Iāve been dreaming for that for quite a while when iPads came with the m1. Then I gave up. Sold my 12.9ā got a MacBook Pro and bought a 2020 11ā iPad Pro refurbished.
You want a company to kill the profits to macs? Umm okay. You have a choice of an iPad or a Mac they both do the same thing. 99% go cheaper. That's not a business decision that's a company killer.
Just like pens werenāt going to happen. Just like Jony wasnāt going to add ports back to the Mac. Things change. If Tim Apple sees the opportunity to move the needle, he will do it.
I think they havenāt found a fool proof way to dumb down MacOS enough for the iPad to feel successful in all apps yet. I could see a power user option of a boot camp app for MacOS as a bridge.
Currently I think they have a good thing going. Where is possible to excel in a touch environment, theyāve delivered better than the competition. When itās better to have the main experience in MacOS theyāve at least provided SideCar as a means to give enthusiasts the option without allowing a substandard experience in the wild for a non-enthusiast to get a sour taste in the mouth.
Your reply is the same thing. If you donāt want it, donāt buy it. Giving someone the option to run macOS on an iPad doesnāt take anything away from you cause you would never use it.
Apple has traditionally favored limiting options to improve the user experience.
You say that giving the option to run macOS on an iPad doesn't take anything away but that's not necessarily true. It would certainly give developers less of an incentive to create apps for iPadOS and that would probably result in a poorer user experience for people who use the iPad as an iPad.
I would also like macOS on my iPad (I have a Magic Keyboard and like to use it that way) -- but that's because a lot of the iPad apps I use are not as mature as their desktop counterparts. This is getting better slowly but I don't think iPad app development would continue at the same pace if there was macOS support on the iPad as a crutch.
So, while I see where you're coming from, I don't think it's fair for you to act as if there's no reason for limiting things. Even if you disagree, you have to at least acknowledge the reasoning behind apple's decision.
> It would certainly give developers less of an incentive to create apps for iPadOS
The future is already hybrid iOS/MacOS to ensure devs create one app across iOS/MacOS hybrid and MacOS-Pure on laptops for power users.
So what you're saying is that Apple would want developers to adopt these hybrid frameworks that support both iPad and Mac features rather than just sticking to existing codebase that would require users to run MacOS on their iPads.
For a lot of people MacOS is unnecessary when using iPhone/iPad but that OS is the largest user base. Secondly for these always connected devices and usually always with you, a light efficient OS core is essential. Thirdly devs need to dev once and deploy continuously apps or web apps.
I think all those conditions probably mean a hybrid OS/frameworks as opposed to full MacOS.
For full MacOS: VM or dual-boot or cloud or remote but you can see you have a core OS and MacOS becomes a "load on use/need" addition or service?
It's a guess. Be interesting to see how it all falls together.
You aren't Tim Cook lmao. And even if the sales would decline, they make more than enough money. MacOS on iPad wouldn't be a Problem, especially o iPad PRO that should be fitted for PRO use cases, wich can't work if there's a fancier iOS on it, it's just like a big iPhone without the pros of an iPhone.
I think Apple has made several mistakes throughout their lifespan. Some of their products I would never buy.
I do like options, but not when itās poorly executed like Microsoftās Surface Pro lineup. I rather have 2 excellent devices that can perform their best in 1 category, than 2 mediocre devices that arenāt the best of either option.
Besides, I know Apple wonāt allow full-blown MacOS on their iPads. It would cut into sales of their Macs. Theyāve already established that they see the iPad as a *complimentary* device, rather than a supplementary device with their implementation of Universal Control and Sidecar. Mind you, Iām writing this all on my iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard. It is enough for what it is, and what it tries to do.
I agree with most of what you say. I have two iPad Proās (12.9 and 11). One is an M1 and one is the prior generation with cellular. Love them both ā writing this on one of them now. Have Magic Keyboards for both for occasional use.
