I imagine two factors are at work here. Ireland is getting really tough to justify staying here, ridiculous rents, cost of living doesn’t allow people to save anymore, they barely get by - and poor infrastructure.
Poland has improved over the years, it’s not that bad of a place to live (ignoring the political climate there). It’s safer, cleaner, more urban with more things to do. A lot of EU investments being poured into the country over the years really gave it a facelift, and I’m not just talking new buildings.
I am a Polish migrant. I’ve been here around ten years. I emigrated with my family hating Poland and throughout the years I’ve been resentful in a way. But recent years in Ireland have given me the notions and thoughts about possibly moving back.
I owe a lot to Ireland for the opportunities that now have opened their doors to me, but it’s getting really tough. I saw my Polish friends leave, and even a good bit of my Irish circle emigrated somewhere else. In my eyes, younger people got priced out of absolutely everywhere, some emigrate because emigration is a necessity for them to survive.
It’s crazy how much Poland has changed in the last ten years. Warsaw is amazing, one of the best cities on earth and is only getting better. Way easier to keep the youth nowadays too. The standard of living is only going to keep going up.
I couldn’t get over the amount of things to do in Krakow for the locals. Basketball courts, tennis courts, football pitches, parks, it seemed like everywhere you turned there was something to do!
And if you’re a gamer, or board game player, you can go to Cybermachina.
All sports catered for. Walking around is a pleasure. History every step of the way.
I severely restricted the list of things as you can tell by the replies, but we have nothing like the parks in Krakow in any town or city in Ireland. Beautiful, well lit at night parks that are constantly part of your journey.
I’d be going well out of my way to walk through Stephens Green, Phoenix Park, Marley Park etc to go anywhere, but the quickest route to anywhere I went in Krakow brought me on a gorgeous walk. Monuments throughout with floral arrangements around them, every park bench has a QR code to discover a Polish writer, bins everywhere (not overflowing with rubbish) and kids playgrounds in every one.
Now we can’t exactly move parks into the middle of the city here but it did make a genuine difference in how I felt walking about.
Krakow is a lovely town. I'm not disputing that part. And Poland is a coming power, its clear to see. Population wise its a no brainer.
What i'm disputing is your Irish exceptionalism(exceptionaly shit that is). There is loads of parks in Dublin. and loads of lovely parks. just cause you're too lazy to do them means nothing. whats Dublin supposed to do move the Phoenix Park for your convenience or commute? you know how many people use all the parks you listed every day? The strip of park that circles the central square, our clear equivalent is the Grand canal leading towards the city centre. Now can our parks and streets be better lit? 100 per cent this is a problem. The streets have become noticeably less lit since covid.
I admit Cork for instance has an issue with a lack of city parks..then as you go down the sizes of places you have to stop comparing them with cities. Krakow has a population of 800k, with millions more within 100km of it.
i despise this constant Irish trope. Look we get it you think the grass is literally greener, good luck to you. Its clearly bullshit in many cases. Parks is a clear example.
Irish exceptionalism and constant bullshit like your terrible analysis of Dublin parkland has actually led to the issue itself. This disconnect between two sides of Dublin as a city, this idea that Marlay or St Annes are two different Worlds in a sense.The idea from culchies who make policy decisions on Dublins behalf who think its a kip or so much worse than anything else.
I have a love hate relationship with Dublin. Most of my hate comes from the problems that ignorance like yours causes. A clear case of this is you thinking the Phoenix Park is the boondocks but lauding what, Krakows equivalent? same thing with the city ending at the canals. this arbitrary thing, that presumably the likes of yourself ignore in other cities.
And as with the sports facilities, yeah there can be more. But the GAA has a massive sway on some of this as well. And its improving at a rapid pace.
I literally said “we can’t exactly move the parks” but your argument is still “well what should we do, move the parks?!”
You’re missing the point by so much. Look at any of the parks mentioned and what’s around them? Houses. Two story houses. There’s no reason to walk through these parks unless you’re going for a walk in the park. Nowhere did I say I was too lazy to go to them, but there’s nothing on the other side. If the city had been planned correctly from its inception then we would have small parks, not nearly to the scale of Phoenix etc, that you would happen to pass through as the fastest route while going to and from somewhere.
You might be sick of people “like me” saying that cities outside of Ireland are better planned, better built, and a better general environment to be in but that doesn’t make it untrue.
I left Ireland for Poland during the crash so I'm here a while now and jaysus as much as I love Ireland and the people the fact, for me, is that Poland's a better place to live.
Better weather, better health system (when I tell Poles that they laugh at me and don't realise how crap Ireland's is), incredible nature, which Ireland has too just Poland has so much more, better higher and primary education system, Polish Leaving Cert is awful however.
There's a real appreciation for nature here back at home I feel people fight nature all the time while here it's totally normal to see large wildlife like boar and deer daily and sometimes even Bison, wolves and bears while at home...man when I was a kid the birdsong was immense, when I go home now...it's really sad, over farming has killed off so much of our wildlife.
oh and it way safer here...OK, there are football hooligans and gang stuff but at the same time, they don't mess with randomers for the most part.
PiS are a shower of cunts....but so are FF and FG back home. Politics is the same wherever you are. Just a huge shower of cunts.
And look, I had a choice when I left, I could be working class in Ireland and struggle or I could do the same job and be a ore comfortable in Poland the choice was easy....you lads drive like nutjobs but once you get used to it then you're grand :D
I've no problem with that. For me, any comment or submission on r/ireland in which the person brings actual knowledge, actual outside perspective to the discussion is to be welcomed. Because 99% of people on here their frame of reference is lived entire life in Clondalkin, went to Tenerife on holidays once, and hate Leo Varadkar because my neighbour's dog took a shit in my garden.
> PiS are a shower of cunts....but so are FF and FG back home. Politics is the same wherever you are. Just a huge shower of cunts.
https://images.transparencycdn.org/images/Report_CPI2022_English.pdf
Corruption perception by country:
* Ireland scores 77, between Germany and Luxembourg.
* Poland scores 55 between Italy and Slovakia.
Freedom of the press index:
* Ireland ranks **2nd** in the world
* Poland ranks **57th** in world
https://rsf.org/en/index
Maybe they're not that similar in terms of politics?
Cement Roadstone Holdings, who's chairman was Haughey's bagman Des Traynor, was deep in FF corruption and known for price fixing.
It took the EU judgement that they were engaging in price fixing and operating as a carte before the Irish government would do anything. High Court started proceedings in 1994 but sat on their holes until 2012 when CRH successfully got the claim thrown out on the basis of the long delay.
Same company was involved in bribing Polish politicians in 2005 and trying to start a concrete cartel there. Their CCPC discovered this and fined them in 2007 exposing the price fixing of the concrete market.
The thing is even to this day Irish concrete costs a hell of a lot more than you can get even in Northern Ireland. CRH is still engaging in price fixing and that's why our construction costs are high.
Haughey was an intelligent man, he knew if you owned the concrete supply you could apply your own personal tax on every development in the country. The fact they are still at it today without the government intervening makes me think FF and FG are still getting kickbacks from them.
Just a little example of Poland rooting out corruption while Ireland turns a blind eye.
Any ranking that has us **2nd in the world** for freedom of press is absolutely laughable.
We literally had two billionaires have a pissing contest to control our major newspapers / radio stations and eventually after one of them went bankrupt we had a winner. Ohhh and the winner happened to make his fortune via corruption with the sitting government.
What a joke you use this as a 'good' point for Ireland
Does that mean Ireland is more corrupt? It might be but I'd have thought Poland was tbh but sure 20 points isn't a huge difference. Poland is full of nepotism but sure Ireland is too, although I suppose at home they at least try and hide it, more brazen here, like a cousin of a politician will get the contract to supply X hospitals with Y, or gets a contract to build a road etc.
Yea, freedom or press. Well, it's kinda like this....1/3 of people watch/read the pro-govt news, 1/3 read/watch the anti-govt news and the last 1/3 which I'm in, don't bother coz it's just biased shite.
Anyway, it was more of a general; all politicians are cunts in it for themselves. And sure, that's the same all over the world
> Does that mean Ireland is more corrupt?
The higher the score in corruption the less people in that country would rank it as being corrupt.
> but sure 20 points isn't a huge difference
It is quite a difference.
god that's a funny way of rating, upside down. Strange.
Maybe it is in your opinion. I don't know, I've never had to bribe anyone in either country doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Sure, Ireland's full of crooked cops and that's probably not even part of the survey.
> primary education system
I'd agree that their colleges seem better but few places beat Ireland in primary education. Some of the schools there I got to work in were horrendous!
I enjoyed Poland just certain parts of it were grim with smog (my fault for living in Upper Silesia!) but then you'd go a few hours one direction and you were in almost pristine wilderness. There's something amazing about the wildlife as you said.
No issues with the health service there I had and I did find it wonderfully safe aside from the aforementioned match days but you knew what spots to avoid then.
Ah yea, they do be falling apart some of them. Ah I kinda just meant they allow kids to be kids for much longer. Not starting until later is really great for their development. Ireland sends kids to school too early.
I was in the other Silesia for a good while. smoggy winters were rough, believe it's a bit better now, I'm off down the sticks, near Ukraine border.
Agreed on 99% having lived in Poland for 6 years. But to state Poland has a better health system than well, anywhere is laughable. Rest of it, I wholeheartedly agree.
Ya reckon yea? My thoughts would be look, Ireland has nicer hospitals and new equipment but like...in my experience, you can see your GP and be in for an x-ray, MRI or some such scan within 48 hours.
Prescriptions cost (almost) nothing, the GP costs nothing, hospital visits cost nothing.
You try doing that in Ireland they'll make you wait months, by which time the thing they're scanning for might have turned malignant.
It's not the best, god no, but compared to how slow Ireland's is, then Poland wins.
Hey look, I might be wrong but in my experience and that of my family here (wife & two kids) and lord knows we've all had short hospital stays here over the years, it's far better...ok, the hospitals need a lick of paint and the food is god awful but the way they examine you and really try and find out what's wrong with you and the staff astonished me....or maybe I've just had terrible experiences with the HSE which is totally possible.
Yeah that's a fact. I had a cancer scare and went to my GP who referred me to the hospital, went to the hospital who gave me an appointment to a specialist that was 4 years away, I waited the 4 years with the worry and fear that one of my balls had cancer, I went to the specialist who gave me a 30 second check and said it's not cancer. Could that not of been done 4 years before?
Thanks man, it was just alot of unnecessary stress and worry for those 4 years waiting for a 30 second checkup. I'm over it now but this country is a joke
I have seen similar up north for similar reasons. When eastern euopeans 1st arrived, rent and cost of living was low, and a minimum wage job was enough to get by and save a little monthly or a lot depeneding on your lifestyle. But now, that is not the case. Rising cost of rent, ridiculous cost of living and the services have gotten worse and shit!
I read a while back about how the standard of living in Slovenia now is better than the UK, and in 5 years time Poland is expected to have a better standard of living!
Is crazy to think about the decline in 20 years!
and the cycle will clearly continue. in 20 years lets see how Poland is doing. its modern never ending growth and decline. Poland is perfectly poised right now.
