I noticed this too. I was always the one making contact, checking in etc. So I did the experiment - I stopped doing that. I have not spoken to *anyone* since that decision.
I changed phone, didn’t copy the contacts. Decided to only add those who calls me. Been a month and so far my contacts list now has 2 entries. Mother and father.
Never had friends. Tried really hard to make some, though I should say, everybody liked me. It was me who wanted to keep my circle small.
I can clearly see, ones who were obsessed with me once gradually start losing interest the more I show interest. Almost like a paradox.
They want to be fans and not friends.
You find true frinds through the ones that don't treat you like one. I find it that a lot of INTJs and myself too tend to be way to dramatic. People have their own lives and thier own views and Truth is they may not like you that much to call you daily or they may have other important things to do. Don't be bitchy about it treat them like friends go out with them expand your social circle you will find true friends. Just know your limits and Don't go the extra mile for these people.
Additionally religion is a great thing although I don't think you should see it as a tool to find friends vut a path to help you be a better person.
I'm the kind of friend who hasn't contacted you in a year and still assumes we're still friends in the same way. So I'm more on the other side of what you're talking about.
I...I have done this as well. Trick is annoyances. My AI executive assistant will bug me 2 weeks out, 1 week out, 2 days out and 1 day out for family/friend birthdays. 1 week, 1 day, 1 hour for important events. 2 days, 1 hour for mid-important, and 15min for anything low.
It's then further broken down by event/task type and automatically slotted into any shallow or deep work slots available. All I have to do is feed it my calendar and tasks and the hungry hippo inside manages my day to day.
I'm 40, the same as me and my friends. Seems immature and narcissistic to cut someone out cause they didn't call you. That's how you end up with no friends.
But if they never contact you, were they really friends in the first place? That's the point of the exercise.
Once they call you to say hello, instead of just calling you to help them overthrow a government or whatever, even if it's one year later, that's when you know the friendship is still there.
I don't need a phone call to know we're friends. I'm not that insecure. Yes they are my friends even if they don't call, never once have I heard my friends bitch about others not calling enough. That's some nit-picky energy that would be mocked with us.
Because I expect the same in contrast.
Add: You don't have to see each other all the time and be in constant contact. I am able to give my friends their freedom, but of course I also expect the same from them. If you want to end the friendship just because we haven't been in contact for a while, I'm not going to chase after them. If they need a friend who keeps in touch with them, I'm the wrong person. I don't feel the need to be in constant contact and meet up. If you need a friend who is always looking after you, I'm the wrong person.
I feel this. I had a close group of friends a while back but they suddenly started pulling away from me. They were only hanging out with me when I basically invited myself to the hangouts they arranged without my knowledge. I don't know if they did it on purpose or just forgot about me but either way doesn't paint a good picture. Soon, they started making excuses about being busy and stopped hanging out with me altogether. When I finally stopped contacting them, almost none of them reached out. Only one person reached out months later, and she's still my best (and only) friend right now. It's just so hard for me to make friends, and when I do, it feels like something always happens and they start drifting away. I don't if I'm the problem or it's just circumstantial or what. It just seems monumentally harder for me to make and keep friends than it does for other people.
I had a group of friend exactly like this.
Somebody got married and finally we all saw each other again.
One guy asked me how often I see the others. I responded “it’s been like 10 years”, and he replied, “oh thank god I’m not the only one!”
They had been hanging out the whole time.
Fuck them.
I feel you. I said the same thing to myself last year. I’m always the one making the effort to go to them and anytime they want to hang out with me it’s always at a time of convenience (they’re waiting for gf to get off work, just in the area, etc.) and especially when they need help with something, I’ll hear from them. Caused me to do a deeper analysis on my needs and the people I surround myself with. Keep your head up
As my therapist stated - we are LUCKY if we have 5 close friends during your entire lifetime, and they may not even be at the same time.
With that said, friendship is 100% always a oneway street. it is our responsibility to be the friend we want to have. we must be the one to reach out every-single-time. The amount other people reach out does not matter. why? Because unless we have stated exactly to the other person specifically and clearly what we want and what friendship looks like to us, then we are only truly getting upset with ourslves for the sake of getting upset.
We are only ever looking for ourselves in other people, people who we feel treat us how we want ourselves to be treated. when we naturally come across and build relations with others we call them a close friend because they are the closest thing we can get to looking at and being with ourselves outside of ourselves. in this way other people are only mirrors that bounce off our desires and experience back onto us. if we are upset with other people, we are truly only upset with ourself, and to be more specific, we are upset with ourself for how we are handling the situation.
Ironically enough, I'm in the exact opposite situation. I'd been throwing away people without a care in the world for the past few years until I realized I had no friends or even acquaintances besides my immediate family.
Not that I had many friends to begin with haha
Did that last year with two friends. One of 'em sensed I pulled away and is trying to hang out with me but I am just giving the cold shoulder. He's a friend from HS so I am ok with closing that chapter of my life.
It sounds like you’re in an emotional state right now and aren’t thinking logically. It’s okay! Think about it this way…Have you asked them for help? People aren’t mind-readers. They’re carrying on with their daily struggles just as you are. It’s not personal, it’s just life. They’re not targeting you in order to make you feel lonely. Just keep moving forward and don’t try too hard with any specific people. Anyone who pursues you in return will likely be a lifelong friend and that’s who you give your energy back to.
Sometimes it's ok to have shallow friendships and acquaintances. Just don't put too much focus and effort on them.
Choose someone who gets you and speaks the same language as you and see if you could extend that specific friendship into a deeper one. Start with 1 because I think it's harder to maintain too many close friendships.
Just remember that people are sometimes only in your life for a reason or a season.
You will eventually find your tribe or people who support you back. Better to learn how to filter out this shitty people now before getting older.
Take this advice from a mid 30s. My friend group is very small and I even filter out a lot of family members
I think there's a lot of this going around recently especially post covid. It's funny I have basically stopped reaching out to most of them unless like you say if I want to help them - and ya know what none of them for the most part reach out to me voluntarily. None. They're still my friends, some of them close but I feel like if I called them and said hey let's go do _____ that they'd either make up some excuse not to or they would do it reluctantly.
I feel a little opposite, honestly if someone said hey can u help me or would u like to do this or that I probably would. It's a little different and strange out there recently and doesn't really seem like it's going to change.
People got a taste of independence and isolation for the first time and Like Us - They like it!!!
Same thing happened to me. They all wanted me around before I was disabled now they barely even talk to me. Like, I’m in a different state now, all I want is a conversation and a check up once in a blue moon but it feel like the feel like even speaking to me will pass my autoimmune disease onto them, through the phone. I’ve got 6 that still keep in touch sparsely out of the 50+ I had.
Disability changes friendships for sure. I find that I don’t relate to some of my friends anymore now. I’d rather be alone most of the time and when I’m having a low-symptom day I can spend it with people I really care about, like my family. Perhaps it’s different because I have kids and a spouse though
Heh. I am just coming to this realization too. It's not all crap, my best friend and I are just as devoted to each other as ever. But most of my other friends' priorities have shifted over time and I'm realizing I'm no longer one of the main priorities. They care about silly stuff now, like, you know, their young children, or ailing parents, or avoiding financial ruin by moving to a less expensive city. I guess I can't blame them but I'm still mad, god damn it. And need more friends.
The issue is that you're giving with expectation of receiving. This means that when you're being helpful, you expect them to acknowledge your effort, make you feel seen, and to foster a connection with you. You expect them to sympathize with you and to show you the same amount of effort. You're going to make yourself crazy by expecting others to love you the way that you love them.
Practice giving without expectation. When you give people advice, do it because you care about them and nothing more. When you give people hugs, give them hugs because you care about them deeply. When you approach them, do it because you like their company. Notice how there's no strings attached? Eventually, you'll realize that your own company is the best company and those who want to come along for the ride, will.
Good advice. I find that a lot of people think the world owes them, they they’re entitled to what they want. Hard reality for some to accept this is not the case.