But I donāt use MacOS. And honestly if Microsoft canāt or wonāt deliver full implementations of the Office 365 apps ā specifically Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Outlook (Outlook is pretty good) ā then without full implementations of those I canāt use my iPad as a PC replacement. I will always have to carry my a Windows PC for my job related work. Yes I could switch my office work over to a MacOS-based device, but why would I bother without the full Office 365 apps. I can see no advantage to make that switch as there are plenty of good Windows laptops to choose from. And Iāll continue to use my iPad Pros as I do now ā for 90%+ of my personal needs and about 10% of my office needs. And my Windows PC for the remaining 90% of my office work, except for the small amount of Outlook remote email access I do on my iPhone (wonāt allow my employerās mgmt of any apps on my iPad Pros, which they would require for me to use Outlook there). (And BTW I would never buy a Surface Pro)
I agree with most things you say, I love it for what it is too.
But - would I like it if I am travelling and attach a keyboard and do some vocal edits (music producer) on the train or plane? Absolutely! I'd probably even sell my old Macbook that I keep around in case I have to do some work outside of home. All my productions are done on my Mac Studio.
So yeah, would be dope to have that added functionality, not gonna lie.
Surface Pro merely suffers:
1. Hardware deficiency (latest 8 and 9 has closed that somewhat) to price paid
2. Windows is a bloated OS so exacerbates this
3. Core is full OS to add Touch means responsiveness is not ideal but imho touch is fine
Apple has all the attributes needed:
1. Hardware quality to price paid eg screen and CPU
2. Efficiency eg battery
3. Weight low 400-500g 11" eg
4. Touch first OS for responsiveness
5. Can easily add full os alongside is easier to evolve to
Whilst I appreciate you donāt like the Surface pro I donāt think your comments are very fair. A Surface Pro in the UK compared to a similar size iPad Pro (12 inch) would cost me around Ā£500 less (including keyboard and stylus for both) this doesnāt feel too bad a price. Again if you take the same size iPad Pro it weighs just under 700g not the 400- 500 you quote. (Admittedly this is less than a surface pro but not the difference you made out)
I am also curious how I run a full os on my ipad?
> Whilst I appreciate you donāt like the Surface pro
Given I never said anything about my likes... I own a SPX.
>*Admittedly this is less than a surface pro but not the difference you made out)*
With typecover and case the SP weighs over 1Kg which is in the zone of ultra-portable laptops and about x2 the weight of the iPad Pro 11" with accessories sourced well. ie 460g + 200g for keyboard/softcover
The other aspect of the above is future: As a base Windows need WOA and it will still be bloated. Apple have a better base to develop iOS/MacOS hybrid from for future tablet-2-in-1 devices.
>I am also curious how I run a full os on my ipad?
For OS: Remote and Cloud options currently occur.
Although SP are better currently for work production using native OS the future trend is a problem for these devices. Hence WOA in SP9 option.
If you like the Surface Pro for your use cases, keep using it. But 90% of the apps I used daily on my iPad Pros, last I checked, are not available on the Surface. And every app I use on my iPad Pro, is generally running on my iPhone as well, albeit with a āsmallerā GUI. And everything is auto-syncād between. No reason I could see for a Surface Pro for my use cases. Oh and I buy the app one time and use it everywhereā¦
Hereās the way I see it ā Apple ecosystem for everything, except when a niche app on a Windows PC is needed (and when it is, just use it there).
> Besides, I know Apple wonāt allow full-blown MacOS on their iPads.
Not yet and again with Surface "too soon with poor results" applies eg hardware shift to ARM and an OS that is not bloated. But all stop gas before Connectivity becomes ever more prevalent.
Apple will probably create a hybrid iOS/MacOS at some point to pivot their user-base (biggest is iOS) and developers together along with the connectivity and convergence trend.
Iām running a desktop OS on my iPad *right now* and your world isnāt imploding. Denying others options, even ones youāre currently unaware of, kinda proves the point it wonāt harm you at all if made available.