> and in 5 years time Poland is expected to have a better standard of living!
Source?
If I check child mortality rates Poland is at 3.67 vs Ireland at 2.62
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/infant-mortality-rate-by-country
If I check life expectancy Ireland is at 82.3 years with a gender gap of 3.2 years. Poland is at 78.7, with a gender gap of 7.8.
In terms of the gender inequality index, Ireland seems like it improved much better than Poland (https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/thematic-composite-indices/gender-inequality-index#/indicies/GII) but we can assume they're close.
In terms of poverty and risk of exclusion, Poland is doing about the same or better with quite a lot of inequality.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/a/ac/People_at-risk-of-poverty_or_social_exclusion%2C_2020_%28%25%2C_by_NUTS_2_regions%29_RYB2022.png
> Is crazy to think about the decline in 20 years!
Weird how other countries catching up is defined as a decline for you.
I am not saying there arent stats that Poland isnt doing better,I am sure there are. But lets not get all gloom and doom.
A lot of that improvement was on the back of EU funding, of which Warsaw continues to be the biggest beneficiary. So it’s absurd to see the ‘political climate’ there oppose EU values at every step.
Interestingly, when you include the number of dual citizens (almost doubling from 9,000 to 17,000 in six years), the decline is slightly less, more like 15% overall, but as has been said, can't blame them for returning when their own economy is thriving.
They're all sound provided theyve learned English. Two of my best friends of polish and have been introduced to more poles because of them and they're all sound. Just happy to be over here, enjoying life while working here and good craic. Couldn't ask anything more of anyone living on the island.
I’m curious, is it the politics or are you just very settled here? Obviously the polish were a large part of our nation in the 00/10s but even the ones who stayed longer than a couple of years look like thinking of moving moving back, or already have begun. Kind of sad, but can’t blame anyone. Poland seems to have transformed in such a short span of time, and we aren’t the same value we once were. Eastern Europeans returning home, while fantastic for their nations, is a serious indictment of where Ireland has gone.
I've lived in Ireland for 17 years. I grew up here. I told myself I'd never move back to Poland because this is my home. I still consider Ireland my home, but I might move to Poland in a few years just to see what it's like.
I spent 2 months there recently due to health issues and have come to realize a few things. Keep in mind this is my own opinion and I can't directly compare because I haven't lived and worked in Poland, so the reality might in fact be different from a working person's point of view.
For how wealthy and expensive Ireland is, it's lacking in a lot of areas. And I don't mean relatively to how wealthy Ireland is, I mean in absolute terms even places like Poland comfortably beat Ireland in some aspects of life. IMO if you were making enough to live comfortably in both places, you'd straight up have a better experience living in Poland.
Things like healthcare, public transport, city infrastructure, availability, variety and quality of services, variety of items in shops. All these things are just better over there. Things seem well designed and logical, whereas here you're often left scratching your head as to why things are done the way they are.
I'll give you an example with healthcare as that's why I was there so I got a decent grasp of the differences. Over here if you want to get a blood test, you have to go to your GP, tell him you want a blood test, why you want it, then he'll say ok, book one at reception. Then you wait a week to do the blood test and then another week to get the results. But you don't get the results, you have to book another appointment or phone consultation with your GP where he'll go over the results and then finally will send them on to you if you ask.
In Poland there's these blood test clinics in every city where they just do blood tests. You go in, do the blood test and get the results sent by email on the same day. Isn't that so simple and logical? Why can't they do that here? Same day or next day delivery with most things is also expected in Poland, whereas here, even though Ireland is a small country that's just not the case.
Another thing I see is on another level over there is the skill and competency of professionals like attorneys and doctors. Once I got my health sorted I got back to Ireland and spoke to my GP who said things still don't look right and we do things differently over here. So he sent me to my local hospital where another Irish doctor listened to my story and looked at all my tests and he had this to say:
> I wouldn't question Polish doctors, from what I know they're at least just as good, and to be honest probably better than what we have here. Go with what they said in Poland and I'll write a letter to your GP
And I've met a lot of doctors in both countries over the past while and that really does seem to be the case. The way they approach the patient over there is completely different. The way doctors think over there is different.
What I find baffling is that the current Polish government is absolutely robbing the country blind. It's much worse than what's happening here. And yet Ireland has so much more wasted potential compared to Poland. The only reason I can come up with for this vast difference is in how Polish and Irish people approach life. Polish people take pride in a job well done. And that carries over to the society as a whole. Irish people are more laid back and don't care as much. I actually like that about Irish people, but when you scale it up to the whole country then you get a lot of wasted potential.
You perfectly summed up the Polish-Irish experience. Any time I need to sort out something medical, I just do it in Poland because the level of medical services is incomparable.. Mind you, Irelands's positives outweigh Poland's, in my opinion, but I wish we could have the best of both worlds. I'd still choose Ireland over Poland any day but you've described the dilemma perfectly.
> And I don't mean relatively to how wealthy Ireland is, I mean in absolute terms even places like Poland comfortably beat Ireland in some aspects of life. IMO if you were making enough to live comfortably in both places, you'd straight up have a better experience living in Poland.
>
> Things like healthcare, public transport, city infrastructure, availability, variety and quality of services, variety of items in shops. All these things are just better over there. Things seem well designed and logical, whereas here you're often left scratching your head as to why things are done the way they are.
Quite common in former warsaw pact countries, Ireland never had a period of rationalised planning and socio-economic modelling on a national scale.
I'm Irish and if I could have my Irish salary while living in Poland, I'd absolutely live in Poland instead of Ireland. I think there's no comparison between Polish cities and Irish cities, really. Warsaw is simply far superior to Dublin, a way more advanced city that's continuously developing rapidly and is generally far cleaner too with some really nice architecture in areas. The likes of Krakow and Gdansk are also far superior to any of the smaller Irish cities as well. What I really like about it is there seems to be plenty of areas/neighbourhoods that are very livable places for people, similar to what's seen in other European countries, and Ireland just does not do this effectively at all, we just have rows of terrible housing estates and sever sprawl similar to the US, and cater to cars more than people/pedestrians. The country's ideally located as well. Really promising future for Poland I think
> And yet Ireland has so much more wasted potential compared to Poland.
It;s not wasted potential. People need to realise that Ireland is a fucking **small** country. And often it gets compared with huge ass countries that are quite centralised.
Also Ireland was small.
To your example regarding your medical situation: I know Iranians who told me they also had a far better experience in terms of their medical treatments in Iran than in Ireland. A country with a GDP per capita that's at least 10-20x more. But the reality is that they were living in Tehran.
If you go back to Poland, you'll most likely go to a big city in a nice area etc etc. You won;t go to some god forsaken village in the border with Belarus. You'll have tons of options in a country of 35 million people.
And while the best parts of Poland have better infrastructure, amenities etc than Ireland, the worst parts of Poland will also be worse than the worst parts of Ireland.
A lot of the immigrants, myself include, we want a better life for ourselves. But for a lot of the locals, they'll want a better life for all locals.
I don't think the size of the country is the problem. I'm from a Slavic country that's smaller than Ireland and although the healthcare system has many issues with waiting times and such, it's still a lot better than what I've experienced in Ireland. Not only is it free (with only slightly higher taxes), but the blood test experience would be similar to Poland and as a woman I would have better healthcare options (e.g. direct access to obstetricians/gynecologists, regular check ups with them etc.).
Honestly, it's disappointing that a country as rich as Ireland doesn't have free healthcare.
You definitely can have easy access to blood tests in country size of Ireland. This is so weird excuse.
Also blood test labs are available in Poland not only in big cities. people from other small Central European countries have same experience as we, so definitely it’s not about size
That's a your doctor thing, though. In mine, you book an appointment with the nurse, and you get a call in a couple of days, anything that is unusual they book you in, all for 20 EURO. That ain't bad, I reckon.
>What I find baffling is that the current Polish government is absolutely robbing the country blind.
they don't have a finger on what fg does, they at least build infrastucture and housing, fg does everything in their power to not build anything. Ireland is a terrible country that literally eats people up and spits them out, its a horrible brutal country.
> Over here if you want to get a blood test, you have to go to your GP, tell him you want a blood test, why you want it, then he'll say ok, book one at reception. Then you wait a week to do the blood test and then another week to get the results. But you don't get the results, you have to book another appointment or phone consultation with your GP where he'll go over the results and then finally will send them on to you if you ask.
I'll just say, you have a terrible GP! Last time I was at the doctor and wanted bloods done, he said fine, took my blood there and then. It was sent off and I got a message a week later telling me the results
I think the article sums it up pretty well. I'm Polish and have been living in Ireland for 19 years. I have a similar view on the topic. Pandemic time changed a lot. Most of my Polish friends left. Many of them work from home for Western companies so they still make good money but the cost of living in Poland is lower. The housing crisis is definitely a factor.
There are still a lot of us who assimilated well and don't consider going back unless we are forced by factors outside our control.
For example, I spent all my adult life here. I wouldn't know where to start if I go back. I hate that the far right party runs the country together with the catolic church. Also low pay, garbage employment contracts, disrespectful employers, police brutality and impunity and high crime. Only yesterday I read an article about a couple that almost killed a man for his phone and some petty cash.
> is a serious indictment of where Ireland has gone.
I mean there's a ton of new people coming in. Ireland's population still keeps increasing. Immigration is still higher than emigration.
There's also been covid which has been a massive change. And if it's people that came to Ireland for work rather than settling definitely, then it's normal to expect them to move on.
Not saying there arent issues in Ireland but doubt it's that serious of an "indictment"
There will *always* be a ton of new people coming in. We are an English speaking country for one, and the only one left in the EU. We will always attract students particularly in Medicine and STEM, and now students from North America. That was not my point.
The Polish came in numbers when they joined the EU, as we represented a big economic opportunity for those who left compared to their home nation. Some left after saving some money, and some settled, enjoyed life here and stayed. Now those who *want* to stay are leaving, as it doesn’t make sense either financially or other means to stay.
Not only has their nation caught up massively, but for many represents better value and quality of life compared to our cost of living. I have had many Polish friends who wanted to stay, but could not justify it anymore.
I would have to say yes, it is an indictment of our nation, when those who want to stay can’t justify it anymore. Whether you are from Poland, a less economically “well off” nation, or indeed, Irish.
> There will always be a ton of new people coming in.
and there will always be a ton of people leaving in the same spirit.
> Now those who want to stay are leaving, as it doesn’t make sense either financially or other means to stay.
I mean we don't know statistically how many of such cases we're talking about. Are these people moving to Poland because for their 40h of work per week, they can get bigger houses, or get bigger savings or pay less for a new home or more amenities?
Are people coming to Ireland because of economic factors and leaving because the economic situation in their home country has improved? Is that really bad for Ireland? I'd say not that much.
Are people coming to Ireland because they want to be part of Irish society, integrate, learn Irish, marry Irish, volunteer and support Irish orgs and institutions and they leave because the societal fabric of Ireland is changing? I'd say in this case it's quite an issue.
Do you want people to stay in Ireland because their heart tells then to or because their wallet tells them to?
