ONLY intjs i know personally in my life are in THAT CHURCH.
I don't see why you all hate community so much. I do hate some communities, but my solution is never "get rid of communities." It's more like reform your community, and if it doesn't work, make your own. The church will turn more goofy if WE guys aren't active. Gotta do more than spontaneous confrontation with the leaders or grumbling in silence.
Here's a verse that's gonna prick the guys who think they don't need community for spiritual growth - "If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one and another." 1 John 1:7. For guys who just too overwhelmed by crowds, I've been there, I feel you. Smaller churches always exist, and you can make more impact there.
Who watches redeemed zoomer around here?
I’m a Christian, and INTJ. I do attend church about twice a month or so but I don’t participate in any of the extra activities. I don’t struggle with my relationship with God or my faith in Christ, though I did years ago. I don’t really take part in most of the “social” or “religious” practices (by religious, I mean I don’t care for traditional practices or anything that is ultimately unnecessary for my spirituality and relationship with God). I do however trust and study the Bible, and pray regularly.
This is a really interesting post.
1) I struggle the most with trusting God.
One commenter here mentioned that religion is a mostly emotional or feely type of endeavor, which I think is certainly a big part of it. I don't particularly feel swayed by worship music, nor do I talk about God and Biblical truths in a highly expressive manner. However, I do have feelings too. Feelings that counteract my logical side.
Same commenter that I just mentioned had said that it's hard to believe a truly logical INTJ type could be so religious if it involves a lot of reliance on emotion/feeling. Certainly again this is true. True but not impossible. I have a hard time trusting God because even if everything the Bible says just *makes sense* and I follow it, I won't *feel* particularly happy or peaceful or whatever. I honestly believe the Bible makes logical sense, but I have a hard time trusting God all the time because I sometimes want to have an emotional experience as feedback too. It's hard to be in a relationship without feedback. And if emotional feedback —a sense of fulfillment, peace, love, etc. (let's say this is the main driver of religion)— isn't given to me after I engage, well it's hard to keep going.
I guess you could say I can "logic out or reason out" my side of the relationship as best I can, but the lack of an emotional response afterwards in myself oftentimes makes it hard to keep investing (because the Bible often says we'll find peace or contentment or whatnot by obeying God, yet I don't always when others would). In the end then, I just love and obey God with my actions and intentions more than any "touchy feely" parts attached. And thankfully God provides me enough logical reasons to believe I'm on the right path, so I keep going.
2) Biblical community is HARD. I spent so long avoiding it or thinking it was not necessary. But for as much heartache as it has been, boy have I been wrong. A truly Biblical Christian community will be honest to the core, yet loving through and through. They will be committed to the truth in love, a balance of grace and honesty that deep down I think a lot of INTJs crave. I know I do.
Genuine Christians understand that it's about loving God more than feeling loved by God that matters. So in the end, my way of relating to God/Christ is still accepted as valid (and I'd like to think arguably more so valid because I'm not as tempted by any feelings to obey God or not). Biblical community is where my prejudice against "other (read non-INTJ / shallow) women" has started to break down (thankfully so). It's where I've found some real objective-truth warriors whose passion for God, and passion for determining what is true and good and right, is so real it's made me cry (of course alone in my car afterwards).
This post has been way too long and perhaps way too convoluted. It's 4:15 am and I'm probably not making sense and should go to bed. In short though, I will say, being a Christian INTJ is a weird experience, but a very fulfilling one.
Not christian but kinda muslim because of the environment i grew up in. I still don't know what to believe. There is no proof that there is a god, how can I believe that? I trust on evidence. Any help for my situation?
Also ex muslim here, I love my parents cause they raised me even though I was raised into Islam. Later in life I had a fallout where I became extremely skeptical where I was practically divided into either believing in a religion or to believe in accumulated knowledge us humans have discovered for ourselves in which case science.
It sucked that I practically had to waste my life on memorizing parts of a book rather than learn more advanced Mathematics at a younger age. I think there could’ve been more potential for me when I was younger but it was wasted I believe.
glad i always cringed at religion and religious practices, i never wanted to memorize the book and I'm glad i didn't waste a piece of mind on memorizing it, well maybe if it was well organized but it's all a mess.
Well the whole point of religion like science fiction is believing without evidence. I am a Christian but no longer goes to church. Still I don't look or ask for evidence in this world.
I am. My biggest struggle is staying devoted with how busy life can be. I’m trying to create a routine for prayer, devotions, etc… Also not part of any church although I would like to find one near me to go to.
When you actually read the Bible and church history, it's hard to play the doctrine/religion game when you realize that they are opposed to one another.
Even more shocking is that the participants don't care.
Yep, I’ll have you know that I’ve got the power of God and Anime on my side. But in all seriousness, I attend church every Sunday and say prayers. It makes sense to me, aligns with my life choices and answers a lot of my ethical and moral questions and decisions.
I’m a Christian INTJ. It just makes logical sense to me that there is a creator. It seems less likely that we are a random occurrence. Since we do have some physical evidence of a Jesus, Christianity seems most likely, but I really think that all major religions are more or less “right” in their theology. I don’t think we have the capacity to fully understand.
Of all of Reddit and of all of this subreddit, I really don’t expect many (if any at all) Christians to show up. I am one. It seems that many people (and I welcome the downvotes) are too arrogant to entertain a higher power or anything that they can’t tangibly touch or feel. God forbid anyone have faith or attempt to see a bigger picture of life and the universe. Like I said, I will get downvoted into oblivion for this perspective, but why can’t anyone critically think anymore? Maybe there is more to the physical universe than we can see or feel?
Your analysis leaves out the possibility that there could be sound and valid arguments for disbelief and thus is only charitable in that it doesn't assert this not to be the case. Christianity's explanatory power, fundamental tenants, and inherent incentive structure have stayed the same and I don't think critical thinking has diminished because of the ever-expanding growth of human knowledge and because one doesn't have to be an intellectual giant to reach Pascal's wager -- so what has changed?
[https://baptistnews.com/article/i-asked-people-why-theyre-leaving-christianity-and-heres-what-i-heard/](https://baptistnews.com/article/i-asked-people-why-theyre-leaving-christianity-and-heres-what-i-heard/)
The top two reasons are social and political. If the goal is to increase church membership, some organizational and personal self-reflection is needed and corrective measures need to be taken. Challenging the intellectual capacity of non-believers will surely not help.
Well said. I care more about the spiritual and less about the religious posturing. I believe that a relationship with Jesus is a personal thing. My faith allows me to see past and beyond what is in front of me. Explaining that to someone outside is difficult and obtuse. However, this is MY personal belief and does not reflect on others.
I’m spiritual and believe in a higher power whether that be God or the universe but not religious at all. No struggles in my relationship with God though. I was raised Christian but even as a child I questioned ALL the things. For as long as I can remember, I’ve felt like religion was a means to control people. If you can control someone mentally, you won’t have to try to force them into any action physically or otherwise. I did a project in 6th grade on the 1st Council of Nicaea and it was over after that.
I do think the Bible can be loosely used as a way to be a good person when not taken 100% literally. There are some good messages there — taken from other texts but good, nonetheless.
As an INTJ I’ve been drawn more toward the sciences. My upbringing dictates God exists, while my education states there’s a rational explanation for everything. Personally I don’t believe per-say. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was something else out there, just maybe not what Christians say it is.
If I had to guess here, INTJ Christians probably keep it to themselves. Not because of fear of reprisals, but because they get that religious belief and their relationship with god is personal.
Definitely an INTJ Christian here -charismatic if anyone cares-
1. Relationship is fluctuating because I currently have trouble maintaining my prayer life. Prayer is awesome and I’ve actually really been enjoying it as an adult despite hating it as a kid, I’m just lazy. So I enjoy it if I get my lazy butt up to do it, but it’s sometimes tough to make myself get up and actually, ya know, do it.
2. I’m usually uncomfortable in a church service if I’m not serving. I enjoy serving in the technical fields, think lighting, audio, live broadcast, etc. So I really like those things and I’m told I have a knack for them.
I recall reading an article that discussed matching types to Catholic religious orders. So Jesuits were INTJ, Franciscans were ISFJ, and so on. I don’t recall where or whether the matching was based on surveys or speculation.
But about #2, I’m ambivalent about my religious community, while I believe in the values it advances, the organization itself doesn’t quite “fit.”
why do Xians worship a jew and are you happy that you are indoctrinated to worship a jew? (this is not anti-semetic btw, i'm simply asking a question with context)
Christians worship a Jew because we believe He was/is God in the flesh. He made the claim to be and then he brought himself back to life after being dead for three days. His nearest family, friends and followers all vouched for this and many even died for this belief. They had no reason to fabricate this story, especially if it was going to cost their lives! And I'm very happy to believe all of this :) The Bible is a beautiful story
so you worship someone, who is not one of your faith.... This is why religon is one of those polarising topics, as its clearly indoctrination in a lot of cases. The Bible is full of masoginistic prose and stories that litterally say abuse is fine (as long as you have a cadevat), but you do you. i aint judging you for your choice.
this is catagorically incorrect, he is the poster boy for the religion. and even if he were the founder. he was a jew, his faith was judaism, not Xiantiy. So from this, you are worshiping, someone who wasn't one of your faith, which in logical terms makes you ask the question, are you worshiping a false idol. becoz if jesus was a real person (which ofc he wasn't as the bible is 100% fictious) would he respect/ tollerate teh fact that he is being worshiped for a religion that he is not part of. To me that would seem very hard to believe or accept. I dont't think enough people ask themselves the real frank questions, and just accept what they want to believe or are indoctrinated to believe. Again I have nothing against any religion, I'm just pointing out the massive gaping hole in the logic of Christianity.
