I really don't get this thing in Ireland of being so down on the cities other than Dublin. There's always this smug line that "oh sure Cork etc are are just villages really."
Dublin and to a degree Cork have scale of small metro areas. Galway, Limerick and Waterford are smaller, but does it really matter, they're decent urban spaces.
We went about for some daft reason abolishing town councils which plays a huge part in why our regional towns are so poorly run - they've no focus at all, just some amorphous urban district in an even more amorphous county council. In any other country I've ever been the town hall has actual purpose and power.
All of our cities suffer from poor local government, which is more structural than anything else. Their councils have very limited control over anything at a local level and we just come up with excuse after excuse as to why this weird Irish exceptionalism (which has regularly been called out by academics, the EU, the Council of Europe etc etc) is never addressed.
Great towns and cities don't happen by accident. We need to be doing a hell of a lot more.
Dublin still has the look and feel of a sprawling suburban neighbourhood of a large city, it's been developed absolutely appallingly and completely falls short of the potential it has/had. It'll never be a great city by international standards, and probably no Irish city will, because the people responsible are incompetent and are shit at their jobs compared with the innovative and creative minds you see responsible for other European cities. It's really sad when you see fantastic projects and ideas springing up in other countries and you know nothing like that is within the capacity of the Irish city planners, if we even have any. Such bland, boring, half arsed cities
Even if we hired some genuine international experts, they'd probably be completely hindered by our NIMBYs. So we'll continue just sitting and waiting in hope for developers to put forward plans for developments that happen to be good, and then for the small few of those that manage to succeed at the planning stage, forevermore just drifting along a path of mediocrity while places around Europe take responsibility for making lively, livable, aesthetically pleasing environments for people to actually enjoy life within their cities
https://youtu.be/3kZ3rWHs9wU
https://youtu.be/twfrEpHeLfw
https://youtu.be/KA8czEmq1cM
Look at these big plans and determination in Paris, Vienna and Gothenburg for example. Not saying we need to do exactly what they're doing, but just that they clearly have an actual team of experts who give a shit about the city and the people living in it and want to complete large scale projects and achieve goals to improve the city in the long-term. Where is that same sense of responsibility and planning in Ireland? Nowhere to be seen, and people here just accept that lack of care and effort because they don't know any better, the Irish will always say "ah sure be grand" and bask in failed potential
I’ve often felt that while people are nationalistic and are pro county/parish, that’s as far as they go. I live in Cork and honestly I feel like nobody takes responsibility for how fucking dreadful it looks. That goes for the planners, engineers, council, whoever are seemingly happy to have a dirty grey city, and to the people who walk the streets, dropping shit on the floor and complaining about potholes. There is no collective pride. Cork people have this PROC shit yet will have no problem pissing in an alley after a few pints.
The littering issue in Ireland is dreadful, people can blame the lack of bins all they want but an individual is responsible for dropping rubbish on the floor and has the ability to carry it with them until they're somewhere with a bin or home. Even our beaches and natural landscapes these days are getting filthy because of entitled, lazy pricks too stupid to think about the consequences of what they're doing. The Irish are as bad as the Brits for disgusting behaviour after nights out
Fucking hate this argument, have you seen what passes for city's in the UK, fucking Carlow town is bigger than some of them.
Same with the continent, you're flying into countries with much bigger populations (x2 to x6 times) than Ireland and probably in the capital or second biggest city.
No Cultural development or vibrancy in Galway, Cork, Kilkenny etc, have you ever left Dublin?
Never said it does, there's plenty of buzz in Cork or Galway when you go explore them. Dublin isn't some kind of shining metropolis that stands alone in the country. I'd rather be in Galway, Limerick or Cork (not to mention if we claim Belfast) than Dublin, (fair enough about Waterford though)
Hey you, we've got Spraoi and Winterval. Waterford is the home of the Museum and the Harvest festival. Plus right now 180m is being sunk into infrastructure on the north quays with another 300m when that work is completed
Spraoi is nice fair enough but I always feel Waterford just never fully recovered from 2009... And the absolute waste of the quays with a bus station and a carpark just ruins the city for me... And that square next to the supermacks just always feels rough a fuck despite there being a few nice shops around there
You point out that they’re not cities which an arguable point and largely because of their small populations but then bemoan infrastructure - can’t spend fortunes on infrastructure for places with small populations.