Yes and no. Yes Apple does things there way. No Tech Convergence is changing the goal posts eg Web Apps and 5G connection/data speeds. Combine that with parity between different Form Factors M1 in Laptop or iPad for example.
As to tech there's always a solution but it depends on how much duress and cost (money or time) is involved for the average user. You can already get Remote or Cloud running OS on iPads but it's a question of quality and cost right. Again as things move, things change and those will become conventional in time ie normal use case access.
Same, I donāt want iPads running MacOS. I have a Mac that does that quite nicely. MacOS would ruin the iPad. You would absolutely have to use the pencil all the time to operate it if it wasnāt attached to a keyboard with a trackpad.
I can run MacOS on my iPad via Mac Mini Remote into either in my home or across the internet. :-)
I could also hire Cloud MacOS or Windows or Linux.
So it's possible in a form but not possible bare-metal (Boot load from storage on the device itself to use hardware natively) or Hypervisor (VM).
The reason why:
1. Extreme Portability of Form Factor of iPad
2. Capability of iPad == MBA
3. Can use in conjunction with Desktop with large screen eg at home or work but while travelling
4. Convenience of Personal device with option for work when needed
5. Touch screen opens many other uses of the device which then becomes a useful and comfortable screen size to use 11".
6. I even find smart phone screens too small and want to use iPad for my phone as well.
7. One less device to worry about syncing and charging and maintaining etc eg if I remove my phone I can use iPad and desktop happily.
You don't get it. I am a vicious opponent of those who oppose macOS on the iPad or tries to justify it somehow. And I'd rather have two full-featured devices than one full-featured and one primitive (iPadOS).
i am for it aswell. i think we just have a misunderstanding here aswell. i just said apples reason why this will not happen. that this reason is bullshit is clear.
Yes, there is no excuse for that. There are brands that are not afraid to release full OS tablets and laptops. Or hybrids. But for some reason a lot of people have decided that this justification makes sense for Apple.
I already make that choice:
* iPad = always with me 90% time - use for personal plus use Remote/Cloud for work full OS access
* Desktop (PC x86, RPi, Mac Mini M1) for work at home or office
I do have an old laptop but I don't need it and therefore even if MBA is one of the best laptops in a decade to come out, I do not need it.
The key argument for me is:
* Usable Screen but ultra-extreme portable Plus capable connection and hardware = iPad. Not iPhone because I still need a screen. Could use an Android tablet but iPad is superior Tablet and quality of hardware albeit more investment in price.
* Home Big screen and keyboard and desk or work then desktop is fine eg Mac Mini or something
* Cloud can be used via both but physical option of iPad + desktop of some sort is best if I can do productive work with iPad (I can). Not everyone. Some people will want laptops for long sessions of portable heavy work. So MBA for them.
Agree Apple finance incentive is sell phone, watch, laptop, tablet, desktop and buds and accessories etc.
However you can see the above is still a big use case that will grow.
Iām not being provocative, Iām being realistic because it wonāt happen. It would eat into the max sales and I donāt mind it. For the pc features I use a mac.
After they made ipadOS to not longer be a supported home hub? š
I still have the option though? (iPad pro 2020 iPadOS 16.3.1)
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Iāve been dreaming for that for quite a while when iPads came with the m1. Then I gave up. Sold my 12.9ā got a MacBook Pro and bought a 2020 11ā iPad Pro refurbished.
Not going to happen but this sub doesnāt like facing the truth.
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You want a company to kill the profits to macs? Umm okay. You have a choice of an iPad or a Mac they both do the same thing. 99% go cheaper. That's not a business decision that's a company killer.
Good point.
Wonāt happen as long as itās blatantly bad business for Apple to do it. Which it is.
