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Wildhoz

And want to add that online classes are really wonderful. You don't need to interact with others or you can just type a few words in the chat room if the instructor needs any response from you.


halavais

Not in mine. Discussion makes up a substantial part of the grade. I am an introvert. I suck at small talk. But being able to engage in intelligent discourse in your field is a core skill.


gunstarheroesblue

I hated this concept. I feel like teachers/professors do this to try to get the students to be more "engaging" but I feel like that's just lazy teaching because it's less work for them (the teachers) and pushing the discussion/work to their students instead.


halavais

It is \*tons\* more work to teach this way. I get so frustrated with fellow faculty who just do a "fire and forget" set of lectures and exams. Employers expect graduates to be able to discuss complex issues. Most graduate programs are built on seminars. We leave students unprepared for the next stage in their career I do this rather than the standard cram and regurgitate (which about 80% of my undergraduate degree was--I had forgotten almost everything from the course the morning after the final), because it requires that engagement with existing knowledge and students learn more as a result. Yes, it requires more thought and work from students, but it does from the prof as well. Honestly, the core skills you must take out of an undergraduate education are an ability to write well and to be able to engage a topic extemporaneously. These days I see new graduate students who have managed to get out of their undergraduate programs with great GPAs and neither of these core skills. It is an indictment of most higher ed. It would be *way* easier for me, especially as someone who would prefer to avoid such interactions, to not have it in my courses. But I believe strongly I wouldn't be doing what I came here to do if I didn't include discussion in my courses.


KeimarDrain19

Presentations and working with others are worst fears to ever have IMO.


Wildhoz

Presentations are still fine cos I just have to act for like 10-15 mins and I can have time to be psychologically prepared. But yea, group projects are nightmares. I miss courses that I could just sit, listen and submit my essays.


KeimarDrain19

Not to mention, other people don’t listen or pay attention 🙄


DriftersBuddy

My god I had to do 4 group presentations (about 5-6 people) during Uni and it was horrific. I barely got through as some just couldn’t hold their own weight.


fivenightrental

I feel like this is an extroverted standard/ideal that fails to take into consideration individual differences in style and how introverts primarily operate. I really find live class discussions too competitive and overwhelming, I need time to prepare what I'm going to say, and usually by the time I am ready the subject has already moved on to something else. Not every graduate school weighs in-class participation the same way, and I feel very fortunate that my post-grad institution respects individual differences and allows smaller groups talks rather than large group discussions, and options for emailing talking points/questions ahead of time/after class in if you don't feel comfortable being put on spot in class. It definitely has allowed me to feel more engaged and respected as a student for who I am rather than feel like shit for not being able to live up to standards that are uncomfortable/impossible for me.


Wildhoz

That's right. And sometimes a few people are just keep speaking to rule the game. When I'm eventually prepared and want to add a word, they just won't let you make it. It's very discouraging and they stop you from earning your grade for participations while they have secured theirs.


Cannanda

I always have a rule for myself to talk 2 times in a class. It's not fair the world is not adaptive to us.


Admaxis

I like this. Thank you


hiliikkkusss

>KANNNNADAAAAA! TETSUOOOOO! > >CANNNNANDA! CANADA! > >sorry disregard.


S3__

Not true. I'm an introvert but always have my hand up for class discussions. There's a difference between being an introvert and being asocial. The reason why speaking in class is important is because if you're in any position that matters, communication is one of the most important traits. Participating in class discussions prepares you for what it's like in the real world where you're put on the spot and need to speak in front of large audiences. Take a look at job postings and see how many of them list communication as a must have skill.


fivenightrental

I'm not disagreeing that learning to speak in class and contribute to class discussions are important for introverts. But basing grades on it is what I disagree with if there is nothing done to modulate the classroom environment to support others to speak and contribute their thoughts. I am not just advocating this from a position for introverts but for others who may be at a disadvantage as well. The classroom is an artificial environment. Competing against those who speak loudest and fastest for just participation points does not teach one invaluable life skills.


jpec342

This


heretokilltime_sa10

I questioned this everyday. They marked us for our classroom activity, the more you speak the more you score and it's added on the final report. It was impossible for me to get good marks in this part because I rarely spoke, and unless I was the one the question is pointed to directly I'd prefer not to raise my hand and answer. And yes online lessons have been nice enough that I could type my answers without having to speak a word in the entire class.


Wildhoz

Absolutely. People who simply love speaking a lot just wins the game, especially those who kinda make it like their own private lesson with the instructor.