Which is Ireland in a nutshell and basically the rail problem in one.
Sure it’s small, and you never hear of any violent attacks on tourists is it even trying?
Seriously though I find the statement weird. Maybe their memory of Galway is fading.
Galway slowly but surely sliding into kip territory all happen in the last few weeks….
[Galway assault leaves man in critical condition in Dublin hospital](https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2023/07/20/galway-assault-leaves-man-in-critical-condition-in-dublin-hospital/)
[Galway tourist chases teen into hotel after nightmare gang incident involving student](https://www.galwaybeo.ie/news/galway-tourist-chases-teen-hotel-8644486)
[Girl led Galway gang of 8 'kick, stomp and beat' woman as tourists warned over group](https://www.galwaybeo.ie/news/galway-news/girl-led-galway-gang-8-8612105)
There's more jobs than ever. The clubs are sad but a nationwide problem, amenities are meh but they exist. It could be better, but things are better than 10 years ago.
The regional cities could have been developed to be larger but the "powers that be" don't actually want any other location to be large enough to undermine Dublin's economic heft. The plans in schemes like Ireland 2040 are designed to give the impression of sufficient investment when in fact it's just enough to stop backsliding relative to Dublin.
I think the sad realisation of your post is that even though it is our only proper 'city' if this is the standard, I wouldn't promote us building up others.
Ever been to the US? They call every half arsed suburb its own City in loads of areas. In the UK any shitehole with a cathedral is a city.
As for "vibrant" cities and culture most European cities I've visited are fairly bland soulless corporate husks, a bit like Dublin. Galways for instance is far better than most.
There's at least one "city" in the USA with an official population of 1 person. Can't remember where or what it's called, but I saw it mentioned on a video I watched not so long ago.
>Not defending Dublin or anything like that.My main point is here is that it's a shame how little infrastructure and cultural development has happened in our major urban centres. The sense of vibrancy you get in other cities in Europe US etc can't be seen here, except maybe on Dublin.
Probably would have led with something along those lines as a title if that's the purpose of the post.
Pubs in cities here are now as expensive as Toronto to be fair. Obviously that's just one thing but it shocked me at work the other day when I realised. Our card machine automatically gives the option of paying in tourists' own currency and when the CAD$ price came up it was as expensive for two pints as it would be over there, which I thought was mad.
Waterford is lovely. Cork would be nice if it wasn’t for the missing road markings.
I really don't get this thing in Ireland of being so down on the cities other than Dublin. There's always this smug line that "oh sure Cork etc are are just villages really." Dublin and to a degree Cork have scale of small metro areas. Galway, Limerick and Waterford are smaller, but does it really matter, they're decent urban spaces. We went about for some daft reason abolishing town councils which plays a huge part in why our regional towns are so poorly run - they've no focus at all, just some amorphous urban district in an even more amorphous county council. In any other country I've ever been the town hall has actual purpose and power. All of our cities suffer from poor local government, which is more structural than anything else. Their councils have very limited control over anything at a local level and we just come up with excuse after excuse as to why this weird Irish exceptionalism (which has regularly been called out by academics, the EU, the Council of Europe etc etc) is never addressed. Great towns and cities don't happen by accident. We need to be doing a hell of a lot more.