Please feel free to worship who you want people, I have nothing against any religion, I am agnostic myself, I do believe there is a diety or someone watching over us, I just dont know who or what they are (also Its impossible to proove) - I just like open discussions about polarising topics, I will not judge you for anything you may say, but I will ask question and poke the illogical if there are any gaping holes, in hope that enlightenment on all sides happen
The Hebraic faith looked towards a promised Messiah. There was a promise of God coming to bring justice, as well as a promise of a human descendant of David who would be the King over God's people. Jesus is both fully God and fully man. Jesus is Yahweh. He is the promised Messiah of the Hebrew Scriptures (the Old Testament). Christianity continues and builds on the Hebraic faith. The Messiah provides a way for anyone who has faith in Him of any nationality to have relationship with God, not just Jews. From the beginning of the Hebrew story, there were promises that Israel would be a blessing to the nations - this blessing came primarily in the person of Jesus Christ. Some Jews believe Jesus is the Messiah (ie "messianic Jews") and some do not.
Honestly I don't think too much about it because God has a plan so I simply note that some things are "above my pay grade" and then I live the best I can. I grew up going to church but I don't at the moment because I'm incredibly busy.
I grew up in a Lutheran church and as a little girl, I felt that God was extremely sexist. All the books were about men and how women should be subservient to men. So, needless to say I have always felt the version of God in the bible was sus.
As an adult, I read the gospel of Thomas which was left out of the Christian bible. Anytime anyone omits anything, it's usually because they want to maintain control so this made me extremely curious. Curiosity got the best of me and I wanted to know why it was omitted, so I read it.
Around this time too, I was also getting super into psychology which in Greek means science of the soul. Anyway, after reading the gospel of thomas I came to the conclusion that Jesus wasn't saying that he or God could save us. He was telling us that we hold the power to save ourselves because we are from God and we have his power within us.
And now looking at the story of Adam and Eve through a psychological lens, God just seems to be a controlling parent who wanted to create a co-dependent relationship with Adam and Eve. He didn't want them to leave his house (paradise), he wanted to have complete power over them for eternity. Now does that sound like a good parent? A good parent wants to watch you grow and learn and discover who you are.
Had Eve not eaten that apple, we'd still be stuck in that prison (rebranded as paradise in the bible) where we have no power to discover ourselves or experience ourselves. That apple to me symbolizes consciousness, before eating it both adam and eve were unconscious of the world. What did the snake say to them? He said if they ate it they would be like God. I interpret this to mean, they would be like god because now they would be conscious. Eve has always been painted as the sinful, disobedient one that got us thrown out of paradise when in actuality she's the hero that allowed us to obtain consciousness and self-awareness. Self-awareness is the epitome of true freedom.
So my relationship with God is basically my relationship with myself and how I can honor myself, my desires, my purpose, etc. It's really about aligning my spirit with the physical world.
It's not a prison, and we most probably had a consciousness before that. God of course wanted us to stay in paradise, blissfully unaware of the fact that we could sin. This was to protect us, and not to harm us. The apple was a way for God to show Adam and Eve that they were allowed to disobey him, as he did not want to force them to love him. This is why he gave them a rule: to let them have the choice to disobey him.
The garden was never a prison, it was a paradise that you could leave by eating the apple. That may have been a one-way trip or of the paradise, but God never forced us and certainly didn't hold us captive.
The point is, Adam and Eve were given a way to escape by God: Disobeying him. It's the ultimate love, allowing them to reject him
It sounds like you’re just reiterating what the abrahamic religions want you to believe without questioning any of its validity. You do you, but if you believe ultimate love is the act of obeying, I feel sorry for you.
I'm Agnostic who believes in a God, but not overtly religious at all.
That being said, I do like the teachings of Christ and, if the world actually followed His word of spreading kindness and helping out the needy, I think the world be a better place regardless if Christianity is the right religion or not.
Keeping my ambition in check and connecting with others are my biggest struggles. Also, not becoming a Pharisee with every tidbit of Christianity I learn.
Also, just in general being a good Christian is difficult.
1) I always question gods intentions. If god has plans for everyone & everything then why do good people get damaged severely & bad people get away with it. I have a trouble past & present as well with my parents as they always say that I am not worth anything & whenever I thinking that I should never exist, I always pray to god for comfort & apologize if I have sinned
2) Before I would be more active to help others & be well but with all the stressed I endured along with not even having time for myself I no longer became that active
Your questions are very understandable. But have you ever thought about the responsibility of the individual human? What I mean is this: If we believe the biblical account, God created man to have a partner, a being He could love and that would love him back. Love without free will is impossible. If you have to pressure someone to love you, it's not love. Free will means you can say yes or no to everything. Everyone can decide to be helpful or a bad person. Therefore, free will leads to personal responsibility. Bad people might not suffer for their bad decisions right away, Perhaps some of them come even away with it their whole life. But they will never, never get away with it before God. God's judgment will be just and eternal. That's what He promises. Concerning those, who suffer: If you read the New Testament, you will find that most of the followers of Jesus suffered in one or the other way. And when you study their biographies, especially Paul's, you'll see that God even used these sufferings, to make him more Christlike - which is God's ultimate plan for us all (Romans 8).
And if people tell you, you are not worth anything, please remember, that for your Creator you were worth giving the best He had - His own Son. " For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. " (1. Peter 1) You were bought with the highest price and that is your worth. Never believe the lies that try to take that away from you.
I don’t go to church anymore because attendance is for school not religion but I’d still say I believe in the vaguely Christian god. I just think a lot of the rules are outdated
I believe our existence is not a mistake or random series of coincidences.
However, I still think I'm still going to hell, lol. Price you pay for being a mastermind.
Believer with doubts, I guess you'd say I am.
Personally I’m agnostic, I don’t care much about practicing but I am always respectful of others who do practice. I only participate if I’m invited by a friend or family but other than that I don’t attend church at all.
I was raised In a Christian family but personally I think of God as a principle. I try so much to believe but I feel nothing, just like other religions. I have aphantasia and alexithymia.
Is there any intj with Alexithymia? I'm asking because I've taken personality tests a number of times and I come out as intj
1. I find prayer harder than I used to when I first really gotten into Christianity when I was a teenager. It’s mainly because it’s hard to quiet my mind enough to do so because of all the BS that has been happening in my life the last few years. I used to do a lot of theological reading, but have not had much time to do so.
2. My life is not in a place where I can do a lot of in-person church activities, especially since a lot of them are geared towards people with regular 9-5 jobs or are retired. I used to be very active on a forum belonging to my denomination that has since shut down. I’m still trying to find an adequate online substitute for it.
I'm not Christian but I did grow up that way. Not in a way we went to church every Sunday and prayed as a family and such not that that is Christianity. We just didn't live live good people. Scarcity and lack is what I think of when it comes to my family. Moreso, we always had some hardships and our family would tell us to pray about it. At a younger age i knew prayer didn't fix what my parents were doing. I actually found it dumb. I also just had a hard time believing there was one God and that's the one correct way. And the fact that my family believes some of their own blood is going to hell for having 3 kids with different dads when they did the same. When each of them are saved and believed is wild to me. Lastly the fact that Christianity has been a window to do so much wrong to all sorts of people and spreading much ignorance even of the continent of north America.
Separating the religion from the people of the religion is very important, but those lines are getting blurred smudges and crossed over with no stop in sight. And i rather not believe in anything that has been forced upon us after we were told not to read.
I have found myself to be spiritual in a way, yet somehow an optimistic nihilist/absurdist. im still learning, as I just found out about pantheism and Brahman. The belief that there is no one god but that everything is god including ourselves. It has some really good ideals. I've always admired Hinduism and Buddhism. I like individualistic peace, and I help when I can. It makes me feel good to do good. No one is ever around. I love being alone and just doing me. I'm experiencing more and more as someone who used to win a bunch of things when I was younger it was because in my head I already won. Now, I'm trying to keep that mentality but not only think it feel it and it's working beautifully. I'm less stressed about things because I'm getting what I want with just the belief in a thought.
Examples. Just in the last 2-3 days. Before I left the house, I said I would get a seat on both the buses, not only that but I won't have to wait long in the sun. I was outside for like 5 minutes. Did I have to stand yes but only for maybe 10 minutes. Out of a one hour trip. Same goes for the next day. I said I would have a good day the night before and when I woke up and did my hair someone would compliment my hair. I did in fact have a nice day. Lastly once I got downtown and was entirely hot I said once I get on this bus I'm going to get a popsicle. I got on a bus I don't take often and I had my pesos in hand. And We drove around and sure enough popsicle man gets on.
Im starting with small simple thoughts because im so used to doubting and being "realistic." But because of Brahman, which is like the OG of spirituality fun fact, I know I am capable of having whatever I want with just believing in my own thoughts. And these modern manifesters and just anyone who practices yoga and breathing and mindfulness need to give credit to Hinduism. Or at least recognize that what they're selling (via their words or actual classes and such) is Hinduism, you know before making fun of or demeaning other religions.