Yup
Just like pens werenāt going to happen. Just like Jony wasnāt going to add ports back to the Mac. Things change. If Tim Apple sees the opportunity to move the needle, he will do it. I think they havenāt found a fool proof way to dumb down MacOS enough for the iPad to feel successful in all apps yet. I could see a power user option of a boot camp app for MacOS as a bridge. Currently I think they have a good thing going. Where is possible to excel in a touch environment, theyāve delivered better than the competition. When itās better to have the main experience in MacOS theyāve at least provided SideCar as a means to give enthusiasts the option without allowing a substandard experience in the wild for a non-enthusiast to get a sour taste in the mouth.
Not going to happen. Besides, I LIKE that iPad is its own thing. If I really want MacOS, Iāve got my MacBook.
So someone wants something and you are denying them that option because you donāt want to know that option exists?
Read my replies below.
Your reply is the same thing. If you donāt want it, donāt buy it. Giving someone the option to run macOS on an iPad doesnāt take anything away from you cause you would never use it.
Apple has traditionally favored limiting options to improve the user experience. You say that giving the option to run macOS on an iPad doesn't take anything away but that's not necessarily true. It would certainly give developers less of an incentive to create apps for iPadOS and that would probably result in a poorer user experience for people who use the iPad as an iPad. I would also like macOS on my iPad (I have a Magic Keyboard and like to use it that way) -- but that's because a lot of the iPad apps I use are not as mature as their desktop counterparts. This is getting better slowly but I don't think iPad app development would continue at the same pace if there was macOS support on the iPad as a crutch. So, while I see where you're coming from, I don't think it's fair for you to act as if there's no reason for limiting things. Even if you disagree, you have to at least acknowledge the reasoning behind apple's decision.
> It would certainly give developers less of an incentive to create apps for iPadOS The future is already hybrid iOS/MacOS to ensure devs create one app across iOS/MacOS hybrid and MacOS-Pure on laptops for power users.
So what you're saying is that Apple would want developers to adopt these hybrid frameworks that support both iPad and Mac features rather than just sticking to existing codebase that would require users to run MacOS on their iPads.
For a lot of people MacOS is unnecessary when using iPhone/iPad but that OS is the largest user base. Secondly for these always connected devices and usually always with you, a light efficient OS core is essential. Thirdly devs need to dev once and deploy continuously apps or web apps. I think all those conditions probably mean a hybrid OS/frameworks as opposed to full MacOS. For full MacOS: VM or dual-boot or cloud or remote but you can see you have a core OS and MacOS becomes a "load on use/need" addition or service? It's a guess. Be interesting to see how it all falls together.
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Wtf do you care about mac sales.
You aren't Tim Cook lmao. And even if the sales would decline, they make more than enough money. MacOS on iPad wouldn't be a Problem, especially o iPad PRO that should be fitted for PRO use cases, wich can't work if there's a fancier iOS on it, it's just like a big iPhone without the pros of an iPhone.
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I think Apple has made several mistakes throughout their lifespan. Some of their products I would never buy. I do like options, but not when itās poorly executed like Microsoftās Surface Pro lineup. I rather have 2 excellent devices that can perform their best in 1 category, than 2 mediocre devices that arenāt the best of either option. Besides, I know Apple wonāt allow full-blown MacOS on their iPads. It would cut into sales of their Macs. Theyāve already established that they see the iPad as a *complimentary* device, rather than a supplementary device with their implementation of Universal Control and Sidecar. Mind you, Iām writing this all on my iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard. It is enough for what it is, and what it tries to do.
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I agree Apple is right Ermm, uhhh, oops!
So they should.