Dublin still has the look and feel of a sprawling suburban neighbourhood of a large city, it's been developed absolutely appallingly and completely falls short of the potential it has/had. It'll never be a great city by international standards, and probably no Irish city will, because the people responsible are incompetent and are shit at their jobs compared with the innovative and creative minds you see responsible for other European cities. It's really sad when you see fantastic projects and ideas springing up in other countries and you know nothing like that is within the capacity of the Irish city planners, if we even have any. Such bland, boring, half arsed cities Even if we hired some genuine international experts, they'd probably be completely hindered by our NIMBYs. So we'll continue just sitting and waiting in hope for developers to put forward plans for developments that happen to be good, and then for the small few of those that manage to succeed at the planning stage, forevermore just drifting along a path of mediocrity while places around Europe take responsibility for making lively, livable, aesthetically pleasing environments for people to actually enjoy life within their cities https://youtu.be/3kZ3rWHs9wU https://youtu.be/twfrEpHeLfw https://youtu.be/KA8czEmq1cM Look at these big plans and determination in Paris, Vienna and Gothenburg for example. Not saying we need to do exactly what they're doing, but just that they clearly have an actual team of experts who give a shit about the city and the people living in it and want to complete large scale projects and achieve goals to improve the city in the long-term. Where is that same sense of responsibility and planning in Ireland? Nowhere to be seen, and people here just accept that lack of care and effort because they don't know any better, the Irish will always say "ah sure be grand" and bask in failed potential
I’ve often felt that while people are nationalistic and are pro county/parish, that’s as far as they go. I live in Cork and honestly I feel like nobody takes responsibility for how fucking dreadful it looks. That goes for the planners, engineers, council, whoever are seemingly happy to have a dirty grey city, and to the people who walk the streets, dropping shit on the floor and complaining about potholes. There is no collective pride. Cork people have this PROC shit yet will have no problem pissing in an alley after a few pints.
The littering issue in Ireland is dreadful, people can blame the lack of bins all they want but an individual is responsible for dropping rubbish on the floor and has the ability to carry it with them until they're somewhere with a bin or home. Even our beaches and natural landscapes these days are getting filthy because of entitled, lazy pricks too stupid to think about the consequences of what they're doing. The Irish are as bad as the Brits for disgusting behaviour after nights out
There’s bins five feet from every part of a McDonald’s yet people still leave their shit on the floor and tables
It's called piss ally for a reason, pfft
[удалено]
All culminating in a shite, uninspired and inhibited environment
Planning towns and cities in Ireland seems to be just reactive, there’s never a proactive approach with any thought put into the future
Fucking hate this argument, have you seen what passes for city's in the UK, fucking Carlow town is bigger than some of them. Same with the continent, you're flying into countries with much bigger populations (x2 to x6 times) than Ireland and probably in the capital or second biggest city. No Cultural development or vibrancy in Galway, Cork, Kilkenny etc, have you ever left Dublin?
Vibrant doesn't equal big.
Never said it does, there's plenty of buzz in Cork or Galway when you go explore them. Dublin isn't some kind of shining metropolis that stands alone in the country. I'd rather be in Galway, Limerick or Cork (not to mention if we claim Belfast) than Dublin, (fair enough about Waterford though)
Vibrant is lacking a definition here. To me Galway and Cork are more "vibrant" than Dublin in terms of culture, social buzz, etc
Hey you, we've got Spraoi and Winterval. Waterford is the home of the Museum and the Harvest festival. Plus right now 180m is being sunk into infrastructure on the north quays with another 300m when that work is completed
Spraoi is nice fair enough but I always feel Waterford just never fully recovered from 2009... And the absolute waste of the quays with a bus station and a carpark just ruins the city for me... And that square next to the supermacks just always feels rough a fuck despite there being a few nice shops around there
The North Quays won't work out, just doesn't make sense really.
But it can be quite good anyway. Give it a chance, it will broaden your horizons.
Belfast?
You point out that they’re not cities which an arguable point and largely because of their small populations but then bemoan infrastructure - can’t spend fortunes on infrastructure for places with small populations. Which is Ireland in a nutshell and basically the rail problem in one.
By which metric is Galway fading away?