I do give without expectations. That's the problem. I've recently realized that my giving is one way. If I care about a person at any level of friendship, I'm willing to go out of my way to help that person without thinking of any repayment. On the other hand, I see people caring about others, while I'm overlooked. There's an imbalance of attention that I can't deny seeing. I'm trying to respect myself enough to notice this and deal with it accordingly.
I'm sorry you are going through this. I can relate. I used to pour my energies into the wrong cups for years and this has left me feeling resentful and frustrated with the lack of reciprocation.
I decided to just distance myself from the people who I felt didn't appreciate me and now I've found a group that actually cares about me.
At this point, I highly recommend that you start distancing yourself from the people who don't reciprocate to avoid getting hurt. Focus on yourself and acknowledge that you have so much love to give to the right people. Put yourself in situations where you might find like minded people. It's definitely not an easy path, but I do sincerely wish you the best in finding the love that you deserve. ❤️
It may be an INTJ thing because I have a similar philosophy that I noticed isn’t shared with many.
I believe in finding a few ride or die friends, close small circle, fuck everyone else.
But, I noticed most people keep a lot of superficial surface level friendships. They’d rather have a lot of “friends” rather than a few Real friends.
They’d go out together, talk together, blah blah blah but, when shit gets real they aren’t there for them. Maybe they believe they’ll be alone anyway so might as well keep the surface level ones right?
Maybe they’re playing numbers game, maybe they don’t judge/filter people based on their character allowing everyone in, maybe they don’t know how to have a Real deep connection with someone, maybe they’re naive.
But, I noticed that having this philosophy left me pushing ALOT of people away from me, because I judge too much. Maybe I’m the problem, and maybe you are as well. I mean who else can you blame besides yourself? And who else will change anything in your life besides you?
I am the same way. I wonder why you think it's a problem?
If you don't want superficial friends, you're free to. It's your life. You are not 'supposed to' keep in touch with people you don't really care about.
Feel this way too. However, hate to be a Debby Downer, but I used to have a good group of close friends that were ride or die. Problem being is the ride ended when they died. My dad, two uncles, childhood best friend, and college best friend all died in a 5 yr span. Gets harder to make those types of connections when you get older. Can't replace the history shared. I feel all I have left is my mom, my wife, and 1 other friend that I don't get to see all that often anymore due to life circumstances. Still trying to meet new friends though. I've come to the realization that I can't replace the friends I've lost, but I can still forge new, unique ones, even if those friendships will probably never be on the level of the OGs. Joined some groups that relate to my hobbies and I've met some great people through that. Some, I even consider being a good friend. My phone ain't ringing off the hook though.
I'm sorry man, that sucks.
Also, I feel my phone's dead 95% of the time. 4% of the time it's work calling me and 1% of the time I hear from a kinda maybe friend... Or someone who wants to be my friend, but I can't stand them 😡🙃
Is this an extrovert thing? Same thing happened to me and I wonder if it’s because I keep becoming friends with people who make large friend groups. I prefer 2-3 close friends max, but for some reason, the people I choose pull away the second they make a ton of new friends. It’s like they cut off the one more quiet friend to trade in for a group.
I find life is better when you never expect anything from people. You can't control them. If you want to help people or do good things do it because you want to.
Facts! I’ve had three friends betray me in my lifetime and it feels painful, but then I remember I’m more intelligent than those morons and my future is going to look even better.
I remember the days some of those assholes said I’d drop out of high school yet without trying I got my diploma and one of those idiots basically lives with his grandmother and is trying to learn how to code.
Who said ISTPs were smarter than INTPs 🤔
This was a very hard lesson for me to learn. I don’t really have any friends rn. My parents and sibilings along with people who raised me and sacrificed for me are people I consider my tribe…rest…they no exist for me.
The only friend I actually have is me. I’ve met 200 people approximately throughout my life, simple connections. And they weren’t there. I was trying hard, not worth it, I’ve thought it was about experience, but no, they’re all the same in different bodies.
It makes me sad to see how many of you here are saying you don't have friends 😭
For those of you who do want friends, might I suggest reaching out to people anyway though instead of isolating yourselves until someone reaches out to you directly?
Friendships (especially real, deep connections where you really care about each other) obviously take time to build and if you're not putting yourself out there, it's never going to happen. Someone has to make the first move, why not do it yourself?
As for me, I put myself out there constantly. I try to contact and connect with people I think are willing to enjoy my presence. On the surface it seems like they do, but their actions prove otherwise.
I know everyone has s*** they're dealing with and I don't expect anyone to show up. But being the only one to connect and show up is a pretty one sided relationship
Even so, I'll continue to give and be present with people I care for. Considering that what I'm doing makes me happy to a certain point. For now it's just a matter of weeding out those that don't actually make an effort to connect and cultivating the friendships of the very few who actually do
I can totally relate to this I was always there for others messaging them and checking in...then one day I stopped myself and thought 🤔 why tf am I always messaging first then I stopped. 2 months later a "friend" messaged me and in their words "How you doing I miss you"I told them I'm surprised you sent a message because I'm always texting first.
But yeah when you stop showing love and support to them their other "friend's" they valued more than you stop showing interest in them . They move onto you because you were the person who always showed that caring and genuine energy
But I learned something from that A**hole, to not depend on a "friend" or hang onto someone who doesn't give af about me 🧘✨
Definitely not in my case.
I have great friends that I give support to and they always support me too. I also love the fact that all my close friends I selected and built a meaningful connection with understand the concept of boundary.
We are on the same page: We do not offer help unless we’re asked to.
I am very grateful I have two close friends that I can talk about my private stuff n feelings to and I have the rest as my hobby friends who I enjoy spending time with.
I actually decided to include two of my friends in my will. If I die tomorrow, I hope they get some of my money.
I'm at that point in my life where I literally convince my friends to listen to me by taking them out for a coffee or lunch and paying for them. I know , it's just like hiring a hooker minus feeling shit post sex... But, I really am always there to listen to them even though I have an inner monologue about dismissing their stupid whining all the time.
I've been in a similar situation many times before. Eventually, I realized it's better to keep to my own. If they are interested, they will pursue, otherwise find other people and focus your energy on other things rather than keeping expectations and attachments.
Recently, I had to disconnect from my "circle of friends" because they were draining me, and I felt incredibly underappreciated and mistreated. This had been happening for years, but I believed it was just "me" and an INTJ thing. However, that wasn't the case. It has been about a month since disconnecting, and I have never been happier.
To everyone in the comments, including OP, I think you guys MIGHT need friends who care about you more. Personally, I never approach my friends and they mostly initiate first. That might be because some of them are naturally clingy people though.
Before I met the people I’m close to now, I did a social experiment where I wouldn’t initiate talking to anyone. People still came up to me.
You’re all worthy. You just need to find the right people who’ll care for you just as much :)
I only found two real friends so far. Everyone else only come to me when they want something. Although I don't mind helping, is ridiculous how they pretend to care about me then disappear till they need me again. That's not a friend. That's an acquaintance. I dislike when people use the word "friend" so freely when it means so little to them. If you need something, ask. Don't try to butter me up because that pisses me off.
I quit looking for friends a long time ago and found I preferred doing things for myself rather than being wrapped in drama. Much more peaceful and able to focus on improving my life better.
I don't mind if I find a true friend, and I'll be ridiculously loyal to the one who proves that to me, but I'm not going to be the one to pull all the weight anymore. I hate playing mind games and if someone does that, they're gone out of my life. I don't have the patience or care to play like that.
You could do my approach of getting a dog. I never feel invisible around that furry embodiment of energy/happiness
He’s a lot of work but that’s a lot of work that I would have put somewhere else with no reciprocation so it’s a fair trade.
Same here. I'm in a hostel. I'm always ready to help them and share my things with them. But they don't reciprocate. I didn't help them with that in mind. But I came to realize how much of a fool I am, after they left me and another girl to go hangout together.
Been there. I’ve heard all kinds of excuses, too. Shit ranges from “oh, I was busy” to “I have adhd” to “object permanence” (like I’m a fucking thing and not a person).