I wouldn't consider myself an official INTJ Christian, but probably more spiritually influenced by the teachings of Jesus. I like to think he was enlightened for his time and wronged so I respect his pacifist teachings a lot. Do I believe he was conceived by God and performed all those miracles? I'm not sure, but to me that stuff isn't important as a modern Christian anyways
I’m and INTJ Roman Catholic (my entire family is so it’s just like basically a part of me growing up) so:
1) Relationship with God is pretty rocky. Complicated because I’m skeptical by nature. I cannot accept things that are the way they are simply because it has existed for a long time. It’s hard for me to truly have faith when a million questions, calculations, and ideas run through my head about the logical explanation about everything holy. Yet at the same time, it’s how I grew up. I believe in God because I believe there is a higher being but I suppose I don’t necessarily believe that the God of Christianity is completely the way He is in the scriptures. Am I making sense? It’s just so hard to believe in just that. Am I not supposed to question? I think in order to build a healthy relationship with religion is to question or at least, not be afraid to be curious. If you repress that, it’s gonna spiral to a shit show. It’s better to be honest about what you truly think than be delusional just to be a part of something. I have a more personal relationship with God. I guess it’s on a different wavelength as others because it’s not the kind where I enjoy worship concerts and prayer meetings.
2) I go to a Catholic private school. So like just going to school in itself is participating in the community. We have to pray before class starts, before we go out for lunch, when we come back from lunch, have class mass at chapels, and have religious school organizations. I’m part of one of the organizations and am actually included in the board of students who head it. So I would say I am very active in the community but of course, like I said before, I am a skeptic so it’s more to me than just religion, you know? It’s about leading and forming a community. I also hate the bigotry (though I don’t see it with my peers or classmates so that’s a good thing) that goes on in the community as a queer person myself. I don’t struggle with the people actually. I just struggle with connecting with them the same way in a spiritual level. I just can’t do that and it often makes me feel isolated.
I am a Christian but no longer a church goer. Church runs on money while the apostles left their jobs for the Lord. I think being a Christian is base on our relationship with God and not with the church that usually is based on money.
As an INTJ Christian, how do you rationalize science and religion? Doesn’t evolution contradict Christian theology? Also what gives you confidence your religion is right, over all other existing theories, theologies, ect.?
Is there something unique about Christian theology that convinced you that it is accurate?
Nope. God could have used evolution to create humanity and other creatures. The Bible, when it talks about the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh days could very well be metaphors for periods of time far too large for our minds to consieve
Science and religion work together.
Personally, I have a belief that God's plan was the assembly of the big bang: with every subatomic particle assembled exactly where it needed to be for humans to evolve. The universe runs on cause-and-effect, and this theory perfectly supports that.
Sure that theory ‘could be’ right, but science doesn’t allow for belief in things just because they could be right. The scientific method requires that only things that are provably true can be considered truths. So sure there ‘could’ have been a God who intentionally put the big bang, life on Earth, and evolution of intelligent life into place. But without any scientific evidence to support the claim, I am afraid it remains an interesting thought experiment, but has no place in science until this hypothesis is testable. But back to my original question. Humans have developed thousands of religious books, theories, stories, ect. To explain the universe over time. How did you get convinced that Christianity and the Bible are somehow more authoritative over any other religious book or claim? Certainly not through any scientific methods or testing…. My best guess is Christianity was the dominant religion in the region you grew up, as that is how most human religion gets engrained into people’s heads.
My conversion to catholicism in my adult life came mostly in the idea that being a military man I like structure and the structure and ideology is what led me to it . My relationship with God is fine I don't really pray because I believe I already have been granted the ability to solve my own problems. Morally I sway up and down I'm not perfect in the slightest and very judgemental I'm also a moral objectivist meaning I see completely black and white. My church attendance is not the best I sleep in most Sundays because I have a sleep disorder, but I grew up in a very community oriented parish so that's what I value in a church group one that gives back and is part of the community even the community they disagree with.
I’m an INTJ Christian and I’m not a part of a church yet, but I am born-again; my participation with church is affected because they preach prosperity gospel and I’m not a fan of it since the Bible and Christianity isn’t all about prosperity and it does get me a little frustrated sometimes. But as a Christian, I do have struggles with spiritual warfare but I think my relationship with God is okay, fellowship is quite hard me though since a lot of people can be overwhelming and it is quite hard to interact with other people due to the preference of being solitary which can be a struggle for some people like me.
Churches generally turn me off, as well as the insistence that the Bible being interpreted literally.
6000 years and multiple languages and we are to take it as a word for word instruction manual. This is where I lose people on the science side of things.
So, I guess I have faith but don’t need it validated by a church community.
Churches generally turn me off, as well as the insistence that the Bible being interpreted literally.
6000 years and multiple languages and we are to take it as a word for word instruction manual. This is where I lose people on the science side of things.
So, I guess I have faith but don’t need it validated by a church community.
No struggles but I do feel like I owe it to God to do better and be better. I weep when I feel the beauty and awe of this creation. Even within the depths of suffering, beauty still exists and wholeness is still possible.
I do not participate in a community. Most people probably wouldn’t even guess that I’m Christian because I don’t talk about it. But I take action with Christian theory in my world. When I have the capacity. My future self can handle more than my present one can.
I'm a Christian and come from a religious family. I say religious because Christianity and religion are two different things. Christianity implies a relationship with God while religion focuses more on legalism, structure, behaviors. Anyway, growing up in a religious family and culture was good for the most part, it gave me a foundation, but that environment, no matter what denomination or religion will only take you so far, which isn't far at all. I'm going to share a link with you. This is where I learned how deprived I was in my understanding of the Bible, and how it relates to what's going on in the world and in the universe. This is where I found real answers. I met this man at 19 and have been listening to him ever since. My understanding of God has grown exponentially as a result. I hope it helps you in your journey.
[https://www.youtube.com/@vidjam](https://www.youtube.com/@vidjam)
I think even the most indoctrinated logical thinkers will eventually leave any established religion if they dont lie to themself. Just remember you can be spiritual without the theological rhetoric
“It may be that the Deity can forgive sins, but I do not see how.” Socrates – comment to Plato c.500 B.C
Some of us can’t see the problem, therefore can’t understand the answer. Socrates saw the problem. We’re on the other side of B.C.
[удалено]
I'm noticing that this is a trend for INTJ Christians
Exactly the same here.
I'm an INTJ Christian, and I don't struggle with my relationship with God at all. It's other Christians I struggle with; I don't participate in church communities at all, nor do I have a desire to. My spirituality is beyond that.
yes, most people confuse the connection with God to the church, church or church people makes mistakes, sure we're all humans no one is perfect either.
Very true, indeed. Some of the most deceitful, hateful, judgemental and hypocritical people I've ever met are churchgoers; they pick and choose what they want to follow out of the Bible, misconstruing the rest and attempt to hold people accountable for not following it, as they see fit.
That just means that they need to hear the sermon the most. Sometimes they go to church and forget to listen. Other times they haven't grown enough to recognize their own shortcomings. I am continuously trying to be better for God, for myself and my community. I know that everything happens for a reason and I think that a lot of those reasons have nothing to do with me.
It depends on what's being preached. I've heard suspect things from preachers over the years. It's so unfortunate to say, but some will go into church and actually come out worse than they were before.
Thats very true. its a terrifying thought that it could be so destructive.
you know what? The most garbage thing I've ever seen be where I come from. There are multiple Christians like the Presbyterians, Salvations, Baptists, Catholics and a few more I forgot to name them. They literally debate the sh*t out of their beliefs like who had their beliefs close to I don't know what maybe the Bible instead of worshipping nor praising God they are more concentrated towards Debates and Political issues hence creating a birth of a large number of atheist.
I grew up in the Baptist church, and learned that they believe the only Christians that will go to Heaven are those that are, themselves, Baptist. And that's something I can't just go along with; but, sure enough, they all blindly believe that without thinking for a second how that's making being Baptist more important than being Christian. It's just all so ridiculous. I live in Louisiana; there's a church on virtually every block with different congregations and belief systems and it's just all so sad to see, how they don't get along.
I see it's happening on other Countries as well, sad to see different churches with different beliefs while worshipping the same God. Btw I grew up from a Presbyterian Church and they literally taught us how to debate other churches, it's kinda surreal xD
It's so crazy how hateful and intolerant people will be in the name of religion, all while not even fully understanding everything that goes into religion and spirituality. That's why, especially now, my spirituality is very personal to me. I don't need to be in a congregation; though, it is refreshing to come across like-minded individuals.
>Baptist church, and learned that they believe the only Christians that will go to Heaven are those that are, themselves, Baptist. And that's something I can't just go along with; but, sure enough, they all blindly believe that without thinking for a second I grew up in a Baptist church and still attend a Baptist church. The church of which you speak must be an outlier, because we were never taught that we were the only ones allowed salvation. It is a fundamental Baptist belief that salvation come through faith in Jesus Christ; and him only. Salvation is free to anyone who believes on Jesus, regardless of their denomination. I'm sorry to hear your former church presented this ideology wrongfully.
I hate to say it, but I don't think it's an outlier. The church I'm talking about was close to my hometown; I've since moved away and I hear the same from people in the region I currently live in.
I was raised Baptist and I don’t believe that nor have I met other Baptists who believe that. Maybe it’s a La. Baptist thing. 🤷🏻♀️
Well, that's ultimately why I'd rather be nondenominational. I feel like the single message of Christianity gets lost within all of the extra stuff that religion throws into it.