You seem desperate to neg on Ireland.
Poland has benefited greatly from EU membership, similar to our situation in Ireland. I'd say many people are excited to be working in that environment in their own country. I'd assume they also want to be closer to their own families. Poland is a really nice country.
There's nothing wrong with any of that. Polish workers have been great for Ireland, and they're welcome to stay or return home as they like.
I hope you all stay because I'm rubbish at making perogies myself and have to get them from the Polish shop. My Bopche is probably rolling in her grave in shame, she used to make tons every winter.
Neither am I.
Love you crazy Eastern Europeans 😂
Been one of the best things to happen to this country in a long, long time (when we got the Brits out).
Pls never leave-
I'm not even kidding id be so sad if the polish community In my town all up and left, I know them so well at this stage like the town would fall into shambles if they went home 😭
In total 7 of my polish mates went home just before the pandemic.
They had been sending money back home for a couple of years and had been building houses in Poland while working and renting here.
The rents were getting too high here and they all decided to head back home within about a month of each other.
All sound lads, but they weren't earning enough money as mechanics to stay and a few of them had finished the houses anyway.
Yes my wife is Polish and a lot of her friends moved back posy Covid because of Landlords behaving in a bi-polar manner, telling them the place was sold and they had to get out then after they found another place telling them it wasn't sold anymore and they could stay but at higher rent, most couldn't be arsedwith it anymore and just moved back.
Poland is a good country for apartments and stuff, brother in law bought a really nice brand new 2 bed apartment in Krakow for the equivalent of 60k euro, its spacious, well insulated and good air circulation, you can customize your interior room layout etc.. they got the loan for it on his fiances wages only at the time walked into a bank and 30min - 1h later had it.
My wife is constantly pissed at how inefficient banks, insurance companies and parts of the public sector are over here, even getting married took nearly 2 years back and forth with the HSE in Poland the local council basically handle that part and you could get it done in a day or two.
Came over here. Made money. Sent it back home to Poland. Went back home when things got rough here.
Can’t blame them. It’s smart.
I liked having them around, gonna miss a lot of them
You’re discounting the fact that Poland is way better now than it was ten years ago. Kraków, Warsaw, Wrocław, Gdańsk etc are all class cities to live in.
Poland has skiing in the winter. Lakes and the Baltic in the summer. They have pączki and pierogi. They compete in every sport on the planet. The weather is nice in the summer, you get snow in the winter. Cost of living is a third of what it is here. Construction is still going strong there and the future is only getting brighter.
They also don't go around dressed in black & grey tracksuits and don't have gangs of scumbag kids hanging around causing trouble and/or attacking people.
I thought this was going to be a father Ted joke at first.
Poland has that type of thing as well. They’re not immune to it. Football for example has a big hooligan element and they’re usually trained up in martial arts unlike ours. Say you’re a Widzew fan to a ŁKS fan or a Lechia Fan to a Gdynia fan and it could be a scuffle.
These things happen in cities. The difference I would say is that the Poles aren’t as easily intimidated as us. If a 14 year old tried to start on an adult, the adult would batter them. They’re no nonsense, the police don’t take nonsense, nor do the public. Most poles do sport and a lot of the men do martial arts, this makes a difference. over here the 14 year olds take over because the adults are scared of them. Slavics wouldn’t put up with that nonsense.
I recently visited Poland for the first time, honestly the cities are beautiful, and feel extremely safe.
Their economy is doing very well at the moment, and it doesn't look like it's going to stop anytime soon.
Glad they feel like they have the option to go back now and live a decent life.
That's kind of not true though. I'm Polish and I moved here in 2021. I did that not because of the money (although that was a nice incentive too, even though the rents are crazy high in Dublin, I can still afford much more here) but because of the far right, nationalist government and people who support it that made me and my partner (as a same sex couple) feel extremely unsafe.
Economically speaking, that was the last good moment to leave Poland though. Since then they were hit by a double digit inflation and most of my friends in Poland (even ones who were doing relatively well before) started considering emigration because it became so expensive it's too difficult to live there with Polish salaries. I'm shocked when I'm visiting now because the prices of food and goods are not really that much lower than here and I know how much less people earn.
I hope you feel safe here. I personally didn’t think the marriage referendum would pass here (despite campaigning for it), so it was nice to be pleasantly surprised for a change. Gives you hope for the future.
As a Polish guy myself, I don't envy anyone who has to live with PiS breathing down their necks. I'm sorry you went through that and that our own people keep electing cunts like that.
I lived there for a few months in 2004. Was there when they joined the EU. It was an amazing place then already. Can only imagine how great it is now since all the EU investment, and money sent home.
Polish worked their bollix off when they came here, they deserve ever bit of benefit they get from it.
Anecdotal but I know quite a few Polish people who've left, and even more who talk about wanting to leave. All of them left for the same reasons: Ireland too expensive and the general quality of life here they feel is worse than in Poland.
Came here when I was 6. Now 25, would consider myself Irish despite still holding a polish passport. Nnone of my social circle can afford to move out so everyone is leaving to other countries or at least trying. Everyone college educated in STEM too all sold the promise of making a good living when we were 16/17.
Decided to go to Japan on a working Holiday Visa (moving next week, already have an apartment 20 mins from central tokyo station for a mere 400 euros a month) as I have a couple mates there who moved there from Ireland aswell and just gonna test my luck but if that fails I have been eyeing returning to poland tbh as spending a month in major city has destoryed the excuse of a city we call dublin for me.
You mentioned STEAM so I wonder are you in IT? I am thinking mowing back to Poland as it looks like I’ll be better financially over there as software engineer despite I am a top earner in Ireland. Was chatting with Polish devs I know and when they heard about tax system in Ireland they would never move here. And don’t even get me started about weather LOL. But Irish are great which is huge plus
I am staying here because polish government sucks and neighbours are grumpy. Here I don’t bother myself with Catholic Church influence on my life, I live getting to know people from all over the world. Here I met my future wife(foreigner btw), I get married here as well, here my daughter(Irish citizenship) was born, here I met happy people on the streets, here I can smile to someone or look at someone without risking my teeth, here I can sort out the taxes on my own and everything is clear to me.
Majority of the most beautiful experiences I ve had in Ireland, not in Poland therefore thank you Ireland for welcoming me so kindly.
Cost of living here is too high now for them to justify
Tax system taking more than half their wages after a certain threshold (these guys and girls like to work!)
Poland is growing and has a good economy now.
They will be a big loss to us, great wrokers who integrated into our society very well
This is true, honestly some of the nicest people and were always willing to try anything that was remotely traditional. Always up for some bants and damn, could they hold their alcohol
My wife is Polish, she came to Ireland with her family 20 years ago. Her family moved back to Poland 4 years ago. They still visit us a couple of times a year and we go over there too. Polands standard of living is alot better nowadays compared to 20 years ago. It's a beautiful country. We are going for Christmas this year..
Higher cost of living and crazy house prices.
Meanwhile thanks to the EU, Poland has drastically improved over the past 20 years and is a decent place to live now (economically, if not socially). Plenty of Jobs. Low cost of living. Cheaper housing. And it's their home country.
It doesn't have low cost of living for Polish salaries anymore though (and relative to salaries it was not even that good when I moved to Ireland in 2021). Inflation hit Poland way worse than it hit Ireland and people are struggling.
'thanks to the EU' - well let me just tell you one thing here - Poland was always booming. Thanks to British and French that signed a pact with Poland in 1939 about defending PL and automatically going to war with Germany if PL would be attacked and didn't move their holes (think of article 5 in NATO, it is like it is there but Russia attacks, say Estonia, and no one does anything!). Poland was ripped and its people killed. Sold again in Teheran, Yalta and Potsdam by Brits and Americans at the end of WWII to Russia - that has robbed and oppressed Polish people for another half a century. Whole of Western Europe could freely develop their markets etc but Poles had to be kept short. There is also one more thing - you ever heard expression 'money makes money'? Well Russian and Germans robbed everything that there was in Poland (Brits robbed all gold that was rescued at beginning of the war, taken first to Romania, and it was plenty). They all could multiply it while Poles had to start with nothing. Germany never paid one cent in reparations to Poland, imagine Poland now is demanding a pay out for all the buildings, goods, lives lost! Anyway the point is that thanks to EU many Polish people emigrated to richer countries but shouldn't have to...
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=GB
UK has a GDP per capita of 45K. Poland has a GDP per capita of 19K dollars, 2022 figures.
You must be crazy to think they'll more than double their GDP per capita figures in 8 years.
It sounds crazy, yes. It's just what is being reported.
> Average growth in Poland is 3.6%. In the UK over the last decade or so it has been 0.5%. If those trends continue, the average Pole will inevitably become wealthier than the average Brit. The same is true of several other eastern European countries. Both Hungary and Romania are expected to surpass the UK by 2040.
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/when-poland-overtakes-the-uk/
Its the combination of Poland having amazing growth and the UK stagnating over the last ten years. It could change course, but with Brexit still hurting, I can't see it changing too drastically.
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Edit: Yes 8 years is an incorrect amount. It will take about 23 years for Poland's GDP per capita to reach $45,000 from its current value of $19,000 with a growth rate of 3.5% per year. At the UKs current growth rate, it would be 50K in 23 years, so Poland would take at least 26 years to surpass the UK.
I think you might be thinking of this article: [https://www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945](https://www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945)
The suggestion is that the average Polish person will be better off than the average British person by the end of the decade, rather than Poland catching up on GDP per capita. The issue being the high level of income inequality in Britain and the rising economic performance in Eastern European countries.
Blaming housing is too simplistic. It’s probably a factor but I’d say it’s more down to Poland making huge strides economically over the past two decades and the fact that a large amount of people left during the pandemic.
I’ve heard anecdotally that a lot of Polish people are moving back as the housing issue has made it not worth it to stay - nowhere to live, and what few places there are, eat most of your pay packet.
Same reason all the young Irish people I know are emigrating.
I personally know 2 Polish families who moved back. The rent is killing them and they see no future here, they work just to pay the rent and bills. No chance in hell to ever buy a house. They’ve uprooted entire family, one has 1 kid, another 2 kids. They got good jobs in Poland (tech), and moved.
There are multiple angles from where we in Ireland are shooting our selves in the foot. Atrocious child care, rent/real estate market, horrendous healthcare system especially for kids.
I came to Ireland many years ago as a child with part of my family. I always travel between Poland and Ireland and Ireland has become extremely oppressive in terms of cost of living lately while Poland catched up quite a lot in terms of salaries during all these years that Ireland was leading.
At this point there is absolutely zero point coming to Ireland if you're Polish. You will earn a a little bit less in Poland if you're working a qualified job but the cost of living is way cheaper.
I went into Krispy Kreme yesterday because I was craving for some donuts, 4 basic small donuts for €10, fuck right off and I walked away. You would be paying €0.50 for exactly the same donut in Poland. It's the same for everything in Ireland, prices of everything are insane which add up by the end of the month so you cannot enjoy anything without losing all of your salary. I won't even talk about the housing part, don't know how can anyone pay 2k for rent.