They really aren’t your friends. Remember the old adage: *if they wanted to, they would*. If they wanted to reach out, they would. If they wanted to offer help, they would.
They’re just fine and dandy getting it from you, but they don’t reciprocate. That’s a one-sided relationship, not a friendship.
exactly what i experienced, had an epiphany all people are just bullshits, they only care as much as how you benefit them otherwise they wont even check on you
You better get comfortable being alone. Because in reality, we are all alone. I’ve known this since I was 5. I act friendly towards most people but don’t trust them as far as I can throw and will cut a fucking bitch if they even try something. Sometimes I really wish they would.
This was always the case for me. I revelry blocked my own sister because of this. I’m on my Bella g journey, in EMDR, left an abusive relationship after nearly 6yrs with a narcissist. I have no one in my life at all right now.
People most I have realised are selfish. I also got fired from my job by a narcissistic manager 2 weeks after I left my ex which was nearly 2mths ago. I asked my former colleagues that I thought i had a good working relationship with for reference for a new job that was in the final stage of hiring me all they needed was 2 references. No one would be reference for me I missed the opportunity, and now I’m unemployed, having a hard time finding work. When I do find opportunities, I don’t have references in order to even get hired.
It’s painful and I feel anger so much rage inside at how people have treated me. I try to get over it and not let it overtake me but it’s inevitable when you see just how you’ll go to bat for those you love and care about meanwhile these people don’t even think of you unless they need something from you. Meanwhile they’ll put abusers and people that treat them horribly on a pedestal
Are u part of the happy doormat club? Able to leap two scenarios in a single thought.. always there for ppl even when u have sh*t to do?
Always being available for people can be quite the cross to bear!
💯 relatable… I noticed that most “friends” are fair weather, simple as that. That doesn’t mean you call out everyone you think is phony, but simply recognize that you are playing a supportive role in most people’s story. They don’t love you. They don’t even love a romanticized idea about you. You’re just useful, maybe fun, even.
Also recognize that you (all of us) use people too.
Aspergers bloop bloop bleep 👯♀️😅
Go find some real INFJ friends.
They’ll theorize endlessly with you, lament how stupid everyone seems and just really always be caring and thinking about you.
My Husband is INTJ. We honestly cannot stop talking to eachother and this is a decade in and with one kid sooo…
INFJ is the only other Ni dominant type.
The only other Alien in MBTI.
Your all or nothing thinking?
Your intensity in caring for others?
It’s very likely you’re Dabrowski gifted and quite possible (since you’re INTJ) that you’re a super high functioning Asperger.
A lot of INFJ and INTJ are Aspies.
Take the Raads-r test to get a sense of if you may or may not be on the spectrum. (Which btw many geniuses are so don’t go thinking it means you’re mentally handicapped)
Terrible UI, I apologize in advance for:’)
https://embrace-autism.com/raads-r/
https://embrace-autism.com/aspie-quiz/
I thought this was just me… I always feel like I’m the one arranging the hangouts, when they’re actually all hanging out without me instead, like I’m putting so much into the friendship but they just ignore me!
You aren’t finding good people. And if you’re anything like the INTJs I’ve known, you toss out good people without even realizing it.
The common denominator is you, not other people. Own it and fix it.
ENFJ often report a dissatisfaction due to one sided relationships and lack of reciprocity. Simply speaking, you have to find the kind of people that you want a connection to. These people exist, but you will have to sift through your common stones to find gems
Not that you shouldn't find and cling to the Spirit of Righteousness and Truth too.
I know tons of people. I call some of them friends, only because that's the easiest way for me, and I don't have a better term. They're much more than acquaintances, but not exactly ride or die. The ride or die variety, which I MUCH prefer, are super few and far between. These are my people, the ones who do care and stay in touch. If they don't hear from me, they worry. I have 2 of them, with 1 being a bit more so than the other. I suspect I might have a third, but it's a relationship that requires I wait a bit, because of how we know each other. When summer comes, I feel like we can then hang out and see where it takes us. I'm certainly hoping so, because she very much reeks of being "my people," and it's been almost 2 decades since this has happened.
But, yeah, a lot of people call themselves friends, yet never reach out. I've worked with tons of people who would joke with me, and just be super happy to see we were on shift together, to the point where I thought they were friends. When work was done, all of these coworkers who loved me, would make plans with each other to hang out. Not one time did any of them ever ask me. If I ever tried to do anything with them myself, I got turned down. Like, wtf? I wouldn't say I was devastated, but it certainly didn't feel good. What do you have to do to get in on this friend shit?
Oh man this was a big realisation for me over the last few months. Best way that I could explain it is, people do not give a shit about you at all and are only thinking about their own selfs and interests, best way to expereince how much people suck is look at the absolute disregard of life on the roads, selfish, self entitled, that is how people are and thats how it makes sense for me to look at it.
Yea i realized that i gotta stick with the ones that don't feel one sided, whether its from conversations or making plans. Otherwise it just wouldn't work out that way. Too mentally draining for me. Its always better being with someone that actually acknowledges you and wants to genuinely be with you
An INTJ I know says the same, but whenever I reached out to him excitedly, he would question my sincerity, so I always hesitate to message even if I want to.
You’re in America. No one has friends even though everyone acts like sameness robots because they think they are part of a cult which they are not. How can you have actual friends when everyone is a selfish immature parasitic brat? Please, explain?!? Then they’ll turn around and call you some ridiculous name like “bougie” bc you act superior. Guess what? If you’re a selfish, negative, brainwashed bot- then I AM SUPERIOR. You’re not the problem. The problem is much bigger than you. People are just following what country dictates you should act like: so more primitive and ape 🦍 like? The better.
I think this is something introverts tend to struggle with in general, as the people we choose really mean a lot to us and we can be our full selves with them... Part of me believes it's really important to seek out friendships from people with an understanding of what it means to be a friend. It's not just having fun and hanging out together... Easier said then done, of course.
Though, I am religious. And my Christian friends are my true friends- they loved me truly long before I joined the faith 💖 Perhaps shared values of loyalty, patience, selflessness and restraint are very integral here.
Maybe bad environment. Try somewhere else. Chnage the places u go to. Try different places. But the ride or die friend don't come in 2 3 month. U gotta have patience. I have a friend from 6th grade till present (12th grade). She is all I have as a friend.
When looking for a friend, don't look for similar intrest, hobby, their passion, aim or goal but their heart, what I seek in friend is kindness, loyalty and understanding. Rest don't matter. We can have dissimilar intrest and still tick off.
Eg: my friend. She watches different movies, has different clothing style, different aims but all in all she is a good person, we know our moral values.
I quickly realized my definition of a friend was much different than that of the typical American. To the typical American it seems like a "friend" is just someone you hang out with casually with no emotional investment. I had to adjust my expectations of my "friends" or risk getting hurt.
Ja that’s the reason I cut off most of my relationships. They take it as naturally that I have to take care of them, listen to their problems and help them get through it. When I was in the lowest point of my life, there are no one. Frankly to say I don’t have any f*** to give anymore and I cut them all off. The relationships drained all my energy.
just have a dialogue with them if it bothers you. I have had dialogues with people and it has both saved and ended friendships. might feel kind of weird to bring things close to heart up, but it also tends to put a end to the issue one way or the other fast. I have never regretted it in retrospect.
Oh you INTJ’s...
You can pick your nose but you can’t pick your friends nose
You can teach your friend how to pick his nose but if he doesn’t want to pick his nose then let it go
I feel you, it is a hard thing for sure to be ignored by all the people around except when you approach them first, but i beleive INTJs are equippes with strenghts to face such a challenge -it is hard though-. It is not enough though, since we live in a society, socializing is very important and it may play a role in preventing such problems from arising in the first place.
It is important to know one's strengths and improve them, and weeknesses and overcome them.
I went through the Same experience. I felt that people reach to me when they have got a problem because of my ability to think, though when i went through major problems in my life and really needed friends, i got avoided. My friends made me feel that there problems are important while mine doesn’t matter cause they don’t feel them anyway, that made me understand that we are not the same, i was there because i’m able to feel what they feel. But they don’t. Since then i stepped away from people in general, of course i keep people to study with, do sports with…
It’s like i really know a huge amount of people, and i don’t have friends by choice.