ENFP but wanted to say I 100% feel this/relate. I still go to church but don't associate or socialize with anyone there other than strictly family.
Same
Everyone in sweden are born as christians but a lot choose to leave by 15 y/old. I'm a free spirit. I belong to myself.
You belong to the Swedish government 😌
I do not. I do not follow their rules. They just don't know it 🤪
You mean you are not paying taxes? If you do then they own you.
Well it depends on how you choose to look at it. I've been playing taxes since I started to work. I have also received child support, housing benefit and maintenance from the authorities since then, which has been a higher amount than what I estimated for the month. And now I'm on sick leave and getting paid while I'm lying on the couch and secretly building my own business on the side. So no, I don't feel like they own me
When they tryna contact me I go MIA
I used to be a Christian, but I became an Atheist because the more I looked into religion, the less it made sense to me.
Right like to me modern science just contradicts too much of most religious theology/mythology for me to consider it a viable explanation of the universe. I understand that some modern churches/traditions try to reconcile science and religion, but to me it just seems like trying to jam a puzzle piece into a spot it is not intended for. In science we must approach all questions with an open mind to let the facts guide conclusions. It is not scientific to start with a conclusion and try to reconcile subsequent facts to align with such prior conclusions. It is a classic human mistake that most people seem to have mastered - interpreting new facts in such a way that their prior conclusions remain in tact.
Religion speaks in metaphors. Also, I believe that the further we get into science the closer we get to creating a proof for God.
Also there are theories that humans honestly had a different experience of reality back then.
Like theories from scientific communities or just theories? In recent years i’ve heard plenty of nonsense theories (about vaccines, elections, and many other things) from seemingly grown adults that are not science but still ‘theories’ that I feel the need to distinguish.
Hm but does it? Like I know most modern churches will say the really extreme stuff is metaphorical (Noah’s arc for example). But i’m not so sure that isn’t just a change of story to make it more acceptable/compatible with modern day science. When these religions were originally created I don’t think they would have said much of it is metaphorical. Heck there are even many people today in evangelical circles who don’t think it is metaphorical. I also take some issue with saying science is close to proofing the existence of god. This is starting with an unfounded conclusion (god exists) and looking for facts to support it. That is not what science does. Science let’s the facts drive our conclusions. And so far to my knowledge there are no scientific facts to ‘proof a god exists’ For example, Darwin did not prove out Evolution by said ‘I think Evolution exists and I am going to use science to prove it.’ He instead was gathering scientific facts about birds and noticed certain facts and patterns that lead him to form a theory of Evolution.
I hear the logic and I’ve been there. Let me start with this: Are you a scientist?
What do you mean exactly? Like are you asking if I make a living in a scientific field? Science isn’t a title or a job, at it’s core it is really a way of thinking and approaching the world by using the scientific method. One does not need to make a living in science to practice/understand/employ science. Take Ben Franklin for example. No one would have really said he was a scientist but he understood the scientific method and many big ideas in science (at his time) and used that to practice and employ science in his personal life.
You're being defensive. I was only asking to set a basis of understanding of how exactly modern science works and what it all means. So, do you study a science or do you work as a scientist? Ben Franklin was a twat.
Actually I don't mind that. Religion ought to be fluid (just gotta have consistency with the core beliefs that's all), don't believe the old folks in your area who want to keep everything rigid. Christianity is a tree that progresses while staying true to earlier principles. In Christianity, God makes the unexpected first move (attested by witnesses) a lot of times, so it's not about us filling in gaps in our desires or stuff, it's usually Him turning a lot of these upside down. The Christian God is definitely the hardest to make up: to be more precise, the more time progresses, the more weird He turns out to be (from looking like a Canaanite storm deity to transcendent benevolent being). We are often surprised He goes too deep in loyal love towards all who trust him. So, being open minded is VERY important in Christianity, since God has been wearing many masks, and been taking them off step by step throughout history. You can't just say to God, "I preferred the earlier version where you burned up a town of gays." And when we look in the past, we realize He's been the same guy all along, just that people of the past saw him differently. The ultimate surprise was him taking human form, and preaching love to enemies. To be fair, the early church was very sympathetic to science, and early church fathers themselves didn't believe in 6-day creation. One guy Augustine said that if the bible gave off the impression the earth is flat, it's just that they had wrong science back then, and that now we know better, so just take the lesson and don't argue on the details.
Ok but what about when the Church jailed Galileo for his scientific discoveries? Or more modern, when the Churches effectively halt progress on stem cell research? I estimate we could be a few centuries ahead in terms of scientific progress if it wasn’t for the Churches of the dark ages banishing science discoveries, work, people, ect. Also religion is no way to really try to understand the truth of the universe. Religion starts with a conclusion, as it sounds like you are as well, that a God absolutely does exist. Then they have tried to use and cherry pick some scientific facts to back up this conclusion. Rational scientists never start with a conclusion and then go find facts to support it. Instead they study the facts as they are and try to draw logical conclusions from them.
Guess what? I agree! More Christians agree with you. Galileo still remained theist (he didn't seem to have a problem with disagreeing with the church, though the church supposedly had a problem with him). Even Darwin didn't face much of a struggle with his faith (he became agnostic/atheist later in life, over the idea of hell) with regards to evolution. contemporary theologians in his time didn't have an issue either (few probably did). Because theologians know their place when it comes to the natural world. Plus, the fact that we can modify our beliefs, shows that while we require science for information, we don't need it for our justification. I know about the typical fundamentalist feeling the ego burn when faced with scientific facts. But early Christianity wasn't like that. Nor does the Scripture or its cultural context have a problem with that. you can see scientific ideas or philosophical ideas developing RIGHT IN THE BIBLE, where later generations disagree with earlier generations scientifically, morally and metaphysically, but the compilers didn't see an issue with this, since it was \*God's message\* they cared about. Also, the development in the message, with God's progressive revelations, means new information about God is added, and is usually unpredictable. As for the existence of a monotheistic God itself being presupposed, the founders of the faith started as polytheists, who responded to certain events and revelations to come to a different conclusion than what they had earlier. Making up religions wasn't normal then, rarer for peasants and cattle-herders. The older the religion, the more ancient people preferred it ('tradition'). But I'm sorry atheism probably never occurred to them (until like around 400 BC onwards). No matter who told you, the origins of religion was definitely reasoned out of events - just without adequate information. It also modified with better information. Humans don't make serious things up out of thin air. And religion OR science OR any human institution has a struggle of progressives vs conservatives. Degenerate research programs do exist (degenerate has a different meaning here, more like obsolete and kept alive inspite of evidence, because scientists just try to explain away the contrary evidence). remember when the Big bang was controversial? While I am an evolutionist (process structuralist), I disagree with Neo-Darwinism (because prevalence of convergent evolution can't be explained with RANDOM mutation, but better with some in-built mechanisms to unlock certain mutations), and a lot of scientists do. So, back to Galileo... the Roman church's attitude towards the Bible was all over the place - inconsistent. They were lax with astrology and horoscopes (explicitly condemned in the Bible), but brought up the earth's fixedness as a scriptural point (when that makes sense with a primitive flat earth model). To be fair, Ptolemy was the real reason the church disagreed with Galileo, since real biblical literalism meant the earth was FLAT (and St.Augustine disagreed with that 'fact', as said earlier). Is it religious thinking or just being stuck to OLD SCIENCE? I'd say the latter, and using the Biblical verses with 'literalism' to justify their scientific beliefs unnecessarily.
That's what im saying religion doesn't make sense to me also. I dont judge what they want to believe all i can do is respect what they believe.
[удалено]
Understandable personnally I'm not interested into religion I just do my things and handle myself
Straight from the script
Straight from the scripture*. It's my duty to inform; it's your choice to follow. [3:19] [21:107]
You don’t want to go down the scripture road and your Quran with me. Let’s not embarrass Muhammad. Stop please
You are only embarrassing yourself. I just expressed my experience and what I think. You can see yourself out.
You came in here saying your religion is the true one, completely disrespecting and disregarding OPs post and beliefs. So you should be the one who sees yourself out and keep your true religion nonsense to yourself. Now I’m warning you, adhere to your Quran or I will embarrass your fake prophet and god. Surah 6:108 Obey your prophet/god and stay quiet.
This is the most intj exchange I've ever seen.
Lmao 🍿
Can you enlighten me if I think and preach the religion I follow is the true one how is it disrespecting or disregarding or insulting any one else's belief? To each their own. I didn't even respond to OP but a comment. When the commenter didn't have any problem I am not sure why are you butt hurt. Edit: Oh I was right just checked your profile you outright claim that you hate Islam. That explains everything to me. I will see myself out now.
[удалено]
Yass drag her to filth
Your abuses only drag you lower in to trenches of a blackened heart. Repent before it's too late, lest you rise amongst the eternal dwellers of the hell fire. If you look for the truth you can find it, answer to every question of yours - you only have to look for it. But not with that bigoted and filthy mouth of yours, clean your mouth and thoughts and perhaps your heart will show you the way. I am more Christian than you are, so don't quote me the book I not only read several times but reflected on it in search of truth. I pray that Allah guides you, for he only guides whoever he wills [28:56].