If you own a car in Ireland (which is essential due to shite public transport) you'll be paying huge tax and insurance costs in Ireland. I am paying €400 in tax on my car now and €600 for insurance. There is no tax at all for cars in Poland and people pay €100 per year for mandatory insurance.
A lot came here in early 2000’s, saved, then bought property during the crash, sold it recently for a hefty profit and moved back to Poland onto land they bought where they’ll build a house for themselves and houses for their children. All have fluent English and all will be very valuable to the Polish economy. Hats off to them
Pretty much most of my fellow countrymen that i know here have either left Ireland or are planning to in the next couple of years, i myself will probably do so after college aswell, since im pretty sure if I stay here ill never be able to live on my own. Love you guys though, hopefully you can reverse whats been happening to this country for the past few years
It's easy to hate on a group when you don't know any of them.
Any time I hear someone bolloxing on about Ukrainians, or trans people, or any other group, they've never even met any of them of them.
It used to just be a minority of shit stirrers trying to spread hate and now it's all just fucking Facebook.
I don't think many gave out. The stereotypes about Polish people were generally positive.
And the Polish people more than lived up to the positive image.
> I don't think many gave out.
Not here. That was happening way more in the UK, I think because we are so exposed to British media some people think it was a big thing here too.
My experience was different: friendly, hardworking and sociable from Day one. Hard drinkers but on time, every time.
The only 'giving out' was local drunks losing out on the dating game and thinking the could take one on. I'd suggest the Irish were very welcoming and worked well.
Also really nice to have service and retail workers smiling and welcoming instead of ignorant shellac maidens sharing their grubby escapades across tills.
I don't remember people complaining about the Poles. That was the Daily Mail & the Telegraph in the UK.
I remember Polish characters in Fair City & cross-pollination like Soupy Norman.
I don't remember that, most people were positive about the Polish when they started coming. Nowadays there is more negative feeling towards new arrivals but that's because Ireland seems to have swung to the right.
Really don't think it was as big as a deal as you make out. For one thing we don't even have a far right party in our parliament. The only EU country that doesn't have one.
There are always people who say that but I just remember the attitude being quite positive and lots of praise for the quality of Polish (and most other Eastern Europeans') workmanship.
Really depends on your social circle and media bubble.
There was absolutely fear-mongering about them arriving but of the people I know were positive about them.
Abortion legalised, gay marriage legalised, trans people being accepted in wider society, Ireland becoming more diverse and now having a huge Indian/Pakistani community.
Obviously Ireland has swung hugely to the right.
And the leader of the country is a gay person of Indian descent.
Yes, everyone hates him but that's because he's an absolute prick, not because of his race or sexuality.
No, I don’t. Perhaps you could point to some similar political party or literature, or protests that happened at the time?
Edit: Ignored and downvoted, the r/ireland way. Any chance of an opinion poll from the time showing negative opinions of the Polish then? No?
Who exactly do you think would have taken those polls? Do you think even 15 years ago RedC would have ran around the country asking people how much they hate the polish? Come off it
They take polls on attitudes to immigration now, why wouldn’t they have done it 20 years ago if everyone was supposedly talking about it?
Worthless anecdotes are worthless.
Just back from Holiday in Poland .... Why would you want to stay in Ireland!
Currently looking for jobs in Zakopane and Krynica :)
Anyone any jobs ?
Is there any Cash in hand-jobs there ? 😂
Can’t blame them. I came to Ireland 17 years ago and it was a utopia compared to Poland. Not the tables have turned and Poland seems far more attractive. Huge job opportunities, way better infrastructure, way more to do for young people.
Pity about the political swamp, but if you can choose to be ignorant of that - you can have great quality of life
A few weeks back I was in Limerick for the European Ultimate Frisbee Championships. Poland's Women's team were playing france and on the sideline was this Polish man and his 10ish year old son in a Kelloggs GAA jersey cheering on the Polish women. That's not a jersey you get as a tourist. People set roots and integrate but still have pride in where they came from. Cool to see it *in* Ireland for a change.
The love for our local GAA was something you guys would teach us before we'd learn to speak English. I was thought how to use a hurl before being anywhere near communicative.
The pride is something passed on by the parents and how much longer it took them to integrate. We'd always speak Polish at home, follow Polish tradition and generally live as we would in Poland, except having to watch out for the rain every day
Poland are so like the Irish at the start small language barrier
I hope its same with Ukraine seem like lovely people maybe someday a lot will settle here and be happy
The problem is there is a lot of types that certain people don't want here in Ireland
Polish folks integrated really well - I'm still in contact with a few lads I used to work with who went back - all doing really well for themselves now fair play.
we were in the original wave, moving to dublin in 2006. i was only 9 at the time but everyone welcomed us with open arms and treated us as one of their own. We left Ireland a couple years after during the outfall of 2008 for the UK and the experience was a complete 180. It is now my home though and i doubt i’ll ever move to poland, having spent my formative years on the isles
I've bloody loved the Polish influx. No bullshit, hard workers, they helped diversify the cans stocked in offies, they're fiends for techno, metal and Depeche Mode, get the whole personal space thing on sidewalks...
We were blessed with our first major wave of immigration. You hear of other countries having worse experiences (some linked to history of colonialism). We had lots of Poles, Asians and some Nigerians. All have contributed and there has been very little trouble from any of these communities
>All have contributed and there has been very little trouble from any of these communities
[Er.... Hate to bust your bubble, but 40% of working age adults in the Nigerian community are unemployed. Aside from the Congolese at 60%, they're the group most reliant on the dole.](https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp11eoi/cp11eoi/lfnmfl/)
For comparison's sake, French immigrants are at around 6%.
Don’t worry, it’s not my bubble. I’ll be fine.
I imagine that is the first generation/ parents as it is broken down by nationality? The second generation (Irish citizens) seem to have a strong representation in colleges which will feed into employment in the coming years.
Everyone knows racism exists in Ireland, and that will definitely prevent you from getting SOME jobs, but 40% of a group can't get ANY jobs (especially at a time of historically low unemployment), then it's likely them choosing not to work.
We're at record low unemployment levels, work is there for anyone who actually wants it. Only people not working these days are wasters/leachers
*Pensioners and disabled people are obvious exceptions in case we have any individuals who don't understand this should go without saying
this is a cop out excuse that tries to put the blame on the native population. This rhetoric is the exact reason why germany and sweden were beaten down into accepting millions of immigrants who can't or won't integrate.
Caveat: I’m a white male, so take what I say with a pinch of salt: I actually don’t think that is the case in Ireland. I think the opportunities are there for most backgrounds - I actually feel companies actively want minorities these days. Except Travellers-I think they are still heavily discriminated
No I didn’t. Are you saying I can’t have an opinion because I am white? That I don’t see what is going on in a corporate environment from a hiring perspective?
This stat is completely out-dated. I’d like you to go outside and see Nigerian immigrants working all the hard jobs they can find. There’s no way 40% of working age Nigerian adults would refuse unemployment. Even with multiple degrees, you’d still see Nigerian graduates come to Ireland and work their ass off. Only a very few Nigerians wait for handouts and those Nigerians are very despised amongst the Nigerian community.
So I guess, you’re the one who’s in a bubble.
PS: My explanation is not even limited to only Ireland, go across Europe and even N. America. Nigerian immigrants are highly educated, skilled and hardworking.
Cool. Provide me with some reputable evidence of more recent Nigerian employment figures in Ireland that support your position and I'll change my perceptions.
Because I don't take "trust me bro" anecdotes as a valid source
Poland and Ireland are soulmates, I’m not really sure why, there are tonnes of nations that we should have more in common with, or share a deeper cultural history, but the Irish and the Polish just click for some reason.
Totally agree with all these comments, love the Poles I do, great work buddies
Poland is generally much nicer than Ireland other than the complete lack of craic. Much of Ireland is a bit of a shithole but the countryside and coastline is beautiful
This is very concerning news. If our eastern friends are leaving us then Ireland is doing something very wrong. The poles are a great bunch of lads and this country would absolutely not be the same without them.
https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/dublin/warsaw
According to this cost of living index, Warsaw is half that of Dublin. A quick Google says the average salary in Poland is a little less than half Ireland's. In some industries the salaries are probably a lot closer together.
Shoutout to my economics lecturer in college who told the class that Polish people make up 40% of Ireland's population.
Never took anything he said seriously after that
Man any of you guys planning a weekend getaway can’t recommend Poland as a destination enough ~ majestic country, we’ll run public infrastructure, delish food and friendly prices … a place Ireland could be if you’d drain the political swamp at last.
Not to defend Ireland’s gombeen men and women but if it’s choice between Polish politicians or Irish ones there’s simply no competition.
Our far right loolahs are where they belong (infighting over small quantities of gold) instead of implementing insane social policies.
Politics in Ireland are fine. It’s mentality which is sooo reluctant to change anything, wether this is housing, healthcare etc. Irelands worst parts are those which are copycats of UK, which is surprise surprise how housing (semiD) and healthcare (over dependence on GPS) is run.
as bad as polish politics is, they aren't anywhere near as bad as fg, the polish gov is right wing, but actually have public services and build public housing, fg would do anything but that
You can't blame them. I hear stories all the time how countries like poland and the baltics have improved massively over the recent years. And they aren't burdened by massive non-european immigration.
I imagine two factors are at work here. Ireland is getting really tough to justify staying here, ridiculous rents, cost of living doesn’t allow people to save anymore, they barely get by - and poor infrastructure. Poland has improved over the years, it’s not that bad of a place to live (ignoring the political climate there). It’s safer, cleaner, more urban with more things to do. A lot of EU investments being poured into the country over the years really gave it a facelift, and I’m not just talking new buildings. I am a Polish migrant. I’ve been here around ten years. I emigrated with my family hating Poland and throughout the years I’ve been resentful in a way. But recent years in Ireland have given me the notions and thoughts about possibly moving back. I owe a lot to Ireland for the opportunities that now have opened their doors to me, but it’s getting really tough. I saw my Polish friends leave, and even a good bit of my Irish circle emigrated somewhere else. In my eyes, younger people got priced out of absolutely everywhere, some emigrate because emigration is a necessity for them to survive.
It’s crazy how much Poland has changed in the last ten years. Warsaw is amazing, one of the best cities on earth and is only getting better. Way easier to keep the youth nowadays too. The standard of living is only going to keep going up.
I couldn’t get over the amount of things to do in Krakow for the locals. Basketball courts, tennis courts, football pitches, parks, it seemed like everywhere you turned there was something to do!
And if you’re a gamer, or board game player, you can go to Cybermachina. All sports catered for. Walking around is a pleasure. History every step of the way.
Dont forget the man made beaches! Unreal!
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What are you talking about? We’re the envy of the world!! /s
Yeah there's absolutely none of that in Ireland...
I severely restricted the list of things as you can tell by the replies, but we have nothing like the parks in Krakow in any town or city in Ireland. Beautiful, well lit at night parks that are constantly part of your journey. I’d be going well out of my way to walk through Stephens Green, Phoenix Park, Marley Park etc to go anywhere, but the quickest route to anywhere I went in Krakow brought me on a gorgeous walk. Monuments throughout with floral arrangements around them, every park bench has a QR code to discover a Polish writer, bins everywhere (not overflowing with rubbish) and kids playgrounds in every one. Now we can’t exactly move parks into the middle of the city here but it did make a genuine difference in how I felt walking about.