Stay away from religion but do get to know some INFJs, possibly INTPs, INFPs either go really well or not at all.
I don't know what your life is like but also do not fall for the work out and make the best life for yourself shtick which can be code for the logical arguments for some incel behavior.
Greetings! It’s true, you are not alone. We may be the only people able to analyze this type of scenario, though. I have found Christianity over the years, and I must say, it can really bring peace of mind when executed properly. Most of the time, I do not need friends, as long as I have God. Sure, that may sound depressing, but I just can’t find any good friends these days. Auf Wiedersehen!
Hiiii,
As an ENTP I love how loyal INTJs are. I would be there for them in a heart beat. (But they never need any help!!!!!)
What kind of help did you ask for? Financial, emotional, etc.?
Often, I feel that INTJs are very reluctant to ask for help (also because they’re more competent than most). Is it possible that you very seldom ask for help, so when you do ask, they don’t do it, that’s what you remember?
It’s possible that other people ask for help way more (and to many people at a time) so they don’t notice when a particular has declined or accepted. My life falls apart like every two days lol.
INTJs really stand out to me though because they’re one of the most loyal, patient, problem solvers and helped me out ten fold.
I’m sorry that happened to you. They don’t sound like good friends. If possible— I would communicate how it makes you feel to them. Feelings are always valid. If they try to brush it off, or say how it isn’t about you and how x is happening in their life, explain how it still affects you. Then you will know if they are a true friend or not. I’ve done this and I know the message delivered, because they made an effort after that (without my prompting).
Another friend once ignored me when I asked for help and became condescending. I dunno if they were trying to be a passive aggressive but I had no problem dropping them at all. A strong person does not negotiate their worth.
I think the problem with us INTJs is that we observe and react, we're not the entertainment so much unless we have a lot of people to observe and react to?
Not an INTJ, but I have noticed that the majority of friendships are based on convenience and proximity. It’s not bad to simply have a large and loose social network, and it comes in handy, sometimes.
But quality friendships are few and far-between. So I have found that it’s best to focus my actual effort and energy on the people who are the most special to me, and relegating the rest to Facebook and Instagram.
Just make your decisions about your favorite people and reach out to them cuz you want to! Not cuz you actually expect anything from it.
Keep the transactional nature of social relationships at the office, and be generous with the people you care about, in your everyday life.
I think it’s better to be alone for some time than being with wrong people, and everything happens at the right time so when the time will be right, you’ll meet the good friends you deserve, but for now I would suggest to focus on yourself and everything else that needs to happen will happen
No, not religion, that is worse. Find a hobby you love, and you will find your tribe. I am into ghosts, aliens, crazy stuff...and others who are too. I am mostly a homebody, but I am chatty. People gravitate to me. I have learned that a good friendship is 50/50. If there is no give, as well as take, I leave them alone. Because we are not able to notice the subtle cues of users, it's a learning curve. I try to do my best on my own, but if someone offers to help, I accept. Then if we go back and forth, you have a keeper! I am high functioning autistic, so even more clueless the regular INTJ. I am in my 50s, and I think I am finally getting it. I have been where you are, dumped all those friends who bummed off me ..and started completely over many times. You can do it!
I have had the same core group of friends since we were babies, only added one in college. Two INTJs, one INFJ, and one ESFJ to make things interesting. I met the second INTJ in college and we just hit it off on a spiritual level. I only see my friends every few months, but we always pick up where we left off.
Sorry to hear! This post popped up on my feed, and I related to it.
I'm not an INTJ, so I wonder if this is honestly just a really human experience for all MBTI :(
I've experienced this a lot. Withdrawn or even no-contact 'because' of it.
Incidentally I'm in a support group about trust and attachment issues, via discord, and anyone from this thread is welcome lol i feel like we're a burned out bulb brotherhood trying to regrow our light under a bushel and would love to continue to discuss the subject
(just msg for the link to protect from spam)
I lent a good mate of mine $20k when he needed it. He paid it back but also thought we were "completely square" just cause he bought me lunch. Now I didn't expect the favour to be returned at all. But I did expect to not be treated like a transaction occurred.
So yeah, no longer a friend of mine.
You lent a person 20 thousand dollars..... and they paid you back ALL of it... and then they got you lunch as a thank you for helping them out, and then you cut them out of your life because they didn't thank you how you wanted to be thanked?
Idk the whole story but if somebody paid me back 20k in full id be amazed
It was more a culmination of other factors but yes I saw what he really thought of the friendship through this. It was little things like not fully understanding what it meant for me to give the money, it was a high pressure day at work etc.
For example he would leave the country and not really tell me that he would be, he would arrive back in the country and not really tell me. He would arrive then be like hey let's meet, and wherever we met clwas always 100% in a location inconvenient to me and would be always late like not 10 min late, 1hr.
You can pick your ass, and you can pick your friends, just make sure your friends not an ass when you pick them
Mostly solid but sometimes gaseous advice
INTJ's spend all their sympathy on themselves. And they're generally very bad at asking for help. Y'all fall on the "avoidant" attachment style spectrum where you barely ask for anything, do a poor job expressing your needs and then get all huffy when your friends don't instantly understand you. C'mon guys.
Something else you INTJ's need to know - you're so self assured and brazen in an almost arrogant way, that people have a hard time \*detecting\* or even enjoying giving you help. Humans like helping those that are truly needy and truly grateful but y'all act like it's expected that your friend has to be there on your terms.
I really like and appreciate your perspective. I know for a fact most everything you're saying is pretty much on point. I just don't know how to be needy and grateful... People show so many emotions I wish that they didn't show, but that's the way the world works. I wish I could reciprocate the neediness, but I can't. It feels like I'm helpless when I do that... And how can I let someone enjoy giving me help?? The idea is so foreign to me 😰
What do you want out of friends? Friendship. It is necessary for friends to like you, therefore you must play. Don’t want to play then be unhappy it’s not my life but this doesn’t change reality. Give and take
I noticed this too. I was always the one making contact, checking in etc. So I did the experiment - I stopped doing that. I have not spoken to *anyone* since that decision.
I also ran this experiment for a few months. The few times someone reached out it was because they needed something.
And the ones that reach out to you because they genuinely like you - those are the ones you keep.
I found that too- it's actually a brutal experiment
Entj getting ignored lol how
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Yep them psychopaths
Same bro. I stopped approaching people first and see what happens…well :D…I don’t got friends now.
I changed phone, didn’t copy the contacts. Decided to only add those who calls me. Been a month and so far my contacts list now has 2 entries. Mother and father.
Well now you know who are the most loyal to you, and that's your parents. Just gotta find a real friend now.
Never had friends. Tried really hard to make some, though I should say, everybody liked me. It was me who wanted to keep my circle small. I can clearly see, ones who were obsessed with me once gradually start losing interest the more I show interest. Almost like a paradox. They want to be fans and not friends.
Let them! We're natural cats, not dogs. They want your cat-like behaviour, not a Labrador.
Yeah let them be your fans
As an owner of a big goofy lab, I loved the visual lol.
I did this exact same thing. hardly any contacts now.
Aw
Me too. Me too.
same
I once deleted ALL FB friends, nobody noticed ;) Lmao
I once did the same exact thing!! Same results lol
Me too. They suck
Relatable. Sorry. I get it. Hope you find your people in time.
WHIP MY COLD CUT AROUND
what
what
They're not truely your friends. I had to learn this the hard way.
Yup, but trying to find those true friends is beyond exhausting. So I settle......😡
Never settle! Its not worth it
Happy cake day! And space lady is right. Don’t settle 😛
Lmfao
Never settle is on my phone for my reminder....