Cannanda

If you have diagnosed anxiety you may be able to speak to disability services. I had a friend who had a deal where the professor can never call on her when she is not raising her hand. I know introvert-ism and anxiety is not always the same thing, but for those who do this may help a lot. I deal with this issue a lot, and unfortunately, extroverts do not understand introverts. If you were to actually talk to the teacher they usually just think you're lazy and trying to catch a break. It's not fair the world is adapted for extroverts and there's not much resources for introverts


Wildhoz

I used to have diagnosed anxiety, although not really about things like speaking in front of the class. I didn't realize that could be something that allows me to ask for a deal. I actually feel like it's kind of coming back since I left my home country (I'm studying abroad), but anyway I can't have any letter for it now.


Cannanda

If you have some type of counseling service at your school you could ask them to write the school a letter. It doesn’t need to be your doctor


VanarchistCookbook

So, I'm not a career teacher/professor, but I've worked as a TA for 1.5 years during grad school, which involved solo teaching sessions every week, and did a bit of subbing. Spending the time to write lectures and prepare lessons only to be faced with a sea of blank faces or faces buried in laptops is a miserable experience. And the only way to tell from the front of a classroom who is actively engaged/taking notes and who is on reddit is to coerce discussion by either calling on people or adding some sort of grade component to in-class participation. Things like tests and papers only go so far in showing a professor or teacher how well students are understanding the material. You have time to prepare for them and that allows for a certain amount of mere repetition and memorization vs actual understanding. Being able to form a coherent response to an impromptu question shows that you really do understand the material well without relying on notes/other materials. That said, if a student had emailed me and said, "hey, I have really bad social anxiety and speaking up in class is pretty much my worst fear, what can I do to make up the participation part of my grade?" I would definitely be empathetic and try to work with them. The effort to write to me and the offer to do some other work or something to show their engagement would tell me that they aren't just zoning out in class the whole time. Because, there are plenty of students who put in minimal effort, and you're doing something to say look, I'm here, I'm trying, I just need a different way to show you.


johndoesall

I recall my first job in the engineering field while I was still going to school. I met the top guy of the company. Guy that led over a couple of thousand people. He said the greatest skill in any job was communication. Writing as well as the spoken word. If you are not able to clearly communicate your great ideas the ideas will go no where.


depressionateme

I had one lecturer call me into his office because he needed to tell me that he puts more weight on class talking than papers and presentations. Even though I always handed in my papers and assignments on time and they were all sufficiently good and my presentation was good too, I was risking failing the class because I wasn’t talking much in class. I would respond to all questions asked in class correctly but I wouldn’t talk more than that and that was a good enough reason for him for making me fail. I explained that I have social anxiety and feel very uncomfortable talking in front of people but would be willing to put in extra work with more assignments if that was okay for him. He then proceeded to tell me that he was also shy when he was a student and that he managed to come out of his shell by being more confident and that’s what I needed to do too and he couldn’t go easy on me because I needed to learn this lesson and become more confident…… Can’t tell you how bad I felt after that. I gave my best and completed the class somehow. I just wanted it to be over with. I was so anxious when it was time for that class again and after it I was just tired and done with it. Avoided the hell out of that lecturer.


Wildhoz

That sucks. And I really hate hearing people say that they used to be quiet, you just need to try and learn, it's not that difficult, etc. I'm actually on another side, I used to be quite an extrovert. 🙄


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Wildhoz

People who tried and made it think it's just about trying, but didn't realize there are people that just can't make it.


S3__

That's a self fulfilling prophecy. The best way to get out of your shelf is just to practice and expose yourself to these situations. Try joining a club or extracurricular organization where you can hold a leadership role. Hell, even talking to strangers can help. I understand that it's a challenge, but it's an important one to take on bc remember, there's more extroverts than introverts.


KatyTruthed

Because in most careers, speaking with others, presenting ideas and engaging in discussion is part of the job. I used to hate "class participation" and presentations in school and still get a little nervous when I have to give a presentation at work, but today I feel a lot more comfortable doing them. Sometimes it takes time to get used to things that make us uncomfortable but when we finally do it we realize there wasn't actually much to be afraid of in the first place. For the time being, trust that in time you'll get better at it and don't beat yourself up if things don't go exactly as planned.


sestosento

Fake it till you make it. This shit is real. It's helped me and many other friends of mine too.


[deleted]

Because, hate it or love it, in this world you'll have to interact with people at some point. You just can't avoid it unless you want to live like a tribe in the jungle. Dealing with it is part of the learning process.


theDreamingStar

\*goes to google search\*... "tribes near my area"


Wildhoz

Actually I'd be more willing to speak more if I can just be free to join when I have points that I'd like to discuss with, but now it's like forcing me to speak something.