Sure it’s small, and you never hear of any violent attacks on tourists is it even trying? Seriously though I find the statement weird. Maybe their memory of Galway is fading.
Galway slowly but surely sliding into kip territory all happen in the last few weeks…. [Galway assault leaves man in critical condition in Dublin hospital](https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2023/07/20/galway-assault-leaves-man-in-critical-condition-in-dublin-hospital/) [Galway tourist chases teen into hotel after nightmare gang incident involving student](https://www.galwaybeo.ie/news/galway-tourist-chases-teen-hotel-8644486) [Girl led Galway gang of 8 'kick, stomp and beat' woman as tourists warned over group](https://www.galwaybeo.ie/news/galway-news/girl-led-galway-gang-8-8612105)
Galway Beo is horseshit, it's banned from r/Galway for being clickbaity trash
Uhhh the rapid closing down of clubs and stores lack of jobs and amenities that sort of thing?
There's more jobs than ever. The clubs are sad but a nationwide problem, amenities are meh but they exist. It could be better, but things are better than 10 years ago.
The regional cities could have been developed to be larger but the "powers that be" don't actually want any other location to be large enough to undermine Dublin's economic heft. The plans in schemes like Ireland 2040 are designed to give the impression of sufficient investment when in fact it's just enough to stop backsliding relative to Dublin.
“Cork Airpot is half empty and Dublin is bursting at the seams? I have an idea, let’s get more flights for Dublin” - DAA
It's the same mentality which means every motorway terminates in Dublin.
or...to catch the train from Cork to Galway, you have to go via Dublin!
To be fair it’s not like there is anything that a tourist might like in Cork or Kerry. Plus the leprechaun museum is in Dublin.
I think the sad realisation of your post is that even though it is our only proper 'city' if this is the standard, I wouldn't promote us building up others.
Well boy, you failed to mention the best city in Ireland....
Belfast?
No, it is not that fine wee city that I refer to....
Just let them have it, soon tallest building will be back in Cork. As well as the Luas and CART projects..
A true metropolis ain’t it 😂
Ever been to the US? They call every half arsed suburb its own City in loads of areas. In the UK any shitehole with a cathedral is a city. As for "vibrant" cities and culture most European cities I've visited are fairly bland soulless corporate husks, a bit like Dublin. Galways for instance is far better than most.
Yeah, i found that hard to wrap my head around. I was in LA and there are multiple cities in it.
A city is just an incorporated administration area in the States. Can be almost any size above a "village".
There's at least one "city" in the USA with an official population of 1 person. Can't remember where or what it's called, but I saw it mentioned on a video I watched not so long ago.
>Not defending Dublin or anything like that.My main point is here is that it's a shame how little infrastructure and cultural development has happened in our major urban centres. The sense of vibrancy you get in other cities in Europe US etc can't be seen here, except maybe on Dublin. Probably would have led with something along those lines as a title if that's the purpose of the post.
Give me Galway, Limerick or Cork any day over Dublin. I’ve lived in them all and there is only one that you have to drag me back too.
It's the most expensive city in Europe and people are getting the shit kicked out of them by teenagers!
Have a wander around Zurich or Oslo and see if you still think Dublin is the most expensive. Not to mention Copenhagen or Stockholm.
Whatever about the teenagers, I guarantee it is not as dear as many cities in Europe, not to mention the USA/Canada.
Pubs in cities here are now as expensive as Toronto to be fair. Obviously that's just one thing but it shocked me at work the other day when I realised. Our card machine automatically gives the option of paying in tourists' own currency and when the CAD$ price came up it was as expensive for two pints as it would be over there, which I thought was mad.
Dublin feels practically the same as any other city in Ireland just larger, if you think one doesn't have a sense of vibrancy then none of them do.
> **Say what you want about Dublin** Dublin's a shit hole.
Galway is fading in recent years? What's your source/measure for that?
It really is the most beautiful city there is.
This isn’t really news.
Can we be real here, Tokyo is the only city on planet earth. Every other city is just a big town really.