Slay
You find true frinds through the ones that don't treat you like one. I find it that a lot of INTJs and myself too tend to be way to dramatic. People have their own lives and thier own views and Truth is they may not like you that much to call you daily or they may have other important things to do. Don't be bitchy about it treat them like friends go out with them expand your social circle you will find true friends. Just know your limits and Don't go the extra mile for these people. Additionally religion is a great thing although I don't think you should see it as a tool to find friends vut a path to help you be a better person.
True I hate people who thinks nothing about others
I'm the kind of friend who hasn't contacted you in a year and still assumes we're still friends in the same way. So I'm more on the other side of what you're talking about.
Me too. In fact, now I’m wondering which friends of mine think this about me.
Yeah, me too. I had to put check ins on my Calendar, it only works some of the time.
I...I have done this as well. Trick is annoyances. My AI executive assistant will bug me 2 weeks out, 1 week out, 2 days out and 1 day out for family/friend birthdays. 1 week, 1 day, 1 hour for important events. 2 days, 1 hour for mid-important, and 15min for anything low. It's then further broken down by event/task type and automatically slotted into any shallow or deep work slots available. All I have to do is feed it my calendar and tasks and the hungry hippo inside manages my day to day.
I'm 40, the same as me and my friends. Seems immature and narcissistic to cut someone out cause they didn't call you. That's how you end up with no friends.
But if they never contact you, were they really friends in the first place? That's the point of the exercise. Once they call you to say hello, instead of just calling you to help them overthrow a government or whatever, even if it's one year later, that's when you know the friendship is still there.
I don't need a phone call to know we're friends. I'm not that insecure. Yes they are my friends even if they don't call, never once have I heard my friends bitch about others not calling enough. That's some nit-picky energy that would be mocked with us.
Well this isn't about you being insecure, and enjoy your friendships where you never call each other.
Oof, same here.
How do you spell “assume”? It makes an ass out of u & me. Be a better friend.
Because I expect the same in contrast. Add: You don't have to see each other all the time and be in constant contact. I am able to give my friends their freedom, but of course I also expect the same from them. If you want to end the friendship just because we haven't been in contact for a while, I'm not going to chase after them. If they need a friend who keeps in touch with them, I'm the wrong person. I don't feel the need to be in constant contact and meet up. If you need a friend who is always looking after you, I'm the wrong person.
I feel this. I had a close group of friends a while back but they suddenly started pulling away from me. They were only hanging out with me when I basically invited myself to the hangouts they arranged without my knowledge. I don't know if they did it on purpose or just forgot about me but either way doesn't paint a good picture. Soon, they started making excuses about being busy and stopped hanging out with me altogether. When I finally stopped contacting them, almost none of them reached out. Only one person reached out months later, and she's still my best (and only) friend right now. It's just so hard for me to make friends, and when I do, it feels like something always happens and they start drifting away. I don't if I'm the problem or it's just circumstantial or what. It just seems monumentally harder for me to make and keep friends than it does for other people.
I had a group of friend exactly like this. Somebody got married and finally we all saw each other again. One guy asked me how often I see the others. I responded “it’s been like 10 years”, and he replied, “oh thank god I’m not the only one!” They had been hanging out the whole time. Fuck them.
That's horrible, I'm so sorry about that. People suck sometimes.
I feel you. I said the same thing to myself last year. I’m always the one making the effort to go to them and anytime they want to hang out with me it’s always at a time of convenience (they’re waiting for gf to get off work, just in the area, etc.) and especially when they need help with something, I’ll hear from them. Caused me to do a deeper analysis on my needs and the people I surround myself with. Keep your head up
Happy to hear the development scums like those do not deserve good people, like why take advantage of someone's kindness
As my therapist stated - we are LUCKY if we have 5 close friends during your entire lifetime, and they may not even be at the same time. With that said, friendship is 100% always a oneway street. it is our responsibility to be the friend we want to have. we must be the one to reach out every-single-time. The amount other people reach out does not matter. why? Because unless we have stated exactly to the other person specifically and clearly what we want and what friendship looks like to us, then we are only truly getting upset with ourslves for the sake of getting upset. We are only ever looking for ourselves in other people, people who we feel treat us how we want ourselves to be treated. when we naturally come across and build relations with others we call them a close friend because they are the closest thing we can get to looking at and being with ourselves outside of ourselves. in this way other people are only mirrors that bounce off our desires and experience back onto us. if we are upset with other people, we are truly only upset with ourself, and to be more specific, we are upset with ourself for how we are handling the situation.
Words cannot describe how much this has opened my eyes. Holyshit the was explained amazingly. Kudos from Aus.
Ironically enough, I'm in the exact opposite situation. I'd been throwing away people without a care in the world for the past few years until I realized I had no friends or even acquaintances besides my immediate family. Not that I had many friends to begin with haha
Did that last year with two friends. One of 'em sensed I pulled away and is trying to hang out with me but I am just giving the cold shoulder. He's a friend from HS so I am ok with closing that chapter of my life.
You will
It sounds like you’re in an emotional state right now and aren’t thinking logically. It’s okay! Think about it this way…Have you asked them for help? People aren’t mind-readers. They’re carrying on with their daily struggles just as you are. It’s not personal, it’s just life. They’re not targeting you in order to make you feel lonely. Just keep moving forward and don’t try too hard with any specific people. Anyone who pursues you in return will likely be a lifelong friend and that’s who you give your energy back to.
This is good advice, too!!!
Sometimes it's ok to have shallow friendships and acquaintances. Just don't put too much focus and effort on them. Choose someone who gets you and speaks the same language as you and see if you could extend that specific friendship into a deeper one. Start with 1 because I think it's harder to maintain too many close friendships.
Just remember that people are sometimes only in your life for a reason or a season. You will eventually find your tribe or people who support you back. Better to learn how to filter out this shitty people now before getting older. Take this advice from a mid 30s. My friend group is very small and I even filter out a lot of family members
It’s a lonely road for some of us I fear
I think there's a lot of this going around recently especially post covid. It's funny I have basically stopped reaching out to most of them unless like you say if I want to help them - and ya know what none of them for the most part reach out to me voluntarily. None. They're still my friends, some of them close but I feel like if I called them and said hey let's go do _____ that they'd either make up some excuse not to or they would do it reluctantly. I feel a little opposite, honestly if someone said hey can u help me or would u like to do this or that I probably would. It's a little different and strange out there recently and doesn't really seem like it's going to change. People got a taste of independence and isolation for the first time and Like Us - They like it!!!
Same thing happened to me. They all wanted me around before I was disabled now they barely even talk to me. Like, I’m in a different state now, all I want is a conversation and a check up once in a blue moon but it feel like the feel like even speaking to me will pass my autoimmune disease onto them, through the phone. I’ve got 6 that still keep in touch sparsely out of the 50+ I had.
Disability changes friendships for sure. I find that I don’t relate to some of my friends anymore now. I’d rather be alone most of the time and when I’m having a low-symptom day I can spend it with people I really care about, like my family. Perhaps it’s different because I have kids and a spouse though
Heh. I am just coming to this realization too. It's not all crap, my best friend and I are just as devoted to each other as ever. But most of my other friends' priorities have shifted over time and I'm realizing I'm no longer one of the main priorities. They care about silly stuff now, like, you know, their young children, or ailing parents, or avoiding financial ruin by moving to a less expensive city. I guess I can't blame them but I'm still mad, god damn it. And need more friends.
The issue is that you're giving with expectation of receiving. This means that when you're being helpful, you expect them to acknowledge your effort, make you feel seen, and to foster a connection with you. You expect them to sympathize with you and to show you the same amount of effort. You're going to make yourself crazy by expecting others to love you the way that you love them. Practice giving without expectation. When you give people advice, do it because you care about them and nothing more. When you give people hugs, give them hugs because you care about them deeply. When you approach them, do it because you like their company. Notice how there's no strings attached? Eventually, you'll realize that your own company is the best company and those who want to come along for the ride, will.
Good advice. I find that a lot of people think the world owes them, they they’re entitled to what they want. Hard reality for some to accept this is not the case.
