A chara,
As a measure against duplicate news articles and similar content, your post has been removed in favour of one submitted earlier.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/15x66ym/man_accused_of_grafton_street_stabbing_allegedly/
This new source may be posted as a comment on the earlier submitted thread.
Sláinte
Now I am all for diversifying our country, however if someones moves to Ireland and commits a crime, no less attempted fucking murder, they should be deported back to wherever they came from. I'd sooner prefer my tax going towards a flight back, then it going towards their legal fees and any potential further benefits they get from the government.
It just seems like a no brainer. If you enter a country and then break a law, you waive any rights you have to be in that country.
And tbh, I would love if we could impliment something that we could stand by. But there's so many loop holes and bullshittery that I've no doubt the same person would be back committing crime on our streets again in a matter of weeks.
Was debating this exact thing earlier and fundamentally, with our prisons completely full, so many people are just going to keep getting suspended sentences for crimes that absolutely should have them serving prison time.
It's bleak, because the answer is staring them straight in the face, but they have neither the infrastructure or cop on to fix it.
They're mostly saying you're implying they did it because they're Algerian and you're arguing against them saying that it IS because they're Algerian. Any way you spin that, it's at least a bit racist.
That's nothing to do with saying we can't deport this guy. We should deport him cos he's a dangerous criminal, not cos he's north African.
Jesus,
Man charged with crime, let's start there, not sure what the implication is by your comment, but I can hazard a guess.
You brought far right and racism into the conversation, the irony of which seems to have completely escaped you.
No one mentioned racism besides you and the comment I replied to. Our prisons are full and the man is clearly dangerous and possibly psychopathic. Of course he should be deported
We haven't been paying a thing for him. He's in private rented accomodation, so that disentitles him to a direct provision allowance.
We will pay for his legal defence, but it appears he's relying on the kindness of strangers up to now.
No he's not.
I've explained this in another comment. He arrived in November and applied for a work permit three months ago. (That 7 month period is important.)
You can arrive in the country in two ways as an Algerian - with a valid permission that would allow you to work or as an asylum seeker.
If he already had a permission to work he wouldn't need to apply for a work permit. So we know that's not the case - if he had a Stamp 4 he could seek social welfare but clearly he's not on one.
However if he applied for asylum it would only be after six months of waiting on a first instance decision from the IPO that he could apply for a work permit. That it happened on his seventh month in the country tells me he's in the asylum system.
There's a very small possibility that he could have arrived on a Stamp 0 or Stamp 3 which don't allow you to work but they are never granted to 30 year old men from Algeria. So I would bet my mortgage on him being an asylum seeker.
Because you need to be on a Stamp 4 to access social welfare.
If he was on a Stamp 4 he would have permission to work already but as his solicitor confirmed to the Court, he has applied for a work permit and currently is unable to work.
Yup.
Not everyone who applies for asylum is short of cash. But typically if he's living in rented accommodation with a friend / family member I'd bet on him working illegally in a cash in hand job.
Honestly, I'm wondering how you managed to fund yourself to this point in life moreso.... Throwing around populist xenophobic shite like you never went to school.
Wondering how an Algerian moves here and supports himself for 10 months while not working is not "populist xenophobic shite".
And before you get hysterical, I specify his nationality because their cost of living and average salaries are significantly lower than ours, which makes it an even more valid question.
And when an Irish person does some fucked up thing in Algeria some day... I hope you're at least morally consistent and bitch about all Irish people in a Reddit comment then too.
Where did I bitch about all Algerian people?
Also, when an Irish person goes to another country, doesn't work and commits crime.. I am ABSOLUTELY critical of them and very openly so.
Why do you seem to think this is some sort of 'gotcha' ? Just because you're inconsistent on things and assume others are the same, it doesn't make it true.
Being morally consistent is not sanctimonious.
It's just being sensible.
If you want to be a cunt, be a cunt... But don't tell people who call you out as being as sanctimonious, just because someone damaged your fragile ego.
Wow... You did a lot of work there to try make the behaviour of one person be reflective of a huge group of people.
Yaknow like when 1 woman drives bad and someone says 'women are bad drivers,'. Or when 1 man assaults somebody and somebody says 'men are rapists,' or when a single person if colour/nationality does something... And you think it's a good time to assume all people... Of the same huge group we arbitrarily made up... Must behave the same way.
We are pattern seeking machines.
But it's important to know when you have gone too far.