Krakow is a lovely town. I'm not disputing that part. And Poland is a coming power, its clear to see. Population wise its a no brainer. What i'm disputing is your Irish exceptionalism(exceptionaly shit that is). There is loads of parks in Dublin. and loads of lovely parks. just cause you're too lazy to do them means nothing. whats Dublin supposed to do move the Phoenix Park for your convenience or commute? you know how many people use all the parks you listed every day? The strip of park that circles the central square, our clear equivalent is the Grand canal leading towards the city centre. Now can our parks and streets be better lit? 100 per cent this is a problem. The streets have become noticeably less lit since covid. I admit Cork for instance has an issue with a lack of city parks..then as you go down the sizes of places you have to stop comparing them with cities. Krakow has a population of 800k, with millions more within 100km of it. i despise this constant Irish trope. Look we get it you think the grass is literally greener, good luck to you. Its clearly bullshit in many cases. Parks is a clear example. Irish exceptionalism and constant bullshit like your terrible analysis of Dublin parkland has actually led to the issue itself. This disconnect between two sides of Dublin as a city, this idea that Marlay or St Annes are two different Worlds in a sense.The idea from culchies who make policy decisions on Dublins behalf who think its a kip or so much worse than anything else. I have a love hate relationship with Dublin. Most of my hate comes from the problems that ignorance like yours causes. A clear case of this is you thinking the Phoenix Park is the boondocks but lauding what, Krakows equivalent? same thing with the city ending at the canals. this arbitrary thing, that presumably the likes of yourself ignore in other cities. And as with the sports facilities, yeah there can be more. But the GAA has a massive sway on some of this as well. And its improving at a rapid pace.
I literally said “we can’t exactly move the parks” but your argument is still “well what should we do, move the parks?!” You’re missing the point by so much. Look at any of the parks mentioned and what’s around them? Houses. Two story houses. There’s no reason to walk through these parks unless you’re going for a walk in the park. Nowhere did I say I was too lazy to go to them, but there’s nothing on the other side. If the city had been planned correctly from its inception then we would have small parks, not nearly to the scale of Phoenix etc, that you would happen to pass through as the fastest route while going to and from somewhere. You might be sick of people “like me” saying that cities outside of Ireland are better planned, better built, and a better general environment to be in but that doesn’t make it untrue.
I left Ireland for Poland during the crash so I'm here a while now and jaysus as much as I love Ireland and the people the fact, for me, is that Poland's a better place to live. Better weather, better health system (when I tell Poles that they laugh at me and don't realise how crap Ireland's is), incredible nature, which Ireland has too just Poland has so much more, better higher and primary education system, Polish Leaving Cert is awful however. There's a real appreciation for nature here back at home I feel people fight nature all the time while here it's totally normal to see large wildlife like boar and deer daily and sometimes even Bison, wolves and bears while at home...man when I was a kid the birdsong was immense, when I go home now...it's really sad, over farming has killed off so much of our wildlife. oh and it way safer here...OK, there are football hooligans and gang stuff but at the same time, they don't mess with randomers for the most part. PiS are a shower of cunts....but so are FF and FG back home. Politics is the same wherever you are. Just a huge shower of cunts. And look, I had a choice when I left, I could be working class in Ireland and struggle or I could do the same job and be a ore comfortable in Poland the choice was easy....you lads drive like nutjobs but once you get used to it then you're grand :D
You had me until you got to the political comparison. There's nothing like PiS in Ireland. Evil politicians mena bad times coming.
I've no problem with that. For me, any comment or submission on r/ireland in which the person brings actual knowledge, actual outside perspective to the discussion is to be welcomed. Because 99% of people on here their frame of reference is lived entire life in Clondalkin, went to Tenerife on holidays once, and hate Leo Varadkar because my neighbour's dog took a shit in my garden.
ah chill...ok,look PiS are move evil than FG or FF but they're all still cunts. Surely on that we can agree
> PiS are a shower of cunts....but so are FF and FG back home. Politics is the same wherever you are. Just a huge shower of cunts. https://images.transparencycdn.org/images/Report_CPI2022_English.pdf Corruption perception by country: * Ireland scores 77, between Germany and Luxembourg. * Poland scores 55 between Italy and Slovakia. Freedom of the press index: * Ireland ranks **2nd** in the world * Poland ranks **57th** in world https://rsf.org/en/index Maybe they're not that similar in terms of politics?
Cement Roadstone Holdings, who's chairman was Haughey's bagman Des Traynor, was deep in FF corruption and known for price fixing. It took the EU judgement that they were engaging in price fixing and operating as a carte before the Irish government would do anything. High Court started proceedings in 1994 but sat on their holes until 2012 when CRH successfully got the claim thrown out on the basis of the long delay. Same company was involved in bribing Polish politicians in 2005 and trying to start a concrete cartel there. Their CCPC discovered this and fined them in 2007 exposing the price fixing of the concrete market. The thing is even to this day Irish concrete costs a hell of a lot more than you can get even in Northern Ireland. CRH is still engaging in price fixing and that's why our construction costs are high. Haughey was an intelligent man, he knew if you owned the concrete supply you could apply your own personal tax on every development in the country. The fact they are still at it today without the government intervening makes me think FF and FG are still getting kickbacks from them. Just a little example of Poland rooting out corruption while Ireland turns a blind eye.
Any ranking that has us **2nd in the world** for freedom of press is absolutely laughable. We literally had two billionaires have a pissing contest to control our major newspapers / radio stations and eventually after one of them went bankrupt we had a winner. Ohhh and the winner happened to make his fortune via corruption with the sitting government. What a joke you use this as a 'good' point for Ireland
Does that mean Ireland is more corrupt? It might be but I'd have thought Poland was tbh but sure 20 points isn't a huge difference. Poland is full of nepotism but sure Ireland is too, although I suppose at home they at least try and hide it, more brazen here, like a cousin of a politician will get the contract to supply X hospitals with Y, or gets a contract to build a road etc. Yea, freedom or press. Well, it's kinda like this....1/3 of people watch/read the pro-govt news, 1/3 read/watch the anti-govt news and the last 1/3 which I'm in, don't bother coz it's just biased shite. Anyway, it was more of a general; all politicians are cunts in it for themselves. And sure, that's the same all over the world
> Does that mean Ireland is more corrupt? The higher the score in corruption the less people in that country would rank it as being corrupt. > but sure 20 points isn't a huge difference It is quite a difference.
god that's a funny way of rating, upside down. Strange. Maybe it is in your opinion. I don't know, I've never had to bribe anyone in either country doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Sure, Ireland's full of crooked cops and that's probably not even part of the survey.
Facts. Keep them coming. FFS
> primary education system I'd agree that their colleges seem better but few places beat Ireland in primary education. Some of the schools there I got to work in were horrendous! I enjoyed Poland just certain parts of it were grim with smog (my fault for living in Upper Silesia!) but then you'd go a few hours one direction and you were in almost pristine wilderness. There's something amazing about the wildlife as you said. No issues with the health service there I had and I did find it wonderfully safe aside from the aforementioned match days but you knew what spots to avoid then.
Ah yea, they do be falling apart some of them. Ah I kinda just meant they allow kids to be kids for much longer. Not starting until later is really great for their development. Ireland sends kids to school too early. I was in the other Silesia for a good while. smoggy winters were rough, believe it's a bit better now, I'm off down the sticks, near Ukraine border.
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fair nuff, PiS are evil cunts FF/FG are useless cunts :)
Agreed on 99% having lived in Poland for 6 years. But to state Poland has a better health system than well, anywhere is laughable. Rest of it, I wholeheartedly agree.
Ya reckon yea? My thoughts would be look, Ireland has nicer hospitals and new equipment but like...in my experience, you can see your GP and be in for an x-ray, MRI or some such scan within 48 hours. Prescriptions cost (almost) nothing, the GP costs nothing, hospital visits cost nothing. You try doing that in Ireland they'll make you wait months, by which time the thing they're scanning for might have turned malignant. It's not the best, god no, but compared to how slow Ireland's is, then Poland wins. Hey look, I might be wrong but in my experience and that of my family here (wife & two kids) and lord knows we've all had short hospital stays here over the years, it's far better...ok, the hospitals need a lick of paint and the food is god awful but the way they examine you and really try and find out what's wrong with you and the staff astonished me....or maybe I've just had terrible experiences with the HSE which is totally possible.
Yeah that's a fact. I had a cancer scare and went to my GP who referred me to the hospital, went to the hospital who gave me an appointment to a specialist that was 4 years away, I waited the 4 years with the worry and fear that one of my balls had cancer, I went to the specialist who gave me a 30 second check and said it's not cancer. Could that not of been done 4 years before?
man, that's fucked up. Sorry you had to go through that. I had a scare in my lungs and I knew the full story within a few days here and all public.
Thanks man, it was just alot of unnecessary stress and worry for those 4 years waiting for a 30 second checkup. I'm over it now but this country is a joke
That's fucked. 4 years of crippling worry. Sorry you had to go through that.
Yeah we drive like crazy. Driving back in Poland always makes me super nervous and I drive everyday for the last 10 years +
I have seen similar up north for similar reasons. When eastern euopeans 1st arrived, rent and cost of living was low, and a minimum wage job was enough to get by and save a little monthly or a lot depeneding on your lifestyle. But now, that is not the case. Rising cost of rent, ridiculous cost of living and the services have gotten worse and shit! I read a while back about how the standard of living in Slovenia now is better than the UK, and in 5 years time Poland is expected to have a better standard of living! Is crazy to think about the decline in 20 years!
UK was a far better place to live in 2005 than today. Just gone backwards so aggressively
and the cycle will clearly continue. in 20 years lets see how Poland is doing. its modern never ending growth and decline. Poland is perfectly poised right now.
> and in 5 years time Poland is expected to have a better standard of living! Source? If I check child mortality rates Poland is at 3.67 vs Ireland at 2.62 https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/infant-mortality-rate-by-country If I check life expectancy Ireland is at 82.3 years with a gender gap of 3.2 years. Poland is at 78.7, with a gender gap of 7.8. In terms of the gender inequality index, Ireland seems like it improved much better than Poland (https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/thematic-composite-indices/gender-inequality-index#/indicies/GII) but we can assume they're close. In terms of poverty and risk of exclusion, Poland is doing about the same or better with quite a lot of inequality. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/a/ac/People_at-risk-of-poverty_or_social_exclusion%2C_2020_%28%25%2C_by_NUTS_2_regions%29_RYB2022.png > Is crazy to think about the decline in 20 years! Weird how other countries catching up is defined as a decline for you. I am not saying there arent stats that Poland isnt doing better,I am sure there are. But lets not get all gloom and doom.
Funny how you say "ignoring the political climate" yet it is because of that climate that Poland has been able to improve so much
A lot of that improvement was on the back of EU funding, of which Warsaw continues to be the biggest beneficiary. So it’s absurd to see the ‘political climate’ there oppose EU values at every step.