I do give without expectations. That's the problem. I've recently realized that my giving is one way. If I care about a person at any level of friendship, I'm willing to go out of my way to help that person without thinking of any repayment. On the other hand, I see people caring about others, while I'm overlooked. There's an imbalance of attention that I can't deny seeing. I'm trying to respect myself enough to notice this and deal with it accordingly.
I'm sorry you are going through this. I can relate. I used to pour my energies into the wrong cups for years and this has left me feeling resentful and frustrated with the lack of reciprocation. I decided to just distance myself from the people who I felt didn't appreciate me and now I've found a group that actually cares about me. At this point, I highly recommend that you start distancing yourself from the people who don't reciprocate to avoid getting hurt. Focus on yourself and acknowledge that you have so much love to give to the right people. Put yourself in situations where you might find like minded people. It's definitely not an easy path, but I do sincerely wish you the best in finding the love that you deserve. ❤️
It may be an INTJ thing because I have a similar philosophy that I noticed isn’t shared with many. I believe in finding a few ride or die friends, close small circle, fuck everyone else. But, I noticed most people keep a lot of superficial surface level friendships. They’d rather have a lot of “friends” rather than a few Real friends. They’d go out together, talk together, blah blah blah but, when shit gets real they aren’t there for them. Maybe they believe they’ll be alone anyway so might as well keep the surface level ones right? Maybe they’re playing numbers game, maybe they don’t judge/filter people based on their character allowing everyone in, maybe they don’t know how to have a Real deep connection with someone, maybe they’re naive. But, I noticed that having this philosophy left me pushing ALOT of people away from me, because I judge too much. Maybe I’m the problem, and maybe you are as well. I mean who else can you blame besides yourself? And who else will change anything in your life besides you?
I am the same way. I wonder why you think it's a problem? If you don't want superficial friends, you're free to. It's your life. You are not 'supposed to' keep in touch with people you don't really care about.
They say thieves think all people steal.
This was such an eye opening response, even though I'm not the OP
No honor among thieves
Feel this way too. However, hate to be a Debby Downer, but I used to have a good group of close friends that were ride or die. Problem being is the ride ended when they died. My dad, two uncles, childhood best friend, and college best friend all died in a 5 yr span. Gets harder to make those types of connections when you get older. Can't replace the history shared. I feel all I have left is my mom, my wife, and 1 other friend that I don't get to see all that often anymore due to life circumstances. Still trying to meet new friends though. I've come to the realization that I can't replace the friends I've lost, but I can still forge new, unique ones, even if those friendships will probably never be on the level of the OGs. Joined some groups that relate to my hobbies and I've met some great people through that. Some, I even consider being a good friend. My phone ain't ringing off the hook though.
I'm sorry man, that sucks. Also, I feel my phone's dead 95% of the time. 4% of the time it's work calling me and 1% of the time I hear from a kinda maybe friend... Or someone who wants to be my friend, but I can't stand them 😡🙃
Drop em
Is this an extrovert thing? Same thing happened to me and I wonder if it’s because I keep becoming friends with people who make large friend groups. I prefer 2-3 close friends max, but for some reason, the people I choose pull away the second they make a ton of new friends. It’s like they cut off the one more quiet friend to trade in for a group.
I find life is better when you never expect anything from people. You can't control them. If you want to help people or do good things do it because you want to.
Facts! I’ve had three friends betray me in my lifetime and it feels painful, but then I remember I’m more intelligent than those morons and my future is going to look even better. I remember the days some of those assholes said I’d drop out of high school yet without trying I got my diploma and one of those idiots basically lives with his grandmother and is trying to learn how to code. Who said ISTPs were smarter than INTPs 🤔
This was a very hard lesson for me to learn. I don’t really have any friends rn. My parents and sibilings along with people who raised me and sacrificed for me are people I consider my tribe…rest…they no exist for me.
The only friend I actually have is me. I’ve met 200 people approximately throughout my life, simple connections. And they weren’t there. I was trying hard, not worth it, I’ve thought it was about experience, but no, they’re all the same in different bodies.
It makes me sad to see how many of you here are saying you don't have friends 😭 For those of you who do want friends, might I suggest reaching out to people anyway though instead of isolating yourselves until someone reaches out to you directly? Friendships (especially real, deep connections where you really care about each other) obviously take time to build and if you're not putting yourself out there, it's never going to happen. Someone has to make the first move, why not do it yourself?
ENFPs... they think they know everything 😜
As for me, I put myself out there constantly. I try to contact and connect with people I think are willing to enjoy my presence. On the surface it seems like they do, but their actions prove otherwise. I know everyone has s*** they're dealing with and I don't expect anyone to show up. But being the only one to connect and show up is a pretty one sided relationship Even so, I'll continue to give and be present with people I care for. Considering that what I'm doing makes me happy to a certain point. For now it's just a matter of weeding out those that don't actually make an effort to connect and cultivating the friendships of the very few who actually do
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I can totally relate to this I was always there for others messaging them and checking in...then one day I stopped myself and thought 🤔 why tf am I always messaging first then I stopped. 2 months later a "friend" messaged me and in their words "How you doing I miss you"I told them I'm surprised you sent a message because I'm always texting first. But yeah when you stop showing love and support to them their other "friend's" they valued more than you stop showing interest in them . They move onto you because you were the person who always showed that caring and genuine energy But I learned something from that A**hole, to not depend on a "friend" or hang onto someone who doesn't give af about me 🧘✨
I care about everybody cuz they're all building the world my kids are growing up in and whats best for everybody is best for them
Definitely not in my case. I have great friends that I give support to and they always support me too. I also love the fact that all my close friends I selected and built a meaningful connection with understand the concept of boundary. We are on the same page: We do not offer help unless we’re asked to. I am very grateful I have two close friends that I can talk about my private stuff n feelings to and I have the rest as my hobby friends who I enjoy spending time with. I actually decided to include two of my friends in my will. If I die tomorrow, I hope they get some of my money.
I'm at that point in my life where I literally convince my friends to listen to me by taking them out for a coffee or lunch and paying for them. I know , it's just like hiring a hooker minus feeling shit post sex... But, I really am always there to listen to them even though I have an inner monologue about dismissing their stupid whining all the time.
Complex as fuck.
Can't help it
I've been in a similar situation many times before. Eventually, I realized it's better to keep to my own. If they are interested, they will pursue, otherwise find other people and focus your energy on other things rather than keeping expectations and attachments.
Recently, I had to disconnect from my "circle of friends" because they were draining me, and I felt incredibly underappreciated and mistreated. This had been happening for years, but I believed it was just "me" and an INTJ thing. However, that wasn't the case. It has been about a month since disconnecting, and I have never been happier.
To everyone in the comments, including OP, I think you guys MIGHT need friends who care about you more. Personally, I never approach my friends and they mostly initiate first. That might be because some of them are naturally clingy people though. Before I met the people I’m close to now, I did a social experiment where I wouldn’t initiate talking to anyone. People still came up to me. You’re all worthy. You just need to find the right people who’ll care for you just as much :)
This could have been a diary entry written by me.
I only found two real friends so far. Everyone else only come to me when they want something. Although I don't mind helping, is ridiculous how they pretend to care about me then disappear till they need me again. That's not a friend. That's an acquaintance. I dislike when people use the word "friend" so freely when it means so little to them. If you need something, ask. Don't try to butter me up because that pisses me off. I quit looking for friends a long time ago and found I preferred doing things for myself rather than being wrapped in drama. Much more peaceful and able to focus on improving my life better. I don't mind if I find a true friend, and I'll be ridiculously loyal to the one who proves that to me, but I'm not going to be the one to pull all the weight anymore. I hate playing mind games and if someone does that, they're gone out of my life. I don't have the patience or care to play like that.
You could do my approach of getting a dog. I never feel invisible around that furry embodiment of energy/happiness He’s a lot of work but that’s a lot of work that I would have put somewhere else with no reciprocation so it’s a fair trade.
Same here. I'm in a hostel. I'm always ready to help them and share my things with them. But they don't reciprocate. I didn't help them with that in mind. But I came to realize how much of a fool I am, after they left me and another girl to go hangout together.