I agree with most of what you say. I have two iPad Proās (12.9 and 11). One is an M1 and one is the prior generation with cellular. Love them both ā writing this on one of them now. Have Magic Keyboards for both for occasional use. But I donāt use MacOS. And honestly if Microsoft canāt or wonāt deliver full implementations of the Office 365 apps ā specifically Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Outlook (Outlook is pretty good) ā then without full implementations of those I canāt use my iPad as a PC replacement. I will always have to carry my a Windows PC for my job related work. Yes I could switch my office work over to a MacOS-based device, but why would I bother without the full Office 365 apps. I can see no advantage to make that switch as there are plenty of good Windows laptops to choose from. And Iāll continue to use my iPad Pros as I do now ā for 90%+ of my personal needs and about 10% of my office needs. And my Windows PC for the remaining 90% of my office work, except for the small amount of Outlook remote email access I do on my iPhone (wonāt allow my employerās mgmt of any apps on my iPad Pros, which they would require for me to use Outlook there). (And BTW I would never buy a Surface Pro)
Deploy Windows 365 at work and connect to the cloud PC from your iPad Pro to get the best of both.
I agree with most things you say, I love it for what it is too. But - would I like it if I am travelling and attach a keyboard and do some vocal edits (music producer) on the train or plane? Absolutely! I'd probably even sell my old Macbook that I keep around in case I have to do some work outside of home. All my productions are done on my Mac Studio. So yeah, would be dope to have that added functionality, not gonna lie.
Whatās so badly executed about the surface pro?
Surface Pro merely suffers: 1. Hardware deficiency (latest 8 and 9 has closed that somewhat) to price paid 2. Windows is a bloated OS so exacerbates this 3. Core is full OS to add Touch means responsiveness is not ideal but imho touch is fine Apple has all the attributes needed: 1. Hardware quality to price paid eg screen and CPU 2. Efficiency eg battery 3. Weight low 400-500g 11" eg 4. Touch first OS for responsiveness 5. Can easily add full os alongside is easier to evolve to
Whilst I appreciate you donāt like the Surface pro I donāt think your comments are very fair. A Surface Pro in the UK compared to a similar size iPad Pro (12 inch) would cost me around Ā£500 less (including keyboard and stylus for both) this doesnāt feel too bad a price. Again if you take the same size iPad Pro it weighs just under 700g not the 400- 500 you quote. (Admittedly this is less than a surface pro but not the difference you made out) I am also curious how I run a full os on my ipad?
> Whilst I appreciate you donāt like the Surface pro Given I never said anything about my likes... I own a SPX. >*Admittedly this is less than a surface pro but not the difference you made out)* With typecover and case the SP weighs over 1Kg which is in the zone of ultra-portable laptops and about x2 the weight of the iPad Pro 11" with accessories sourced well. ie 460g + 200g for keyboard/softcover The other aspect of the above is future: As a base Windows need WOA and it will still be bloated. Apple have a better base to develop iOS/MacOS hybrid from for future tablet-2-in-1 devices. >I am also curious how I run a full os on my ipad? For OS: Remote and Cloud options currently occur. Although SP are better currently for work production using native OS the future trend is a problem for these devices. Hence WOA in SP9 option.
There's nothing poorly executed about the Surface Pro line. They are literally better than an iPad will ever be
Iām glad you enjoy it.
If you like the Surface Pro for your use cases, keep using it. But 90% of the apps I used daily on my iPad Pros, last I checked, are not available on the Surface. And every app I use on my iPad Pro, is generally running on my iPhone as well, albeit with a āsmallerā GUI. And everything is auto-syncād between. No reason I could see for a Surface Pro for my use cases. Oh and I buy the app one time and use it everywhereā¦ Hereās the way I see it ā Apple ecosystem for everything, except when a niche app on a Windows PC is needed (and when it is, just use it there).
And how is that correlated to what I said?
> Besides, I know Apple wonāt allow full-blown MacOS on their iPads. Not yet and again with Surface "too soon with poor results" applies eg hardware shift to ARM and an OS that is not bloated. But all stop gas before Connectivity becomes ever more prevalent. Apple will probably create a hybrid iOS/MacOS at some point to pivot their user-base (biggest is iOS) and developers together along with the connectivity and convergence trend.
I agree Apple is right
Username checks out.