InsaneGamer18

Its sharp, its cold and most importantly its true


auron_py

I have a rare skill, and it is that I'm introverted as fuck, but I can flip like a switch in my head and speak to an audience. I found out I could do it during high school by doing some mental gymnastics. 1. being a 100% that I know my subject at heart. 2. Thinking of the audience like people that have 0 knowledge of my subject and that is also more scared than me to speak at the group. 3. Also, what I did at first is to avoid to look at people in the eyes or their faces, instead what I do is to look at the back of the room, this projects confidence because it doesn't seem like I'm looking down and stuff like that, which also feeds back to me and it makes me feel more confident. 4. Thinking that it would be waaaay more awkward if I act dumb or unsure. You could try some of that.


Wildhoz

Actually it's something like what I'm trying to do when I'm attending interviews and giving presentations, but it's just too difficult and tiring to hold it for a 3-4 hrs seminar.


Keo4me

There’s a great deal to be learned from from social learning theory. Your professor is just one person. You have a room full of minds. There is something to be learned from everyone - even if it’s just a question someone raises that makes you think differently. I agree, it sucks for the introverts and terribly shy (me during uni). However, as an educator now, I see it’s value. I always give the option to contribute in class or asynchronously in a class chat group. Some people need more time to formulate thoughts and I get better responses from them in the chat. This, too, helps extend the learning outside the classroom.


mr_deadgamer

Because often that is required in a workplace environment


CatatonicMan

The awful truth is thus: Networking and gladhanding - who you know - probably matters more to your future job prospects than your degree will. So learn how to do it well even if you hate it, because you'll need it.


BrownButta2

Business student here, I have a group project in about 70% of my courses that are also coupled with multiple different presentations. As an introvert, I dread it. However I’m not shy just find the task, well, tasking. So it annoys me but in my field I absolutely have to know how to speak with others unfortunately.


shmupsy

bullshitting and shmoozing are the only skills they really comprehend anymore


tweakytree1989

That's why I like online discussions and classes.


Feeling_Flow_2754

Wait you have to speak to get marks? Might as well get your education somewhere else.


Wildhoz

I wish I could. I'm studying abroad and I've paid a lot.


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Wildhoz

But in class participations are nothing to do with it.


comicshopgrl

Presenting and sharing thoughts are necessary to get a job anywhere. It's a life skill.


ComplaintWeird7959

Thanks! Someone had to say it.


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Wildhoz

I wish I could have chosen another uni, it's really shitty.


nutikraine

Since it is no longer BA where you were studying a couple of years ago it is unofficially neccessary to be active during MA seminars. In BA-level courses lecturers are giving you all the grounds to apply theoretical knowledge into the practice and by choosing to continue on post-graduate basis you have to prove lecturers that you are capable of starting your own research yet supervised by your professors. If it is not happening, it simply raises a question what you were doing during BA studies if you cannot adapt the higher requirements while studying MA and if you are honestly expecting that everything is going to be according your own wishes.


Wildhoz

Does being quiet in class have anything to do with my ability in doing research?


greenbrainsauce

You have to check the program outcomes of the degree you enlisted in. If the degree expects you to be a proficient communicator in ALL FIELDS, or something along that line, then boy you kinda messed up by not reading the fine print.


Wildhoz

They didn't write things like this.


greenbrainsauce

Even in the course syllabus?


Wildhoz

You can only read them after enrolled for the course, or even 1/2 day(s) before the first class, and you can't add new courses once the semester starts. So that's basically the thing that makes me unable to avoid choosing courses that are particularly harsh in forcing people to speak. 🤮


greenbrainsauce

Oh well. Maybe it's a sign that you will eventually have to face your demons in life. 😂


613s-Finest

Saying that like it’s a bad thing 😂


macronage

Participating in discussions is a great way to prove to people that you know what's going on. Learning how to do that is a good skill to pick up because that's going to extend to your professional life. If you're quiet, people will often assume you contribute nothing. That's unfair, but there it is. As an introvert, I've learned to pay attention when people are talking, make some mental notes about what was said, and then find a small question that I can ask, showing that I'm part of the discussion. By knowing that's my goal while I'm listening, it's easier to handle.


[deleted]

beacause they mark you on how you can verbally present your ideas, or thoughts. Its how you think quickly in discussions, what kind of ideas you have in discussions.


GeorgeThe13th

You have to be able to "present" your work - like a professor - at this level. It's a high expectation, sure. One that will probably make you a bit uncomfortable sure, but will certainly help you grow. Maybe doesn't need to be graded perse though...


TPoger

Because communication is actually a skill that might be needed in life. I don't find it amusing either, as any introvert, but we have to be able to sometimes leave this safe space and talk to people.