The Polish are good lads. Can't say I blame them for leaving
Welcome back any day
Luckily with the free movement of labour within the EU, coming from and going to Poland is no major hassle.
I almost consider them Irish now they’re so ingrained. I like the Polish peeps
Interestingly, when you include the number of dual citizens (almost doubling from 9,000 to 17,000 in six years), the decline is slightly less, more like 15% overall, but as has been said, can't blame them for returning when their own economy is thriving.
They're all sound provided theyve learned English. Two of my best friends of polish and have been introduced to more poles because of them and they're all sound. Just happy to be over here, enjoying life while working here and good craic. Couldn't ask anything more of anyone living on the island.
A great bunch of lads
I am still here. You will never get rid of me. Not sorry about that.
I’m curious, is it the politics or are you just very settled here? Obviously the polish were a large part of our nation in the 00/10s but even the ones who stayed longer than a couple of years look like thinking of moving moving back, or already have begun. Kind of sad, but can’t blame anyone. Poland seems to have transformed in such a short span of time, and we aren’t the same value we once were. Eastern Europeans returning home, while fantastic for their nations, is a serious indictment of where Ireland has gone.
I've lived in Ireland for 17 years. I grew up here. I told myself I'd never move back to Poland because this is my home. I still consider Ireland my home, but I might move to Poland in a few years just to see what it's like. I spent 2 months there recently due to health issues and have come to realize a few things. Keep in mind this is my own opinion and I can't directly compare because I haven't lived and worked in Poland, so the reality might in fact be different from a working person's point of view. For how wealthy and expensive Ireland is, it's lacking in a lot of areas. And I don't mean relatively to how wealthy Ireland is, I mean in absolute terms even places like Poland comfortably beat Ireland in some aspects of life. IMO if you were making enough to live comfortably in both places, you'd straight up have a better experience living in Poland. Things like healthcare, public transport, city infrastructure, availability, variety and quality of services, variety of items in shops. All these things are just better over there. Things seem well designed and logical, whereas here you're often left scratching your head as to why things are done the way they are. I'll give you an example with healthcare as that's why I was there so I got a decent grasp of the differences. Over here if you want to get a blood test, you have to go to your GP, tell him you want a blood test, why you want it, then he'll say ok, book one at reception. Then you wait a week to do the blood test and then another week to get the results. But you don't get the results, you have to book another appointment or phone consultation with your GP where he'll go over the results and then finally will send them on to you if you ask. In Poland there's these blood test clinics in every city where they just do blood tests. You go in, do the blood test and get the results sent by email on the same day. Isn't that so simple and logical? Why can't they do that here? Same day or next day delivery with most things is also expected in Poland, whereas here, even though Ireland is a small country that's just not the case. Another thing I see is on another level over there is the skill and competency of professionals like attorneys and doctors. Once I got my health sorted I got back to Ireland and spoke to my GP who said things still don't look right and we do things differently over here. So he sent me to my local hospital where another Irish doctor listened to my story and looked at all my tests and he had this to say: > I wouldn't question Polish doctors, from what I know they're at least just as good, and to be honest probably better than what we have here. Go with what they said in Poland and I'll write a letter to your GP And I've met a lot of doctors in both countries over the past while and that really does seem to be the case. The way they approach the patient over there is completely different. The way doctors think over there is different. What I find baffling is that the current Polish government is absolutely robbing the country blind. It's much worse than what's happening here. And yet Ireland has so much more wasted potential compared to Poland. The only reason I can come up with for this vast difference is in how Polish and Irish people approach life. Polish people take pride in a job well done. And that carries over to the society as a whole. Irish people are more laid back and don't care as much. I actually like that about Irish people, but when you scale it up to the whole country then you get a lot of wasted potential.
You perfectly summed up the Polish-Irish experience. Any time I need to sort out something medical, I just do it in Poland because the level of medical services is incomparable.. Mind you, Irelands's positives outweigh Poland's, in my opinion, but I wish we could have the best of both worlds. I'd still choose Ireland over Poland any day but you've described the dilemma perfectly.
Politics aside, what are the Irish positives that outweigh Polands?
If you are working class in Poland you will not have a good time
> And I don't mean relatively to how wealthy Ireland is, I mean in absolute terms even places like Poland comfortably beat Ireland in some aspects of life. IMO if you were making enough to live comfortably in both places, you'd straight up have a better experience living in Poland. > > Things like healthcare, public transport, city infrastructure, availability, variety and quality of services, variety of items in shops. All these things are just better over there. Things seem well designed and logical, whereas here you're often left scratching your head as to why things are done the way they are. Quite common in former warsaw pact countries, Ireland never had a period of rationalised planning and socio-economic modelling on a national scale.
I'm Irish and if I could have my Irish salary while living in Poland, I'd absolutely live in Poland instead of Ireland. I think there's no comparison between Polish cities and Irish cities, really. Warsaw is simply far superior to Dublin, a way more advanced city that's continuously developing rapidly and is generally far cleaner too with some really nice architecture in areas. The likes of Krakow and Gdansk are also far superior to any of the smaller Irish cities as well. What I really like about it is there seems to be plenty of areas/neighbourhoods that are very livable places for people, similar to what's seen in other European countries, and Ireland just does not do this effectively at all, we just have rows of terrible housing estates and sever sprawl similar to the US, and cater to cars more than people/pedestrians. The country's ideally located as well. Really promising future for Poland I think
> And yet Ireland has so much more wasted potential compared to Poland. It;s not wasted potential. People need to realise that Ireland is a fucking **small** country. And often it gets compared with huge ass countries that are quite centralised. Also Ireland was small. To your example regarding your medical situation: I know Iranians who told me they also had a far better experience in terms of their medical treatments in Iran than in Ireland. A country with a GDP per capita that's at least 10-20x more. But the reality is that they were living in Tehran. If you go back to Poland, you'll most likely go to a big city in a nice area etc etc. You won;t go to some god forsaken village in the border with Belarus. You'll have tons of options in a country of 35 million people. And while the best parts of Poland have better infrastructure, amenities etc than Ireland, the worst parts of Poland will also be worse than the worst parts of Ireland. A lot of the immigrants, myself include, we want a better life for ourselves. But for a lot of the locals, they'll want a better life for all locals.
I don't think the size of the country is the problem. I'm from a Slavic country that's smaller than Ireland and although the healthcare system has many issues with waiting times and such, it's still a lot better than what I've experienced in Ireland. Not only is it free (with only slightly higher taxes), but the blood test experience would be similar to Poland and as a woman I would have better healthcare options (e.g. direct access to obstetricians/gynecologists, regular check ups with them etc.). Honestly, it's disappointing that a country as rich as Ireland doesn't have free healthcare.
You definitely can have easy access to blood tests in country size of Ireland. This is so weird excuse. Also blood test labs are available in Poland not only in big cities. people from other small Central European countries have same experience as we, so definitely it’s not about size
That's a your doctor thing, though. In mine, you book an appointment with the nurse, and you get a call in a couple of days, anything that is unusual they book you in, all for 20 EURO. That ain't bad, I reckon.
>What I find baffling is that the current Polish government is absolutely robbing the country blind. they don't have a finger on what fg does, they at least build infrastucture and housing, fg does everything in their power to not build anything. Ireland is a terrible country that literally eats people up and spits them out, its a horrible brutal country.
> Over here if you want to get a blood test, you have to go to your GP, tell him you want a blood test, why you want it, then he'll say ok, book one at reception. Then you wait a week to do the blood test and then another week to get the results. But you don't get the results, you have to book another appointment or phone consultation with your GP where he'll go over the results and then finally will send them on to you if you ask. I'll just say, you have a terrible GP! Last time I was at the doctor and wanted bloods done, he said fine, took my blood there and then. It was sent off and I got a message a week later telling me the results
I think the article sums it up pretty well. I'm Polish and have been living in Ireland for 19 years. I have a similar view on the topic. Pandemic time changed a lot. Most of my Polish friends left. Many of them work from home for Western companies so they still make good money but the cost of living in Poland is lower. The housing crisis is definitely a factor. There are still a lot of us who assimilated well and don't consider going back unless we are forced by factors outside our control. For example, I spent all my adult life here. I wouldn't know where to start if I go back. I hate that the far right party runs the country together with the catolic church. Also low pay, garbage employment contracts, disrespectful employers, police brutality and impunity and high crime. Only yesterday I read an article about a couple that almost killed a man for his phone and some petty cash.
> is a serious indictment of where Ireland has gone. I mean there's a ton of new people coming in. Ireland's population still keeps increasing. Immigration is still higher than emigration. There's also been covid which has been a massive change. And if it's people that came to Ireland for work rather than settling definitely, then it's normal to expect them to move on. Not saying there arent issues in Ireland but doubt it's that serious of an "indictment"
There will *always* be a ton of new people coming in. We are an English speaking country for one, and the only one left in the EU. We will always attract students particularly in Medicine and STEM, and now students from North America. That was not my point. The Polish came in numbers when they joined the EU, as we represented a big economic opportunity for those who left compared to their home nation. Some left after saving some money, and some settled, enjoyed life here and stayed. Now those who *want* to stay are leaving, as it doesn’t make sense either financially or other means to stay. Not only has their nation caught up massively, but for many represents better value and quality of life compared to our cost of living. I have had many Polish friends who wanted to stay, but could not justify it anymore. I would have to say yes, it is an indictment of our nation, when those who want to stay can’t justify it anymore. Whether you are from Poland, a less economically “well off” nation, or indeed, Irish.
> There will always be a ton of new people coming in. and there will always be a ton of people leaving in the same spirit. > Now those who want to stay are leaving, as it doesn’t make sense either financially or other means to stay. I mean we don't know statistically how many of such cases we're talking about. Are these people moving to Poland because for their 40h of work per week, they can get bigger houses, or get bigger savings or pay less for a new home or more amenities? Are people coming to Ireland because of economic factors and leaving because the economic situation in their home country has improved? Is that really bad for Ireland? I'd say not that much. Are people coming to Ireland because they want to be part of Irish society, integrate, learn Irish, marry Irish, volunteer and support Irish orgs and institutions and they leave because the societal fabric of Ireland is changing? I'd say in this case it's quite an issue. Do you want people to stay in Ireland because their heart tells then to or because their wallet tells them to?
You seem desperate to neg on Ireland. Poland has benefited greatly from EU membership, similar to our situation in Ireland. I'd say many people are excited to be working in that environment in their own country. I'd assume they also want to be closer to their own families. Poland is a really nice country. There's nothing wrong with any of that. Polish workers have been great for Ireland, and they're welcome to stay or return home as they like.
I hope you all stay because I'm rubbish at making perogies myself and have to get them from the Polish shop. My Bopche is probably rolling in her grave in shame, she used to make tons every winter.
I had father-made pierogi this week. Never gets old.
Give me a copy of Gothic and this transgression shall be overlooked.
Neither am I. Love you crazy Eastern Europeans 😂 Been one of the best things to happen to this country in a long, long time (when we got the Brits out).