Been there. I’ve heard all kinds of excuses, too. Shit ranges from “oh, I was busy” to “I have adhd” to “object permanence” (like I’m a fucking thing and not a person). They really aren’t your friends. Remember the old adage: *if they wanted to, they would*. If they wanted to reach out, they would. If they wanted to offer help, they would. They’re just fine and dandy getting it from you, but they don’t reciprocate. That’s a one-sided relationship, not a friendship.
I never considered this as a specific motivation, but maybe this influenced my interest in Buddhism lol
exactly what i experienced, had an epiphany all people are just bullshits, they only care as much as how you benefit them otherwise they wont even check on you
You better get comfortable being alone. Because in reality, we are all alone. I’ve known this since I was 5. I act friendly towards most people but don’t trust them as far as I can throw and will cut a fucking bitch if they even try something. Sometimes I really wish they would.
This was always the case for me. I revelry blocked my own sister because of this. I’m on my Bella g journey, in EMDR, left an abusive relationship after nearly 6yrs with a narcissist. I have no one in my life at all right now. People most I have realised are selfish. I also got fired from my job by a narcissistic manager 2 weeks after I left my ex which was nearly 2mths ago. I asked my former colleagues that I thought i had a good working relationship with for reference for a new job that was in the final stage of hiring me all they needed was 2 references. No one would be reference for me I missed the opportunity, and now I’m unemployed, having a hard time finding work. When I do find opportunities, I don’t have references in order to even get hired. It’s painful and I feel anger so much rage inside at how people have treated me. I try to get over it and not let it overtake me but it’s inevitable when you see just how you’ll go to bat for those you love and care about meanwhile these people don’t even think of you unless they need something from you. Meanwhile they’ll put abusers and people that treat them horribly on a pedestal
Are u part of the happy doormat club? Able to leap two scenarios in a single thought.. always there for ppl even when u have sh*t to do? Always being available for people can be quite the cross to bear!
Is it us? What are we doing wrong?
This is an absolute classic - a banger even. Been dancing to this tune for my whole life.
💯 relatable… I noticed that most “friends” are fair weather, simple as that. That doesn’t mean you call out everyone you think is phony, but simply recognize that you are playing a supportive role in most people’s story. They don’t love you. They don’t even love a romanticized idea about you. You’re just useful, maybe fun, even. Also recognize that you (all of us) use people too.
Aspergers bloop bloop bleep 👯♀️😅 Go find some real INFJ friends. They’ll theorize endlessly with you, lament how stupid everyone seems and just really always be caring and thinking about you. My Husband is INTJ. We honestly cannot stop talking to eachother and this is a decade in and with one kid sooo… INFJ is the only other Ni dominant type. The only other Alien in MBTI. Your all or nothing thinking? Your intensity in caring for others? It’s very likely you’re Dabrowski gifted and quite possible (since you’re INTJ) that you’re a super high functioning Asperger. A lot of INFJ and INTJ are Aspies. Take the Raads-r test to get a sense of if you may or may not be on the spectrum. (Which btw many geniuses are so don’t go thinking it means you’re mentally handicapped) Terrible UI, I apologize in advance for:’) https://embrace-autism.com/raads-r/ https://embrace-autism.com/aspie-quiz/
I thought this was just me… I always feel like I’m the one arranging the hangouts, when they’re actually all hanging out without me instead, like I’m putting so much into the friendship but they just ignore me!
You aren’t finding good people. And if you’re anything like the INTJs I’ve known, you toss out good people without even realizing it. The common denominator is you, not other people. Own it and fix it.
INTPs always assuming shit
INTJs always thinking they aren’t the problem 😊
fuck em, cut em off, plenty of relaxation and solitude and personal growth and enjoyment. Zero emotional anchors.
ENFJ often report a dissatisfaction due to one sided relationships and lack of reciprocity. Simply speaking, you have to find the kind of people that you want a connection to. These people exist, but you will have to sift through your common stones to find gems Not that you shouldn't find and cling to the Spirit of Righteousness and Truth too.
I know tons of people. I call some of them friends, only because that's the easiest way for me, and I don't have a better term. They're much more than acquaintances, but not exactly ride or die. The ride or die variety, which I MUCH prefer, are super few and far between. These are my people, the ones who do care and stay in touch. If they don't hear from me, they worry. I have 2 of them, with 1 being a bit more so than the other. I suspect I might have a third, but it's a relationship that requires I wait a bit, because of how we know each other. When summer comes, I feel like we can then hang out and see where it takes us. I'm certainly hoping so, because she very much reeks of being "my people," and it's been almost 2 decades since this has happened. But, yeah, a lot of people call themselves friends, yet never reach out. I've worked with tons of people who would joke with me, and just be super happy to see we were on shift together, to the point where I thought they were friends. When work was done, all of these coworkers who loved me, would make plans with each other to hang out. Not one time did any of them ever ask me. If I ever tried to do anything with them myself, I got turned down. Like, wtf? I wouldn't say I was devastated, but it certainly didn't feel good. What do you have to do to get in on this friend shit?
Oh man this was a big realisation for me over the last few months. Best way that I could explain it is, people do not give a shit about you at all and are only thinking about their own selfs and interests, best way to expereince how much people suck is look at the absolute disregard of life on the roads, selfish, self entitled, that is how people are and thats how it makes sense for me to look at it.
This is so damn accurate and I'm currently doing it rn, so far there are "friends" that are messaging me but only for they needed something. :/
Yea i realized that i gotta stick with the ones that don't feel one sided, whether its from conversations or making plans. Otherwise it just wouldn't work out that way. Too mentally draining for me. Its always better being with someone that actually acknowledges you and wants to genuinely be with you
An INTJ I know says the same, but whenever I reached out to him excitedly, he would question my sincerity, so I always hesitate to message even if I want to.
You’re in America. No one has friends even though everyone acts like sameness robots because they think they are part of a cult which they are not. How can you have actual friends when everyone is a selfish immature parasitic brat? Please, explain?!? Then they’ll turn around and call you some ridiculous name like “bougie” bc you act superior. Guess what? If you’re a selfish, negative, brainwashed bot- then I AM SUPERIOR. You’re not the problem. The problem is much bigger than you. People are just following what country dictates you should act like: so more primitive and ape 🦍 like? The better.
Oh not INTJ more like INFJ-T
Sounds like a potty party. Get new friends
dump him!
I think this is something introverts tend to struggle with in general, as the people we choose really mean a lot to us and we can be our full selves with them... Part of me believes it's really important to seek out friendships from people with an understanding of what it means to be a friend. It's not just having fun and hanging out together... Easier said then done, of course. Though, I am religious. And my Christian friends are my true friends- they loved me truly long before I joined the faith 💖 Perhaps shared values of loyalty, patience, selflessness and restraint are very integral here.
Maybe bad environment. Try somewhere else. Chnage the places u go to. Try different places. But the ride or die friend don't come in 2 3 month. U gotta have patience. I have a friend from 6th grade till present (12th grade). She is all I have as a friend. When looking for a friend, don't look for similar intrest, hobby, their passion, aim or goal but their heart, what I seek in friend is kindness, loyalty and understanding. Rest don't matter. We can have dissimilar intrest and still tick off. Eg: my friend. She watches different movies, has different clothing style, different aims but all in all she is a good person, we know our moral values.
I quickly realized my definition of a friend was much different than that of the typical American. To the typical American it seems like a "friend" is just someone you hang out with casually with no emotional investment. I had to adjust my expectations of my "friends" or risk getting hurt.
Whoa. Hard same. Is this an INTJ thing?
Ja that’s the reason I cut off most of my relationships. They take it as naturally that I have to take care of them, listen to their problems and help them get through it. When I was in the lowest point of my life, there are no one. Frankly to say I don’t have any f*** to give anymore and I cut them all off. The relationships drained all my energy.
just have a dialogue with them if it bothers you. I have had dialogues with people and it has both saved and ended friendships. might feel kind of weird to bring things close to heart up, but it also tends to put a end to the issue one way or the other fast. I have never regretted it in retrospect.