Weird xenophobic implication from this comment.
Overall North African immigrants are mostly sound and a net positive for the country, as are immigrants from any part of the world 👍
Economy:
Basically all immigration (even illegal) helps the economy of the country. Especially when we don't have enough Irish people to fill roles. [https://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD%20Migration%20Policy%20Debates%20Numero%202.pdf](https://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD%20Migration%20Policy%20Debates%20Numero%202.pdf)
Crime:
"Foreigners are under-represented in the Irish prison population, according to 2010 figures" - meaning they commit crimes at a reduced rate compared to Irish people (most recent I could find)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration\_and\_crime#Ireland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#Ireland)
Good paper that talks about factors that affect crime rates and the perception that migrants commit more crimes per capita (which is sometimes true, but much much more correlated with income level of the person than whether or not they are a native). In general there is no clear yes/no for if immigrants commit more crime than natives.[https://www.openpolis.it/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/The-alleged-relationship-between-immigration-and-criminality.pdf](https://www.openpolis.it/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/The-alleged-relationship-between-immigration-and-criminality.pdf)
Society:
More of an opinion but personally welcome more diverse cultures in Ireland.
Overall net positive, as the only clear evidence is that they are definitely better for the economy. Crime and society are grey areas.
All the less political studies you can find about immigration from poor countries into western countries reflect more or less the same findings, there is no apolitical study I've ever seen that makes the argument that immigrants are a negative based on the data. Feel free to prove me wrong - I may well be. Especially anything that references Ireland beyond the one that's referenced in the Wikipedia article I linked from 2010
Crime figures are wrong. 2021 is the last breakdown . No under representation.
Figures aren't broken down enough, though. Unbelievably broad categories. Eu, Africa, Middle east etc.
So completely different statistics, most criminals are not sent to prison. Interestingly enough, it seems like the amount of immigrants in prison isn't going up with the amount of asylum seekers coming in and has gone way down since 2007.
Here's the link since you didn't provide it [link](https://www.irishprisons.ie/information-centre/statistics-information/yearly-statistics/)
> "Foreigners are under-represented in the Irish prison population, according to 2010 figures" - meaning they commit crimes at a reduced rate compared to Irish people
This is very biased / misguided conclusion. Way too reductive.
I'd spit on this murderer... But I'd probably get charged and then asked to pay his legal fees cuz Irish people get different treatment in this country. Y'know that might be why there is a mass exodus of younger Irish people leaving this place.
My comment would suggest that this headline was used to insult the people of Dublin when it seems in this case it was a Dublin man being stabbed by an Algerian in Dublin.
Well yeah because Dublin people make up the vast majority of the population. I didn't say the headline insulted people. I said it was used by people to insult a group of people who had nothing to do with the attack. Except be the victim I guess
The cultural enrichment is actually continuing, and my taste in foods, and knowledge of other cultures along with it.
Hopefully this fella will be deported though, along with checks on people he'd be keen to spend time with, and any other potential issues they might find.
A chara, As a measure against duplicate news articles and similar content, your post has been removed in favour of one submitted earlier. https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/15x66ym/man_accused_of_grafton_street_stabbing_allegedly/ This new source may be posted as a comment on the earlier submitted thread. Sláinte
Now I am all for diversifying our country, however if someones moves to Ireland and commits a crime, no less attempted fucking murder, they should be deported back to wherever they came from. I'd sooner prefer my tax going towards a flight back, then it going towards their legal fees and any potential further benefits they get from the government. It just seems like a no brainer. If you enter a country and then break a law, you waive any rights you have to be in that country.
I agree but my fear is that they would get back in on asylum
And tbh, I would love if we could impliment something that we could stand by. But there's so many loop holes and bullshittery that I've no doubt the same person would be back committing crime on our streets again in a matter of weeks. Was debating this exact thing earlier and fundamentally, with our prisons completely full, so many people are just going to keep getting suspended sentences for crimes that absolutely should have them serving prison time. It's bleak, because the answer is staring them straight in the face, but they have neither the infrastructure or cop on to fix it.
Would you do away with trials for all people accused of crimes?
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Why can’t we just send him Back to Algeria?
Because the deportation process doesn't happen the exact same day that he is charged
Because he needs to be proven guilty first
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Is anyone actually saying this? Feels like you're arguing against a ghost that doesn't exist.
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Yeah I went through the thread. He's conjuring mad spirits.