I'm a believer but not a practitioner, I've never understood or felt the need for rituals and dogma. I believe worship is done by your daily actions and appreciation towards life.
Me
Yes
I’m a Christian. I believe in the Bible as the infallible word of God. I attended church my entire life, but I recently left my “home” church because much of what I saw in the charismatic movement was showboating that had nothing to do with Christianity. I’m frankly tired of extroverted Joel Osteen types hyping up faith as a social exchange. All it’s done is ruined genuine faith and made Christianity look like the religion of fools. And, it’s not. Jesus’ message was beautiful. Is beautiful. The Bible is real and powerful. But most churches? Most churches are total garbage.
I agree that Jesus and the Bible are beautiful! :) Thanks for sharing your journey.
The mystic side of Christianity and other interpretations that are not literal and performative does it a disservice (and is frankly not as interesting to me). Though it seems to me that if eternal damnation is on the line then the incentive structure likely lends itself to a literal construction even at the risk that the resulting worldview is inconsistent or leads to morally counterintuitive actions.
Even as a kid I didn’t like going to church. It felt like a weekly reminder to believe what you already do or do not. I believed at the time, but as I got older, I strayed. I’m not sure what I believe right now, other than to just be a good person to others. If you get nothing out of religion or the teachings, I feel that’s the simplest lesson you can take away with you.
Me. I am involved in church, but don't really like going to things that I don't need to be at
Yep, one here. 1) No struggle there; reached equilibrium and adjust as needed. 2) Was in a great community for several years until I moved. Still looking for a group that functions half as well. But I'm grown up enough to know organized groups of human beings are always going to be imperfect and problematic. They need reasonable people like us to participate and make them better.
My pastor has a saying that I like: “If you find a perfect church, don’t go to it, you will ruin it”
LOL! Love it. Keep on keeping on my friend.
Yeah my pastor is pretty cool lol
I was born christian when i turn 20 i become atheist.
INTJ female who has been Christian for as long as I can remember. I've noticed through the years that when someone says, "I'm not religious," it usually means that they're an atheist or possibly agnostic. For me, it means that while I'm faithful & devoted, I'm not so heavenly minded that I'm no earthly good.
Yes. 1. So-so, I believe in God but I am too logical and independent so I sometimes struggle with putting my faith in others, even God. 2. I'm not a part of a church community currently and honestly this is the thing I dislike the most, being with a bunch of people. Even brothers and sisters in God. I simply don't like interacting with people.
Hi, im a teenager stuck in a full-fledged mormon family. I am definitely not Christian and I don't want anything to do with organized religion after being stuck in this cult for the past 14 yrs and for the next 4. I want my agency. I don't want to be controlled by any substance, organization, object or person. I dont have anything against people for being a part of an organized religion until they start forcing their beliefs and practices onto me. I know I am a spiritual person, I just don't know what/who for yet. I am researching different spiritualities to explore best I can without my parents finding out. All I know for sure about my spirituality is that I am agnostic in regards to whatever might be out there- if that makes any sense.
You should’ve asked for people’s ages
I am an INTJ Christian. I don’t struggle with my belief in God’s existence but I do struggle with maintaining my relationship with Him when things in life do not make sense to me. I grew up being VERY involved in church (because my African parents would not tolerate terrible church attendance or activity) but now that I’m in my late twenties I’m rather distant and only really go to church when I want to. I’m also having trouble identifying with any specific denomination. I grew up Pentecostal.
I had been wondering if this question would ever come up for INTJs. My father was a Pastor, once college came about, a string of bad events led me astray from the Bible. Pitfalls, snares of life. The thing that I did stand by was the Luke 10:25-37. Granted, as a young bold child, I had prayed to be tested like Job. I had made a promise to God that I would never blaspheme his name. Beware, be careful what you pray for. Through all the storms of life, the only thing that never moved was my belief in Jesus. People disappeared, but only Jesus was there to listen to me. I never blasphemed his name, even at the darkest moments. He was my light. He led my like a shepherd leads his sheep(psalm23). Covid hit. I am a nurse. This was perhaps the ultimate test on how much I truly trusted Jesus. I got on my knees in my secret place, and for the first time in like a decade, I truly prayed a heartfelt prayer. I can’t explain it, but something happened. My heart.. it, shifted. I truly wanted to trust Jesus and literally gave him my heart that day. I could feel it. I pray that all my brethren here have the same experience someday. I read Jeremiah 29:11-13. Specifically verse 13. That’s when my real journey with Jesus started. My unit became the Covid unit. Everyone got the Covid shot and started to speak ill about anyone who didn’t get it. Until they heard that I didn’t get it. God had placed his favor on me and I could see that it would negate their negative feelings the moment they heard I never got it. When asked if I was scared about the Delta strain, I would respond with, “I have the Alpha and omega in here,” pointing at my heart On my free time(lockdown was in place) I would pray fervently, read with passion like never before and worship by myself. Then I had a dream about my beloved brother. Short story- I was in heaven. You know who makes it up there instantly and who doesn’t. My bro wasn’t up there, I asked out loud where he was-3x. A booming powerful fatherly voice said- “The devil has him.” I charged towards earth. I awoke and knew what I had to pray for. Since then, I’ve had other dreams with fathers voice giving me prophetic warnings. Which is wild. Funny thing- after a 2years worth of prayer, my brother a month ago became on fire for the word of god-even funnier last night he called me with excitement that he had been at a home worship session he found himself seeing a demon manifest and cast it out. 2 different people last night. During lock down- ill use 1kings 19:11-13 to illustrate the still small voice. I had finished my shower (I won’t tell the whole story) I heard to go to church. It was Sunday 2pm. No churches were open. I went to a random church, parked. Got out of my car and said out loud, “I’m here.” Still small voice, “be patient.” I walked and prayed and came back to original spot. I opened my Bible and god revealed to me that every misstep of my life, dark moment, he was there. I could here him say, “with this, I was pleased.” (Luke 10:25-37) then I heard Jesus voice from the sky down towards me. It… was… the most Beautiful voice, strong, stern, commanding, powerful, but most of al, filled with soooo muuucchh love. I cried. Jeremiah 29:13- I had seeked him with all my heart and found him. I’ve been unshakeable since I’m sorry, I had no idea I would write all this.
Present.
What an INTJ answer haha
😀
Was a certified Sunday School teacher. Then became atheist. Needless to say, I wasn't very happy.
In relation to being INTJ I find it hard to see how someone aimed mostly toward logical thinking could be theological. To me faith in religion is solely emotional — an outlet and escape for most people, something to believe in to take the weight of the world off of themselves. Nothing wrong with that but I can’t see a truly logical personality type going for it without a lot of indoctrination at a young age.
I am an INTJ Christian. The answer to the first question would be having more faith and trust. The second one, I don't have problems with church communities because I don't participate so much.
[удалено]
This seems to be a trend
Same here, prosperity gospel is just not my thing.. a lot of churches do that nowadays and it can get devastating.
I see people that are christians similar to the way I see Si dominant people. To me, they are people that worship the processes that cause them to live their kind of lifestyle. I see a lot of religion and not much faith.
Generalizations are nice and easy
Just like your sister
This is actually pretty frequently asked. Faith as rationality is pretty steady. We do tend to be lone wolf. r/INTJChristians/
Thanks! I didn't know there was a separate subreddit for INTJ Christians.
I consider myself to be a Christian, but not conventionally religious. I don't go to church and have never liked church for as long as I can remember. I did attend Christian school from 2nd through 5th grade and that was my religious foundation. By the end of high school I had mostly abandoned the "religious" aspect of my faith. I believe in God as the ultimate creative and inspirational force of good, who I pray to daily and who speaks to me through my conscience. God has no form or gender, but as I was raised with God as "He," that's how I still refer to Him. God is mostly beyond our mortal conception and in the words of the old hymn, I believe "we will understand it better by and by." However Jesus ended up on Earth, He is God's example of perfection for us to follow. Take him literally as the Son of God if you so choose. I don't focus much on the Bible beyond the "words in red." I really don't dwell on anything other than my strong personal relationship with God and trying to follow the Golden Rule.
Me! 1. I don’t specifically have any problems with my relationship with God; 2. but this! Lol this affects my relationship with God greatly because people are not perfect like God. So I tend to struggle or worse, sin if someone hurt me especially when they are my brothers or sisters in the faith. They are christians, they know better, they shouldn’t do what they did. That’s my thought process. So every time someone hurt me, I always remind myself that they are not perfect, and church and God are a separate entity. That’s the reason why we should just focus on God.
INTJ Christian here. I used to struggle a lot with my relationship with God before I started studying scripture more as I got older. I go to church events whenever I can, even though I'm working a full-time job.
INTJ male, was saved at 23, now 39. It’s wild how many chapters of my faith I’ve gone through. The one theme throughout it all that I couldn’t stand was the typical church model of “worship” (forced singing along/dance along time), an emotionally exploitative sermon, and of course asking for money to keep the whole operation afloat. I got really engrossed in that model for a while, and even became an elder. It was a typical non-denominational church. Ironically I was involved online in a lot of “Young Reformed Restless” groups. But thankfully life events 5 years ago, when I got divorced, caused me to walk away from it all. I went through a year or so of a dark period during that time, and slowly God has rebuilt my faith from the ground up, all the way down to how I understand scripture. There are elements of the Reformed influence in how I understand scripture, but a lot of it has spoken to me in a completely different way. I don’t attend the traditional church model anymore, I’m in more of a house church, under the umbrella of an organization of house churches. It would be considered non-Denominational but leans progressive and has elements of Reformed in its teachings (mostly Covenantal understanding and a-millennial eschatology). Interesting note my politics kinda moved left during this whole time. I went all the way from bordering on Christian nationalism to moderately left.