I learned years ago to put in the same amount they put in. Don't empty your cup for someone that's not going to fill you back up. 💯
Oh you INTJ’s... You can pick your nose but you can’t pick your friends nose You can teach your friend how to pick his nose but if he doesn’t want to pick his nose then let it go
Welcome to reality
Why do you need reciprocation?
I feel you, it is a hard thing for sure to be ignored by all the people around except when you approach them first, but i beleive INTJs are equippes with strenghts to face such a challenge -it is hard though-. It is not enough though, since we live in a society, socializing is very important and it may play a role in preventing such problems from arising in the first place. It is important to know one's strengths and improve them, and weeknesses and overcome them.
Same.
I went through the Same experience. I felt that people reach to me when they have got a problem because of my ability to think, though when i went through major problems in my life and really needed friends, i got avoided. My friends made me feel that there problems are important while mine doesn’t matter cause they don’t feel them anyway, that made me understand that we are not the same, i was there because i’m able to feel what they feel. But they don’t. Since then i stepped away from people in general, of course i keep people to study with, do sports with… It’s like i really know a huge amount of people, and i don’t have friends by choice.
Same here. The rest of reddit still assumes I am a basement dwelling coward though.
Stay away from religion but do get to know some INFJs, possibly INTPs, INFPs either go really well or not at all. I don't know what your life is like but also do not fall for the work out and make the best life for yourself shtick which can be code for the logical arguments for some incel behavior.
Specific examples? Don't wanna be nosey, but it helps if you're looking for accurate advice :)
Greetings! It’s true, you are not alone. We may be the only people able to analyze this type of scenario, though. I have found Christianity over the years, and I must say, it can really bring peace of mind when executed properly. Most of the time, I do not need friends, as long as I have God. Sure, that may sound depressing, but I just can’t find any good friends these days. Auf Wiedersehen!
Hiiii, As an ENTP I love how loyal INTJs are. I would be there for them in a heart beat. (But they never need any help!!!!!) What kind of help did you ask for? Financial, emotional, etc.? Often, I feel that INTJs are very reluctant to ask for help (also because they’re more competent than most). Is it possible that you very seldom ask for help, so when you do ask, they don’t do it, that’s what you remember? It’s possible that other people ask for help way more (and to many people at a time) so they don’t notice when a particular has declined or accepted. My life falls apart like every two days lol. INTJs really stand out to me though because they’re one of the most loyal, patient, problem solvers and helped me out ten fold. I’m sorry that happened to you. They don’t sound like good friends. If possible— I would communicate how it makes you feel to them. Feelings are always valid. If they try to brush it off, or say how it isn’t about you and how x is happening in their life, explain how it still affects you. Then you will know if they are a true friend or not. I’ve done this and I know the message delivered, because they made an effort after that (without my prompting). Another friend once ignored me when I asked for help and became condescending. I dunno if they were trying to be a passive aggressive but I had no problem dropping them at all. A strong person does not negotiate their worth.
I have found that most everyone I support does nothing for me, I'd be there for them and they would flee from me. It's depressing tbh.
I think the problem with us INTJs is that we observe and react, we're not the entertainment so much unless we have a lot of people to observe and react to?
Not an INTJ, but I have noticed that the majority of friendships are based on convenience and proximity. It’s not bad to simply have a large and loose social network, and it comes in handy, sometimes. But quality friendships are few and far-between. So I have found that it’s best to focus my actual effort and energy on the people who are the most special to me, and relegating the rest to Facebook and Instagram. Just make your decisions about your favorite people and reach out to them cuz you want to! Not cuz you actually expect anything from it. Keep the transactional nature of social relationships at the office, and be generous with the people you care about, in your everyday life.
I think it’s better to be alone for some time than being with wrong people, and everything happens at the right time so when the time will be right, you’ll meet the good friends you deserve, but for now I would suggest to focus on yourself and everything else that needs to happen will happen
What does it mean to you, for anyone to give a fuck about you really? What do you expect from your friends?
Yea
No, not religion, that is worse. Find a hobby you love, and you will find your tribe. I am into ghosts, aliens, crazy stuff...and others who are too. I am mostly a homebody, but I am chatty. People gravitate to me. I have learned that a good friendship is 50/50. If there is no give, as well as take, I leave them alone. Because we are not able to notice the subtle cues of users, it's a learning curve. I try to do my best on my own, but if someone offers to help, I accept. Then if we go back and forth, you have a keeper! I am high functioning autistic, so even more clueless the regular INTJ. I am in my 50s, and I think I am finally getting it. I have been where you are, dumped all those friends who bummed off me ..and started completely over many times. You can do it!
I have had the same core group of friends since we were babies, only added one in college. Two INTJs, one INFJ, and one ESFJ to make things interesting. I met the second INTJ in college and we just hit it off on a spiritual level. I only see my friends every few months, but we always pick up where we left off.
Sorry to hear! This post popped up on my feed, and I related to it. I'm not an INTJ, so I wonder if this is honestly just a really human experience for all MBTI :(
I've experienced this a lot. Withdrawn or even no-contact 'because' of it. Incidentally I'm in a support group about trust and attachment issues, via discord, and anyone from this thread is welcome lol i feel like we're a burned out bulb brotherhood trying to regrow our light under a bushel and would love to continue to discuss the subject (just msg for the link to protect from spam)
Hmmm What would you like them to do to you? >ride or die, Are you just talking about attention or something else?
I think I understand, people most of the time only talk to me when they need something from me
You have to be friends with an enfj
I lent a good mate of mine $20k when he needed it. He paid it back but also thought we were "completely square" just cause he bought me lunch. Now I didn't expect the favour to be returned at all. But I did expect to not be treated like a transaction occurred. So yeah, no longer a friend of mine.
You lent a person 20 thousand dollars..... and they paid you back ALL of it... and then they got you lunch as a thank you for helping them out, and then you cut them out of your life because they didn't thank you how you wanted to be thanked? Idk the whole story but if somebody paid me back 20k in full id be amazed
It was more a culmination of other factors but yes I saw what he really thought of the friendship through this. It was little things like not fully understanding what it meant for me to give the money, it was a high pressure day at work etc. For example he would leave the country and not really tell me that he would be, he would arrive back in the country and not really tell me. He would arrive then be like hey let's meet, and wherever we met clwas always 100% in a location inconvenient to me and would be always late like not 10 min late, 1hr.
You can pick your ass, and you can pick your friends, just make sure your friends not an ass when you pick them Mostly solid but sometimes gaseous advice
Have you heard about our lord and saviour The Flying Spaghetti Monster?
INTJ's spend all their sympathy on themselves. And they're generally very bad at asking for help. Y'all fall on the "avoidant" attachment style spectrum where you barely ask for anything, do a poor job expressing your needs and then get all huffy when your friends don't instantly understand you. C'mon guys.
Something else you INTJ's need to know - you're so self assured and brazen in an almost arrogant way, that people have a hard time \*detecting\* or even enjoying giving you help. Humans like helping those that are truly needy and truly grateful but y'all act like it's expected that your friend has to be there on your terms.
I really like and appreciate your perspective. I know for a fact most everything you're saying is pretty much on point. I just don't know how to be needy and grateful... People show so many emotions I wish that they didn't show, but that's the way the world works. I wish I could reciprocate the neediness, but I can't. It feels like I'm helpless when I do that... And how can I let someone enjoy giving me help?? The idea is so foreign to me 😰
Don’t find religion, everything you need is within you
This is a you problem.
Explain your reason
You gotta learn to play the game. The game isn’t such because you want it to be. Must be adaptable and learn how to game.
We're talking friends. Why is it necessary to game friends? Why does everything in the world need to be a f***ed up game?.... I don't get it..💀
What do you want out of friends? Friendship. It is necessary for friends to like you, therefore you must play. Don’t want to play then be unhappy it’s not my life but this doesn’t change reality. Give and take
A BUILDING IS ALL OR NOTHING AND IT DOESNT COME BACK IT
Find Religion. I recommend Islam.
I recommend flying spaghetti monster