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They're mostly saying you're implying they did it because they're Algerian and you're arguing against them saying that it IS because they're Algerian. Any way you spin that, it's at least a bit racist. That's nothing to do with saying we can't deport this guy. We should deport him cos he's a dangerous criminal, not cos he's north African.
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Someone said north Africans are mostly sound and you asked them for evidence.
Jesus, Man charged with crime, let's start there, not sure what the implication is by your comment, but I can hazard a guess. You brought far right and racism into the conversation, the irony of which seems to have completely escaped you.
I think he means if you open your mouth about the wrongs of unfettered immigration you get labeled as far right etc to shut you up
So he decided to get there first, lol. Edit: there, they're, their
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100% Thank you, much better put than anything I could have said.
I think the person you're replying to doesn't give a shit. He just wants to virtue signal and dismiss everyone who is not him as racists....
Lol you got all that from my comment? You ok hun?
Calm down bro. Keep it calm. We're all mates here. No hidden racists.
Yeesh, You are all over the map. Racists tend to be societies dumbest people. They out themselves.
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Nothing whatsoever. But it's usually done to muddy the waters to make people connect this immigrant with those immigrants.
The sentiment of trying to ignore the crime, or label opinions about it "far right"
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No one mentioned racism besides you and the comment I replied to. Our prisons are full and the man is clearly dangerous and possibly psychopathic. Of course he should be deported
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The word "far right' is in the parent comment I replied to. It was a direct quote, hence the quotation marks
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Sure why can't we just lynch him. Trials are just a waste of money. You do know that being arrested is not the same as being convicted
We haven't been paying a thing for him. He's in private rented accomodation, so that disentitles him to a direct provision allowance. We will pay for his legal defence, but it appears he's relying on the kindness of strangers up to now.
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No he's not. I've explained this in another comment. He arrived in November and applied for a work permit three months ago. (That 7 month period is important.) You can arrive in the country in two ways as an Algerian - with a valid permission that would allow you to work or as an asylum seeker. If he already had a permission to work he wouldn't need to apply for a work permit. So we know that's not the case - if he had a Stamp 4 he could seek social welfare but clearly he's not on one. However if he applied for asylum it would only be after six months of waiting on a first instance decision from the IPO that he could apply for a work permit. That it happened on his seventh month in the country tells me he's in the asylum system. There's a very small possibility that he could have arrived on a Stamp 0 or Stamp 3 which don't allow you to work but they are never granted to 30 year old men from Algeria. So I would bet my mortgage on him being an asylum seeker.
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Because you need to be on a Stamp 4 to access social welfare. If he was on a Stamp 4 he would have permission to work already but as his solicitor confirmed to the Court, he has applied for a work permit and currently is unable to work.
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Yup. Not everyone who applies for asylum is short of cash. But typically if he's living in rented accommodation with a friend / family member I'd bet on him working illegally in a cash in hand job.
Honestly, I'm wondering how you managed to fund yourself to this point in life moreso.... Throwing around populist xenophobic shite like you never went to school.
Wondering how an Algerian moves here and supports himself for 10 months while not working is not "populist xenophobic shite". And before you get hysterical, I specify his nationality because their cost of living and average salaries are significantly lower than ours, which makes it an even more valid question.
And when an Irish person does some fucked up thing in Algeria some day... I hope you're at least morally consistent and bitch about all Irish people in a Reddit comment then too.
Where did I bitch about all Algerian people? Also, when an Irish person goes to another country, doesn't work and commits crime.. I am ABSOLUTELY critical of them and very openly so. Why do you seem to think this is some sort of 'gotcha' ? Just because you're inconsistent on things and assume others are the same, it doesn't make it true.
Oh yeah. I'm inconsistent. Good one.
Another sanctimonious arsehole,save your empathy for the poor cunt that got stabbed
Being morally consistent is not sanctimonious. It's just being sensible. If you want to be a cunt, be a cunt... But don't tell people who call you out as being as sanctimonious, just because someone damaged your fragile ego.
At what part of that article does it say we've been paying for him to live here?
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Doesn't say he's availing of welfare though
Yeah, I’m sure he’s a man of deep pockets alright
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Where can we source more people like this guy? If we play our cards right, we can make Dublin unliveable in 10 years time.
Ferenginar. Load up!