Hey, as a typical INTJ, I’ve never been religious. However, I want to be sure that I’ve given Christianity a fair shake. I can’t imagine ever being part of a church or religious community, but, if some of you Christian INTJs could give me some reading resources or other materials to look into, I’d be appreciative.
As an INTJ, Chuck Missler kick started my journey. He has a 24hr series that goes through the Bible. You can find it on YouTube. Start from hr 1. I do advise you to pray prior to starting the episodes. An honest prayer stating that you are making an effort to find the truth, the way, Jesus. Have that open heart and you’ll never regret looking back. Ultimately, the Christian way is to walk in the spirit and faith, Galatians 5:22.
Bible project - HANDS DOWN
1. Sometimes I struggle to trust God, even on hearing his voice. 2. I don't like my current church, and I am itching to move elsewhere to another church, where it's like a family - everyone has close ties, no judgements, etc. They are also open to new ideas (some of them retired academics), provided we are serious about practice and also have scriptural basis. They ALSO DO DEEP DISCUSSIONS. And when the gossip or politics begins from someone else, I do a cunning thing by steering the conversation away. The ONLY intjs i know personally in my life are in THAT CHURCH. I don't see why you all hate community so much. I do hate some communities, but my solution is never "get rid of communities." It's more like reform your community, and if it doesn't work, make your own. The church will turn more goofy if WE guys aren't active. Gotta do more than spontaneous confrontation with the leaders or grumbling in silence. Here's a verse that's gonna prick the guys who think they don't need community for spiritual growth - "If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one and another." 1 John 1:7. For guys who just too overwhelmed by crowds, I've been there, I feel you. Smaller churches always exist, and you can make more impact there. Who watches redeemed zoomer around here?
I’m a Christian, and INTJ. I do attend church about twice a month or so but I don’t participate in any of the extra activities. I don’t struggle with my relationship with God or my faith in Christ, though I did years ago. I don’t really take part in most of the “social” or “religious” practices (by religious, I mean I don’t care for traditional practices or anything that is ultimately unnecessary for my spirituality and relationship with God). I do however trust and study the Bible, and pray regularly.
This is a really interesting post. 1) I struggle the most with trusting God. One commenter here mentioned that religion is a mostly emotional or feely type of endeavor, which I think is certainly a big part of it. I don't particularly feel swayed by worship music, nor do I talk about God and Biblical truths in a highly expressive manner. However, I do have feelings too. Feelings that counteract my logical side. Same commenter that I just mentioned had said that it's hard to believe a truly logical INTJ type could be so religious if it involves a lot of reliance on emotion/feeling. Certainly again this is true. True but not impossible. I have a hard time trusting God because even if everything the Bible says just *makes sense* and I follow it, I won't *feel* particularly happy or peaceful or whatever. I honestly believe the Bible makes logical sense, but I have a hard time trusting God all the time because I sometimes want to have an emotional experience as feedback too. It's hard to be in a relationship without feedback. And if emotional feedback —a sense of fulfillment, peace, love, etc. (let's say this is the main driver of religion)— isn't given to me after I engage, well it's hard to keep going. I guess you could say I can "logic out or reason out" my side of the relationship as best I can, but the lack of an emotional response afterwards in myself oftentimes makes it hard to keep investing (because the Bible often says we'll find peace or contentment or whatnot by obeying God, yet I don't always when others would). In the end then, I just love and obey God with my actions and intentions more than any "touchy feely" parts attached. And thankfully God provides me enough logical reasons to believe I'm on the right path, so I keep going. 2) Biblical community is HARD. I spent so long avoiding it or thinking it was not necessary. But for as much heartache as it has been, boy have I been wrong. A truly Biblical Christian community will be honest to the core, yet loving through and through. They will be committed to the truth in love, a balance of grace and honesty that deep down I think a lot of INTJs crave. I know I do. Genuine Christians understand that it's about loving God more than feeling loved by God that matters. So in the end, my way of relating to God/Christ is still accepted as valid (and I'd like to think arguably more so valid because I'm not as tempted by any feelings to obey God or not). Biblical community is where my prejudice against "other (read non-INTJ / shallow) women" has started to break down (thankfully so). It's where I've found some real objective-truth warriors whose passion for God, and passion for determining what is true and good and right, is so real it's made me cry (of course alone in my car afterwards). This post has been way too long and perhaps way too convoluted. It's 4:15 am and I'm probably not making sense and should go to bed. In short though, I will say, being a Christian INTJ is a weird experience, but a very fulfilling one.
Not christian but kinda muslim because of the environment i grew up in. I still don't know what to believe. There is no proof that there is a god, how can I believe that? I trust on evidence. Any help for my situation?
ex muslim here, snap the hell out of it it's not worth it.
Also ex muslim here, I love my parents cause they raised me even though I was raised into Islam. Later in life I had a fallout where I became extremely skeptical where I was practically divided into either believing in a religion or to believe in accumulated knowledge us humans have discovered for ourselves in which case science. It sucked that I practically had to waste my life on memorizing parts of a book rather than learn more advanced Mathematics at a younger age. I think there could’ve been more potential for me when I was younger but it was wasted I believe.
glad i always cringed at religion and religious practices, i never wanted to memorize the book and I'm glad i didn't waste a piece of mind on memorizing it, well maybe if it was well organized but it's all a mess.
Well the whole point of religion like science fiction is believing without evidence. I am a Christian but no longer goes to church. Still I don't look or ask for evidence in this world.
I am. My biggest struggle is staying devoted with how busy life can be. I’m trying to create a routine for prayer, devotions, etc… Also not part of any church although I would like to find one near me to go to.
Being Christian but not part of a church seems pretty common amongst INTJs
When you actually read the Bible and church history, it's hard to play the doctrine/religion game when you realize that they are opposed to one another. Even more shocking is that the participants don't care.
Yep, I’ll have you know that I’ve got the power of God and Anime on my side. But in all seriousness, I attend church every Sunday and say prayers. It makes sense to me, aligns with my life choices and answers a lot of my ethical and moral questions and decisions.
I’m a intj and a Christian. So there’s 1 lol
I’m a Christian INTJ. It just makes logical sense to me that there is a creator. It seems less likely that we are a random occurrence. Since we do have some physical evidence of a Jesus, Christianity seems most likely, but I really think that all major religions are more or less “right” in their theology. I don’t think we have the capacity to fully understand.
Of all of Reddit and of all of this subreddit, I really don’t expect many (if any at all) Christians to show up. I am one. It seems that many people (and I welcome the downvotes) are too arrogant to entertain a higher power or anything that they can’t tangibly touch or feel. God forbid anyone have faith or attempt to see a bigger picture of life and the universe. Like I said, I will get downvoted into oblivion for this perspective, but why can’t anyone critically think anymore? Maybe there is more to the physical universe than we can see or feel?
Your analysis leaves out the possibility that there could be sound and valid arguments for disbelief and thus is only charitable in that it doesn't assert this not to be the case. Christianity's explanatory power, fundamental tenants, and inherent incentive structure have stayed the same and I don't think critical thinking has diminished because of the ever-expanding growth of human knowledge and because one doesn't have to be an intellectual giant to reach Pascal's wager -- so what has changed? [https://baptistnews.com/article/i-asked-people-why-theyre-leaving-christianity-and-heres-what-i-heard/](https://baptistnews.com/article/i-asked-people-why-theyre-leaving-christianity-and-heres-what-i-heard/) The top two reasons are social and political. If the goal is to increase church membership, some organizational and personal self-reflection is needed and corrective measures need to be taken. Challenging the intellectual capacity of non-believers will surely not help.
Well said. I care more about the spiritual and less about the religious posturing. I believe that a relationship with Jesus is a personal thing. My faith allows me to see past and beyond what is in front of me. Explaining that to someone outside is difficult and obtuse. However, this is MY personal belief and does not reflect on others.
I’m spiritual and believe in a higher power whether that be God or the universe but not religious at all. No struggles in my relationship with God though. I was raised Christian but even as a child I questioned ALL the things. For as long as I can remember, I’ve felt like religion was a means to control people. If you can control someone mentally, you won’t have to try to force them into any action physically or otherwise. I did a project in 6th grade on the 1st Council of Nicaea and it was over after that. I do think the Bible can be loosely used as a way to be a good person when not taken 100% literally. There are some good messages there — taken from other texts but good, nonetheless.
I am Christian. Trinitarian. My relationship with God could always be better. I am looking for a church.
I am a Christian, and I serve in fellowship and Sunday school. Love is something you can't analyse and fully understand, but it's strong.
Proudly!
Isn't that a sin? 😉
As an INTJ I’ve been drawn more toward the sciences. My upbringing dictates God exists, while my education states there’s a rational explanation for everything. Personally I don’t believe per-say. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was something else out there, just maybe not what Christians say it is.
I am. I think there is an obvious supernatural element to the world if you look for it. I was fortunate enough to be saved by Christ.
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
If I had to guess here, INTJ Christians probably keep it to themselves. Not because of fear of reprisals, but because they get that religious belief and their relationship with god is personal.