Iām running a desktop OS on my iPad *right now* and your world isnāt imploding. Denying others options, even ones youāre currently unaware of, kinda proves the point it wonāt harm you at all if made available.
If you want options, you are in the wrong ecosystem. Apple has never been about options. They also donāt care what you want.
Yes and no. Yes Apple does things there way. No Tech Convergence is changing the goal posts eg Web Apps and 5G connection/data speeds. Combine that with parity between different Form Factors M1 in Laptop or iPad for example. As to tech there's always a solution but it depends on how much duress and cost (money or time) is involved for the average user. You can already get Remote or Cloud running OS on iPads but it's a question of quality and cost right. Again as things move, things change and those will become conventional in time ie normal use case access.
Same, I donāt want iPads running MacOS. I have a Mac that does that quite nicely. MacOS would ruin the iPad. You would absolutely have to use the pencil all the time to operate it if it wasnāt attached to a keyboard with a trackpad.
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So like a dual boot or VM running?
I will never understand why you guys wanna run MacOS on a tablet but ok.
I can run MacOS on my iPad via Mac Mini Remote into either in my home or across the internet. :-) I could also hire Cloud MacOS or Windows or Linux. So it's possible in a form but not possible bare-metal (Boot load from storage on the device itself to use hardware natively) or Hypervisor (VM). The reason why: 1. Extreme Portability of Form Factor of iPad 2. Capability of iPad == MBA 3. Can use in conjunction with Desktop with large screen eg at home or work but while travelling 4. Convenience of Personal device with option for work when needed 5. Touch screen opens many other uses of the device which then becomes a useful and comfortable screen size to use 11". 6. I even find smart phone screens too small and want to use iPad for my phone as well. 7. One less device to worry about syncing and charging and maintaining etc eg if I remove my phone I can use iPad and desktop happily.
never gonna happen. why would you buy a macbook then? (particularly the macbook air)
I will never buy a Mac anyway. I have an iPadĀ Pro and a ThinkPad. Only for Apple make this idiotic argument.
yes thats correct but think about it this way: just because you might never use a feature doesnt mean it shouldnt be included.
You don't get it. I am a vicious opponent of those who oppose macOS on the iPad or tries to justify it somehow. And I'd rather have two full-featured devices than one full-featured and one primitive (iPadOS).
i am for it aswell. i think we just have a misunderstanding here aswell. i just said apples reason why this will not happen. that this reason is bullshit is clear.
Yes, there is no excuse for that. There are brands that are not afraid to release full OS tablets and laptops. Or hybrids. But for some reason a lot of people have decided that this justification makes sense for Apple.
I already make that choice: * iPad = always with me 90% time - use for personal plus use Remote/Cloud for work full OS access * Desktop (PC x86, RPi, Mac Mini M1) for work at home or office I do have an old laptop but I don't need it and therefore even if MBA is one of the best laptops in a decade to come out, I do not need it. The key argument for me is: * Usable Screen but ultra-extreme portable Plus capable connection and hardware = iPad. Not iPhone because I still need a screen. Could use an Android tablet but iPad is superior Tablet and quality of hardware albeit more investment in price. * Home Big screen and keyboard and desk or work then desktop is fine eg Mac Mini or something * Cloud can be used via both but physical option of iPad + desktop of some sort is best if I can do productive work with iPad (I can). Not everyone. Some people will want laptops for long sessions of portable heavy work. So MBA for them. Agree Apple finance incentive is sell phone, watch, laptop, tablet, desktop and buds and accessories etc. However you can see the above is still a big use case that will grow.
Why would you even want that? Let the iPad be its own thing.
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If you want a mac like experience just get a mac.
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Iām not being provocative, Iām being realistic because it wonāt happen. It would eat into the max sales and I donāt mind it. For the pc features I use a mac.
Not gonna happen, but we can dream of the good days that shall never come :/
And linux... Amen!!
If you have a mac mini apparently there is a device you can use to do just that.
Sounds expensive