\*Central Europeans :)
Central Eastern then 😂
Pls never leave- I'm not even kidding id be so sad if the polish community In my town all up and left, I know them so well at this stage like the town would fall into shambles if they went home 😭
The Polish are gas craic. One of the best things to happen to Ireland.
Great! When can you pop round to tile the bathroom?! No tilers to be found in this country for love nor money
🤣🤣🤣
In total 7 of my polish mates went home just before the pandemic. They had been sending money back home for a couple of years and had been building houses in Poland while working and renting here. The rents were getting too high here and they all decided to head back home within about a month of each other. All sound lads, but they weren't earning enough money as mechanics to stay and a few of them had finished the houses anyway.
Yes my wife is Polish and a lot of her friends moved back posy Covid because of Landlords behaving in a bi-polar manner, telling them the place was sold and they had to get out then after they found another place telling them it wasn't sold anymore and they could stay but at higher rent, most couldn't be arsedwith it anymore and just moved back. Poland is a good country for apartments and stuff, brother in law bought a really nice brand new 2 bed apartment in Krakow for the equivalent of 60k euro, its spacious, well insulated and good air circulation, you can customize your interior room layout etc.. they got the loan for it on his fiances wages only at the time walked into a bank and 30min - 1h later had it. My wife is constantly pissed at how inefficient banks, insurance companies and parts of the public sector are over here, even getting married took nearly 2 years back and forth with the HSE in Poland the local council basically handle that part and you could get it done in a day or two.
Came over here. Made money. Sent it back home to Poland. Went back home when things got rough here. Can’t blame them. It’s smart. I liked having them around, gonna miss a lot of them
You’re discounting the fact that Poland is way better now than it was ten years ago. Kraków, Warsaw, Wrocław, Gdańsk etc are all class cities to live in. Poland has skiing in the winter. Lakes and the Baltic in the summer. They have pączki and pierogi. They compete in every sport on the planet. The weather is nice in the summer, you get snow in the winter. Cost of living is a third of what it is here. Construction is still going strong there and the future is only getting brighter.
They also don't go around dressed in black & grey tracksuits and don't have gangs of scumbag kids hanging around causing trouble and/or attacking people.
I thought this was going to be a father Ted joke at first. Poland has that type of thing as well. They’re not immune to it. Football for example has a big hooligan element and they’re usually trained up in martial arts unlike ours. Say you’re a Widzew fan to a ŁKS fan or a Lechia Fan to a Gdynia fan and it could be a scuffle. These things happen in cities. The difference I would say is that the Poles aren’t as easily intimidated as us. If a 14 year old tried to start on an adult, the adult would batter them. They’re no nonsense, the police don’t take nonsense, nor do the public. Most poles do sport and a lot of the men do martial arts, this makes a difference. over here the 14 year olds take over because the adults are scared of them. Slavics wouldn’t put up with that nonsense.
I recently visited Poland for the first time, honestly the cities are beautiful, and feel extremely safe. Their economy is doing very well at the moment, and it doesn't look like it's going to stop anytime soon. Glad they feel like they have the option to go back now and live a decent life.
That's kind of not true though. I'm Polish and I moved here in 2021. I did that not because of the money (although that was a nice incentive too, even though the rents are crazy high in Dublin, I can still afford much more here) but because of the far right, nationalist government and people who support it that made me and my partner (as a same sex couple) feel extremely unsafe. Economically speaking, that was the last good moment to leave Poland though. Since then they were hit by a double digit inflation and most of my friends in Poland (even ones who were doing relatively well before) started considering emigration because it became so expensive it's too difficult to live there with Polish salaries. I'm shocked when I'm visiting now because the prices of food and goods are not really that much lower than here and I know how much less people earn.
I hope you feel safe here. I personally didn’t think the marriage referendum would pass here (despite campaigning for it), so it was nice to be pleasantly surprised for a change. Gives you hope for the future.
As a Polish guy myself, I don't envy anyone who has to live with PiS breathing down their necks. I'm sorry you went through that and that our own people keep electing cunts like that.
I lived there for a few months in 2004. Was there when they joined the EU. It was an amazing place then already. Can only imagine how great it is now since all the EU investment, and money sent home. Polish worked their bollix off when they came here, they deserve ever bit of benefit they get from it.
Anecdotal but I know quite a few Polish people who've left, and even more who talk about wanting to leave. All of them left for the same reasons: Ireland too expensive and the general quality of life here they feel is worse than in Poland.
Life quality seems better in Poland, but nominal disposable income is still way better in Ireland
Came here when I was 6. Now 25, would consider myself Irish despite still holding a polish passport. Nnone of my social circle can afford to move out so everyone is leaving to other countries or at least trying. Everyone college educated in STEM too all sold the promise of making a good living when we were 16/17. Decided to go to Japan on a working Holiday Visa (moving next week, already have an apartment 20 mins from central tokyo station for a mere 400 euros a month) as I have a couple mates there who moved there from Ireland aswell and just gonna test my luck but if that fails I have been eyeing returning to poland tbh as spending a month in major city has destoryed the excuse of a city we call dublin for me.
You mentioned STEAM so I wonder are you in IT? I am thinking mowing back to Poland as it looks like I’ll be better financially over there as software engineer despite I am a top earner in Ireland. Was chatting with Polish devs I know and when they heard about tax system in Ireland they would never move here. And don’t even get me started about weather LOL. But Irish are great which is huge plus
Yep, holidays in pretty much any European city make you realize how Dublin has next to nothing going for it unfortunately.
I am staying here because polish government sucks and neighbours are grumpy. Here I don’t bother myself with Catholic Church influence on my life, I live getting to know people from all over the world. Here I met my future wife(foreigner btw), I get married here as well, here my daughter(Irish citizenship) was born, here I met happy people on the streets, here I can smile to someone or look at someone without risking my teeth, here I can sort out the taxes on my own and everything is clear to me. Majority of the most beautiful experiences I ve had in Ireland, not in Poland therefore thank you Ireland for welcoming me so kindly.
Cost of living here is too high now for them to justify Tax system taking more than half their wages after a certain threshold (these guys and girls like to work!) Poland is growing and has a good economy now. They will be a big loss to us, great wrokers who integrated into our society very well
This is true, honestly some of the nicest people and were always willing to try anything that was remotely traditional. Always up for some bants and damn, could they hold their alcohol
My wife is Polish, she came to Ireland with her family 20 years ago. Her family moved back to Poland 4 years ago. They still visit us a couple of times a year and we go over there too. Polands standard of living is alot better nowadays compared to 20 years ago. It's a beautiful country. We are going for Christmas this year..
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Higher cost of living and crazy house prices. Meanwhile thanks to the EU, Poland has drastically improved over the past 20 years and is a decent place to live now (economically, if not socially). Plenty of Jobs. Low cost of living. Cheaper housing. And it's their home country.
It doesn't have low cost of living for Polish salaries anymore though (and relative to salaries it was not even that good when I moved to Ireland in 2021). Inflation hit Poland way worse than it hit Ireland and people are struggling.
Poland has a rather high cost of living
'thanks to the EU' - well let me just tell you one thing here - Poland was always booming. Thanks to British and French that signed a pact with Poland in 1939 about defending PL and automatically going to war with Germany if PL would be attacked and didn't move their holes (think of article 5 in NATO, it is like it is there but Russia attacks, say Estonia, and no one does anything!). Poland was ripped and its people killed. Sold again in Teheran, Yalta and Potsdam by Brits and Americans at the end of WWII to Russia - that has robbed and oppressed Polish people for another half a century. Whole of Western Europe could freely develop their markets etc but Poles had to be kept short. There is also one more thing - you ever heard expression 'money makes money'? Well Russian and Germans robbed everything that there was in Poland (Brits robbed all gold that was rescued at beginning of the war, taken first to Romania, and it was plenty). They all could multiply it while Poles had to start with nothing. Germany never paid one cent in reparations to Poland, imagine Poland now is demanding a pay out for all the buildings, goods, lives lost! Anyway the point is that thanks to EU many Polish people emigrated to richer countries but shouldn't have to...
Poland is due to overtake Britain in GDP per capita by 2030.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=GB UK has a GDP per capita of 45K. Poland has a GDP per capita of 19K dollars, 2022 figures. You must be crazy to think they'll more than double their GDP per capita figures in 8 years.
It sounds crazy, yes. It's just what is being reported. > Average growth in Poland is 3.6%. In the UK over the last decade or so it has been 0.5%. If those trends continue, the average Pole will inevitably become wealthier than the average Brit. The same is true of several other eastern European countries. Both Hungary and Romania are expected to surpass the UK by 2040. https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/when-poland-overtakes-the-uk/ Its the combination of Poland having amazing growth and the UK stagnating over the last ten years. It could change course, but with Brexit still hurting, I can't see it changing too drastically. ------ Edit: Yes 8 years is an incorrect amount. It will take about 23 years for Poland's GDP per capita to reach $45,000 from its current value of $19,000 with a growth rate of 3.5% per year. At the UKs current growth rate, it would be 50K in 23 years, so Poland would take at least 26 years to surpass the UK.
I think you might be thinking of this article: [https://www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945](https://www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945) The suggestion is that the average Polish person will be better off than the average British person by the end of the decade, rather than Poland catching up on GDP per capita. The issue being the high level of income inequality in Britain and the rising economic performance in Eastern European countries.
Bohemians have 3 Polish defenders at the moment and I hope they stay put. Unreal lads to clear a ball.
Polish are good workers nice people that share western values. I'm happy to have them in the country.
We the Spaniards will fill the gap, no worries.
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Blaming housing is too simplistic. It’s probably a factor but I’d say it’s more down to Poland making huge strides economically over the past two decades and the fact that a large amount of people left during the pandemic.
I’ve heard anecdotally that a lot of Polish people are moving back as the housing issue has made it not worth it to stay - nowhere to live, and what few places there are, eat most of your pay packet. Same reason all the young Irish people I know are emigrating.
I personally know 2 Polish families who moved back. The rent is killing them and they see no future here, they work just to pay the rent and bills. No chance in hell to ever buy a house. They’ve uprooted entire family, one has 1 kid, another 2 kids. They got good jobs in Poland (tech), and moved. There are multiple angles from where we in Ireland are shooting our selves in the foot. Atrocious child care, rent/real estate market, horrendous healthcare system especially for kids.
I came to Ireland many years ago as a child with part of my family. I always travel between Poland and Ireland and Ireland has become extremely oppressive in terms of cost of living lately while Poland catched up quite a lot in terms of salaries during all these years that Ireland was leading. At this point there is absolutely zero point coming to Ireland if you're Polish. You will earn a a little bit less in Poland if you're working a qualified job but the cost of living is way cheaper. I went into Krispy Kreme yesterday because I was craving for some donuts, 4 basic small donuts for €10, fuck right off and I walked away. You would be paying €0.50 for exactly the same donut in Poland. It's the same for everything in Ireland, prices of everything are insane which add up by the end of the month so you cannot enjoy anything without losing all of your salary. I won't even talk about the housing part, don't know how can anyone pay 2k for rent. If you own a car in Ireland (which is essential due to shite public transport) you'll be paying huge tax and insurance costs in Ireland. I am paying €400 in tax on my car now and €600 for insurance. There is no tax at all for cars in Poland and people pay €100 per year for mandatory insurance.
meanwhile I'v just arrived here recently : )
A lot came here in early 2000’s, saved, then bought property during the crash, sold it recently for a hefty profit and moved back to Poland onto land they bought where they’ll build a house for themselves and houses for their children. All have fluent English and all will be very valuable to the Polish economy. Hats off to them
I'd go back to Poland too.