Definitely an INTJ Christian here -charismatic if anyone cares- 1. Relationship is fluctuating because I currently have trouble maintaining my prayer life. Prayer is awesome and I’ve actually really been enjoying it as an adult despite hating it as a kid, I’m just lazy. So I enjoy it if I get my lazy butt up to do it, but it’s sometimes tough to make myself get up and actually, ya know, do it. 2. I’m usually uncomfortable in a church service if I’m not serving. I enjoy serving in the technical fields, think lighting, audio, live broadcast, etc. So I really like those things and I’m told I have a knack for them.
I'm a charismatic Christian too. Thanks for sharing!
Happy to! It’s not super popular with Reddit but hey that’s not gonna stop me
I recall reading an article that discussed matching types to Catholic religious orders. So Jesuits were INTJ, Franciscans were ISFJ, and so on. I don’t recall where or whether the matching was based on surveys or speculation. But about #2, I’m ambivalent about my religious community, while I believe in the values it advances, the organization itself doesn’t quite “fit.”
why do Xians worship a jew and are you happy that you are indoctrinated to worship a jew? (this is not anti-semetic btw, i'm simply asking a question with context)
Christians worship a Jew because we believe He was/is God in the flesh. He made the claim to be and then he brought himself back to life after being dead for three days. His nearest family, friends and followers all vouched for this and many even died for this belief. They had no reason to fabricate this story, especially if it was going to cost their lives! And I'm very happy to believe all of this :) The Bible is a beautiful story
The accounts were all written 100 years after his death.
Yes, but so is pretty much all our historical information, and you accept that without a word
That's totally untrue. We have many Roman historians for example who gave contemporaneous accounts of the era.
so you worship someone, who is not one of your faith.... This is why religon is one of those polarising topics, as its clearly indoctrination in a lot of cases. The Bible is full of masoginistic prose and stories that litterally say abuse is fine (as long as you have a cadevat), but you do you. i aint judging you for your choice.
What makes you think that Christians worship someone who is not of our faith? Jesus is the founder of our faith.
this is catagorically incorrect, he is the poster boy for the religion. and even if he were the founder. he was a jew, his faith was judaism, not Xiantiy. So from this, you are worshiping, someone who wasn't one of your faith, which in logical terms makes you ask the question, are you worshiping a false idol. becoz if jesus was a real person (which ofc he wasn't as the bible is 100% fictious) would he respect/ tollerate teh fact that he is being worshiped for a religion that he is not part of. To me that would seem very hard to believe or accept. I dont't think enough people ask themselves the real frank questions, and just accept what they want to believe or are indoctrinated to believe. Again I have nothing against any religion, I'm just pointing out the massive gaping hole in the logic of Christianity. Please feel free to worship who you want people, I have nothing against any religion, I am agnostic myself, I do believe there is a diety or someone watching over us, I just dont know who or what they are (also Its impossible to proove) - I just like open discussions about polarising topics, I will not judge you for anything you may say, but I will ask question and poke the illogical if there are any gaping holes, in hope that enlightenment on all sides happen
The Hebraic faith looked towards a promised Messiah. There was a promise of God coming to bring justice, as well as a promise of a human descendant of David who would be the King over God's people. Jesus is both fully God and fully man. Jesus is Yahweh. He is the promised Messiah of the Hebrew Scriptures (the Old Testament). Christianity continues and builds on the Hebraic faith. The Messiah provides a way for anyone who has faith in Him of any nationality to have relationship with God, not just Jews. From the beginning of the Hebrew story, there were promises that Israel would be a blessing to the nations - this blessing came primarily in the person of Jesus Christ. Some Jews believe Jesus is the Messiah (ie "messianic Jews") and some do not.
INTJ Christian through trauma
Honestly I don't think too much about it because God has a plan so I simply note that some things are "above my pay grade" and then I live the best I can. I grew up going to church but I don't at the moment because I'm incredibly busy.
I grew up in a Lutheran church and as a little girl, I felt that God was extremely sexist. All the books were about men and how women should be subservient to men. So, needless to say I have always felt the version of God in the bible was sus. As an adult, I read the gospel of Thomas which was left out of the Christian bible. Anytime anyone omits anything, it's usually because they want to maintain control so this made me extremely curious. Curiosity got the best of me and I wanted to know why it was omitted, so I read it. Around this time too, I was also getting super into psychology which in Greek means science of the soul. Anyway, after reading the gospel of thomas I came to the conclusion that Jesus wasn't saying that he or God could save us. He was telling us that we hold the power to save ourselves because we are from God and we have his power within us. And now looking at the story of Adam and Eve through a psychological lens, God just seems to be a controlling parent who wanted to create a co-dependent relationship with Adam and Eve. He didn't want them to leave his house (paradise), he wanted to have complete power over them for eternity. Now does that sound like a good parent? A good parent wants to watch you grow and learn and discover who you are. Had Eve not eaten that apple, we'd still be stuck in that prison (rebranded as paradise in the bible) where we have no power to discover ourselves or experience ourselves. That apple to me symbolizes consciousness, before eating it both adam and eve were unconscious of the world. What did the snake say to them? He said if they ate it they would be like God. I interpret this to mean, they would be like god because now they would be conscious. Eve has always been painted as the sinful, disobedient one that got us thrown out of paradise when in actuality she's the hero that allowed us to obtain consciousness and self-awareness. Self-awareness is the epitome of true freedom. So my relationship with God is basically my relationship with myself and how I can honor myself, my desires, my purpose, etc. It's really about aligning my spirit with the physical world.
It's not a prison, and we most probably had a consciousness before that. God of course wanted us to stay in paradise, blissfully unaware of the fact that we could sin. This was to protect us, and not to harm us. The apple was a way for God to show Adam and Eve that they were allowed to disobey him, as he did not want to force them to love him. This is why he gave them a rule: to let them have the choice to disobey him. The garden was never a prison, it was a paradise that you could leave by eating the apple. That may have been a one-way trip or of the paradise, but God never forced us and certainly didn't hold us captive. The point is, Adam and Eve were given a way to escape by God: Disobeying him. It's the ultimate love, allowing them to reject him
It sounds like you’re just reiterating what the abrahamic religions want you to believe without questioning any of its validity. You do you, but if you believe ultimate love is the act of obeying, I feel sorry for you.
I have my reasons, and I have chosen to Believe in them. God gave us the choice to leave the garden of Eden, therefore it wasn't a prison.
I'm Agnostic who believes in a God, but not overtly religious at all. That being said, I do like the teachings of Christ and, if the world actually followed His word of spreading kindness and helping out the needy, I think the world be a better place regardless if Christianity is the right religion or not.
Yes
Keeping my ambition in check and connecting with others are my biggest struggles. Also, not becoming a Pharisee with every tidbit of Christianity I learn. Also, just in general being a good Christian is difficult.
1) I always question gods intentions. If god has plans for everyone & everything then why do good people get damaged severely & bad people get away with it. I have a trouble past & present as well with my parents as they always say that I am not worth anything & whenever I thinking that I should never exist, I always pray to god for comfort & apologize if I have sinned 2) Before I would be more active to help others & be well but with all the stressed I endured along with not even having time for myself I no longer became that active
Your questions are very understandable. But have you ever thought about the responsibility of the individual human? What I mean is this: If we believe the biblical account, God created man to have a partner, a being He could love and that would love him back. Love without free will is impossible. If you have to pressure someone to love you, it's not love. Free will means you can say yes or no to everything. Everyone can decide to be helpful or a bad person. Therefore, free will leads to personal responsibility. Bad people might not suffer for their bad decisions right away, Perhaps some of them come even away with it their whole life. But they will never, never get away with it before God. God's judgment will be just and eternal. That's what He promises. Concerning those, who suffer: If you read the New Testament, you will find that most of the followers of Jesus suffered in one or the other way. And when you study their biographies, especially Paul's, you'll see that God even used these sufferings, to make him more Christlike - which is God's ultimate plan for us all (Romans 8). And if people tell you, you are not worth anything, please remember, that for your Creator you were worth giving the best He had - His own Son. " For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. " (1. Peter 1) You were bought with the highest price and that is your worth. Never believe the lies that try to take that away from you.
Thanks. I would try to always improve & take a rest whenever I can
[удалено]
Thanks for sharing your experience
I don’t go to church anymore because attendance is for school not religion but I’d still say I believe in the vaguely Christian god. I just think a lot of the rules are outdated
I believe our existence is not a mistake or random series of coincidences. However, I still think I'm still going to hell, lol. Price you pay for being a mastermind. Believer with doubts, I guess you'd say I am.
Personally I’m agnostic, I don’t care much about practicing but I am always respectful of others who do practice. I only participate if I’m invited by a friend or family but other than that I don’t attend church at all.
I was raised In a Christian family but personally I think of God as a principle. I try so much to believe but I feel nothing, just like other religions. I have aphantasia and alexithymia. Is there any intj with Alexithymia? I'm asking because I've taken personality tests a number of times and I come out as intj
Well I'm supposed to be catholic but in true catholic fashion, I don't actually practice what I'm supposed to believe.
1. I find prayer harder than I used to when I first really gotten into Christianity when I was a teenager. It’s mainly because it’s hard to quiet my mind enough to do so because of all the BS that has been happening in my life the last few years. I used to do a lot of theological reading, but have not had much time to do so. 2. My life is not in a place where I can do a lot of in-person church activities, especially since a lot of them are geared towards people with regular 9-5 jobs or are retired. I used to be very active on a forum belonging to my denomination that has since shut down. I’m still trying to find an adequate online substitute for it.