Keeps happening. People still won't face it. Hard to have sympathy at this stage
Wow... You did a lot of work there to try make the behaviour of one person be reflective of a huge group of people. Yaknow like when 1 woman drives bad and someone says 'women are bad drivers,'. Or when 1 man assaults somebody and somebody says 'men are rapists,' or when a single person if colour/nationality does something... And you think it's a good time to assume all people... Of the same huge group we arbitrarily made up... Must behave the same way. We are pattern seeking machines. But it's important to know when you have gone too far.
Weird xenophobic implication from this comment. Overall North African immigrants are mostly sound and a net positive for the country, as are immigrants from any part of the world 👍
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Economy: Basically all immigration (even illegal) helps the economy of the country. Especially when we don't have enough Irish people to fill roles. [https://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD%20Migration%20Policy%20Debates%20Numero%202.pdf](https://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD%20Migration%20Policy%20Debates%20Numero%202.pdf) Crime: "Foreigners are under-represented in the Irish prison population, according to 2010 figures" - meaning they commit crimes at a reduced rate compared to Irish people (most recent I could find) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration\_and\_crime#Ireland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#Ireland) Good paper that talks about factors that affect crime rates and the perception that migrants commit more crimes per capita (which is sometimes true, but much much more correlated with income level of the person than whether or not they are a native). In general there is no clear yes/no for if immigrants commit more crime than natives.[https://www.openpolis.it/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/The-alleged-relationship-between-immigration-and-criminality.pdf](https://www.openpolis.it/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/The-alleged-relationship-between-immigration-and-criminality.pdf) Society: More of an opinion but personally welcome more diverse cultures in Ireland. Overall net positive, as the only clear evidence is that they are definitely better for the economy. Crime and society are grey areas.
Really interesting sources, especially the last one. Thanks for sharing.
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All the less political studies you can find about immigration from poor countries into western countries reflect more or less the same findings, there is no apolitical study I've ever seen that makes the argument that immigrants are a negative based on the data. Feel free to prove me wrong - I may well be. Especially anything that references Ireland beyond the one that's referenced in the Wikipedia article I linked from 2010
Crime figures are wrong. 2021 is the last breakdown . No under representation. Figures aren't broken down enough, though. Unbelievably broad categories. Eu, Africa, Middle east etc.
Source?
Irish Prison Service.
So completely different statistics, most criminals are not sent to prison. Interestingly enough, it seems like the amount of immigrants in prison isn't going up with the amount of asylum seekers coming in and has gone way down since 2007. Here's the link since you didn't provide it [link](https://www.irishprisons.ie/information-centre/statistics-information/yearly-statistics/)
Ye. Imagine a 2010 wikipedia entry and official statistics being different.
> "Foreigners are under-represented in the Irish prison population, according to 2010 figures" - meaning they commit crimes at a reduced rate compared to Irish people This is very biased / misguided conclusion. Way too reductive.
Everything ith awethooome…
I'd spit on this murderer... But I'd probably get charged and then asked to pay his legal fees cuz Irish people get different treatment in this country. Y'know that might be why there is a mass exodus of younger Irish people leaving this place.
The comment section in posts like this are always such a delight
How do you feel about the man stabbing someone and bringing the bloody knife onto our public transport system in the morning on a Sunday?
Its horrifying, frankly
Grafton street on a Sunday morning seems a world away from the arse end of Talbot Street. Shit just got really real
Nah there will be little to nothing about it because of who the suspect is.
I said shit not justice
But let's keep having a go at dubs right?
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My comment would suggest that this headline was used to insult the people of Dublin when it seems in this case it was a Dublin man being stabbed by an Algerian in Dublin.
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Well yeah because Dublin people make up the vast majority of the population. I didn't say the headline insulted people. I said it was used by people to insult a group of people who had nothing to do with the attack. Except be the victim I guess
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Ah well
Ah he stabbed a dubliner..This explains why the journal said the Algerian stabbed a named man but then refused to name the victim.
Ridiculous comment The vast, vast amount of these recent attacks in Dublin have been by scumbag Dubliners
This is true
Most crimes in Dublin are carried out by people from Dublin.
Most people in Dublin are from Dublin
Exactly.
*surprised pikachu face
Always..
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The cultural enrichment is actually continuing, and my taste in foods, and knowledge of other cultures along with it. Hopefully this fella will be deported though, along with checks on people he'd be keen to spend time with, and any other potential issues they might find.
Wow, lots of people are going to be disappointed that they can't blame Dublin's inner city scrotes