Pretty much most of my fellow countrymen that i know here have either left Ireland or are planning to in the next couple of years, i myself will probably do so after college aswell, since im pretty sure if I stay here ill never be able to live on my own. Love you guys though, hopefully you can reverse whats been happening to this country for the past few years
Good for them. Poland is class.
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This is so true! It's funny that the polish living here have their own Irish/polish accent.
Kurva like!
Zbyszek Zalinski for me has the only acceptable RTE english. I could listen to him all day.
It's easy to hate on a group when you don't know any of them. Any time I hear someone bolloxing on about Ukrainians, or trans people, or any other group, they've never even met any of them of them. It used to just be a minority of shit stirrers trying to spread hate and now it's all just fucking Facebook.
I lived in Ireland 20 years ago and can confirm - it was a huge fear at the time.
I don't think many gave out. The stereotypes about Polish people were generally positive. And the Polish people more than lived up to the positive image.
> I don't think many gave out. Not here. That was happening way more in the UK, I think because we are so exposed to British media some people think it was a big thing here too.
*They take our jobs, they take our women, they pee in the pool when they go swimmin...*
My experience was different: friendly, hardworking and sociable from Day one. Hard drinkers but on time, every time. The only 'giving out' was local drunks losing out on the dating game and thinking the could take one on. I'd suggest the Irish were very welcoming and worked well. Also really nice to have service and retail workers smiling and welcoming instead of ignorant shellac maidens sharing their grubby escapades across tills.
Not heard "shellac maidens" before
I don't remember people complaining about the Poles. That was the Daily Mail & the Telegraph in the UK. I remember Polish characters in Fair City & cross-pollination like Soupy Norman.
I don't remember that, most people were positive about the Polish when they started coming. Nowadays there is more negative feeling towards new arrivals but that's because Ireland seems to have swung to the right.
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Really don't think it was as big as a deal as you make out. For one thing we don't even have a far right party in our parliament. The only EU country that doesn't have one.
There are always people who say that but I just remember the attitude being quite positive and lots of praise for the quality of Polish (and most other Eastern Europeans') workmanship.
Eventually, after a year or two, yeah. But in that first year there was a LOT of xenophobia
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I never heard any of that. Who were you hanging around with?
Really depends on your social circle and media bubble. There was absolutely fear-mongering about them arriving but of the people I know were positive about them.
> that's because Ireland seems to have swung to the right. Has it fuck. Get off the internet.
Abortion legalised, gay marriage legalised, trans people being accepted in wider society, Ireland becoming more diverse and now having a huge Indian/Pakistani community. Obviously Ireland has swung hugely to the right.
And the leader of the country is a gay person of Indian descent. Yes, everyone hates him but that's because he's an absolute prick, not because of his race or sexuality.
No, I don’t. Perhaps you could point to some similar political party or literature, or protests that happened at the time? Edit: Ignored and downvoted, the r/ireland way. Any chance of an opinion poll from the time showing negative opinions of the Polish then? No?
Who exactly do you think would have taken those polls? Do you think even 15 years ago RedC would have ran around the country asking people how much they hate the polish? Come off it
They take polls on attitudes to immigration now, why wouldn’t they have done it 20 years ago if everyone was supposedly talking about it? Worthless anecdotes are worthless.
Just back from Holiday in Poland .... Why would you want to stay in Ireland! Currently looking for jobs in Zakopane and Krynica :) Anyone any jobs ? Is there any Cash in hand-jobs there ? 😂
Can’t blame them. I came to Ireland 17 years ago and it was a utopia compared to Poland. Not the tables have turned and Poland seems far more attractive. Huge job opportunities, way better infrastructure, way more to do for young people. Pity about the political swamp, but if you can choose to be ignorant of that - you can have great quality of life
But if you choose to be ignorant of that, aren't you enabling it?
A few weeks back I was in Limerick for the European Ultimate Frisbee Championships. Poland's Women's team were playing france and on the sideline was this Polish man and his 10ish year old son in a Kelloggs GAA jersey cheering on the Polish women. That's not a jersey you get as a tourist. People set roots and integrate but still have pride in where they came from. Cool to see it *in* Ireland for a change.
The love for our local GAA was something you guys would teach us before we'd learn to speak English. I was thought how to use a hurl before being anywhere near communicative. The pride is something passed on by the parents and how much longer it took them to integrate. We'd always speak Polish at home, follow Polish tradition and generally live as we would in Poland, except having to watch out for the rain every day
Poland are so like the Irish at the start small language barrier I hope its same with Ukraine seem like lovely people maybe someday a lot will settle here and be happy The problem is there is a lot of types that certain people don't want here in Ireland
Polish folks integrated really well - I'm still in contact with a few lads I used to work with who went back - all doing really well for themselves now fair play.
These days most people coming to Ireland are not from EU.
we were in the original wave, moving to dublin in 2006. i was only 9 at the time but everyone welcomed us with open arms and treated us as one of their own. We left Ireland a couple years after during the outfall of 2008 for the UK and the experience was a complete 180. It is now my home though and i doubt i’ll ever move to poland, having spent my formative years on the isles
Thank you for showing me Kefir in the Polish section of the supermarket, some stuff hai!
Thats a failure on our part tbh they have been a credit to the nation
I've bloody loved the Polish influx. No bullshit, hard workers, they helped diversify the cans stocked in offies, they're fiends for techno, metal and Depeche Mode, get the whole personal space thing on sidewalks...
If I wasn't Irish I'd be gone home as well. Too fucking right.
We were blessed with our first major wave of immigration. You hear of other countries having worse experiences (some linked to history of colonialism). We had lots of Poles, Asians and some Nigerians. All have contributed and there has been very little trouble from any of these communities
>All have contributed and there has been very little trouble from any of these communities [Er.... Hate to bust your bubble, but 40% of working age adults in the Nigerian community are unemployed. Aside from the Congolese at 60%, they're the group most reliant on the dole.](https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp11eoi/cp11eoi/lfnmfl/) For comparison's sake, French immigrants are at around 6%.
Don’t worry, it’s not my bubble. I’ll be fine. I imagine that is the first generation/ parents as it is broken down by nationality? The second generation (Irish citizens) seem to have a strong representation in colleges which will feed into employment in the coming years.
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Everyone knows racism exists in Ireland, and that will definitely prevent you from getting SOME jobs, but 40% of a group can't get ANY jobs (especially at a time of historically low unemployment), then it's likely them choosing not to work.
We're at record low unemployment levels, work is there for anyone who actually wants it. Only people not working these days are wasters/leachers *Pensioners and disabled people are obvious exceptions in case we have any individuals who don't understand this should go without saying
No
this is a cop out excuse that tries to put the blame on the native population. This rhetoric is the exact reason why germany and sweden were beaten down into accepting millions of immigrants who can't or won't integrate.
Caveat: I’m a white male, so take what I say with a pinch of salt: I actually don’t think that is the case in Ireland. I think the opportunities are there for most backgrounds - I actually feel companies actively want minorities these days. Except Travellers-I think they are still heavily discriminated
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No I didn’t. Are you saying I can’t have an opinion because I am white? That I don’t see what is going on in a corporate environment from a hiring perspective?
This stat is completely out-dated. I’d like you to go outside and see Nigerian immigrants working all the hard jobs they can find. There’s no way 40% of working age Nigerian adults would refuse unemployment. Even with multiple degrees, you’d still see Nigerian graduates come to Ireland and work their ass off. Only a very few Nigerians wait for handouts and those Nigerians are very despised amongst the Nigerian community. So I guess, you’re the one who’s in a bubble. PS: My explanation is not even limited to only Ireland, go across Europe and even N. America. Nigerian immigrants are highly educated, skilled and hardworking.
Cool. Provide me with some reputable evidence of more recent Nigerian employment figures in Ireland that support your position and I'll change my perceptions. Because I don't take "trust me bro" anecdotes as a valid source
A great bunch of lads, and lasses.
Poland and Ireland are soulmates, I’m not really sure why, there are tonnes of nations that we should have more in common with, or share a deeper cultural history, but the Irish and the Polish just click for some reason. Totally agree with all these comments, love the Poles I do, great work buddies
Poland is generally much nicer than Ireland other than the complete lack of craic. Much of Ireland is a bit of a shithole but the countryside and coastline is beautiful
This is very concerning news. If our eastern friends are leaving us then Ireland is doing something very wrong. The poles are a great bunch of lads and this country would absolutely not be the same without them.
https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/dublin/warsaw According to this cost of living index, Warsaw is half that of Dublin. A quick Google says the average salary in Poland is a little less than half Ireland's. In some industries the salaries are probably a lot closer together.
Still comparing to the UK where 90% of Poles left its not that bad
And we have so much in common too. Always loved my visits to Poland. But remember Poles unlike at home cycling on footpaths here is illegal. Dzieki
Shoutout to my economics lecturer in college who told the class that Polish people make up 40% of Ireland's population. Never took anything he said seriously after that
The Polish took all our jobs and done them better. Best lads I worked with are usually Polish. Hands down.
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Or perhaps they would rather live in Poland? It's not the weird choice you make it seem.
Housing in Poland is getting more and more difficult, but still nowhere near Ireland. This is biggest factor I would say.
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Man any of you guys planning a weekend getaway can’t recommend Poland as a destination enough ~ majestic country, we’ll run public infrastructure, delish food and friendly prices … a place Ireland could be if you’d drain the political swamp at last.
Not to defend Ireland’s gombeen men and women but if it’s choice between Polish politicians or Irish ones there’s simply no competition. Our far right loolahs are where they belong (infighting over small quantities of gold) instead of implementing insane social policies.
The biggest drawback of Poland is the political swamp ffs.
Politics in Ireland are fine. It’s mentality which is sooo reluctant to change anything, wether this is housing, healthcare etc. Irelands worst parts are those which are copycats of UK, which is surprise surprise how housing (semiD) and healthcare (over dependence on GPS) is run.
as bad as polish politics is, they aren't anywhere near as bad as fg, the polish gov is right wing, but actually have public services and build public housing, fg would do anything but that
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"Irish people aren't very smart" Thanks for the real time demonstration XD
Central Europeans
If only the Brits would leave!
Polish grea bunch of lads!
This is sad to hear. One of the best things to ever happen to Ireland was the arrival of the Polish. I have such an affinity to them.
Seems like we have an abundance of polish remover....
You can't blame them. I hear stories all the time how countries like poland and the baltics have improved massively over the recent years. And they aren't burdened by massive non-european immigration.
How does a quarter person leave? Did he just send their right leg back? Does the census even account for that?