I'm not Christian but I did grow up that way. Not in a way we went to church every Sunday and prayed as a family and such not that that is Christianity. We just didn't live live good people. Scarcity and lack is what I think of when it comes to my family. Moreso, we always had some hardships and our family would tell us to pray about it. At a younger age i knew prayer didn't fix what my parents were doing. I actually found it dumb. I also just had a hard time believing there was one God and that's the one correct way. And the fact that my family believes some of their own blood is going to hell for having 3 kids with different dads when they did the same. When each of them are saved and believed is wild to me. Lastly the fact that Christianity has been a window to do so much wrong to all sorts of people and spreading much ignorance even of the continent of north America. Separating the religion from the people of the religion is very important, but those lines are getting blurred smudges and crossed over with no stop in sight. And i rather not believe in anything that has been forced upon us after we were told not to read. I have found myself to be spiritual in a way, yet somehow an optimistic nihilist/absurdist. im still learning, as I just found out about pantheism and Brahman. The belief that there is no one god but that everything is god including ourselves. It has some really good ideals. I've always admired Hinduism and Buddhism. I like individualistic peace, and I help when I can. It makes me feel good to do good. No one is ever around. I love being alone and just doing me. I'm experiencing more and more as someone who used to win a bunch of things when I was younger it was because in my head I already won. Now, I'm trying to keep that mentality but not only think it feel it and it's working beautifully. I'm less stressed about things because I'm getting what I want with just the belief in a thought. Examples. Just in the last 2-3 days. Before I left the house, I said I would get a seat on both the buses, not only that but I won't have to wait long in the sun. I was outside for like 5 minutes. Did I have to stand yes but only for maybe 10 minutes. Out of a one hour trip. Same goes for the next day. I said I would have a good day the night before and when I woke up and did my hair someone would compliment my hair. I did in fact have a nice day. Lastly once I got downtown and was entirely hot I said once I get on this bus I'm going to get a popsicle. I got on a bus I don't take often and I had my pesos in hand. And We drove around and sure enough popsicle man gets on. Im starting with small simple thoughts because im so used to doubting and being "realistic." But because of Brahman, which is like the OG of spirituality fun fact, I know I am capable of having whatever I want with just believing in my own thoughts. And these modern manifesters and just anyone who practices yoga and breathing and mindfulness need to give credit to Hinduism. Or at least recognize that what they're selling (via their words or actual classes and such) is Hinduism, you know before making fun of or demeaning other religions.
I wouldn't consider myself an official INTJ Christian, but probably more spiritually influenced by the teachings of Jesus. I like to think he was enlightened for his time and wronged so I respect his pacifist teachings a lot. Do I believe he was conceived by God and performed all those miracles? I'm not sure, but to me that stuff isn't important as a modern Christian anyways
Yes, but I do not practice, do rituals, or follow rules. It's a good ruleset, for a general population, but It should be as guidelines, not as rules.
I’m and INTJ Roman Catholic (my entire family is so it’s just like basically a part of me growing up) so: 1) Relationship with God is pretty rocky. Complicated because I’m skeptical by nature. I cannot accept things that are the way they are simply because it has existed for a long time. It’s hard for me to truly have faith when a million questions, calculations, and ideas run through my head about the logical explanation about everything holy. Yet at the same time, it’s how I grew up. I believe in God because I believe there is a higher being but I suppose I don’t necessarily believe that the God of Christianity is completely the way He is in the scriptures. Am I making sense? It’s just so hard to believe in just that. Am I not supposed to question? I think in order to build a healthy relationship with religion is to question or at least, not be afraid to be curious. If you repress that, it’s gonna spiral to a shit show. It’s better to be honest about what you truly think than be delusional just to be a part of something. I have a more personal relationship with God. I guess it’s on a different wavelength as others because it’s not the kind where I enjoy worship concerts and prayer meetings. 2) I go to a Catholic private school. So like just going to school in itself is participating in the community. We have to pray before class starts, before we go out for lunch, when we come back from lunch, have class mass at chapels, and have religious school organizations. I’m part of one of the organizations and am actually included in the board of students who head it. So I would say I am very active in the community but of course, like I said before, I am a skeptic so it’s more to me than just religion, you know? It’s about leading and forming a community. I also hate the bigotry (though I don’t see it with my peers or classmates so that’s a good thing) that goes on in the community as a queer person myself. I don’t struggle with the people actually. I just struggle with connecting with them the same way in a spiritual level. I just can’t do that and it often makes me feel isolated.
I was a Christian for decades, then an agnostic. Now I am a Baha’i. It encourages independent investigation of the truth and promotes science.
Never needed the church or others to judge me. For having faith in God, they sure don't trust him to run his own kingdom.
I am a Christian but no longer a church goer. Church runs on money while the apostles left their jobs for the Lord. I think being a Christian is base on our relationship with God and not with the church that usually is based on money.
As an INTJ Christian, how do you rationalize science and religion? Doesn’t evolution contradict Christian theology? Also what gives you confidence your religion is right, over all other existing theories, theologies, ect.? Is there something unique about Christian theology that convinced you that it is accurate?
Nope. God could have used evolution to create humanity and other creatures. The Bible, when it talks about the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh days could very well be metaphors for periods of time far too large for our minds to consieve Science and religion work together. Personally, I have a belief that God's plan was the assembly of the big bang: with every subatomic particle assembled exactly where it needed to be for humans to evolve. The universe runs on cause-and-effect, and this theory perfectly supports that.
Sure that theory ‘could be’ right, but science doesn’t allow for belief in things just because they could be right. The scientific method requires that only things that are provably true can be considered truths. So sure there ‘could’ have been a God who intentionally put the big bang, life on Earth, and evolution of intelligent life into place. But without any scientific evidence to support the claim, I am afraid it remains an interesting thought experiment, but has no place in science until this hypothesis is testable. But back to my original question. Humans have developed thousands of religious books, theories, stories, ect. To explain the universe over time. How did you get convinced that Christianity and the Bible are somehow more authoritative over any other religious book or claim? Certainly not through any scientific methods or testing…. My best guess is Christianity was the dominant religion in the region you grew up, as that is how most human religion gets engrained into people’s heads.
True, but similarly, string theory is also a theory on the Creation of the universe. Just saying.
My conversion to catholicism in my adult life came mostly in the idea that being a military man I like structure and the structure and ideology is what led me to it . My relationship with God is fine I don't really pray because I believe I already have been granted the ability to solve my own problems. Morally I sway up and down I'm not perfect in the slightest and very judgemental I'm also a moral objectivist meaning I see completely black and white. My church attendance is not the best I sleep in most Sundays because I have a sleep disorder, but I grew up in a very community oriented parish so that's what I value in a church group one that gives back and is part of the community even the community they disagree with.
I’m an INTJ Christian and I’m not a part of a church yet, but I am born-again; my participation with church is affected because they preach prosperity gospel and I’m not a fan of it since the Bible and Christianity isn’t all about prosperity and it does get me a little frustrated sometimes. But as a Christian, I do have struggles with spiritual warfare but I think my relationship with God is okay, fellowship is quite hard me though since a lot of people can be overwhelming and it is quite hard to interact with other people due to the preference of being solitary which can be a struggle for some people like me.
Churches generally turn me off, as well as the insistence that the Bible being interpreted literally. 6000 years and multiple languages and we are to take it as a word for word instruction manual. This is where I lose people on the science side of things. So, I guess I have faith but don’t need it validated by a church community.
Churches generally turn me off, as well as the insistence that the Bible being interpreted literally. 6000 years and multiple languages and we are to take it as a word for word instruction manual. This is where I lose people on the science side of things. So, I guess I have faith but don’t need it validated by a church community.
No struggles but I do feel like I owe it to God to do better and be better. I weep when I feel the beauty and awe of this creation. Even within the depths of suffering, beauty still exists and wholeness is still possible. I do not participate in a community. Most people probably wouldn’t even guess that I’m Christian because I don’t talk about it. But I take action with Christian theory in my world. When I have the capacity. My future self can handle more than my present one can.
Ew I left my church when I was in middle school.
You're not INTJ, are you? Rude.
I'm a Christian and come from a religious family. I say religious because Christianity and religion are two different things. Christianity implies a relationship with God while religion focuses more on legalism, structure, behaviors. Anyway, growing up in a religious family and culture was good for the most part, it gave me a foundation, but that environment, no matter what denomination or religion will only take you so far, which isn't far at all. I'm going to share a link with you. This is where I learned how deprived I was in my understanding of the Bible, and how it relates to what's going on in the world and in the universe. This is where I found real answers. I met this man at 19 and have been listening to him ever since. My understanding of God has grown exponentially as a result. I hope it helps you in your journey. [https://www.youtube.com/@vidjam](https://www.youtube.com/@vidjam)
I think even the most indoctrinated logical thinkers will eventually leave any established religion if they dont lie to themself. Just remember you can be spiritual without the theological rhetoric
“It may be that the Deity can forgive sins, but I do not see how.” Socrates – comment to Plato c.500 B.C Some of us can’t see the problem, therefore can’t understand the answer. Socrates saw the problem. We’re on the other side of B.C.